Guild Wars 2

as a new mesmer, I felt that the mantras recharging in the background was over-the-top bordering on OP.

now that it will only recharge after the last charge is expended, I think it is balanced now.

You don’t get me loading you with 4 stuns or 4 heals in a few seconds.

I was hoping they’d make Mantras start recharging after the first charge is expended in combat, instead they reverted it completely and said it’s a bug. Oh wells…

And so we’re back to the point where it’s better to blow all your charges as soon as the first charge is used to avoid wasting CD, especially for Recovery.

Funny, i remember you’re the one saying mesmer is not OP. like not at all.

Mantras already need to be pre-cast with a very long casting time. In middle of a fight, unless I’m stealthed or behind some cover, I can’t pre-cast one. Was it really that imbalanced to have them recharge in the background? To me, it just felt more fluid.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/WvsW-Roaming-Medi-Guardian-Shattered-Aegis
The op states good job good skills on this guardian burst roaming build yet Mesmer is/was op. Just goes to show if you disappear and use stealth you are op and forget the rest.

My mantra’s ah kitten . this sucks balls, This really sucks. Mantra’s already have a long cast time. Like casting them in battle, would ussually need you to be in stealth mode. Or you had to be Lucky. The casting of mantra’s itself either had you waster your stealth or left you open. I actually thought the way it worked was fine. i never knew it was a ’’bug’’. Now do I not only have worry about. kitten more cooldowns to worry about.

Well and I was so proud about my mantra mesmer. Well back to the drawing board I guess.

edit: Lol wait a minute, I Always fought like this pre patch. Well, guess timing and keeping track of you cooldowns is essential.

denis.9487:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/WvsW-Roaming-Medi-Guardian-Shattered-Aegis
The op states good job good skills on this guardian burst roaming build yet Mesmer is/was op. Just goes to show if you disappear and use stealth you are op and forget the rest.

Funny thing is I actually met the op (a necro) in wvw when I was dueling with ppl from other servers.

op: do you think mesmer is op?
me: no, i think necro is op
op: yeah, let me show you how I melt that thief.
me: go for it!
—————————————-
And he ambushed that thief, whom I dueled earlier. Guess what? It came to a tie after 10 mins of fighting. What happened to melting the thief?
—————————————-
op: let me show you how I take down the mesmer and the thief
me: ok
—————————————-
He then went on ambushing the mesmer and thief. Guess what, he melted in 3 seconds.

I guess op is better off as a forum warrior.

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Well and I was so proud about my mantra mesmer. Well back to the drawing board I guess.

Honestly, I think the build’s still playable. The problem is that it “feels” icky now. Mantras have gone from being clunky to having one of the most pleasant “flows” of anything in the game back to being their old clunky selves. ‘Cept now we’ve all seen the alternative and they are monstrously, horrifically clunky in our eyes instead.

ASP.8093:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Well and I was so proud about my mantra mesmer. Well back to the drawing board I guess.

Honestly, I think the build’s still playable. The problem is that it “feels” icky now. Mantras have gone from being clunky to having one of the most pleasant “flows” of anything in the game back to being their old clunky selves. ‘Cept now we’ve all seen the alternative and they are monstrously, horrifically clunky in our eyes instead.

Yeah I realised this. Hence I wrote in an edit. Yeah I was getting sloppy with mesmer and kittened around too much. But now u need be a bit more skillfull again. It’s going to take some time trying to not get that many cd’s in the game I’m glad I have a kittenload of condi cleanses stealth and stunbreakers. Guess I cannot stack stealth again for the lulz and instead will have to use a few stealth when i have too many cooldowns. I think we will see a more defensive plays. guess this nerf isn’t that bad. It’s a wake up call.

But yeah you’re right. we used to get a bones with a bit of meat hanging. Then A net gave an entire Turkey. And now we are back to bones.

sigh

IF they are going to revert the way cooldowns work then they should remove the cast time. Either that or give shouts, stances, meditations, etc cast times.

neptunechild.4831:

denis.9487:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/WvsW-Roaming-Medi-Guardian-Shattered-Aegis
The op states good job good skills on this guardian burst roaming build yet Mesmer is/was op. Just goes to show if you disappear and use stealth you are op and forget the rest.

Funny thing is I actually met the op (a necro) in wvw when I was dueling with ppl from other servers.

op: do you think mesmer is op?
me: no, i think necro is op
op: yeah, let me show you how I melt that thief.
me: go for it!
—————————————-
And he ambushed that thief, whom I dueled earlier. Guess what? It came to a tie after 10 mins of fighting. What happened to melting the thief?
—————————————-
op: let me show you how I take down the mesmer and the thief
me: ok
—————————————-
He then went on ambushing the mesmer and thief. Guess what, he melted in 3 seconds.

I guess op is better off as a forum warrior.

I was only showing you how ‘OP’ necros were when you said necros were OP =)

neptunechild.4831:

Funny, i remember you’re the one saying mesmer is not OP. like not at all.

I did say that. nothing has changed =)

I will miss mantra supremacy.

The main thing I’ll miss is recharging partially used mantras. When dungeon running, if after engaging a group I had 1/3 charges left, I’d just blow the remaining charges and channel it so I have 3 of each by the time the next fight starts. Now, I can’t do that anymore.

I thought it was a nice improvement as well when I first saw its background CD. But then something kinda felt off when you could do 3 dazes and then have another 3 dazes up in 2 seconds and then another 3 dazes in maybe 10 seconds if your enemy isn’t dead already. The cost of 2 sec charging in battle didn’t really justify the 6 dazes tbh. You said it forced you to waste stealth, ONE stealth but then you come up with 3 more CCs.

It was fun while it lasted.

I just keep thinking that I want actually useful mantra charges (back when it was a single charge) back.

fixed lol. do you really think forcing people to fire off unused charges for no reason is good design? They could have 2x the mantra recharge timer and achieved the same result and still reward intelligent play .

DavyMcB.1603:

I thought it was a nice improvement as well when I first saw its background CD. But then something kinda felt off when you could do 3 dazes and then have another 3 dazes up in 2 seconds and then another 3 dazes in maybe 10 seconds if your enemy isn’t dead already. The cost of 2 sec charging in battle didn’t really justify the 6 dazes tbh. You said it forced you to waste stealth, ONE stealth but then you come up with 3 more CCs.

It was fun while it lasted.

From your post, it seems like a problem with Power Lock rather than mantras as a whole to me. However, I don’t think that the dazes were the issue, it was the stun. Which is the fault of Confounding Suggestions. Which has 5 seconds cd. Maybe it should be higher, or has a shorter duration of stun. But for certain, mantras shouldn’t have changed back.

Mogar.9216:

fixed lol. do you really think forcing people to fire off unused charges for no reason is good design? They could have 2x the mantra recharge timer and achieved the same result and still reward intelligent play .

+9999

There’s 4 nerfs anet made to mantras since June patch:
- They removed Empowering Mantras trait, you now have to waste charges to get the same effect.
- They removed the mantra CD trait (Mantra Mastery). I had thought the background recharge was their way of compensating. Guess not.
- Recent change: They reduced Mantra Strength dmg from 4% to 3%
- Recent change: They removed the background recharge that we all though was a feature.

I get the feeling anet only makes changes based on how much people complain in PvP, not considering that some of use don’t do PvP (ahem). e.g., Power Lock has a 5 sec cd while all the other mantras have a 1 or 2 sec cd. I’m guessing that decision was based solely on pvp play.

zerocool.9842:

I get the feeling anet only makes changes based on how much people complain in PvP, not considering that some of use don’t do PvP (ahem)

This is probably correct. Most balancing changes except edge cases (see old Portal nerfs) are based on sPvP, because… well honestly, I doubt anyone knows, in a game where the majority of combat is based on scaling solo to zerg, basing character balance on 5v5 Domination maps is … not a word allowed by the word filter, apparently. :P

Anyhow, as far as nerfing Mantras go: Good.
I hate the concept of Mantras. They feel clunky, they don’t feel mesmer-y at all, they’re stupid as a gameplay element, and really the sooner they’re so useless they can remove them, the better.

My favorite take on what we could conceptually use is still “Illusions” (basically Illusion of Life as a concept). Say an illusion heal heals you to 100% instantly, even through poison, but then drains all of the damage healed that way over the next 10 seconds. It’s just an illusion.
Or Illusion of Power. Gain 5 stacks of “Imaginary Power”, giving you more power, malice, toughness and run speed. Drains 1 stack per second. Continues draining past 5 seconds, giving you “Imaginated Weakness”, reducing your toughness, vitality, healing power and run speed, until you are at 5 stacks of that, then it ends. Both effect should be quite strong.

That’d feel somewhat mesmer-y, at least. :S

Carighan.6758:

zerocool.9842:

I get the feeling anet only makes changes based on how much people complain in PvP, not considering that some of use don’t do PvP (ahem)

This is entirely correct. Most balancing changes except edge cases (see old Portal nerfs) are based on sPvP, because… well honestly, I doubt anyone knows, in a game where the majority of combat is based on scaling solo to zerg, basing character balance on 5v5 Domination maps is … not a word allowed by the word filter, apparently. :P

Anyhow, as far as nerfing Mantras go: Good.
I hate the concept of Mantras. They feel clunky, they don’t feel mesmer-y at all, they’re stupid as a gameplay element, and really the sooner they’re so useless they can remove them, the better.

My favorite take on what we could conceptually use is still “Illusions” (basically Illusion of Life as a concept). Say an illusion heal heals you to 100% instantly, even through poison, but then drains all of the damage healed that way over the next 10 seconds. It’s just an illusion.
Or Illusion of Power. Gain 5 stacks of “Imaginary Power”, giving you more power, malice, toughness and run speed. Drains 1 stack per second. Continues draining past 5 seconds, giving you “Imaginated Weakness”, reducing your toughness, vitality, healing power and run speed, until you are at 5 stacks of that, then it ends. Both effect should be quite strong.

That’d feel somewhat mesmer-y, at least. :S

Amazing concepts, clearly based on “illusion of _” skills from GW1. Which is always a good thing imo. Also, I think that it would fit GW2’s gameplay very nicely.

However, I really dislike the connection to actual illusions doing it, as they’re too squishy. Making them too unreliable.

I suggest to keep the “Mantra” feel to it while combining it with your idea. You activate the mantra and while it’s active (the visual effect is on and you keep repeating it maybe) you have the positive effect. When it ends, you get the negative effect applied.

I think this idea is worth it’s own topic to be honest.

Velimere.7685:

I don’t mind Mantras as they are (albeit clunky). Personally, I would like to see them have a 2-second charge time (which is already easy enough to interrupt) and no between-charge recharge when out of combat (I’m looking at you, Power Lock) to allow for ease of refreshing.

Signet of Restoration used to have separate PvE and PvP values if I’m not mistaken, and I’d much like that for Harmonious Mantras as well. Mesmer damage in PvE is already atrocious, and 5% instead of 3% would go a long way. While I’m at it, I’d also prefer a flat +10% damage bonus from Fragility. My +damage% modifiers shouldn’t depend on other people applying vulnerability for me.

Mantras are once again worthless, actually more worthless than ever before thanks to no recharge reduction. Congrats on effectively re-deleting an entire line of skills from the game after a mere few weeks of viability.