Guild Wars 2

Fixing the thread with this comment.

As far as the iWarlock goes, surprisingly enough you actually have sorta the right idea with it, but not quite accurate. So I’ll sometimes use staff, but only in situations where the mobs have enough conditions that the horrible autoattack damage is outweighed by the crazy dps of the phantasm. Unfortunately, a Mesmer alone is unable to do that kind of condition load. If you have an engineer in the team though, your mobs will likely have upwards of 7 conditions at all times, and that makes the warlock hit like a truck.

In other cases though, the staff is simply worse.

korelg.7862:

I see all this talk about how GS #1 is so bad, but you guys are not considering that keeping your distance keeps you alive (in some boss fights/most world bosses)

Alive DPS > Dead DPS

If you ask me, the best set you could carry for dungeons is GS + Sword/* just keep swaping pistol/focus acording to the situation, but having a GS is always good, also staff is great for soloing subject alpha from COE

Open world pve is an entirely different situation, and greatsword is a good long range aoe tagging weapon for open world.

Staff is absolutely necessary for soloing subject alpha, yes. However, I’m going to go out on a limb here and say that op will not be soloing subject alpha any time in the near future.

As for dungeons, there are very few situations where range is necessary. The molten facility boss fight is one of the only things that comes to mind, and possibly the jade maw fight. In all other cases, you can use the mechanics available to you to effectively protect yourself at melee range and complete content significantly faster and safer.

Paul Kay.4891:

I do not doubt and I really appreciate the expertise of You both. I’m just on the verge of totally abandoning this class; playing around reflects, stealth and zones is just not what I intended this character to be about :/

So uh, you should probably just drop Mesmer right now. This entire class is about deception, reflects, stealth, misdirection, trickery. You sound like you might like a warrior instead, they’re nice and boring and straightforward for you.

Paul Kay.4891:

Let’s say I enjoy ranged play more than melee play, even though I’m positive it’s lesser damage than melee sword. Sadly Arenanet didn’t heed Mesmer’s call for a main-hand pistol(yet?), would run that so much if that were possible =p

Well, this means you should probably go play ele, because their highest dps is available with staff. You’ll probably refuse to use conjured weapons and fail that too, but it’s worth a try.

Paul Kay.4891:

I’d rather take it like a man than play around with reflects which isn’t Feedback, even if it would take a while longer.

Yeah, I find it adorable that you’re playing Mesmer and talking about ‘taking it like a man’. You’re barking so far up the wrong tree that it’s not even funny anymore. As I mentioned before, Mesmer is a class that doesn’t ‘take it like a man’. We have so many ways to avoid taking it like a man’ because that is the entire design concept of the class. You honestly should just stop.

Well how about you take it as a man and stay right in the face of bosses instead of max range?
In the end you want to play your bad build. So do it. What’s the problem? The only way to improve it is by replacing it with a sword one. You’re not forced to run offhand focus. You can use pistol/sword for higher dps at the cost of a lot of reflect you seem to refuse to use despite the fact that it’s the major selling point of mesmers.
If you are against using sword then, as people said a bunch of times, you can’t expect to contribute. Or have a good build.
tl;dr Your thread’s subject is “Viable way of going Gsword + Staff, PvE?”. I’ll assume it’s a question. The answer is “No.”

As for dungeons, there are very few situations where range is necessary. The molten facility boss fight is one of the only things that comes to mind, and possibly the jade maw fight. In all other cases, you can use the mechanics available to you to effectively protect yourself at melee range and complete content significantly faster and safer.

You basically just full melee the berserker and chain reflects so the firestorm doesn’t touch you. Jade maw… well the colossi have projectile reflection and are weak and the tentacles are so easy to dodge they’re not even worth ranging.

So uh, you should probably just drop Mesmer right now. This entire class is about deception, reflects, stealth, misdirection, trickery. You sound like you might like a warrior instead, they’re nice and boring and straightforward for you.

I agree, me learning to solo Lupicus on warrior was boring and straightforward. Any old casual can train themselves to dodge inside a boss with one-shot mechanics for extra damage (reckless dodge) to shave seconds off their times, to use burst skills to make distance and restore endurance correctly, to make use of a weapon block correctly to either block projectiles at a distance or to block in direct melee to cause bleeds and proc a 10% damage modifier in their traiting and generally to make careful use of dodges for maximum melee uptime and preservation of scholar runes.

It was all just boring and straightforward.

I’m sure your average joe can pull it off nice and easy.

Of course not. Learning Lupicus enabled me to learn the intricacies of my class and build, and I find mesmer tedious so I don’t play it much anymore, but I’m not going to smacktalk the class.

Such pyroatheist in this thread. Wow. It’s blunt, but he really does have the most accurate comments.

I’ll be a little more generous. If you’re running with a party that actually knows what they’re doing (all melee, all meta builds), a GS+staff mesmer build is 100% dead weight and the rest of the team is just 4-manning the dungeon. If you’re running with typical PUGs (shout heal rifle warriors, AH cleric guardians, etc.) you’ll be doing alright because everyone will be bad. If you’re fine with that, go for it.

Pyroatheist.9031:

So uh, you should probably just drop Mesmer right now. This entire class is about deception, reflects, stealth, misdirection, trickery. You sound like you might like a warrior instead, they’re nice and boring and straightforward for you.

Paul Kay.4891:

Let’s say I enjoy ranged play more than melee play, even though I’m positive it’s lesser damage than melee sword. Sadly Arenanet didn’t heed Mesmer’s call for a main-hand pistol(yet?), would run that so much if that were possible =p

Well, this means you should probably go play ele, because their highest dps is available with staff. You’ll probably refuse to use conjured weapons and fail that too, but it’s worth a try.

Paul Kay.4891:

I’d rather take it like a man than play around with reflects which isn’t Feedback, even if it would take a while longer.

Yeah, I find it adorable that you’re playing Mesmer and talking about ‘taking it like a man’. You’re barking so far up the wrong tree that it’s not even funny anymore. As I mentioned before, Mesmer is a class that doesn’t ‘take it like a man’. We have so many ways to avoid taking it like a man’ because that is the entire design concept of the class. You honestly should just stop.

I never said I don’t like deception and misidirection, I just preferred to do it via illusions, not by barriers and zones.

Eles are fine but are not able misdirect aggro as well iirc. And yes, not a fan of conjured weapons.

Probably the closest would be a minion master/life stealing Necromancer that provides support and dps from mid-range.

I’m sorry if I sound stubborn or misidirected, I’m just not fond of doing what everyone else does just because it’s “considered” best.

Guess I’ll just play my way until I hit a wall and don’t feel my build works anymore then either reroll or poke at it and modify it until it works =]

I’ll dig around a Warlock/phantasm’ish build and see how it works out for me =]

maxinion.8396:

Such pyroatheist in this thread. Wow. It’s blunt, but he really does have the most accurate comments.

I’ll be a little more generous. If you’re running with a party that actually knows what they’re doing (all melee, all meta builds), a GS+staff mesmer build is 100% dead weight and the rest of the team is just 4-manning the dungeon. If you’re running with typical PUGs (shout heal rifle warriors, AH cleric guardians, etc.) you’ll be doing alright because everyone will be bad. If you’re fine with that, go for it.

Perhaps I belong to pugs, sounds like I’ll enjoy company of people who just want to have fun and not mechanical efficiency:p

Paul Kay.4891:

maxinion.8396:

Such pyroatheist in this thread. Wow. It’s blunt, but he really does have the most accurate comments.

I’ll be a little more generous. If you’re running with a party that actually knows what they’re doing (all melee, all meta builds), a GS+staff mesmer build is 100% dead weight and the rest of the team is just 4-manning the dungeon. If you’re running with typical PUGs (shout heal rifle warriors, AH cleric guardians, etc.) you’ll be doing alright because everyone will be bad. If you’re fine with that, go for it.

Perhaps I belong to pugs, sounds like I’ll enjoy company of people who just want to have fun and not mechanical efficiency:p

Honestly that sounds best for you. Just make sure to join PUGs that say “anyone welcome,” and specifically avoid ones that say “speed clear” or “fast run” or “meta builds.” If you have a casual guild to play with, you’ll probably be equivalent to whatever builds (bearbows, etc.) they’ll be running as well.

The content is finishable with just about any build. If you’re happy with dealing 20-50% of the best damage possible, then you’re fine, but won’t fit into the meta-speedclear groups.

maxinion.8396:

Paul Kay.4891:

maxinion.8396:

Such pyroatheist in this thread. Wow. It’s blunt, but he really does have the most accurate comments.

I’ll be a little more generous. If you’re running with a party that actually knows what they’re doing (all melee, all meta builds), a GS+staff mesmer build is 100% dead weight and the rest of the team is just 4-manning the dungeon. If you’re running with typical PUGs (shout heal rifle warriors, AH cleric guardians, etc.) you’ll be doing alright because everyone will be bad. If you’re fine with that, go for it.

Perhaps I belong to pugs, sounds like I’ll enjoy company of people who just want to have fun and not mechanical efficiency:p

Honestly that sounds best for you. Just make sure to join PUGs that say “anyone welcome,” and specifically avoid ones that say “speed clear” or “fast run” or “meta builds.” If you have a casual guild to play with, you’ll probably be equivalent to whatever builds (bearbows, etc.) they’ll be running as well.

The content is finishable with just about any build. If you’re happy with dealing 20-50% of the best damage possible, then you’re fine, but won’t fit into the meta-speedclear groups.

Here’s what I have more or less right now(gear exotic and zerker atm though, it’s “planned” gear):
http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/mesmer/?4.2|6.5n.a1s.d1c.0.0|1.5n.a1s.d1c.0.0|5n.7m.5n.7m.5n.7m.5n.7m.5n.7m.5n.7m.d1c.d1c.d1c.d1d.d1c.d1c|41j.d1c.31j.0.3u.0.31j.d1c.3u.d1c.3u.d1c|k0a.f2.f4.0.k37|0.0|6q.3m.38.3l.3q|e

Bear in mind, 1.5 year gone and I’m still trying to figure out things

Feedback welcome :p

Paul Kay.4891:

maxinion.8396:

Paul Kay.4891:

maxinion.8396:

Such pyroatheist in this thread. Wow. It’s blunt, but he really does have the most accurate comments.

I’ll be a little more generous. If you’re running with a party that actually knows what they’re doing (all melee, all meta builds), a GS+staff mesmer build is 100% dead weight and the rest of the team is just 4-manning the dungeon. If you’re running with typical PUGs (shout heal rifle warriors, AH cleric guardians, etc.) you’ll be doing alright because everyone will be bad. If you’re fine with that, go for it.

Perhaps I belong to pugs, sounds like I’ll enjoy company of people who just want to have fun and not mechanical efficiency:p

Honestly that sounds best for you. Just make sure to join PUGs that say “anyone welcome,” and specifically avoid ones that say “speed clear” or “fast run” or “meta builds.” If you have a casual guild to play with, you’ll probably be equivalent to whatever builds (bearbows, etc.) they’ll be running as well.

The content is finishable with just about any build. If you’re happy with dealing 20-50% of the best damage possible, then you’re fine, but won’t fit into the meta-speedclear groups.

Here’s what I have more or less right now(gear exotic and zerker atm though, it’s “planned” gear):
http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/mesmer/?4.2|6.5n.a1s.d1c.0.0|1.5n.a1s.d1c.0.0|5n.7m.5n.7m.5n.7m.5n.7m.5n.7m.5n.7m.d1c.d1c.d1c.d1d.d1c.d1c|41j.d1c.31j.0.3u.0.31j.d1c.3u.d1c.3u.d1c|k0a.f2.f4.0.k37|0.0|6q.3m.38.3l.3q|e

Bear in mind, 1.5 year gone and I’m still trying to figure out things

Feedback welcome :p

Ok, so feedback on this build:

1) Dueling: why 15? The 15, which gives bleeds to your phants, is useless (it’s only good for warden and duelist, who hit with lots of small attacks and give lots of bleeds). Either drop it to 10, or take it to 20 and take Deceptive Evasion.
2) Domination: you don’t have a 10 skill selected— I guess you’re doing Empowered Illusions though?
3) Chaos: why points in this line? You don’t take enough for Chaotic Dampening, which is the only useful one for you here. Maybe reduce dueling to 10 and take chaos to 20. Keep in mind though that chaos adds toughness, a mostly useless stat in PvE, while dueling adds precision, which is actually useful.

Your gear atm is mostly Knight’s it seems like. You probably should change that to Zerker as you mentioned in your comments.

maxinion.8396:

Paul Kay.4891:

maxinion.8396:

Paul Kay.4891:

maxinion.8396:

Such pyroatheist in this thread. Wow. It’s blunt, but he really does have the most accurate comments.

I’ll be a little more generous. If you’re running with a party that actually knows what they’re doing (all melee, all meta builds), a GS+staff mesmer build is 100% dead weight and the rest of the team is just 4-manning the dungeon. If you’re running with typical PUGs (shout heal rifle warriors, AH cleric guardians, etc.) you’ll be doing alright because everyone will be bad. If you’re fine with that, go for it.

Perhaps I belong to pugs, sounds like I’ll enjoy company of people who just want to have fun and not mechanical efficiency:p

Honestly that sounds best for you. Just make sure to join PUGs that say “anyone welcome,” and specifically avoid ones that say “speed clear” or “fast run” or “meta builds.” If you have a casual guild to play with, you’ll probably be equivalent to whatever builds (bearbows, etc.) they’ll be running as well.

The content is finishable with just about any build. If you’re happy with dealing 20-50% of the best damage possible, then you’re fine, but won’t fit into the meta-speedclear groups.

Here’s what I have more or less right now(gear exotic and zerker atm though, it’s “planned” gear):
http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/mesmer/?4.2|6.5n.a1s.d1c.0.0|1.5n.a1s.d1c.0.0|5n.7m.5n.7m.5n.7m.5n.7m.5n.7m.5n.7m.d1c.d1c.d1c.d1d.d1c.d1c|41j.d1c.31j.0.3u.0.31j.d1c.3u.d1c.3u.d1c|k0a.f2.f4.0.k37|0.0|6q.3m.38.3l.3q|e

Bear in mind, 1.5 year gone and I’m still trying to figure out things

Feedback welcome :p

Ok, so feedback on this build:

1) Dueling: why 15? The 15, which gives bleeds to your phants, is useless (it’s only good for warden and duelist, who hit with lots of small attacks and give lots of bleeds). Either drop it to 10, or take it to 20 and take Deceptive Evasion.
2) Domination: you don’t have a 10 skill selected— I guess you’re doing Empowered Illusions though?
3) Chaos: why points in this line? You don’t take enough for Chaotic Dampening, which is the only useful one for you here. Maybe reduce dueling to 10 and take chaos to 20. Keep in mind though that chaos adds toughness, a mostly useless stat in PvE, while dueling adds precision, which is actually useful.

Your gear atm is mostly Knight’s it seems like. You probably should change that to Zerker as you mentioned in your comments.

1)Iirc Spatial surge is 3 instances of damage, Zerker is 4~ instances, Winds of Chaos is 2+ instances of damage. That’s insufficient?

2) Yes, my bad

3) The 15 allows me to have Protection that much more often on myself. I use chaos storm on myself and the enemy at the same time, I stay in short range so I can benefit from buffs from Chaos Armor/Chaos Storm which I ten pass on with my Boon. Then I pass off like 15+ might stacks from Mirrorblade on top of what bounced to my allies. Good for stacking, no?

I kinda want my illusions to tank and be able to take some hurt myself so I’ve been thinking of sacrificing Crit damage for either Vitality or/and Toughness. Not sure if that’s wise, but I feel insufficiently tanky as of now. Not sure if crit damage is that important. Hm. Also wondering if Illusions could benefit from Dolyak HP regen. Could be very potent defense.

Thank You! =D

I don’t see how you stacking toughness and vitality and hiding behind your illusions is “taking it like a man” whereas chaining reflects where even the slightest point of error causes you to be one-shotted isn’t.

I honestly don’t get this community.

Also:

1)Iirc Spatial surge is 3 instances of damage, Zerker is 4~ instances, Winds of Chaos is 2+ instances of damage. That’s insufficient?

Yes. duelist, 8 bleeds, warden, 12.

Then I pass off like 15+ might stacks from Mirrorblade on top of what bounced to my allies. Good for stacking, no?

No. Blasted fire fields are.

hendo.1940:

I don’t see how you stacking toughness and vitality and hiding behind your illusions is “taking it like a man” whereas chaining reflects where even the slightest point of error causes you to be one-shotted isn’t.

I honestly don’t get this community.

Also:

1)Iirc Spatial surge is 3 instances of damage, Zerker is 4~ instances, Winds of Chaos is 2+ instances of damage. That’s insufficient?

Yes. duelist, 8 bleeds, warden, 12.

Then I pass off like 15+ might stacks from Mirrorblade on top of what bounced to my allies. Good for stacking, no?

No. Blasted fire fields are.

I fight alongside them, I just kite around until I got 3 illusions then I come in last. So perhaps it’s more about being a minion leader than a yolo tank.

Don’t Winds of Chaos/Mirrorblade illusions attack much more frequently than Defender and duelist, evening it out?

Otherwise; If the Bleed’s not that potent, then maybe I should just take Chaotic Dampening for Staff?

Blasted fire fields? Mind elaborating :p? You mean Combo Field: Blast? I’m not sure I know what you mean here :p

Paul Kay.4891:

hendo.1940:

I don’t see how you stacking toughness and vitality and hiding behind your illusions is “taking it like a man” whereas chaining reflects where even the slightest point of error causes you to be one-shotted isn’t.

I honestly don’t get this community.

Also:

1)Iirc Spatial surge is 3 instances of damage, Zerker is 4~ instances, Winds of Chaos is 2+ instances of damage. That’s insufficient?

Yes. duelist, 8 bleeds, warden, 12.

Then I pass off like 15+ might stacks from Mirrorblade on top of what bounced to my allies. Good for stacking, no?

No. Blasted fire fields are.

I fight alongside them, I just kite around until I got 3 illusions then I come in last. So perhaps it’s more about being a minion leader than a yolo tank.

Don’t Winds of Chaos/Mirrorblade illusions attack much more frequently than Defender and duelist, evening it out?

Otherwise; If the Bleed’s not that potent, then maybe I should just take Chaotic Dampening for Staff?

Blasted fire fields? Mind elaborating :p? You mean Combo Field: Blast? I’m not sure I know what you mean here :p

Illusions still don’t attack often enough to make up for the huge stacks from warden/pistol. This is a small additional source of damage for you, and the points might be used better elsewhere, like for Chaotic Dampening, as I suggested.

Blasted fire fields = Combo Field: Blast, yes. That’s what hendo was referring to— a good, useful form of support. The support you provide with boons as a mesmer is just bad, even with Chaos Storm and everything— it’s unreliable at best and ruins fire fields at worse, kittening off your team.

Every time you mention “tanking” you are making your build even worse/less effective/ more dead weight, even in PUG groups. We were talking 20-50% effectiveness before, but now we’re talking about 1-10%. If you’re using range weapons, why do you even need to have toughness/vitality for tanking? You already are putting an insane amount of points into Chaos for toughness, the extra from your gear is not needed.

Power + prec + crit damage are all crucial for PvE. Deviate from those three, and your build is getting worse and worse.

maxinion.8396:

Paul Kay.4891:

hendo.1940:

I don’t see how you stacking toughness and vitality and hiding behind your illusions is “taking it like a man” whereas chaining reflects where even the slightest point of error causes you to be one-shotted isn’t.

I honestly don’t get this community.

Also:

1)Iirc Spatial surge is 3 instances of damage, Zerker is 4~ instances, Winds of Chaos is 2+ instances of damage. That’s insufficient?

Yes. duelist, 8 bleeds, warden, 12.

Then I pass off like 15+ might stacks from Mirrorblade on top of what bounced to my allies. Good for stacking, no?

No. Blasted fire fields are.

I fight alongside them, I just kite around until I got 3 illusions then I come in last. So perhaps it’s more about being a minion leader than a yolo tank.

Don’t Winds of Chaos/Mirrorblade illusions attack much more frequently than Defender and duelist, evening it out?

Otherwise; If the Bleed’s not that potent, then maybe I should just take Chaotic Dampening for Staff?

Blasted fire fields? Mind elaborating :p? You mean Combo Field: Blast? I’m not sure I know what you mean here :p

Illusions still don’t attack often enough to make up for the huge stacks from warden/pistol. This is a small additional source of damage for you, and the points might be used better elsewhere, like for Chaotic Dampening, as I suggested.

Blasted fire fields = Combo Field: Blast, yes. That’s what hendo was referring to— a good, useful form of support. The support you provide with boons as a mesmer is just bad, even with Chaos Storm and everything— it’s unreliable at best and ruins fire fields at worse, kittening off your team.

Every time you mention “tanking” you are making your build even worse/less effective/ more dead weight, even in PUG groups. We were talking 20-50% effectiveness before, but now we’re talking about 1-10%. If you’re using range weapons, why do you even need to have toughness/vitality for tanking? You already are putting an insane amount of points into Chaos for toughness, the extra from your gear is not needed.

Power + prec + crit damage are all crucial for PvE. Deviate from those three, and your build is getting worse and worse.

Hm, all right. I’ll take Dampening and see if it works better for me. Other classes seem to be better at stacking bleed anyway and I got Winds of Chaos for some potential bleed I suppose.

Aren’t Zerker gear meant to be nerfed?

I thought of Toughness also because supposedly it decides aggro and Illusions with high toughness would allow my illusion to take a hit my allies close by won’t. That was my logic anyway.

Also, what about that combo field?

Despite all the back and forth, do keep in mind that GS/Staff is bad, in dungeons.

It is close to the best weapon setup for open world content (though a Focus to swap to would be really handy :P ), and it is a very good performer in WvW due to being useful both in smaller parties and in larger groups.
Depends on spec, though. 20/20/30 can work well, but you need to be ok with being something of a boon-supplier in that case. You’ll be good at it, tbh. Just not good at raw damage. 20/30/20 can be fun in WvW especially, you get some extra quickness and your clones have better on-death traits that way.

As Pyro said repeatedly, in Dungeons it is the worst setup you can choose, but somewhat easy to fix. If you’re 20/20/30 spec, go for Sword/Sword/ Staff, and you can swap some traits around and you should be ok. Far from top-tier, but you probably won’t hold any groups up by a noticeable amount.

One point is gear.
In PvE, you probably want Berserker gear. This seems weird at first with Staff, but the Phantasm is all about power-scaling, so it works ok, most of the time in open PvE you attack with the GS anyway, and use Staff for support/defence.
For WvW, you probably want either Knight or Soldier. You could consider Celestial, but until it is clear where they’re going with the stat-change, I wouldn’t look into it much (if they do refund all stat points spread over all stats, it could be pretty good WvW gear for that setup, tbh).

(edit)
I do however agree that from your comments, Mesmer is the last class you want to play. Even Thieves are more straightforward combat oriented than Mesmers.

Carighan.6758:

Despite all the back and forth, do keep in mind that GS/Staff is bad, in dungeons.

It is close to the best weapon setup for open world content (though a Focus to swap to would be really handy :P ), and it is a very good performer in WvW due to being useful both in smaller parties and in larger groups.
Depends on spec, though. 20/20/30 can work well, but you need to be ok with being something of a boon-supplier in that case. You’ll be good at it, tbh. Just not good at raw damage. 20/30/20 can be fun in WvW especially, you get some extra quickness and your clones have better on-death traits that way.

As Pyro said repeatedly, in Dungeons it is the worst setup you can choose, but somewhat easy to fix. If you’re 20/20/30 spec, go for Sword/Sword/ Staff, and you can swap some traits around and you should be ok. Far from top-tier, but you probably won’t hold any groups up by a noticeable amount.

One point is gear.
In PvE, you probably want Berserker gear. This seems weird at first with Staff, but the Phantasm is all about power-scaling, so it works ok, most of the time in open PvE you attack with the GS anyway, and use Staff for support/defence.
For WvW, you probably want either Knight or Soldier. You could consider Celestial, but until it is clear where they’re going with the stat-change, I wouldn’t look into it much (if they do refund all stat points spread over all stats, it could be pretty good WvW gear for that setup, tbh).

(edit)
I do however agree that from your comments, Mesmer is the last class you want to play. Even Thieves are more straightforward combat oriented than Mesmers.

Thanks!
I suppose I’ll do a mix of Knight/Soldier Trinkets with Toughness Infusions and Berserker Armor for some well-roundedness :p
i’m just not a fan of the sword(I know, it sounds silly, but I just don’t), I prefer to be in and out of melee while I output dps as I choose :p

So far it looks more like 20-10-20-0-20 though :p

Also, why Celestial gear 0_o? It looks rather… strange. All of you guys being min-maxers that surprises me :p

The nerf incoming is going to nerf critical damage, and make every damaging spec slightly worse because of that. Berserker will be hit least of all. Once again, for PvE: zerker all the way. It’s better to have zerker trinkets and weapon, and knight’s/soldier’s armor if you want survivability.

Your toughness is a waste because you have no way of controlling the aggro. Guardians sometimes take full Knight’s gear to have more toughness to draw the aggro, and then spam blinds and aegis to mitigate the damage that they attract. You have no way, as a mesmer, to actively mitigate damage like this (actually, sword/sword would give you an extra evade and block, but you’re refusing to use them).

Remember: stats in this game do not make you a tank. Abilities and traits do. And as a mesmer, you just don’t have the ability to tank effectively. (You can bunker effectively with PU, but that’s different from tanking).

maxinion.8396:

The nerf incoming is going to nerf critical damage, and make every damaging spec slightly worse because of that. Berserker will be hit least of all. Once again, for PvE: zerker all the way. It’s better to have zerker trinkets and weapon, and knight’s/soldier’s armor if you want survivability.

Your toughness is a waste because you have no way of controlling the aggro. Guardians sometimes take full Knight’s gear to have more toughness to draw the aggro, and then spam blinds and aegis to mitigate the damage that they attract. You have no way, as a mesmer, to actively mitigate damage like this (actually, sword/sword would give you an extra evade and block, but you’re refusing to use them).

Remember: stats in this game do not make you a tank. Abilities and traits do. And as a mesmer, you just don’t have the ability to tank effectively. (You can bunker effectively with PU, but that’s different from tanking).

That’s quite informative, thanks!

What about the point about Celestial Gear?

Would you consider running something else than Zerkers if it got nerfed? If so, what =]?

Also, What’s PU?

Paul Kay.4891:

What about the point about Celestial Gear?

Due to how crit damage currently works, celestial gear has a higher ratio of crit damage than it does other stats, and this is getting a huge nerf with the change to ferocity.

Paul Kay.4891:

Would you consider running something else than Zerkers if it got nerfed? If so, what =]?

We will run whatever is best. If they nerf power-based gear so badly that it becomes worse than condition damage, I’ll probably just stop doing dungeons altogether.

Paul Kay.4891:

Also, What’s PU?

Prismatic understanding, grandmaster chaos trait.

Pyroatheist.9031:

Paul Kay.4891:

What about the point about Celestial Gear?

Due to how crit damage currently works, celestial gear has a higher ratio of crit damage than it does other stats, and this is getting a huge nerf with the change to ferocity.

Paul Kay.4891:

Would you consider running something else than Zerkers if it got nerfed? If so, what =]?

We will run whatever is best. If they nerf power-based gear so badly that it becomes worse than condition damage, I’ll probably just stop doing dungeons altogether.

Paul Kay.4891:

Also, What’s PU?

Prismatic understanding, grandmaster chaos trait.

What’s the change to Ferocity =]?

Prismatic Understanding I assume is all about Decoy Mass Invisibility and The Prestige with that trait? How does that work?

Perhaps I could craft Celestial gear instead of making a mix of Knight’s/Berserker’s. Seems to fit my “rounded”, all-purpose build. What do You think?

Also, I respect your dedication to minmaxing :p Sorry we could not come to an agreement earlier:p

Paul Kay.4891:

Pyroatheist.9031:

Paul Kay.4891:

What about the point about Celestial Gear?

Due to how crit damage currently works, celestial gear has a higher ratio of crit damage than it does other stats, and this is getting a huge nerf with the change to ferocity.

Paul Kay.4891:

Would you consider running something else than Zerkers if it got nerfed? If so, what =]?

We will run whatever is best. If they nerf power-based gear so badly that it becomes worse than condition damage, I’ll probably just stop doing dungeons altogether.

Paul Kay.4891:

Also, What’s PU?

Prismatic understanding, grandmaster chaos trait.

What’s the change to Ferocity =]?

Prismatic Understanding I assume is all about Decoy Mass Invisibility and The Prestige? How does that work?

Perhaps I could craft Celestial gear instead of making a mix of Knight’s/Berserker’s. Seems to fit my “rounded” build. What do You think?

Also, I respect your dedication to minmaxing :p Sorry we could not come to an agreement earlier:p

The ferocity change refers to the upcoming change in how critical damage is calculated (with a new base stat called Ferocity, much like crit chance is related to Precision). Celestial is expected to be hit hard by this, but we don’t know yet. I’ll use whatever is best at the end of the day, but I sure as hell hope it is something similar to Berserker’s as that promotes the most interesting/skillful play.

Celestial is fine for WvW. I wouldn’t ever bring it into PvE— stats like extra condition damage are not going to be very useful for you, while a zerker/knight’s/soldier’s combination focuses only on the important stats. Celestial is also time consuming and expensive to make compared to other gear, so I dislike it immediately because of that.

PU is a trait for making your stealth better (and gives you boons when you’re stealthed), and many pvp/wvw players use it. People make very bunker-based builds that are impossible to kill with this trait because they keep hiding. But again, that’s different from tanking, where you hold aggro and try to divert it from your allies. Mesmers can bunker (survive/hide) but they cannot really tank reliably.

maxinion.8396:

Paul Kay.4891:

Pyroatheist.9031:

Paul Kay.4891:

What about the point about Celestial Gear?

Due to how crit damage currently works, celestial gear has a higher ratio of crit damage than it does other stats, and this is getting a huge nerf with the change to ferocity.

Paul Kay.4891:

Would you consider running something else than Zerkers if it got nerfed? If so, what =]?

We will run whatever is best. If they nerf power-based gear so badly that it becomes worse than condition damage, I’ll probably just stop doing dungeons altogether.

Paul Kay.4891:

Also, What’s PU?

Prismatic understanding, grandmaster chaos trait.

What’s the change to Ferocity =]?

Prismatic Understanding I assume is all about Decoy Mass Invisibility and The Prestige? How does that work?

Perhaps I could craft Celestial gear instead of making a mix of Knight’s/Berserker’s. Seems to fit my “rounded” build. What do You think?

Also, I respect your dedication to minmaxing :p Sorry we could not come to an agreement earlier:p

The ferocity change refers to the upcoming change in how critical damage is calculated (with a new base stat called Ferocity, much like crit chance is related to Precision). Celestial is expected to be hit hard by this, but we don’t know yet. I’ll use whatever is best at the end of the day, but I sure as hell hope it is something similar to Berserker’s as that promotes the most interesting/skillful play.

Celestial is fine for WvW. I wouldn’t ever bring it into PvE— stats like extra condition damage are not going to be very useful for you, while a zerker/knight’s/soldier’s combination focuses only on the important stats. Celestial is also time consuming and expensive to make compared to other gear, so I dislike it immediately because of that.

PU is a trait for making your stealth better (and gives you boons when you’re stealthed), and many pvp/wvw players use it. People make very bunker-based builds that are impossible to kill with this trait because they keep hiding. But again, that’s different from tanking, where you hold aggro and try to divert it from your allies. Mesmers can bunker (survive/hide) but they cannot really tank reliably.

To be honest I’m quite happy to hear about that Ferocity change.
Whenever possible, more than one “correct” way to play would be best, for me at least :p

So, Knight’s armor, Zerker weapons and trinkets, that sounds about right? Power Infusions, Scholar Runes?

Could you run down how a typical bunker plays out?

After playing around with 20/10/20/0/20 for a while, the Staff Toughness bonus made me sort of forfeit the idea of Knight’s armor. So I’ll go full Zerker, as you like it so much :p

Much thanks for Your input ! <3

Paul Kay.4891:

stale, boring, not too fun meta

Can you be specific about what exactly you find boring about the mesmer meta? I just started playing mesmer as I’m leveling one and I find the meta fascinating. There are all kinds of tweaks and variations available, practically every trait slot has a compelling alternative available for trait switching on the fly, and mesmer sword is AWESOME.

I’ve leveled 4 classes to 80 (thief, ranger, necro, guardian) and none of them have as many exciting traits & utilities available in the “meta” build.

How is paying attention to positioning, cooldowns, reflects and evades boring, while mindlessly spamming attacks (staff + gs) with pretty much zero effect anyway is fun?

OP wishes to play however he wants more than wanting to not be a dead weight in a dungeon.

If someone here does the math for you on paper the difference between Staff+GS and Sw/Fc + Sw/Sw you’ll be astonished by how abysmal it is.

If you can’t afford to buy the lvl 80 exotic gears, look for close to lvl 80 exotic gears (lvl 78), the stat differences aren’t that much.

An ELE in a full PVT both in gear and trinkets using the meta build (LH / Fresh Air / Staff) contributes more than a Mesmer in full berserker’s or full carrion in Staff+GS.

In this regard, rightly playing using the Sword+Focus & Sword+Sword/Pistol is more important than min/maxing, to be honest.

Paul Kay.4891:

I’m sorry if I sound stubborn or misidirected, I’m just not fond of doing what everyone else does just because it’s “considered” best.

After reading this thread, and rolling my eyes every few seconds, I only want to comment on this.

You can’t come into this game as a new player and make a comment on “‘considered’ best” when you have barely touched a dungeon. The meta builds are discussed to death and agreed upon by the players who have spent infinitely more time than you ever will in dungeons. Many builds were tested in the process of defining the best ‘meta’ builds. These players know how to play their classes and in the best possible way. They know how the AI works and the most skillful way to play around it. These builds aren’t just ‘considered’ best; simply put, they are the best.

In the end, you are going to play how you want, and that is okay given you know that your build is not the best but you do it because it is more fun. You should make sure to find groups of like minded individuals and join (as others have said) ‘everyone welcome’ runs; otherwise, you might find a tough time finding players who will not kick you.