Guild Wars 2

(my response is from a pvp perspective)

GOOD MESMER

• Have different ways to engage a fight.
• Can run multiple builds, but have one mastered.
• Knows PU isn’t as cheesy as everyone proclaims.
• Can fight other Mesmer confidently.

NOT SO GOOD MESMER

• Will spam their rotation immediately, usually starting with greatsword.
• Cannot land a shatter burst without sword (I’m somewhat guilty of this. xD)
• Random dodges all day. (again, me)
• Has trouble vs other Mesmer.
• Uses greatsword at close range.
• Always engages from stealth.. Literally. Always.
• Does not shatter! (Worse thing to do as a Mesmer on any build!)

What say you?

Chaos Archangel.5071:

(my response is from a pvp perspective)

GOOD MESMER

• Have different ways to engage a fight.
• Can run multiple builds, but have one mastered.
• Knows PU isn’t as cheesy as everyone proclaims.
• Can fight other Mesmer confidently.

NOT SO GOOD MESMER

• Will spam their rotation immediately, usually starting with greatsword.
• Cannot land a shatter burst without sword (I’m somewhat guilty of this. xD)
• Random dodges all day. (again, me)
• Has trouble vs other Mesmer.
• Uses greatsword at close range.
• Always engages from stealth.. Literally. Always.
• Does not shatter! (Worse thing to do as a Mesmer on any build!)

---

What say you?

What’s wrong with using GS melee range? GS 2 actually benefits from being in melee range.

Largely spot on.

I’m guilty of failing to shatter. I’ll add that without [Time Catches Up] shatters with 3 clones and the personal shatter hit are rare as hen’s teeth for me. There is so much pbaoe (even from auto attacks) that placing Illusions close to a target is impractical. Far away clones seldom hit because they are slow and dumb..

So, I become dependent on non shatter skills like [ Confusing Images ]. Insight on this would be much appreciated.

-edit- The primary complaints about PU are frequent stealth and the ability to attack from safety. The same is true of Rangers who can attack completely out of LOS and use “fire and forget” Pet attacks. Not to mention frequent stealth.

The new Engineer is going to have mobile golems with the same issues.

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Chaos Archangel.5071:

(my response is from a pvp perspective)

GOOD MESMER

• Have different ways to engage a fight.
• Can run multiple builds, but have one mastered.
• Knows PU isn’t as cheesy as everyone proclaims.
• Can fight other Mesmer confidently.

NOT SO GOOD MESMER

• Will spam their rotation immediately, usually starting with greatsword.
• Cannot land a shatter burst without sword (I’m somewhat guilty of this. xD)
• Random dodges all day. (again, me)
• Has trouble vs other Mesmer.
• Uses greatsword at close range.
• Always engages from stealth.. Literally. Always.
• Does not shatter! (Worse thing to do as a Mesmer on any build!)

---

What say you?

What’s wrong with using GS melee range? GS 2 actually benefits from being in melee range.

GS in general benefits more from being further away for several reasons:

- Since you lack any sort of real defensive skill, you benefit from kiting and remaining at range (which is why the GS trait cripples on each skill).

- All skills are 1200r (giving you an advantage against many other weapons, though moreso in WvW). Autoattack does more damage the further you are.

- You’re right that GS2 is better for closer ranges, but GS2 tends to be used in shatter-combos (such as GS2 + GS3 & F1 in about 1 second), and shatters in general are better the closer you are.

So when you see someone trying to spam greatsword auto right in your face, you know there’s a problem. =P

@Ithilwen: It could be that you’re trying to shatter too many clones at once? I dunno if you run DE or not, but if you do then you can often get by with a single clone summoning skill (like GS2 or Phase Retreat or iLeap) and dodging through the opponent, leaving a clone near them to shatter. 2-clone shatter bursts in melee range hit for pretty hefty damage and can be pulled off fairly quickly. Even 1-clone shatters can be rather painful and put you at an advantage.

Otherwise, Distortion [F4] is the number 1 shatter to get comfortable using. In any build -even Phantasm- a well-timed Distortion will save lives and keep you in the fight.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

• Cannot land a shatter burst without sword (I’m somewhat guilty of this. xD)

There is no greater satisfaction than seeing someone walk into a shatter burst. Like… some people just walk into your clones.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Chaos Archangel.5071:

(my response is from a pvp perspective)

GOOD MESMER

• Have different ways to engage a fight.
• Can run multiple builds, but have one mastered.
• Knows PU isn’t as cheesy as everyone proclaims.
• Can fight other Mesmer confidently.

NOT SO GOOD MESMER

• Will spam their rotation immediately, usually starting with greatsword.
• Cannot land a shatter burst without sword (I’m somewhat guilty of this. xD)
• Random dodges all day. (again, me)
• Has trouble vs other Mesmer.
• Uses greatsword at close range.
• Always engages from stealth.. Literally. Always.
• Does not shatter! (Worse thing to do as a Mesmer on any build!)

---

What say you?

What’s wrong with using GS melee range? GS 2 actually benefits from being in melee range.

GS in general benefits more from being further away for several reasons:

- Since you lack any sort of real defensive skill, you benefit from kiting and remaining at range (which is why the GS trait cripples on each skill).

- All skills are 1200r (giving you an advantage against many other weapons, though moreso in WvW). Autoattack does more damage the further you are.

- You’re right that GS2 is better for closer ranges, but GS2 tends to be used in shatter-combos (such as GS2 + GS3 & F1 in about 1 second), and shatters in general are better the closer you are.

So when you see someone trying to spam greatsword auto right in your face, you know there’s a problem. =P

Dodge is your defense! And no GS 5 isn’t 1200 range. I don’t think a blanket statement like GS in melee is bad is a good idea. Cause there are tons of times where it IS useful. Not to say there also aren’t plenty of times where you want to use it at range.

I will work more on including small shatters in my repertoire. From my POV, they hit so seldom that they aren’t really a main thing.. just a trash attack I throw out there for the (tiny) aoe and heal.

I’ll see what focusing on 1 or two clone shatters does.

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Chaos Archangel.5071:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Chaos Archangel.5071:

(my response is from a pvp perspective)

GOOD MESMER

• Have different ways to engage a fight.
• Can run multiple builds, but have one mastered.
• Knows PU isn’t as cheesy as everyone proclaims.
• Can fight other Mesmer confidently.

NOT SO GOOD MESMER

• Will spam their rotation immediately, usually starting with greatsword.
• Cannot land a shatter burst without sword (I’m somewhat guilty of this. xD)
• Random dodges all day. (again, me)
• Has trouble vs other Mesmer.
• Uses greatsword at close range.
• Always engages from stealth.. Literally. Always.
• Does not shatter! (Worse thing to do as a Mesmer on any build!)

---

What say you?

What’s wrong with using GS melee range? GS 2 actually benefits from being in melee range.

GS in general benefits more from being further away for several reasons:

- Since you lack any sort of real defensive skill, you benefit from kiting and remaining at range (which is why the GS trait cripples on each skill).

- All skills are 1200r (giving you an advantage against many other weapons, though moreso in WvW). Autoattack does more damage the further you are.

- You’re right that GS2 is better for closer ranges, but GS2 tends to be used in shatter-combos (such as GS2 + GS3 & F1 in about 1 second), and shatters in general are better the closer you are.

So when you see someone trying to spam greatsword auto right in your face, you know there’s a problem. =P

Dodge is your defense! And no GS 5 isn’t 1200 range. I don’t think a blanket statement like GS in melee is bad is a good idea. Cause there are tons of times where it IS useful. Not to say there also aren’t plenty of times where you want to use it at range.

Dodge is your defense period, no matter what weapon.

And yeah GS 5 isn’t 1200r, true, but it does emphasize the ‘you want to be ranged’ theme of the GS with it’s heavy push. You say “tons of times where it IS useful” in melee, but I honestly can’t think of many outside of a Mindwrack shatter burst where it wouldn’t be wiser to just switch weapons when up close, mind elaborating? There are far more ranged applications IMO.

@Ithilwen When each shatter is hitting for about 1.5-2k, landing even a 1-clone shatter is around 3-4k as long as you’re close enough for iPersona! 0-clone Diversion (daze) shatters are great for interrupts or to save you from attacks like 100blades, heartseeker, ect. And if you’re running a Domination specced build, it’s likely each shatter is stripping boons too.

Try out close-ranged shatters for your particular style. Don’t go out of your way for it, but let the opportunities come.

The same things that separate any good player vs any bad player.

Patience.
Kiting.
Knowledge.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Chaos Archangel.5071:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Chaos Archangel.5071:

(my response is from a pvp perspective)

GOOD MESMER

• Have different ways to engage a fight.
• Can run multiple builds, but have one mastered.
• Knows PU isn’t as cheesy as everyone proclaims.
• Can fight other Mesmer confidently.

NOT SO GOOD MESMER

• Will spam their rotation immediately, usually starting with greatsword.
• Cannot land a shatter burst without sword (I’m somewhat guilty of this. xD)
• Random dodges all day. (again, me)
• Has trouble vs other Mesmer.
• Uses greatsword at close range.
• Always engages from stealth.. Literally. Always.
• Does not shatter! (Worse thing to do as a Mesmer on any build!)

---

What say you?

What’s wrong with using GS melee range? GS 2 actually benefits from being in melee range.

GS in general benefits more from being further away for several reasons:

- Since you lack any sort of real defensive skill, you benefit from kiting and remaining at range (which is why the GS trait cripples on each skill).

- All skills are 1200r (giving you an advantage against many other weapons, though moreso in WvW). Autoattack does more damage the further you are.

- You’re right that GS2 is better for closer ranges, but GS2 tends to be used in shatter-combos (such as GS2 + GS3 & F1 in about 1 second), and shatters in general are better the closer you are.

So when you see someone trying to spam greatsword auto right in your face, you know there’s a problem. =P

Dodge is your defense! And no GS 5 isn’t 1200 range. I don’t think a blanket statement like GS in melee is bad is a good idea. Cause there are tons of times where it IS useful. Not to say there also aren’t plenty of times where you want to use it at range.

Dodge is your defense period, no matter what weapon.

And yeah GS 5 isn’t 1200r, true, but it does emphasize the ‘you want to be ranged’ theme of the GS with it’s heavy push. You say “tons of times where it IS useful” in melee, but I honestly can’t think of many outside of a Mindwrack shatter burst where it wouldn’t be wiser to just switch weapons when up close, mind elaborating? There are far more ranged applications IMO.

@Ithilwen When each shatter is hitting for about 1.5-2k, landing even a 1-clone shatter is around 3-4k as long as you’re close enough for iPersona! 0-clone Diversion (daze) shatters are great for interrupts or to save you from attacks like 100blades, heartseeker, ect. And if you’re running a Domination specced build, it’s likely each shatter is stripping boons too.

Try out close-ranged shatters for your particular style. Don’t go out of your way for it, but let the opportunities come.

" I honestly can’t think of many outside of a Mindwrack shatter burst where it wouldn’t be wiser to just switch weapons when up close"

This is half of what mesmers job in a match is. You attack from range, but if that’s all you do you won’t be a effective mesmer. GS burst is way faster than any sword burst. And like for bursting out of stealth when the enemy isn’t expecting it this is the way to go. If your right next to them and in stealth they can’t see the GS 2 blade compared to say sword where they can dodge the 3. If you watch say helseth play you will see him use GS both in melee and range. Yes you will be using range more often than melee but that’s true for mesmer in general. Mesmer melee burst is just as crucial tho and GS does that very effectively.

So I’m doing alright then. Good to know.

Ross Biddle.2367:

So I’m doing alright then. Good to know.

Arrogance is another sign of a good Mesmer apparently…

Tealots.6095:

Ross Biddle.2367:

So I’m doing alright then. Good to know.

Arrogance is another sign of a good Mesmer apparently…

You know, this thread was honestly intended to see how people analyze their opponents… And yet only one other person actually answered the question. =[

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Tealots.6095:

Ross Biddle.2367:

So I’m doing alright then. Good to know.

Arrogance is another sign of a good Mesmer apparently…

You know, this thread was honestly intended to see how people analyze their opponents… And yet only one other person actually answered the question. =[

Dad made me feel guilty

Here’s what I think separates the two: A good Mesmer will always have a way out. Especially in PvP. Mesmers are a +1 class and not Bunkers/Point holders, at least not conventionally. I think that always having that ability to quickly move from Home to Mid (or a move like that) is extremely important. We can do large bursts every 10 seconds, but we can’t escape every 10 seconds. Managing our stealths, blurs, blinks and ports is tricky business. We’re not a Cele class that pops cooldowns and wades into the thick of it.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Tealots.6095:

Ross Biddle.2367:

So I’m doing alright then. Good to know.

Arrogance is another sign of a good Mesmer apparently…

You know, this thread was honestly intended to see how people analyze their opponents… And yet only one other person actually answered the question. =[

Wait did I win?!?

What Separates A Good Mesmer From A Bad?

If I was to answer this in one sentence it would be something similar to . . . . . .

What separates a good mesmer from a bad mesmer is the ability to understand the class and game to the point where you know when, where, why, and how to use specific traits, skills, armor, runes, sigils, mechanics, and weapons to best achieve the desired outcome.

This really covers too much to explain in one post, actually it pretty much covers everything in the game. However, its pretty much true. You do need to understand all the classes, items, areas, and mechanics of the game to become a better mesmer. This may involve knowing when to use your different shatters in pvp, wvw, and pve as well as knowing when to use different sigils, armor, runes, and weapons. This is also why I said desired outcome. Everyone might have a different desired outcome. Perhaps your goal is to apply as many conditions as possible. Perhaps your goal is to control your opponent. Perhaps your goal is to apply as much dps in a dungeon as possible. Perhaps your goal is to buff the dps of your group as much as possible. Perhaps your goal is to kill an enemy as fast as possible in a 1v1 pvp situation. Whatever the game mode (pvp, wvw, dungeon, fractal) and whatever goal your trying to achieve, you should know what you should be doing and why. If you do this, your ability to be a “good mesmer” should theoretically transfer with you to other areas of the game as well, like stronghold, new HoT maps, and upcomming raids.

A good mesmer multiclasses, In order to know how to beat other classes effectively, one must understand other classes as well.

I’d agree with Tealots on “always having a way out”. More so in wvw than pvp, but either way, being able to survive/escape when kitten hits the fan and really pushes you near to death is one major point.

The only other thing I’d say is adaptability. Being able to read any given situation and either through intuition or fast planning work your way through it is another key point.

StickerHappy.8052:

A good mesmer multiclasses, In order to know how to beat other classes effectively, one must understand other classes as well.

So long as the Mesmer runs his role, wins his fights, and comes out on top of his matches (team not withstanding), multiclassing is irrelevant.

Tealots.6095:

Ross Biddle.2367:

So I’m doing alright then. Good to know.

Arrogance is another sign of a good Mesmer apparently…

I just went down Chaos’ list and drew a conclusion based on my self assessment. I suppose there’s a fine line between being arrogant and realistic.

Of course if we can’t be honest at the risk of sounding arrogant, how can we ever hope to get at truth :)

Ross Biddle.2367:

StickerHappy.8052:

A good mesmer multiclasses, In order to know how to beat other classes effectively, one must understand other classes as well.

So long as the Mesmer runs his role, wins his fights, and comes out on top of his matches (team not withstanding), multiclassing is irrelevant.

Ah… how do you win fights against equally skilled people? Without knowing a thing or two about the class they are playing.

Yea you might win sometimes, but its more efficient to know how other classes work too. Not by playing against them, but also playing them.

You remember what mesmers tell people? “Create and play a mesmer to know how to fight them”

So being good with the class mastery itself is only 50% of being good.

I want to get good at mesmer vs mesmer so PM me for duels whenever you’re on boys. (I’m NA). I enjoy a good scuffle. I run yolo 420 build only though.

StickerHappy.8052:

Ross Biddle.2367:

StickerHappy.8052:

A good mesmer multiclasses, In order to know how to beat other classes effectively, one must understand other classes as well.

So long as the Mesmer runs his role, wins his fights, and comes out on top of his matches (team not withstanding), multiclassing is irrelevant.

Ah… how do you win fights against equally skilled people? Without knowing a thing or two about the class they are playing.

Yea you might win sometimes, but its more efficient to know how other classes work too. Not by playing against them, but also playing them.

You remember what mesmers tell people? “Create and play a mesmer to know how to fight them”

So being good with the class mastery itself is only 50% of being good.

Yes it’s efficient, or more specifically an efficient way with which to learn. It’s hardly necessary though. There are only a finite number of skills, builds, and effects you can face vs other classes. It is possible, albeit reasonable to learn to face and overcome other classes without ever creating an alt.

You can even obtain useful knowledge without playing the game at all.

I find many things that make a Mesmer good or bad are often the same in and out of PvP. I speak mostly for PvE but I have PvP’ed often

Good:
Knowing that often GS is not the best option.
Being able to place a properly timed reflect (want to see a staff ele drop with one shot?)
Being able to swap builds on a dime… I run 5 mesmer builds at any given time and had the nickname of Swiss-army Mesmer thrown at me the other day.
Mimic usage, this skill really messes with people.
Is lost without shatter/ does not know how to play with other classes. For example if you duo with a venom share thief your phantoms can pass on his venoms at his condi damage.

Bad:
Face rolling the keyboard, you know the ones that will reflect a rock or something and use other wtf skills on the rush into a fight.
Never reflects stuff, we do reflects better than any other class… why not use them.
Always uses the same build for every fight.

Good Mesmer
- Knows every matchup (Doesn’t = good at 1v1, rather just knowing enemy skills and how to counter them)
- Has great positioning
- Realizes how stupid PU is and doesn’t have fun playing it because its actually really boring
- Doesn’t rely on cooldowns to survive, rather knows as many kiting spots and pr in the game as possible and knows how to perform them while being focused and make a solid judgement on if he will be able to survive by using those spots or will he have to use a cooldown
- Stays calm during the whole match, no matter what but still has sharp reactions
- Great map awareness
- Unpredictable
- Fake casts skills to pull dodges and cancels skills if he decides they’re not needed during cast time(reactions)
ect.
Bad Mesmer
- Plays PU all the time and can’t play anything else
- Most likely picked mesmer up when it became “OP”
- Doesn’t dodge anything on purpose, rather random doges a lot
- Relies fully on cooldowns and wastes them heavily (ie when the enemy mesmer stealthes you insta 1s distort and then get blown up because you’re a moron)
- Can’t kite for jack sh…
- Exteremely predictable (Stealth stun burst and run away)
- Only bursts with mirrorblade
- Questionable rotations
- Wastes all offensive cooldowns, not something people think of when people say cooldown management but if you do mirror blade into mind wrack into izerker into mind stab into gs 5 when I’m distorted, you kittened up with your cooldown management, son. Its not just decoy, blink and distort that you’re supposed to ‘manage’
- Can’t cancel cast

It’s certainly interestingly educational seeing the different personal statements of good and bad in this thread.

Regarding power shatter

Bad: Someone who plays PU
Good: Someone who doesn’t need to play PU

Good
- Knows that the profession is more than a one-trick pony.
- Masters multiple ways of playing the profession, can play all at once.
- Knows how to use their skills in more ways than one (e.g., Leap Finishers).
- Are able to react quickly, e.g., should a Thief get a jump on them from stealth.
- Can interrupt with relative ease, purposely, not wasteful.
- Knows when to shatter, and when to leave illusions out for pressure.
- Dodges as avoidance, not to wastefully create clones for one all or nothing burst.
- Has a good understanding of how other professions plays.

Bad
- Never uses Leap Finishers to create, e.g., Chaos Armor.
- Dodges wastefully to create clones for an all or nothing burst setup.
- Overly relies on stealth and are not capable of surviving without it.
- Never takes the time to learn how to interrupt with intent.
- Gets stuck playing a single way, never branching out.
- Has no idea what the other professions are doing to them.
- Follows a (atypical) rotation. Becomes predictable.
- Isn’t playing Chronomancer (—Ok, fine, not really.. can it be Oct. 23 yet?)

Absconditus.6804:

- Isn’t playing Chronomancer (—Ok, fine, not really.. can it be Oct. 23 yet?)

Heh, I hear you – these beta weekends are annoying because it’s like dangling a carrot which we can’t eat yet for another month…

I can’t really play my Mesmer anymore. Chronomancer has spoiled me.

Embolism.8106:

I can’t really play my Mesmer anymore. Chronomancer has spoiled me.

Yeah true.

It’s just so much more fun.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

(my response is from a pvp perspective)

GOOD MESMER

• Have different ways to engage a fight.
• Can run multiple builds, but have one mastered.
• Knows PU isn’t as cheesy as everyone proclaims.
• Can fight other Mesmer confidently.

NOT SO GOOD MESMER

• Will spam their rotation immediately, usually starting with greatsword.
• Cannot land a shatter burst without sword (I’m somewhat guilty of this. xD)
• Random dodges all day. (again, me)
• Has trouble vs other Mesmer.
• Uses greatsword at close range.
• Always engages from stealth.. Literally. Always.
• Does not shatter! (Worse thing to do as a Mesmer on any build!)

---

What say you?

Then I’m somwhere inbetween a good mesmer and not so good mesmer. I can fight other mesmer, confidently, I don’t even use PU at all, infact PU to me is meh. I can run different builds, But haven’t actually masterd any of them. Well the thing is, I’m one of those guys that plays all classes decently. so it might be one of the reasons i’m not a good mesmer. Oh well, more fun in me bieng able to say that i can play with every class., I can fight differently. i can fight almost all classes and adapt but necro mancer. well it sucks cause i atm a condi build so tough kitten on me xD. I also think that a good mesmer should be able to timer thier interupts and shatters accordingly. Also sometimes it’s good not to shatter immeadatly if you want to stack up on either condi’s or just straight out damage, for example the phantasmal duelist(phantasm with a gun) is incredibly handy imo to have it stay alive. I don’t ever have a rotation. I just fight with what is needed at the moment.

With the exception of the PU comments, I think Jurica nailed the whole thing. Those are the things which separate bad from good, or even decent from good.

I disagree with the notion of a mesmer being bad if they only know one build. Even if they don’t play other builds but they wreck face and do everything Jurica detailed and ultimately they win, they are good.

Also the notion that a good/bad mesmer is defined somewhat by how they fight other mesmers is only 1/8 of the evaluation. A good mesmer must be efficient at fighting all other professions.

“Good” and “Bad” are sujective terms, at least as evidenced by the many varied responses. Ultimately though, being good or bad can be simply defined by winning or losing.

With the PU things I meant that if when he plays PU he kills things and doesn’t die but then if he tries to play illusions for example is food the entire game. That isn’t a good mesmer thats a player that is getting carried by PU. I didn’t express myself well. Playing PU in itself doesn’t make you a bad mesmer but I don’t really see how a good one can find PU fun. Thats like being able to play the guitar like John Mayer /Clapton /Hendrix /SRV for example and then having a lot of fun just playing the standard D chord into A the whole time. It not really a valid part of the definition but its mostly true in my opinion.

good mesmer have timing bad ones don’t.

a good mesmer wins..
a bad mesmer loses.. ez enuff

A good Mesmer kills fast
A bad Mesmer dies fast

K.I.S.S.
(keep it simple, sexy)

A person can be a good one day and bad on another. There is no either/or. If I’m well rested and focused I play really well, but if I’m tired or have something on my mind distracting me, my performance is mediocre. The difference can be the same as day and night. The combat is so fast sometimes that if you aren’t on top form those extra fractions of a second in response time can mean defeat or victory.

When it comes to the technical side of playing mes.

Good:

I would say a good mes knows how to use a skill/utility both offensively and defensively and is not afraid of melee range combat. Has good situationally variable skill rotations. Knows how to position themselves on the battlefield.

Bad

A bad mes only uses a skill either defensively or offensively. Primarily only engages at in ranged combat. Runs away at the first sign of trouble. Will not deliberately engage in a 2v1 (ever), but is always happy to engage when the opponent is out numbered. Only logs on to their mes for the daily In general plays far too defensively to the point of not contributing much the team.