Guild Wars 2

This isn’t specifically geared towards PvP, but all modes, even PvE.

There once was a time wayyy back before confusion was so foolishly nerfed that I ran a condi build that I love, but since then I’ve become so used to running power builds that I simply can’t find a reason to run condition damage for any build anymore.

So I extend the question out, for PvP, WvW, or even PvE, why do you choose condi over power?

Pre-confusion nerf, the confusion shatter build was a ton of fun in wvw. That said, it relied on opponents blowing themselves up because they didn’t notice the 15 stacks of confusion that hit for 5k on each skill use. Even with confusion damage back, I’m not sure it’d be effective today.

Survivability in my case, i can’t have decent survivability with a power shater spec. Our mobility is low and no decent player is fooled by our illusions. I tend to pvp alone so a power spec is not the best for that.

Pre-confusion nerf …

• It was the best way to kill bad players who just skill spam … so gratifying.

Post-confusion nerf …

• It allows me to take more survivability stats.
• Between [Illusionary Retribution] and [Maim the Disillusioned], all of my shatters are providing condition damage as opposed to a power build where the offense is mainly Mind Wrack with some clutch interrupts with Diversion from time to time
• It allows our most damaging clones (Staff and Scepter) to be even bigger threats
• It makes sharper images even more dangerous

I can’t say that I play condi for the survivability. But that’s because I most often do it with a Rampager Amulet (though I mix Rampager/Sinister/Berserker in open world PvE sometimes — condis are great versus the husks in the Silverwastes.)

I think that maim applies a lot of pressure. And since f1 and f2 are on pretty short cooldowns, in a duel, or a 1v2, cleansing one shatter isn’t all that bad ’cause I just have another lined up. Also, with staff, GS and scepter clones, you have some reliable bleed stackers (and the pistol phant, duh).

Now that I think of it, no build I have ever played has ever been made for outright “toughness.” When I play condi, it’s to spike some pressure. I’ve done MtD with Sword-Torch/Sc-P and I’ve done it with GS/Staff. The first is a great assaulter, the second can wreak absolute havok at a mid-point. I realize GS is a weird choice, but the zerker applies cripple and a knockback, so even as a “fragile” condi, I can sit at 1,200 range and do damage.

The first set, I will say, does way better against thieves (and way back, Aeo, you dueled me while I used that set). It’s pretty slippery. And it’s what I use in WvW roaming as a hybrid.

I really enjoy various MtD builds ranging from standard to pretty whack, in both unranked arena and WvW solo roaming. Although at times it can be frustrating in group fights, especially on-point group fights, overall it’s an excellent package of damage and survivability. You don’t have to run scared from Thieves or rely on your team to keep you alive.

Especially in WvW solo roaming where you mostly fight Thieves, it can be a really satisfying build as it’s simply more active and less reliant on poor enemy play then say a PU Condie build is.

All that said, it’s still just a smidgen short of totally competitive IMO, but I am confident that Condie/MtD builds will be significantly stronger after the release of HoT.

IP alone is a huge boon to all MtD builds, as are the new MS, AE blind on Shatter, and Confusing Combatants. I can see Dueling/Illusions/Chronomancy being really strong as MtD can actually make use of all the illusions you can produce, and you get to double up on your main burst shatter thanks to the new F5 shatter.

I think this will largely put an end to the easy countering of MtD with passive condition cleanses. You will have the Clones and the shatters to just keep pumping out AE Torment & Confusion, and gain more cover conditions from Dueling as well.

Of course, Power Shatter and Lockdown are also getting huge improvements, so it’s very hard to say whether MtD will still end up playing catch-up.

Before the confusion nerf and blinding beffudlement nerf, I used to enjoy glamour/confusion because I was a total noob and plastering AoE stuff everywhere and letting people kill themselves was the easiest thing to do.

After the nerf I thought I’d never go back to condi – thought I’d play exclusively power builds (mainly shatter), but I got an itch to play a “controlling” manipulative playstyle using the focus – which eventually led me back to condi with skcamow’s Chaotic Perdition condirupt build. I love the survivability and the mind games with traited focus, mantra of distraction, staff and mirror heal.

Tbh I never really thought much of condition shatter until very recently – instead being a die hard power shatter fan, but the low burst damage of the above condirupt build forced me to look for something with similar tankiness but more damage output – because the above condirupt build has very low burst potential.

Now I seriously enjoy it and believe that since it will be hugely buffed with HoT I might end up running condition shatter builds most of the time – because I can run sword/torch plus staff and still do good damage output – unlike power shatter where you kind of need greatsword nowadays to be a serious threat.

Windwalker.7421:

I really enjoy various MtD builds ranging from standard to pretty whack, in both unranked arena and WvW solo roaming. Although at times it can be frustrating in group fights, especially on-point group fights, overall it’s an excellent package of damage and survivability. You don’t have to run scared from Thieves or rely on your team to keep you alive.

Especially in WvW solo roaming where you mostly fight Thieves, it can be a really satisfying build as it’s simply more active and less reliant on poor enemy play then say a PU Condie build is.

All that said, it’s still just a smidgen short of totally competitive IMO, but I am confident that Condie/MtD builds will be significantly stronger after the release of HoT.

IP alone is a huge boon to all MtD builds, as are the new MS, AE blind on Shatter, and Confusing Combatants. I can see Dueling/Illusions/Chronomancy being really strong as MtD can actually make use of all the illusions you can produce, and you get to double up on your main burst shatter thanks to the new F5 shatter.

I think this will largely put an end to the easy countering of MtD with passive condition cleanses. You will have the Clones and the shatters to just keep pumping out AE Torment & Confusion, and gain more cover conditions from Dueling as well.

Of course, Power Shatter and Lockdown are also getting huge improvements, so it’s very hard to say whether MtD will still end up playing catch-up.

Yeah I totally agree.

I think there will be other problems to deal with (Resistance boon and Revenants chucking conditions back in our faces), but baseline IP will be the best buff for condition shatter.

But Maim with alacrity, baseline IP, and all the other huge buffs should be amazing.

EDIT: OOPS sory for the double post – I meant to edit my previous post! :o

i like condi as you need a different approach then power
power need you to look for the right moment to burst and is mainly 1v1
condi needs you to drain your enemy utilities, endurance and defenses so you can take him and can be used in 1vX

also i got board with power builds as they have the same combo over and over while
with mtd i can use all my F skills (and i must) and look for more combos abilities

with loackdown also fun build but more patient build and group oriented

I’m curious about a Condition build with both Illusions, Dueling, and Chronomancer.

• Illusions and Chronomancer is going to help make our cooldowns even less. Dueling too if you take Pistol and/or they improve the Sword trait.
• Dueling and Illusions are going to provide us with more condition application … Chronomancer too with slow … though that doesn’t do dmg.
• Dueling and Chronomancer can help with illusion generation … as can lower cooldowns, of course.

I’m likely to try to swap in Chaos at sometime because Staff and Chaos Armor … so good.

Sebrent.3625:

I’m curious about a Condition build with both Illusions, Dueling, and Chronomancer.

• Illusions and Chronomancer is going to help make our cooldowns even less. Dueling too if you take Pistol and/or they improve the Sword trait.
• Dueling and Illusions are going to provide us with more condition application … Chronomancer too with slow … though that doesn’t do dmg.
• Dueling and Chronomancer can help with illusion generation … as can lower cooldowns, of course.

I’m likely to try to swap in Chaos at sometime because Staff and Chaos Armor … so good.

There’s a few permutations but I’m not sure which will be best suited to which role.

Illusions for Maim and other condition bonuses is a given, Chronomancer for movement speed, alacrity, clones/phantasms back on shatter, quickness on shatter and super speed for illusions on shatter. I think both these trait lines will be optimal for condition shatter (I know other possibilities like Duelling/Inspiration/Illusions should be good but I have a feeling I may become addicted to Alacrity!) so that just leaves one space.

As for the third trait line – well it’s a toss up between Duelling, Inspiration and Chaos.

I think Illusions/Chronomancer/Chaos it will be the best condition shatter roaming setup – with x/torch and staff, PU MtD and staff trait for ridiculous protection uptime. The only downside is condition removal so torch trait plus some utility would be necessary.

Illusions/Chronomancer/Inspiration could be the best tank given mender’s purity, RI and SC. Could run Scepter/Shield + Staff or x/Torch. Not sure what role this might be best for – perhaps just an alternate roaming setup but lacks the extended stealth disengage. Perhaps the condition removal and heal on shatter will be better though – who knows. It does allow for a choice of utilities though because of the built in condition removal, so perhaps wider scope for things like taking Portal or Feedback or even a Well.

And I think Illusions/Chronomancer/Duelling will be the most beneficial condition shatter spec for pvp – because of always having enough illusions for full 3 or 4 clone shatters as well as the on crit bleeding/confusion. Downside is sustain comared to Chaos or Inspiration – but if in a small group with cleansing guardians or whatever it should hopefully bring a lot of pain.

@Curunen.8729:
All I can really say to that is “I concur”. You summed up those condi-shatter options nicely.

I will be curious to see if we see the rise of condi-interrupt builds. The traits for it are there. Some friends of mine already do something similar to what I think that would be like, but as a duo of Condi-Engi and Venom-Share Thief. They Basilisk Venom/Daze/Etc. the target while also loading them with confusion. Since most classes don’t have a combine stunbreak/cleanse ability AND they can cover the confusion with other conditions, their victims are stuck between (1) using a stunbreak and eating damage from several stacks of confusion (2) Eating the full duration of each disable which much means more damage applied to them in both direct and condition form.

I could see an condi-interrupt build doing that. “Hello gent, you’re about to alternate being being dazed/stunned so you can’t do anything and having enough confusion on you that you don’t want to do anything. Let’s play.”

@Sebrent – The biggest difficulty is waiting!

I would really like to roam with sword/torch + staff condition shatter and take torment runes now, but if I run that set I have to currently take traveler. :/

Condirupt with perplexity runes, offhand pistol and mistrust should be nasty (duelling/chaos/… don’t know which will be best out of illusions, chrono or possibly inspiration).

I enjoy watching people kill themselves. Torment + Confusion = Pseudo-Lockdown or Death.

I find it especially hilarious when a thief tries to get their mesmer kill of the day and I shatter them up until they try to run away, but by then its too late.

I like MtD condition build because it stacks conditions that most other classes can’t cap. I know, bleed and burning but almost everything applies bleed in this game, it’s like the go to condition for minors.

On the other hand, I’m always concerned about the confusion application. Confusion is really strong especially when paired with torment as it more or less forces them to be extremely careful about moving and activating skills. This is not bad per say but some classes are way more dependant on using skills than others.

We’ll see what HoT brings. I hope they make these rarer runes a tad easier or more universal to obtain outside of PvP. Full torment or perplexity runes are very expensive.

I was a graduate of the shift in wvw to PU builds, and I already adored staff. Now I play it because it fits my playstyle.

HEY MESMER FORUM! Sorry I’ve been on a long-ish hiatus as of late. I’ll be back to action after my life calms down in the coming weeks… Now onto my answer:

• I’m not bogged down by taking specific utilities (Blink, Decoy mainly), which allows me to fit into a more specialized role depending on what whacky build I’m trying. Now in terms of optimization, I DO use blink/decoy in my competitive condi shatter build… that being said, you still don’t have the amount of reliance on such utilities as you would if you were using other specs.
• I am typically able to take many more hits due to using a Rabid amulet. The lower health isn’t as big of an issue as people think. Taking more hits means you’re able to have more time to respond to emergency situations.
• I have a lower risk lower reward mentality that is more comfortable for my play style. I like knowing that I can make more mistakes if need be. Also, if I’m facing a glassier spec, I know that I can capitalize on their mistakes more brutally. Basically, I like battles where the longer they go, the more likely I am to win.
• More sources of damage in condi specs means more overall pressure, which I prefer. The flip side is that there’s no such thing as “burst” in a traditional sense. i.e. condi shatters all do significant dmg where as a power shatter’s burst comes with F1 and sometimes F3 (Halting Strike).

Btw, this is ALL from a pvp perspective.

Lastly, I have some GREAT footage of my playing condi shatter in ranked with a 5-man team. Now the hard part is just putting it together. It’s still on my list of gw2 things to do. BE PATIENT WITH CHO!

MailMail.6534:

HEY MESMER FORUM! Sorry I’ve been on a long-ish hiatus as of late. I’ll be back to action after my life calms down in the coming weeks… Now onto my answer:

• I’m not bogged down by taking specific utilities (Blink, Decoy mainly), which allows me to fit into a more specialized role depending on what whacky build I’m trying. Now in terms of optimization, I DO use blink/decoy in my competitive condi shatter build… that being said, you still don’t have the amount of reliance on such utilities as you would if you were using other specs.
• I am typically able to take many more hits due to using a Rabid amulet. The lower health isn’t as big of an issue as people think. Taking more hits means you’re able to have more time to respond to emergency situations.
• I have a lower risk lower reward mentality that is more comfortable for my play style. I like knowing that I can make more mistakes if need be. Also, if I’m facing a glassier spec, I know that I can capitalize on their mistakes more brutally. Basically, I like battles where the longer they go, the more likely I am to win.
• More sources of damage in condi specs means more overall pressure, which I prefer. The flip side is that there’s no such thing as “burst” in a traditional sense. i.e. condi shatters all do significant dmg where as a power shatter’s burst comes with F1 and sometimes F3 (Halting Strike).

Btw, this is ALL from a pvp perspective.

Lastly, I have some GREAT footage of my playing condi shatter in ranked with a 5-man team. Now the hard part is just putting it together. It’s still on my list of gw2 things to do. BE PATIENT WITH CHO!

Send it to me if you like.

Nothing better then baiting cleanses just to dump a ton of confusion/torment on people and watch them implode. Can’t run? Can’t use your skills? Can’t cleanse? How about you just stand still and die. The Best imo!

I’ve always liked the more tactical mindset of DoT builds (in any RPG, really). Nothing beats watching some fool slow-melt in front of your face. Gonna love HoT-era condirupt, man. /drool

I only run condi mesmers in spvp when I’m bored. WvW I don’t play condi mesmer anymore but I used to just because it is a cushion for inexperienced players.

I play Condi in open world PvE and WvW because well, it’s a nice change of pace.

It also feels the most “complete”:

• I use all Shatter skills, constantly. I actually get to use our class bar!
• I am relatively free in choosing utilities.
• I got choices for my elite skill.
• I got choices for my healing skill.
• I can swap traits.

It’s just a very relaxed and varied way to play. And I feel like a Mesmer, punishing people and NPCs for moving or acting instead of being a glorified skirmisher.

I havent really seen this point brought up in the mesmer section before, like it is in the necro forums, but right now condition builds on every class are kind of displaced by the celestial cleanse spam meta. Even terrormancer is underpowered right now compared to passive procmancer, so I feel like condi mes is having an even harder time.

It is a really fun build, don’t get me wrong, I just hate feeling worthless against teams with 2 or more shoutbows, bunker guards, or cele eles.

I don’t run condi currently, but I’ve tried and I would like to. As others have said, the damage over time play style is one I’ve always preferred in mmos, and in GW1 I liked the hex them and watch them kill themselves play style of mesmer (loved it actually, best pvp experience ever imo).

I think right now condi is still a little weak, but with new core specializations I will be running more condi (probably hybrid). I think MtD+IP is going to be absolutely awesome. Plus the dueling traits and 50% more torment dmg from illusions, it just looks so good.

I may give it a go before the traits release, just to get in shape, but playing without IP in a shatter build is a bummer.

MSFone.3026:

I don’t run condi currently, but I’ve tried and I would like to. As others have said, the damage over time play style is one I’ve always preferred in mmos, and in GW1 I liked the hex them and watch them kill themselves play style of mesmer (loved it actually, best pvp experience ever imo).

I think right now condi is still a little weak, but with new core specializations I will be running more condi (probably hybrid). I think MtD+IP is going to be absolutely awesome. Plus the dueling traits and 50% more torment dmg from illusions, it just looks so good.

I may give it a go before the traits release, just to get in shape, but playing without IP in a shatter build is a bummer.

Yeah, knowing we’re going to get IP, it’s hard to play without it at the moment.

Also I would prefer to run sword/torch and either staff or scepter/shield, but currently sword/torch in mtd just doesn’t output enough damage – once we get the new confusing combatants as well as the free movement speed trait allowing use of better runes, it will be a lot more fun.

Yeah, confusing combatants will make sword much more awesome in a condi build. However we all know they are going to put some horrid icd on it

I run condition spec only when soloing, or playing with friends/guildies or doing some pve world event.

I like seeing the bleed, torment, confusion damage numbers.
I like trying to stack 25 bleed, 15 torment, 15 confusion before the mobs dies.
I also like it because it a change to the direct damage game style we all keep doing in all the content in this game.
It keep the game fresh and interesting time and time again.

Plus what others have said, help with staying alive.

I have 2 condi builds. One is confusion which I use for wvw because I can’t use Perplexity runes in pvp. It’s good for dueling but I can’t do much against a zerg. For pvp I use a bleed build that very, very few can deal with. It’s all about constant pressure and I find a sadistic joy in watching an opponent burn all their dodges, condi clears and then run away only to drop because they can’t outrun condis that are already on them. I’m even getting to the point where I can go 1v2 and down both opponents.

I run a few different condi builds from the standard PU to a bouncing death Illusionary Elasticity to a Power Block troll. I think they’re a bit more fun because the style of play is more varied than a shatter and the options for traiting are more flexible as power builds have only 2 points free to distribute. Cleanse-heavy builds can be a problem but it still does pretty well if you’re patient.

I looooove condi shatter

PvP:
I rarely run condi shatter in PvP though. Simply because I dislike all the rage going towards me from allies and foes alike. And I also feel that in PvP I can be more effective with a power based build.

WvW:
I run sometimes a condi shatter build in WvW roaming. And i personally believe it to be mostly OP (but mostly because ppl simply don’t really know how to approach the fight). It has, because of Staff, a huge mobility factor, strong dmg output and offers good survivability. That doesn’t mean I win all my fights… but most of them. Because I use sword instead of scepter I even sometimes are able to chase targets down, while they take the full load of torment. I am often able to 1v3 my opponents, which I have trouble with on other Mesmer builds.

Over all it is a ton of fun for roaming

Had some fun during the Stronghold beta with MtD Shatter. It does wonders on the Archer & Bomber NPCs of course, but I also found it very valuable in the bigger battles with Lords, over resources, etc.

Stronghold is just a nice combination between WvW roaming and the usual point-control fights, and this makes MtD shatter much more viable IMO. People are more spread out, moving around much more, and this favors a highly mobile MtD shatter build. Stealth in with T4, and just as T4 blows up you pop MI & PR and F2, then drop CS on’em and watch the white spam.

It seems that many people like to opt for slightly different builds for Stronghold, and that possibly this may also be contributing to slightly less Condie removal then usual PvP.

I also hope that Confusion retains some of it’s “on skill use” bite, because I was eating some Eles & Engies alive with big Confusion ticks. (And Torment of course.)

Well for the first time ever I’m actually enjoying using Pistol in a build.

Tried so many times in the past but never liked that weapon – though now I’m trying Sword/Torch + Scepter/Pistol MtD and it’s a lot of fun.

A shame to lose phase retreat, but apart from phase retreat staff is a very one dimensional weapon and it gets boring fast – so got to mix things up every now and then.

This is a question on my mind as well: Suppose the choice was between staff or x/torch, which should you take with MtD?

I don’t understand the OP’s question. I’ve been gone a year and just came back into the game. My armor has not changed, my build has not changed, and I’m still watching my enemies beat the hell out of themselves with confusion. I use Scepter & Sword / Staff and my AoE is fantastic, plus stacks of confusion spreading everywhere.

its preety much obvios we wont be able to run condi against the revenant not to say in tpvp match with shout warrior revenant and dd ele

Well the update makes conis more powerful. Just thinking you interrupt 3 targets with your conirup, you tigger 3 times halting strike get 15 stacks of might they get 6 stacks confusion on 5 ppl + if critical a additional. I see myself interrupting empowers on guards in wvw…
Also with AoE F3 for a selfshatter. interrupt confusion + shatter confusion. ( duelling, illusion, chrono)

and dont forget there will be a change for confusion again!

So atm power buid sure but after the Updte meybe a mix or condi.