Guild Wars 2

And in high level content? DPS or utility? Why are they one of the three top wanted classes for these kind of things?

DPS and utility. I would not sacrifice one of the other. I have tried going full support, but it’s only really helpful when with low level/low experience players. You basically do the most damage you can while time warping during hard spots and using your utility skills as… well… utility. Feedback, Null Field, etc when necessary. Make use of your skills when they are needed and continue to deepz.

They are one of the top wanted because they have massive utility without sacrificing dps.

Portals, timewarps and reflections.
Mesmer DPS is not that great (horrible tbh) compared to most other classes, they have pretty much no offensive support.
The condition removing is not bad, but in terms of “defensive support”/damage output reflections (wardens feedback, feedback) really shine.
Timewarp started to suck a bit after the recent 50% nerf without anything to compensate for it.

the chaos maestro boon support thread gives a great set of options. with elements of those builds, mesmers function a lot like guardians…you can still deal moderate-good damage, tank, heal, and give every boon in the game (no stability) to your party on a fairly regular basis. you can also keep up lots of regen, might, vigor and fury especially on meleers. with another source of group might in the party it’s easy to get to 25 stacks. since I started playing that style, I have noticed people in groups marveling at their own (furied and mighted) dps. all that other utility is also there.

others are right that boosting party survivability is only necessary in mediocre-bad groups…even in a good group if your heals/protection/aegis can make a difference between staying on melee for dps, or going ranged for survival, you are effectively boosting group dps.

What Esplen said.

Full DPS is also good, but the combination of DPS and massive utility is what makes mesmers outstanding in dungeons. One mesmer and one guardian or engi (or engi + guardian for that matter) that know what they are doing in the same group can make any dungeon a joke.

Gaiawolf.8261:

What Esplen said.

Full DPS is also good, but the combination of DPS and massive utility is what makes mesmers outstanding in dungeons. One mesmer and one guardian or engi (or engi + guardian for that matter) that know what they are doing in the same group can make any dungeon a joke.

Engies in a game with a real aggro system would break it. They have so much mitigation that it’d be like dodge-tanking in WoW, but as an actual concept that doesn’t rely on rng. Glad they have a kittenty aggro system, since it actually works for this game and doesn’t need to be tweaked.

Also if you’re running a hybrid build with good toughness, against many dungeon bosses you can use your illusions to tank some of the hits (A.I. often prefers to attack targets with high armor and your illusions have the same armor amount you do). Since you can spawn more illusions nearly constantly this can really help with tanking some bosses while most of your spec is still directed at doing damage and offering your utilities.

There are many spots in dungeons when a Mesmer with portal saves the groups time – Fractal swamp, CoF wing 1 to get past the boulders, Fractal crazy Asura to help new people get past the electrified stairs, etc.

Agony.3542:

Portals, timewarps and reflections.
Mesmer DPS is not that great (horrible tbh) compared to most other classes, they have pretty much no offensive support.
The condition removing is not bad, but in terms of “defensive support”/damage output reflections (wardens feedback, feedback) really shine.
Timewarp started to suck a bit after the recent 50% nerf without anything to compensate for it.

^This.

Esplen.3940:

Engies in a game with a real aggro system would break it. They have so much mitigation that it’d be like dodge-tanking in WoW, but as an actual concept that doesn’t rely on rng. Glad they have a kittenty aggro system, since it actually works for this game and doesn’t need to be tweaked.

I’ve been away from the game a while, did I miss out on something? Or have I just not figured it out yet?

Only “insane” thing I remember doing was being able to perma-net a few bosses.

Haette.2701:

I’ve been away from the game a while, did I miss out on something? Or have I just not figured it out yet?

Only “insane” thing I remember doing was being able to perma-net a few bosses.

Actually, Engis are much better nowadays than most players give em credit. They can deal very high ranged damage with their grenades and have access to a lot of support, especially group healing/cleansing. (And they’re no slouch in PvP either, but that’s for another thread)

The reason I recently rolled a Mesmer is because I main an Engi and was looking for another profession that played similarly: dynamic, multiple rolls (support & damage), build versatility.

i used to ask the same question.
Then i tried phantasm build ._.

Seras.5702:

Actually, Engis are much better nowadays than most players give em credit. They can deal very high ranged damage with their grenades and have access to a lot of support, especially group healing/cleansing. (And they’re no slouch in PvP either, but that’s for another thread)

Engineer was my original main so I’ve always tended to assume people who say they’re bad/meh are simply unlucky. I always had a good time in dungeons. I really should go play that one again.

The primary role of the mesmer is utility. If you just want dps you would take another warrior, but mesmer offers more utility. Most important Skills tu use are Feedback, Timewarp and Signet of Inspiration. Portal in certain places (CoF p1, Swamp fractal) and other skills, when needed.
Besides that you want to do as much damage as you can, so you want to take a 20/20/0/20/10 trait layout (or maybe 10/30/0/20/10) with Warden’s Feedback for the extra reflection. Weapons are Sword/Focus & …/Sword (using the same mainhand in both sets), GS instead of the offhand when you need a ranged weapon.

Condition removal is usually the role of the guardian, but if you’re running with Pugs you may have to use some kind of condition removal yourself instead of relying on random people.

bobross.5034:

the chaos maestro boon support thread gives a great set of options. with elements of those builds, mesmers function a lot like guardians…you can still deal moderate-good damage, tank, heal, and give every boon in the game (no stability) to your party on a fairly regular basis. you can also keep up lots of regen, might, vigor and fury especially on meleers. with another source of group might in the party it’s easy to get to 25 stacks. since I started playing that style, I have noticed people in groups marveling at their own (furied and mighted) dps. all that other utility is also there.

others are right that boosting party survivability is only necessary in mediocre-bad groups…even in a good group if your heals/protection/aegis can make a difference between staying on melee for dps, or going ranged for survival, you are effectively boosting group dps.

You can probably do similar stuff as a guardian, but sometimes stability is important. Also you usually don’t need to give your party too much might. 3 warriors and 1 guardian do an excellent job at that already. I’ve also tried mantra healing at some point, but stoped using it. It has a long cast time, but it heals for a lot. It’s not bad but simply not needed. The best “tactic” in this game is simply to kill your enemy before he kills you.
I’m not saying, that the chaos maestro is a bad build, in fact it sounds pretty nice. If you run with pugs a lot, just try it and you will probably like it.

But if you’re running in an organized group, this build is for you: http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/79487-buildmy-dps-mesmer-guide-for-organized-dungeon-groups/

Agony.3542:

Mesmer DPS is not that great (horrible tbh) compared to most other classes, they have pretty much no offensive support.

So some testing I did showed that my Mesmer with 3x phantasms up is doing quite a bit of damage, on par with my backstab thief if not higher. And with just 1 phantasm we’re still doing pretty good dps. No phantasms means pretty low DPS, if you run a phantasm build. Not saying my testing is completely accurate but how did you come to this conclusion.

I would say we are good dps with some nice support tricks.

Blood~

Shadow.5694:

bobross.5034:

the chaos maestro boon support thread gives a great set of options. with elements of those builds, mesmers function a lot like guardians…you can still deal moderate-good damage, tank, heal, and give every boon in the game (no stability) to your party on a fairly regular basis. you can also keep up lots of regen, might, vigor and fury especially on meleers. with another source of group might in the party it’s easy to get to 25 stacks. since I started playing that style, I have noticed people in groups marveling at their own (furied and mighted) dps. all that other utility is also there.

others are right that boosting party survivability is only necessary in mediocre-bad groups…even in a good group if your heals/protection/aegis can make a difference between staying on melee for dps, or going ranged for survival, you are effectively boosting group dps.

You can probably do similar stuff as a guardian, but sometimes stability is important. Also you usually don’t need to give your party too much might. 3 warriors and 1 guardian do an excellent job at that already. I’ve also tried mantra healing at some point, but stoped using it. It has a long cast time, but it heals for a lot. It’s not bad but simply not needed. The best “tactic” in this game is simply to kill your enemy before he kills you.
I’m not saying, that the chaos maestro is a bad build, in fact it sounds pretty nice. If you run with pugs a lot, just try it and you will probably like it.

But if you’re running in an organized group, this build is for you: http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/79487-buildmy-dps-mesmer-guide-for-organized-dungeon-groups/

I think what Bobross meant was that the Chaos Maestro gives a lot of good examples for different utility options that the Mesmer has. As for the build itself, Mantra heals and +Healing Power gear are recommended but in no means required. Even with a full set of Zerker gear you can offer a utility (Reflects & nearly every boon in the game at once)

And, if I’m not mistaken, very few other classes can apply boons like we can and still maintain good damage.

Bloodgruve.6038:

Agony.3542:

Mesmer DPS is not that great (horrible tbh) compared to most other classes, they have pretty much no offensive support.

So some testing I did showed that my Mesmer with 3x phantasms up is doing quite a bit of damage, on par with my backstab thief if not higher. And with just 1 phantasm we’re still doing pretty good dps. No phantasms means pretty low DPS, if you run a phantasm build. Not saying my testing is completely accurate but how did you come to this conclusion.

I would say we are good dps with some nice support tricks.

Blood~

First off, I’m not saying phantasms are uselees, I’m just pointing out the things that will impede their damage output in a real enviroment, no training dummies, no non moving targets etc.

Phantasms suffer from a lot of things:
-They get killed by most pbaoe, even with traits/utilities that improve their hp.
-They take a lot of time to set up, a minimum of 12 seconds, and then you have to devote two different weapon sets for summoning them.
-You can’t control where or when they move, this partly goes with my first point, but i also had some of my phantasms get “countered” by enviromental obstructions or bosses moving to much.
-Clones will overwrite one of your phantasms, this might not seem that bad, right? You are just not using clone summoing, right? Well the problem is, that a lot of your utility skills come with free clones, thats awesome, isn’t it? Having to decide wether to kill one of your Phantasms and use one of these often times precious summoing cds or not use iLeap to close up, gs2(if you use it, which you shouldn’t because gs is bad), staff #2 (which is great, no doubt), scepter(…nvmd), sword OH (which you wont use that often anyway, but still).

Now everytime one of your phantasms dies, or fails to deliver a full attack or gets overwritten by a clone your damage suffers a lot. Basically while phantasms deal at least some damage compared to your auto chain, they are not a consistent and reliable source of damage, thus often resulting in not dealing the damage.
I play a phantasm build myself, and at least in the dungeons I’m running I’m find myself rarely in a situation where I have 3 phantasms up, and I’m really spamming my weapon swaps to get as many phantasms as possible.
regards

I thought clones didn’t overwrite phantasms. I’m new to mesmer but I thought I read that. If that is in fact the case, am I supposed to shatter then use Staff#2 so that I can at least get some benefit from my illusion before I overwrite him?

Short and easy answer.

DPS phantasm build is the one wanted everywhere because its strong…

Much more strong than shatter while offering better utilities and with less risk.

I asked the same things for a month until i decided to switch to phantasm and i suddenly got why mesmer is so popular in dungeons

Seras.5702:

I thought clones didn’t overwrite phantasms. I’m new to mesmer but I thought I read that. If that is in fact the case, am I supposed to shatter then use Staff#2 so that I can at least get some benefit from my illusion before I overwrite him?

Clones can only overwrite a 3rd phantasm. If you only have 1-2 phants up, a new clone will overwrite your oldest clone instead.

Gaiawolf.8261:

Seras.5702:

I thought clones didn’t overwrite phantasms. I’m new to mesmer but I thought I read that. If that is in fact the case, am I supposed to shatter then use Staff#2 so that I can at least get some benefit from my illusion before I overwrite him?

Clones can only overwrite a 3rd phantasm. If you only have 1-2 phants up, a new clone will overwrite your oldest clone instead.

So I drop a Phantasm, Clone, Phantasm. Then I pop another Phantasm, it’ll replace the clone?

Seras.5702:

Gaiawolf.8261:

Seras.5702:

I thought clones didn’t overwrite phantasms. I’m new to mesmer but I thought I read that. If that is in fact the case, am I supposed to shatter then use Staff#2 so that I can at least get some benefit from my illusion before I overwrite him?

Clones can only overwrite a 3rd phantasm. If you only have 1-2 phants up, a new clone will overwrite your oldest clone instead.

So I drop a Phantasm, Clone, Phantasm. Then I pop another Phantasm, it’ll replace the clone?

Yes.

However, if you then create a new clone after that, it will replace your oldest Phantasm.

I use this Phantasm build for dungeons/fractals (the build on the first page, not the revised one).

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/OP-Phantasm-Mesmer-Build-Fractal-Dungeon/first