Guild Wars 2

Nice title right? Makes you slightly annoyed that someone accuses your class of cheating? This was my scenario last night …

I’ll just quickly explain in brief my play-style. I am a full zerker geared, phantasm build, therefore I cant be hit or trapped else I’ll get smashed in a few big hits! I use to play shatter, therefore i move around ALOT and hide in clones and stealth as much as possible. That is the basic of it.

I ended up dueling an enemy guardian in WvW and proceeded to beat him 5 out of 5 rounds. This was fantastic fun, he wanted to learn how to beat me and the class, so i spent the time teaching him how to counter me and my play style. We genuinely had a blast doing this! Added each other to friends as we got on so well. Then he invited a few guild mates to come duel me…

After beating his guild mate (or almost beat as he stopped the duel) he started getting angry, accusing my play-style of running and hiding and using phantasms as cheating, and this is the part that amazed me said I was cheating as I wouldn’t let him hit? I ran to much apparently I wasn’t fighting the correct way in his eyes.

The reason I’m typing this is it’s kind of annoyed and vexed me and put doubt in the way I play the class. Should i be stood still in full tank gear taking damage?

Has anyone else ever come across people that accuse you of cheating or being a bad player simply because the way you play your class is so different to what they expect?

Pretty much god tier 1v1 though its not cheating its like bringing a pistol to a sword fight. Yeah the guy with the sword CAN win, and the pistol has exploitative weaknesses but lets be honest, who has a clear advantage?

It’s slightly better since the nerf due to phants being a little less accessible from longer cool downs but when your foe has significantly more obvious motions to avoid and you have 3-4 consistent sources of damage hitting like a truck that don’t really go away and having great survivabillity with avoidance, it becomes a bit of a easy win moment. Granted anyone who has AoE control effects will do better especially when your a glass phantasm build.

I don’t think calling you a cheat was valid, it’d be like playing black jack and saying the house cheats for having a 30% advantage. (Although I think phant has more vs most builds)

they just young yet ^^ u allways meet “crythieves&co” who dont know simple game mechanic, where duel class/spec alway win (95%) duel but suck in group fight. so relax and play the game to have fun.
and btw hard to teach other how counter mesmer if he learn how beet 1 mesmer, he cant beat others, it all about playstyle/movening. same skill, but different rotation and etc

Phantasm builds pretty much wreck everyone in a 1v1 situation. It is likely the only Mesmer build that is in actual need of a nerf. Sad and sorry but true.

jportell.2197:

Phantasm builds pretty much wreck everyone in a 1v1 situation. It is likely the only Mesmer build that is in actual need of a nerf. Sad and sorry but true.

no, go away.

XRay.1920:

jportell.2197:

Phantasm builds pretty much wreck everyone in a 1v1 situation. It is likely the only Mesmer build that is in actual need of a nerf. Sad and sorry but true.

no, go away.

So what absolutely wrecks a phantasm Mesmer in a 1v1 situation?

your statement about 1v1 is valid for shatter mesmers aswell, which is atm so strong that there’s no point in playing anything else in pvp. if you nerf phantasm builds, then mesmers in pve get hit badly even more than they had already been hit with the last patch. So before blurting something out, think a little bit.

XRay.1920:

your statement about 1v1 is valid for shatter mesmers aswell, which is atm so strong that there’s no point in playing anything else in pvp. if you nerf phantasm builds, then mesmers in pve get hit badly even more than they had already been hit with the last patch. So before blurting something out, think a little bit.

Not really shatter mesmers are hard countered by condi builds. Phantasm mesmers now 10/30/0/30/0 thanks to the iCelerity nerf can get shattered conditions and they are in the best trait line for dealing with conditions. So no the same thing can not be said for shatter mesmers.

shattered conditions is unreliable junk -.-

XRay.1920:

shattered conditions is unreliable junk -.-

Not really… guaranteed 3 conditions every shatter… Seems pretty sweet to me. I love mesmers and I hate when they get nerfed but this is one spec that is OP. And any Mesmer that cant at admit it… well

jportell.2197:

XRay.1920:

shattered conditions is unreliable junk -.-

Not really… guaranteed 3 conditions every shatter… Seems pretty sweet to me. I love mesmers and I hate when they get nerfed but this is one spec that is OP. And any Mesmer that cant at admit it… well

Any mesmer that can’t see why shattered conditions isn’t as good in practice as on paper… well… and it seems to me that you don’t even know the mechanic of the trait….

jportell.2197:

XRay.1920:

jportell.2197:

Phantasm builds pretty much wreck everyone in a 1v1 situation. It is likely the only Mesmer build that is in actual need of a nerf. Sad and sorry but true.

no, go away.

So what absolutely wrecks a phantasm Mesmer in a 1v1 situation?

AOE spam? troll glass thief?

XRay.1920:

jportell.2197:

XRay.1920:

shattered conditions is unreliable junk -.-

Not really… guaranteed 3 conditions every shatter… Seems pretty sweet to me. I love mesmers and I hate when they get nerfed but this is one spec that is OP. And any Mesmer that cant at admit it… well

Any mesmer that can’t see why shattered conditions isn’t as good in practice as on paper… well… and it seems to me that you don’t even know the mechanic of the trait….

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shattered_Conditions

I know several mesmers that run phantasm specs that take this trait. It is good team support and good for removing conditions in a class that has sub par condi removal. Could we use better traits further down or in our heal skills absolutely. Also AOE condi spam is OP as all hell so when someone says the only way to beat something OP is to use another something OP that’s just kinda backwards. And if it isn’t good then why did so many people just go 30 deep into inspiration after the illusionist celerity nerf on their phantasm spec. Empowered illusions #3 in domination just needs removed. It is a relic from when clones would do some damage and not has no purpose other than making one Mesmer build OP as all hell.

So what absolutely wrecks a phantasm Mesmer in a 1v1 situation?

Condi-necro…but they wreck everyone right now so that most likely doesn’t count ^^ Also a proper played zerker warrior, shatter mesmer or anyone who manages to put enough pressure on the real mesmer to get him into making mistakes.

Not really… guaranteed 3 conditions every shatter…

Wasn’t the trait bugged to only cleanse 1 condition regardless of the number of clones shattered? It should be a master trait after all…

And I know many mesmers who don’t take shattered conditions because of its unreliability. The condition removal isn’t instant, it comes with a delay. so the clones need to get to the target, break, and then the condition gets removed. Also if you are too far away your condition doesn’t get removed, so blinking or phase reteating or whatever only gimps you with this trait. but yea totally reliable…

anyways offensive guardians or defensive ones that know how to apply pressure can take down phantasm mesmers pretty easily aswell.

It sounds kind of like someone who has lost to a tanky super stealth thief and just let his anger out on you as well. It is perfectly fine to use that kind of tactic as our class is VERY good at it. It doesn’t need a nerf because of 1v1 the game SHOULDN’T be based off of 1v1 situations.

The “phantasms and run” kiting bs sure is lame. In duels you often declare a relatively small area where the duel is supposed to happen, and leaving it is considered as yelding. That’s how I like it anyway, keeps the match intense and prevents gimmicky kiting tactics.
But if you want to do that kiting crap, then you must allow the other player to do it as well. Have fun playing against perma stealth thieves who literally run to the mountains and come back stab you after 5 minutes. Then if they don’t get ya, they run again, so it’s draw at best since phant mesmer doesn’t have quick enough burst.

if you nerf phantasm builds, then mesmers in pve get hit badly even more than they had already been hit with the last patch. So before blurting something out, think a little bit.

Lol you can simply separate pvp and pve as already has been done some 10000 times.

yea arenanet is really well known for separating things in gw2 for pve and pvp -.-’’’’’’

XRay.1920:

yea arenanet is really well known for separating things in gw2 for pve and pvp -.-’’’’’’

What? Confusion, revealed duration, phantasm/clone health, stats, Tactical Strike to mention some. Many key skills and factors are separate.

If we’re cheating then what are perma-stealth backstab thieves? lolol and oh i also hate necros that fear you all the time!

Each class is unique and has its own play style and functionality, mesmers rely on all those tricks to stay alive and to fight.

If you’re a zerker mesmer and they can’t get you down, it’s a play skill thing, because you can be very fragile if hit properly.

As for the question, no you shouldn’t. You should be doing what you’re good at and what you’re comfortable at. If you’re good enough to not die as a zerker and burst down people, that’s your play style and your build. What’s a powerful d/d ele and thief do? burst people down? lol same thing

I suggest you have a read of this http://www.sirlin.net/ptw/ and perhaps pass it on to your guardian friend too.

In particular you may want to look at this http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/intermediates-guide.html to find out what’s going on with your friend.

Ross Biddle.2367:

I suggest you have a read of this http://www.sirlin.net/ptw/ and perhaps pass it on to your guardian friend too.

In particular you may want to look at this http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/intermediates-guide.html to find out what’s going on with your friend.

While I believe the claims that the OP was “cheating” by merely playing his/her Mesmer to the best of his/her ability, I can’t agree at all with the extreme “winning is all that matters” attitude of the writer on those articles, much less with his generalization that everyone who doesn’t play “cheap” is a scrub (because winning is all that matters, so one “should exploit” every opportunity to win.) I just believe there’s nothing “cheap” or “unfair” about Mesmer mechanics, and that while they may be hard to counter by many players, the Profession is a far cry from “unbeatable.” Learning to play better is the cure to Mesmer “cheap” tactics. True cheapness is stupid, though-and in no way am I a so-called scrub for believing so.

Of course, I am not advocating being whiny in defeat, like that person in the OP’s post.

Star Ace.5207:

Ross Biddle.2367:

I suggest you have a read of this http://www.sirlin.net/ptw/ and perhaps pass it on to your guardian friend too.

In particular you may want to look at this http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/intermediates-guide.html to find out what’s going on with your friend.

While I believe the claims that the OP was “cheating” by merely playing his/her Mesmer to the best of his/her ability, I can’t agree at all with the extreme “winning is all that matters” attitude of the writer on those articles, much less with his generalization that everyone who doesn’t play “cheap” is a scrub (because winning is all that matters, so one “should exploit” every opportunity to win.) I just believe there’s nothing “cheap” or “unfair” about Mesmer mechanics, and that while they may be hard to counter by many players, the Profession is a far cry from “unbeatable.” Learning to play better is the cure to Mesmer “cheap” tactics. True cheapness is stupid, though-and in no way am I a so-called scrub for believing so.

Of course, I am not advocating being whiny in defeat, like that person in the OP’s post.

You should read the entire thing.

You’re right, there is nothing cheap or unfair about the mesmer mechanics, and learning to play is what’s tantamount in this issue. In fact, until both parties can get on with playing to win, this will never happen.

Question: You said you couldn’t agree that “winning is all that matters”, so that’s made me wonder, what else would you say matters to you?

Ross Biddle.2367:

You should read the entire thing.

You’re right, there is nothing cheap or unfair about the mesmer mechanics, and learning to play is what’s tantamount in this issue. In fact, until both parties can get on with playing to win, this will never happen.

Question: You said you couldn’t agree that “winning is all that matters”, so that’s made me wonder, what else would you say matters to you?

sorry I haven’t read it yet but I will, however I have to say that question is a little jokes bc… Skill aside, good players and bad players, games are played to have fun, some people play to take their mind off of work or school, some people play with friends to laugh and enjoy themselves, some people play for the thrill for excitement. Winning is only a byproduct and a possible result during the game. Win or lose u should still be playing to enjoy urself. Laughing when you lose, or whatever response you might have that doesn’t negatively affect you.

What else matters? Everything else matters, and winning shouldn’t matter as much.

That said I have nothing against being a good player and learning to play well and people definitely shouldn’t complain about being cheap or something lol. If that’s the case that also is playing “to win” focusing too much on how one lost or can’t beat someone…

takatsu.9416:

Ross Biddle.2367:

You should read the entire thing.

You’re right, there is nothing cheap or unfair about the mesmer mechanics, and learning to play is what’s tantamount in this issue. In fact, until both parties can get on with playing to win, this will never happen.

Question: You said you couldn’t agree that “winning is all that matters”, so that’s made me wonder, what else would you say matters to you?

sorry I haven’t read it yet but I will, however I have to say that question is a little jokes bc… Skill aside, good players and bad players, games are played to have fun, some people play to take their mind off of work or school, some people play with friends to laugh and enjoy themselves, some people play for the thrill for excitement. Winning is only a byproduct and a possible result during the game. Win or lose u should still be playing to enjoy urself. Laughing when you lose, or whatever response you might have that doesn’t negatively affect you.

What else matters? Everything else matters, and winning shouldn’t matter as much.

That said I have nothing against being a good player and learning to play well and people definitely shouldn’t complain about being cheap or something lol. If that’s the case that also is playing “to win” focusing too much on how one lost or can’t beat someone…

I really recommend you do read it but to give you a hint of a response- It’s interesting that you say games should be played for fun because really that’s at the heart of it. Playing to win doesn’t at all mean that fun is sacrificed. On the contrary, arguably the most enjoyment that can be achieved from playing a game, i.e. the most fun, comes through exploring a games depths, and striving for its heights. Finding success, and defeating your opponents, “winning” produces greater satisfaction, and a deeper sense of joy than “playing for fun” could ever achieve.

Sadly, the retaliation nerf and the IC nerf shows that AN want phantasm specs to be toned down. I agree but I am worried as to how they will do it and the impact it will have on the mesmer class as a whole. AN clearly hates 1v1 style specs even if they do not directly state it.

The whole BM ranger → pet nerf for all rangers fiasco has me very worried for the future of phantasm specs and the mesmer class in general.