Guild Wars 2

Ever since I saw Pyro’s build for a phantasm Mesmer for dungeons, I have focused on some form of phantasm build. Over the past year, I tuned a build to work the way I like and have played it a lot in WvW. Fairly often, I see a post that says phantasm builds are “no skill” builds. It doesn’t feel that way to me when I play. I feel like I’m constantly moving, using every skill on all my weapons, managing which phantasms are up, swapping weapon sets as frequently as possible, dodging and using blocks or interrupts defensively, etc.

I haven’t played a shatter build or a mantra build or any other Mesmer build for at least 10 months. So I don’t have personal experience to compare in terms of the level of skill involved. But I guess it really comes down to just two questions:

- Is it possible to play a phantasm Mesmer at a high level of skill? For example, so that someone would say they lost to that Mesmer because of their skill vs their build.

- If so, what characterizes playing a phantasm Mesmer at a high skill level? What separates it from a “low skill” phantasm player?

Thx and happy holidays

“Fairly often, I see a post that says phantasm builds are “no skill” builds. It doesn’t feel that way to me when I play. I feel like I’m constantly moving, using every skill on all my weapons, managing which phantasms are up, swapping weapon sets as frequently as possible, dodging and using blocks or interrupts defensively, etc.”

That’s because you are.

Best advice I can give you is to ignore all of these comments. Play what you wish and ignore the negativity and judgmentalism from the peanut gallery.

Out of curiosity.. Mind posting your build? Qaelyn pretty much hit the nail on the head, people will sooner blame you and call your build “easy” than admit that they got out played because they made the wrong decisions.

“You won because I’m using a more difficult build than you! In reality, I’m so much more skilled and you’re just some faceroll noob. You should play by my rules and only use builds that I approve of!

People like that are usually the ones who say:

“Mesmer OP! Warrior OP! Ranger OP! Necro OP! Engineer OP! Thief OP!”

.. and they’ll feel validated as long as there’s someone to repeat and confirm it (IE all the other people who lost to you). I guarantee if people started saying "Guardian OP! out of nowhere, then everyone who lost to a guardian would parrot the same thing.

It’s a bit silly and ridiculous and completely unsportsmanlike, but there is some truth in their words. Some builds are easier to play than others, but it’s very hard to tell that from a glance. Someone who doesn’t know your build sees “oh phantasms do damage, oh they’re so hard to hit, it must be sooo easy for them.” when they have no idea the strengths and weaknesses of your build. Maybe it’s great in duels but sucks in team fights, maybe its perfect for solo roaming and atrocious in zergs, if your build is superior in 1v1 then they were dumb to come at you solo because they’re playing to YOUR strengths.

Maybe their build IS more difficult to use, maybe not, they’re spewing out a generalization to make themselves feel better and try to take away some of the glory of your win.

Its a mind trick, we’re Mesmers, don’t let that stuff bother you. =P

If you’re sitting at max range with a greatsword, sure. Otherwise I don’t think phantasm mesmer is any easier or harder than any other class.

so most ppl thing phantasm mesmer is cheap cause you just need to do 4 things
1. have 30% more illu dmg and the fury trait
2. dont be blinded
3. dont be obstructed
4. kite end let the illus do the dmg
the illus are just to good in one vs one fights → the swordsman hit every 3,6 sec for example you cant dodge that and mostly just die
other build need to fokus to offense and their defense

i guess a good illu mesmer just start the fight with 3 illusions
cast swordsman at 1200 range, then swap the offhand sword with pistol from your bag ( before you get into combat , not possible in tpvp) then cast the pistol illu , swap weapon to secondary set ( for example gs ) and you got 3 illus

@chaos here’s a link to my build http://bit.ly/18vY89x

I’m not actually dealing with people specifically messaging me to say my build is unfair. I mostly roam in WvW, so I don’t tend to stick around long after a fight (unless I need to finish taking a camp or something).

And I’m really trying to ask the second question – what kinds of tactics and moves separate a “skilled” phantasm Mesmer from an “unskilled” one. I don’t really mean this post to be about me. I’m around rank 270 in WvW with about 4000 – 5000 kills mostly from roaming and havoc. But I know there are tremendously more skilled Mesmer players here on the forums. So I’m asking what kinds of things people do as phantasm players that show real skill.

@terekhov I’ve never tried casting a phantasm and swapping into inventory. It feels like the timing is pretty tight. I do try to open by casting a phantasm and swapping before the phantasm engages so that I can swap back without having to wait for the cooldown. I do try to fight from range. That’s the point of my build. That also means that I need to keep the terrain in mind and choose when I use my stealths to disengage and maneuver. When I fight against other phantasm mesmers, it doesn’t happen like you describe. There’s usually an initial dodge on the first phantasm attack, and then I will typically try to take out the other phantasm (which isn’t so hard because of their low health – it’s more about choosing what to target and knowing what skills you have available – I try not to use a phantasm on a phantasm, but it’s been the better tradeoff from time to time.)

I guess that’s the kind of stuff I’m looking for here – what kinds of decisions people make when using phantasm builds that represent skillful play.

I’ve been a phantasm Mesmer for the longest time ever. I’ve had many duels, fights and encounters. Many have said I’m very good. Others have called me cheesy and no skill. I will admit phantasm is a very easy playstyle. It is passive and very tough to beat 1v1. However, I’ve found many of the good players know how to counter phantasm mesmers and that eventually you hit a point where you need good skills to really thrive as a phantasm Mesmer.

The key differences between a good and bad phantasm Mesmer is their placement skills and defensive ability.

Terekhov.3670:

so most ppl thing phantasm mesmer is cheap cause you just need to do 4 things
1. have 30% more illu dmg and the fury trait
2. dont be blinded
3. dont be obstructed
4. kite end let the illus do the dmg
the illus are just to good in one vs one fights -> the swordsman hit every 3,6 sec for example you cant dodge that and mostly just die
other build need to fokus to offense and their defense

i guess a good illu mesmer just start the fight with 3 illusions
cast swordsman at 1200 range, then swap the offhand sword with pistol from your bag ( before you get into combat , not possible in tpvp) then cast the pistol illu , swap weapon to secondary set ( for example gs ) and you got 3 illus

Are we still talking dungeons? Cause a phantasm mesmer who just summons illusions then goes off to hide somewhere isn’t a very good one.

the op is mostly playing wvw , so no phantasmen and kiting would be the better one ? ;O

eldenbri.1059:

Fairly often, I see a post that says phantasm builds are “no skill” builds. It doesn’t feel that way to me when I play.

Here’s how I see it. If you’re losing a 1v1 as a phantasm mesmer, or find it a difficult spec, then you’re not an amazing player. Phantasm play can be skillfull to an extent, but offers very little return if you do have “uberl33tskillz”. Personally, I find shatter more OP then phantasm, if you know how to use it properly, the rewards are substantially higher then if you can use a phantasm build.

Phantasm is pretty bad in group play, that’s why you’ll only see it being used exclusively for 1v1’s, basically, and you have to be honest with yourself here. Yes you are moving, but you’re not being active, yes you’re dodging and moving, but your damage is coming from clones you press one button to summon as you kite. To me, that’s the definition of an autopilot build. Similar OP builds include thief p/d and s/d, warrior h/m/m, and the the zoo builds(necro and ranger).

Then take a look at what other builds require you to do, d/d ele, s/d ele, shatter mesmer, burst thieves, burst warriors, power rangers. The level of reaction required to not only successfully pull these off, but reactively adapt to certain situations and do so well, does requires you to be engage more. Higher risk, higher reward.

If you really want to test your skill level as a phantasm mesmer, you could always pick fights with blind or stealth heavy opponents, or other opponents who can exploit the AI and use them against you. P/D thieves, stun lock warriors, all the other similarly criticized builds are fair game.

The people who’ve already lost to you are not worth your time. You’ll never know how good you are until you fight someone who’s better than you—whether by out-maneuvering you or by stacking odds against you.

Heinel.6548:

If you really want to test your skill level as a phantasm mesmer, you could always pick fights with blind or stealth heavy opponents, or other opponents who can exploit the AI and use them against you. P/D thieves, stun lock warriors, all the other similarly criticized builds are fair game.

The people who’ve already lost to you are not worth your time. You’ll never know how good you are until you fight someone who’s better than you—whether by out-maneuvering you or by stacking odds against you.

I have to agree with Heinel. The real test of if you’re a good phantasm (or any build) player is how good your opponent has to be to beat you.

I main ranger and always use SB in my build, and from time to time people I beat come back crying that I am a noob and all I did was auto-attack with the shortbow. The truth is, in most of these cases that is all I did, because its all I had to do to beat them. Its not my fault they didnt play well enough to force into playing better myself, and the same I think is true for you.

So some people you might “auto-pilot” through with your phantasms doing all the work and it might appear cheap.. but the test of whether you’re just using a cheap build because its easy or whether you’re just being lazy vs bad opponents is when you meet a skilled opponent, whether or not you can rise to the challenge or whether you just fall apart.

If you can kite 3+ people, know how to use #3 sword perfectly, be able to beat perm stealth thieves without them running away, win of super duper good s/d thieves, win of super duber good condition necro’s (well depends what build you’re playing but if its somewhat to mine then i guess you can have some problems against really good ones) hm and I guess if you can win 1v5??

I must agree, Phantasm builds don’t really require the highest skill cap to kill people on 1v1. But once you get 2 or more enemies its all about when to stun, when to immobilize, when and where to place my phantasm, should I shatter or not?

What makes a good phantasm mesmer?

Breathing.

Entioch.6594:

What makes a good phantasm mesmer?

Breathing.

See this stuff is just pointless. Even if the build type is newbie-friendly, there is definitely skill involved in playing it.

theCOREYCOLAK.5698:

eldenbri.1059:

Fairly often, I see a post that says phantasm builds are “no skill” builds. It doesn’t feel that way to me when I play.

Here’s how I see it. If you’re losing a 1v1 as a phantasm mesmer, or find it a difficult spec, then you’re not an amazing player. Phantasm play can be skillfull to an extent, but offers very little return if you do have “uberl33tskillz”. Personally, I find shatter more OP then phantasm, if you know how to use it properly, the rewards are substantially higher then if you can use a phantasm build.

Phantasm is pretty bad in group play, that’s why you’ll only see it being used exclusively for 1v1’s, basically, and you have to be honest with yourself here. Yes you are moving, but you’re not being active, yes you’re dodging and moving, but your damage is coming from clones you press one button to summon as you kite. To me, that’s the definition of an autopilot build. Similar OP builds include thief p/d and s/d, warrior h/m/m, and the the zoo builds(necro and ranger).

Then take a look at what other builds require you to do, d/d ele, s/d ele, shatter mesmer, burst thieves, burst warriors, power rangers. The level of reaction required to not only successfully pull these off, but reactively adapt to certain situations and do so well, does requires you to be engage more. Higher risk, higher reward.

Pretty much this

Qaelyn.7612:

Entioch.6594:

What makes a good phantasm mesmer?

Breathing.

See this stuff is just pointless. Even if the build type is newbie-friendly, there is definitely skill involved in playing it.

Breathing is a skill, and it is involved in almost every spec, if you don’t breath your gonna pass out, then you will probably lose. Depends though, your phantasms would keep doing their thing.