Guild Wars 2

So I noticed that on every other subforum people are embracing there new abilities, figuring out new builds and counters. Then you have us. Asking for every new thing we received to be Nerfed. Not looking at the big picture.
People are pointing fingers at every one and everything.

But in this class community.
We have people advocating for everything we have be Nerfed into the ground before the dust for a new meta even settles.
why are we like this? I am genuinely curious.

Because mesmer are so used to being an awful class, we feel like something’s wrong when we aren’t.

Is there a name for this syndrome? Can I coin it the Mesmer Syndrome?

But tbh here’s my analogy. If anybody here can relate on the Batman vs Superman thing. Before, Mesmers were like Batman and almost every other class was Superman. We liked to be divisive, tricky and “intellectual” even if our power was far inferior we know we could do something. But all of a sudden we were turned into a Superman like almost every other class. For some reason people don’t like it and want to be turned back into Batman. In the perfect balanced GW2 world, everyone is a Batman. But now everybody is Superman, and Batman doesn’t like it.

Man this fear of nerfhammers is doing funny things to my head ):

It just seems like people who who play other professions and got killed by a mesmer in pvp come over here and advocate for nerfs.

Main Mesmer players are not actually voicing there happiness on the forum. There just playing & having fun.

But if you check carefully, lot of the complainers are players from other classe’s doing what they do best since the start. Bashing mainly the mesmer cuz it kill’s there unskill main. How surprising!

Superman is cheesy. Batman is pro.

This forum is not what is used to be: a really, really helpful place where people showed the awesome things you could achieve with the class. Right now this forum is just people telling other people how the class should be and how you are supposed to play it.

Because people who really like the class want to have it balanced and not being the next FotM class where all the bad players gather.

And honestly (in general, not directed at OP): If you were doing bad pre-patch and are doing great now, it’s not because the class was bad, but because you are a bad player and the class is a lot more noob-friendly and forgiving, now.

Some chose to play the Mesmer Solely based on being a Underdog class and felt like they were “skilled” killing players with a Class considered Underpowered. That community are now sad they’re class is viable and feel less “skilled” being strong enough to actually fight these classes..

Its a Sad way to choose ur proffession but it does exist in MMOs those Players will find something else they find Underpowered enough for their time to keep living their dream..

The proffession isnt “FoTM” Burn guardians and Engineers are more overpowered then the Mesmers currently, and these overpowered mechanics will be Nullified when hot comes out as classes currently are balanced for those HoT Changes.

And no, No one has physically said “couldnt play it Pre-patch” the class was at a disadvantage and Unless ur AMAZING at the class it wasnt going to work out, To accuse them of being Bad players Just cause they saw the disadvantages in their class doesnt make them bad it actually means they understand the class, What the class was MENT To be capable of and what it Actually is capable of.

The proffession hasnt got more “noob friendly” or “forgiving” its Simply got strong, it didnt make BEING strong any Easier lol it Just made it viable to Actually play properly, Im sorry but its Ridiculous to right such bull..

The Excess of skill required to play the mesmer Was caused by the fact it wasnt on par and u had to try so much harder to make urself on par with the rest of the players and proffessions, that Excess of Skill Curve was never ment to be there in a Balanced world, Im sorry but i am not a Lover of Skill curves created by the fact a class Underperforms in its role.

Kabikaz.8637:

Because mesmer are so used to being an awful class, we feel like something’s wrong when we aren’t.

landhere.8576:

It just seems like people who who play other professions and got killed by a mesmer in pvp come over here and advocate for nerfs.

These two posts. Mostly theives for the second one.

O.K. This is getting silly.

There is a lot of over dramatics and generalizing all over the place.

Why do people like to blame the entire forum for the actions of a few? And if you really look at those threads, they’re only pointing at a few specific traits that need tweaking.

All these diagnosis and claiming Mesmers want themselves nerfed makes the situation seem way worse than it really is. Its just a few non-Mesmers complaining and some Mesmer mains with obvious concerns over some extremely powerful specs that they don’t want Anet to overnerf like Chaotic Dampening and Maimed.

… And can we please stop with the underdog thing? People are blowing that way out of proportion.

Guys, if you’re using mesmer for anything else beside portal, then you’re doing it wrong. Mesmers are forever the portal slaves and we should embrace that glorious fate, or go play some other class.

The correct place for a mesmer is not in any party but at the end of JP’s, porting people for tips. Right now there is a great demand for this service in LA.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

O.K. This is getting silly.

There is a lot of over dramatics and generalizing all over the place.

Why do people like to blame the entire forum for the actions of a few? And if you really look at those threads, they’re only pointing at a few specific traits that need tweaking.

All these diagnosis and claiming Mesmers want themselves nerfed makes the situation seem way worse than it really is. Its just a few non-Mesmers complaining and some Mesmer mains with obvious concerns over some extremely powerful specs that they don’t want Anet to overnerf like Chaotic Dampening and Maimed.

… And can we please stop with the underdog thing? People are blowing that way out of proportion.

Sorry, looking in this subforum alone the repeated mantra of
Shatter is too strong
when Everyone is too strong.

OR having someone tell me mesmer is too strong when it’s on par.

OR looking in the pvp forum and seeing " I main a mesmer the damage/stun/stealth/clones/phantasms/ conditions/traits are too strong"

And I see little to no one saying

“Look, this seems strong because you are doing A-B-C and they have been doing D-F-E, because they have been playing M-spec since before you knew it was a thing and you ignored M-spec because they tickled you. Try building B-spec and learning what they are doing before you try a glass M-spec.”

Instead a I see a lot of people claiming to be mesmer mains and agreeing with every other fallacy spewed by someone that is kitten they didnt dodge the running clones or stood still when they saw 2 dodgeroll clones pop up.

Sorry, if that seems dramatic, but I dont see thieves in there forum telling people they need to nerf SA or thier burst damage

I don’t see engineer’s in there forum saying they need to nerf their burning duration or grenades

I don’t see Necro’s in their subforum saying they apply too many condi’s or their passive trait is too strong.

I don’t see Ele’s in their forum saying they need to nerf the blinding they do on burning.

I don’t see warriors asking for their stun combo or BP to be nerfed.

Here it’s a different story.
THAT is what I’m talking about.
Even when we do draw attention to something, we are over-nerfed anyway.
Has been happening since the game was released.
We just have a few people that speed up the process.

But I feel that you’re generalizing things and making it seem like it’s more than what it is.

Right now shatter bursts are instant. 0-100 out-of-stealth kills. THAT is the main complaint. I’ve seen and done it myself, and I can agree that in it’s current state it IS too strong.

There is no “well maybe you can do this differently” in that situation. You don’t see the Mesmer, anndd you’re dead. Right now that, (and the fact that Blinding Shatters is completely unmitigated).

All I’m saying is that right now we’re in a great place and no one wants to see that changed, but some people just don’t want to be overpowered.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

But I feel that you’re generalizing things and making it seem like it’s more than what it is.

Sorry if I came off that way, forgive me though if I fear we will be nerfed prematurely and have little to no room in the new meta. We have always been overshadowed by other classes to the point where portal is our only real niche, and if someone gets a specialization with glamours and a portal that niche for us will then be gone.
I would much rather see the meta evolve with us still in it, than for us to be overshadowed by other classes for another year or three.

Right now shatter bursts are instant. 0-100 out-of-stealth kills. THAT is the main complaint. I’ve seen and done it myself, and I can agree that in it’s current state it IS too strong.

Based on the fact that everyone now is glass?

Yes you can now 0-100 someone.
But so can everyone else.
this is one of the main things I and others have been telling people.

EVERYONE is glass, and EVERYONE is doing insane damage.
not just mesmers

I think Anet needs to shave power off of every amulet and reduce power from gear.
We have a power creep from multiple sources. But it effects everyone.

Solori.6025:

Chaos Archangel.5071:

But I feel that you’re generalizing things and making it seem like it’s more than what it is.

Sorry if I came off that way, forgive me though if I fear we will be nerfed prematurely and have little to no room in the new meta. We have always been overshadowed by other classes to the point where portal is our only real niche, and if someone gets a specialization with glamours and a portal that niche for us will then be gone.
I would much rather see the meta evolve with us still in it, than for us to be overshadowed by other classes for another year or three.

Right now shatter bursts are instant. 0-100 out-of-stealth kills. THAT is the main complaint. I’ve seen and done it myself, and I can agree that in it’s current state it IS too strong.

Based on the fact that everyone now is glass?

Yes you can now 0-100 someone.
But so can everyone else.
this is one of the main things I and others have been telling people.

EVERYONE is glass, and EVERYONE is doing insane damage.
not just mesmers

I think Anet needs to shave power off of every amulet and reduce power from gear.
We have a power creep from multiple sources. But it effects everyone.

I dont agree that Anet needs to shave off power. Cuz that will revert back to tickling the more sustain classes. No.. like i read on the other thread. If you gonna play squishy & no stun breakers & roaming alone. Your running high risk to get gank in a 1 shot. What player needs to do is focus less on the high power squishy build & more on descent damage but more sustain builds. that way it comes to the skill level of the player that determines who wins.

Solori.6025:

Chaos Archangel.5071:

But I feel that you’re generalizing things and making it seem like it’s more than what it is.

Sorry if I came off that way, forgive me though if I fear we will be nerfed prematurely and have little to no room in the new meta. We have always been overshadowed by other classes to the point where portal is our only real niche, and if someone gets a specialization with glamours and a portal that niche for us will then be gone.
I would much rather see the meta evolve with us still in it, than for us to be overshadowed by other classes for another year or three.

Right now shatter bursts are instant. 0-100 out-of-stealth kills. THAT is the main complaint. I’ve seen and done it myself, and I can agree that in it’s current state it IS too strong.

Based on the fact that everyone now is glass?

Yes you can now 0-100 someone.
But so can everyone else.
this is one of the main things I and others have been telling people.

EVERYONE is glass, and EVERYONE is doing insane damage.
not just mesmers

I think Anet needs to shave power off of every amulet and reduce power from gear.
We have a power creep from multiple sources. But it effects everyone.

I see your point, and we should definitely wait for the meta to settle. But people shouldn’t blame others for seeing some obviously overly strong faults in their class just because the other class forums are afraid or unwilling to admit the same.

One thing is for certain, as a community we shouldn’t be turning on eachother instead of respecting different opinions. There’s way too much “Your opinion is WRONG and you should be ashamed! You disgust me!” going on right now.

“The downfall of man will be himself”

All these self righteous nerfs will only lead to unnecessary ones.

And when mesmer’s dont like how the devs handled it, There you will hear the cries of disgust and anarchy of a thousand illusionists.

Wait and See.

Totally agree with OP because of …

Kabikaz.8637:

Because mesmer are so used to being an awful class, we feel like something’s wrong when we aren’t.

… this!

But to be fair I have to agree with Chaos – not only mesmer players are posting here. Don’t generalize too much

My main in GW1 was a mesmer. My main in GW2 is a necro, but my 2nd in line is a mesmer.

This is all rambling…but the original post was a bit rambling so I think I am ok.

(1) I miss hexes. Why does every negative effect have to be a condition. Don’t we feel this overly simplifies things?

(2) Why do mesmers have to have so many pets? Can’t we just be super-clever and tricksy without the pets? Do you need to have a pet to be tricky?

Well, that’s it! Thanks for listening.

To answer the OP: I think mesmers tend (even lame GW2 mesmers who aren’t as smart as GW1 mesmers) to be more intellectual than the average player. So balance issues are always on their mind, and they can tell when something is not in balance.

A Volcano.2510:

(2) Why do mesmers have to have so many pets? Can’t we just be super-clever and tricksy without the pets? Do you need to have a pet to be tricky?

They’re not pets. They’re little packets of damage/CC/invuln that happen to also confuse scrubs every once in a while.

Heed my words, the nerfs will be coming, necessary and unnecessary a like.

This event would trigger a cataclysmic event called…

“The Whinefest”

Solori.6025:

Chaos Archangel.5071:

O.K. This is getting silly.

There is a lot of over dramatics and generalizing all over the place.

Why do people like to blame the entire forum for the actions of a few? And if you really look at those threads, they’re only pointing at a few specific traits that need tweaking.

All these diagnosis and claiming Mesmers want themselves nerfed makes the situation seem way worse than it really is. Its just a few non-Mesmers complaining and some Mesmer mains with obvious concerns over some extremely powerful specs that they don’t want Anet to overnerf like Chaotic Dampening and Maimed.

… And can we please stop with the underdog thing? People are blowing that way out of proportion.

Sorry, looking in this subforum alone the repeated mantra of
Shatter is too strong
when Everyone is too strong.

OR having someone tell me mesmer is too strong when it’s on par.

OR looking in the pvp forum and seeing " I main a mesmer the damage/stun/stealth/clones/phantasms/ conditions/traits are too strong"

And I see little to no one saying

“Look, this seems strong because you are doing A-B-C and they have been doing D-F-E, because they have been playing M-spec since before you knew it was a thing and you ignored M-spec because they tickled you. Try building B-spec and learning what they are doing before you try a glass M-spec.”

Instead a I see a lot of people claiming to be mesmer mains and agreeing with every other fallacy spewed by someone that is kitten they didnt dodge the running clones or stood still when they saw 2 dodgeroll clones pop up.

Sorry, if that seems dramatic, but I dont see thieves in there forum telling people they need to nerf SA or thier burst damage

I don’t see engineer’s in there forum saying they need to nerf their burning duration or grenades

I don’t see Necro’s in their subforum saying they apply too many condi’s or their passive trait is too strong.

I don’t see Ele’s in their forum saying they need to nerf the blinding they do on burning.

I don’t see warriors asking for their stun combo or BP to be nerfed.

Here it’s a different story.
THAT is what I’m talking about.
Even when we do draw attention to something, we are over-nerfed anyway.
Has been happening since the game was released.
We just have a few people that speed up the process.

The actual problem is that the average Mesmer main, and the Mesmer forum, consists of articulate, coherent, intelligent people who tend to be active within their class community compared to other classes. Other classes don’t have the same level or degree of activity in their forums because, sad as it is, harsh as it may sound, they’re made up largely of uncouth barbarians who’re lucky to be able to string two sentences together :)

Warrior forum for example: “Ug, warrior smash gud. YAH!”

Ross Biddle.2367:

The actual problem is that the average Mesmer main, and the Mesmer forum, consists of articulate, coherent, intelligent people who tend to be active within their class community compared to other classes. Other classes don’t have the same level or degree of activity in their forums because, sad as it is, harsh as it may sound, they’re made up largely of uncouth barbarians who’re lucky to be able to string two sentences together

Warrior forum for example: “Ug, warrior smash gud. YAH!”

Agree. The mesmer forum tends to have some relatively constructive and considerate participants who above all want a balanced game in which mesmer is (a) an active part, and (b) fun to play. You can’t have an honest conversation about either without looking at strengths and weaknesses. And you can’t be honest about things without recognizing and discussing if/when something is underpowered and/or overpowered

Solori.6025:

So I noticed that on every other subforum people are embracing there new abilities, figuring out new builds and counters. Then you have us. Asking for every new thing we received to be Nerfed. Not looking at the big picture.
People are pointing fingers at every one and everything.

But in this class community.
We have people advocating for everything we have be Nerfed into the ground before the dust for a new meta even settles.
why are we like this? I am genuinely curious.

You are utterly wrong.

I have not seen a single Mesmer ask for any nerfs outside of PU, the 5% reduction recharge on Staff and Confounding Suggestions. If you’d like to debate why these things need to be nerfed/balanced, I’m ready to have that debate any day.

Like I’ve said in other threads, there’s nothing “self-defeating” about adding your opinion on BALANCE. It doesn’t matter what class you play. Players like myself who ask for balanced skills/traits across all professions should not be criticized. People who do such are part of the problem, not the solution to a balanced game.

MailMail.6534:

Solori.6025:

So I noticed that on every other subforum people are embracing there new abilities, figuring out new builds and counters. Then you have us. Asking for every new thing we received to be Nerfed. Not looking at the big picture.
People are pointing fingers at every one and everything.

But in this class community.
We have people advocating for everything we have be Nerfed into the ground before the dust for a new meta even settles.
why are we like this? I am genuinely curious.

You are utterly wrong.

I have not seen a single Mesmer ask for any nerfs outside of PU, the 5% reduction recharge on Staff and Confounding Suggestions. If you’d like to debate why these things need to be nerfed/balanced, I’m ready to have that debate any day.

Like I’ve said in other threads, there’s nothing “self-defeating” about adding your opinion on BALANCE. It doesn’t matter what class you play. Players like myself who ask for balanced skills/traits across all professions should not be criticized. People who do such are part of the problem, not the solution to a balanced game.

Unfortunately while what you say is true, we all know that this “righteous asking” for nerfs will lead to unecessary ones.

And if that happens, what can we do? Lemme guess, nothing right?

If you ask me, we should’ve waited for the meta to settle down instead of being “honorable skilled mesmers” asking for nerfs that will make us a “skilled class”

We have been here for 3 years, will we not ever learn if we get some of our toys changed again?

Sticker, there is nothing “righteous” or “honorable” about asking for balance among all professions. No one is asking for nerfs that “will make us a skilled class”.

What posts are you guys reading? I’m not seeing exactly what you guys are. Quotes would be nice, because there’s a disconnect between me and these sentiments that Mesmers are “self-defeating” in any shame or form.

MailMail.6534:

Sticker, there is nothing “righteous” or “honorable” about asking for balance among all professions. No one is asking for nerfs that “will make us a skilled class”.

What posts are you guys reading? I’m not seeing exactly what you guys are. Quotes would be nice, because there’s a disconnect between me and these sentiments that Mesmers are “self-defeating” in any shame or form.

The self defeating posts is that we get Blinding Dissipation then we say it is OP, we get Confounding Suggestions rework then we say its OP, do other classes award us for doing that? They are just laughing at us.

StickerHappy.8052:

MailMail.6534:

Sticker, there is nothing “righteous” or “honorable” about asking for balance among all professions. No one is asking for nerfs that “will make us a skilled class”.

What posts are you guys reading? I’m not seeing exactly what you guys are. Quotes would be nice, because there’s a disconnect between me and these sentiments that Mesmers are “self-defeating” in any shame or form.

The self defeating posts is that we get Blinding Dissipation then we say it is OP, we get Confounding Suggestions rework then we say its OP, do other classes award us for doing that? They are just laughing at us.

I don’t believe I’ve seen a single Mesmer say BD is OP. It’s the trait that has MOST improved our survivability imho. It’s also turned thief from our hard counter to simply a counter which is what it should be.

Confounding Suggestions is definitely OP. Do you disagree that having an automatic unavoidable(Mantra of Distraction + a myriad of other dazes) stun with no counter-play every 5s is balanced? You keep saying the word “self-defeating”, but I don’t believe asking for balanced professions is “self-defeating”.

MailMail.6534:

StickerHappy.8052:

MailMail.6534:

Sticker, there is nothing “righteous” or “honorable” about asking for balance among all professions. No one is asking for nerfs that “will make us a skilled class”.

What posts are you guys reading? I’m not seeing exactly what you guys are. Quotes would be nice, because there’s a disconnect between me and these sentiments that Mesmers are “self-defeating” in any shame or form.

The self defeating posts is that we get Blinding Dissipation then we say it is OP, we get Confounding Suggestions rework then we say its OP, do other classes award us for doing that? They are just laughing at us.

I don’t believe I’ve seen a single Mesmer say BD is OP. It’s the trait that has MOST improved our survivability imho. It’s also turned thief from our hard counter to simply a counter which is what it should be.

Confounding Suggestions is definitely OP. Do you disagree that having an automatic unavoidable(Mantra of Distraction + a myriad of other dazes) stun with no counter-play every 5s is balanced? You keep saying the word “self-defeating”, but I don’t believe asking for balanced professions is “self-defeating”.

It is, dude do you think other classes think we are “honorable” asking for our stuff to be balanced, hell no. This is even works to their advantage.

StickerHappy.8052:

MailMail.6534:

StickerHappy.8052:

MailMail.6534:

Sticker, there is nothing “righteous” or “honorable” about asking for balance among all professions. No one is asking for nerfs that “will make us a skilled class”.

What posts are you guys reading? I’m not seeing exactly what you guys are. Quotes would be nice, because there’s a disconnect between me and these sentiments that Mesmers are “self-defeating” in any shame or form.

The self defeating posts is that we get Blinding Dissipation then we say it is OP, we get Confounding Suggestions rework then we say its OP, do other classes award us for doing that? They are just laughing at us.

I don’t believe I’ve seen a single Mesmer say BD is OP. It’s the trait that has MOST improved our survivability imho. It’s also turned thief from our hard counter to simply a counter which is what it should be.

Confounding Suggestions is definitely OP. Do you disagree that having an automatic unavoidable(Mantra of Distraction + a myriad of other dazes) stun with no counter-play every 5s is balanced? You keep saying the word “self-defeating”, but I don’t believe asking for balanced professions is “self-defeating”.

It is, dude do you think other classes think we are “honorable” asking for our stuff to be balanced, hell no. This is even works to their advantage.

I don’t care what other classes think or what works to their advantage. I want a balanced game, and if that isn’t every player’s goal, they’re hurting the system.

MailMail.6534:

StickerHappy.8052:

MailMail.6534:

StickerHappy.8052:

MailMail.6534:

Sticker, there is nothing “righteous” or “honorable” about asking for balance among all professions. No one is asking for nerfs that “will make us a skilled class”.

What posts are you guys reading? I’m not seeing exactly what you guys are. Quotes would be nice, because there’s a disconnect between me and these sentiments that Mesmers are “self-defeating” in any shame or form.

The self defeating posts is that we get Blinding Dissipation then we say it is OP, we get Confounding Suggestions rework then we say its OP, do other classes award us for doing that? They are just laughing at us.

I don’t believe I’ve seen a single Mesmer say BD is OP. It’s the trait that has MOST improved our survivability imho. It’s also turned thief from our hard counter to simply a counter which is what it should be.

Confounding Suggestions is definitely OP. Do you disagree that having an automatic unavoidable(Mantra of Distraction + a myriad of other dazes) stun with no counter-play every 5s is balanced? You keep saying the word “self-defeating”, but I don’t believe asking for balanced professions is “self-defeating”.

It is, dude do you think other classes think we are “honorable” asking for our stuff to be balanced, hell no. This is even works to their advantage.

I don’t care what other classes think or what works to their advantage. I want a balanced game, and if that isn’t every player’s goal, they’re hurting the system.

It is NOT!
Most of players just want simple ‘I win’ button. They come into the game to relax not to compete.
Even the company may not want ultimate balance. They want a dynamic meta which keeps players engaged as long as possible.

Kabikaz.8637:

Because mesmer are so used to being an awful class, we feel like something’s wrong when we aren’t.

Bingo!

+1

Maybe Mesmers have a bigger group of players capable of looking at things objectively and rationally?

MailMail.6534:

Confounding Suggestions is definitely OP. Do you disagree that having an automatic unavoidable(Mantra of Distraction + a myriad of other dazes) stun with no counter-play every 5s is balanced? You keep saying the word “self-defeating”, but I don’t believe asking for balanced professions is “self-defeating”.

But we could always do this before, why is it suddenly OPd? It’s not like a 50% chance to stun is a poor chance, especially when the Daze is 100%. It had no CD, so theoretically you could have done that combo much more often before the patch.

The difference now is that PU lasts longer, making it easier to pull this off with your opponent not being able to see it coming. It was always possible, just not quite as reliable.

The real problem here is not CS! It’s the very much increased burst damage you can deliver in that 1.25s stun! Heck with SoD you could always have stunned someone from Stealth for nearly 4 whole seconds! However, the fact is that before the patch, it was difficult to 100 – 0 someone fast enough to make this tactic work.

The problem with asking for nerfs to yourself, before we’re even had the time to explore counters, is that we end up focusing on the wrong issue! The damage nerf is coming, not to us alone, it’ll likely be a broad-spectrum nerf, or maybe a broad-spectrum boost to people’s HPs/Toughness. Once that is there, and CS is nerfed because you asked for it yourself, then you’re right back in the mud puddle that Mesmers were in for years.

It was never that “one nerf” that made Mesmers so uncompetitive. It was a series of over-nerfs, followed by a series of completely indirect nerfs that together watered the profession down.

I think people who believe that after only 5 days they know exactly what needs to be nerfed, and what doesn’t, for not only Mesmers but also other classes and the game as a whole, are just self-righteous loudmouths. You will never balance this game by following the vocal crowd.

Of course, deluding yourself in thinking that anyone is actually interested in achieving balance, including Anet, is probably the first mistake people like me make. ;-)

Mesmer OP or Strong let’s clarify

Mesmer was a weak class, bound Phantasm or Condi in PvE and Shatter in PvP (if you were running something, you considered as kitten)
Now after the patch. Not even 1 weak had passed and yet you were already calling them OP.

Understand that Strong is not OP.

Mesmer is now a strong class, they were used to be targeted at first in group fight.
But now people trying this are burning their fingers, and call them OP.
Using 4-5 skill to burst someone is not OP, it is strong.

OP is Barrage grenade now, how it is. OP was turret before change.
May be you should take time to understand what changed and what you can do against it, before calling them OP.
Running berserk or Marrauder is a risk. getting burst is risk. But you can choose not use those, and you won’t get burst so quickly.
it is easier to win now, but let’s thing settling down before calling them OP.
There are stronger class.

Solori.6025:

But in this class community.
We have people advocating for everything we have be Nerfed into the ground before the dust for a new meta even settles.
why are we like this? I am genuinely curious.

Are you so scared of a nerf that you cannot fathom that people might consider their own abilities to be too strong?

What is bad about that? Is this some kind of competition, “Quick, we got to cry about the other classes being OP while continuously deflecting their whining with justifications about how balanced things are!”?

Because sorry, last I knew I wanted a balanced game. And I don’t care one bit how the other classes work outside of sometimes feeling too strong / too weak overall. I play Mesmer. I care about Mesmer balance. Which exists in a vacuum, not only in comparison to other classes (this isn’t sPvP Wars 2, the game has non-player-based targets to provide judgement on overall power or lack of power, be it gates or be it PvE enemies).

Plenty things are too strong. Usually across all classes. Some things we only have are too strong. Some things other classes have are too strong. Only I don’t play those, so I won’t comment much on them, sorry. I can only really judge Mesmer state-of-balance.

(edit)
I intentionally left out the counterpart, ofc I also have plenty things which I consider too weak for both my class and others. And again, I only comment on Mesmer-specific stuff because that’s the only class I know enough about.

Not playing mesmer at the moment, but following all changes very closely. While some things may be a tad overtuned, I think the overall idea of how mesmer is playing now is good, and a ‘playstyle nerf’ is not warranted.

Like PU nerf keeps coming back. Can people please think further then their nose please? Sure prestige and decoy are very powerfull with new pu, but look at Veil and mass invisibility. Never been in pvp meta. Barely good enough for wvw meta. And guess what now they are! And they are not overpowered in anyway. Hell Veil itself cannot be run tru twice anymore because of the PU boost. And mass invisibility actually has enough time now, to unleash a surprise attack, or escape. 5-6 secs in past is nothing to escape a big zerg in open field.

With this in mind, A way better argument (imo) would be: Prestige and decoy get +1 second stealth from PU, the other two keep their cloacking time being doubled advantage.

With this little example finished: I gotta say I agree with op. If it the few people shouting PU nerf all over the board MI and Veil would be 90% not usefull state again.

Ignorance Ignorance Ignorance.

Many Engi wants their OP bugged grenade barrage gone.
Many Ele wants their insane burning stack gone.
Many Guardians want their insane burning stack gone.
For thief idk, maybe not.

This video pretty much sums up what’s wrong with Mesmer and Guardian.

https://youtu.be/46hPricq-RQ

You can keep making excuses. You can keep acting blind. You can keep giving silly arguments. You can keep pretending that the spec is weak. You can keep bringing up unrelated stuffs to justify this.

You can keep defending this BS, but you’d quickly see a dying GW2 pvp community. (Not like it’s not dying already.)

Windwalker.7421:

But we could always do this before, why is it suddenly OPd? It’s not like a 50% chance to stun is a poor chance, especially when the Daze is 100%. It had no CD, so theoretically you could have done that combo much more often before the patch.

It’s suddenly OP, because 50% is significantly different from 100%. Your theoretical example is a moot point considering you could not have taken CS, PU, IP and DE simultaneously.

The difference now is that PU lasts longer, making it easier to pull this off with your opponent not being able to see it coming. It was always possible, just not quite as reliable.

Again, see the above about your theoretical example. The difference now is that you can take multiple gms that previously you wouldn’t have been able to. Also, our old gm was buffed and made into an adept…

The problem with asking for nerfs to yourself, before we’re even had the time to explore counters, is that we end up focusing on the wrong issue!

There’s nothing to explore. The only “counter” to MoD is either dodge, aegis or stability. Oh wait, MoD is instant cast… Perma dodge/aegis/stability is not in the game.

The damage nerf is coming, not to us alone, it’ll likely be a broad-spectrum nerf, or maybe a broad-spectrum boost to people’s HPs/Toughness. Once that is there, and CS is nerfed because you asked for it yourself, then you’re right back in the mud puddle that Mesmers were in for years.

CS needs to be balanced. What Mesmers are suggesting is not for a trait to be nerfed to the ground. See this thread here if you’re confused about what your fellow Mesmers want done to CS: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Confounding-Suggestions-Suggestion/first#post5209372

It was never that “one nerf” that made Mesmers so uncompetitive. It was a series of over-nerfs, followed by a series of completely indirect nerfs that together watered the profession down.

I think people who believe that after only 5 days they know exactly what needs to be nerfed, and what doesn’t, for not only Mesmers but also other classes and the game as a whole, are just self-righteous loudmouths. You will never balance this game by following the vocal crowd.

I agree with the first paragraph. No one is advocating for over-nerfs. Where are you seeing these posts from Mesmers. Again, please direct me to them. Otherwise, I consider it hyperbole & conjecture.

Of course, deluding yourself in thinking that anyone is actually interested in achieving balance, including Anet, is probably the first mistake people like me make. ;-)

You have a right to be distrusting of Anet based on their biased treatment against Mesmer for 3 years. In terms of whether I’m interested or not in balance… Check my post history.

edited to add: Since some people seem to confuse my helpful suggestions with somehow being “self-defeating”, for the record, I don’t think Mesmer is an OP class. With very little information and time on our side, I think the strongest classes are Mesmer, Ele, Guard and Engi. I don’t think any class is necessarily weak outside of perhaps Ranger. I’m actually loving what each class has brought to my matches thus far. That’s my official opinion.

Seyiwaji.4082:

Mesmer OP or Strong let’s clarify

Mesmer was a weak class, bound Phantasm or Condi in PvE and Shatter in PvP (if you were running something, you considered as kitten)
Now after the patch. Not even 1 weak had passed and yet you were already calling them OP.

Understand that Strong is not OP.

Mesmer is now a strong class, they were used to be targeted at first in group fight.
But now people trying this are burning their fingers, and call them OP.
Using 4-5 skill to burst someone is not OP, it is strong.

OP is Barrage grenade now, how it is. OP was turret before change.
May be you should take time to understand what changed and what you can do against it, before calling them OP.
Running berserk or Marrauder is a risk. getting burst is risk. But you can choose not use those, and you won’t get burst so quickly.
it is easier to win now, but let’s thing settling down before calling them OP.
There are stronger class.

That pretty much sums it up. Nobody says you have to be running pure glass, if you get nuked all the time, tweak your build or pick your fights more carefully. Granted, not many people pick their fights, mostly it’s “raaawr i’m going in!”… then they get blasted to pieces or taken down by a ton of conditions (when they should have known they lack enough sustain).

Some mesmers feel OP now and people jump on the bandwagon. But remember how everybody and their dog was playing ranger when the power longbow build was suddenly “viable”?

You guys see how you can nuke other glass specs down now, and ask anet to nerf us, then we’ll get nerfed to oblivion and if others will still hit hard, perhaps a more tanky meta will surface and then we won’t be able to even put a dent into certain builds.

Just wait with your “benevolent balancing feedback” until things settle a bit. Your job is not to find balance or to tell the devs what is strong in your class. They do not read your fine-print about “tone this down” or such. They WILL nerf you hard and then you can be happy to keep on complaining for another 3 years.

Just wait with your “benevolent balancing feedback” until things settle a bit. Your job is not to find balance or to tell the devs what is strong in your class. They do not read your fine-print about “tone this down” or such. They WILL nerf you hard and then you can be happy to keep on complaining for another 3 years.

You can’t have it both ways. They are aware of our concerns. The problem is that sometimes they listen; most of the time, they don’t!! LOL

The reason we have several of the traits we do now is literally because they took ideas out of the forums. See Mistrust for example. They changed the entire Inspiration tree because of the feedback given to them by Mesmers post the revamp reveal. I’d also like to think we warded off the Maim nerf for 6 hours.

Toxsa.2701:

You can keep defending this BS, but you’d quickly see a dying GW2 pvp community. (Not like it’s not dying already.)

Good.
The sooner sPvP – and it’s playerbase, luckily minor as it is – is out of the game, the sooner the devs can free up resources to work on improving the actually played parts of the game.

Toxsa.2701:

Ignorance Ignorance Ignorance.

Many Engi wants their OP bugged grenade barrage gone.
Many Ele wants their insane burning stack gone.
Many Guardians want their insane burning stack gone.
For thief idk, maybe not.

This video pretty much sums up what’s wrong with Mesmer and Guardian.

https://youtu.be/46hPricq-RQ

You can keep making excuses. You can keep acting blind. You can keep giving silly arguments. You can keep pretending that the spec is weak. You can keep bringing up unrelated stuffs to justify this.

You can keep defending this BS, but you’d quickly see a dying GW2 pvp community. (Not like it’s not dying already.)

The irony of you linking that particular burst is that the Blurred Frenzy burst, the only one that dropped the guard, is also the one with more than enough time to react within and take countermeasures (stun break, stabos proc, dodge roll).

Anyway, don’t let me rain (to heavily) on your hyperbole train!

The problem I see is things that are over performing don’t just get tweaked. They don’t get a sensible change, they get needed to the point no-one would use it.

Take confounding suggestions. Currently I feel it’s a little on the strong side, a few or many might agree. If Anet decides it is too strong it will get a 10-20s ICD or something. That will for the most part destroy it.

A better way to nerf it would be switch it with another trait in another line so power players have to choose but to keep its synergy with interrupts. Switching it with a trait in chaos means you could keep the synergy for interrupt builds but increase the opportunity cost for power shatters.

That is only an example, please don’t run away with it.

@apharma I think a 10s CD based on individual targets similarly to Ineptitude would be the perfect balance for CS. No need to move it to another trait line as it fits perfectly with Domination.

Toxsa.2701:

Ignorance Ignorance Ignorance.

Many Engi wants their OP bugged grenade barrage gone.
Many Ele wants their insane burning stack gone.
Many Guardians want their insane burning stack gone.
For thief idk, maybe not.

This video pretty much sums up what’s wrong with Mesmer and Guardian.

https://youtu.be/46hPricq-RQ

You can keep making excuses. You can keep acting blind. You can keep giving silly arguments. You can keep pretending that the spec is weak. You can keep bringing up unrelated stuffs to justify this.

You can keep defending this BS, but you’d quickly see a dying GW2 pvp community. (Not like it’s not dying already.)

My favourite quote of that video: “Oh I messed up” followed by “Oh I messed up” and the repeated “I messed up” on an ideal long channel guard sitting there doing nothing but the most obvious channel in the game.

I also like how he used all his utilities, made sure he had all his damage procs going, used scholar runes everything to get absolute make burst.

Go watch JebroUnity channel on twitch, got a game or two with helseth and frostball, check their burst on competent players and use something like that as a comparison.

At the end of the day the only thing in that whole combo that is different from pre patch is the mantra of distraction for confounding suggestions and power block. Could it be what’s actually “broken” is the stat inflation and that marauder has about 10% more crit chance, more ferocity and power than the old zerker?

@mailmail yeah there’s a lot of things that if the ICD was per target they would work better and be either stronger and balanced or less powerful and balanced. I hope those kinds of things get implemented.

Carighan.6758:

Solori.6025:

But in this class community.
We have people advocating for everything we have be Nerfed into the ground before the dust for a new meta even settles.
why are we like this? I am genuinely curious.

Are you so scared of a nerf that you cannot fathom that people might consider their own abilities to be too strong?

What is bad about that? Is this some kind of competition, “Quick, we got to cry about the other classes being OP while continuously deflecting their whining with justifications about how balanced things are!”?

Because sorry, last I knew I wanted a balanced game. And I don’t care one bit how the other classes work outside of sometimes feeling too strong / too weak overall. I play Mesmer. I care about Mesmer balance. Which exists in a vacuum, not only in comparison to other classes (this isn’t sPvP Wars 2, the game has non-player-based targets to provide judgement on overall power or lack of power, be it gates or be it PvE enemies).

Plenty things are too strong. Usually across all classes. Some things we only have are too strong. Some things other classes have are too strong. Only I don’t play those, so I won’t comment much on them, sorry. I can only really judge Mesmer state-of-balance.

(edit)
I intentionally left out the counterpart, ofc I also have plenty things which I consider too weak for both my class and others. And again, I only comment on Mesmer-specific stuff because that’s the only class I know enough about.

I have replied to this kind of question multiple times, you are right there is no problem asking for a tweak to become balanced

BUT

If we get unnecessary or become over nerfed, (which anet has a history of doing) what would you do? Point fingers?

And the forums are vocal minority of the mesmer community, Not all of us wants to get “nerfed righteously” So if we do get nerfed unnecessarily would you blame those people if they get mad?

StickerHappy.8052:

If we get unnecessary or become over nerfed, (which anet has a history of doing) what would you do? Point fingers?

And the forums are vocal minority of the mesmer community, Not all of us wants to get “nerfed righteously” So if we do get nerfed unnecessarily would you blame those people if they get mad?

As you say, we’re a minority, if very vocal. Smart devs mostly ignore the forums. They use them as pointers, that is, ideally the community managers only convey “what”, not “how” or “why”.

So they might send upwards, in their weekly summary:
“Mesmer forums: something about PU, CS, Confusing Combatants and lots of comments about Maim the Disillusioned.”

They would not say the actual nature of the comments or suggestions. The devs are only supposed to use this as a basis of looking at the traits on their own, and then after their own investigation, if they want to, come to the forums to read about suggestions what to do with it. Or not, if they decided it’s fine.

So why would I point fingers. If anything, players talking about something made the devs do a change they would do anyhow a bit sooner. That’s all. Since this goes both ways, it’s a balanced system.

Carighan.6758:

StickerHappy.8052:

If we get unnecessary or become over nerfed, (which anet has a history of doing) what would you do? Point fingers?

And the forums are vocal minority of the mesmer community, Not all of us wants to get “nerfed righteously” So if we do get nerfed unnecessarily would you blame those people if they get mad?

As you say, we’re a minority, if very vocal. Smart devs mostly ignore the forums. They use them as pointers, that is, ideally the community managers only convey “what”, not “how” or “why”.

So they might send upwards, in their weekly summary:
“Mesmer forums: something about PU, CS, Confusing Combatants and lots of comments about Maim the Disillusioned.”

They would not say the actual nature of the comments or suggestions. The devs are only supposed to use this as a basis of looking at the traits on their own, and then after their own investigation, if they want to, come to the forums to read about suggestions what to do with it. Or not, if they decided it’s fine.

So why would I point fingers. If anything, players talking about something made the devs do a change they would do anyhow a bit sooner. That’s all. Since this goes both ways, it’s a balanced system.

But we see the opposite here.

How did the turret engies get nerfed? A lot of forum posts complaining.
Same as the state mesmer now, a lot of the forum posts complaining (what’s worse is, fellow mesmer players are too wanting a nerf)