Guild Wars 2

Why are people so intent on making Blinds from BD dodgeable?

If this fixes anything, it would be a minuscule difference.

Why?

Instant Shatters are a matter of Lucky Dodging anyways, Making the blinds not go through dodges will only matter if you manage to random dodge an Instant IP shatter.

The best way to fix this is add an ICD to BD.

Well it would make them feel good about themselves for starters.
As for the icd… Idk how I feel about it. What would be the point? If you’re playing a shatter Mesmer then you wouldn’t be wasting shatters for blinds since you’ll be trying to set up your burst so the shatter cd’s act as an icd for the blinds.

Jace al Thor.6745:

Well it would make them feel good about themselves for starters.
As for the icd… Idk how I feel about it. What would be the point? If you’re playing a shatter Mesmer then you wouldn’t be wasting shatters for blinds since you’ll be trying to set up your burst so the shatter cd’s act as an icd for the blinds.

Mental Anguish with BD MW crits for 2k-3k. I would not call it to be a waster. Also MW is on a 12 second cd so.

Yeah. And any icd that would be put in it would be 10 seconds probably. Which is less than a MW CD. If it’s more than that you push making it worthless imo. A 15-20 second cd on it would be too long and in a team setting a 3 second blind would be cleansed quickly.
That’s why people are wanting it blockable so it can’t go through ageis, dodges, etc.

We already have Cds on that… 10, 25, 38 and 50 if I’m not mistaken and anyone wasting Diversion for a blind is… well… it’s not a sound judgment in my book.
Why put and ICD that would probably be 10CD ANYWAY… Higher than that and it would kill the trait…
But hey if it makes others feel better, why not…

Look at it not as a they will dodge it.

Look at it from a “They’re gonna shatter so I’ll use my invuln state…wait why am I blinded?!”

It shouldn’t go through invulns or evasion frames, sorry but it’s just BS when things do that, like some guardian stuff.

@all

Going through blocks/invulns is the only ones worth fixing.
Dodges tho? Really? I did not know people can predict an instant skill now.

If a Mesmer is standing right on top of you then yeah hard to predict a single instant MW. However, if you’re setting up for a three clone MW then having multiple clones running toward is very predictable AND dodgeable.

Jace al Thor.6745:

If a Mesmer is standing right on top of you then yeah hard to predict a single instant MW. However, if you’re setting up for a three clone MW then having multiple clones running toward is very predictable AND dodgeable.

But people are forgetting, the clones does not have to do anything about it. BD procs ON the mesmer, not on the clones so, if you see the clones running to you, the mesmer prolly is not intending to blind you.

This goes for any shatter for that matter, No tells when it comes to BD, Instant Cast.

Ok so we’re looking at lockdown and S/T GS shatter that will cause major issues with the trait. Double range/mantra tends to stay at a distance until it’s ready for a large burst. Phantasm builds try not to shatter and condi, depending on the build stays out of Melee range as well so again blind isn’t a problem is it?

Jace al Thor.6745:

Ok so we’re looking at lockdown and S/T GS shatter that will cause major issues with the trait. Double range/mantra tends to stay at a distance until it’s ready for a large burst. Phantasm builds try not to shatter and condi, depending on the build stays out of Melee range as well so again blind isn’t a problem is it?

The problem is how do you kill the mesmer in melee range or 240 range before he kills you. Its not the mesmer being in range. Its about granting mesmers addtional survivability on top of ports, invulns, and stealth.

On Top of doing some real good damage.

If the Mesmer is in Melee range GS 2, dodge roll, MW, GS 3 and who cares at that point?

The real deal is simple. BD stops the run-in-and-burst-for-instant-dead-mesmer “mechanic.” Thieves and Warriors are no doubt especially upset that they actually have to play against a Mesmer with BD.

Ithilwen.1529:

The real deal is simple. BD stops the run-in-and-burst-for-instant-dead-mesmer “mechanic.” Thieves and Warriors are no doubt especially upset that they actually have to play against a Mesmer with BD.

Oh I get your point trust me. But The question I was asking, why are people still only fixated on making BD dodgeable, I wouldn’t think this makes a big difference because shatters are instant, so a random dodge or lucky dodge are the only things that “make BD dodgeable” argument be solved.

There are already CDs on shatter skills. What’s the point to put another layer of CDs on the function that is built upon it? I mean no decent mesmer gonna repeatedly shatter in close range to you just to stack some blind duration.

If you put it on short iCD 5-10s, it basically just makes it not affect multiple foes and becomes awkward to use. If you put it on long iCD 15s+. Then the trait is essentially dead. Because mesmers will shatter in range a lot. One shatter in range basically nullifies the trait.

Exciton.8942:

There are already CDs on shatter skills. What’s the point to put another layer of CDs on the function that is built upon it? I mean no decent mesmer gonna repeatedly shatter in close range to you just to stack some blind duration.

If you put it on short iCD 5-10s, it basically just makes it not affect multiple foes and becomes awkward to use. If you put it on long iCD 15s+. Then the trait is essentially dead. Because mesmers will shatter in range a lot. One shatter in range basically nullifies the trait.

you are forgetting that thats 4 different shatters, 4 different cds.. which you could easily pair stealths and invulns ports while waiting the cds to go off cd.

StickerHappy.8052:

Exciton.8942:

There are already CDs on shatter skills. What’s the point to put another layer of CDs on the function that is built upon it? I mean no decent mesmer gonna repeatedly shatter in close range to you just to stack some blind duration.

If you put it on short iCD 5-10s, it basically just makes it not affect multiple foes and becomes awkward to use. If you put it on long iCD 15s+. Then the trait is essentially dead. Because mesmers will shatter in range a lot. One shatter in range basically nullifies the trait.

you are forgetting that thats 4 different shatters, 4 different cds.. which you could easily pair stealths and invulns ports while waiting the cds to go off cd.

Not really. In reality, F4 is already invul which you save for the most dire moment. F3 is the most important skill to both setup burst and save life. You won’t use any of these two for blind.

This only leaves F1 and F2. F1 is one of the main source of our damage. If you are fine shattering it for blind, then you waste some damage. Sounds like good tradeoff for me. F2 is the only skill that you can use purely for this trait(You also may want to use for boon removal). It also has more than 20s of CD.

Last but not least, blind is only a mitigation not a life saver. It gets removed after a missed hit. You can’t rely on blind to survive when your other skills are on CD.

Exciton.8942:

StickerHappy.8052:

Exciton.8942:

There are already CDs on shatter skills. What’s the point to put another layer of CDs on the function that is built upon it? I mean no decent mesmer gonna repeatedly shatter in close range to you just to stack some blind duration.

If you put it on short iCD 5-10s, it basically just makes it not affect multiple foes and becomes awkward to use. If you put it on long iCD 15s+. Then the trait is essentially dead. Because mesmers will shatter in range a lot. One shatter in range basically nullifies the trait.

you are forgetting that thats 4 different shatters, 4 different cds.. which you could easily pair stealths and invulns ports while waiting the cds to go off cd.

Not really. In reality, F4 is already invul which you save for the most dire moment. F3 is the most important skill to both setup burst and save life. You won’t use any of these two for blind.

This only leaves F1 and F2. F1 is one of the main source of our damage. If you are fine shattering it for blind, then you waste some damage. Sounds like good tradeoff for me. F2 is the only skill that you can use purely for this trait(You also may want to use for boon removal). It also has more than 20s of CD.

Last but not least, blind is only a mitigation not a life saver. It gets removed after a missed hit. You can’t rely on blind to survive when your other skills are on CD.

Mesmers damage now is too strong, even without MW. Phantasm, HS, Mirror Blade, is a lot of damage already so I wouldn’t call that gimping your damage when you use your MW defensively. Even that defensive attempt will still deal damage.

Also, when you use your f1 from a burst, you can easily port out again, by the time they reach you in melee range you can already have MW back off cd again.

So how do you exactly kill a good mesmer?

StickerHappy.8052:

Exciton.8942:

StickerHappy.8052:

Exciton.8942:

There are already CDs on shatter skills. What’s the point to put another layer of CDs on the function that is built upon it? I mean no decent mesmer gonna repeatedly shatter in close range to you just to stack some blind duration.

If you put it on short iCD 5-10s, it basically just makes it not affect multiple foes and becomes awkward to use. If you put it on long iCD 15s+. Then the trait is essentially dead. Because mesmers will shatter in range a lot. One shatter in range basically nullifies the trait.

you are forgetting that thats 4 different shatters, 4 different cds.. which you could easily pair stealths and invulns ports while waiting the cds to go off cd.

Not really. In reality, F4 is already invul which you save for the most dire moment. F3 is the most important skill to both setup burst and save life. You won’t use any of these two for blind.

This only leaves F1 and F2. F1 is one of the main source of our damage. If you are fine shattering it for blind, then you waste some damage. Sounds like good tradeoff for me. F2 is the only skill that you can use purely for this trait(You also may want to use for boon removal). It also has more than 20s of CD.

Last but not least, blind is only a mitigation not a life saver. It gets removed after a missed hit. You can’t rely on blind to survive when your other skills are on CD.

Mesmers damage now is too strong, even without MW. Phantasm, HS, Mirror Blade, is a lot of damage already so I wouldn’t call that gimping your damage when you use your MW defensively. Even that defensive attempt will still deal damage.

Also, when you use your f1 from a burst, you can easily port out again, by the time they reach you in melee range you can already have MW back off cd again.

So how do you exactly kill a good mesmer?

Then isn’t the problem some other too strong stuff like CS and damage over the top? The fight can be finished within a short time so that the mesmer just spams everything on top of you.
The balance team should aim to eliminate such things. If damage and perma-lock is nerf’ed, you will see fight going much longer. Then the weakness of mesmer being super squishy and vulnerable to condie will show.
TBH, your suggestion is exactly the kind of thought that make our class get over-nerf’ed.

Yeah there’s 4 shatters. But if you use diversion and distortion for the blind then you might as well go home.
I think you’re too hung up on this Stickers. People want it avoidable. Let them have it

Jace al Thor.6745:

Yeah there’s 4 shatters. But if you use diversion and distortion for the blind then you might as well go home.
I think you’re too hung up on this Stickers. People want it avoidable. Let them have it

Avoidable? If you random dodge? Heres the deal, instant AoE blinds have no counterplay.

Again you’re too hung up on this.
Out of 4 shatters, 2 are used offensively, another can be used for both, the fourth is solely defensive.
Wasting the latter two just for blinds is stupid and shows ill use of skills.
The former are on a 12 and a 25ish second cd. So adding a cd to those is pointless.
And to say there no counter play isn’t true when there is AoE condi clear in the game. Is it perfect? Maybe not.However, it’s a 3second blind in Melee range. It can be cleared through condi cleanse, simply kited until it’s off, use an invuln skill, whatever. It’s not the end of the world. But you’ve not put forth any suggestion as to how to fix it either other than complain about it.
This coming from someone that doesn’t even run it. I much prefer Evasive Mirror to Blinding Disapation.

Jace al Thor.6745:

Again you’re too hung up on this.
Out of 4 shatters, 2 are used offensively, another can be used for both, the fourth is solely defensive.
Wasting the latter two just for blinds is stupid and shows ill use of skills.
The former are on a 12 and a 25ish second cd. So adding a cd to those is pointless.
And to say there no counter play isn’t true when there is AoE condi clear in the game. Is it perfect? Maybe not.However, it’s a 3second blind in Melee range. It can be cleared through condi cleanse, simply kited until it’s off, use an invuln skill, whatever. It’s not the end of the world. But you’ve not put forth any suggestion as to how to fix it either other than complain about it.
This coming from someone that doesn’t even run it. I much prefer Evasive Mirror to Blinding Disapation.

I am not too hung up on it. Any shatter can be used offensively or defensively now. You will not believe it but Rylock used f4 to burst me. so I could not prevent it.

Clears? How long is a cd on clear?

All of this you mentioned are all ideal situations. You cannot kite against a good mesmer, getting rid of the blind on an AA close range would be futile, the mesmer can kill you easily off.

And had the burst failed and you counter bursted his best get out of jail free card was just put on a 50 second cd.
F4 is best used defensively let me rephrase that.
And since f4 cause distortion so you evade attacks and does no damage it’s hard to see how that bursted you.
And f3 with CS and PB I could understand.
That and depending on what you were playing as a Mesmer you could have used your own f4 to avoid the burst(it’s not affected by blind) blinked out, or popped a signet as a ranger.

Yea, why not nerfing every good trait/skill on mesmers instead of learning how to handle it. Yessss, lets play Guard for shattered aegis with 10k, or a condi specc for 4k ticks burning. Oh, no, better play power necro for 6k auto attacks. Or we can main ele for massiv heals to not give a **** or aura share to make a insta win o group fights. Maybe, if thats not good enough, we can play ranger for bunker condi builds, with taunt and so funny thing. Or power with stability, 3k autoattacks rapidfire and so on.
Yes lets do this. Lets remove mesmer from the game, because i cant handle not spammable blinds and cant dodge shatter bursts, or because i cant use my stunbreaker when im stunned. Yep, lets nerf everything cool and fun on mesmer, so we can cry for the next nerfs on other classes instead of learning how to play at all.

(I agree with PU is OP.)

MandJ.8965:

Yea, why not nerfing every good trait/skill on mesmers instead of learning how to handle it. Yessss, lets play Guard for shattered aegis with 10k, or a condi specc for 4k ticks burning. Oh, no, better play power necro for 6k auto attacks. Or we can main ele for massiv heals to not give a **** or aura share to make a insta win o group fights. Maybe, if thats not good enough, we can play ranger for bunker condi builds, with taunt and so funny thing. Or power with stability, 3k autoattacks rapidfire and so on.
Yes lets do this. Lets remove mesmer from the game, because i cant handle not spammable blinds and cant dodge shatter bursts, or because i cant use my stunbreaker when im stunned. Yep, lets nerf everything cool and fun on mesmer, so we can cry for the next nerfs on other classes instead of learning how to play at all.

(I agree with PU is OP.)

The typical overdramatic mesmer.

I’m confused why this thread exists. You seem to just want the trait removed. Please create another thread for that topic. The trait can’t exist with a cd on it. It is far too unpredictable. Either suggest another trait in its place or stop making indirect threads. And the fact that you choose to harp on this trait rather then CS or PU is quite suspicious.

Daniel Handler.4816:

I’m confused why this thread exists. You seem to just want the trait removed. Please create another thread for that topic. The trait can’t exist with a cd on it. It is far too unpredictable. Either suggest another trait in its place or stop making indirect threads. And the fact that you choose to harp on this trait rather then CS or PU is quite suspicious.

Suspicious? If you check my post history, most of my threads are about this trait. I am just pointing out realtalk here, people who are complaining about the trait being undodgeable are oblivious to the strength of this trait. Make it dodgeable? then what? Random Dodge?

If they fix the undodgeable part, i bet you thats time people will see the real strength of this trait. Then will request another nerf to it.

I don’t actually understand the problem with the trait. I mean, it’s an instant blind so is strong, but it’s not a field or frequently applied, afaik.

Choppy.4183:

I don’t actually understand the problem with the trait. I mean, it’s an instant blind so is strong, but it’s not a field or frequently applied, afaik.

Instant AoE. 12 seconds is not frequent enough for you? on 1 shatter?
Pair this with other blind sources we have? Chaos Armor, Prestige, Ineptitude, CI, etc

Now don’t tell me Blinding Powder is frequent.

StickerHappy.8052:

Why are people so intent on making Blinds from BD dodgeable?

If this fixes anything, it would be a minuscule difference.

Why?

Instant Shatters are a matter of Lucky Dodging anyways, Making the blinds not go through dodges will only matter if you manage to random dodge an Instant IP shatter.

The best way to fix this is add an ICD to BD.

Because I honestly don’t think BD working through evades was intended. An ICD would completely break Shatter Mesmer’s biggest defense: it’s the single trait that makes Shatter Mesmer able to fight on point for at least a little bit of time.

There’s also more than one way to “evade” attacks that don’t include dodging. Blurred Frenzy says hello for example.

Sigh. I don’t need to check you post history to know you think Mesmer is overpowered and needs some huge ungodly nerf.
But seriously. It’s one blind per shatter for 3 seconds. It’s not the end of the world. And as I have said. If you’re using f4 just for the blind, your most reliable distortion and nondamaging shatter, then you’ve wasted it. The trait is already on s cd due to shatter recharge and Mesmer positioning. Need more counter play? Why don’t you just stop playing Mesmer until it’s back to what it was pre patch, with only one high tier PvP build, and very few playing in top tier PvP.
There’s better things to rant about than BD. PU and CS need worked on. BD? It’s situational and a tough choice between it and evasive mirror as it is now. Both are extremely good traits.
Saying BD is super OP is like saying GS 2 isn’t dodgeable or something.

StickerHappy.8052:

Ithilwen.1529:

The real deal is simple. BD stops the run-in-and-burst-for-instant-dead-mesmer “mechanic.” Thieves and Warriors are no doubt especially upset that they actually have to play against a Mesmer with BD.

Oh I get your point trust me. But The question I was asking, why are people still only fixated on making BD dodgeable, I wouldn’t think this makes a big difference because shatters are instant, so a random dodge or lucky dodge are the only things that “make BD dodgeable” argument be solved.

+1 to Itilwen!!!

Again, it’s a big deal, because you shouldn’t be hit by something when you’re dodging. you’re looking at it from a 1v1 perspective. In a crowded team fight, you will be dodging attacks. You might get lucky and dodge a melee shatter, but OH WAIT, you’re unlucky because you’re still blinded. This is something that needs to be fixed and just one more thing that makes Mesmers top tier above the other professions.

MailMail.6534:

StickerHappy.8052:

Why are people so intent on making Blinds from BD dodgeable?

If this fixes anything, it would be a minuscule difference.

Why?

Instant Shatters are a matter of Lucky Dodging anyways, Making the blinds not go through dodges will only matter if you manage to random dodge an Instant IP shatter.

The best way to fix this is add an ICD to BD.

Because I honestly don’t think BD working through evades was intended. An ICD would completely break Shatter Mesmer’s biggest defense: it’s the single trait that makes Shatter Mesmer able to fight on point for at least a little bit of time.

There’s also more than one way to “evade” attacks that don’t include dodging. Blurred Frenzy says hello for example.

Mesmer’s Biggest defense? What?

Stealth, Invulns, Ports,

StickerHappy.8052:

Mesmer’s Biggest defense? What?

Stealth, Invulns, Ports,

Because that worked so well against thieves prepatch…

Jace al Thor.6745:

Sigh. I don’t need to check you post history to know you think Mesmer is overpowered and needs some huge ungodly nerf.
But seriously. It’s one blind per shatter for 3 seconds. It’s not the end of the world. And as I have said. If you’re using f4 just for the blind, your most reliable distortion and nondamaging shatter, then you’ve wasted it. The trait is already on s cd due to shatter recharge and Mesmer positioning. Need more counter play? Why don’t you just stop playing Mesmer until it’s back to what it was pre patch, with only one high tier PvP build, and very few playing in top tier PvP.
There’s better things to rant about than BD. PU and CS need worked on. BD? It’s situational and a tough choice between it and evasive mirror as it is now. Both are extremely good traits.
Saying BD is super OP is like saying GS 2 isn’t dodgeable or something.

Did you watch The ESL today? Few mesmers play top tier? I do not know where you folks get this mentality.

CS and PU oh no doubt they need some work, I never said those traits didnt need rework.

Oh trust me, I did stop playing my mesmer.

Fay.2357:

StickerHappy.8052:

Mesmer’s Biggest defense? What?

Stealth, Invulns, Ports,

Because that worked so well against thieves prepatch…

Ah fresh voice of reason. Maybe you can bring some light to this argument Pyro

StickerHappy.8052:

Jace al Thor.6745:

Sigh. I don’t need to check you post history to know you think Mesmer is overpowered and needs some huge ungodly nerf.
But seriously. It’s one blind per shatter for 3 seconds. It’s not the end of the world. And as I have said. If you’re using f4 just for the blind, your most reliable distortion and nondamaging shatter, then you’ve wasted it. The trait is already on s cd due to shatter recharge and Mesmer positioning. Need more counter play? Why don’t you just stop playing Mesmer until it’s back to what it was pre patch, with only one high tier PvP build, and very few playing in top tier PvP.
There’s better things to rant about than BD. PU and CS need worked on. BD? It’s situational and a tough choice between it and evasive mirror as it is now. Both are extremely good traits.
Saying BD is super OP is like saying GS 2 isn’t dodgeable or something.

Did you watch The ESL today? Few mesmers play top tier? I do not know where you folks get this mentality.

CS and PU oh no doubt they need some work, I never said those traits didnt need rework.

Oh trust me, I did stop playing my mesmer.

What part escaped you that I was talking about pre patch? Did you just forget to read that?
I know more are playing it NOW but you want mesmer back when not many were in top tier and was food for just about every class but necro.
And if you’ve stopped playing Mesmer don’t worry about Mesmer traits and skills. There’s been tons of discussion about how to bring Mesmer back in line while retaining its strength. BD won’t fix anything.

StickerHappy.8052:

Choppy.4183:

I don’t actually understand the problem with the trait. I mean, it’s an instant blind so is strong, but it’s not a field or frequently applied, afaik.

Instant AoE. 12 seconds is not frequent enough for you? on 1 shatter?
Pair this with other blind sources we have? Chaos Armor, Prestige, Ineptitude, CI, etc

Now don’t tell me Blinding Powder is frequent.

Well, that’s just it. In and of itself, I don’t find an aoe instant cast blind on a 12s cd OP because it will get cleared pretty quickly. Its best play is preventing a massive burst (like a thief opener or a warrior eviscerate), which is huge but consistent with blinds anywhere else in the game.

I actually do find Blinding Powder more of a problem when on my dps warrior, which has to land hard hitting, hugely telegraphed hits or die, because it forces me to interrupt a burst and find the edge of the field to resume being a threat. I don’t think BP is overpowered mind you, not with its current initiative cost, but it’s a tougher hurdle for me as a melee player than what BD does. That’s me, anyway.

But what you brought up there was the totality of blinds available to a mesmer. I don’t know mesmer well enough to know how much of a problem it is, but right there that tells me if there’s a problem, it’s not centered around one trait.

Also, if the instant cast means making it dodgeable does nothing, and a 10s ICD does nothing, and a 15s ICD breaks the trait, maybe it’s not the thing to focus on.

EDIT: I’m not looking to make your world more complicated though. You know mesmer better than I do, and if you (and MailMail) think BD’s the thing that’s bringing a lot to the party, I’m not the one to say it’s not. I’m just saying, as someone who mains a class that would be particularly affected by it, an instant cast blind every 12s isn’t what I’d find most frustrating.

Jace al Thor.6745:

StickerHappy.8052:

Jace al Thor.6745:

Sigh. I don’t need to check you post history to know you think Mesmer is overpowered and needs some huge ungodly nerf.
But seriously. It’s one blind per shatter for 3 seconds. It’s not the end of the world. And as I have said. If you’re using f4 just for the blind, your most reliable distortion and nondamaging shatter, then you’ve wasted it. The trait is already on s cd due to shatter recharge and Mesmer positioning. Need more counter play? Why don’t you just stop playing Mesmer until it’s back to what it was pre patch, with only one high tier PvP build, and very few playing in top tier PvP.
There’s better things to rant about than BD. PU and CS need worked on. BD? It’s situational and a tough choice between it and evasive mirror as it is now. Both are extremely good traits.
Saying BD is super OP is like saying GS 2 isn’t dodgeable or something.

Did you watch The ESL today? Few mesmers play top tier? I do not know where you folks get this mentality.

CS and PU oh no doubt they need some work, I never said those traits didnt need rework.

Oh trust me, I did stop playing my mesmer.

What part escaped you that I was talking about pre patch? Did you just forget to read that?
I know more are playing it NOW but you want mesmer back when not many were in top tier and was food for just about every class but necro.
And if you’ve stopped playing Mesmer don’t worry about Mesmer traits and skills. There’s been tons of discussion about how to bring Mesmer back in line while retaining its strength. BD won’t fix anything.

Pre patch?

You want me to enumerate all the players who main mesmers in top tier?

StickerHappy.8052:

MailMail.6534:

StickerHappy.8052:

Why are people so intent on making Blinds from BD dodgeable?

If this fixes anything, it would be a minuscule difference.

Why?

Instant Shatters are a matter of Lucky Dodging anyways, Making the blinds not go through dodges will only matter if you manage to random dodge an Instant IP shatter.

The best way to fix this is add an ICD to BD.

Because I honestly don’t think BD working through evades was intended. An ICD would completely break Shatter Mesmer’s biggest defense: it’s the single trait that makes Shatter Mesmer able to fight on point for at least a little bit of time.

There’s also more than one way to “evade” attacks that don’t include dodging. Blurred Frenzy says hello for example.

Mesmer’s Biggest defense? What?

Stealth, Invulns, Ports,

We’ve always had stealth, invulns and ports my friend… and it didn’t help us enough to be even mid-tier pre-revamp sooooo. I think people are forgetting that Mesmer has always been a profession that succeeds better against weak opponents. The higher in competitive tier you get, the more you see that Mesmer is a class that requires a lot of work for very little reward comparatively.

BD is a VERY powerful trait for Mesmer and imo is the biggest reason why we have more survivability now. I think the blind proccing against evading enemies should be corrected, but I do not under any circumstance agree with nerfing it with an ICD.

Fay.2357:

StickerHappy.8052:

Mesmer’s Biggest defense? What?

Stealth, Invulns, Ports,

Because that worked so well against thieves, warriors, elementalists, engineers and guardians prepatch…

Fixed. No thank yous necessary, Pyro.

Please enlighten me. Especially seeing how ones such Supcutie switched to thief because he wasn’t doing his Team any good on Mesmer, helseth whose admitted that he would have done more for his team as a thief if he could play it well.
And while you’re naming tell me how many ToL’s these mesmers have won as Mesmer mains.

Jace al Thor.6745:

Please enlighten me. Especially seeing how ones such Supcutie switched to thief because he wasn’t doing his Team any good on Mesmer, helseth whose admitted that he would have done more for his team as a thief if he could play it well.
And while you’re naming tell me how many ToL’s these mesmers have won as Mesmer mains.

Qt Zeromis (Genesis)
Decadencia (SoAk)
Mime (Simple life)
Crazy El Presidente (Little People Big World)
Azani
Helseth
NNight (Apex)
L Ipno
Supcutie if you wanna include him

The other guy from OrNg played mesmer too I forgot the name.
The mesmer from SALT I also forgot the name.

Don’t tell me you don’t know these people. Are they not top tier enough for you guys?

So… 6 people played Mesmer pre patch in top tier play? Vs all the ele’s, thieves, warr, and guards? You’re kittening kidding me right?
And you never did say how many tournaments they won. Apparently none? Pre patch we had as many people in top teir as ranger and necro did. Get off the Mesmer hating high horse already.

MailMail.6534:

Fay.2357:

StickerHappy.8052:

Mesmer’s Biggest defense? What?

Stealth, Invulns, Ports,

Because that worked so well against thieves, warriors, elementalists, engineers and guardians prepatch…

Fixed. No thank yous necessary, Pyro.

What? okay realtalk here, warriors? eles? engineers? Are you joking?

Thieves are the only ones giving mes a hard time pre patch, Medi Guardian a close second.

If stealths, invulns, ports do not work well against classes for you then I have no idea what to say anymore.

Jeez sticker.. You too?

What’s the point of this thread… Whatever is gonna happen will happen. Arguing over the “logic” of the trait is silly at this point, what will it accomplish?

Seriously, everything that needs to be said has already been said. So tired of all of this…

Jace al Thor.6745:

So… 6 people played Mesmer pre patch in top tier play? Vs all the ele’s, thieves, warr, and guards? You’re kittening kidding me right?
And you never did say how many tournaments they won. Apparently none? Pre patch we had as many people in top teir as ranger and necro did. Get off the Mesmer hating high horse already.

Dude Im not hating. All of you people are so misinformed. Winning matters yes, But you guys are saying that mesmers are underrepresented or even not represented in top tier play.

The keyword here is representation. So if A team without eles won A major tourney, would you say no ele is not top tier?

We need to stop playing the victim game here.
Oh rangers in top tier? what?

I edited the list for you, more coming. I forgot the names of the others.

StickerHappy.8052:

Jace al Thor.6745:

So… 6 people played Mesmer pre patch in top tier play? Vs all the ele’s, thieves, warr, and guards? You’re kittening kidding me right?
And you never did say how many tournaments they won. Apparently none? Pre patch we had as many people in top teir as ranger and necro did. Get off the Mesmer hating high horse already.

Dude Im not hating. All of you people are so misinformed. Winning matters yes, But you guys are saying that mesmers are underrepresented or even not represented in top tier play.

The keyword here is representation. So if A team without eles won A major tourney, would you say no ele is not top tier?

We need to stop playing the victim game here.
Oh rangers in top tier? what?

I edited the list for you, more coming. I forgot the names of the others.

Misinformed? Maybe. But I’d rather be misinformed than misguided.
If team a wins without ele’s but team b,c,d,e,f,g,h,I,j,k, etc have ele’s then no it’s not. However mesmers not been that way. Have there always been a handful of players that play Mesmer in top tier? Sure. But never the extent as other classes. And you’re saying that everyone that’s posted here is wrong? If you think that then you are the one misinformed

StickerHappy.8052:

MailMail.6534:

Fay.2357:

StickerHappy.8052:

Mesmer’s Biggest defense? What?

Stealth, Invulns, Ports,

Because that worked so well against thieves, warriors, elementalists, engineers and guardians prepatch…

Fixed. No thank yous necessary, Pyro.

What? okay realtalk here, warriors? eles? engineers? Are you joking?

Thieves are the only ones giving mes a hard time pre patch, Medi Guardian a close second.

If stealths, invulns, ports do not work well against classes for you then I have no idea what to say anymore.

No, I am not joking. In a typical conquest match, those classes all bring more to the table for far less effort than Mesmer. I didn’t know this was a fact up for debate. Purely talking meta builds, Mesmer couldn’t 1v1 and burst down any of those classes on point except for maybe the warrior. By the time you whittled any of them down (we’re talking cele classes here…) they would have team-support while your blink is on CD.