Guild Wars 2

Since WE all know better than ANet when it comes to Mesmer changes,() let’s do some real theory crafting.

First, I am not implying that this change should be made, but hoping for a interesting discussion on how Mesmer would play differently? So community, I put it before you.

What if Deceptive Evasions never existed? What would be different?

As a result, would our shatters be more powerful? Or would all the recharges be reduced?

Would our weapon damage be a little higher or just the clone generating skills be on a lower cooldown?

September 9th 2014 Patch Notes

• 4 Deep Master Dueling Trait, Mesmer now produces clones on dodge roll.

What trait would replace it? All classes have at least 1 on dodge trait …..

Faster clone generation I’m guessing.

I think reducing recharges wouldn’t help, we need more of the resource not quicker ways to spend it.

I really like the concept of being able to produce a clone without needing to waste a skill to do it… Dodge-shatters are so clutch!

I could see some alternatives though.

Arcane Transference -Manipulation // Instant- Convert up to 3 boons into clones. 15s CD.

Splitting Images – Master Chaos Tree – Create a clone every time you take up 20% or more damage (5s ICD)

Scepter Clones now produce clones at the end of their attack chain

Shatters Reworked into Hexes, still cost clones. Hexes can be cleansed if there are no other conditions present 3s duration per clone.

F1 – Hex of Suffering: Opponent does [Halting Strikeish] damage to themself for each attack.

F2 – Hex of Bedlam: Opponent radiates AoE Confusion for each attack.

F3 – Hex of Betrayal: Opponent is can be targetted by their allies’ attacks.

F4 – Hex of Misdirection: All incoming attacks miss target Mesmer. (1s per clone. Distortion, essentially.)

Don’t you spout “but.. balance!” at me!

Chaos Archangel.5071:

I think reducing recharges wouldn’t help, we need more of the resource not quicker ways to spend it.

I really like the concept of being able to produce a clone without needing to waste a skill to do it… Dodge-shatters are so clutch!

I could see some alternatives though.

Arcane Transference -Manipulation // Instant- Convert up to 3 boons into clones. 15s CD.

Splitting Images – Master Chaos Tree – Create a clone every time you take up 20% or more damage (5s ICD)

Scepter Clones now produce clones at the end of their attack chain

---

Shatters Reworked into Hexes, still cost clones. Hexes can be cleansed if there are no other conditions present 3s duration per clone.

F1 – Hex of Suffering: Opponent does [Halting Strikeish] damage to themself for each attack.

F2 – Hex of Bedlam: Opponent radiates AoE Confusion for each attack.

F3 – Hex of Betrayal: Opponent is can be targetted by their allies’ attacks.

F4 – Hex of Misdirection: All incoming attacks miss target Mesmer. (1s per clone. Distortion, essentially.)

Don’t you spout “but.. balance!” at me!

I have no problem with balancing as long as gw1 domination Mesmer comes back

What trait would replace it? All classes have at least 1 on dodge trait …..

Your correct. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dodging

I think it could be something like Ele’s or necros.. apply 1s daze to nearby foes (180 radius) or apply 2s confusion(vulnerability, etc)

1 sec daze on dodge.. would be fun.

By removing DE, we’re not using our shatters as often. So I wonder if we would have a little bit larger base health pool. Or better healing multiplier/ healing skills would be improved. Clones themselves might have more health. Since they would need to stay around longer.

Would it give us more build variety? Mirror would probably be used more.

This wouldn’t be considered OP, and would be hotapatched in immediately.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yR5iFRRH5SI

Actually, I was hoping when ANet would have changed Scepter so it would spit out clones that fast. It could be the weapon used in place of DE. They just set it up that it wouldn’t overwrite any existing illusions. (No on death traits being triggered.) Once you hit your Max 3, scepter would just do more damage instead of producing clones.

Looking over the other professions “on dodge” traits. None of them directly affect the class mechanic like the Mesmer’s.

Guardian – Selfless Daring (Heals nearby allies)
Warrior- Reckless Dodge (Damage foes)
Engineer – Evasive Powder Keg (Creates a bomb)
Ranger – Companion’s Defense (Give protection)
Ranger – Evasive Purity (Remove blind and poison)
Thief – Expeditious Dodger (Gain swiftness)
Thief – Feline Grace (Gain endurance)
Thief – Fleet of Foot (Remove cripple and weakness)
Thief – Power of Inertia (Gain might)
Thief – Uncatchable (Leave caltrops behind)
Elementalist – Evasive Arcana (Create an attunement-based spell)
Elementalist – Stop, Drop, and Roll (Remove burning and chilled)
Mesmer – Deceptive Evasion (Create a clone)
Necromancer – Mark of Evasion (Leave a Mark of Blood)

Should DE ever been?

Chaos Archangel.5071:

I think reducing recharges wouldn’t help, we need more of the resource not quicker ways to spend it.

I really like the concept of being able to produce a clone without needing to waste a skill to do it… Dodge-shatters are so clutch!

I could see some alternatives though.

Arcane Transference -Manipulation // Instant- Convert up to 3 boons into clones. 15s CD.

Splitting Images – Master Chaos Tree – Create a clone every time you take up 20% or more damage (5s ICD)

Scepter Clones now produce clones at the end of their attack chain

---

Shatters Reworked into Hexes, still cost clones. Hexes can be cleansed if there are no other conditions present 3s duration per clone.

F1 – Hex of Suffering: Opponent does [Halting Strikeish] damage to themself for each attack.

F2 – Hex of Bedlam: Opponent radiates AoE Confusion for each attack.

F3 – Hex of Betrayal: Opponent is can be targetted by their allies’ attacks.

F4 – Hex of Misdirection: All incoming attacks miss target Mesmer. (1s per clone. Distortion, essentially.)

Don’t you spout “but.. balance!” at me!

I want this so bad…

Hey Anet! Why not try this next feature patch?

SlimChance.6593:

Looking over the other professions “on dodge” traits. None of them directly affect the class mechanic like the Mesmer’s.

Guardian – Selfless Daring (Heals nearby allies)
Warrior- Reckless Dodge (Damage foes)
Engineer – Evasive Powder Keg (Creates a bomb)
Ranger – Companion’s Defense (Give protection)
Ranger – Evasive Purity (Remove blind and poison)
Thief – Expeditious Dodger (Gain swiftness)
Thief – Feline Grace (Gain endurance)
Thief – Fleet of Foot (Remove cripple and weakness)
Thief – Power of Inertia (Gain might)
Thief – Uncatchable (Leave caltrops behind)
Elementalist – Evasive Arcana (Create an attunement-based spell)
Elementalist – Stop, Drop, and Roll (Remove burning and chilled)
Mesmer – Deceptive Evasion (Create a clone)
Necromancer – Mark of Evasion (Leave a Mark of Blood)

Should DE ever been?

The next thing you need to be pointing out is all our traits that only grant bonuses per clones that exist. Including healing from a healing signit.

Without clones a Mesmer is dead in the water and has nothing. All those other classes continue to function without needing to have things “up”.

Ross Biddle.2367:

SlimChance.6593:

Looking over the other professions “on dodge” traits. None of them directly affect the class mechanic like the Mesmer’s.

Guardian – Selfless Daring (Heals nearby allies)
Warrior- Reckless Dodge (Damage foes)
Engineer – Evasive Powder Keg (Creates a bomb)
Ranger – Companion’s Defense (Give protection)
Ranger – Evasive Purity (Remove blind and poison)
Thief – Expeditious Dodger (Gain swiftness)
Thief – Feline Grace (Gain endurance)
Thief – Fleet of Foot (Remove cripple and weakness)
Thief – Power of Inertia (Gain might)
Thief – Uncatchable (Leave caltrops behind)
Elementalist – Evasive Arcana (Create an attunement-based spell)
Elementalist – Stop, Drop, and Roll (Remove burning and chilled)
Mesmer – Deceptive Evasion (Create a clone)
Necromancer – Mark of Evasion (Leave a Mark of Blood)

Should DE ever been?

The next thing you need to be pointing out is all our traits that only grant bonuses per clones that exist. Including healing from a healing signit.

Without clones a Mesmer is dead in the water and has nothing. All those other classes continue to function without needing to have things “up”.

Isn’t that kinda the point though? DE is almost incomparably more mandatory and essential to basically every mesmer build than those other traits are to those classes. Those other class traits are perks, DE is a cornerstone. That is what he is pointing out I think (or should be :P ).

Put another way, none of the other classes need those traits to function properly. I think most mesmers would agree we need DE to function properly. I think Anet said some stuff a while back about play how you want yada yada?

DE should just be baseline and they can nerf other things imo.

Edit: Ok before someone else says it ya phantasm build don’t need DE, but do we really need to go there?

Isn’t that kinda the point though? DE is almost incomparably more mandatory and essential to basically every mesmer build than those other traits are to those classes. Those other class traits are perks, DE is a cornerstone.

That IS my point exactly. If Warrior’s on dodge trait granted them Adrenaline, would every Warrior build have it?

No other Mesmer trait has such a dramatic affect on our performance. And it just makes sense, our shatter’s require clones and DE gives us “on-demand” clone generation. Right now, the Mesmer is at or near the bottom of the meta. Sure we’re still good at 1v1, but largely because of DE. In fact, if it wasn’t for DE, we’d have even a harder time.

Remember back in beta and early on release, DE was a minor adept trait. You could grab it for 5 points. It was there so that it could be easily accessed. But for some reason ANet bumped it up, thinking it was too powerful for adept and bumped it up to Major Master. I think they hoped that it would add more build variety. But we know how that turned out.

That’s kind of the point of the thread? If DE wasn’t around and our shatters were still as they are. Would there truly be different builds? Has DE held us back, because its just TOO good?

What if we had more options for “on dodge”?

What if in Domination there was a “add vulnerability” on dodge trait.
What if in Dueling there was a “apply daze” on dodge trait.
What if in Chaos there was a “apply quickness” on dodge trait. (Remember fast casting?)
What if Inspiration had a “apply confusion or regeneration” on dodge trait.
What if DE were moved to Illusions? or gone altogether?

(If these were all available, there would have to be a restriction that they couldn’t stack. But just dreaming here anyway.)

Would there be more build variety?
I know I’d love the “apply daze” on dodge. It’d feel more like GW1 Mesmer.
Having quickness on dodge would make Mantra’s more attractive.

SlimChance.6593:

Looking over the other professions “on dodge” traits. None of them directly affect the class mechanic like the Mesmer’s.

Guardian – Selfless Daring (Heals nearby allies)
Warrior- Reckless Dodge (Damage foes)
Engineer – Evasive Powder Keg (Creates a bomb)
Ranger – Companion’s Defense (Give protection)
Ranger – Evasive Purity (Remove blind and poison)
Thief – Expeditious Dodger (Gain swiftness)
Thief – Feline Grace (Gain endurance)
Thief – Fleet of Foot (Remove cripple and weakness)
Thief – Power of Inertia (Gain might)
Thief – Uncatchable (Leave caltrops behind)
Elementalist – Evasive Arcana (Create an attunement-based spell)
Elementalist – Stop, Drop, and Roll (Remove burning and chilled)
Mesmer – Deceptive Evasion (Create a clone)
Necromancer – Mark of Evasion (Leave a Mark of Blood)

Should DE ever been?

I think the extra dodge on thief affect the mechanic,and the elems EA is affecting aswell.

Ele’s EA just allows them to do more damage based on their attunement. It doesn’t enhance or improve their attunement.

For Thieves, its just makes them stronger or kite better. It doesn’t give them more initiative.

If Warriors gained adrenaline on dodge, Thieves gain initiative on dodge or Necro’s gain Lifeforce on dodge, then they would be similiar to Mesmer’s.

After thinking this over and over in my head. Since the combat in this game is so quick and fast paced, then the obvious conclusion is:

Our shatters are too weak. They are only truly effective with a Max 3 clones and thus our reliance on DE to quickly generate clones to keep up with the pace of the game.

So with that in mind, What If…..

Mind Wreck damage was scaled differently. 1 clone did 50% damage, 2 clones does 80% damage, 3 clones do 100%,

Cry of Frustration does 6s confusion no matter how many clones.

Diversion stays the same 1sec daze for each clone. (If they all shatter at the same time, only 1sec daze is applied. Daze’s don’t stack.)

Distortion stays the same 1s evade for each clone.

Cooldowns stay the same.

SlimChance.6593:

Mind Wreck damage was scaled differently. 1 clone did 50% damage, 2 clones does 80% damage, 3 clones do 100%

Mind Wrack already works like this – its why Illusionary Persona is so powerful with 1 clone as it turns a single clone shatter with the mesmer into a shatter almost equivalent to the untraited 3 clone. IP copies the clone damage that each clone would provide – so it makes you into a copy of the single clone shatter and it independently does a single clone shatter. It does not make the shatter equivalent to a 2 clone shatter it makes you into 2x a single clone shatter.

Oops, thought I had an original thought there. That’s probably where I got the idea.