Guild Wars 2

Edit: Build updated 5/9/2013 to focus more heavily on condition damage, removing all the build’s power.

VIDEOS W/ REVISED BUILD:
2( 6/19): A very short video showing two fights; one before the bounce change and one after. Shows that the build is still viable. http://youtu.be/R7gAbZHjBW8
1: A collection of 1v2s and 1v3s against the fine folks from Yak’s Bend: http://youtu.be/ApgNT1cUT_s

OLD VIDEOS:
Video 1: Small-scale fighting (with zergs ruining the fun): http://youtu.be/Yxmqlv0yPIA
Video 2: 1 v Many: http://youtu.be/XQO1J8rSZXk
Video 3: Duels vs Necro/Elementalist: http://youtu.be/TlayyClKM8U
Video 4: Various roaming/underwater combat: http://youtu.be/6gjfHE0GhEQ

Dear Mesmer friends,

Recently we felt the sting of losing half of our confusion damage. Whether or not the change was necessary can be debated all day, but one thing is certain: there are many of our kind looking for alternatives which allow them to continue using the condition gear they worked so hard to obtain.

Fear not! I present to you my revised condition build! I designed this build today and used it primarily for roaming. The entire day, I didn’t lose to anything less than a 1v4, and even then, I almost always was able to escape with my life. In fact, the only times I really died with this build were when I was being careless or when a zerg jumped me.

Here is a link to the build: http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQNAW8flwzqpXUTmGb9IipHBHyBcoU0dZXJF22FC-jkyAINioZaBMVRQjKgkDLiGbVsIasKZioa1NmBPQ28lVDA-w

When looking at total stats, factor in Rare Veggie Pizza and a Tuning Crystal
Now, let me present a brief list of pros and cons for you to consider:

PROS:
• Incredible survivability because of high toughness, mobility, and stealth.
• Great sustained damage.
• Works well in solo or in small-to-medium sized groups.
• Uses almost all rabid gear, so those of you with full rabid gear are pretty much set!
• Able to stop people from running relatively well compared to most condition builds.
• High boon uptime.

CONS:
• Low burst damage.
• Minimal access to swiftness.
• Less effective in very large zergs.
• Requires consumables to be most effective.

Build Summary:
This build relies on staff clones for the majority of its DPS. While we lost the ability to dish out damage via confusion, we also recently gained the ability for staff clones to be affected by condition duration (see: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Undocumented-buff). This means that with the 50% condition duration this build has to offer, the staff can deliver plenty of damage. When I was testing this build, targets had nearly permanent burning on them, as well as a perpetual 10+ stacks of bleeding once the fight was in full swing. With pizza, tuning crystals, and the Sigil of Corruption, one ought to have enough condition damage to really make all those bleeds and burns hurt pretty quickly.
In terms of playstyle, the goal is to use stealth and teleporting skills to dance around the opponent while he dies to conditions inflicted by you and your staff clones. The primary method of clone generation is Phase Retreat and Deceptive Evasion. With your high vigor uptime, you shouldn’t have any problems keeping three clones up at all times.

Weapons:

Staff – As stated above, the staff is your primary DPS weapon, but also has amazing defensive skills. Just remember to keep staff clones up at all times; try not to use the iWarlock unless you need shatter fodder to finish off someone at low health. Also, remember that your methods of clone generation are also your methods of evading damage. As such, try to use that so that both goals can be achieved (i.e. don’t dodge when not taking damage just to make a clone if you think you’ll need that dodge in a moment to avoid damage). I feel that the role of the staff in this build is pretty obvious so I won’t go into huge detail, but feel free to ask about it if anything is unclear.

Sword (Revised 5/9) – The sword may seem like a strange choice for a condition build, but I assure you that it works wonderfully. It’s role is really as more of a utility pivot; that is, you can use it to immobilize runners, you can use it to become invulnerable, and you can even do a bit of damage with the iLeap, Blurred Frenzy combo (though damage from your conditions should take priority!). Just make sure you replace the sword clones with staff clones to prevent your DPS from falling!

Torch – An underrated weapon, but a great one nonetheless. The Prestige is a great skill. I love using it right after I use iLeap; it blinds the enemy, and I’m safe yet close enough to let the final blast hit and inflict damage. It should be noted that you should try and get the burn damage from torch as much as possible; with the condition duration and damage that you’ll have, you can quickly inflict ~3,000 damage to every target that gets the burn. Ultimately though, the stealth/burn from The Prestige is the only skill you’ll really use on the torch. You could use iMage for shatter fodder, but it probably isn’t worth it.

Final note on weapons: I would suspect that the focus or pistol could work well in this build too, if you’re willing to sacrifice survivability for more damage (pistol) or more utility (focus).

Skills:
• Ether Feast: A quality heal. Since you’ll be having three clones up at almost all times, the bonus healing from this is too good to pass up.
• Blink: Rather standard. Try blinking behind your opponent as he’s charging you to disorient him and buy some extra time. This skill is key as your success hinges on how well you can dance around your opponent as he withers away. Also, a blink+iLeap combo can be used to catch runners pretty effectively. Finally, there are all sorts of weird places Mesmers can blink to; try it out often and use the terrain to your advantage.
• Decoy: Again, this is pretty common on Mesmers. It gives you a few seconds of stealth, which will be very useful for dancing around your opponents.
• Arcane Thievery: A less common choice. I think Arcane Thievery is vital on this build because Mesmers need some form of condition removal (immobilize/cripple can be deadly!) and you don’t have the luxury of using -40% condition duration food (Lemongrass Poultry Stew or whatever it is). With your traits, Arcane Thievery has a 1200 range (if your staff is in range, Arcane Thievery is too!) and a cooldown of 40 seconds . Also, this skill is just as good at stealing boons as it is at sending conditions. I can’t count the number of times I’ve stolen vast swaths of boons from guardians, warriors, or elementalists; I assure you, being able to steal 10+ seconds of protection, some swiftness, or several stacks of might can easily swing a fight in your favor. However, Arcane Thievery requires some skill to use, because you have to pay close attention to the boons/conditions you and your opponents have whilst simultaneously making sure you aren’t blinded or your target isn’t immune to damage, which could cause the skill to fail.
• Mass Invisibility: I’m a fan of this as an elite because it is a great escape button. Having six seconds of stealth is a great way to get off an extra heal or just run away, plus you’ll have tons of boons via Lyssa runes and Prismatic Understanding. That being said, Time Warp may be more useful if you’re running with other people a lot.

Traits:

Dueling: 20 Points (I, X)
• Critical Infusion (Minor) – great for endurance regen, allowing you more dodges for both defensive and offensive purposes. This will have almost 100% uptime.
• Far-Reaching Manipulations (I) – Extends the range of both Blink and Arcane Thievery. Helps both with escaping as well as catching runners as mentioned above.
• Sharper Images (Minor) – this is pretty standard, obviously you’ll use this to inflict bleeds and do a large portion of your damage.
• Deceptive Evasion (X) – again, this is pretty standard fare; it will be your main source of clone generation, and therefore crucial to your DPS.

Chaos: 30 Points (III, X, XII)
• Metaphysical Rejuvination (Minor) – Free healing is nice, plus it combos well with Illusionary Membrane
• UPDATE: Debilitating Dissipation (V) – I previously used Master of Manipulation, and I still maintain that that is a great trait. However, after some testing, I think it’s safe to say that Debilitating Dissipation gives a lot of much-needed damage, especially in a multi-target scenario. Your clones have a 1/3 chance of applying bleeds when they get killed, which happens pretty frequently in WvW, especially if you are fighting a melee class. Likewise, they can apply bleeds when they are replaced when you’re at the clone cap, and they can apply bleeds when they explode after their target dies. It takes some practice, but if you can learn how to position your clones strategically throughout the battle, you can maximize the effectiveness of this trait.
• Illusionary Membrane (Minor) – Combos well with Runes of Lyssa, Metaphysical Rejuvination, and Prismatic Understanding. This trait will net you a large amount of protection uptime, even despite its cooldown.
• Chaotic Dampening (X) – Having a cooldown reduction on all staff skills is great, since both Chaos Armor and Chaos Storm (both of which are very useful) have pretty long cooldowns to begin with. Also, this reduces the cooldown of Phase Retreat too, dramatically increasing your ability to zip around the battlefield popping out clones.
• Chaotic Transference (Minor) – Extra condition damage is always good, right?
• Prismatic Understanding (XII) – Between Decoy, The Prestige, and Mass Invisibility, the amount of extra stealth you get is significant enough to make a difference. Also, with the 30% boon duration from the Chaos line, the boons you get are nothing to be sneezed at. If you’re in stealth for the full duration, the boons will refresh as you’re leaving stealth and you’ll have several seconds or protection, regeneration, or aegis to aid you as you charge back into battle.

Illusions: 20 Points (III, VII)
• Illusionists Celerity (Minor) – a must-have for pretty much all Mesmers. Decreases your Phase Retreat cooldown.
• UPDATE: Masterful Reflection (IV): After playing around with the build for a while, I realized that having a reflect available is significantly better than a little extra power. Often, you’ll use distortion when you want to stomp someone, and that is when you’ll be focused the most, making the reflection quite potent. Plus, if timed correctly it can really hurt a rifle warrior. (Thank you Zyk for this suggestion!)
• Illusionary Retribution (Minor) – Not amazing given how little you’ll actually be shattering and how weak confusion is now, but it’s better than nothing I guess.
• Illusionary Elasticity (VII) – This trait is a must-have. While this doesn’t affect your staff clones, even being able to increase your own number of staff bounces is amazing. You essentially get free damage or free boons with this trait. Just remember to stand within 600 range of your target so that the bouncing can occur (assuming there aren’t other enemies/allies close enough to your target for the bouncing).

Gear:
• Weapons: Rabid Stats
• Armor: Full Rabid
• Accessories (assuming Ascended): All condition/toughness/vitality, remaining with the exception of the backpiece, which should be rabid. Add infusions to get you up to the next percentile of crit chance, then slot for power.
• Runes: 6x Runes of Lyssa: The precision bonus is great for Sharper Images DPS and the condition duration is great now that it affects illusions. Gaining a random buff on heal is nice, and if you get protection or fury, the difference is great (with boon duration, you could get 13s of protection!). Also, the 6-piece bonus is great for turning Mass Invisibility into an escape button: you get aegis to block the attacks that are undoubtedly coming your way, you get swiftness to help you escape, you get regeneration to restore some health, and you get rid of any conditions that might be on you. Plus, since the rune bonus itself gives you protection, you get more guaranteed protection from Illusionary Membrane, and you are bound to get protection in the several times that Prismatic Understanding refreshed during Mass Invisibility. This means that you’ll likely come out of stealth with 10+ seconds of protection.
• Sigils of Earth on staff and sword: your main damage comes from conditions. Inflicting a 7-second (I think the sigil is affected by condition duration) bleed means an extra 900 damage every few seconds when you crit. This damage really adds up over the course of a fight.
• Sigil of Corruption on Torch (or other offhand): this is a must because having 250 extra condition damage will make both you and your clones deal substantially more damage. Try and get most of your kills with this weapon out so that you max out your stacks more quickly, and try your utmost not to get downed and lose them!

Consumables (note that cheaper versions can be used if so desired):
-Rare Veggie Pizza: The +40% condition duration is a necessity now that it affects clones. This food is one of the only ways to substantially stack condition duration, so you really ought to use it.
-UPDATE: Tuning Crystals: A tuning crystal can add ~200 condition damage onto your existing stats. This is a huge boost and should be capitalized on. Using this with the pizza and the sigil of corruption will get you up to 1850 condition damage. Assume that you have several stacks of might on you at all times due to staff bounces and you are sitting around 2000 condition damage. That, with 50% condition duration, is nothing to sneeze at.

That concludes this guide on my revised condition build! I hope you enjoyed it and I hope this build can work for you as well as it has been working for me! Please leave comments and suggestions below.

Also, I don’t currently have any screen recording software, but I may end up splurging and buying FRAPS or something so I can upload a video of this build in action.

Thanks again for reading!

Not bad buuut if I would to tweak it I would not go runes of lyssa and go with 3 krait 3 afflected for +30% duration to bleeds combined with food for +40%.

If bleeds are the main purpose of your build you would want to find a good balance between condition damage and duration. I have been messing around with a phantasm bleeding build I kind of whipped up with 9 seconds of bleeding from illusion bleeds with 53% chance to crit with phantasms have fury = more bleeds.

I think with your setup though you dont have to have fury on phantasms I’m running scepter pistol and duelist can stack 12 bleeds on his second attack since the first stack of bleeds havent worn off.

Just a suggestion though for runes I messed around in the mist and tried something with burning but its random proc so I didn’t think it be good to try and do anything with that so I see the benefit of lyssa there.

Yea like i said just a suggestion though you can go 2x krait, 2x afflicted, 2x mad king is another option or mix in sigil of agony for + duration or givers weapons. With bleeds duration > damage since like confusion it stacks intensity.

Palu.3405:

When I was testing this build, targets had nearly permanent burning on them, as well as a perpetual 10+ stacks of bleeding once the fight was in full swing. With pizza and the Sigil of Corruption, one ought to have enough condition damage to really make all those bleeds and burns hurt pretty quickly.

Not to rain on your parade but 10 stacks of bleeds is the usual with just me and three staff clones, and ‘near perma burning’ is a placebo, since nothing other than 100% duration will increase the burn duration past 1 second. I’m not sure why with 50% duration you get as many bleeds as a non condition-duration build though. No sigil of Earth?

All they had to do to fix confusion was nerf glamour builds by putting a target limit on it. Instead they made it tickle and said, hey, spam 1,1,1,1,1 and win. Lets not have people think while we fight :-/

Greetings, I’m trying out the same build but i’m using the focus offhand for obvious reasons. Its really fun to play as long as your enemies want to fight which leads me to the cons of this build. While this build really shines in static fights, I’m not able make it work when chasing people.

“Able to stop people from running relatively well compared to most condition builds.”

So how do you achieve this? Staff clones just tend to do nothing when chasing people, same for iWarlock. Chaosstorm will only hit like two times(given the enemy doesn’t dodge). As a result dmg is really poor when chasing people and its impossible to kill something this way. So you have to switch to Sword +X when chasing people. Swords #3 + the leap tend to fail a lot but even if I’m successful at rooting the enemy, the blurred frenzy + f1 shatter combo does poor damage and has a long cooldown.

As a result the easiest counter to this build is a) just run away or b) long range kiting. The build is really fun and strong but the chasing thing is annoying. Any way to improve this build so it is viable at chasing? Or am I doing something wrong?

Thanks for the replies so far everyone!

@oZii – I had considered using +bleed duration runes, but I feel that the Lyssa runes have too much to offer in terms of defensive utility. Being able to pop Mass Invisibility for a cleanse plus gaining tons of boons really helps out in a tight spot, plus getting random 13-second boons from the 4-piece set can be really good as well. Also, with my gear setup, the Lyssa runes provides a considerable amount of precision, which is necessarily for the application of bleeds. I could rework my gear so that I’d have the same amount of precision whilst using different runes, but then I’d sacrifice either power or vitality, which I don’t want to do. However, using bleed duration runes is certainly a viable option if you’re looking for a more offensive variant of this build!

@Kanto – I said 10+, meaning that ten was the minimum number one could expect. Oftentimes, the target will have many more than that, especially if you’re only facing one or two targets and you are able to utilize WoC bounces well. I simply stated 10+ as a baseline because I felt that even in suboptimal conditions where you aren’t applying as many bleeds as normal, with 1700 condition damage and burning alongside it, you will nonetheless be doing plenty of damage. Good call on the burning duration though – for some reason I was thinking that two 1.5s burns would equal three ticks, but I’m probably wrong on that. Finally, I do use sigils of earth on both the staff and the sword, as you can clearly see in the section of gear as well as in the skill calculator itself.

@QQing – I agree that ANet did not handle the confusion nerf well. However, at this point it is what it is and we have to make the most of a bad situation. This build is one such attempt at doing just that.

@Gorma – First, do keep in mind that you can stop people well compared to most other condition builds, but not as well as other classes can. With 50% condition duration, your immobilize from iLeap does last a bit longer. Also, you have blink to keep popping into range. Then, like you’re doing, you can throw down chaos storm to hopefully get a chill. However, there are two things you may not be doing. First, many classes use swiftness as a means of escape. If you steal this with Arcane Thievery (and give them any cripple/immobilize that they may have tried using on you), you can chase them down and literally just batter them down with the autoattack from the staff. Also, you can pop your elite to get a bit of swiftness from the Lyssa runes. This build isn’t going to be amazing at stopping people (I don’t think any Mesmer builds can truly boast that) but it gives you a lot of tools to beat down the enemy as they’re running. Also, it is true that iLeap does sometimes fail – sadly, sometimes you just can’t help that. You just have to make the most of it and accept that it usually will work.

Only two real points/questions, as I’ve been running around with a similar build that has a slightly more offensive focus…

1) Feedback deserves a slot or mention somewhere. There are a great number of cases where it outclasses Arcane Thievery, Decoy, and/or Blink.

To be fair, it only really outshines any of these in larger group situations, but it is important to be able to transition at least somewhat when it is necessary to do so.

2) Have you considered Debilitating Dissipation? It is now also properly affected by condition duration, and a combination of Mirror Images, Decoy, Deceptive Evasion, and proper use of Staff/Sword can allow you to very, very quickly hit the bleed cap in many situations.

Again, also fairly good in large group situations, as often when you shatter your illusions will end up running close enough to get dropped and apply the conditions without getting close enough to shatter properly.

Hi Fuschia, thanks for your reply. You are absolutely right that Feedback is a great skill and deserves mention. Since I mainly use the build for solo roaming, I didn’t find it to be terribly useful. However, when I’m running in a large group I almost always put Feedback on my bar, though what I swap it out for varies based on the situation. Part of being effective with any class is knowing when to swap out abilities for various situations, so I think you hit the nail on the head here.

As for Debilitating Dissipation: It is certainly a viable option. However, I prefer Master of Manipulation for two reasons. First, the reduced cooldowns on Blink and Arcane Thievery greatly increase my survivability, and I prefer to lean towards defense in my builds rather than offense. Second, I dislike that the clones have to be in melee range. While it’s true that sword clones will be in melee range, I find staff clones to be more reliable. A staff clone has a 2/3 chance to inflict bleeding or burning every cast plus a 43% chance for an additional bleed via Sharper Images, plus their attacks can bounce for more boons/conditions. Sword clones only have the Sharper Images bleeds available, and there is only a 1/3 chance of getting the bleeds from Debilitating Dissipation. As such, for sword clones to compete in terms of DPS, I feel that I would have to very quickly replace them, meaning burning through Decoy and my endurance bar for offensive purposes rather than defensive ones. Also, having to slot Mirror Images doesn’t appeal to me because it means I have to give up either condition removal/boon stealing, teleporting, or stealth, and I find that all three of those are necessities in my rather defensive style of play. A lot comes down to individual preferences in playstyle, and I can certainly see it working well in a more offensive variation of this build. Honestly, if I could put more points into the chaos tree I’d take Debilitating Dissipation in a heartbeat, but since I’m limited to 30 and there are so many great choices, I just can’t find room for it.

Hello Petal! Nice to see that you’re trying to make condition mez work after confusion was gutted. The undocumented fix that you mentioned to condition duration makes condi a bit more viable than I’d thought.

Just a few thoughts:

- I’m still not convinced that torch is the best option for a condition build. Prestige is a fantastic skill – I have no complaints now that it works all the time and isn’t a silly channel. However, using only one skill on your offhand feels like a bit of a waste. Sharper Images plus the iDuelist would stack a lot of bonus bleeds for condition “bursts”, and a weapon swap + Cry of Frustration + phase retreat and dodging would get your 3 clones up and running once more. Magic Bullet provides a very good stun as well, plus it can spread the love in outnumbered situations. The focus brings a lot of utility to the table as well – bleeds if you can immobilize people inside the phantasm’s range and utility from the pull, swiftness, and projectile block when iWarden is whirling. It depends how highly you rate the Prestige – fantastic ability, but is it worth two skills?

- +3% damage per clone could be swapped for something else. Even with carrion gear, you don’t have too much direct damage that will benefit. Reflect on distortion might be a good utility choice, or recharge on shatters when you go below 50% health can provide utility and offensive shatters at key moments.

- On the flipside, especially given how much direct damage there is in wuvwuv, 3% reduced damage power clone might be worth trading out reduced CDs on manipulations. Probably not for your build, since you run two manips, but it could be a good swap if you’re only running one of them in certain situations.

Hi Zyk! Glad you saw my little post here! One of the major impetuses for me to write up this guide was the chat we had Thursday where you told me that you had decided to stop using a condition build because of the patch, so I’m glad you got to read it.

Addressing your points:

First, I tried playing around with the pistol today, and I just couldn’t stand it. I felt very exposed without the extra stealth from The Prestige. Also, I found that I missed the AoE burn from The Prestige when fighting multiple targets. However, I’m very biased to the more defensive side of things. When using the pistol, I did notice that I could do more damage and Magic Bullet worked well as both an opener or as a way to stop fleeing opponents. Like I said in my first post regarding weapons, I like torch for its incredible defensive capabilities, but other weapons can be used if you want more damage or control. So, to answer your question – in my case The Prestige is worth two skills, but that may not be the case for others.

As for Compounding Power – I really don’t like any of the options for this slot. I picked this because when I figured that a little extra direct damage was pretty good for the sword, especially since I usually Mind Wrack after I switch from sword to staff to get rid of my sword clones. I’ve toyed with the idea of using Precise Wrack for more damage in that scenario (though I don’t know if it would be more of an increase than Compounding Power) or using the other traits you suggested. However, I don’t use Distortion enough that I feel either of them would be terribly effective. I will try playing around with more usage of Distortion to see if it makes a difference, but my gut feeling is telling me that small, frequent bonuses from Compounding Power will be more worthwhile than moderately-sized bonuses from Masterful Reflection.

Finally, for your last point – I think that if both Arcane Thievery and Blink aren’t being used, one should absolutely swap out Master of Manipulation for Illusionary Defense or Debilitating Dissipation. However, if they are both being used, the cooldown reduction is too great to pass up in my opinion.

Edit: After playing around with it for a while, I decided that I do like Masterful Reflection better, especially for 1 vs X scenarios. Build link has been updated to reflect this (no pun intended) and the traits section has been updated as well.

Palu.3405:

Good call on the burning duration though – for some reason I was thinking that two 1.5s burns would equal three ticks, but I’m probably wrong on that.

I still think so. The wiki says “The duration of conditions is rounded to nearest quarter second, which is reflected in the skill tooltip. The duration of conditions can be increased through Condition Duration attribute. It’s important to note that conditions only inflict damage over time in one second intervals and any fractional seconds are ignored.” This sounds like two 1.5s burns adding up would indeed tick three times.

Huh, in that case condition the +50% condition duration is even more valuable, and it means my initial assumption was indeed correct.

I jumped on my mesmer today and pretty much created the exact same thing. Don’t ever really play my mesmer so was just playing around with traits. Actually did pretty well. I feel odd playing a mesmer though.

made a condition mesmer last night using gsword/staff fury on phantsms for sharper immage (spvp). also condtion on clone death since gsword/staff + dodge roll creats a ton of clones. worked out better then expected.

Iruwen.3164:

Palu.3405:

Good call on the burning duration though – for some reason I was thinking that two 1.5s burns would equal three ticks, but I’m probably wrong on that.

I still think so. The wiki says “The duration of conditions is rounded to nearest quarter second, which is reflected in the skill tooltip. The duration of conditions can be increased through Condition Duration attribute. It’s important to note that conditions only inflict damage over time in one second intervals and any fractional seconds are ignored.” This sounds like two 1.5s burns adding up would indeed tick three times.

Pre-patch, I used to think you needed 100% condition duration to get 2 full ticks from your personal WoC which applies burning. However, the quarter rounding appears to work if you have 75% condition duration, as noted by a tester who posted findings on the wiki:

“I’ve tested with my mesmer. Winds of Chaos applies 1 second of burning (without duration modification). So I went ahead and bought a Rare Veggie Pizza (40%), 2 Superior Rune of the Mad King (10%), 2 Superior Rune of Lyssa (10%) and increased Domination step by step. At exactly 15 Domination (equals total of 75% condition duration) burning duration of 1.75s ticked 2 times. So I can confirm, that condition duration is rounded up to the next quarter. But keep in mind, if you accidentally inflict 2 burnings in a row, your full condition time will be 3.5s which will in this case internally be rounded up to 3.75 (assumed) and therefore it wil not tick 4 times, only 3 times. That means too, if you’re exact at a quarter, the calculation is rounded up to the next quarter. —213.196.136.71 01:46, 7 April 2013 (UTC)”

Post-patch, since condition duration is also working with clones, this same rule should apply to them, as well as the cumulative factor from other burning sources (such as the prestige).

skcamow: This is really useful information, thank you. In light of this info, I think having the +50 condition duration from the Lyssa Runes and pizza works well in this build then. This means that two burns stacked with one another will result in three ticks of damage. While this build could potentially stack condition duration up to 75% for a guaranteed two ticks on each individual burn, I think that since they so often overlap it wouldn’t be worth it as they’d still add up to three ticks from what you’ve described. Besides, having to give up Illusionary Elasticity to put points into Domination seems rather unfavorable, as does using Giver’s weapons or changing runes. I’m still pondering what more condition duration would mean in terms of bleed damage, but at this point +50% seems like a good benchmark.

What’s the “time to kill” on a build like this?

When I ran a confusion burst build the bursts were supplemented by bleeding from staff clones like this in this build. But I never killed anyone with just bleeds, in fact it would seem it would take ages to take someone down. The damage came from confusion, and the bleeds were just pressure on the enemy.

And what do you do when its 1v2 or 1v3? With multiple purges, and not much for condition removal in this build. Seems like a death sentence.

Anyone have some good video footage?

Hi Darx – I would rate the kill speed of this build as moderate; you’re not going to kill things faster than a full zerker shatter mesmer, but you have to power to kill an enemy fairly quickly. Say you can keep ten bleeds and burning on the target at all times. With the amount of condition damage in this build, that is1300 damage per second from the bleeds and 700 from the burn. Assuming you maintain the conditions on your target (which isn’t terribly difficult), your opponent is taking 2000 damage per second. 2000 DPS is a pretty reasonable number and will have the opponent down before long. It may seem strange to use bleeds instead of confusion, but consider the different: confusion relies on the opponent activating skills. Bleeding and burning continue to tick away regardless of what your opponent does.

Also, the amount of health and condition removal that your opponent has greatly influences your effectiveness. Against a thief I was dueling the other day, I was able to have him down in about 20 seconds when he was in his glass cannon build. However, that same thief, after respeccing to a full tank build with lots of vitality and condition removal was impossible to beat. We literally dueled for 40 minutes before calling it a draw.

I guess the best way to sum this up would be to say that your kill rate depends on the opponent. However, since specialized tanks that are loaded up with condition removal are pretty rare, most enemies can be killed relatively quickly.

As for fighting multiple opponents: 1v2 and 1v3 are both entirely doable with this build. In such scenarios, I will try and focus down the most threatening opponent first, or if they are all equally threatening, the one that will die the fastest. For instance, you’re probably going to want to kill the thief wailing on you before you address the bunker ele. For condition removal, I find that Arcane Thievery usually does the trick; with a cooldown of 32s, it can be used multiple times during a multi-foe engagement. However, you will run into trouble if you are facing multiple foes that heavily use conditions. In this case, your best bet is to use Arcane Thievery as a condition burst tool and try to wear one opponent down faster than he can wear you down. Sadly, a lack of reliable condition removal is a shortcoming of mesmers and you will find difficulty fighting multiple condition-based foes regardless of your setup.

Finally, video – This is currently finals week for me, but I intend to put up some video footage of this build as soon as I get a chance to record (and assuming my laptop permits). I’ve had several people in-game, both friend and foe alike, ask to see either youtube videos or a even a livestream of this build, so I will hopefully get those up as soon as possible.

I just tried the build, because I have all rabid gear, but without your runes and sigils I just used my own.

I was successfully dueling 1v3 on several occasions, and a one 1v4, I could always juggle multiple enemies but not always get the stomps, typically a group would come by and wipe me out.

What do you think about Melandru runes and -40% condition duration food. Yes, I read your entire post and I know you favor the +40 but a big part of this build is being slippery. Combined with -65% conditions you could become nearly uncatchable.

Here’s my confusion build with 100% less confusion, check it out! http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQFAMl4zSoJWjsuEwsgzCQLgsgyCA-TgAg2CnIoRVkDIzYSqs1A

Darx – Runes of Melandru could certainly be an option, as could the -40% condition duration food. However, you have to ask yourself if it is worth the loss of damage, and that is a matter of personal playstyle. While I like being tanky, I find that the veggie pizza and the precision from the Lyssa runes are necessary to inflict longer bleeds frequently to help take down foes more quickly. Being uncatchable certainly has its perks, but you need to find a balance between offense and defense that you’re comfortable playing with.

Arganthium.5638:

Here’s my confusion build with 100% less confusion, check it out! http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQFAMl4zSoJWjsuEwsgzCQLgsgyCA-TgAg2CnIoRVkDIzYSqs1A

It’s broken.

I finally have some video footage of this build. I put the link to the first video in the first post, and have three more videos (featuring some larger fights as well as some dueling) that I plan on uploading tomorrow/later today depending on your timezone.

You pasted the link twice

I don’t normally post on build threads but all these attempts at trying to be a condition Mesmer without confusion (and those with is even more lol) is just… sad. That video is definitely within top 5 of the most boring GW2 gameplay videos I’ve seen so far and against any good player the lack of burst is simply fatal.

I was a (real) condition Mesmer since I started playing GW2 but I knew where to draw the line after this kitten nerf. I buried my Mesmer (sigh… I really did love my condition Mesmer) and made a P/D condition Thief and trust me, P/D Thieves can stack more bleeds (and hit harder) than a staff Mesmer with 3 clones. Not to mention condition Engineers can stack burning/bleeding/poison/+ other non-damaging conditions much better also (and hit harder). Random bleeds/burns just isn’t good enough to be competitive without solid confusion bursts. Have fun killing noobs though.

Iruwen – Thanks, I fixed the link.

ExZee – Thank you for your feedback, but I’m not sure you fully grasp what this build is about. First of all, some people like the Mesmer and enjoy this particular playstyle enjoyable. I for one am content with having massive survivability, even if I don’t get kills as frequently as others might. I also think you are mistaken in concluding that this build can only kill “noobs.” What this build lacks in burst, it makes up for in survivability, and as such, with patience one can bring down most players. If you don’t have that patience or want more burst, then I absolutely think you should try something other than this build because this build is not for you.

Also, the second video is now uploaded, featuring a 1 vs Many scenario. I’ll post the other two later today.

ExZee.8109:

I don’t normally post on build threads but all these attempts at trying to be a condition Mesmer without confusion (and those with is even more lol) is just… sad. That video is definitely within top 5 of the most boring GW2 gameplay videos I’ve seen so far and against any good player the lack of burst is simply fatal.

I was a (real) condition Mesmer since I started playing GW2 but I knew where to draw the line after this kitten nerf. I buried my Mesmer (sigh… I really did love my condition Mesmer) and made a P/D condition Thief and trust me, P/D Thieves can stack more bleeds (and hit harder) than a staff Mesmer with 3 clones. Not to mention condition Engineers can stack burning/bleeding/poison/+ other non-damaging conditions much better also (and hit harder). Random bleeds/burns just isn’t good enough to be competitive without solid confusion bursts. Have fun killing noobs though.

If you do duration (which P/D is all about) a duelist and a mesmer or staff mesmer can stack more bleeds than a P/D thief. A P/D thief base bleed duration is 4 secs, staffs is 7 secs, sharper images trait is base 5 secs.

So 5 attacks with sneak attack (requiring stealth) and 3 auto attacks and you have 8 stacks of bleeds. At 60% chance to crit which is 80% with phantasm fury trait duelist will land 6-7 stacks on his own. If you go for 100% duration ala P/D thief style and happen to have phantasmal haste trait 1 duelist can stack 12-14 bleeds on its own thats not counting the mesmer because the first stack wont wear off before he fires again this is all with 1 duelist. I have a semi similar build I put together but I use pistol off hand as the main bleed stacking.

P/D thieves don’t have any burst at all. 0/0/30/20/20 or 20/0/30/20/0 neither have any burst the best burst you can get out of those is to take leeching venoms (venoms are lulz) Death blossom spam bleed build is not good at all also only noobs stand in caltrops.

How has this build been working in ZvZ?

oZii – Thanks for sharing your response regarding condition Mesmers compared to P/D thieves in a way that was much more articulate and precise than I could have done.

Nor – My computer can’t handle zergs (I get about 2 FPS in zergs) so I can’t give you much of an answer, sorry! However, if you’re in zergs you might consider using Signet of Inspiration and Feedback to provide more utility/boon support with this build since you won’t be killing things quite as quickly as your teammates.

Palu.3405:

ExZee – Thank you for your feedback, but I’m not sure you fully grasp what this build is about. First of all, some people like the Mesmer and enjoy this particular playstyle enjoyable. I for one am content with having massive survivability, even if I don’t get kills as frequently as others might. I also think you are mistaken in concluding that this build can only kill “noobs.” What this build lacks in burst, it makes up for in survivability, and as such, with patience one can bring down most players. If you don’t have that patience or want more burst, then I absolutely think you should try something other than this build because this build is not for you.

Also, the second video is now uploaded, featuring a 1 vs Many scenario. I’ll post the other two later today.

lol naw, I only know too much what this build is about, since it’s pretty much THE build I’ve mastered for over 7 months. It’s the poor man’s attempt at trying to do damage without heavy confusion pressure/burst using a variation of FLIMP’s build, and with patience you might just kill yourself out of boredom from how long a single fight is going to take. Even before the confusion nerf, 1v1 or even 1vX against good players took me forever (or was a complete stalemate) because 1) they were smart enough to not take confusion damage 2) they simply ran away to reset the fight when they were low hp, since the condition Mesmer has no stopping power and 3) they were using Lemongrass. The only way to kill a fellow condition Mesmer using similar builds was to be better at bursting confusion. Using the sword over the scepter was a huge sacrifice to damage, which any good condition Mesmer realized, and now it’s simply become the preferred choice since the scepter literally does no damage. The word “patience” you’re referring to here is the kind that would make a road rage driver into a Buddha, and I’ll just leave it at that to put your usage of the word into perspective.

As for the other guy, Lyssa runes on this build is essential because it’s the only other one of two condition removals that this build has. The other comes from utility and anyone worth posting in a build thread should know by now conditions are the condition Mesmer’s greatest weakness. A P/D Thief doesn’t make the same sacrifices for getting +bleed duration runes, so your “ala P/D thief style” comparison isn’t exactly fair nor comparable.

And the issue of burst was never compared to with a P/D Thief. The lack of specifically mentioned confusion burst was to compare the condition Mesmer to itself between pre and post nerf, not to compare it with another profession. Reading comprehension is your friend.

ExZee – The way you speak only strengthens my point that this build just simply isn’t for those who want fast kills. A so-claimed master of this build, you say that it takes forever to win fights or that they simply end in a stalemate. I would disagree, since I get kills at a pretty reasonable rate and pretty much never die unless I get jumped by a zerg. Regardless of the details though, my question to you is, what is wrong with taking longer to kill things? Sure, there will be stalemates, and sometimes your foe will escape. But you WILL get kills nonetheless. I love this build and think it works great for me. Who knows, maybe I’m Buddha, but I think you are pretty far off-base if you are trying to argue that this build is terrible and shouldn’t be used.

What you are saying is that you dislike this particular build and playstyle. Grats, you have an opinion.

This type of build is what I use in sPvP (hardly touch WvW since it is such a large clusterkitten of zergs throwing themselves back and forth plus the whole ‘eternal’ in Eternal Battle is fitting since it never finds closure such as a match ending). Rabid gear, mainly Staff, mostly getting clones out with the occasional shattering.

Conditions are my weak point, but even in Rabid gear things die very fast once I have three clones out. Bonus? No more dying versus bursty thieves. Most things aren’t able to survive for very long with the exception of Guardians who cleanse, cleanse, cleanse, heal, cleanse, and then everything is on CD and they die.

Things I can’t kill: bunker eles (though they can’t kill me either), (some) bunker engineers.

Thank you for this, and +1 for the music you chose in the videos

the issue about becoming a bunker is you make everyone else into a bunker also. most bunker specs end up as a method to stall until help arrives. or people that yell in map
“ha ha ha you cant kill me, stop trying” but they have 0 kills the whole match.

most specs like this usually go for retaliation stacking or some method of killing.. it seems like your main source of damage is staff and your playstyle = if i didnt die then thats kinda a win.

ExZee.8109:

Palu.3405:

ExZee – Thank you for your feedback, but I’m not sure you fully grasp what this build is about. First of all, some people like the Mesmer and enjoy this particular playstyle enjoyable. I for one am content with having massive survivability, even if I don’t get kills as frequently as others might. I also think you are mistaken in concluding that this build can only kill “noobs.” What this build lacks in burst, it makes up for in survivability, and as such, with patience one can bring down most players. If you don’t have that patience or want more burst, then I absolutely think you should try something other than this build because this build is not for you.

Also, the second video is now uploaded, featuring a 1 vs Many scenario. I’ll post the other two later today.

lol naw, I only know too much what this build is about, since it’s pretty much THE build I’ve mastered for over 7 months. It’s the poor man’s attempt at trying to do damage without heavy confusion pressure/burst using a variation of FLIMP’s build, and with patience you might just kill yourself out of boredom from how long a single fight is going to take. Even before the confusion nerf, 1v1 or even 1vX against good players took me forever (or was a complete stalemate) because 1) they were smart enough to not take confusion damage 2) they simply ran away to reset the fight when they were low hp, since the condition Mesmer has no stopping power and 3) they were using Lemongrass. The only way to kill a fellow condition Mesmer using similar builds was to be better at bursting confusion. Using the sword over the scepter was a huge sacrifice to damage, which any good condition Mesmer realized, and now it’s simply become the preferred choice since the scepter literally does no damage. The word “patience” you’re referring to here is the kind that would make a road rage driver into a Buddha, and I’ll just leave it at that to put your usage of the word into perspective.

As for the other guy, Lyssa runes on this build is essential because it’s the only other one of two condition removals that this build has. The other comes from utility and anyone worth posting in a build thread should know by now conditions are the condition Mesmer’s greatest weakness. A P/D Thief doesn’t make the same sacrifices for getting +bleed duration runes, so your “ala P/D thief style” comparison isn’t exactly fair nor comparable.

And the issue of burst was never compared to with a P/D Thief. The lack of specifically mentioned confusion burst was to compare the condition Mesmer to itself between pre and post nerf, not to compare it with another profession. Reading comprehension is your friend.

Now you jumping to condition removal your original post states that if you want to do bleeds go P/D and they stack more bleeds than a bleed mesmer can which they cannot. There is no sacrifice at all you should really read up on your builds a bit more.

If you go the popular lets say wild bill build P/D condi. Your 20 points into Deadly arts you run your krait, afflicted etc, there is your condition duration. You do the same on a mesmer the reason thieves don’t give up much is because your 10 point shadow art trait. The best passive a mesmer has for condi removal is 30 points in inspiration.

No matter what the build is nothing a mesmer can do can match a thieves passive condition removal it is one of the best in the game. Not all classes are identical.

Your original suggestion was that if you want to do bleeds on a mesmer P/D thieves do it better which isnt the case there just want a reason before to actually go bleeds as a mesmer when confusion was 100% better.

Its like trying to make a condition build for a thief that focuses poison when bleeds are 100% better. If they nerfed bleeds or P/D reduced duration to 2 secs or something then thieves would have to come up with something else. This is essentially something else.

not trying to make fun of you and i did watch the videos. my main point is that the spec isnt actually helping your game play. you seem to be able to use your defensive skills correctly and with a normal spec you would have more then likely won the last fight in wvw… some of those guys were tunnelvisioning and didnt even use thier standard heals.

seeing your playstyle and the fact that you never go out of staff unless you are in danger and want to invis. i think you could benefit by chaning one of your traits to condition on clone death maybe up your damage a little.

alot of your spec seems to be based around running if you start to lose. you arent even using stealth that much but you are preparing to have to.

this is a decent bunker build for spvp, not so much for wvw.

kovah – Thanks! Glad you liked the music and the videos! I was getting sick of every single GW2 video having Linkin Park something-or-other.

Zaxon – Thank you for the feedback. I think that normally you would be right about this being a “you can’t kill me, but I can’t kill you” scenario. I used to run a similar build when GW2 was first released, but then switched to a confusion shatter build for more damage. However, with the patch, everything changed. Confusion got nerfed into the ground in WvW but at the same time, there was a beam of hope in the fact that condition duration was fixed to apply to clones. As such, I think that a pure bleed/burn build has the potential to be viable now.

As for your suggested revisions to my build – I think you are spot on with them. I too have been noticing that I really use my sword as a utility pivot more than anything else. I don’t use it enough to have the power investment be worth it. As such, I’m going to try switching out the carrion pieces for rabid to get more precision (more bleeds) and using Tuning Crystals instead of Sharpening Stones. After trying that I will post back here with my success. Hopefully it will lead to a bit faster kill rate.

Finally, could you explain what you mean by “you arent even using stealth that much but you are preparing to have to?” I use my stealth skills all the time and am not really sure what you mean.

about the stealth… i was just saying that in the middle of a fight you stick to staff 90 percent of the time and only use stealth if you get in trouble. i know the invis trait seems important but you arent using torch skills on cooldown/ you dont have veil of invis and you seem sturdy enough that you need to balance out your ability to kill with your ability to live.

you also never ever shatter and on top of that have dodge roll clones.. not saying you should shatter.. just saying that your clones are dieing anyway and not being shatterd… getting extra conditons out of them may be worth the trade since things dieing faster also = more survivability. every person you kill is less damage you take and you seemed to have chances to take out a lower hp character but didnt have the finishing power.

manipulation traits = 2x defensive traits.
invis = defensive.
staff = defensive
torch = when you usually switch to it is defensive.

just looking for a way you can get the finishes off when you get someone under pressure.. in the wvw fight you got them low but not down.. and even after they go down you still need to stomp under pressure so you need a good amount of added damage from what you have now.

Thanks for that explanation zaxon. I think you make a good point and will definitely try out Debilitating Dissipation when I get a chance. I too have noticed that I often lack finishing power so it may well be that the Debilitating Dissipation bleeds will add up over time.

Edit: Also uploaded two more videos.

Hi Palu,

First let me say thanks as I had abandoned my Mesmer after the patch but now with your guide I will go back and play again to see if it is fun again!

Please help me out translate your build into the following builder and tell me what you think…thanks: (I ended up with 13xx Condition Damage so not sure why)

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/mesmer/?4.0|6.1h.h16|c.1h.h16.f.1h.h5|1b.7i.1b.7i.1b.7i.1b.7i.1b.7i.1b.7i|1b.9b.1h.9b.1h.9b.1b.9b.1b.9b.1b.9b|0.k1a.u3ac.0.k47|30.1|31.3d.3c.34.3o|e

Hi Cempa, thanks for giving my build a try.

To answer your question, a majority of condition damage comes from the sigil of corruption,which isn’t considered in the skill builder. The Sigil of Corruption will add 250 condition damage on its own. That is a large boost and will get you to about 1650 condition damage using ascended gear like I have in my build. If you use a Master Tuning Crystal (a revision to the build I’m considering based on feedback I’ve received as well as my own personal analysis) you can get up to about 1850 condition damage. Also, keep in mind that due to staff bounces, you will have about four stacks of might up at all times, which is an additional 100 condition damage or so.

Finally, my build assumes the use of ascended gear while what you linked only has exotic gear. This will result in the difference of a couple dozen points, but don’t worry; this build can be played just as effectively with exotic gear, the difference between exotic and ascended is so small that it barely matters.

Hope that cleared things up! Let me know if there’s anything else I can answer!

Hey, two questions

- Is Illusions III “Compounding Power” viable or does the 3% damage apply to direct damage only? If it were for condition damage too, a 9% increase wouldn’t be too bad instead of the Reflection on Distortion one !

-What’s the balance between Rabid and Carrion gear? Right now I’m full Rabid, and as you said I think the weapons are better being Rabid stats. What about the trinkets?

Thanks

I leveled Mesmer specifically for condition build in WvW and since the nerf it hasn’t really worked as well as before no matter how I tweak it, and so I have gone back to Shatter. Then I just defaulted back to my Guardian. I’ll give this a try but the confusion change really hit Mesmer incredibly hard.

Actually, over the last few days I haven’t even bothered to log on. Pretty annoyed at all the heavy handed changes to the point where I’d rather play Skyrim or read a book.

Midnightjade.3520:

I leveled Mesmer specifically for condition build in WvW and since the nerf it hasn’t really worked as well as before no matter how I tweak it, and so I have gone back to Shatter. Then I just defaulted back to my Guardian. I’ll give this a try but the confusion change really hit Mesmer incredibly hard.

Actually, over the last few days I haven’t even bothered to log on. Pretty annoyed at all the heavy handed changes to the point where I’d rather play Skyrim or read a book.

yeah i was not motivated to play either, thank god i am in a 85 percent mesmer guild and they all lifted me up a little.this confusion double nerf (50 percent +blinding befuddlement)really destroyed a lot for me.I always liked applying conditions, but necro is just not me at all….at least mesmer has many traits to play with, but my glam build was my favorite and i miss it and wish anet would change it back.

@ExZee: I understan your anger, believe i was there, but don’t be so harsh on the op that is trying to make use of the rabid gear…i still have mine too and am using it as i cannot just transmute everything and salvage it after working so hard for it. OP is trying to make the best out of this kittened up nerf!

selan.8354:

yeah i was not motivated to play either, thank god i am in a 85 percent mesmer guild and they all lifted me up a little.this confusion double nerf (50 percent +blinding befuddlement)really destroyed a lot for me.I always liked applying conditions, but necro is just not me at all….at least mesmer has many traits to play with, but my glam build was my favorite and i miss it and wish anet would change it back.

@ExZee: I understan your anger, believe i was there, but don’t be so harsh on the op that is trying to make use of the rabid gear…i still have mine too and am using it as i cannot just transmute everything and salvage it after working so hard for it. OP is trying to make the best out of this kittened up nerf!

I still have my condition gear in bank as well, had to replace everything to go back to shatter, overdid it and made too much zerker gear and had to replace that again with knights. And all the runes. Tried a GS/staff spec, that didn’t work so I had to rejig it all AGAIN. FInally got a decent build going in terms of effect but it is very one dimensional.

All this cost like 50 gold and it was only that cheap because I made almost all of it myself (have all crafts at 400). So yeah, I too am very annoyed by the changes to the point where now I don’t even log in. This from a player with 2x 80 in full exotic/ascended and a legendary. The devs made a big mistake and need to fix it somehow asap. No mesmers in WvW anymore – all gone.

I do appreciate the OP’s attempt to put together a replacement though – will try this. And sorry for the rant.

I like the build.

Well-done with playing it as well. It’s slightly different from my own similar build by 15 points. You have elasticity and I don’t (though I miss it so much!)

If anyone was paying attention to your server’s map/team chat … wow.