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Posted by: Naouvi.2081

Naouvi.2081

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Posted by: Xelnok.2397

Xelnok.2397

Alright, first of all stability > magic bullet, it almost seemed like you would save that attack until they had stability up.

Secondly, good duels; but I’m pretty sure it is widely accepted that mesmer should never lose a 1v1 against almost anyone which is why the 1vx fights are more impressive.

(I was thinking about making a video of just my 1v1s but almost all battles are so lopsided I figured it wouldn’t be very entertaining to those watching)

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Posted by: ArmageddonAsh.6430

ArmageddonAsh.6430

I think some classes can and do beat Mesmer in 1Vs1 Condition Necro, PermaStealth thief, Condi Engi for example. I am sure there are other builds that CAN beat Mesmer.

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Posted by: Pyroatheist.9031

Pyroatheist.9031

@ArmageddonAsh: A properly specced and played mesmer will not lose a 1v1.

@Naouvi: First and foremost: don’t speed up your video. It’s only 4 minutes long you don’t need to speed it up. Mesmer gameplay is fast enough as is, speeding it up just makes it very difficult to follow.

As Xelnok said, you do have a really bad habit of using magic bullet into stability. Don’t do that. One other thing I noticed is that sometimes you’ll use your heal even when you’re either almost full or at full hp. Try to avoid doing that.

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Posted by: ArmageddonAsh.6430

ArmageddonAsh.6430

@ArmageddonAsh: A properly specced and played mesmer will not lose a 1v1.

Our condition removal is weak to say the least, i have beaten Mesmers plenty of times 1 Vs 1 on a few characters – Mesmer, Ele, Necro. Once you know the class they become much less of an issue.

They are NOT immune to defeat 1 Vs 1. A well played and specced Necro CAN beat a well played and spec-ed Mesmer as well.

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Posted by: Pyroatheist.9031

Pyroatheist.9031

Our condition removal is weak to say the least

It’s only weak if you don’t spec for it. Specced for it, mesmers have the strongest condition removal in the game.

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Posted by: ArmageddonAsh.6430

ArmageddonAsh.6430

Our condition removal is weak to say the least

It’s only weak if you don’t spec for it. Specced for it, mesmers have the strongest condition removal in the game.

and the cost?
I would say Necro is still better, they use theres for so much more, healing, sending to targets

I would be interested in this Condition removal build, the heal trait and the focus(iirc) traits are the ones i remember, think there is one for shatters as well????

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Posted by: blenheim.6489

blenheim.6489

Arcane Thievery, Null Field, Torch trait, just to name a few.

Gawdwyn

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Posted by: ArmageddonAsh.6430

ArmageddonAsh.6430

Arcane Thievery, Null Field, Torch trait, just to name a few.

So pretty much having to go FULL condition removal, using traits, weapons and Utilities….

Yeah because that is okay. That is pretty bad to get the “best” (IMO Necro still is) that we have to lose so much to gain it.

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Posted by: Xelnok.2397

Xelnok.2397

Pretty much only utilities, I played last night in a 1v1 server, and maybe I was playing scrubs but I went 4/5 against various necros without too much difficulty.

I probably could have used idisenchanter and done even better

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Posted by: ArmageddonAsh.6430

ArmageddonAsh.6430

Pretty much only utilities, I played last night in a 1v1 server, and maybe I was playing scrubs but I went 4/5 against various necros without too much difficulty.

I probably could have used idisenchanter and done even better

I would guess they were scrubs loving the fact that suddenly Conditionmancers are “overpowered” its pretty much like it for ANY class – FoTM.

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Posted by: Pyroatheist.9031

Pyroatheist.9031

The cost is 2 utilities and a major adept trait. You take condition removal mantra, mantra heal, and pDisenchanter, along with mender’s purity. You are now very heavily specced towards condition removal. However, against strong condition classes, you don’t need those slots for anything more important than strong condition removal.

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Posted by: ArmageddonAsh.6430

ArmageddonAsh.6430

The cost is 2 utilities and a major adept trait. You take condition removal mantra, mantra heal, and pDisenchanter, along with mender’s purity. You are now very heavily specced towards condition removal. However, against strong condition classes, you don’t need those slots for anything more important than strong condition removal.

and with all that cost, can you beat said Conditionmancer?

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Posted by: Aylaine.1036

Aylaine.1036

I think some classes can and do beat Mesmer in 1Vs1 Condition Necro, PermaStealth thief, Condi Engi for example. I am sure there are other builds that CAN beat Mesmer.

A lot of specs of other classes can beat mesmers. Though out of this list, I lose to necros the most (really depends how good they are) I can hang with perma thieves and engis, being a condi mesmer myself. BM Condi Rangers and trap rangers can get me too if I don’t play right.

Also, depending on the spec, you don’t need all that condi removal to beat a necro. If anything, you’d be better going 2 condi utilities and 1 stunbreak to get out of fear. iDis and Null Field perhaps, as Arcane Thievery can bug out sometimes in my experience. iDis is godly though.

(edited by Aylaine.1036)

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Posted by: ArmageddonAsh.6430

ArmageddonAsh.6430

A lot of specs of other classes can beat mesmers. Though out of this list, I lose to necros the most (really depends how good they are) I can hang with perma thieves and engis, being a condi mesmer myself. BM Condi Rangers and trap rangers can get me too if I don’t play right.

Also, depending on the spec, you don’t need all that condi removal to beat a necro. If anything, you’d be better going 2 condi utilities and 1 stunbreak to get out of fear. iDis and Null Field perhaps, as Arcane Thievery can bug out sometimes in my experience. iDis is godly though.

Thats what i was saying to the person saying a Mesmer shouldnt lose a 1 Vs 1, seems to think they are untouchable, we all know this isnt the case.

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Posted by: Ryuujin.8236

Ryuujin.8236

The cost is 2 utilities and a major adept trait. You take condition removal mantra, mantra heal, and pDisenchanter, along with mender’s purity. You are now very heavily specced towards condition removal. However, against strong condition classes, you don’t need those slots for anything more important than strong condition removal.

and with all that cost, can you beat said Conditionmancer?

Yes.

At least, I’ve done it in sPvP.

Now, whether an equally skilled mesmer, fighting an equally skilled condinecro could is another question. I think they probably could, restomantras combined with stealths are the ultimate clutch/heal combo.

Pop a cloak, rotate mantras – bam, health is back up and you have 2 condition removals to play with.

The Ashwalker – Ranger
Garnished Toast

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Posted by: ArmageddonAsh.6430

ArmageddonAsh.6430

Yes.

At least, I’ve done it in sPvP.

Now, whether an equally skilled mesmer, fighting an equally skilled condinecro could is another question. I think they probably could, restomantras combined with stealths are the ultimate clutch/heal combo.

Pop a cloak, rotate mantras – bam, health is back up and you have 2 condition removals to play with.

I find the Mantra Heal to be very weak. Sure you get 2 heals but its the fact that it needs to be traited for it to be really worthwhile.

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Posted by: Naouvi.2081

Naouvi.2081

Thank you guys for the feedback, magic bullet happens to kitten with me in my videos.
Heal when am nearly full sometimes on the start of the fight very good point why? Because its just me Naoudei.
I’m still learning the class Mesmer I do mistakes yes I guess practice makes prefect?
I still got 1 dislike on YouTube I guess its just haters but oh well I will keep doing my videos and hope you guys liked it see you guys on the next video peace.

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Posted by: Pyroatheist.9031

Pyroatheist.9031

@ArmageddonAsh: Yes, I can easily beat condition necros when I slot those skills.

@Arale and ArmageddonAsh: A well played mesmer should not lose a 1v1, regardless of the class or build facing it. That is simply a fact. You may believe it not to be the case, but it is.

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Posted by: Simonoly.4352

Simonoly.4352

Hi Naovi. Nice vid.

Link to your build? Always nice to have a build to match up with a gameplay vid.

Gandara

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Posted by: ArmageddonAsh.6430

ArmageddonAsh.6430

@Arale and ArmageddonAsh: A well played mesmer should not lose a 1v1, regardless of the class or build facing it. That is simply a fact. You may believe it not to be the case, but it is.

Again i totally disagree. Mesmer is NOT powerful enough to be able to beat any spec, build of any class. Sure they have the potential to do well, i have seen plenty of Mesmers lose 1 Vs 1, does that make them bad? No, it just means they were beat.

Saying that a Mesmer shouldn’t lose a 1Vs1 in my opinion is nothing more then opinion. Sure the class overall is solid but a Evenly geared/skilled player from another class has just as much of a chance of beating a Mesmer as the Mesmer has of winning.

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Posted by: Pyroatheist.9031

Pyroatheist.9031

@Arale and ArmageddonAsh: A well played mesmer should not lose a 1v1, regardless of the class or build facing it. That is simply a fact. You may believe it not to be the case, but it is.

Again i totally disagree. Mesmer is NOT powerful enough to be able to beat any spec, build of any class. Sure they have the potential to do well, i have seen plenty of Mesmers lose 1 Vs 1, does that make them bad? No, it just means they were beat.

Saying that a Mesmer shouldn’t lose a 1Vs1 in my opinion is nothing more then opinion. Sure the class overall is solid but a Evenly geared/skilled player from another class has just as much of a chance of beating a Mesmer as the Mesmer has of winning.

As you may or may not be aware, I’m fully willing to back up my statements. Find someone willing to try to beat me, pm me in game, and I’ll show you. Until then, put up or shut up.

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Posted by: Aylaine.1036

Aylaine.1036

@ArmageddonAsh: Yes, I can easily beat condition necros when I slot those skills.

@Arale and ArmageddonAsh: A well played mesmer should not lose a 1v1, regardless of the class or build facing it. That is simply a fact. You may believe it not to be the case, but it is.

As much as I like reading your posts, this is an opinion, not a fact. Mesmers lose in 1v1’s, even good ones.

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Posted by: ArmageddonAsh.6430

ArmageddonAsh.6430

As you may or may not be aware, I’m fully willing to back up my statements. Find someone willing to try to beat me, pm me in game, and I’ll show you. Until then, put up or shut up.

I know i am not the best player in the world. You just come across VERY arrogant. I will state again, everything you have said is based on OPINION. Mesmer is NOT the master of all 1 Vs 1 battles when its an even fight (ie – even gear level, even skill level)

Sure they can win fights, but they can also lose fights – again does that mean the Mesmer is “bad”?

What rank are you in S/TPvP?

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Posted by: Lafiel.9372

Lafiel.9372

lol, there is no single class in the game that says you’ll win in a 1v1 situation regardless if you’re good or speced right as you say. For example, mesmers are naturally disadvantaged when it comes with fighting stealth classes. This is because a lot of their skills revolve around having an actual target. So thieves who can go in and out of stealth quickly can kill a mesmer easily just because there is a lot of in between time that you can do almost nothing about. Of course, there are small ways in which you can counter but they all require good placement and a bit of luck.

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Posted by: ArmageddonAsh.6430

ArmageddonAsh.6430

lol, there is no single class in the game that says you’ll win in a 1v1 situation regardless if you’re good or speced right as you say. For example, mesmers are naturally disadvantaged when it comes with fighting stealth classes. This is because a lot of their skills revolve around having an actual target. So thieves who can go in and out of stealth quickly can kill a mesmer easily just because there is a lot of in between time that you can do almost nothing about. Of course, there are small ways in which you can counter but they all require good placement and a bit of luck.

This. Saying you can beat anyone of any spec, build or class just makes youcome off as VERY arrogant.

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Posted by: Pyroatheist.9031

Pyroatheist.9031

@Lafiel: Mesmers are not weak at all against stealth classes (thieves? how many other stealth classes are there?). You can summon phantasms and whatnot as the thief stealths, and the cast will finish even if you have no target. Additionally, mesmer has a lot of active defense that allows you to heavily punish thief stealth attacks.

@ArmageddonAsh: Not sure, maybe 22 or so?

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Posted by: Xelnok.2397

Xelnok.2397

Going from personal experience in the past 1.5 weeks since i created my new build i have won about 65 out of 70 1v1s between wvw and spvp.

The only classes out of all those duels that beat me was a 1. condition warrior (i beat him once as well, he was just crazy good at his class, never seen any other warriors come close to his ability. 2. Some crazy minion necro build with really high defense. 3+4+5 More defensive staff mesmers (which is really the only counter to my build i have found).

I have never lost to a thief with this build in WvW, or sPvP, beit a condition thief, backstab thief, with some of the wvw thieves jumping me having 25 bloodlust stacks to boot.

Condition classes have the best chance against us, but honestly they have to play perfectly to win, and i have not come against that many people that have mastered their class well enough to beat out.

Moral of the story: Mesmer is an insanely good dueling class, throw in more than one opponent and things change completely. Either way Mesmer is pretty much guaranteed to get nerfed as has always been the case with Anet every patch (but conditionmancer necroes are probably going to get nerfed even harder so w/e)

My build is a 10/30/30/0/0 phantasm stealth hybrid btw

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Posted by: takatsu.9416

takatsu.9416

with the mesmer, no thief has been able to take me down lately after i’ve figured out my build post-patch, nor any warrior, in 1v1. I lost once to a regen tank ranger because i thought i could burst him down lol mistake on my part, i used too many CD. And engineers are no prob for me. Some necros and d/d eles sometimes are a little challenging, but they are quite even fights. I don’t run condition removal unfortunately, except the condition remove on heal trait, or it could be a lot easier

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Posted by: Ross Biddle.2367

Ross Biddle.2367

The cost is 2 utilities and a major adept trait. You take condition removal mantra, mantra heal, and pDisenchanter, along with mender’s purity. You are now very heavily specced towards condition removal. However, against strong condition classes, you don’t need those slots for anything more important than strong condition removal.

and with all that cost, can you beat said Conditionmancer?

My Poisoned Apples build can beat the best Conditionmancer build out there. It’s a condition build with heaps of condition removal. From what Ive seen thus far it can beat anything. Including condition engie.

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Posted by: Ross Biddle.2367

Ross Biddle.2367

@Arale and ArmageddonAsh: A well played mesmer should not lose a 1v1, regardless of the class or build facing it. That is simply a fact. You may believe it not to be the case, but it is.

Again i totally disagree. Mesmer is NOT powerful enough to be able to beat any spec, build of any class. Sure they have the potential to do well, i have seen plenty of Mesmers lose 1 Vs 1, does that make them bad? No, it just means they were beat.

Saying that a Mesmer shouldn’t lose a 1Vs1 in my opinion is nothing more then opinion. Sure the class overall is solid but a Evenly geared/skilled player from another class has just as much of a chance of beating a Mesmer as the Mesmer has of winning.

As you may or may not be aware, I’m fully willing to back up my statements. Find someone willing to try to beat me, pm me in game, and I’ll show you. Until then, put up or shut up.

Yeah. PROVE Pyroatheists claims. Don’t you know how the burden of proof works?

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Posted by: ArmageddonAsh.6430

ArmageddonAsh.6430

The cost is 2 utilities and a major adept trait. You take condition removal mantra, mantra heal, and pDisenchanter, along with mender’s purity. You are now very heavily specced towards condition removal. However, against strong condition classes, you don’t need those slots for anything more important than strong condition removal.

and with all that cost, can you beat said Conditionmancer?

My Poisoned Apples build can beat the best Conditionmancer build out there. It’s a condition build with heaps of condition removal. From what Ive seen thus far it can beat anything. Including condition engie.

“best” build, half that comes down to the player. You can have the “best” build that is used by thousands of people and dominate, in the hands of a newbie then all of that goes out of the window.

He was stating that he could beat ANY player, ANY build of ANY class. This i totally agree with. Simply for out of our hands situations. Sure you CAN beat them – will you beat them EVERY time? Can you beat ALL the pro players that do tournies?

Why not take your build into that $10,000 comp? I mean if these builds are SO strong then you will walk it surely…

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Posted by: Pyroatheist.9031

Pyroatheist.9031

@ArmageddonAsh: 1v1 builds are not usually suitable for team composition. This is a well known fact. Your question was with regards to a 1v1.

However, you do bring up a good point, that of player skill. An adequately skilled warrior could beat any other class played by someone with little skill, and the reverse is certainly true for every class. How do you determine a matchup of equal skill? Not easily done, certainly.

My points, however, are drawn from the fact that with very few exceptions, every mesmer build can be modified to directly counter almost every single class build on the spot. You can take more stunbreaks, or more active defense, or reflects, or more stealth, or condition removal. The massive range of utility that mesmers have easy access to also allow them to be easily tuned to counter an opponent.

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Posted by: ArmageddonAsh.6430

ArmageddonAsh.6430

@ArmageddonAsh: 1v1 builds are not usually suitable for team composition. This is a well known fact. Your question was with regards to a 1v1.

However, you do bring up a good point, that of player skill. An adequately skilled warrior could beat any other class played by someone with little skill, and the reverse is certainly true for every class. How do you determine a matchup of equal skill? Not easily done, certainly.

My points, however, are drawn from the fact that with very few exceptions, every mesmer build can be modified to directly counter almost every single class build on the spot. You can take more stunbreaks, or more active defense, or reflects, or more stealth, or condition removal. The massive range of utility that mesmers have easy access to also allow them to be easily tuned to counter an opponent.

That make be the case that it is versatile, However other builds ca be made to make fighting a Mesmer easier. If they dont have a Stealth then “Target” function is pretty much like a free skill, not that you need any help telling the mesmer most of the time.

Most builds can be adjusted quite well, except Warriors they just seem to suck no matter what they do :/

All i was trying to say – an equally skilled player of any class CAN win in a 1 Vs 1 (ignoring Warriors, coz no offense those that play them – they pretty much suck) against another equally skilled player of another class, you have to take into account to many variables to be able to say 100% that you could beat ANYONE of any class.

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Posted by: Pyroatheist.9031

Pyroatheist.9031

@ArmageddonAsh: I would still dispute that an equally skilled player of any class could win a 1v1 against any other class. Part of the problem here is that equal skill level doesn’t mean the same at every level of skill. Some classes are much easier to play, and so lower equal skill would favor them, while higher equal skill would favor others.

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Posted by: ArmageddonAsh.6430

ArmageddonAsh.6430

@ArmageddonAsh: I would still dispute that an equally skilled player of any class could win a 1v1 against any other class. Part of the problem here is that equal skill level doesn’t mean the same at every level of skill. Some classes are much easier to play, and so lower equal skill would favor them, while higher equal skill would favor others.

That i agree with, You saying that Mesmers shouldnt lose ANY 1 Vs 1 i dont agree with.

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Posted by: takatsu.9416

takatsu.9416

Yeah it’s almost impossible to compare skill levels lol, skill varies and it’s not a static point of reference. There’s always better or worse players. However, you can look at the entire class as a whole, and like you said, even in the hands of a newbie, the entire average or overview of the class. For example, one can say that thieves on average, with the huge amount of perma stealth or wvw builds out there, you can argue that thieves as a class in general can get away from situations easier than other classes. There has been so many instances and most players when asked which class they don’t like to fight, they will cite thieves as one. It is a common one to state. It’s the fact that in wvw even with a group of 10 chasing after a thief, a lot of times, they can still get away, super good player or not. So that being the case, we can say thieves have great escape ability and people call them OP. I would say maybe OP in getting away. Which is the concept of the class in any case.

In this case, we’re arguing the mesmer is a fantastic dueling class, and can be capable of winning most fights 1v1. Overview, on average, on players of varying skill levels, mesmers are cited as a class people don’t like to fight as well. Perhaps we can say if someone is able to actually play mesmer all the way to level 80, bring it to wvw or whatever, the skill level for playing a mesmer is higher, and therefore, the class in general does well. We also have a variety of builds as well and we see many players with videos and lots of experience playing as a zerker phantasm, or heavy shatter build, or tanky condition build, all of them who do very well, regardless of the build. I’m not too sure of opinions from other classes, because being a mesmer I hear more from mesmers than from other people. However, in my own fights, the times I’ve lost I know exactly what mistake I made, and the class in general is a powerful 1v1 class.

I might not say the same for a ranger as a class overall for example. I have a ranger as well, a good regen build or something might work well, but it is by no means guaranteed capability to win all fights, i’ve seen many go down. The ranger has a huge spectrum, the very very good player could do very well and win all their fights. However, other builds and skill levels won’t and it can be quite a fragile class to play.

So what we can say is that the mesmer class in general is extremely good for 1v1 fights. A good player might be able to win most of their fights. Although it is an exaggeration that mesmers shouldn’t lose ANY 1v1, for example for myself, i lose when there was human error, but we can say we strive for that, because the mesmer is a very capable class

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Posted by: Nuka Cola.8520

Nuka Cola.8520

why were you even dueling a warrior on a mez? Its impossible to lose…

Fact: every Thief tells you to “l2p” when the subject is to nerf stealth.

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Posted by: ArmageddonAsh.6430

ArmageddonAsh.6430

why were you even dueling a warrior on a mez? Its impossible to lose…

This i agree with, though it could have been a newbie as he kept killing my clones and barely touched me :/