Guild Wars 2

omg guys team pz with condi mesmer

is it the beginning of new era?

same with our assessment. Our best option in the new meta.
But sad to see them being downstate food again.

messiah.1908:

omg guys team pz with condi mesmer

is it the beginning of new era?

Highly doubtful, he was very ineffective first match and 55 was smart to have the necro follow him around to completely counter him. We’ll see how the rest of the matches go.

skcamow.3527:

messiah.1908:

omg guys team pz with condi mesmer

is it the beginning of new era?

Highly doubtful, he was very ineffective first match and 55 was smart to have the necro follow him around to completely counter him. We’ll see how the rest of the matches go.

dont know he manage to decap couple of times with portal. only 1v2 killed him with 2 rev. the sword i think is the problem as not much condi pressure.
and hardly team fight . so tactic failure

messiah.1908:

skcamow.3527:

messiah.1908:

omg guys team pz with condi mesmer

is it the beginning of new era?

Highly doubtful, he was very ineffective first match and 55 was smart to have the necro follow him around to completely counter him. We’ll see how the rest of the matches go.

dont know he manage to decap couple of times with portal. only 1v2 killed him with 2 rev. the sword i think is the problem as not much condi pressure.
and hardly team fight . so tactic failure

Only at first before they caught on and stuck the necro on him.

He’s definitely playing decap role which would be much better with a thief. He was doing OK in 1v1’s vs rev but once there’s a necro or scrapper around, could be RIP.

Couple more matches to go, we’ll see if they can improve.

So I guess the “sky is falling” crowd are eating crow?

Azukas.1426:

So I guess the “sky is falling” crowd are eating crow?

Sky won’t fall as ppl can easily give up mesmer and switch to more powerful specs.

Exciton.8942:

Azukas.1426:

So I guess the “sky is falling” crowd are eating crow?

Sky won’t fall as ppl can easily give up mesmer and switch to more powerful specs.

But where are the druids, thieves, and warriors???

Azukas.1426:

Exciton.8942:

Azukas.1426:

So I guess the “sky is falling” crowd are eating crow?

Sky won’t fall as ppl can easily give up mesmer and switch to more powerful specs.

But where are the druids, thieves, and warriors???

Wait until next ESL season starts. I will bet u there will be more druids/thieves than mesmers.

the condi mes wasnt a condi rule rather decaper . kitten
i hardly see condi pressure out of him so its hard to see how valuable was he

but nice to see condi mes nevertheless

Azukas.1426:

Exciton.8942:

Azukas.1426:

So I guess the “sky is falling” crowd are eating crow?

Sky won’t fall as ppl can easily give up mesmer and switch to more powerful specs.

But where are the druids, thieves, and warriors???

yes should take thief for decap or rev

messiah.1908:

Azukas.1426:

Exciton.8942:

Azukas.1426:

So I guess the “sky is falling” crowd are eating crow?

Sky won’t fall as ppl can easily give up mesmer and switch to more powerful specs.

But where are the druids, thieves, and warriors???

yes should take thief for decap or rev

Dem condi doh

messiah.1908:

the condi mes wasnt a condi rule rather decaper . kitten
i hardly see condi pressure out of him so its hard to see how valuable was he

but nice to see condi mes nevertheless

Team levels are too different. You won’t see anything out of him regardless.

Exciton.8942:

messiah.1908:

the condi mes wasnt a condi rule rather decaper . kitten
i hardly see condi pressure out of him so its hard to see how valuable was he

but nice to see condi mes nevertheless

Team levels are too different. You won’t see anything out of him regardless.

Ding Ding Winner here.

So someone played something a “none pro” already did, but now it’s viable? Please be ahead of the “meta” …

Xyonon.3987:

So someone played something a “none pro” already did, but now it’s viable? Please be ahead of the “meta” …

It’s not.
Watching the pro-league, the only thing that was unexpected for me was no Druid. Then again, double rev. shrug

Condi mesmer is going to be tried much more heavily by teams like 55rank and tcg now.

I think given the playstyle as well as overall effectiveness this particular mesmer build should be called ‘sightseeing’ or ‘runner’ mesmer. At least nobody gonna yell its OP and requires heavy nerf bat.

I’m really confused here so something that was considered weak is suddenly good or above average because a great player is using it and its not listed as “meta”? I’m not sure but to me it seems like a lot of the forum base on this game struggles greatly with just saying someone is a really good player, and just say a build is useless or op when it has disadvantages and advantages.

Lalainnia.3598:

I’m really confused here so something that was considered weak is suddenly good or above average because a great player is using it and its not listed as “meta”? I’m not sure but to me it seems like a lot of the forum base on this game struggles greatly with just saying someone is a really good player, and just say a build is useless or op when it has disadvantages and advantages.

Let me try and explain the thought process behind running that mesmer.

The team noted the utility of portal. It’s potentially an extremely strong, even gamechanging, utility, so they wanted it on their team. Unfortunately, they need a mesmer to use it. They tossed out power mesmer as unviable, tank mesmer as unviable, interrupt mesmer as unviable, and settled upon condie mesmer as the best bet for a build that could accomplish something and still have portal on the bar.

Clearly, that bet didn’t pay off. The condie mesmer was useless and portal barely got used. The only reason a mesmer was picked was for portal, and the only reason condie mesmer was picked was because it was the best shot at being useful.

The build is extremely similar to what I’ve been playing recently – the core combo (in my opinion) is persistence of memory, echo of memory, chronophantasma & mental defense, which allows using echo of memory + mental defense every 10-15 seconds, for a very effective illusion generation engine and defensive cycle.

I think it worked reasonably well in that match anyway – it’s not too weak to reaper as it doesn’t rely on boons and illusions often absorb transfers. Double moa, aoe diversion and more adds quite a bit to a team fight. There was a bit earlier in the match where the mes finished taking down that same necro, showing decent damage when applied well.

I personally play this version – it uses scepter which improves condi pressure and a couple of other tweaks around standing on a point more in 1v1s.

Fay.2357:

Lalainnia.3598:

I’m really confused here so something that was considered weak is suddenly good or above average because a great player is using it and its not listed as “meta”? I’m not sure but to me it seems like a lot of the forum base on this game struggles greatly with just saying someone is a really good player, and just say a build is useless or op when it has disadvantages and advantages.

Let me try and explain the thought process behind running that mesmer.

The team noted the utility of portal. It’s potentially an extremely strong, even gamechanging, utility, so they wanted it on their team. Unfortunately, they need a mesmer to use it. They tossed out power mesmer as unviable, tank mesmer as unviable, interrupt mesmer as unviable, and settled upon condie mesmer as the best bet for a build that could accomplish something and still have portal on the bar.

Clearly, that bet didn’t pay off. The condie mesmer was useless and portal barely got used. The only reason a mesmer was picked was for portal, and the only reason condie mesmer was picked was because it was the best shot at being useful.

Mmmmm portal was used not effectivley for the team because they were pretty spread out due to what was going on but it was used and effectleviy for what was needed at the times and that was to cap nodes which partially worked. I’m not really sure how its possible to make a judgment on the mesmer being useless based off what was overall better team play by 55. To say mesmer was useless in those games doesn’t feel right to me as the whole team felt and played off tempo with each other.

Lalainnia.3598:

Fay.2357:

Lalainnia.3598:

I’m really confused here so something that was considered weak is suddenly good or above average because a great player is using it and its not listed as “meta”? I’m not sure but to me it seems like a lot of the forum base on this game struggles greatly with just saying someone is a really good player, and just say a build is useless or op when it has disadvantages and advantages.

Let me try and explain the thought process behind running that mesmer.

The team noted the utility of portal. It’s potentially an extremely strong, even gamechanging, utility, so they wanted it on their team. Unfortunately, they need a mesmer to use it. They tossed out power mesmer as unviable, tank mesmer as unviable, interrupt mesmer as unviable, and settled upon condie mesmer as the best bet for a build that could accomplish something and still have portal on the bar.

Clearly, that bet didn’t pay off. The condie mesmer was useless and portal barely got used. The only reason a mesmer was picked was for portal, and the only reason condie mesmer was picked was because it was the best shot at being useful.

Mmmmm portal was used not effectivley for the team because they were pretty spread out due to what was going on but it was used and effectleviy for what was needed at the times and that was to cap nodes which partially worked. I’m not really sure how its possible to make a judgment on the mesmer being useless based off what was overall better team play by 55. To say mesmer was useless in those games doesn’t feel right to me as the whole team felt and played off tempo with each other.

To be fair.
The mesmer did terrible moas, and got like, 2 portal plays off.
He obviously wasn’t playing his best, nor was his team.

BUT
“I’m really confused here so something that was considered weak is suddenly good or above average because a great player is using it and its not listed as “meta”?”

It’s not.
I’m sorry, there is literally nothing we can gain off of the way PZ played that.

Now, on the topic of mesmer viability.

Mesmer might be viable, due to the class limitations ANet are enforcing next tournament.
But I don’t see how the hell you’d pick a mesmer over a 2nd rev currently.
The only thing I could see being swapped out currently for a mesmer, is the necro.
But I’m a bit partial to that, because I didn’t really see solid necro play.
It looked like everyone wasn’t having the best day.

Current line-up: Rev, Tempest, Scrapper, Necro

Feel free to try and argue mesmer over thief/guard/druid. It’s not easy.
All 3 of those fill different roles, and do them quite well.

Like I was saying a bit ago, I actually feel like Necro is the outlier.
As such, I could potentially see: Rev, Tempest, Scrapper, Mes, Guard. Or Rev, Tempest, Scrapper, Thief, Guard.

Tempest was looking stronger than I thought it would. Then again, I don’t play Ele at all, so I had no clue what to expect out of it.

Azukas.1426:

So I guess the “sky is falling” crowd are eating crow?

Yes, one bad Mesmer build that didn’t achieve much proves that Mesmer is fine in all game modes and isn’t suffering from severe design problems.

This is where I roll my eyes so you can really get the sarcasm.

Levetty.1279:

Azukas.1426:

So I guess the “sky is falling” crowd are eating crow?

Yes, one bad Mesmer build that didn’t achieve much proves that Mesmer is fine in all game modes and isn’t suffering from severe design problems.

This is where I roll my eyes so you can really get the sarcasm.

This is where you realize Guardian, Thief, and Warrior didn’t even get looked at. This is also where you realize the discrepancy in team skill completely nullified any conclusions of that mesmers actual ceiling of contribution to a match.

Thank you for the input though

But at the same time in high skilled environment, while your illusions continue dying like now, your contribution to a mach is outclassed/outperformed easily. If you use the traits/signet to reinforze them you sacrifice your own survivability and team contribution in the same trait line, so you are against the same problem plus one less utility slot. And the more specializations will be added to reinforze the core ones the less unique things will be or at least replaceable. Yerterday, the gyros and AoE Moa were really usefull, etc. So the topic of be the utility class… the utility of others is just out there plus more things.

If devs increase the survivability of the illusions be prepared to the flames and qq even if it’s understood by few.. And how much? I see better a rework of our mechanic, but probably too much work to be realizable.

Azukas.1426:

Levetty.1279:

Azukas.1426:

So I guess the “sky is falling” crowd are eating crow?

Yes, one bad Mesmer build that didn’t achieve much proves that Mesmer is fine in all game modes and isn’t suffering from severe design problems.

This is where I roll my eyes so you can really get the sarcasm.

This is where you realize Guardian, Thief, and Warrior didn’t even get looked at. This is also where you realize the discrepancy in team skill completely nullified any conclusions of that mesmers actual ceiling of contribution to a match.

Thank you for the input though

This is where you realize that mesmer is mechanically inferior and got dumpstered in those matches regardless of team organization, but was in the comp purely because of being able to use a single utility.

the mesmer play was good (not great) the enemy force him not to play his team portal rather solo portal as the team fight wonderer at close while the mesmer always pushed far. cause they lost mid they could not have the benfit of portal mid-far. and the mesmer left alone with necro or 2 rev who pressure him off point till necro come back and hold it).
this play just show how to counter portal mesmer job effectively by pressure the orther team far from the mesmer. and also why mesmer still need some buff with power and condi to be viable again

So condie mesmer should be playable in ranked when the opposition team composition is not optimal.

But against the composition 55 and abjured ran, I don’t see mesmer having a chance to be competitive at highest level.

If it were viable, you wouldn’t see misha playing reaper now.

Exciton.8942:

So condie mesmer should be playable in ranked when the opposition team composition is not optimal.

But against the composition 55 and abjured ran, I don’t see mesmer having a chance to be competitive at highest level.

If it were viable, you wouldn’t see misha playing reaper now.

Condie mes will definitely be playable in ranked as long as you’re cognizant of running like hell if you see a necro. That’ll be the one huge danger.

Azukas.1426:

Levetty.1279:

Azukas.1426:

So I guess the “sky is falling” crowd are eating crow?

Yes, one bad Mesmer build that didn’t achieve much proves that Mesmer is fine in all game modes and isn’t suffering from severe design problems.

This is where I roll my eyes so you can really get the sarcasm.

This is where you realize Guardian, Thief, and Warrior didn’t even get looked at. This is also where you realize the discrepancy in team skill completely nullified any conclusions of that mesmers actual ceiling of contribution to a match.

Thank you for the input though

Guardian, Thief, and Warrior didn’t even get looked at, because why the heck would you take any of them over a second Revenant?
You should add Mesmer to that list.
Because again, why the heck would you take a mesmer over another Revenant?
Portal?
Meh.

It’s hard for me to validate portal and moa over everything else Rev brings.

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

Azukas.1426:

Levetty.1279:

Azukas.1426:

So I guess the “sky is falling” crowd are eating crow?

Yes, one bad Mesmer build that didn’t achieve much proves that Mesmer is fine in all game modes and isn’t suffering from severe design problems.

This is where I roll my eyes so you can really get the sarcasm.

This is where you realize Guardian, Thief, and Warrior didn’t even get looked at. This is also where you realize the discrepancy in team skill completely nullified any conclusions of that mesmers actual ceiling of contribution to a match.

Thank you for the input though

Guardian, Thief, and Warrior didn’t even get looked at, because why the heck would you take any of them over a second Revenant?
You should add Mesmer to that list.
Because again, why the heck would you take a mesmer over another Revenant?
Portal?
Meh.

It’s hard for me to validate portal and moa over everything else Rev brings.

We got in the finals. Heck I’m sure PZ ran mesmer against that same comp since Abjured ran it too. Pretty sure they had some success against it before.

@ azuka You attack me regularly for claiming that Mesmer is underpowered. I suppose now you’ll claim that Mesmer is better than warrior, thief and guard and needs a nerf.

Pro players tried it and failed miserably. There’s clear proof that Mesmer is seriously underpowered.

Oh and Azukas? Thanks for comparing me to Fay I consider that a great ( if undeserved ) compliment.

Playing Mes now feels like pre-June 2015 state. Doesn’t feel good at the moment.

Azukas.1426:

Fay.2357:

Azukas.1426:

Levetty.1279:

Azukas.1426:

So I guess the “sky is falling” crowd are eating crow?

Yes, one bad Mesmer build that didn’t achieve much proves that Mesmer is fine in all game modes and isn’t suffering from severe design problems.

This is where I roll my eyes so you can really get the sarcasm.

This is where you realize Guardian, Thief, and Warrior didn’t even get looked at. This is also where you realize the discrepancy in team skill completely nullified any conclusions of that mesmers actual ceiling of contribution to a match.

Thank you for the input though

This is where you realize that mesmer is mechanically inferior and got dumpstered in those matches regardless of team organization, but was in the comp purely because of being able to use a single utility.

Its been broken down. Starting to think you are an alternative account for ithiliwen

Somewhere else i read u said new wop is fine , i really want to see you use that aegis now .nothing personal.

as for mechanically inferior its a simple fact ,just take a look at mes sustain damage (oh mes does burst , so other class does that too but with far higher sustain),not to mention it relies heavily on illusions which die to one cleave in pvp.

look at staff and torch CDR traits , u cant argue with those solid number when comparing those with other classses CDR trait .

look at our condi build ,it has the least passive proc well which is good thing but think of its damage and think of engi IP or necro chill just lol .

IOL, make your life like illusion !

nullfield and at cd lol

staff projectiles speed

swap

and TW VS feel my wrath

sigils and runes mostly have no affect on illusion when they are our main damage source .

being slowest class in game for 3 years was fun ?they fixed it with chrono line so ok no complain here .

when perp rune was op in wvw , you know who used it best , engi , not mes , even tho confusion was our theme condi .

mes has strong utilities , yes .but any other classes do have their own way to support team in many cases they even do better and deal higher damage with better survivability .

before you say its coz game got power creep, anet should have nerfed others and mes is fine blalala. those situation exists before HOT. and hence why you didnt see much mes play in 3 years for serious high end pvp comparing with other class.(necro was close to this too but they did get actual buff over years .)for mes it was one step forward two steps backward .nothing was new .

when i played CI , a interrupt build and killing people ,everyone else was like omg mes has so many cc (some even cried so called instantly cc). and funny thing was most power builds had more cc than mes with shorter cd unless you count offhand sword daze as a thing lol before HOT.

mes had burst potential on par with other classes before HOT if not better in some ways . it still has burst if we dont remember mirror blade nerf , illusion line nerf and dom line random nerf. but well mes still does burst but lacking of sustain damage or survivability the burst damage didnt work out well for mes .

Azukas.1426:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

Azukas.1426:

Levetty.1279:

Azukas.1426:

So I guess the “sky is falling” crowd are eating crow?

Yes, one bad Mesmer build that didn’t achieve much proves that Mesmer is fine in all game modes and isn’t suffering from severe design problems.

This is where I roll my eyes so you can really get the sarcasm.

This is where you realize Guardian, Thief, and Warrior didn’t even get looked at. This is also where you realize the discrepancy in team skill completely nullified any conclusions of that mesmers actual ceiling of contribution to a match.

Thank you for the input though

Guardian, Thief, and Warrior didn’t even get looked at, because why the heck would you take any of them over a second Revenant?
You should add Mesmer to that list.
Because again, why the heck would you take a mesmer over another Revenant?
Portal?
Meh.

It’s hard for me to validate portal and moa over everything else Rev brings.

We got in the finals. Heck I’m sure PZ ran mesmer against that same comp since Abjured ran it too. Pretty sure they had some success against it before.

I love the double think here.
We can’t assume anything off of that mesmer’s performance.

But lets assume something off of that mesmer’s performance.

It’s kittening hilarious bro. You’ve countered your own argument.

Too early to call anything good or bad. We saw sub-par performance which on that level is massive.

Anyone who questions the utility a mesmer can potentially bring to a PvP match is a fool, though. I diagnosed portal play as being what will be a critical factor in sPvP play quite some time ago with the introduction of chrono and also again with the removal of celestial/defensive amulets. Whether or not that utility gain will matter in the highest echelon of play is the question at hand due to the fight difficulty being so competitive and the tactics employed recognized and countered early such that combat classes may be preferential. Good portal play can and will accelerate a team into the pinnacle of performance where other teams won’t expect it or know how to deal with it, but whether or not it holds true at this level is yet to be determined.

TBH, I’m surprised power shatter wasn’t used over conditions. The strength of the mes right now is portal play pretty much defining a win or lose, and overall, classes are a lot glassier than the previous tournaments such that power’s better off than it was before. I feel conditions is too weak against reaper and boon stripping and bursting a number of the current builds used is a pretty big deal.

No war/thief/guard is unsurprising. These three truthfully are bottom-tier and bring nothing to fights which rev can’t do better while bringing nothing mechanically unique/powerful to the battlefield. No druid is more surprising than anything else.

DeceiverX.8361:

Too early to call anything good or bad. We saw sub-par performance which on that level is massive.

Anyone who questions the utility a mesmer can potentially bring to a PvP match is a fool, though. I diagnosed portal play as being what will be a critical factor in sPvP play quite some time ago with the introduction of chrono and also again with the removal of celestial/defensive amulets. Whether or not that utility gain will matter in the highest echelon of play is the question at hand due to the fight difficulty being so competitive and the tactics employed recognized and countered early such that combat classes may be preferential. Good portal play can and will accelerate a team into the pinnacle of performance where other teams won’t expect it or know how to deal with it, but whether or not it holds true at this level is yet to be determined.

TBH, I’m surprised power shatter wasn’t used over conditions. The strength of the mes right now is portal play pretty much defining a win or lose, and overall, classes are a lot glassier than the previous tournaments such that power’s better off than it was before. I feel conditions is too weak against reaper and boon stripping and bursting a number of the current builds used is a pretty big deal.

No war/thief/guard is unsurprising. These three truthfully are bottom-tier and bring nothing to fights which rev can’t do better while bringing nothing mechanically unique/powerful to the battlefield. No druid is more surprising than anything else.

“Anyone who questions the utility a mesmer can potentially bring to a PvP match is a fool, though.”

“Whether or not that utility gain will matter in the highest echelon of play is the question at hand due to the fight difficulty being so competitive and the tactics employed recognized and countered early such that combat classes may be preferential.”

You’re literally questioning the utility a mesmer can potentially bring to a PvP match.
Which is a completely reasonable thing to do.

Everyone focuses so much on portal, but seems to ignore that mesmer has a hard counter. A hard counter that, admittedly, takes a lot of skill to play.
But when are you going to do anything with a portal, when you have a good thief on top of you?

They’re literally going to force you to burn portal for survival. And while you bring potentially a lot to a team fight, a thief doesn’t.
So a thief doing nothing but shutting you down, and doing a bit of decapping, is effectively doing his whole job.

In order to use portal, you have to play around the fact that you have portal.
But if your portal user gets shut down, then your entire plan goes down the drain.

“Can potentially bring to a[ny] PvP match” isn’t questioning the utility of the class when examining a particular PvP match. The bit about potential is the critical part. A HB warrior can potentially bring a lot of damage to a fight. But that’s fight-specific and the damage done is dependent on a lot of factors, typically not at the discretion of the warrior but of the foe.

Current mesmer/chrono does better against the thief than it ever has, which overall has pushed the mesmer and thief matchup to be pretty balanced. A lot of people deny this, but on equal footing, the matchup is honestly pretty split these days. It’s only really favoring the thief in duels, but that’s quite the opposite of competitive PvP. You didn’t see Helseth seem to care at all about Daredevil play or Toker going on mesmer-slaying rampages. While the thief does bring the most potential decapping of all of the classes, the top-tier play is a different beast. The pros claim the thief isn’t even a consideration for decapping because combat matters more right now and the revenant, mesmer, and scrapper, all offer similar decapping potential, but much better fight presence. Just because the “potential” is there, just as how portal can being huge “potential” utility, doesn’t mean it’s going to be necessarily worthwhile in the top tiers of play. That is what I said, no? Right.

I’ve got a feeling we’ll see druid use over thief use even in leagues where no duplication is allowed, just because the druid does a better job against a variety of classes, can hold a point, and offers substantial mobility while directly hard-countering any prospective thieves. The primary role of the thief was to decap uncontested points. Even that has been phased out, and the mesmer matchup of the days of olde favoring the thief so heavily have long since passed.

DeceiverX.8361:

“Can potentially bring to a[ny] PvP match” isn’t questioning the utility of the class when examining a particular PvP match. The bit about potential is the critical part. A HB warrior can potentially bring a lot of damage to a fight. But that’s fight-specific and the damage done is dependent on a lot of factors, typically not at the discretion of the warrior but of the foe.

Current mesmer/chrono does better against the thief than it ever has, which overall has pushed the mesmer and thief matchup to be pretty balanced. A lot of people deny this, but on equal footing, the matchup is honestly pretty split these days. It’s only really favoring the thief in duels, but that’s quite the opposite of competitive PvP. You didn’t see Helseth seem to care at all about Daredevil play or Toker going on mesmer-slaying rampages. While the thief does bring the most potential decapping of all of the classes, the top-tier play is a different beast. The pros claim the thief isn’t even a consideration for decapping because combat matters more right now and the revenant, mesmer, and scrapper, all offer similar decapping potential, but much better fight presence. Just because the “potential” is there, just as how portal can being huge “potential” utility, doesn’t mean it’s going to be necessarily worthwhile in the top tiers of play. That is what I said, no? Right.

I’ve got a feeling we’ll see druid use over thief use even in leagues where no duplication is allowed, just because the druid does a better job against a variety of classes, can hold a point, and offers substantial mobility while directly hard-countering any prospective thieves. The primary role of the thief was to decap uncontested points. Even that has been phased out, and the mesmer matchup of the days of olde favoring the thief so heavily have long since passed.

""Can potentially bring to a[ny] PvP match" isn’t questioning the utility of the class when examining a particular PvP match."
Yes, yes it is.
Once one team has found a counter, other teams have no real reason not to mirror that counter should it come up.
And if we’re not talking about the highest level of play when concerned about PvP balance, we’re sort of wasting our time.

A strategy with a hard counter is cheese. It could work, but you’re more likely to be eaten.
Especially in this game. Where you can’t change anything mid game, and you don’t get to dictate anything for your opponent in the pre-game.

I really don’t see how mesmer beats a good thief.
Especially if we’re going to mention Helseth, considering what I’ve said is extremely similar to what Helseth has said on this topic.

I get that I’m not the best player, clearly. I’m garbage.
But thief has no real reason to lose to mesmer. Even if he gets a bad engage, he can just reset. Mesmer can’t chase a thief. Hell, no one can.
Unless he burned all of his initiative in that first attempt to kill you, he should be able to reset and hop right back on your corpse.

I agree though, that druid is more likely to see play than thief. But I still see thief as a counter pick to shut down mesmer plays, if they’re at all a concern.

Azukas.1426:

So I guess the “sky is falling” crowd are eating crow?

There’s no crow to eat because the Mesmer proved its just not viable. Making an appearance doesnt mean it’s effective.

rchu.8945:

Azukas.1426:

So I guess the “sky is falling” crowd are eating crow?

There’s no crow to eat because the Mesmer proved its just not viable. Making an appearance doesnt mean it’s effective.

The discrepancy in team skill stopped the mesmer not the mesmer class.

I’ll say it again. A pro team went with mesmer for a reason and didn’t consider guardian, thief, or warrior at all.

Our class is better off than those 3, and you literally can’t deny it. We are not trash tier. We may be at an under powered level, but we are going to have to see how our utility pans out in this new meta.

And yes I supported every single mesmer nerf that anet gave us in order to kill chrono bunker. I’m not afraid to state whats OP even if it’s my main class b/c I know over health of the game matters more. Seems the rest of y’all can’t do this. That’s ok just please realize that your opinions on balance are taken with a grain of salt

Azukas.1426:

rchu.8945:

Azukas.1426:

So I guess the “sky is falling” crowd are eating crow?

There’s no crow to eat because the Mesmer proved its just not viable. Making an appearance doesnt mean it’s effective.

The discrepancy in team skill stopped the mesmer not the mesmer class.

You’ve got a hilarious double standard here. You’re saying that the mesmer’s poor performance can’t possibly indicate that mesmer is poor because the team was bad, then you turn around and say that the mesmer is clearly viable because it showed up in the tournament, despite having just claimed that you can’t tell anything about the mesmer due to the bad team. You can’t have it both ways, either it means something or it doesn’t.

Azukas.1426:

I’ll say it again. A pro team went with mesmer for a reason and didn’t consider guardian, thief, or warrior at all.

Yeah. Want to know the reason? http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Portal_Entre

That’s literally it. They chose mesmer because we have portal. Not because the class outside of portal is even remotely good.

Azukas.1426:

Our class is better off than those 3, and you literally can’t deny it. We are not trash tier. We may be at an under powered level, but we are going to have to see how our utility pans out in this new meta.

Based on what? The only team that took a mesmer got dismantled. Yes, I know, the team played badly, you’ve already mentioned it…but it’s nothing short of lunacy to use the fact that a team brought a mesmer as mesmer being viable when that team got massacred.

Until you can give an argument more intelligent than ‘but a team that got destroyed brought a mesmer so mesmer is viable’, you’ve got absolutely nothing to say.

Fay.2357:

Azukas.1426:

rchu.8945:

Azukas.1426:

So I guess the “sky is falling” crowd are eating crow?

There’s no crow to eat because the Mesmer proved its just not viable. Making an appearance doesnt mean it’s effective.

The discrepancy in team skill stopped the mesmer not the mesmer class.

You’ve got a hilarious double standard here. You’re saying that the mesmer’s poor performance can’t possibly indicate that mesmer is poor because the team was bad, then you turn around and say that the mesmer is clearly viable because it showed up in the tournament, despite having just claimed that you can’t tell anything about the mesmer due to the bad team. You can’t have it both ways, either it means something or it doesn’t.

Azukas.1426:

I’ll say it again. A pro team went with mesmer for a reason and didn’t consider guardian, thief, or warrior at all.

Yeah. Want to know the reason? http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Portal_Entre

That’s literally it. They chose mesmer because we have portal. Not because the class outside of portal is even remotely good.

Azukas.1426:

Our class is better off than those 3, and you literally can’t deny it. We are not trash tier. We may be at an under powered level, but we are going to have to see how our utility pans out in this new meta.

Based on what? The only team that took a mesmer got dismantled. Yes, I know, the team played badly, you’ve already mentioned it…but it’s nothing short of lunacy to use the fact that a team brought a mesmer as mesmer being viable when that team got massacred.

Until you can give an argument more intelligent than ‘but a team that got destroyed brought a mesmer so mesmer is viable’, you’ve got absolutely nothing to say.

It didn’t matter what classes Rank 55 ran against PZ….they were that much better than them. So coming to a conclusion on how well mesmer works in this meta can’t be done.

What conclusion can be made is a pro team decided to run mesmer b/c they saw something in our class. I can guarantee you that they’ve faced Rev, Rev, Necro, Ele, Engi in their scrims with the abjured (who just happened to run that comp) before the finals.

Thank You

Azukas.1426:

Fay.2357:

Azukas.1426:

rchu.8945:

Azukas.1426:

So I guess the “sky is falling” crowd are eating crow?

There’s no crow to eat because the Mesmer proved its just not viable. Making an appearance doesnt mean it’s effective.

The discrepancy in team skill stopped the mesmer not the mesmer class.

You’ve got a hilarious double standard here. You’re saying that the mesmer’s poor performance can’t possibly indicate that mesmer is poor because the team was bad, then you turn around and say that the mesmer is clearly viable because it showed up in the tournament, despite having just claimed that you can’t tell anything about the mesmer due to the bad team. You can’t have it both ways, either it means something or it doesn’t.

Azukas.1426:

I’ll say it again. A pro team went with mesmer for a reason and didn’t consider guardian, thief, or warrior at all.

Yeah. Want to know the reason? http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Portal_Entre

That’s literally it. They chose mesmer because we have portal. Not because the class outside of portal is even remotely good.

Azukas.1426:

Our class is better off than those 3, and you literally can’t deny it. We are not trash tier. We may be at an under powered level, but we are going to have to see how our utility pans out in this new meta.

Based on what? The only team that took a mesmer got dismantled. Yes, I know, the team played badly, you’ve already mentioned it…but it’s nothing short of lunacy to use the fact that a team brought a mesmer as mesmer being viable when that team got massacred.

Until you can give an argument more intelligent than ‘but a team that got destroyed brought a mesmer so mesmer is viable’, you’ve got absolutely nothing to say.

It didn’t matter what classes Rank 55 ran against PZ….they were that much better than them. So coming to a conclusion on how well mesmer works in this meta can’t be done.

What conclusion can be made is a pro team decided to run mesmer b/c they saw something in our class. I can guarantee you that they’ve faced Rev, Rev, Necro, Ele, Engi in their scrims with the abjured (who just happened to run that comp) before the finals.

Thank You

You can’t guarantee that. Unless you’ve watched their scrims, in which case, fair enough.

But it’s possible that Abjured spent all their time against PZ trying out comps that weren’t Rev, Rev, Necro, Ele, Engi.

In fact, they may have specifically avoided that one, to prevent tipping PZ off.

Azukas.1426:

Fay.2357:

Azukas.1426:

rchu.8945:

Azukas.1426:

So I guess the “sky is falling” crowd are eating crow?

There’s no crow to eat because the Mesmer proved its just not viable. Making an appearance doesnt mean it’s effective.

The discrepancy in team skill stopped the mesmer not the mesmer class.

You’ve got a hilarious double standard here. You’re saying that the mesmer’s poor performance can’t possibly indicate that mesmer is poor because the team was bad, then you turn around and say that the mesmer is clearly viable because it showed up in the tournament, despite having just claimed that you can’t tell anything about the mesmer due to the bad team. You can’t have it both ways, either it means something or it doesn’t.

Azukas.1426:

I’ll say it again. A pro team went with mesmer for a reason and didn’t consider guardian, thief, or warrior at all.

Yeah. Want to know the reason? http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Portal_Entre

That’s literally it. They chose mesmer because we have portal. Not because the class outside of portal is even remotely good.

Azukas.1426:

Our class is better off than those 3, and you literally can’t deny it. We are not trash tier. We may be at an under powered level, but we are going to have to see how our utility pans out in this new meta.

Based on what? The only team that took a mesmer got dismantled. Yes, I know, the team played badly, you’ve already mentioned it…but it’s nothing short of lunacy to use the fact that a team brought a mesmer as mesmer being viable when that team got massacred.

Until you can give an argument more intelligent than ‘but a team that got destroyed brought a mesmer so mesmer is viable’, you’ve got absolutely nothing to say.

It didn’t matter what classes Rank 55 ran against PZ….they were that much better than them. So coming to a conclusion on how well mesmer works in this meta can’t be done.

What conclusion can be made is a pro team decided to run mesmer b/c they saw something in our class. I can guarantee you that they’ve faced Rev, Rev, Necro, Ele, Engi in their scrims with the abjured (who just happened to run that comp) before the finals.

Thank You

Yeah. They saw portal. I’m not sure why you keep denying that portal is the singular reason they ran it, with moa as an honorable mention.

Fay.2357:

Azukas.1426:

Fay.2357:

Azukas.1426:

rchu.8945:

Azukas.1426:

So I guess the “sky is falling” crowd are eating crow?

There’s no crow to eat because the Mesmer proved its just not viable. Making an appearance doesnt mean it’s effective.

The discrepancy in team skill stopped the mesmer not the mesmer class.

You’ve got a hilarious double standard here. You’re saying that the mesmer’s poor performance can’t possibly indicate that mesmer is poor because the team was bad, then you turn around and say that the mesmer is clearly viable because it showed up in the tournament, despite having just claimed that you can’t tell anything about the mesmer due to the bad team. You can’t have it both ways, either it means something or it doesn’t.

Azukas.1426:

I’ll say it again. A pro team went with mesmer for a reason and didn’t consider guardian, thief, or warrior at all.

Yeah. Want to know the reason? http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Portal_Entre

That’s literally it. They chose mesmer because we have portal. Not because the class outside of portal is even remotely good.

Azukas.1426:

Our class is better off than those 3, and you literally can’t deny it. We are not trash tier. We may be at an under powered level, but we are going to have to see how our utility pans out in this new meta.

Based on what? The only team that took a mesmer got dismantled. Yes, I know, the team played badly, you’ve already mentioned it…but it’s nothing short of lunacy to use the fact that a team brought a mesmer as mesmer being viable when that team got massacred.

Until you can give an argument more intelligent than ‘but a team that got destroyed brought a mesmer so mesmer is viable’, you’ve got absolutely nothing to say.

It didn’t matter what classes Rank 55 ran against PZ….they were that much better than them. So coming to a conclusion on how well mesmer works in this meta can’t be done.

What conclusion can be made is a pro team decided to run mesmer b/c they saw something in our class. I can guarantee you that they’ve faced Rev, Rev, Necro, Ele, Engi in their scrims with the abjured (who just happened to run that comp) before the finals.

Thank You

Yeah. They saw portal. I’m not sure why you keep denying that portal is the singular reason they ran it, with moa as an honorable mention.

I’m not denying anything simply stating we don’t know because they haven’t said. You’re assuming I’m going byou facts.

Please come with facts not emotions

Azukas.1426:

Fay.2357:

Azukas.1426:

Fay.2357:

Azukas.1426:

rchu.8945:

Azukas.1426:

So I guess the “sky is falling” crowd are eating crow?

There’s no crow to eat because the Mesmer proved its just not viable. Making an appearance doesnt mean it’s effective.

The discrepancy in team skill stopped the mesmer not the mesmer class.

You’ve got a hilarious double standard here. You’re saying that the mesmer’s poor performance can’t possibly indicate that mesmer is poor because the team was bad, then you turn around and say that the mesmer is clearly viable because it showed up in the tournament, despite having just claimed that you can’t tell anything about the mesmer due to the bad team. You can’t have it both ways, either it means something or it doesn’t.

Azukas.1426:

I’ll say it again. A pro team went with mesmer for a reason and didn’t consider guardian, thief, or warrior at all.

Yeah. Want to know the reason? http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Portal_Entre

That’s literally it. They chose mesmer because we have portal. Not because the class outside of portal is even remotely good.

Azukas.1426:

Our class is better off than those 3, and you literally can’t deny it. We are not trash tier. We may be at an under powered level, but we are going to have to see how our utility pans out in this new meta.

Based on what? The only team that took a mesmer got dismantled. Yes, I know, the team played badly, you’ve already mentioned it…but it’s nothing short of lunacy to use the fact that a team brought a mesmer as mesmer being viable when that team got massacred.

Until you can give an argument more intelligent than ‘but a team that got destroyed brought a mesmer so mesmer is viable’, you’ve got absolutely nothing to say.

It didn’t matter what classes Rank 55 ran against PZ….they were that much better than them. So coming to a conclusion on how well mesmer works in this meta can’t be done.

What conclusion can be made is a pro team decided to run mesmer b/c they saw something in our class. I can guarantee you that they’ve faced Rev, Rev, Necro, Ele, Engi in their scrims with the abjured (who just happened to run that comp) before the finals.

Thank You

Yeah. They saw portal. I’m not sure why you keep denying that portal is the singular reason they ran it, with moa as an honorable mention.

I’m not denying anything simply stating we don’t know because they haven’t said. You’re assuming I’m going byou facts.

Please come with facts not emotions

Everyone in this thread has been shoving facts and reason in your face, you’re just denying everything.

Ananeos.4587:

Azukas.1426:

Fay.2357:

Azukas.1426:

Fay.2357:

Azukas.1426:

rchu.8945:

Azukas.1426:

So I guess the “sky is falling” crowd are eating crow?

There’s no crow to eat because the Mesmer proved its just not viable. Making an appearance doesnt mean it’s effective.

The discrepancy in team skill stopped the mesmer not the mesmer class.

You’ve got a hilarious double standard here. You’re saying that the mesmer’s poor performance can’t possibly indicate that mesmer is poor because the team was bad, then you turn around and say that the mesmer is clearly viable because it showed up in the tournament, despite having just claimed that you can’t tell anything about the mesmer due to the bad team. You can’t have it both ways, either it means something or it doesn’t.

Azukas.1426:

I’ll say it again. A pro team went with mesmer for a reason and didn’t consider guardian, thief, or warrior at all.

Yeah. Want to know the reason? http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Portal_Entre

That’s literally it. They chose mesmer because we have portal. Not because the class outside of portal is even remotely good.

Azukas.1426:

Our class is better off than those 3, and you literally can’t deny it. We are not trash tier. We may be at an under powered level, but we are going to have to see how our utility pans out in this new meta.

Based on what? The only team that took a mesmer got dismantled. Yes, I know, the team played badly, you’ve already mentioned it…but it’s nothing short of lunacy to use the fact that a team brought a mesmer as mesmer being viable when that team got massacred.

Until you can give an argument more intelligent than ‘but a team that got destroyed brought a mesmer so mesmer is viable’, you’ve got absolutely nothing to say.

It didn’t matter what classes Rank 55 ran against PZ….they were that much better than them. So coming to a conclusion on how well mesmer works in this meta can’t be done.

What conclusion can be made is a pro team decided to run mesmer b/c they saw something in our class. I can guarantee you that they’ve faced Rev, Rev, Necro, Ele, Engi in their scrims with the abjured (who just happened to run that comp) before the finals.

Thank You

Yeah. They saw portal. I’m not sure why you keep denying that portal is the singular reason they ran it, with moa as an honorable mention.

I’m not denying anything simply stating we don’t know because they haven’t said. You’re assuming I’m going byou facts.

Please come with facts not emotions

Everyone in this thread has been shoving facts and reason in your face, you’re just denying everything.

No they haven’t.