Guild Wars 2

Any thoughts?
/15 char

When u want to run the following archetype spec instead?
1. PU Condi (Duel/Chaos/Illu)
2. Selfish Highest Burst Dmg (Dom/Duel/Illu)

I am among the minority thinking elite specs in the long-term are actually both horizontal and vertical (diagonal???) progression for the base class.

Say in the long run, we have 3-4 elite specs to choose from. Players will end up leveling as a mesmer, knowing enough about the core class but the end-game is to specialize.

That’s a really tough question, since Chronomancy seems to (VERY STRONGLY) augment a lot of our trait lines (except for Dueling, it seems — anyone agree?).

I think that I wouldn’t go for Chronomancer if I was running a Rabid PU Condition build. I’d want the bleeds from Dueling and the Confusion/Torment from Illusions. Other than that, I’m at a bit of a loss.

Actually, I think that Chr/Duel/Illu makes a pretty solid Condi Shatter build…

Truth is, the best thing about Chronomancer is that it fixes one of the core issues with the class through the Chronophantasma trait. And that makes it synergise with literally anything else we want to do.

I think, if anything, that Dom/Duel/Illu might provide more absolute raw DPS in absolutely perfect solo-versus-golem testing conditions. But in realistic conditions where Phantasms can die, ramp up time counts for something, and we have teammates around, Chrono’s utility wins out by far.

Chronomancer is designed around F5, quickness, slow and alacrity, all of these synergies and reinforces with pretty much anything.
Exception:

• Slow does not work on confusion build, but you don’t need to spec for slow.
• Alacrity does not synergies as good with mantras, but quickness does…

You really can’t go wrong with these effects…

I don’t think it’s necessarily Chronophantasma or the IR trait.

I see “Alacrity” to GW2 Mesmer as what “Fast Casting” was in GW1.

Since there is no “mana/energy” to manage, being able to reduce cooldowns on every skill in this game is HUGE!

keenlam.4753:

When u want to run the following archetype spec instead?
1. PU Condi (Duel/Chaos/Illu)
2. Selfish Highest Burst Dmg (Dom/Duel/Illu)

I am among the minority thinking elite specs in the long-term are actually both horizontal and vertical (diagonal???) progression for the base class.

Say in the long run, we have 3-4 elite specs to choose from. Players will end up leveling as a mesmer, knowing enough about the core class but the end-game is to specialize.

I agree with this.

Once we have 3 or more elite specs I believe it will become the norm to pick one elite and two core traitlines. Perhaps Anet will again revamp the build system at that point to account for it – but who knows, it’s probably 5 years away or more…

tobascodagama.2961:

Actually, I think that Chr/Duel/Illu makes a pretty solid Condi Shatter build…

It totally does. I ran that this weekend with Sword-Shield/Scepter-Pistol. But if I wanted the stealth gameplay over the Chrono gameplay (for whatever reason) I’d pick up Chaos over Chronomancer.

That being said, Chronophantasma allows for some monstrous condi stacks…

When you want to be less efficient in dungeons, fractals, raids, WvW, and PvP 99% of the time.

Dueling/Chaos/Illusions condition isn’t going anywhere, rest assured.

Duel/Chaos/Illu is an easier condi build to play but I think I can safely say that X/Illu/Chrono is stronger overall.

Embolism.8106:

Duel/Chaos/Illu is an easier condi build to play but I think I can safely say that X/Illu/Chrono is stronger overall.

Yeah I agree.

x/Illusions/Chrono is better for damage output/cooldowns, but lacks the survivability traits that you can get with Duelling/Chaos/Illusions or Duelling/Inspiration/Illusions (ie traited mirror/blink, protection/regen, pDefender, condi clear, stability/boons etc…).

Curunen.8729:

Embolism.8106:

Duel/Chaos/Illu is an easier condi build to play but I think I can safely say that X/Illu/Chrono is stronger overall.

Yeah I agree.

x/Illusions/Chrono is better for damage output/cooldowns, but lacks the survivability traits that you can get with Duelling/Chaos/Illusions or Duelling/Inspiration/Illusions (ie traited mirror/blink, protection/regen, pDefender, condi clear, stability/boons etc…).

^
A lot of the chrono’s new survivability is in that shield block, and shield does very little for condi atm. Well of Precognition is an option, but condi mesmers are even more tight on utilities than other mesmers (since in addition to Blink/Decoy/Portal/Feedback/Condiclear, we also have Signet of Midnight and Signet of Dom competing for our attention).

AlphatheWhite.9351:

Curunen.8729:

Embolism.8106:

Duel/Chaos/Illu is an easier condi build to play but I think I can safely say that X/Illu/Chrono is stronger overall.

Yeah I agree.

x/Illusions/Chrono is better for damage output/cooldowns, but lacks the survivability traits that you can get with Duelling/Chaos/Illusions or Duelling/Inspiration/Illusions (ie traited mirror/blink, protection/regen, pDefender, condi clear, stability/boons etc…).

^
A lot of the chrono’s new survivability is in that shield block, and shield does very little for condi atm. Well of Precognition is an option, but condi mesmers are even more tight on utilities than other mesmers (since in addition to Blink/Decoy/Portal/Feedback/Condiclear, we also have Signet of Midnight and Signet of Dom competing for our attention).

I only got to test briefly on Sunday but I found playing Duelling/Illusions/Chrono condi I was able to trait Desperate Decoy and take Blink/MoResolve/WoPrecognition and felt it worked well around using prestige/MI as the stealth skills. I find I only need two – loosely one as an “oh kitten” gtfo button and the other to use offensively.

There was less chance of accidently causing reveal on self when needing to use actual Decoy because of spending less time in stealth thanks to the well of precognition, and for the first time ever I found the traited Decoy to be half decent.

I was very happy because the well offered more on point presence, group fight survivability and less enemy moaning about “perma” stealth. xD

Curunen.8729:

I only got to test briefly on Sunday but I found playing Duelling/Illusions/Chrono condi I was able to trait Desperate Decoy and take Blink/MoResolve/WoPrecognition and felt it worked well around using prestige/MI as the stealth skills. I find I only need two – loosely one as an “oh kitten” gtfo button and the other to use offensively.

There was less chance of accidently causing reveal on self when needing to use actual Decoy because of spending less time in stealth thanks to the well of precognition, and for the first time ever I found the traited Decoy to be half decent.

I was very happy because the well offered more on point presence, group fight survivability and less enemy moaning about “perma” stealth. xD

You know, at this point I’d totally written off Desperate Decoy. I’ll have to try that come HoT.

Did you take Well of Eternity for the condi cleanse, or stick with something more frequent like Ether Feast?

Talking PvP only:
Actually after I was testing Chronomancer in BWE2 and 3 (similar to Chaos’ Clockdown) I am not sure, if it really is stronger in manners of lockdown than my more traditional lockdown build with Greatsword + Sword/Pistol. The team support on the other hand is phenomenal with Chronomancer.

So what will likely happen:
If my team needs a roamer, I will likely go with the traditional Mesmer only build and take also Portal. If my team has a roamer I will go with something Clockdown like. That doesn’t mean Chronomancer can’t roam… I personally but prefer roaming on the traditional setup.

I also think, after the dust has settled, many people will learn to deal with Chronomancer better. As awesome as for instance shield is, it is also slow and strongly telegraphed, making it more easy to avoid.

Simple

When the next Elite Spec comes along. Why? Because Chrono is new and interesting. I’ve played base mes for 3 years solid (with a little wvw zerk staff ele, and kshot war here and there).

The two builds in my sig are equally great sides of the same coin. But I’ll switch to the Chrono version because I’ve played out the opposite, and just about everything else of interest.

This is something I realized as well. Why would you not spec Chronomancer?

Most elite specs give the class a way to play diffirently. Either a new playstyle or make one of their underwhelming & weak playstyles a lot stronger. (Giving you a reason to play the base specs sometimes if you want to stick to a certain playstyle or if u want to play build thats stronger without the elite spec)

With chronomancer though, they just buffed up all of the old mesmers builds & specs.
Condi shatter, power shatter, bunker, boonshare, lockdown and even phantasm builds to a lesser extent. Giving you no real reasons to play the older mesmer specs.

The only reason to play base mesmer is because Chronomancer might become too complicated for some.

Oh maybe if you want to play some PU Condi clone build or something. But… well yeah….

yea , chronomancer is just a buffed mesmer. we trade very little in order to access all this skill spamming goodies

I think it’s more accurate to say that Chronomancer is a fixed Mesmer. A lot of fixes that really should be part of the core Mesmer were shoehorned into the Chronomancer.

Which leaves the question of what future Elite specs will look like. Will they all have to include the same fixes Chronomancer has?

Any PvE: Chronomancer always. Why? Because base Mesmer sucks.

WvW Groups: Chronomancer always. Why? Because base Mesmer sucks.

PvP: Chronomancer usually. Why? Because base Mesmer is pidgeonholed into a niche shared with multiple other classes and Chronomancer allows you do expand your capabilities.

WvW roaming: Split. Why? Because this is the one aspect of the game that base Mesmer is actually good at.

It’s not that Chronomancer is overwhelmingly better than base Mesmer, it’s that base Mesmer just sucks.

Fay.2357:

It’s not that Chronomancer is overwhelmingly better than base Mesmer, it’s that base Mesmer just sucks.

It’s not that chronomancer is way better than base mesmer, it’s just that mesmer sucks and chrono is really good! Sry, couldn’t help it. And I wouldn’t say base mesmer sucks, tho it definitely isn’t ele tier. But with HoT, I feel like chrono is gonna put warriors buffing ability’s to shame while doing close to guard lvl support in PvE while being the last guy alive in the event of a wipe. I almost feel bad for guardian. Almost. Enjoy your dragonhunter guardians!

AlphatheWhite.9351:

A lot of the chrono’s new survivability is in that shield block, and shield does very little for condi atm.

Yeah, but what off-hand does offer anything for condi? Torch burn application is a joke, even in condi builds it’s used for defences more than anything. And Shield covers that even better.

I did play rune of the guardian with shield, and it was fairly fun. I was enjoying every time I saw “block” pop. Does that make shield a condi weapon…? I guess not. But it’s fun

tobascodagama.2961:

AlphatheWhite.9351:

A lot of the chrono’s new survivability is in that shield block, and shield does very little for condi atm.

Yeah, but what off-hand does offer anything for condi? Torch burn application is a joke, even in condi builds it’s used for defences more than anything. And Shield covers that even better.

Well pistol with duelist’s dis… never mind…

I would say Shield does a lot for condi. It generates a lot of Illusions with Shield 4, PoM and CP, and condi builds are a lot more illusion-hungry than Power builds.

AlphatheWhite.9351:

Curunen.8729:

I only got to test briefly on Sunday but I found playing Duelling/Illusions/Chrono condi I was able to trait Desperate Decoy and take Blink/MoResolve/WoPrecognition and felt it worked well around using prestige/MI as the stealth skills. I find I only need two – loosely one as an “oh kitten” gtfo button and the other to use offensively.

There was less chance of accidently causing reveal on self when needing to use actual Decoy because of spending less time in stealth thanks to the well of precognition, and for the first time ever I found the traited Decoy to be half decent.

I was very happy because the well offered more on point presence, group fight survivability and less enemy moaning about “perma” stealth. xD

You know, at this point I’d totally written off Desperate Decoy. I’ll have to try that come HoT.

Did you take Well of Eternity for the condi cleanse, or stick with something more frequent like Ether Feast?

Condi cleanse was traited torch and mantra of resolve. The build links are in my sig (sword/torch + staff condi shatter).

I stuck with ether feast because I still need to move around to avoid damage being vulnerable to incoming conditions.

I was honestly surprised how well desperate decoy slotted in when using we of precog, blink, prestige and mass invis. Providing you try to stay out of stealth as much as possible (ie save mass invis for gtfo, or resses) then desperate decoy is surprisingly useful for survival.

Fay.2357:

WvW roaming: Split. Why? Because this is the one aspect of the game that base Mesmer is actually good at.

It’s not that Chronomancer is overwhelmingly better than base Mesmer, it’s that base Mesmer just sucks.

Could you link or detail a build that would not be arguably improved by swapping out a trait line with Chrono?

I personally would always use chrono just because of the QoL movespeed while roaming.

A few times:
1. Highest possible burst —> Dom/Due/Ill
2. Some Condi Shatter Builds as Slow is counter-intuitive to Confusion. Don’t worry though, condi Mesmer won’t be a thing whatsoever (it was before???) by 2016 at this rate. Still, you aren’t forced to take Slow traits. Shield 4 clone generation is amazing for condi builds though.
3. Boonshare builds that prefer the insanely good trait: Blinding Dissipation. The vigor is also near constant with Dueling in tow with these builds.

adelaide.6213:

Fay.2357:

WvW roaming: Split. Why? Because this is the one aspect of the game that base Mesmer is actually good at.

It’s not that Chronomancer is overwhelmingly better than base Mesmer, it’s that base Mesmer just sucks.

Could you link or detail a build that would not be arguably improved by swapping out a trait line with Chrono?

I personally would always use chrono just because of the QoL movespeed while roaming.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhQQNArfWlsnhK0YnbwRNwtGLvGkZHG+IKnQvjGaAyZTA-TFyCABAcIAU4JFs3+DIfCFNIYp87S1f0TfxYKBDAgAMzysMnZ6W36W3G6QH6QH6QbmzcmzcmzsQALWDA-w

AlphatheWhite.9351:

adelaide.6213:

Fay.2357:

WvW roaming: Split. Why? Because this is the one aspect of the game that base Mesmer is actually good at.

It’s not that Chronomancer is overwhelmingly better than base Mesmer, it’s that base Mesmer just sucks.

Could you link or detail a build that would not be arguably improved by swapping out a trait line with Chrono?

I personally would always use chrono just because of the QoL movespeed while roaming.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhQQNArfWlsnhK0YnbwRNwtGLvGkZHG+IKnQvjGaAyZTA-TFyCABAcIAU4JFs3+DIfCFNIYp87S1f0TfxYKBDAgAMzysMnZ6W36W3G6QH6QH6QbmzcmzcmzsQALWDA-w

Again you forget you to use desperate decoy >.<
This time its because you must remember neither phantasm you have is multi hit, so making them crit is not a necessity.
The synergy between DD and PU is not to be missed.

In fact that synergy is so good it has become meta in pvp. As DD + PU + Runes of The Vampirism means every minute any BS +HS from a thief will make you stealth and invuln.

Daniel Handler.4816:

AlphatheWhite.9351:

adelaide.6213:

Fay.2357:

WvW roaming: Split. Why? Because this is the one aspect of the game that base Mesmer is actually good at.

It’s not that Chronomancer is overwhelmingly better than base Mesmer, it’s that base Mesmer just sucks.

Could you link or detail a build that would not be arguably improved by swapping out a trait line with Chrono?

I personally would always use chrono just because of the QoL movespeed while roaming.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhQQNArfWlsnhK0YnbwRNwtGLvGkZHG+IKnQvjGaAyZTA-TFyCABAcIAU4JFs3+DIfCFNIYp87S1f0TfxYKBDAgAMzysMnZ6W36W3G6QH6QH6QbmzcmzcmzsQALWDA-w

Again you forget you to use desperate decoy >.<
This time its because you must remember neither phantasm you have is multi hit, so making them crit is not a necessity.
The synergy between DD and PU is not to be missed.

In fact that synergy is so good it has become meta in pvp. As DD + PU + Runes of The Vampirism means every minute any BS +HS from a thief will make you stealth and invuln.

I can’t speak for alpha, but I personally avoid taking desperate decoy no matter what. I want direct control over my stealth/interruptions. I’ve been killed more than once by an ill-times desperate decoy proc.

Desperate Decoy can interrupt anything from res/stomp attempts to Mantra channelling. It’s terrible.

Embolism.8106:

Desperate Decoy can interrupt anything from res/stomp attempts to Mantra channelling. It’s terrible.

You should be aware of the threshold and the last time it procced. It has always been used to prevent instant deaths. The caveat to your interrupted stomp/res/mantra is that otherwise you would probably be dead. Its a pvp thing. I don’t know what mode you are referring to.

Daniel Handler.4816:

Embolism.8106:

Desperate Decoy can interrupt anything from res/stomp attempts to Mantra channelling. It’s terrible.

You should be aware of the threshold and the last time it procced. It has always been used to prevent instant deaths. The caveat to your interrupted stomp/res/mantra is that otherwise you would probably be dead. Its a pvp thing. I don’t know what mode you are referring to.

No, otherwise I would’ve gotten the stomp off and turned a 2v1 into a duel, instead I don’t and the guy gets ressed.

Unless you’re suggesting I always Distort when I stomp or run around until I get below 50% and proc Decoy… well, either way I’d consider it a hindrance rather than a benefit. And personally it works against me more often than it helps.

Fay.2357:

Daniel Handler.4816:

AlphatheWhite.9351:

adelaide.6213:

Fay.2357:

WvW roaming: Split. Why? Because this is the one aspect of the game that base Mesmer is actually good at.

It’s not that Chronomancer is overwhelmingly better than base Mesmer, it’s that base Mesmer just sucks.

Could you link or detail a build that would not be arguably improved by swapping out a trait line with Chrono?

I personally would always use chrono just because of the QoL movespeed while roaming.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhQQNArfWlsnhK0YnbwRNwtGLvGkZHG+IKnQvjGaAyZTA-TFyCABAcIAU4JFs3+DIfCFNIYp87S1f0TfxYKBDAgAMzysMnZ6W36W3G6QH6QH6QbmzcmzcmzsQALWDA-w

Again you forget you to use desperate decoy >.<
This time its because you must remember neither phantasm you have is multi hit, so making them crit is not a necessity.
The synergy between DD and PU is not to be missed.

In fact that synergy is so good it has become meta in pvp. As DD + PU + Runes of The Vampirism means every minute any BS +HS from a thief will make you stealth and invuln.

I can’t speak for alpha, but I personally avoid taking desperate decoy no matter what. I want direct control over my stealth/interruptions. I’ve been killed more than once by an ill-times desperate decoy proc.

Agreed.

Anyone suggesting it as meta, or running it as such has poor judgement and should be dismissed.

Edit:.. with love.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Fay.2357:

Daniel Handler.4816:

AlphatheWhite.9351:

adelaide.6213:

Fay.2357:

WvW roaming: Split. Why? Because this is the one aspect of the game that base Mesmer is actually good at.

It’s not that Chronomancer is overwhelmingly better than base Mesmer, it’s that base Mesmer just sucks.

Could you link or detail a build that would not be arguably improved by swapping out a trait line with Chrono?

I personally would always use chrono just because of the QoL movespeed while roaming.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhQQNArfWlsnhK0YnbwRNwtGLvGkZHG+IKnQvjGaAyZTA-TFyCABAcIAU4JFs3+DIfCFNIYp87S1f0TfxYKBDAgAMzysMnZ6W36W3G6QH6QH6QbmzcmzcmzsQALWDA-w

Again you forget you to use desperate decoy >.<
This time its because you must remember neither phantasm you have is multi hit, so making them crit is not a necessity.
The synergy between DD and PU is not to be missed.

In fact that synergy is so good it has become meta in pvp. As DD + PU + Runes of The Vampirism means every minute any BS +HS from a thief will make you stealth and invuln.

I can’t speak for alpha, but I personally avoid taking desperate decoy no matter what. I want direct control over my stealth/interruptions. I’ve been killed more than once by an ill-times desperate decoy proc.

Agreed.

Anyone suggesting it as meta, or running it as such has poor judgement and should be dismissed.

Edit:.. with love.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/ATTN-Completely-Broken-Chrono-Build/first#post5562474
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAR8encfC1qhlpB2fCEgilTjiMAWggqMDauwp+Zz2tF-TZBGABeXGAgLAQaHEgDeCA2s/AA

Speak on what you know, not what you assume. Else you dismiss supcutie, and also helseth for their poor judgement. I won’t speak on their decisions to run the trait, but I know my opinion that if you are a competent player in pvp the proccing of the trait will be less of an issue than the almost unavoidable instant deaths you can encounter.

Daniel Handler.4816:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Fay.2357:

Daniel Handler.4816:

AlphatheWhite.9351:

adelaide.6213:

Fay.2357:

WvW roaming: Split. Why? Because this is the one aspect of the game that base Mesmer is actually good at.

It’s not that Chronomancer is overwhelmingly better than base Mesmer, it’s that base Mesmer just sucks.

Could you link or detail a build that would not be arguably improved by swapping out a trait line with Chrono?

I personally would always use chrono just because of the QoL movespeed while roaming.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhQQNArfWlsnhK0YnbwRNwtGLvGkZHG+IKnQvjGaAyZTA-TFyCABAcIAU4JFs3+DIfCFNIYp87S1f0TfxYKBDAgAMzysMnZ6W36W3G6QH6QH6QbmzcmzcmzsQALWDA-w

Again you forget you to use desperate decoy >.<
This time its because you must remember neither phantasm you have is multi hit, so making them crit is not a necessity.
The synergy between DD and PU is not to be missed.

In fact that synergy is so good it has become meta in pvp. As DD + PU + Runes of The Vampirism means every minute any BS +HS from a thief will make you stealth and invuln.

I can’t speak for alpha, but I personally avoid taking desperate decoy no matter what. I want direct control over my stealth/interruptions. I’ve been killed more than once by an ill-times desperate decoy proc.

Agreed.

Anyone suggesting it as meta, or running it as such has poor judgement and should be dismissed.

Edit:.. with love.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/ATTN-Completely-Broken-Chrono-Build/first#post5562474
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAR8encfC1qhlpB2fCEgilTjiMAWggqMDauwp+Zz2tF-TZBGABeXGAgLAQaHEgDeCA2s/AA

Speak on what you know, not what you assume. Else you dismiss supcutie, and also helseth for their poor judgement. I won’t speak on their decisions to run the trait, but I know my opinion that if you are a competent player in pvp the proccing of the trait will be less of an issue than the almost unavoidable instant deaths you can encounter.

Helseth, in his usual Helseth manner, kittened and moaned about DD because of it’s inherent flaws. This is what I know.

I also know that there is at least one other viable trait choice in that line with no downsides, so it’s not as though DD is an “only option” sort of option.

So ahh, there’s two things that I know.

Oh, and competent players can avoid death without DD. So yeah.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Fay.2357:

Daniel Handler.4816:

AlphatheWhite.9351:

adelaide.6213:

Fay.2357:

WvW roaming: Split. Why? Because this is the one aspect of the game that base Mesmer is actually good at.

It’s not that Chronomancer is overwhelmingly better than base Mesmer, it’s that base Mesmer just sucks.

Could you link or detail a build that would not be arguably improved by swapping out a trait line with Chrono?

I personally would always use chrono just because of the QoL movespeed while roaming.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhQQNArfWlsnhK0YnbwRNwtGLvGkZHG+IKnQvjGaAyZTA-TFyCABAcIAU4JFs3+DIfCFNIYp87S1f0TfxYKBDAgAMzysMnZ6W36W3G6QH6QH6QbmzcmzcmzsQALWDA-w

Again you forget you to use desperate decoy >.<
This time its because you must remember neither phantasm you have is multi hit, so making them crit is not a necessity.
The synergy between DD and PU is not to be missed.

In fact that synergy is so good it has become meta in pvp. As DD + PU + Runes of The Vampirism means every minute any BS +HS from a thief will make you stealth and invuln.

I can’t speak for alpha, but I personally avoid taking desperate decoy no matter what. I want direct control over my stealth/interruptions. I’ve been killed more than once by an ill-times desperate decoy proc.

Agreed.

Anyone suggesting it as meta, or running it as such has poor judgement and should be dismissed.

Edit:.. with love.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/ATTN-Completely-Broken-Chrono-Build/first#post5562474
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAR8encfC1qhlpB2fCEgilTjiMAWggqMDauwp+Zz2tF-TZBGABeXGAgLAQaHEgDeCA2s/AA

Speak on what you know, not what you assume. Else you dismiss supcutie, and also helseth for their poor judgement. I won’t speak on their decisions to run the trait, but I know my opinion that if you are a competent player in pvp the proccing of the trait will be less of an issue than the almost unavoidable instant deaths you can encounter.

Helseth, in his usual Helseth manner, kittened and moaned about DD because of it’s inherent flaws. This is what I know.

I also know that there is at least one other viable trait choice in that line with no downsides, so it’s not as though DD is an “only option” sort of option.

So ahh, there’s two things that I know.

Oh, and competent players can avoid death without DD. So yeah.

Yet both run the trait and supcutie and helseth have proven themselves more than competent players. And no, there are some deaths that only DD plus vampirism will prevent. The downside to running phantasmal fury is you lose out on a defensive trait. People already run marauders and have good fury access, there is absolutely no reason to run a trait just so iZerker will have a 90% crit rate and not a 70% one.

Fay, Ross, et al are correct: I don’t run DD because it loses me fights.
This is a condi build, not a power build, so I don’t have Vampirism for that extra synergy. Helseth and supcutie both are running power, aren’t they?

Meanwhile, DD also has a history of causing me to be revealed at awkward moments, handicapping me undesirably, given how reliant I am on stealth.

For the chrono variant, as we discussed in the other thread, the relatively lower uptime on my stealth makes Desperate Decoy more of a bargain, and less of a liability (getting interrupted during a stomp is still no fun, obviously).

My final decision doesn’t come down to theory, however, it comes down to practice: I’ve found that I do worse with DD than without. If there’s a skill gap preventing me from using it correctly, so be it: I’ll get around to it after I’ve dealt with my other, more pressing, skill weaknesses.

AlphatheWhite.9351:

Fay, Ross, et al are correct: I don’t run DD because it loses me fights.
This is a condi build, not a power build, so I don’t have Vampirism for that extra synergy. Helseth and supcutie both are running power, aren’t they?

Meanwhile, DD also has a history of causing me to be revealed at awkward moments, handicapping me undesirably, given how reliant I am on stealth.

For the chrono variant, as we discussed in the other thread, the relatively lower uptime on my stealth makes Desperate Decoy more of a bargain, and less of a liability (getting interrupted during a stomp is still no fun, obviously).

My final decision doesn’t come down to theory, however, it comes down to practice: I’ve found that I do worse with DD than without. If there’s a skill gap preventing me from using it correctly, so be it: I’ll get around to it after I’ve dealt with my other, more pressing, skill weaknesses.

I appreciate your admittance it could be a skill gap, rather than resorting to Ross’ claim of incompetence on those who do.

keenlam.4753:

When u want to run the following archetype spec instead?
1. PU Condi (Duel/Chaos/Illu)
2. Selfish Highest Burst Dmg (Dom/Duel/Illu)

I am among the minority thinking elite specs in the long-term are actually both horizontal and vertical (diagonal???) progression for the base class.

Say in the long run, we have 3-4 elite specs to choose from. Players will end up leveling as a mesmer, knowing enough about the core class but the end-game is to specialize.

I really like this answer. It made me worry less that chrono is forcing build diversity changes. Rather I just accepted that there will be more elite specializations that make the core look inadequate, and the true diversity will be in which elite you pick.

Daniel Handler.4816:

I appreciate your admittance it could be a skill gap, rather than resorting to Ross’ claim of incompetence on those who do.

You missed my post. Please explain to me how skill has anything to do with this situation:

Embolism.8106:

No, otherwise I would’ve gotten the stomp off and turned a 2v1 into a duel, instead I don’t and the guy gets ressed.

Unless you’re suggesting I always Distort when I stomp or run around until I get below 50% and proc Decoy… well, either way I’d consider it a hindrance rather than a benefit. And personally it works against me more often than it helps.

And this is just one example. There are lots of other situations where Decoy means you either have to do something to prevent it proccing, or wait for it to proc first; either of which is 100% a con rather than a pro that no amount of skill can turn around.

Daniel Handler.4816:

keenlam.4753:

When u want to run the following archetype spec instead?
1. PU Condi (Duel/Chaos/Illu)
2. Selfish Highest Burst Dmg (Dom/Duel/Illu)

I am among the minority thinking elite specs in the long-term are actually both horizontal and vertical (diagonal???) progression for the base class.

Say in the long run, we have 3-4 elite specs to choose from. Players will end up leveling as a mesmer, knowing enough about the core class but the end-game is to specialize.

I really like this answer. It made me worry less that chrono is forcing build diversity changes. Rather I just accepted that there will be more elite specializations that make the core look inadequate, and the true diversity will be in which elite you pick.

I am not convinced the elite spec system will remain the same with the next one. I think a-net will keep the elite specs as ways to add new content, but I think some of the concepts will change. For example, I really think the restriction on weapons/utilities will be removed (ok maybe it’s more of a hope) and that elite specs will just be trait lines that also change the class mechanics. Many weapons are very needed in many types of gameplay and it would be very restrictive not to have access to them in the future elite specs.

If this changes, elite specs will become a bit less mandatory. Sure, they synergies well with the weapons, but are not needed for it.

Silverkey.2078:

For example, I really think the restriction on weapons/utilities will be removed (ok maybe it’s more of a hope) and that elite specs will just be trait lines that also change the class mechanics.

Given that some weapons incorporate Elite mechanics (e.g. Alacrity on Mesmer Shield), I think that’s highly unlikely unless the weapons themselves receive changes (to remove said Elite mechanics).

Embolism.8106:

Silverkey.2078:

For example, I really think the restriction on weapons/utilities will be removed (ok maybe it’s more of a hope) and that elite specs will just be trait lines that also change the class mechanics.

Given that some weapons incorporate Elite mechanics (e.g. Alacrity on Mesmer Shield), I think that’s highly unlikely unless the weapons themselves receive changes (to remove said Elite mechanics).

Well I don’t think having alacrity out of chrono (honestly, you won’t get much alacrity from just shield and well of recall) is a problem. Also, the shield is a much needed weapon for mesmer (we do not have great defensive weapons outside of staff if you don’t count stealth), and I do not even mention Reaper and its greatsword (or maybe I just did). The weapons were often filling a strong gap in the core profession. Any future elite spec would always start at a disadvantage since they again start on a flawed core.

Silverkey.2078:

Any future elite spec would always start at a disadvantage since they again start on a flawed core.

Which is my biggest gripe with Elite specs. A lot of fixes that should’ve went into the core professions went into these instead. Does this mean future Elites will need to incorporate the same fixes? Why not start with a solid foundation? Would be easier to develop and mitigate accusations of P2W. (or Pay for Fixes as it were).

Daniel Handler.4816:

AlphatheWhite.9351:

Fay, Ross, et al are correct: I don’t run DD because it loses me fights.
This is a condi build, not a power build, so I don’t have Vampirism for that extra synergy. Helseth and supcutie both are running power, aren’t they?

Meanwhile, DD also has a history of causing me to be revealed at awkward moments, handicapping me undesirably, given how reliant I am on stealth.

For the chrono variant, as we discussed in the other thread, the relatively lower uptime on my stealth makes Desperate Decoy more of a bargain, and less of a liability (getting interrupted during a stomp is still no fun, obviously).

My final decision doesn’t come down to theory, however, it comes down to practice: I’ve found that I do worse with DD than without. If there’s a skill gap preventing me from using it correctly, so be it: I’ll get around to it after I’ve dealt with my other, more pressing, skill weaknesses.

I appreciate your admittance it could be a skill gap, rather than resorting to Ross’ claim of incompetence on those who do.

Erase the Helseth QQ vid over DD from the internet, and then we’ll talk :)

Ross Biddle.2367:

Daniel Handler.4816:

AlphatheWhite.9351:

Fay, Ross, et al are correct: I don’t run DD because it loses me fights.
This is a condi build, not a power build, so I don’t have Vampirism for that extra synergy. Helseth and supcutie both are running power, aren’t they?

Meanwhile, DD also has a history of causing me to be revealed at awkward moments, handicapping me undesirably, given how reliant I am on stealth.

For the chrono variant, as we discussed in the other thread, the relatively lower uptime on my stealth makes Desperate Decoy more of a bargain, and less of a liability (getting interrupted during a stomp is still no fun, obviously).

My final decision doesn’t come down to theory, however, it comes down to practice: I’ve found that I do worse with DD than without. If there’s a skill gap preventing me from using it correctly, so be it: I’ll get around to it after I’ve dealt with my other, more pressing, skill weaknesses.

I appreciate your admittance it could be a skill gap, rather than resorting to Ross’ claim of incompetence on those who do.

Erase the Helseth QQ vid over DD from the internet, and then we’ll talk

He gripes but he uses it. As well as supcutie. I don’t see your point.

Daniel Handler.4816:

He gripes but he uses it.

No. No you do not -_-u

He admits the inherent flaws. Even sheds tears over them. And still uses it.

If he wants to use it, ok, cool, I don’t really care. Yet we’re discussing the semantics of competence.

BTW, quoting names doesn’t necessarily amount to anything, though your propensity to do it is notable. I get you want to dismiss the point because I’ve contradicted two “names” (Helseth/Supcutie), but I dismissed Helseths opinions on “Scepter AA clone spam becoming the new Mesmer meta” in the same fashion. I.e. on principled grounds.

So yeah, names, cool.

The point to all this was, you faulted Alpha for not running it (for a second time as your post stated), yet there’s profoundly strong reasons for him not to take DD and profoundly strong reasons to just take Phant Fury instead.

Oh and ahh, I’ve also noticed you seem to interchange between WvW and PvP builds (the build linked was a WvW setup btw). You made some comment before about upping Phant crit chance from 70% to 90% which, while more plausable in WvW, isnt the case in any PvP meta build. You’re talking assassin trinket + accuracy sigil, or a mes/pack rune (instead of vamp). Some combination of “non-meta” anyway, in an argument you’re making under the guise of “meta”.