Guild Wars 2

Hi all,

I’m looking for some honest advice.
I played mesmer near launch (to later give up for Guardian). Recently I’ve been finding my Guardian a little stale in PvP. I was thinking of giving Mesmer a go again but had a few questions.
How good are mesmers in PvP? Sometimes I hear they are deadly, other times sub-par?
How steep is the learning curve for a PvP mesmer? They are a tricky profession to grasp I know, but is it even harder in PvP?
What builds are most effective these days/ what are current metas?

In your honest opinion, is the mesmer in a good spot in PvP right now? Or should I follow the trends and opt for a celementalist / celengineer?

Mesmer is my main and I find it very deadly in sPvP. I don’t know about the learning curve since I spent 4k+ hours as a mesmer in total, it just comes natural to me now.
About the meta you can find everything you need to know here http://metabattle.com/wiki/MetaBattle_Wiki
Also some twitch streamers are listed there to help you see some tactics and such.

For builds I find shatter only viable at the moment, some condi mesmers can be annoying but I still think shatter is deadlier.

And about your question if a mesmer is in a good spot right now… I honestly can answer correctly. In my opinion it depends on the player. Mesmer will either be a huge weakness in your team or a great asset. I haven’t seen anything in between.

the metabuild runs gs and staff shatter for the vulnerabilty stacking, but I still think gs sw/x variants are better for overall survivabilty.

you’ll be fine in pugs, in a premade mesmer is the weak link.

Hey man, I think mesmer is really friggin powerful but extremely hard to play, one single mini mistake against decent players will mean your death. Your positioning needs to be spot on, (I’m making it a little bit of a bigger deal than it is, but it really has to be very, very, very good) you need to learn everything other classes need to learn (class specific matchups, your team role, how you should rotate, work on your symbiosis with the thief, communication, cooldown management, positioning) + kiting spots, troll jumps, LOS locations, basically if you wan’t to be a good mesmer you have to use the terrain to survive which most people don’t do as it takes a long time to learn. I’ve been trying to find all the spots for around a year now, I don’t think I have them all.
Other classes can learn this, they don’t have to and they will still work well, but with mesmer it’s sort of mandatory.
The big issue with mesmer is that its very dependant on a good team.
If your team isn’t supporting you then you will die a lot.
If you learn the terrain usage and a lot of different stuff then your team has to do less to help you out.

If you were to draw a graph on how skilled you have to be on mesmer to do well, the function would go something like:

your skill level = enemy skill level / (100-your teams skill level)

presuming you found a way to measure skill from 1 to 100.

In my opinion mesmer is one of the hardest classes to play well. 2nd hardest is thief , a bit easier in my opinion, not by a lot. (We’re talking against players that aren’t bunny ranks, players like TCG, 55HP,Abjured and most mediocore/almost high level teams) At the moment though, in top tier play, the level of skill you have to have on mesmer to preform at the same level as any of the other classes is through the roof. Extremely hard.
Mesmer is not forgiving but it is really, really rewarding. If you don’t like big challenges, I’d suggest you try some other class.

All that said, if you decide to start learning mesmer, the community is great and I’m sure many of us would love to help you out.
Feel free to whisper me in game and I will show you as much as I possibly can, answer all the questions that I can answer. I know for a fact Helseth and Supcutie are both really, really kind, cool, awesome, charismatic guys who don’t mind giving advice. I’ve learned a lot from them both.

For a good start I’d really highly suggest taking a look at my written guide (first link in signature), spamming all the top mesmers with questions and watching Helseth and Supcutie streams 24/7 (both are linked in my guide) I’m also making a massive video guide which will include everything you need to know to play at top tier play (watching that of course won’t make you top tier player but it will give you all the things you need to master in order to become one) It’s still a work in progress though and it just started a week or two ago.

Also, I highly recommend you give lockdown mesmer a try. It’s a really different setup, more forgiving to play but requires insane awareness of whats going on.
In a nutshell mesmer has insane potential but it takes a very, very skilled individual to make it show.

Mesmer in sPvP… Well tbh it’ll probably get more stale than your guardian and a lot faster but you’re welcome to give it a shot…

Your build choices are pretty vague and you can experiment a lot but if you want to actually contribute to a team then Full Glkittenter is pretty much the only option at this time. Most people bring a GS/Staff.

Mesmer is not in a great standing at this time mostly thanks to the 3 Cele professions, its hard having to run a 0 sustain burst class vs the might stacking sustained burst meta. We’re also still thief food for the most part.

Basically if you’re going to run a meta mesmer in a match these days you’re either going to have a great time stomping on your foes or a terrible time constantly getting stomped on until you afk or the match ends…

If you don’t want to argue to earn a slot on a team or dont want to be babysat should you choose to push a point or try to decap something… then roll something else.

If you don’t mind the occasional “we have a mesmer, gg” comments (yes these are intended to be mean) or whispers from small children accusing you of cheating or hacking.. If you don’t mind only really having 1 build to pick from unless you find or create a team that will work around you and allow you to experiment with other things..

If you dont mind those then Sure Mesmer might be the refreshing thing for you.

1 problem here. A good mesmer contributes to game the same like an average ele/guard/etc. But if you are not very good – you are burden for your team

Mesmer are good in low to mid levels. Shatter spec would help your team the most. There are other specs can also work if you play well. In high levels, thieves will be big problems for you. Also, low margin of error can make you punch your screen sometimes.

So I’ve been playing sPvP solidly for the past two months and while I understand where most of the above is coming from, my views on Mesmer in spvp differ from the overly regurgitated wisdom of the masses.

I put up a thread the other week you should have a look at
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Learning-the-trade-of-PvP/first#

IP Shatter is our best build? Yeah ok, sure, whatever. Unfortunately I think shatter is wildly predictable, thieves eat it alive, and running into and out of the fight constantly makes this mesmer build a liability for any team. Don’t get me wrong, it’s got a load of power and the boon stripping is fantastic. In skilled hands its even more deadly, but even in skilled hands it’ll always be predictable, thief food, and running out of the fight between assaults.

Lockdown Mesmers on the otherhand, whether CS or CI, these are the true Gods of the battlefield, and i don’t say that just to stroke my own play style. Lockdown Mesmers can bring everything important to the match that a shatter mesmer can, whether boon strip or burst, and more. Why? Because interrupts and skill lockouts are king. It doesn’t matter how much cele an ele can bring when hes chain CC’d to the ground. Mesmer will never be able to carry a match all on his own class, he’s no guardian able to bunker a point vs a team effort to remove him, but guardians are no mesmers either and a good mesmer with the right tools can be a match decider if everyone’s doing their job.

Shatter is a very simple play setup. You can probably just dive straight in and be helpful, though you’ll suffer its pitfalls. Lockdown is far more rich with way more to think about if you want to get cerebral and want to make your enemies plans suffer.

Also, if you’re wanting to go conditions then shatter Maim isnt bad. You can use rabid, or even celestial if you’re feeling a bit squishy while you’re learning. There’s a variety of trait layouts and a thread with them all if you dig for it.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Lockdown Mesmers on the otherhand, whether CS or CI, these are the true Gods of the battlefield, and i don’t say that just to stroke my own play style. Lockdown Mesmers can bring everything important to the match that a shatter mesmer can, whether boon strip or burst, and more. Why? Because interrupts and skill lockouts are king. It doesn’t matter how much cele an ele can bring when hes chain CC’d to the ground. Mesmer will never be able to carry a match all on his own class, he’s no guardian able to bunker a point vs a team effort to remove him, but guardians are no mesmers either and a good mesmer with the right tools can be a match decider if everyone’s doing their job.

Shatter is a very simple play setup. You can probably just dive straight in and be helpful, though you’ll suffer its pitfalls. Lockdown is far more rich with way more to think.

First time I have ever seen someone say this that isn’t Chaos or myself. Nice to know you think Lockdown has a lot of potential, we gotta convince the top players it’s good now, which I’ve been trying to do since we made the CI build 1 year ago

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Lockdown Mesmers on the otherhand, whether CS or CI, these are the true Gods of the battlefield, and i don’t say that just to stroke my own play style. Lockdown Mesmers can bring everything important to the match that a shatter mesmer can, whether boon strip or burst, and more. Why? Because interrupts and skill lockouts are king. It doesn’t matter how much cele an ele can bring when hes chain CC’d to the ground. Mesmer will never be able to carry a match all on his own class, he’s no guardian able to bunker a point vs a team effort to remove him, but guardians are no mesmers either and a good mesmer with the right tools can be a match decider if everyone’s doing their job.

Shatter is a very simple play setup. You can probably just dive straight in and be helpful, though you’ll suffer its pitfalls. Lockdown is far more rich with way more to think.

First time I have ever seen someone say this that isn’t Chaos or myself. Nice to know you think Lockdown has a lot of potential, we gotta convince the top players it’s good now, which I’ve been trying to do since we made the CI build 1 year ago

I wouldn’t bother. Either one of two things is occurring with them. They’re either old and stuck in their ways, or they don’t have what it takes to run the interrupt playstyle. In the first case, ignorance can’t be helped. You might aswell spend your time bashing your head against a brick wall. In the second, they’re stronger sticking to what they know as they’re probably better at it, and will be better at it than running something they’re not geared for.

This isnt to dig at them, nor say they’re not awesome at what they do. It’s just a bit of realism. The only way a lockdown mes is going to make a show in one of those grand tornys is if one rises with a team to do the job. Of course if there were one able to make that sort of commitment, they’d of been there for a long time already.

I’m pretty sure I remember Helseth telling me lockdown has more potential than shatter but that he cba to learn CI again as it’s a much different playstyle.

@Ross I can agree with that. After all, the only mes that plays on the top level on NA are zero and supcutie and they both have told me they are simply better with shatter. All I need to do is find a good team to show some people how lockdown mes is done

@Jurica I will show Helseth some moves when I transfer to EU in a couple of days to help him get comfortable with CI

Well its nice to have my assessment confirmed :p

Well if we disregard the bugs with illusions that you encounter daily, phantasms being oneshot and most likely the lowest amount of viable Sigils/Runes, they are okaish I guess.

What I would like is a little bit of this
http://i.imgur.com/kEI6pIE.png

CruleD.7380:

Well if we disregard the bugs with illusions that you encounter daily, phantasms being oneshot and most likely the lowest amount of viable Sigils/Runes, they are okaish I guess.

What I would like is a little bit of this
http://i.imgur.com/kEI6pIE.png

6.9? I’ve been hit for consecutive 9.5’s.

Yeah Deathly Claws is pretty OPd and makes me feel a bit inadequate at times as well, but it is on a 3m RuT and can be avoided or countered with Moa. Still it’s pretty ridiculous and needs a nerf, or it would simply be nice if we could have an Elite that has as much impact and general usefulness as many popular Elites of other professions do. (less situational I mean)

None the less, as far as damage goes, we can definitely put up some comparable numbers with the iMage, iZerger, or a nice MW. We can also chain quite a few decent wallops together, and produce similar damage in AoE rather then single target; for us it’s just not a 1 button spam fest like in those SSs. /cry

As stated repeatedly here and elsewhere, Mesmer just tends to be harder to succeed with, and much easier to fail with then most other professions w/meta builds.

• How good are mesmers in PvP? Sometimes I hear they are deadly, other times sub-par?
  It really depends on how competitive you’re looking to become. In most cases a well played Mesmer can be a strong asset to a team in different ways (depending on the build) but as you climb to higher competitive levels it becomes more difficult to remain effective. At the peak of competitive level (like top 15 or so) you’ll find very few Mesmer, since at the moment Celestial builds are dominating.

• How steep is the learning curve for a PvP mesmer? They are a tricky profession to grasp I know, but is it even harder in PvP?
  I’ve taught a lot of Mesmers, and dude there is a lot to learn. Most builds feel uncomfortable at first until you start to understand their rhythm. I’d recommend starting with a 4/4/0/0/6 Shatter build, since it forces you to learn all the nuances about the class and can be really rewarding when you do.
  And yes, Mesmer is harder in PvP than in PvE, but also much more fun to play.

• What builds are most effective these days/ what are current metas?
  Most proven effective right now are 4/4/0/0/6 Shatter and 4/4/6/0/0 lockdown, the current “meta” for the most competitive Mesmer is the shatter build mentioned. That being said, people have managed to make Condition Shatter/PU Condition/ Stunlock (Confounding Suggestions) lockdown and a few custom builds work. Once you learn the classes mechanics and traits, you can usually make a build that suits your style.

As an aside, you’ll hear a lot of mixed feelings about Mesmer; the best thing to do is to simply jump in and form your own opinion. What Swish said in his post isn’t necessarily wrong but it is heavily influenced by his personal experiences which seem to be vastly different from my own. Since launch and to this day I’ve had a blast on my mesmer, especially in PvP and haven’t really ever ran into the issues he posted, but others have.

At the end of the day it comes down to exactly how competitive you really wanna be, and how much you enjoy your build.. so get out there and explore!

just like to add 1 thing if you go 4 , 4, 0 , 0, 6 you will be melted over and over. imo that build is only good when you are in a premade or have mad mad skills. I would start with a more defensive build if you are just starting out pvp or solo Que. To play a shatter style you just need the 4 , 4 the other 6 pts can be spend else where . You lose some burst but gain a lot less insta gibs by thieves and rangers.