Guild Wars 2

Caelus.7139:

Please just take out the cleavable f5 mechanic…This mechanic makes us cornered as roaming/dueling classes since it’ll obviously be useless in WvW AoE spams…

In the list of weird language abominations MMOs create, “cleavable f5 mechanic” is a new high. What do you even mean by it? I can apply the rewind to 3 friendly targets in front of me?

Carighan.6758:

Caelus.7139:

Please just take out the cleavable f5 mechanic…This mechanic makes us cornered as roaming/dueling classes since it’ll obviously be useless in WvW AoE spams…

In the list of weird language abominations MMOs create, “cleavable f5 mechanic” is a new high. What do you even mean by it? I can apply the rewind to 3 friendly targets in front of me?

i think he was talking about the crystal when you recall, you can cleave it because it is destroyable.

Zenith.7301:

Quadox.7834:

StickerHappy.8052:

Windwalker.7421:

Not to rain of everyone’s parade of tears, but there are a lot of people exaggerating so much it’s just ridiculous. Let’s just put aside that Anet said all the balancing is still totally open, that they made it very clear that we’re looking more at mechanics and basic ideas, rather than final values and finished abilities.

People are speculating about how Chrono abilities “obviously” are inferior and DH abilities are clearly superior, without having actually tested either of them. Take the whole 25 Vulnerability thing. I bet people would actually whine about this if it were put on a Well, because “Wah we already put out so much Vuln, and so does everyone else, this is so useless! Engie stack 20+ in an instant, then this ability will do nothing!”

Alacrity is also obviously bad or supposedly not as good as many may think, although we all know how strong Chill’s slowing effect is!?

The other CD reducing effects are probably a hidden nerf, although math clearly shows that they can be stronger (if used well aka SKILL) then the current flat reductions.

Thieves will still be a hard counter despite a huge amount of survivability, spike damage, condie damage, etc. being added.

Mostly a lot of stuff being said here is simply “grass is greener” spam, that sadly always happens when another class’ goodies are revealed. While strong, I saw nothing of the Guardian that makes me think I’m going to give up my Mesmer and play a Guardian. I have a strong feeling that to get the DH goodies, you end up having to kitten a lot of what makes Guardians strong right now. (aka TRADE OFFS)

I have no issue on other classes mechanics or other goodies they get, I am only mad on how they presented the mesmer feature which clearly lacks tact and other necessary information. Why did that happen? Why is DH presentation painfully better, well presented, gave all necessary information to those people who main and play guardian?

Now look at ours, till now its all speculation, no explanation or whatsoever for giving justification to their ideas, etc. So..why is that?

Simple, our was a point of interest, aka not pvp blance focused. Which sucks.

Um, he was using staff, a pvp weapon totally worthless in PvE and large scale WvW.

He was using shatters, worthless in pve.

I don’t know where you get the idea that this wasn’t a pvp balance presentation considering he spent a lot of his time explaining all the dumb restrictions and drawbacks imposed on the new skills for the sake of their precious PvP balance.

End product is the same, mesmer will be a burst class eclipsed by thief but people hate all burst classes so mesmer will eat a couple of nerfs to cooldowns and durations of skills and remain a gimmick class in PvE as a result and a deficient competitive PvP class relative to thief and guardian.

Watch previous point of interests and ready ups. The difference is huge.

Next week i do not think they will do what they did for mesmer, since they have learnt by now. ^^

Carighan.6758:

Caelus.7139:

Please just take out the cleavable f5 mechanic…This mechanic makes us cornered as roaming/dueling classes since it’ll obviously be useless in WvW AoE spams…

In the list of weird language abominations MMOs create, “cleavable f5 mechanic” is a new high. What do you even mean by it? I can apply the rewind to 3 friendly targets in front of me?

In this game, melee “cleave” by default. So those zerg traits/20 man guilds? The moment you shatter all those aoe death zones+ autoattack cleaves will kill it immediately.

Look at what happens to clones/phantasms, and HP makes no difference ranger drakes have 40k+ HP and they still get chewed up in a couple of seconds.

That crystal is a spvp/dueling mechanic that will screw over mesmer in large scale WvW and PvE.

Zenith.7301:

Carighan.6758:

Caelus.7139:

Please just take out the cleavable f5 mechanic…This mechanic makes us cornered as roaming/dueling classes since it’ll obviously be useless in WvW AoE spams…

In the list of weird language abominations MMOs create, “cleavable f5 mechanic” is a new high. What do you even mean by it? I can apply the rewind to 3 friendly targets in front of me?

In this game, melee “cleave” by default. So those zerg traits/20 man guilds? The moment you shatter all those aoe death zones+ autoattack cleaves will kill it immediately.

Look at what happens to clones/phantasms, and HP makes no difference ranger drakes have 40k+ HP and they still get chewed up in a couple of seconds.

That crystal is a spvp/dueling mechanic that will screw over mesmer in large scale WvW and PvE.

Again the main point is until now we are speculating because of the lack of info, who knows how many hp will the crystal have? will it be immune to condis? crits? Which imo should’ve been addressed early on that presentation.

The crystal mechanic will also be kinda bad for PvP since the nodes will be full of AoE circles most of the time, unless you can wanna place it like flesh wurm like on a ledge or something.

Zenith.7301:

In this game, melee “cleave” by default. So those zerg traits/20 man guilds? The moment you shatter all those aoe death zones+ autoattack cleaves will kill it immediately.

Look at what happens to clones/phantasms, and HP makes no difference ranger drakes have 40k+ HP and they still get chewed up in a couple of seconds.

That crystal is a spvp/dueling mechanic that will screw over mesmer in large scale WvW and PvE.

Ah ok, makes a lot of sense now.

And yes, that’s a big problem, but as long as the devs are stuck in this outdated “We must push sPvP zomg because l33t esp0rts!”-mindset, they’ll never get a serious MMO-balance out of GW2.
It’s sadly a game-wide issue (as most of PvE is based on mass-combat, too).

At some point I hope sPvP dies off enough (sorry sPvPers, this is one of those triage cases from my perspective :P ) that they can black-tag it and start working on actually balancing things for WvW or PvE combat instead of sPvP-combat-only.

StickerHappy.8052:

Zenith.7301:

Carighan.6758:

Caelus.7139:

Please just take out the cleavable f5 mechanic…This mechanic makes us cornered as roaming/dueling classes since it’ll obviously be useless in WvW AoE spams…

In the list of weird language abominations MMOs create, “cleavable f5 mechanic” is a new high. What do you even mean by it? I can apply the rewind to 3 friendly targets in front of me?

In this game, melee “cleave” by default. So those zerg traits/20 man guilds? The moment you shatter all those aoe death zones+ autoattack cleaves will kill it immediately.

Look at what happens to clones/phantasms, and HP makes no difference ranger drakes have 40k+ HP and they still get chewed up in a couple of seconds.

That crystal is a spvp/dueling mechanic that will screw over mesmer in large scale WvW and PvE.

Again the main point is until now we are speculating because of the lack of info, who knows how many hp will the crystal have? will it be immune to condis? crits? Which imo should’ve been addressed early on that presentation.

Makes no difference. The amount of hp needed for the crystal to survive a 10+ man zerg or PvE death zones would be so high that it would make the crystal unkillable as a strategy in a 1v1/small scale scenario.

Turrets from engineers have condi crit immunity and they’re still trash in WvW and PvE because they still die immediately.

The bottom line is that they spent the whole mesmer presentation explaining how they would nerfed anything cool, then presented a guardian specialization that looked like it was designed by a 12 year old that cheats at hide and seek. IE overpowered without subtlety or apology.

I’ve already started trying to learn other classes. When we see Thief specialization, mark my words, we will all know that mesmer is dead as anything except a gimmicks.

I think the biggest issue with Mesmers is that you have to have to put twice as much effort into it to get the same dps as other classes with a lower skill threshold. Higher skill requirement isn’t actually rewarded, but you need it keep up with the other classes. Anet have created a class that is difficult to balance and therefore the class tends to get the short end of the stick.

Most skills are too conditional to get the full potential from the class. Look at the new specializations, you get great interrupt traits, but interrupts are are actually hard to pull off in any reliable way. You can die in PvP without pulling off a single interrupt.

Sebrent.3625:

I think their balance team might want to put a shorter leash elsewhere though.

If they even have one?

League of Legends has a set of champion designers and a separate Live Balance team. I know that ANet thinks about balance the same way that LoL does, because of the language they use, but I think they’ve failed to recognise how important it is that the folks making balance decisions are not the folks doing the designs.

O M G what am I reading here?!
The crystal being destroyed in WvW fights? Yeah, sure I’m going to place my crystalon the points where the meele trains will collide. Made me laugh hard! Skillful play includes positioning. This skill will be a HUGE buff to all mesmers playing skillful. In wvw it’s not that hard to survive as a glascanon mesmer when your positioning is good and your stealth abilities are well timed. Always remember that you are a CASTER. (Backline or Caster-Killer). With good positioning your little crystal will most likely not even be noticed.

Next point: Robert is doing a fantastic job with our class! The way we will be able to combine our skills (like Tides of Time with iLeap) is exactly what we need. More would be even cooler but well he cannot redesign everything.
Wells will be a really cool thing to use with “Into the Void” but it seems that everyone here forgot about that spell^^.
Skillful play means also to time your skills. I’d like to quote Chaos’ forum signature here:“Skill isn’t in knowing how, its in knowing when”. Your Skills will be dependend on timing and this is what skillful play is all about. If timed well we can pull the enemy into the well when it is about to burst.

And again to all those F5 haters: We do not know enough to hate it yet. Keep that for later

Me Games Ma.8426:

O M G what am I reading here?!
The crystal being destroyed in WvW fights? Yeah, sure I’m going to place my crystalon the points where the meele trains will collide. Made me laugh hard! Skillful play includes positioning. This skill will be a HUGE buff to all mesmers playing skillful. In wvw it’s not that hard to survive as a glascanon mesmer when your positioning is good and your stealth abilities are well timed. Always remember that you are a CASTER. (Backline or Caster-Killer). With good positioning your little crystal will most likely not even be noticed.

Next point: Robert is doing a fantastic job with our class! The way we will be able to combine our skills (like Tides of Time with iLeap) is exactly what we need. More would be even cooler but well he cannot redesign everything.
Wells will be a really cool thing to use with “Into the Void” but it seems that everyone here forgot about that spell^^.
Skillful play means also to time your skills. I’d like to quote Chaos’ forum signature here:“Skill isn’t in knowing how, its in knowing when”. Your Skills will be dependend on timing and this is what skillful play is all about. If timed well we can pull the enemy into the well when it is about to burst.

And again to all those F5 haters: We do not know enough to hate it yet. Keep that for later

I really hope you are right.

However, I will stick to my believes of

1. they show us the other class specialization
2. we get a full and detail presentation on our class specialization
3. we test it for ourselves and against other class and give out our own verdict

Cause making speculations over what they wrote / our skills and specialization the little we have seen might not present itself well on screen and game play. But what I have seen of the guardian and thinking about how that will work in all game type is way superior to what am reading of our class.

Guardian plays might not like the idea of a longbow, but it the application of it that will bring them around.

Vague Memory.2817:

I think the biggest issue with Mesmers is that you have to have to put twice as much effort into it to get the same dps as other classes with a lower skill threshold. Higher skill requirement isn’t actually rewarded, but you need it keep up with the other classes. Anet have created a class that is difficult to balance and therefore the class tends to get the short end of the stick.

Most skills are too conditional to get the full potential from the class. Look at the new specializations, you get great interrupt traits, but interrupts are are actually hard to pull off in any reliable way. You can die in PvP without pulling off a single interrupt.

The thing is that they say they want a class with a high skill cap, but they really don’t design that. What they design is a class with a high skill FLOOR and make sure the cap isn’t any higher than any other class. If they were serious about this class, they would make mesmer skills theoretically possible to just wreck EVERYTHING and then buff base mechanics to be in line with other classes in terms of DPS.

Of course, that’s just in PvP, in PvE/WvW, they just need to buff the health of clones/phantasm to be much much higher. Which, I thought they could adjust things like numbers independently through different modes, don’t know why they don’t do that.

Maybe it’s just me, but I’m not seeing a lot to complain about right now. I’ll patiently wait to see how things turn out.

F5 looks like it’s going to be extremely rewarding to those who use it skillfully. We’re also going to see a heck of a lot of synergy with our shatter traits. This is unprecedented for our class. I’m very happy with the direction of Mesmer right now.

Chronomancer is just the icing on the cake, as we see a lot of strong improvements even without the specialization.

Me Games Ma.8426:

O M G what am I reading here?!
The crystal being destroyed in WvW fights? Yeah, sure I’m going to place my crystalon the points where the meele trains will collide. Made me laugh hard! Skillful play includes positioning. This skill will be a HUGE buff to all mesmers playing skillful. In wvw it’s not that hard to survive as a glascanon mesmer when your positioning is good and your stealth abilities are well timed. Always remember that you are a CASTER. (Backline or Caster-Killer). With good positioning your little crystal will most likely not even be noticed.

Next point: Robert is doing a fantastic job with our class! The way we will be able to combine our skills (like Tides of Time with iLeap) is exactly what we need. More would be even cooler but well he cannot redesign everything.
Wells will be a really cool thing to use with “Into the Void” but it seems that everyone here forgot about that spell^^.
Skillful play means also to time your skills. I’d like to quote Chaos’ forum signature here:“Skill isn’t in knowing how, its in knowing when”. Your Skills will be dependend on timing and this is what skillful play is all about. If timed well we can pull the enemy into the well when it is about to burst.

And again to all those F5 haters: We do not know enough to hate it yet. Keep that for later

Did they mention what range you have to be in to be able to recall?

StickerHappy.8052:

Me Games Ma.8426:

O M G what am I reading here?!
The crystal being destroyed in WvW fights? Yeah, sure I’m going to place my crystalon the points where the meele trains will collide. Made me laugh hard! Skillful play includes positioning. This skill will be a HUGE buff to all mesmers playing skillful. In wvw it’s not that hard to survive as a glascanon mesmer when your positioning is good and your stealth abilities are well timed. Always remember that you are a CASTER. (Backline or Caster-Killer). With good positioning your little crystal will most likely not even be noticed.

Next point: Robert is doing a fantastic job with our class! The way we will be able to combine our skills (like Tides of Time with iLeap) is exactly what we need. More would be even cooler but well he cannot redesign everything.
Wells will be a really cool thing to use with “Into the Void” but it seems that everyone here forgot about that spell^^.
Skillful play means also to time your skills. I’d like to quote Chaos’ forum signature here:“Skill isn’t in knowing how, its in knowing when”. Your Skills will be dependend on timing and this is what skillful play is all about. If timed well we can pull the enemy into the well when it is about to burst.

And again to all those F5 haters: We do not know enough to hate it yet. Keep that for later

Did they mention what range you have to be in to be able to recall?

If its portal range, that would be hilarious. Probably wont work well though, just wishful thinking.

Hopefully the duration and destructible are enough limitations on it.

Are they scared we’re going to jump out of a tower/keep … fight people … and then when about to get downed use it to get back into the tower/keep ?

… because Elementalist #2 downed already has that happening plenty without having to worry about doing it before being downed … makes me jealous :-p

Also, we only have ~6 seconds before snapping back to the crystal location anyway. Exactly how far can you get in that time without warping away?

tobascodagama.2961:

Also, we only have ~6 seconds before snapping back to the crystal location anyway. Exactly how far can you get in that time without warping away?

Funny when watching the stream, I remember our skills get counterplay, I wonder what counterplay the other elite specs get…

keenlam.4753:

StickerHappy.8052:

Me Games Ma.8426:

O M G what am I reading here?!
The crystal being destroyed in WvW fights? Yeah, sure I’m going to place my crystalon the points where the meele trains will collide. Made me laugh hard! Skillful play includes positioning. This skill will be a HUGE buff to all mesmers playing skillful. In wvw it’s not that hard to survive as a glascanon mesmer when your positioning is good and your stealth abilities are well timed. Always remember that you are a CASTER. (Backline or Caster-Killer). With good positioning your little crystal will most likely not even be noticed.

Next point: Robert is doing a fantastic job with our class! The way we will be able to combine our skills (like Tides of Time with iLeap) is exactly what we need. More would be even cooler but well he cannot redesign everything.
Wells will be a really cool thing to use with “Into the Void” but it seems that everyone here forgot about that spell^^.
Skillful play means also to time your skills. I’d like to quote Chaos’ forum signature here:“Skill isn’t in knowing how, its in knowing when”. Your Skills will be dependend on timing and this is what skillful play is all about. If timed well we can pull the enemy into the well when it is about to burst.

And again to all those F5 haters: We do not know enough to hate it yet. Keep that for later

Did they mention what range you have to be in to be able to recall?

If its portal range, that would be hilarious. Probably wont work well though, just wishful thinking.

5000. Well that sounds like a portal to me

Me Games Ma.8426:

keenlam.4753:

StickerHappy.8052:

Me Games Ma.8426:

O M G what am I reading here?!
The crystal being destroyed in WvW fights? Yeah, sure I’m going to place my crystalon the points where the meele trains will collide. Made me laugh hard! Skillful play includes positioning. This skill will be a HUGE buff to all mesmers playing skillful. In wvw it’s not that hard to survive as a glascanon mesmer when your positioning is good and your stealth abilities are well timed. Always remember that you are a CASTER. (Backline or Caster-Killer). With good positioning your little crystal will most likely not even be noticed.

Next point: Robert is doing a fantastic job with our class! The way we will be able to combine our skills (like Tides of Time with iLeap) is exactly what we need. More would be even cooler but well he cannot redesign everything.
Wells will be a really cool thing to use with “Into the Void” but it seems that everyone here forgot about that spell^^.
Skillful play means also to time your skills. I’d like to quote Chaos’ forum signature here:“Skill isn’t in knowing how, its in knowing when”. Your Skills will be dependend on timing and this is what skillful play is all about. If timed well we can pull the enemy into the well when it is about to burst.

And again to all those F5 haters: We do not know enough to hate it yet. Keep that for later

Did they mention what range you have to be in to be able to recall?

If its portal range, that would be hilarious. Probably wont work well though, just wishful thinking.

5000. Well that sounds like a portal to me

hmm. if you only have 6 seconds to recall, how can i put in a very long range?

Team up with another mesmer and use their portal … there’s one option.

Mesmer portal bomb:

• One mesmer drops portal … runs to drop exit.
• Other mesmers summon illusions on some random mob and F5 shatter
• Mesmer drops exit.
• Other mesmers portal in and unleash chaos
• Other mesmers teleport back to safety via F5 shatter.

Giggle.

Sebrent.3625:

Team up with another mesmer and use their portal … there’s one option.

Mesmer portal bomb:

• One mesmer drops portal … runs to drop exit.
• Other mesmers summon illusions on some random mob and F5 shatter
• Mesmer drops exit.
• Other mesmers portal in and unleash chaos
• Other mesmers teleport back to safety via F5 shatter.

Giggle.

Interesting idea, but this requires work, and another teammate who needs to do specific stuff, I was more in talking bout solo q pvp pugs.

StickerHappy.8052:

Sebrent.3625:

Team up with another mesmer and use their portal … there’s one option.

Mesmer portal bomb:

• One mesmer drops portal … runs to drop exit.
• Other mesmers summon illusions on some random mob and F5 shatter
• Mesmer drops exit.
• Other mesmers portal in and unleash chaos
• Other mesmers teleport back to safety via F5 shatter.

Giggle.

Interesting idea, but this requires work, and another teammate who needs to do specific stuff, I was more in talking bout solo q pvp pugs.

Portal requires work and also isn’t “viable” in solo q. There’s some crazy strong stuff you can do with the F5 shatter. On the flip side, I’m glad that it has counter play to it. How much counterplay, we don’t know exactly yet.

Directed at the general forum: speculation speculation speculation. It’s driving you Mesmers crazy! You know what they say about those who “assume”.

StickerHappy.8052:

Me Games Ma.8426:

keenlam.4753:

StickerHappy.8052:

Me Games Ma.8426:

O M G what am I reading here?!
The crystal being destroyed in WvW fights? Yeah, sure I’m going to place my crystalon the points where the meele trains will collide. Made me laugh hard! Skillful play includes positioning. This skill will be a HUGE buff to all mesmers playing skillful. In wvw it’s not that hard to survive as a glascanon mesmer when your positioning is good and your stealth abilities are well timed. Always remember that you are a CASTER. (Backline or Caster-Killer). With good positioning your little crystal will most likely not even be noticed.

Next point: Robert is doing a fantastic job with our class! The way we will be able to combine our skills (like Tides of Time with iLeap) is exactly what we need. More would be even cooler but well he cannot redesign everything.
Wells will be a really cool thing to use with “Into the Void” but it seems that everyone here forgot about that spell^^.
Skillful play means also to time your skills. I’d like to quote Chaos’ forum signature here:“Skill isn’t in knowing how, its in knowing when”. Your Skills will be dependend on timing and this is what skillful play is all about. If timed well we can pull the enemy into the well when it is about to burst.

And again to all those F5 haters: We do not know enough to hate it yet. Keep that for later

Did they mention what range you have to be in to be able to recall?

If its portal range, that would be hilarious. Probably wont work well though, just wishful thinking.

5000. Well that sounds like a portal to me

hmm. if you only have 6 seconds to recall, how can i put in a very long range?

Who said it only lasts 6 seconds? It’s a shatter. That means that iPersona does most likely work with that. The tooltips sais it lasts 3seconds. I believe that it stacks duration as well as diversion does so that you can end up with 12s with 3 illusions shattered.

Me Games Ma.8426:

StickerHappy.8052:

Me Games Ma.8426:

keenlam.4753:

StickerHappy.8052:

Me Games Ma.8426:

O M G what am I reading here?!
The crystal being destroyed in WvW fights? Yeah, sure I’m going to place my crystalon the points where the meele trains will collide. Made me laugh hard! Skillful play includes positioning. This skill will be a HUGE buff to all mesmers playing skillful. In wvw it’s not that hard to survive as a glascanon mesmer when your positioning is good and your stealth abilities are well timed. Always remember that you are a CASTER. (Backline or Caster-Killer). With good positioning your little crystal will most likely not even be noticed.

Next point: Robert is doing a fantastic job with our class! The way we will be able to combine our skills (like Tides of Time with iLeap) is exactly what we need. More would be even cooler but well he cannot redesign everything.
Wells will be a really cool thing to use with “Into the Void” but it seems that everyone here forgot about that spell^^.
Skillful play means also to time your skills. I’d like to quote Chaos’ forum signature here:“Skill isn’t in knowing how, its in knowing when”. Your Skills will be dependend on timing and this is what skillful play is all about. If timed well we can pull the enemy into the well when it is about to burst.

And again to all those F5 haters: We do not know enough to hate it yet. Keep that for later

Did they mention what range you have to be in to be able to recall?

If its portal range, that would be hilarious. Probably wont work well though, just wishful thinking.

5000. Well that sounds like a portal to me

hmm. if you only have 6 seconds to recall, how can i put in a very long range?

Who said it only lasts 6 seconds? It’s a shatter. That means that iPersona does most likely work with that. The tooltips sais it lasts 3seconds. I believe that it stacks duration as well as diversion does so that you can end up with 12s with 3 illusions shattered.

Here.

Also, we only have ~6 seconds before snapping back to the crystal location anyway. Exactly how far can you get in that time without warping away?

StickerHappy.8052:

Me Games Ma.8426:

O M G what am I reading here?!
The crystal being destroyed in WvW fights? Yeah, sure I’m going to place my crystalon the points where the meele trains will collide. Made me laugh hard! Skillful play includes positioning. This skill will be a HUGE buff to all mesmers playing skillful. In wvw it’s not that hard to survive as a glascanon mesmer when your positioning is good and your stealth abilities are well timed. Always remember that you are a CASTER. (Backline or Caster-Killer). With good positioning your little crystal will most likely not even be noticed.

Next point: Robert is doing a fantastic job with our class! The way we will be able to combine our skills (like Tides of Time with iLeap) is exactly what we need. More would be even cooler but well he cannot redesign everything.
Wells will be a really cool thing to use with “Into the Void” but it seems that everyone here forgot about that spell^^.
Skillful play means also to time your skills. I’d like to quote Chaos’ forum signature here:“Skill isn’t in knowing how, its in knowing when”. Your Skills will be dependend on timing and this is what skillful play is all about. If timed well we can pull the enemy into the well when it is about to burst.

And again to all those F5 haters: We do not know enough to hate it yet. Keep that for later

Did they mention what range you have to be in to be able to recall?

Skill tab said 5000 units. That said keep in mind that to use f5 you have to shatter a clone. The more clones the longer it’ll last. So that means you have to summon your clones on something. If not your enemy, then an environmental feature.

This also means if you want to set up ahead of time you’ll need to take the time and utilize skill use and/or DE dodges.