Guild Wars 2

Seyiwaji.4082:

Mesmer OP or Strong let’s clarify

Mesmer was a weak class, bound Phantasm or Condi in PvE and Shatter in PvP (if you were running something, you considered as kitten)
Now after the patch. Not even 1 weak had passed and yet you were already calling them OP.

Understand that Strong is not OP.

Mesmer is now a strong class, they were used to be targeted at first in group fight.
But now people trying this are burning their fingers, and call them OP.
Using 4-5 skill to burst someone is not OP, it is strong.

OP is Barrage grenade now, how it is. OP was turret before change.
May be you should take time to understand what changed and what you can do against it, before calling them OP.
Running berserk or Marrauder is a risk. getting burst is risk. But you can choose not use those, and you won’t get burst so quickly.
it is easier to win now, but let’s thing settling down before calling them OP.
There are stronger class.

this +1 from me. I couldnt have said it better. Also mesmers were able to play this class with all the bugs and a horrible traitsystem that was the leftover after all the nerfs we had. now that we are brought up in line with other classes and dont have to walk an extra 7 miles just to deal damage like any other class, people are freaking out.
they forget that they are facing people that have mastered this class and they dont like being outplayed by mesmers.

thieves: -How dare they have this much stealth. how dare they use and aoe shatter
while im in stealth, how dare they interrupt my 22222222222 combo.
war: – how dare they interrupt me, how dare they not being permalocked down,
how dare they evade my earthshaker, 11111111112 combo
engi: – distortion ugh, but oh well i got my grenades XD

ele: – how dare mes interrupt my d/d combos

Ranger: – how dare they reflect my rapidfire spam

so how about adapting your playstyle for once? mes had to do that all the time.

Toxsa.2701:

Ignorance Ignorance Ignorance.

Many Engi wants their OP bugged grenade barrage gone.
Many Ele wants their insane burning stack gone.
Many Guardians want their insane burning stack gone.
For thief idk, maybe not.

This video pretty much sums up what’s wrong with Mesmer and Guardian.

https://youtu.be/46hPricq-RQ

You can keep making excuses. You can keep acting blind. You can keep giving silly arguments. You can keep pretending that the spec is weak. You can keep bringing up unrelated stuffs to justify this.

You can keep defending this BS, but you’d quickly see a dying GW2 pvp community. (Not like it’s not dying already.)

engi forum
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer
ele forum
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist
and guard forum
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian

not many as “mesmer” as i’ve seen it

It’s quite arrogant to think that we (as in, the forum people) had a hand in those nerfs, sorry.

Yes we’re vocal, but the devs would be very amateurish if they’d listen to us. Remember, correlation != cause.

It is definitely not just other classes calling for mes nerfs, but a few vocal mes mains. There are just some people who don’t like change even when it is beneficial. The changes actually make the class more accessible to new players, and I think some self-styled gurus feel threatened by that. I agree with the posters who are wondering why mes are getting so much attention when Guards, Engi and Necros have been given ridiculous dps skill burst and sustain.

I’ll add if you’ve become very good at fighting with a broom handle, god help everyone when you get hold of a sword. Mes are definitely not OP, we’ve learnt to use underpowered tools, and dodge/kite with a sliver of health for so long that any beneficial skill tweaking pays big dividends to the dedicated player.

I’ve never really understood the self sabotaging that happens here. It is very bizarre, and comes across as elitism among a few. However all mes pay the price. Well these people don’t speak for me and I’m pretty sure not for most of the mes community either.

selan.8354:

Seyiwaji.4082:

Mesmer OP or Strong let’s clarify

Mesmer was a weak class, bound Phantasm or Condi in PvE and Shatter in PvP (if you were running something, you considered as kitten)
Now after the patch. Not even 1 weak had passed and yet you were already calling them OP.

Understand that Strong is not OP.

Mesmer is now a strong class, they were used to be targeted at first in group fight.
But now people trying this are burning their fingers, and call them OP.
Using 4-5 skill to burst someone is not OP, it is strong.

OP is Barrage grenade now, how it is. OP was turret before change.
May be you should take time to understand what changed and what you can do against it, before calling them OP.
Running berserk or Marrauder is a risk. getting burst is risk. But you can choose not use those, and you won’t get burst so quickly.
it is easier to win now, but let’s thing settling down before calling them OP.
There are stronger class.

this +1 from me. I couldnt have said it better. Also mesmers were able to play this class with all the bugs and a horrible traitsystem that was the leftover after all the nerfs we had. now that we are brought up in line with other classes and dont have to walk an extra 7 miles just to deal damage like any other class, people are freaking out.
they forget that they are facing people that have mastered this class and they dont like being outplayed by mesmers.

thieves: -How dare they have this much stealth. how dare they use and aoe shatter
while im in stealth, how dare they interrupt my 22222222222 combo.
war: – how dare they interrupt me, how dare they not being permalocked down,
how dare they evade my earthshaker, 11111111112 combo
engi: – distortion ugh, but oh well i got my grenades XD

ele: – how dare mes interrupt my d/d combos

Ranger: – how dare they reflect my rapidfire spam

so how about adapting your playstyle for once? mes had to do that all the time.

As zerk class, Mesmer is always in a better position than zerk ranger and zerk necro due to more reliable burst and better utilities. In the past, mesmer doesn’t dominates in the Meta only because thief is stopping him. But for the rest, Mesmer do better than any other zerk classes.

Seriously, stop trying to play victim. Mesmer was the 2nd strongest zerk class even before the patch. Now they’re official the strongest zerk class after patch. Seriously, just stop playing victim and pretend you’re the “poor child” throughout GW2 history. It is far from true. Ranger and Necro always have it worse than you.

We have people that care for actual balance rather than not questioning things that may be under- or overpowered, perhaps? It is the healthy response to anything, have a critical eye.

Aomine.5012:

Seriously, stop trying to play victim. Mesmer was the 2nd strongest zerk class even before the patch.

You’re hilarious. Second strongest class that wasn’t even in the meta. lol!

Seriously though, I liked the posted video. I felt the Guardian was generally very honest, even if a little biased (of course), but still he was honest that his stuff was at least as broken as the Mesmer burst thing if not more. Yes, the Mesmer burst was inflated with some unrealistic aspects, but that Mesmer was twice the player I’ll ever dream of being, and I trust that he is not out to kill Mesmers, but to balance the game.

What I thought was interesting was that without Inspiration he literally had no chance against the Burn Guardian. All that supposed 100-0 thing was completely gone, he couldn’t get his bursts off. So apparently it’s not so 100% as people are claiming, even the video itself. I don’t remember, but I’m guessing the Guardian was not still in the 23k & 3400 Armor build, surely he switched to a more balanced and favorable build before the duel? And still, no 100-0, actually no ridiculous damage bursts at all. Clearly the issue there is that it requires so many button pushes that it’s pretty prone to failure.

They were entertaining duels and most were close, although once Mesmer went Illusions he won pretty much all of them. (In turn w/o it Guardian won all.)

Very good video. I have to admit that both these guys sound sensible, and so does MailMail and many others here.

I agree with you in principle, I want a balanced game too and I don’t want to play an OPd FoTM Mesmer, however I want to stay on the side of caution and avoid giving into “knee jerk” emotional balancing, and give it a few more days for players to adjust builds and more clearly see where the main issues are.

I think Pyro’s suggestion for CS sounds pretty reasonable. However, before we touch on too many traits, ANet needs to make a much larger decision on where they want the games damage to be. Just as the guys in the video, I strongly feel there was a general significant power creep for both Condie and direct damage. They either need to improve the scaling of Toughness and/or Vit to match, or reduce Power & Condition damage a tad.

If you nerf traits before you solve that fundamental problem, I think you’re just watering down all the hard work put into this giant patch.

Windwalker.7421:

I agree with you in principle, I want a balanced game too and I don’t want to play an OPd FoTM Mesmer, however I want to stay on the side of caution and avoid giving into “knee jerk” emotional balancing, and give it a few more days for players to adjust builds and more clearly see where the main issues are.

I think Pyro’s suggestion for CS sounds pretty reasonable. However, before we touch on too many traits, ANet needs to make a much larger decision on where they want the games damage to be. Just as the guys in the video, I strongly feel there was a general significant power creep for both Condie and direct damage. They either need to improve the scaling of Toughness and/or Vit to match, or reduce Power & Condition damage a tad.

If you nerf traits before you solve that fundamental problem, I think you’re just watering down all the hard work put into this giant patch.

Totally agree. There is a priority and balancing classes now when there are more basic issues at stake is not a good idea.

Mesmers have always been a difficult class to play against (similar to thieves) because you need to know how our abilities work in order to counter it. Unlike warrior which is pretty easy to understand and counter. Once people start getting familiar with how mesmers play in this new meta, some of our seeming “power” will gradually lessen. I would hope that Anet fixes some of the core issues first so as to give people some more time to get adjusted to how every other class is playing now and to develop counters for it. This will help insure that balance is done with the long haul in mind.

I have broght out only things what are 2 cheezy mesmers shood use theyr skills smart and I don’t want us to be new warrior were you can just smash ur head into keyboard and spamm all skills

WTF are you people talking about? There are people in every sub complaining about the changes to their classes

Windwalker.7421:

Very good video. I have to admit that both these guys sound sensible, and so does MailMail and many others here.

I agree with you in principle, I want a balanced game too and I don’t want to play an OPd FoTM Mesmer, however I want to stay on the side of caution and avoid giving into “knee jerk” emotional balancing, and give it a few more days for players to adjust builds and more clearly see where the main issues are.

I think Pyro’s suggestion for CS sounds pretty reasonable. However, before we touch on too many traits, ANet needs to make a much larger decision on where they want the games damage to be. Just as the guys in the video, I strongly feel there was a general significant power creep for both Condie and direct damage. They either need to improve the scaling of Toughness and/or Vit to match, or reduce Power & Condition damage a tad.

If you nerf traits before you solve that fundamental problem, I think you’re just watering down all the hard work put into this giant patch.

This is a fair point.

We are the all singing, all dancing, crap of the world.

Leodon.1564:

Windwalker.7421:

I agree with you in principle, I want a balanced game too and I don’t want to play an OPd FoTM Mesmer, however I want to stay on the side of caution and avoid giving into “knee jerk” emotional balancing, and give it a few more days for players to adjust builds and more clearly see where the main issues are.

I think Pyro’s suggestion for CS sounds pretty reasonable. However, before we touch on too many traits, ANet needs to make a much larger decision on where they want the games damage to be. Just as the guys in the video, I strongly feel there was a general significant power creep for both Condie and direct damage. They either need to improve the scaling of Toughness and/or Vit to match, or reduce Power & Condition damage a tad.

If you nerf traits before you solve that fundamental problem, I think you’re just watering down all the hard work put into this giant patch.

Totally agree. There is a priority and balancing classes now when there are more basic issues at stake is not a good idea.

Mesmers have always been a difficult class to play against (similar to thieves) because you need to know how our abilities work in order to counter it. Unlike warrior which is pretty easy to understand and counter. Once people start getting familiar with how mesmers play in this new meta, some of our seeming “power” will gradually lessen. I would hope that Anet fixes some of the core issues first so as to give people some more time to get adjusted to how every other class is playing now and to develop counters for it. This will help insure that balance is done with the long haul in mind.

How can we have faith in Anet when they didnt give enough time for the new changes to “sink in” with the community? Look at all the nerfs to Mesmers so far, they are not warranted. Yet true OP trait like PU is ignored.

Its called stockholme syndrome. You get imprisoned by panic strike, bountiful theft sleight of handed oh my god get me out of this living hell for 3 years and you begin to form an emotional attachment to your captor.

Mr. teef come back. All those times you beat me I know its only because you cared…

The answer is that the “Mesmer community” is made up of idiots who were happy to play portal/+1 to fights bot for years and years. It was never what the class was intended for and now it can reliably fulfil its role they’re getting their panties twisted. Great reason why the devs should’ve ignored the forums from the start.

Vague Memory.2817:

It is definitely not just other classes calling for mes nerfs, but a few vocal mes mains. There are just some people who don’t like change even when it is beneficial. The changes actually make the class more accessible to new players, and I think some self-styled gurus feel threatened by that. I agree with the posters who are wondering why mes are getting so much attention when Guards, Engi and Necros have been given ridiculous dps skill burst and sustain.

I’ll add if you’ve become very good at fighting with a broom handle, god help everyone when you get hold of a sword. Mes are definitely not OP, we’ve learnt to use underpowered tools, and dodge/kite with a sliver of health for so long that any beneficial skill tweaking pays big dividends to the dedicated player.

I’ve never really understood the self sabotaging that happens here. It is very bizarre, and comes across as elitism among a few. However all mes pay the price. Well these people don’t speak for me and I’m pretty sure not for most of the mes community either.

^ This

Cannot really speak for the Engineer. The current amount of bugs makes it laughable, in a good, and bad way.

Just to add one more build to the list of ridiculous Power-burst professions that very well can compete with the P-Shatter burst, I ran into a Rifle Engie earlier. We all know about Grenade Barrage, and he 100-1%ed me with that when he caught me from behind with all my stuff up, I managed to make a close getaway thanks to F4, Blink and Stealth. OK that’s broken and will surely be fixed.

However, ran into him shortly after and he pulled a combo (from Stealth!) and almost insta-gibbed me again. It was something like Jump Shot=>Blunderbuss and something else I forget, and each of the first two hits was over 6.5k, while the last hit for around 4k. All pretty much in the same instant and from Stealth.

This was without GB or obviously I’dda been dead as a doornail instantly.

Not crying here, just sayin’….we’re not the only ones with a 100-0 capability. (Granted, the insta stun does make a difference.)

This has been a most interesting thread to read. To start, I’m fairly new to MMOs overall, and GW2 has been amazing for me so far, for more reasons than I feel I need to express. Mesmer was my first pick for a class, and reading this forum does show why I think.

The sentiment, while on some level egotistical, does play out that such a class will draw a more intelligent crowd with critical thinking skills. I don’t say this to say the other players are neanderthals, but you have to have a certain level of intelligence just to deal with the complexities of the class. The desire for balance is admirable, if the proverbial unicorn hunt, even if no one else cares.

The flip side is we are critical thinkers and intelligent. Thus we will weigh in on our ideas on how to fix X, or why Y is over-powered or under-powered, and make suggestions for how to fix these things. We are still individuals, however, so each of us will make these suggestions based on our unique vantage point on the game, be that PvP, WvW, PvE, etc. or just some vision in our heads of what Mesmer should be. And we will proceed to intelligently (and occasionally heatedly) argue over it.

Our strength is our weakness. It always has been, whether here or in a philosophy group or a science lab or the old Greek forums. And no one will appreciate what we do here but us.

Windwalker.7421:

Just to add one more build to the list of ridiculous Power-burst professions that very well can compete with the P-Shatter burst, I ran into a Rifle Engie earlier. We all know about Grenade Barrage, and he 100-1%ed me with that when he caught me from behind with all my stuff up, I managed to make a close getaway thanks to F4, Blink and Stealth. OK that’s broken and will surely be fixed.

However, ran into him shortly after and he pulled a combo (from Stealth!) and almost insta-gibbed me again. It was something like Jump Shot=>Blunderbuss and something else I forget, and each of the first two hits was over 6.5k, while the last hit for around 4k. All pretty much in the same instant and from Stealth.

This was without GB or obviously I’dda been dead as a doornail instantly.

Not crying here, just sayin’….we’re not the only ones with a 100-0 capability. (Granted, the insta stun does make a difference.)

The difference is not much has been done to Engi (assume Anet is giving time for ‘proper’ evaluation), yet Mesmers get the heavy-handed nerfs the first week of the balance patch, and on traits that are not OP. Why couldn’t they give Mesmer’s changes more time?

Well, in WvW and sPvP im having fun that i can only match to the fun i had pre-confusion nerf years ago…. i feel currently that Mesmer has a proper balance against any other class in pvp

PvE, sadly, its a different story. Yes, Mesmer needs a trait line that offers players a chance to not be that “support” class, but a dps one of they like.

As stated above, we should let ANet launch the upcoming HoT and see where the new meta lands…

Me? i think ANet knows what they are doing and that HoT will bring much to the meta table.

GL HF

Niminion.1982:

Superman is cheesy. Batman is pro.

This mostly.

I’m not a mesmer player, but I will say I’ve had some decent fights with them so far. I don’t know how broken they are, but they’re fightable.

Vague Memory.2817:

It is definitely not just other classes calling for mes nerfs, but a few vocal mes mains. There are just some people who don’t like change even when it is beneficial. The changes actually make the class more accessible to new players, and I think some self-styled gurus feel threatened by that. I agree with the posters who are wondering why mes are getting so much attention when Guards, Engi and Necros have been given ridiculous dps skill burst and sustain.

I’ll add if you’ve become very good at fighting with a broom handle, god help everyone when you get hold of a sword. Mes are definitely not OP, we’ve learnt to use underpowered tools, and dodge/kite with a sliver of health for so long that any beneficial skill tweaking pays big dividends to the dedicated player.

I’ve never really understood the self sabotaging that happens here. It is very bizarre, and comes across as elitism among a few. However all mes pay the price. Well these people don’t speak for me and I’m pretty sure not for most of the mes community either.

I’m going to +1 this post as well.

I ve not read all the comments here, but I think we ‘re talking about new patch mesms changes.
Who said mesms are not OP, I said : mesms are kitten OP.
I play mesmer as I play thief. With who say “thief, stealth, bla bla bla” now mesmers have more stealth than thieves… PU give them a random boons too, thing to not understimate.
Mind wrack deals more damage as well, and u can shatter every 10 second.
with a full zerk gear mesmers have a really high health, a thief can’t play with a full zerk gear cause he’ll has 11k health. MtD then, stun and daze together, instant cast, 1200 range, no time to recharge ( cause we all know that if you have the 2 mantra, the skills automatically recharge the 30 seconds). then reflection on every dodge. And this is the shatter one, without talk about the condition one…
Before the patch mesmer was a class, like thief, that you had to play as well, you could be suck as you could be the strongest. Now even a noob like me can play a mesmer!
So continue to say mesms is NOT OP…

Solori.6025:

But in this class community.
We have people advocating for everything we have be Nerfed into the ground before the dust for a new meta even settles.
why are we like this? I am genuinely curious.

Because Mesmer players are on average more skillful than people who do not play this class. A better understanding of the game and our class means that we can better identify where the class is unbalanced, whereas the plebs playing other classes simply just ask for blanket buffs simply due to a lack of understanding.

“Mesmer players are, on average, more skilled” mostly reads like hollow back-patting.

To the extent that it is true at all, it’s just because there are fewer folks sticking with mesmers on the very low end. I run into plenty of straight-up mediocre mesmers in WvW and PvP, however (and, honestly, with the patch changes, they’re still mediocre — they hit harder now, closer to a glass ranger, but they’re just as easy to play around because they don’t use their abilities efficiently even by my pretty lazy standards).

To answer the original question: we, as a class, have been kicked into the dirt enough to where we’re kind of accustomed to it. I’ve referred to Mesmer Stockholm Syndrome over the years, with good reason.

The hard part is figuring what any case of wanting to nerf or adjust things is either:

• A valid complaint. For example, the current state of Confounding Suggestions can be argued to be a bit too good. With that in mind, it’s sensible for Mesmer players to offer some (workable) way to bring it in line. We let ANet go at it under their own … logic, CS won’t get tweaked, it’ll get frigging neutered.

• The aforementioned Mesmer Stockholm Syndrome. IMO, anyone who thinks MtD is fine after the nerf, makes me wonder what they’re up to. After all, said trait was originally 1 stack/clone, and was almost never used. We finally get some mileage at 2/per, and ANet craps on it again. Meh.

As always, your own mileage might vary. I claim no advanced psychological understanding, merely opinions created through observation.

Windwalker.7421:

Just to add one more build to the list of ridiculous Power-burst professions that very well can compete with the P-Shatter burst, I ran into a Rifle Engie earlier. We all know about Grenade Barrage, and he 100-1%ed me with that when he caught me from behind with all my stuff up, I managed to make a close getaway thanks to F4, Blink and Stealth. OK that’s broken and will surely be fixed.

However, ran into him shortly after and he pulled a combo (from Stealth!) and almost insta-gibbed me again. It was something like Jump Shot=>Blunderbuss and something else I forget, and each of the first two hits was over 6.5k, while the last hit for around 4k. All pretty much in the same instant and from Stealth.

This was without GB or obviously I’dda been dead as a doornail instantly.

Not crying here, just sayin’….we’re not the only ones with a 100-0 capability. (Granted, the insta stun does make a difference.)

Jump shot+ passive rocket followed by throwwrench to proc lighting then blunderbuss..
Usually that kills people for me. averages about 10-13k if everything crits and procs fire and air.

Solori.6025:

Jump shot+ passive rocket followed by throwwrench to proc lighting then blunderbuss..
Usually that kills people for me. averages about 10-13k if everything crits and procs fire and air.

Well this guy hit JS for 6.5k and BB for 6.5k, so 10-13k is being very conservative. ;-)

NIKJOLDBHORN.7315:

I ve not read all the comments here, but I think we ‘re talking about new patch mesms changes.
Who said mesms are not OP, I said : mesms are kitten OP.
I play mesmer as I play thief. With who say “thief, stealth, bla bla bla” now mesmers have more stealth than thieves… PU give them a random boons too, thing to not understimate.
Mind wrack deals more damage as well, and u can shatter every 10 second.
with a full zerk gear mesmers have a really high health, a thief can’t play with a full zerk gear cause he’ll has 11k health. MtD then, stun and daze together, instant cast, 1200 range, no time to recharge ( cause we all know that if you have the 2 mantra, the skills automatically recharge the 30 seconds). then reflection on every dodge. And this is the shatter one, without talk about the condition one…
Before the patch mesmer was a class, like thief, that you had to play as well, you could be suck as you could be the strongest. Now even a noob like me can play a mesmer!
So continue to say mesms is NOT OP…

3 things wrong.

1. If you can not play zerk thief when on these forums we have people complaining that backstab is basically 2 shotting them

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Maybe-Backstab-should-have-a-cool-down

Especially when you can get auto attacks for 4k.
YOU are the issue.

Thief can not be played mindlessly any more and it’s showing.

2. Their is not a function in game that allows the mesmer to have more access to stealth than a thief.
I can list 3 skills that have no CD that give the thief stealth that it can also rotate alone to keep itself stealth.
If you can’t figure that out with a thief then that is again your issue.

So for “mesmer having more stealth than a thief” that is 100% false.

3. Before patch anyone could play a thief and shut down anyother zerk class besides guard.
Zerk ele= thief bait
Zerk necro= LOL
Mesmer= hardcountered by thief in many situations
etc. etc.

you get my point.
No thief was not hard to play, to the point that I mostly spvp’d on the thief because it +1’d and roamed better.

Now other classes (that’s plural because it’s more than mes) can +1 or burst a target down.

Thieves actually need to play like assassins instead of blackpowder blind spam or dodge tanks.

Kinda like it was at launch when a thief and a mesmer were almost on equal footing.

Windwalker.7421:

Solori.6025:

Jump shot+ passive rocket followed by throwwrench to proc lighting then blunderbuss..
Usually that kills people for me. averages about 10-13k if everything crits and procs fire and air.

Well this guy hit JS for 6.5k and BB for 6.5k, so 10-13k is being very conservative. ;-)

Oh nice, full zerk I’m guessing, sounds funny tbh

When they fix the grenade bug ( 3months from now) engineers will still have a way to 100-0 someone out of stealth in a few seconds.
Nice to know really

It’s funny because pre-patch when we were at the bottom of the food chain, we asked Anet for “balance”. Now tell me, this before all the talks of the spec patch, what was the situation? Was Anet exhilarated on giving us balance without mention of the new specs? And now the people who are expecting balance post patch think that we won’t take a large hit while others take minor hits for the sake of “balance”.

I’m welcome to Anet proving me oh so wrong. But history says otherwise.

Mesmers have never been bottom of the food chain. Nowhere near it.

Caelus.7139:

It’s funny because pre-patch . . . we asked Anet for “balance”.

Yes, and these members of the community are again asking for balance. Except balance does not mean “now it’s time to make mesmers OP.” It means balance.

Besetment.9187:

Mesmers have never been bottom of the food chain. Nowhere near it.

Tpvp meta actually proves this statement false.

A lot of top teams don’t make use of mesmer because the thief was able to basically plus one and back cap better.
While a mesmer was only ever useful for portal.
I can’t really remember the last time a mesmer was in the meta and was on equal footing to a thief as far as +1’ing a fight or being used as anything OTHER than a portal bot.
From the first TOL I remember someone made a pole of what professions were picked between the teams and mesmer, while not at the very bottom was no where near the top, and I believe very VERY few teams actually made it towards the finals with a mesmer in the team comp ( not talking about helseth so don’t bring him up).

That is not an argument for shatter being bottom of the food chain. It is an argument that S/D and D/P have historically been preferred over shatter as roamers in tournament play.

The more I play, the less powerful I feel mesmer is.
Every other class seems to have either one shot build or sustain build.

apharma.3741:

Toxsa.2701:

Ignorance Ignorance Ignorance.

Many Engi wants their OP bugged grenade barrage gone.
Many Ele wants their insane burning stack gone.
Many Guardians want their insane burning stack gone.
For thief idk, maybe not.

This video pretty much sums up what’s wrong with Mesmer and Guardian.

https://youtu.be/46hPricq-RQ

You can keep making excuses. You can keep acting blind. You can keep giving silly arguments. You can keep pretending that the spec is weak. You can keep bringing up unrelated stuffs to justify this.

You can keep defending this BS, but you’d quickly see a dying GW2 pvp community. (Not like it’s not dying already.)

My favourite quote of that video: “Oh I messed up” followed by “Oh I messed up” and the repeated “I messed up” on an ideal long channel guard sitting there doing nothing but the most obvious channel in the game.

I also like how he used all his utilities, made sure he had all his damage procs going, used scholar runes everything to get absolute make burst.

Go watch JebroUnity channel on twitch, got a game or two with helseth and frostball, check their burst on competent players and use something like that as a comparison.

At the end of the day the only thing in that whole combo that is different from pre patch is the mantra of distraction for confounding suggestions and power block. Could it be what’s actually “broken” is the stat inflation and that marauder has about 10% more crit chance, more ferocity and power than the old zerker?

@mailmail yeah there’s a lot of things that if the ICD was per target they would work better and be either stronger and balanced or less powerful and balanced. I hope those kinds of things get implemented.

Jeez I am sorry I am not perfect and that I fat finger my burst sometimes. Keep in mind that the damage I was doing was to a guardian with 3.2k armor and 21k hp and about half the video was done i swapped back to strength. That video was to show how much damage there is atm, and if you watched towards the end Arken and I started to duel. After the recording, he swapped to mara power guard and i was basically one shotting him. It didnt matter if i had power block on (Mental anguish does similar dps without an interrupt).

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

apharma.3741:

Toxsa.2701:

Ignorance Ignorance Ignorance.

Many Engi wants their OP bugged grenade barrage gone.
Many Ele wants their insane burning stack gone.
Many Guardians want their insane burning stack gone.
For thief idk, maybe not.

This video pretty much sums up what’s wrong with Mesmer and Guardian.

https://youtu.be/46hPricq-RQ

You can keep making excuses. You can keep acting blind. You can keep giving silly arguments. You can keep pretending that the spec is weak. You can keep bringing up unrelated stuffs to justify this.

You can keep defending this BS, but you’d quickly see a dying GW2 pvp community. (Not like it’s not dying already.)

My favourite quote of that video: “Oh I messed up” followed by “Oh I messed up” and the repeated “I messed up” on an ideal long channel guard sitting there doing nothing but the most obvious channel in the game.

I also like how he used all his utilities, made sure he had all his damage procs going, used scholar runes everything to get absolute make burst.

Go watch JebroUnity channel on twitch, got a game or two with helseth and frostball, check their burst on competent players and use something like that as a comparison.

At the end of the day the only thing in that whole combo that is different from pre patch is the mantra of distraction for confounding suggestions and power block. Could it be what’s actually “broken” is the stat inflation and that marauder has about 10% more crit chance, more ferocity and power than the old zerker?

@mailmail yeah there’s a lot of things that if the ICD was per target they would work better and be either stronger and balanced or less powerful and balanced. I hope those kinds of things get implemented.

Jeez I am sorry I am not perfect and that I fat finger my burst sometimes. Keep in mind that the damage I was doing was to a guardian with 3.2k armor and 21k hp and about half the video was done i swapped back to strength. That video was to show how much damage there is atm, and if you watched towards the end Arken and I started to duel. After the recording, he swapped to mara power guard and i was basically one shotting him. It didnt matter if i had power block on (Mental anguish does similar dps without an interrupt).

Not all of us are as good as you though…

Exciton.8942:

The more I play, the less powerful I feel mesmer is.

I’m starting to agree, and seeing the principal problem now as one of power creep.

In the current world of high damage, some of mesmers’ new skills are contributing to the problem. But if damage is toned down across the board, or if amulets get a little tough/vit, we’d seem less OP.

Bunda.2691:

Exciton.8942:

The more I play, the less powerful I feel mesmer is.

I’m starting to agree, and seeing the principal problem now as one of power creep.

In the current world of high damage, some of mesmers’ new skills are contributing to the problem. But if damage is toned down across the board, or if amulets get a little tough/bit, we’d seem less OP.

if Anet is going to bring down the dmg, I hope they revisit the nerfs on MtD and Chaotic Dampening. Those were very heavy-handed, compare to nerfs to other classes.

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

apharma.3741:

Toxsa.2701:

Ignorance Ignorance Ignorance.

Many Engi wants their OP bugged grenade barrage gone.
Many Ele wants their insane burning stack gone.
Many Guardians want their insane burning stack gone.
For thief idk, maybe not.

This video pretty much sums up what’s wrong with Mesmer and Guardian.

https://youtu.be/46hPricq-RQ

You can keep making excuses. You can keep acting blind. You can keep giving silly arguments. You can keep pretending that the spec is weak. You can keep bringing up unrelated stuffs to justify this.

You can keep defending this BS, but you’d quickly see a dying GW2 pvp community. (Not like it’s not dying already.)

My favourite quote of that video: “Oh I messed up” followed by “Oh I messed up” and the repeated “I messed up” on an ideal long channel guard sitting there doing nothing but the most obvious channel in the game.

I also like how he used all his utilities, made sure he had all his damage procs going, used scholar runes everything to get absolute make burst.

Go watch JebroUnity channel on twitch, got a game or two with helseth and frostball, check their burst on competent players and use something like that as a comparison.

At the end of the day the only thing in that whole combo that is different from pre patch is the mantra of distraction for confounding suggestions and power block. Could it be what’s actually “broken” is the stat inflation and that marauder has about 10% more crit chance, more ferocity and power than the old zerker?

@mailmail yeah there’s a lot of things that if the ICD was per target they would work better and be either stronger and balanced or less powerful and balanced. I hope those kinds of things get implemented.

Jeez I am sorry I am not perfect and that I fat finger my burst sometimes. Keep in mind that the damage I was doing was to a guardian with 3.2k armor and 21k hp and about half the video was done i swapped back to strength. That video was to show how much damage there is atm, and if you watched towards the end Arken and I started to duel. After the recording, he swapped to mara power guard and i was basically one shotting him. It didnt matter if i had power block on (Mental anguish does similar dps without an interrupt).

You have a reputation for being certainly above average if not one of the top Mesmer players. If you were having trouble executing the burst combo ferpectly every time even when the opponent gave you the perfect circumstances for all the damage then I would say it’s out of the reach of most fotm players who don’t invest time.

I watched half the video as it was a bit boring watching the same thing being repeated over and over for 10 mins and having to turn up the volume to hear what you were saying before the guardian screaming to high heaven, which was annoying due to the volume differences. I’ll look towards the end at the duels though.

Also, I know the feeling of having less dexterous fingers, makes doing things like that very hard =(

Swap Confounding Suggestions (or remove it) and Imagined Burden. Make Mirror Blade blockable. /mesmerbalanced /anetpls

It’s not the damage or the kite that is absurd but the lack of counterplay to go up against a class that can instant cast stun you for 1.25s into their burst, from a relatively high stealth uptime included.

vox.9027:

It’s not the damage or the kite that is absurd but the lack of counterplay to go up against a class that can instant cast stun you for 1.25s into their burst, from a relatively high stealth uptime included.

… Isn’t that just thieves with Basilisk Venom in a nutshell? (Especially now that it’s two activations.)

Bunda.2691:

Caelus.7139:

It’s funny because pre-patch . . . we asked Anet for “balance”.

Yes, and these members of the community are again asking for balance. Except balance does not mean “now it’s time to make mesmers OP.” It means balance.

Except I’m pertaining to the fact that without the spec patch or any mention of it, Anet liked to ignore our call for our balance and being put on par with other classes. I’m pertaining to the fact of how ANet treats this class in terms of their “balance”.

shimmerless.4560:

Vague Memory.2817:

It is definitely not just other classes calling for mes nerfs, but a few vocal mes mains. There are just some people who don’t like change even when it is beneficial. The changes actually make the class more accessible to new players, and I think some self-styled gurus feel threatened by that. I agree with the posters who are wondering why mes are getting so much attention when Guards, Engi and Necros have been given ridiculous dps skill burst and sustain.

I’ll add if you’ve become very good at fighting with a broom handle, god help everyone when you get hold of a sword. Mes are definitely not OP, we’ve learnt to use underpowered tools, and dodge/kite with a sliver of health for so long that any beneficial skill tweaking pays big dividends to the dedicated player.

I’ve never really understood the self sabotaging that happens here. It is very bizarre, and comes across as elitism among a few. However all mes pay the price. Well these people don’t speak for me and I’m pretty sure not for most of the mes community either.

^ This

Sorry, just feel the need to change one thing. There x)
- condition necro is out of the picture
1. necro condition—bleed [formula] is weaker than before patch for the grave sake, and staff bleeding was nerfed ^^

- power necro
1. Unless you are referring to our “unholy” 15-20 seconds elite — lich form, with 120 or 180 seconds cd, that can hit 7k to light armour with a zerk necro? :X
2. Or the return of conditions back to the owner… >.>… that is not even our damage to begin with… we are a soaking sponge, or perhaps a condi mirror after the patch.

Then i present you…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46hPricq-RQ&feature=youtu.be
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OH-aB4mwAOk

In anyway, I don’t mean to call for nerf. But, I do agree and believe that balance is always the key for a fun game, where classes have their own uniqueness, but yet not OP when compared to an overall comparison (even if one day necro will truly becomes OP in some ways, balance is needed). Gosh, i spoke (i mean typed) too much… in anyway, just to clear one thing up; don’t include necro in ridiculous dps and burst.

Cause it is well known that mesmer players love the challenge,and w/o one it is not worth playing!

ZeroStrifeX.2183:

shimmerless.4560:

Vague Memory.2817:

It is definitely not just other classes calling for mes nerfs, but a few vocal mes mains. There are just some people who don’t like change even when it is beneficial. The changes actually make the class more accessible to new players, and I think some self-styled gurus feel threatened by that. I agree with the posters who are wondering why mes are getting so much attention when Guards, Engi and Necros have been given ridiculous dps skill burst and sustain.

I’ll add if you’ve become very good at fighting with a broom handle, god help everyone when you get hold of a sword. Mes are definitely not OP, we’ve learnt to use underpowered tools, and dodge/kite with a sliver of health for so long that any beneficial skill tweaking pays big dividends to the dedicated player.

I’ve never really understood the self sabotaging that happens here. It is very bizarre, and comes across as elitism among a few. However all mes pay the price. Well these people don’t speak for me and I’m pretty sure not for most of the mes community either.

^ This

Sorry, just feel the need to change one thing. There x)
- condition necro is out of the picture
1. necro condition—bleed [formula] is weaker than before patch for the grave sake, and staff bleeding was nerfed ^^

- power necro
1. Unless you are referring to our “unholy” 15-20 seconds elite — lich form, with 120 or 180 seconds cd, that can hit 7k to light armour with a zerk necro? :X
2. Or the return of conditions back to the owner… >.>… that is not even our damage to begin with… we are a soaking sponge, or perhaps a condi mirror after the patch.

Then i present you…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46hPricq-RQ&feature=youtu.be
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OH-aB4mwAOk

In anyway, I don’t mean to call for nerf. But, I do agree and believe that balance is always the key for a fun game, where classes have their own uniqueness, but yet not OP when compared to an overall comparison (even if one day necro will truly becomes OP in some ways, balance is needed). Gosh, i spoke (i mean typed) too much… in anyway, just to clear one thing up; don’t include necro in ridiculous dps and burst.

Until last night I hadn’t come across any eles abusing the broken conditions. But it seems like that burns build is catching on, so sure add them to the list. I did come across 1 team yesterday when I was in a pug that had an Mes (for stuns/interrupts?), Engi using broken grenade barrage, Ele using the burns build, and the Guard using some inhumanly fast combination that was an insta kill (which he could pull off without fail). Can’t remember what the 5th class was. Essentially they were a premade that was going through ranked killing pugs by abusing all the broken conditions/skills currently in-game. One even had the audacity to say we shouldn’t be playing in ranked, despite none of our members abusing these OP broken builds.

I’ve not come across any mes in sPvP who can pull off that combination in the video, in fact the guy in the vid couldn’t do it reliably either. Empirically I’ve not met any OP Mes in sPvP that can down me instantly from 21K health.

Fortunately most of the people I’ve met in ranked aren’t using these obviously broken conditions/skills for cheap wins. I included necros because currently they are now likely one of the hardest classes to beat in sPvP. Their combination of silly sustain (usually requiring 2 or 3 players to bring down a good one) with their siphon/wells etc abilities they can drain my 21K health in secs. If that is not burst I don’t know what is.

You could say that ele build was catching fire =D

I got no more puns for the rest so don’t burn me.

Caelus.7139:

Except I’m pertaining to the fact that without the spec patch or any mention of it, Anet liked to ignore our call for our balance and being put on par with other classes. I’m pertaining to the fact of how ANet treats this class in terms of their “balance”.

Since every class shares this opinion, I guess they did, in fact, achieve balance?