Guild Wars 2

lets nerf everything…every move a mesmer does gives boons to the enemy…mesmer can only have 1 clone and it takes constant etheral dmg lets remove mantras because theres too much “lock down” ability…staff 1 skill doesnt give conditions anymore…

god this whole thing about mesmers being o kitten tupid please stop showing your ignorance and play a mesmer and figure out how to beat them…hmm lets see theres a few things that mesmers cant deal with because no one traits into a bs cc removal build because its useless…we cant remove conditions well…the only thing we can with is on a ridiculous cd…i have an idea lets learn something for once and figure out that mesmers are only as op as you let them be

Jettit.7184:

lets nerf everything…every move a mesmer does gives boons to the enemy…mesmer can only have 1 clone and it takes constant etheral dmg lets remove mantras because theres too much “lock down” ability…staff 1 skill doesnt give conditions anymore…

god this whole thing about mesmers being o kitten tupid please stop showing your ignorance and play a mesmer and figure out how to beat them…hmm lets see theres a few things that mesmers cant deal with because no one traits into a bs cc removal build because its useless…we cant remove conditions well…the only thing we can with is on a ridiculous cd…i have an idea lets learn something for once and figure out that mesmers are only as op as you let them be

if mesmer make his staff rotation corectly, with melandru rune, lemongras , rabid
he will have : 1700 condition damage, 17000 hp /2800 armor / 50 critical chance -65% condition duration
phase retreat – 8 seconds blink
perma vigor -1 dodge /5 seconds
perma retailation -COF
blink /decoy -stun breakers.
He is nearly imposible to kill 1 vs 1, not cause confusion, cause mobility

Yeah let’s nerf mesmer mobility!
I’d also nerf the staff, and yeah, let’s nerf the greatsword. Oh, almost forgot, let’s nerf sword and pistol, they are too powerful.

Scepter is fine.

Jettit.7184:

lets nerf everything…every move a mesmer does gives boons to the enemy…mesmer can only have 1 clone and it takes constant etheral dmg lets remove mantras because theres too much “lock down” ability…staff 1 skill doesnt give conditions anymore…

god this whole thing about mesmers being o kitten tupid please stop showing your ignorance and play a mesmer and figure out how to beat them…hmm lets see theres a few things that mesmers cant deal with because no one traits into a bs cc removal build because its useless…we cant remove conditions well…the only thing we can with is on a ridiculous cd…i have an idea lets learn something for once and figure out that mesmers are only as op as you let them be

are you playing wvwvw?

I agree mesmer are not balanced in WvWvW because Anet does not balance wvwvw.

ok.

tpvp mesmer are balanced. They do not bring condition removal

I agree as a mesmer player. Lets nerf mesmer in WvW so it becomes stupidly kittened as well in spvp, tpvp, dungeons and PvE.

Good thinking.

If your in WvW and roaming looking for 1 vs 1 duels..not doing anything useful or beneficial for your side. WvW is not about 1 vs 1 confrontations. There is no PvP in gw2 that is solely set up for players seeking 1 vs 1. The closest you will get is spvp. In that arena the build your speaking of can be beaten as easily as any other and played to perfection as well as any other. Just say’n.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/If-u-wanna-creat-QQ-nerf-topic/first#post2123329

Is there a skill or trait on the mesmer that someone hasn’t yet requested be nerfed or was nerfed?

yes. dodge not nerfed yet

This is what I’m talking about. More people complain about mesmer than any-other class and the people who play masmers keep trying the horrible excuse that their class is no good in group fights.

Zelulose.8695:

This is what I’m talking about. More people complain about mesmer than any-other class and the people who play masmers keep trying the horrible excuse that their class is no good in group fights.

I’d have to say thief gets many more complaints then mesmer on any given day. That being said. Mesmer is doing more then well. I would be so bold as they are the top dog and have been for a while. a Phantasm Mesmer has just Stupid damage output and can burst my bunker guardian down pretty quickly. Why be a bunker anything if something can, Immobolize, add conditions, and do a bunch of damage all in less then a few seconds. Some mesmer builds are EASY mode because all you have to do is sit back and shatter shatter shatter while you kite and teleport away. I don’t think any mesmer can deny that we have it pretty easy.

Yup Mesmers have it easy mode. I have a dual sword Phantasm build and I beat an engi without weapon switching, and without using iLeap, Riposte, and elite. So basically just 2 utilities, 2 weapon skills, and the autoattack. I was even using all greens masterwork equipment.

Jackums.3496:

Rayya.2591:

Jettit.7184:

lets nerf everything…every move a mesmer does gives boons to the enemy…mesmer can only have 1 clone and it takes constant etheral dmg lets remove mantras because theres too much “lock down” ability…staff 1 skill doesnt give conditions anymore…

god this whole thing about mesmers being o kitten tupid please stop showing your ignorance and play a mesmer and figure out how to beat them…hmm lets see theres a few things that mesmers cant deal with because no one traits into a bs cc removal build because its useless…we cant remove conditions well…the only thing we can with is on a ridiculous cd…i have an idea lets learn something for once and figure out that mesmers are only as op as you let them be

if mesmer make his staff rotation corectly, with melandru rune, lemongras , rabid
he will have : 1700 condition damage, 17000 hp /2800 armor / 50 critical chance -65% condition duration
phase retreat – 8 seconds blink
perma vigor -1 dodge /5 seconds
perma retailation -COF
blink /decoy -stun breakers.
He is nearly imposible to kill 1 vs 1, not cause confusion, cause mobility

Have you ever fought a D/D Ele 1v1? How about a BM regen Ranger? Or a bunker Guardian? Maybe a stealth Thief? Almost every profession has a spec that is “nearly impossible” to kill in a 1v1. Ignorance is bliss when you’re complaining about a profession that you simply don’t want to have to put effort in and L2P in order to defeat.

Necromancer, Engineer, Warrior, Guardian would like to have a word with you Mr Phantasmal Mesmer.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Jackums.3496:

Rayya.2591:

Jettit.7184:

lets nerf everything…every move a mesmer does gives boons to the enemy…mesmer can only have 1 clone and it takes constant etheral dmg lets remove mantras because theres too much “lock down” ability…staff 1 skill doesnt give conditions anymore…

god this whole thing about mesmers being o kitten tupid please stop showing your ignorance and play a mesmer and figure out how to beat them…hmm lets see theres a few things that mesmers cant deal with because no one traits into a bs cc removal build because its useless…we cant remove conditions well…the only thing we can with is on a ridiculous cd…i have an idea lets learn something for once and figure out that mesmers are only as op as you let them be

if mesmer make his staff rotation corectly, with melandru rune, lemongras , rabid
he will have : 1700 condition damage, 17000 hp /2800 armor / 50 critical chance -65% condition duration
phase retreat – 8 seconds blink
perma vigor -1 dodge /5 seconds
perma retailation -COF
blink /decoy -stun breakers.
He is nearly imposible to kill 1 vs 1, not cause confusion, cause mobility

Have you ever fought a D/D Ele 1v1? How about a BM regen Ranger? Or a bunker Guardian? Maybe a stealth Thief? Almost every profession has a spec that is “nearly impossible” to kill in a 1v1. Ignorance is bliss when you’re complaining about a profession that you simply don’t want to have to put effort in and L2P in order to defeat.

Necromancer, Engineer, Warrior, Guardian would like to have a word with you Mr Phantasmal Mesmer.

I’m sorry but Necro AOE conditions can handle phantasms fairly easy especially if the Mesmer has traited for those phantasms to have boons on them… I have a bunker guard that pretty much laughs at Mesmer damage and engineer one of the strongest specs in this game.

Every class can beat every class if it’s played well. Every average player can faceroll a bad player. Also, players of every class might have a bad day, or get lucky in a situation.

If I lose a fight, I try to improve. I don’t go to the forums and cry for nerfs because “it’s obviously so OP because I am the gaming-god and can’t lose normally, so the only explanation is it’s OP”.

I play a Mesmer, and I’ve already wiped the floor with every profession. But I’ve also been floorwiped by every profession myself. And I’ve never even considered calling it OP. Instead, I was thinking about why it happened, and what I could have done better.

Sadly, some people prefer to be lazy/stay bad and run to the forums and cry “OP! NERFFFF!!!!11!!oneeleven!!!!!!” Oh well; can’t be helped.

I am a mesmer myself almost exclusively and wvw all the time and im a bit kitten ed at the nerf. I myself am a shatter/condition damage build almost exclusively staff and noticed how little confusion damage does to players. with my build i use to be able to kill now i cant kill fast enough before they get me. I won’t lie i killed most players ive faced but I think mesmer is a wvw class, it’s what they’re built for or at least used to be.
you can easily tell the difference between a clone and the real thing including the down state. Not to mention mesmers severely under powered down state skills. Personally I don’t know if mesmers were op before but ive got killed by all classes especially ones with condition damage. Now this nerf I get killed by everybody i have no dps and will work on changing my build which i loved to something a little for dps friendly.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Necromancer, Engineer, Warrior, Guardian would like to have a word with you Mr Phantasmal Mesmer.

Ask Teldo.1473 . He won 1v1 tourny. As engi. He roflstomped every phant mesmer he met even me -_-.

So yeeeah…. Wars and guards just sux at duels. Mby wars even need some tweaking.

I don’t watch 1v1 tournaments because they are relatively stupid, but I’m assuming he was pure condition burn burster with Supply drop, right?

Either that or Rifle tank.

Mesmers that complain about nerfs, or bugs have literally no standing with me. As I stated to Jportell

You have the strongest burst in the game that cannot be interrupted or blinded on a 10 second cooldown. You also have invulnerability on a 10 second cooldown. Not to mention that you have practically every tool every other character in the game has such as Stealth or Boon stripping. Even your Phantasmal Mesmer is more effective than a P/P Thief using the same skill.

So as far as I’m concerned, Arenanet could break your other 3 shatters, even ultimately delete half your traits, and I still would consider you mid tier atleast. Until those things are nerfed/fixed, then I can’t take your bugs seriously when I have to look through Warrior/Necro’s glaring problems.

And no, I’m not biased. This is from an objective standpoint, I actually joined this game wanting to main Mesmer, but I couldn’t look the class straight in the face when I realized I was shoved into a tight OP meta build, unable to do anything else. If you want more options, tell Arenanet to nerf you and compensate.

If you don’t want to admit that you could be nerfed, in order to open up more possibilities, then stop complaining please. Because right now, Mesmers don’t have anything to complain about.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

And no, I’m not biased.

Nope, clearly not. You just think the class you main (Necromancer) is the most important. No questions asked. I agree that it has more severe bugs that need to be fixed (see topic in PVP forum), but you’re a bit too egocentric.

Iruwen.3164:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

And no, I’m not biased.

Nope, clearly not. You just think the class you main (Necromancer) is the most important. No questions asked. I agree that it has more severe bugs that need to be fixed (see topic in PVP forum), but you’re a bit too egocentric.

No, actually I think Warrior is the most important, Elementalist being the second most important (to open up staff and other possibilities other than the x/D-D/x annoying metas), Thief being third (simply because I want to see something other than the annoying D/X-S/D builds), Necromancer/Engineer being the fourth/fifth. Next time, please read the entire context.

I’ll let you in on a little secret: If you ever talked to me ingame, you would know that I don’t support the constant whining about Necromancer in the forums. From my experiences, in my eyes, Necromancers are perfectly fine, albeit buggy. We’re certainly not as blatantly strong as Mesmer, but we’re not bad. I’ll often support getting buffs, despite the fact that I don’t think we need them. Again, we need bug fixes, we have problems, but otherwise we’re strong. The only class that deserves to whine is Warrior.

Okay, I know you’re actually playing several classes. I sometimes stumble over things like "Mesmers that complain about nerfs, or bugs have literally no standing with me" because for me as a PvE player who doesn’t really care about PvP, I hate when PvE is nerfed instead of splitting things for PvP plus stuff like clones and mirror blade targeting critters is way more important to me, so I have a good reason to ask for fixing these things.
I also don’t have a problem with mesmers being toned down (in PvP, don’t touch PvE) if the worst bugs are fixed in return. I can only stress how flawed it is to base balancing on skills that are broken to begin with. Fixed bug = broken balancing.

Here’s the issue with nerfs, Altroll. You speak of opening possibilities, but these random-arsed nerfs limit possibilities. For example, how many Condition Mesmers did you run into in PvP? You used to see a lot in WvW, but now that’s dwindled to a small fraction. The problem is, they nerf (Aspect “X”) of (Class “Y”), but they don’t slot in (Possibility “Z”) in exchange.
If we honestly want to see something other than: Phantasm/Shatter/Immortal Mesmers being truly viable, then we need to do the following:
-Fix bugged skills/weapons
-Figure a fair restructuring of Traits/lesser-used Abilities
-Test the changes in question before releasing them into the wild.

Now, if these three things were done, consistently, then it’d be fair to discuss “nerfing” Mesmers overall. As it is now, their nerfs merely push more Mesmers into the “OP”
meta-builds.

I’d rather see Mind Wrack, Blurred Frenzy, and Phantasmal Duelist nerfed so they’re not god tier anymore. Then we can actually see what we’re working with underneath the nonsense.

Anyhow, I have used condition based Mesmer in PvP before, it’s actually good. Just wouldn’t seem that way going from Shatter/Phantasmal to it since you’re not nuking someone in a quarter of a second. Confusion is REALLY strong, because it literally makes channeled skills kill you, which is a direct counter for power Necromancers and alot of Guardian builds.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

I’d rather see Mind Wrack, Blurred Frenzy, and Phantasmal Duelist nerfed so they’re not god tier anymore. Then we can actually see what we’re working with underneath the nonsense.

hmmmmmmm. so basically, you are nerfing the few skills on a mesmer that actually does enough damage to be a threat?

Nerfing these skills will literately change the whole class to be viable for pvp.

I actually wonder about blurred frenzy. I guess anet messed along the way and realize mesmer is too squishy so they added invul to it.

The sarcasm is strong in this thread.

Mesmer was never squishy even before S/P wasn’t the meta. People just lost skill, I suppose.

Nerfing those 3 things will not break Mesmer, as most overly dramatic people suggest. It would just make it harder to insta gank an entire team with 2 shatter Mesmers. Those 3 things are blatantly overpowered, and that still wouldn’t remove all of the team support Mesmers have (Which they were originally brought in for on most teams)

Don’t you touch my blurred frenzy !

TheMightyAltroll. It’s even in his name. —->Troll<—-. And not just some random one… it’s a mighty one. That actually explains a lot.

I’m seriously getting tired of people crying for nerfs based on pseudo-facts. But I’m quite sure that wouldn’t even stop if they would remove all Mesmer weapons, skills, utilites, elites and also traits… except scepter autoattack. Nerf scepter autoattack; it’s OP!!! I wouldn’t be surprised. I’d be surprised if it wouldn’t happen, lol.

Saturn.6591:

TheMightyAltroll. It’s even in his name. —->Troll<—-. And not just some random one… it’s a mighty one. That actually explains a lot.

I’m seriously getting tired of people crying for nerfs based on pseudo-facts. But I’m quite sure that wouldn’t even stop if they would remove all Mesmer weapons, skills, utilites, elites and also traits… except scepter autoattack. Nerf scepter autoattack; it’s OP!!! I wouldn’t be surprised. I’d be surprised if it wouldn’t happen, lol.

• Fact: You have the strongest burst in the game on a 10 second cooldown.

• Another fact: Said burst is the only one in the game that cannot be interrupted, or blinded.

• Another fact: Said burst is AoE

• Fact: Phantasmal Duelist uses Thief P/P Unload

• Another fact: Phantasmal Duelist is more effective than Thief P/P Unload

• Another fact: Phantasmal Duelist has a 100% combo finisher chance, which is more than Thief unload.

Please, tell me why I should care about Mesmer when they can do that? Mesmer needs to be nerfed before I could imagine their other skills/weapons/traits being buffed.

^Condition mesmer WAS good in PvP.. Now it is… :/ We no longer get any buffs from our WOC which is the main source of conditions for a condi damage mesmer… Confusion is only REALLY strong (i did nothing but confusion mes for about a month in PvP) if the mesmer specs for nothing and i mean nothing else. No IOL/Portal/null field… They only get condi removal through the traited torch. Mesmer confusion lasts half as long as engi confusion with similar traiting for condition duration.
Phantasmal duelist can have half of its damage completely negated with one dodge making you take 2-3k damage IF THAT. Confusion only has effects on certain channel skills like ele in tornado whether this is intended or not they have not commented on if it is intended I understand why. if not then by all means fix it. But we need to see something that makes a confusion mesmer build be on par with say a necro bleeder build which can stack bleeds very quickly.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

• Fact: You have the strongest burst in the game on a 10 second cooldown.

Wrong. Warriors and Thieves burst for much more. Also with a shorter cooldown than 10 seconds.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

• Another fact: Said burst is the only one in the game that cannot be interrupted, or blinded.

It’s also the only one that can be killed. And you can still dodge it. Sometimes you can even outrun it. Another possibility would be blocking it. Actually, there’s so many things you can do.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

• Another fact: Said burst is AoE

We’re not the only class with AoE-burst. Actually, our AoE is quite unreliable since clones often end up getting killed before they shatter in situations where AoE makes a difference.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

• Fact: Phantasmal Duelist uses Thief P/P Unload

So what.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

• Another fact: Phantasmal Duelist is more effective than Thief P/P Unload

Fix Thief Unload then. Though, one might argue that a Thief doesn’t die if you sneeze at him, unless he’s a glasscannon… but even then he can still dodge. Oh, and of course Thieves can use Unload much more frequently than phantasms do.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

• Another fact: Phantasmal Duelist has a 100% combo finisher chance, which is more than Thief unload.

Only when traited. And I think that’s probably a bug.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Please, tell me why I should care about Mesmer when they can do that? Mesmer needs to be nerfed before I could imagine their other skills/weapons/traits being buffed.

As it is right now, we’ve got a bunch of useless traits. We also got 2 weapons that are only useful in very few situations, if at all. On top of that, there’s a weapon which is plagued by bugs currently and thus not nearly as useful as it’s supposed to be. And then… if you look back a few months, Mesmers got MANY nerfs since then. Funny fact: Back then, Mesmers weren’t considered OP. Since they got nerfed so many times, people began to think that they must be OP just for being Mesmers, so they come to the forums and cry for nerfs for some randomly chosen skill that Mesmers can use. That’s pretty much the only logical explanation for it.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Saturn.6591:

TheMightyAltroll. It’s even in his name. —->Troll<—-. And not just some random one… it’s a mighty one. That actually explains a lot.

I’m seriously getting tired of people crying for nerfs based on pseudo-facts. But I’m quite sure that wouldn’t even stop if they would remove all Mesmer weapons, skills, utilites, elites and also traits… except scepter autoattack. Nerf scepter autoattack; it’s OP!!! I wouldn’t be surprised. I’d be surprised if it wouldn’t happen, lol.

• Fact: You have the strongest burst in the game on a 10 second cooldown.

• Another fact: Said burst is the only one in the game that cannot be interrupted, or blinded.

• Another fact: Said burst is AoE

• Fact: Phantasmal Duelist uses Thief P/P Unload

• Another fact: Phantasmal Duelist is more effective than Thief P/P Unload

• Another fact: Phantasmal Duelist has a 100% combo finisher chance, which is more than Thief unload.

Please, tell me why I should care about Mesmer when they can do that? Mesmer needs to be nerfed before I could imagine their other skills/weapons/traits being buffed.

Non-fact. Proper burst for a mesmer is preceded by diversion to stack vulnerability this is on a 40ish second cooldown.
Non-fact it is not the strongest burst in the game considering that thief post mug nerf still hits harder than any mesmer burst. Also it is on a 4s cool down plus have you seen any other classes AA compared to say mesmer sword AA… it kinda sucks… zerker mes AA sword will hit for 700 damage per strike maybe.. Thief sword is a cleave that hits harder even if they have less attk power.
Said Burst is small AoE with maybe 200 range of its intended target meaning you have to be all in your teammates junk to feel a burst that is directed at him.

Phantasmal duelist may use thief P/P unload and side by side both skills are equally effective only reason there is no P/P thieves running around is the complete lack of stealth and mobility in that weaponset… even if thieves were running P/P they are more damaging that iDuelist simply thanks to initiative allowing thief p/p to be spammable.

The combo finisher may or may not be a bug.. They adjusted this trait not long ago to make it do the damage that it should (previously pDuelist trait DECREASED the damage of the skill pretty sweet right?!)

Final Fact rarely will mesmers actually take this trait to make this skill a combo finisher… and why is that? If they do this they can no longer take domination VII to remove boons when shatters hit which is the only decent way mesmers can deal with boon heavy bunkers such as guards/eles/bm rangers considering how ridiculously long the cooldown is for null field.

Saturn.6591:

Wrong. Warriors and Thieves burst for much more. Also with a shorter cooldown than 10 seconds.

Are you seriously comparing a Shatter Mesmer to a hundred blade Warrior? No. Mesmers can do far more damage than even a backstab Thief with a full Blurred-Frenzy Mindwrack.

Saturn.6591:

It’s also the only one that can be killed. And you can still dodge it. Sometimes you can even outrun it. Another possibility would be blocking it. Actually, there’s so many things you can do.

I don’t know about you, but I can kill a Thief burst pretty well by killing the Thief.

Oh yes, dodging while trapped inside a S/P leap Blurred Frenzy, Daze, Mindwrack shatter. Please, tell me more.

Oh deary me, that leaves Blocking and Invulnerability, which some classes don’t have. So what you’re telling me is, I had better be a Guardian or I’m SOL?

Saturn.6591:

We’re not the only class with AoE-burst. Actually, our AoE is quite unreliable since clones often end up getting killed before they shatter in situations where AoE makes a difference.

Oh right, I forgot, there are other classes that crit 12k+ AoE 10 second CD. My bad.

Saturn.6591:

So what.

So what? What if my Flesh Golem used 100 blades? What if my Flesh Wurm used unload? What if my Blood Fiend could spam Guardian shields?

Saturn.6591:

Fix Thief Unload then. Though, one might argue that a Thief doesn’t die if you sneeze at him, unless he’s a glasscannon… but even then he can still dodge. Oh, and of course Thieves can use Unload much more frequently than phantasms do.

Actually that’s wrong on all accounts. I have seen Phantasmal Duelists that are actually harder to kill than P/P Thieves. Guess what, Thieves can’t constantly spawn more unloading Thief clones either. Nor can they go invulnerable every 10 seconds.

Saturn.6591:

Only when traited. And I think that’s probably a bug

“Only when traited”? That’s actually your answer?

sarcasm I can regenerate 5,000 health per second, but it’s fine because I have to trait for it. sarcasm

Saturn.6591:

As it is right now, we’ve got a bunch of useless traits. We also got 2 weapons that are only useful in very few situations, if at all.

Cry me a river. Go look at Ele, or Necro, or Warrior, or even Thief, and they aren’t even god tier.

Saturn.6591:

On top of that, there’s a weapon which is plagued by bugs currently and thus not nearly as useful as it’s supposed to be.

Saturn.6591:

And then… if you look back a few months, Mesmers got MANY nerfs since then. Funny fact: Back then, Mesmers weren’t considered OP. Since they got nerfed so many times, people began to think that they must be OP just for being Mesmers, so they come to the forums and cry for nerfs for some randomly chosen skill that Mesmers can use. That’s pretty much the only logical explanation for it.

IT MAKES SO MUCH SENSE!

Only it doesn’t.

If that’s your excuse and way of justifying it, then you can believe it. Because no one else does. Nothing is nerfed without needing it. Necromancer needed it in the beta, but we received no compensation. We were nerfed harder than you could even imagine, Mesmer.

jportell.2197:

Non-fact. Proper burst for a mesmer is preceded by diversion to stack vulnerability this is on a 40ish second cooldown.

“Preceded by a diversion to stack vulnerability”

Excuse me? You must be using Mesmer wrong, bro. You do far more damage using a quantity theorem.

jportell.2197:

Non-fact it is not the strongest burst in the game considering that thief post mug nerf still hits harder than any mesmer burst. Also it is on a 4s cool down plus have you seen any other classes AA compared to say mesmer sword AA… it kinda sucks… zerker mes AA sword will hit for 700 damage per strike maybe.. Thief sword is a cleave that hits harder even if they have less attk power.
Said Burst is small AoE with maybe 200 range of its intended target meaning you have to be all in your teammates junk to feel a burst that is directed at him.

You must have never used Thief, bro.

jportell.2197:

Phantasmal duelist may use thief P/P unload and side by side both skills are equally effective only reason there is no P/P thieves running around is the complete lack of stealth and mobility in that weaponset… even if thieves were running P/P they are more damaging that iDuelist simply thanks to initiative allowing thief p/p to be spammable.

Phantasmal Duelist is superior than Thief P/P. Ask any decent Thief. Also, Thieves actually lose potential damage by mindlessly spamming Unload.

jportell.2197:

The combo finisher may or may not be a bug.. They adjusted this trait not long ago to make it do the damage that it should (previously pDuelist trait DECREASED the damage of the skill pretty sweet right?!)

That’s relative, considering I feel like the damage of Phantasmal Duelist should be capped at 1.5k.

jportell.2197:

Final Fact rarely will mesmers actually take this trait to make this skill a combo finisher… and why is that? If they do this they can no longer take domination VII to remove boons when shatters hit which is the only decent way mesmers can deal with boon heavy bunkers such as guards/eles/bm rangers considering how ridiculously long the cooldown is for null field.

Actually, no. There are many decents ways of handling Guardian bunkers. Obviously if you want to trait specifically for killing them, then you’re doing something wrong.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Saturn.6591:

Wrong. Warriors and Thieves burst for much more. Also with a shorter cooldown than 10 seconds.

Are you seriously comparing a Shatter Mesmer to a hundred blade Warrior? No. Mesmers can do far more damage than even a backstab Thief with a full Blurred-Frenzy Mindwrack.

that actually is a really bad comparison. Hunderd Blade =/= mind wreak

A better comparison is Eviscerate f1 adrenline axe skill to mind wreak

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Eviscerate

warrior f1 axe skill is actually one of the strongest single hit in the game. Its not uncommon to crit over 2.5k+ vs tank builds and crit 5-7k vs glass cannons.

Even better, I can spam it every 9 seconds with might stacking from shield blocking.

These number comes from a solider amulet in spvp.

Jackums.3496:

No. The Thief and Warrior possess the “strongest” burst in the game.

No, they actually do not. Again, strongest implies things such as “Difficulty to avoid”. I can literally stop a Thief from doing any sort of damage to me for a very long time on any class. Mesmer’s burst is much harder to avoid, and does literally as much damage as a backstab when performed properly.

Jackums.3496:

It can only be blocked, evaded, negated via invulnerability or stealth, and in the case of the Necro, soaked up entirely by a simple activation of Death Shroud.

Furthermore, it can be made moot almost completely by simply evading Illusionary Leap, cleansing immobilise, or blinking out of range once hit.

That’s completely false, you cannot evade when you are dazed and immobilized, the only way to evade such would be a teleport stunbreaker. Blocking and Invulnerability are both on much higher cooldowns than your burst. Necromancer cannot eat an entire shatter in Deathshroud unless they are built specifically for that, and if the Necromancer DOES manage to eat the burst, he doesn’t have Deathshroud for the rest of the fight, which is a death sentence. The best way for a Necro to negate damage is to Fear interrupt, which does not work since Blurred Frenzy and shatters cannot be interrupted.

Oh, and what class can do that? Mesmer… and Thief? Well done. Evading Illusionary leap can be a bit complicated if you’re not an S/D Thief with unlimited evades.

Jackums.3496:

AoE with a very small radius, being utilised by one of the professions with the least amount of AoE in the game.

Sure, because bombarding a point with multiple Mindwracks won’t hit anyone.

Jackums.3496:

Point being?

The ability to summon another class’ burst skill, nearly twice as effective out of your pocket doesn’t seem off to you? Delusional.

Jackums.3496:

Lacks stealth.
Lacks human intelligence.
Lacks the ability to dodge.
Lacks 10k+ health.
Lacks the ability to move freely.
Etc, etc.

Actually, Phantasmal Duelist will follow, still happens to have considerable amount of toughness and can be respawned quite quickly. And you can infact give it stealth. So here’s a question, if I could summon a Thief out of my pocket to do Unload a few times and go away, does that make it any less overpowered than if I could summon a Warrior to hundred blades and then go away?

Jackums.3496:

Inane argument is inane and irrelevant. See above

Inane argument is inane and irrelevant. See above.

Jackums.3496:

It appears more to be a learn to play issue.

I agree, you should learn to play another class, or another build.

Yeah he is because backstab thief is still more survivable and can keep people busy on a point for a good 3-4 min (mesmer can’t spam stealth despite popular belief) 100B warrior still out damages a mesmer and guess what 100B is still proceeded by a stun/immobilize or any form of CC JUST LIKE MINDWRACK AND BLURRED… its also on a traited 6 second cooldown…
Also D/P thief can guarantee a backstab because #3 skill closes the gap but it doesn’t reveal you unless u allow it to finish… so what you can see (i have seen it done and done it on mobs) is a thief using 5>2 Combo can then hit 3>1 in quick succession and guarantee the backstab will override the damage portion of the 3. There by guaranteeing a thief backstab since d/p #3 is now un blockable for the gap closer (bet you didn’t know that Mr. awesome)

Once again even if the 100% combo finisher on iDuelist is a bug mesmers usually will not take it because they are going to be taking Dom VII to remove boons with shatters.

When he was referencing traits he wasn’t referencing ones that people take because others are just that much better he was referencing traits that were destroyed in the betas completely leaving them as an empty spot in trait trees like pretty much all mesmer GM traits that aren’t in illusions…

Mesmer mindwrack doing a total of 12k AOE all at once.. Please screenshot or it didn’t happen… The absolute highest i have seen it hit was for 2k with the clones and the iPersona meaning a total 8k that is if all the stars align.

Oh and please tell me how it sucks so bad to have 5 meat shields at all times. Oh and also how bad it sucks to have a trait where these meat shields can each take a condition from you every 10 seconds… Which means that you have an effective condition duration on you of 2 seconds (considering you have 5 minions up). Bad AI aside you cannot deny that is freaking sweet. And i guarantee if mesmers had a GM trait passively removed conditions by having our illusions passively take them we would take that trait in a heart beat… Right now we have shattered conditions but it is in a line that has absolutely nothing to do with shatters and everything to do with keeping illusions up however if it was changed to where each illusion up took a condition every 10s we would be all over that it would also open up the possibility of a more proper bunker mesmer because right now the immortal build just doesn’t have condition removal to compete with guardians/necros/BM rangers/Eles or even thieves for that matter. Warriors are only a close second behind mesmers for worst condi removal on account of they still have it in the heal skill and they still have a utility slot guaranteed to remove all skills on activation.

Well, here we are, in another bla bla bla nerf post with some super OP skills. And for what? Nothing, cause after 9 months most skills that you’re crying are still the same.

Maybe there’s a conspiraton from mesmers who have kidnapped game designers, so they cannot listen how mesmers are cruel and they’re enjoying dominating GW.

Just 3 words:

Learn to play.

jportell.2197:

Yeah he is because backstab thief is still more survivable and can keep people busy on a point for a good 3-4 min (mesmer can’t spam stealth despite popular belief) 100B warrior still out damages a mesmer and guess what 100B is still proceeded by a stun/immobilize or any form of CC JUST LIKE MINDWRACK AND BLURRED… its also on a traited 6 second cooldown…

Backstab Thief can keep people busy on a point for a good 3-4 minutes? You have never played Thief. Ever.

Greatsword Warrior doesn’t have invulnerability, daze, and immobilize on short cooldowns. Plus his Hundred blades requires him to be immobile, and it is channeled.

jportell.2197:

Also D/P thief can guarantee a backstab because #3 skill closes the gap but it doesn’t reveal you unless u allow it to finish… so what you can see (i have seen it done and done it on mobs) is a thief using 5>2 Combo can then hit 3>1 in quick succession and guarantee the backstab will override the damage portion of the 3. There by guaranteeing a thief backstab since d/p #3 is now un blockable for the gap closer (bet you didn’t know that Mr. awesome)

There is no “Guaranteed” anything for a Thief, even a facerolling Backstab Thief can be blinded and counter-bursted. Again, you have no idea how to use Thief, or what Thief is capable of.

jportell.2197:

Once again even if the 100% combo finisher on iDuelist is a bug mesmers usually will not take it because they are going to be taking Dom VII to remove boons with shatters.

Because boon removal is so important there isn’t a single build on the planet that can make due without it.

jportell.2197:

When he was referencing traits he wasn’t referencing ones that people take because others are just that much better he was referencing traits that were destroyed in the betas completely leaving them as an empty spot in trait trees like pretty much all mesmer GM traits that aren’t in illusions…

Cry me a river.

jportell.2197:

Mesmer mindwrack doing a total of 12k AOE all at once.. Please screenshot or it didn’t happen… The absolute highest i have seen it hit was for 2k with the clones and the iPersona meaning a total 8k that is if all the stars align.

Depending on how much toughness your opponent has. My glass Necromancer ate a 14k shatter once. Well, technically my Necromancer isn’t glassy since it has alot of blind, and an interrupt. But you know, Mind Wrack can’t be interrupted or blinded.

jportell.2197:

Oh and please tell me how it sucks so bad to have 5 meat shields at all times. Oh and also how bad it sucks to have a trait where these meat shields can each take a condition from you every 10 seconds… Which means that you have an effective condition duration on you of 2 seconds (considering you have 5 minions up). Bad AI aside you cannot deny that is freaking sweet.

I don’t know, maybe you should tell me what it’s like to take all of them away in a single shatter. Or actually be viable.

jportell.2197:

And i guarantee if mesmers had a GM trait passively removed conditions by having our illusions passively take them we would take that trait in a heart beat… Right now we have shattered conditions but it is in a line that has absolutely nothing to do with shatters and everything to do with keeping illusions up however if it was changed to where each illusion up took a condition every 10s we would be all over that it would also open up the possibility of a more proper bunker mesmer because right now the immortal build just doesn’t have condition removal to compete with guardians/necros/BM rangers/Eles or even thieves for that matter

I’m so sorry you aren’t invincible. Truly I am. But atleast you can resummon those pets every few seconds and go invulnerable. That’s a plus. But you’re then going to tell me how that’s a negative. Then you’re going to explain to me why Minionmancers are chosen for every high level tournament team.

jportell.2197:

Warriors are only a close second behind mesmers for worst condi removal on account of they still have it in the heal skill and they still have a utility slot guaranteed to remove all skills on activation.

Right, Mesmers are so awful. We should buff them immediately. I mean, right now the only way to hard counter them would be an HGH Engineer. We can’t have that.

Counters to mesmers. BM ranger with a cat pet (lots of bleeds)

Any form of necromancer (still i really don’t get how you have such a hard time against mesmer) Especially minon mancers since clone on dodge aggros to the closest target which with a minion necro is rarely ever the actual player. The only hard counter we have to minion necros is Moa but the long CD for it makes it not the best thing for team play.
HGH engi. Whoever says this build doesn’t have good burst is full of it… They can throw two grenade skills and mesmer down in <3 seconds. This build needs dealt with strictly because it stacks might better than any other build in this game… This is either because of the duration on HGH or the ability to stack up might runes leading to a 100% uptime on at least 15 stacks of might then spiking it to 25 (i have done and seen it!)

Certain meditation guardian builds (Why?) High uptime on burning which mesmers cannot get rid of easily.

Other well played mesmers

Non-Glass thieves… Why? Non-glass thieves can still out damage most mesmer builds.

jportell.2197:

Counters to mesmers. BM ranger with a cat pet (lots of bleeds)

Overpowered to beat overpowered, nice.

jportell.2197:

Any form of necromancer (still i really don’t get how you have such a hard time against mesmer) Especially minon mancers since clone on dodge aggros to the closest target which with a minion necro is rarely ever the actual player. The only hard counter we have to minion necros is Moa but the long CD for it makes it not the best thing for team play.

That’s completely false. Only terrormancers deal decent damage to Mesmers, and only if the Mesmer is completely brainless. Minionmancers are terrible against Mesmers because if you’re smart, you’ll realize that the Minions have dumb AI, and will simply follow you to the end, so all you have to do, is burst the Minions with your Blurred Frenzy/Mindwrack combo, and his Minions suddenly are on a huge cooldown, and then you can focus him with your burst again in 10 seconds. Your “hard counter” to Minionmancers is Mindwrack and Blurred Frenzy.

jportell.2197:

HGH engi. Whoever says this build doesn’t have good burst is full of it… They can throw two grenade skills and mesmer down in <3 seconds. This build needs dealt with strictly because it stacks might better than any other build in this game… This is either because of the duration on HGH or the ability to stack up might runes leading to a 100% uptime on at least 15 stacks of might then spiking it to 25 (i have done and seen it!)

No one ever denied HGH Engineer having strong burst. But no good Mesmer will ever be downed in 3 seconds. Also, hilarious, you’re against Mesmer being nerfed but you’re QQing about Engineer. Well guess what buddy, I don’t have any problem killing Engineers, because as a Necro, I can blind and corrupt him. So if you don’t want to admit that you need to be nerfed, I won’t admit that Engineer needs to be nerfed. Because at the moment, I specifically recruit HGH Engineers to kill Mesmers in my premades.

jportell.2197:

Certain meditation guardian builds (Why?) High uptime on burning which mesmers cannot get rid of easily.

Gee willickers, perhaps you should learn the ‘staggered’ burst stratagem.

jportell.2197:

Other well played mesmers

kitten .

jportell.2197:

Non-Glass thieves… Why? Non-glass thieves can still out damage most mesmer builds.

lol

^Seriously do you have nothing to do but go to every forum in this game and tell people that are asking for their profession to be fixed they have no basis to ask for it to be fixed because you play a necro and because apparently you are no good on necro since they are all overpowered and you need massive buffs to make your class work.

Noone has asked for massive buffs for their class except warrior and necro… Mesmers just want their game breaking bugs that are ruining weapons/traits/builds and limiting the diversity of that class fixed… Whats funny is those blinds you talk about using to screw over an HGH engi can also be used to stop a mesmer from summoning phantasms…..

Do you honestly have nothing better to do then go to all class forums and tell them “Stop QQing asking for buffs (when really they just want bug fixes) and just be happy you aren’t a necro because i play necro and am the necro god and I know that necros just cannot beat mesmers/thieves etc. therefore they need more nerfs”

jportell.2197:

^Seriously do you have nothing to do but go to every forum in this game and tell people that are asking for their profession to be fixed they have no basis to ask for it to be fixed because you play a necro and because apparently you are no good on necro since they are all overpowered and you need massive buffs to make your class work.

I never asked for any buffs, I only asked for fixes. Considering we are actually a low tier class, I suppose that’s reasonable. However I mostly was asking for fixes for Warrior. Speaking of which, I haven’t denied any class except Mesmer/Ranger their bug fixes. I simply do NOT want to see Mesmers any stronger, even if it means fixing their bugs. Once they are brought down to our level, then we can talk about fixing/improving them.

jportell.2197:

Noone has asked for massive buffs for their class except warrior and necro… Mesmers just want their game breaking bugs that are ruining weapons/traits/builds and limiting the diversity of that class fixed… Whats funny is those blinds you talk about using to screw over an HGH engi can also be used to stop a mesmer from summoning phantasms…..

See above, and: Phantasms are Phantasms, I’m speaking of Shatters, the strongest burst in the game that cannot be interrupted or blinded. HGH Engineer’s burst can be interrupted, and blinded.

jportell.2197:

Do you honestly have nothing better to do then go to all class forums and tell them “Stop QQing asking for buffs (when really they just want bug fixes) and just be happy you aren’t a necro because i play necro and am the necro god and I know that necros just cannot be mesmers/thieves etc. therefore they need more nerfs”

Once again, see above. I play all classes, I want to see all classes fixed, Mesmer simply needs to be nerfed before it can be fixed, same thing with Ranger.

Shatters can still be blinded/dodged… I have also had necros that used DS to eat up an entire burst and they came out with full health still.

jportell.2197:

Shatters can still be blinded/dodged… I have also had necros that used DS to eat up an entire burst and they came out with full health still.

Shatters cannot be Blinded due to Blurred Frenzy, and again, unless you’re an S/D Thief with unlimited evades, dodging is ineffective. As for the Necro, you’re obviously not using Mesmer correctly or he was Deathshroud based, in which case you should still be able to win the match based on the fact that he just wasted his Deathshroud.

As of right now I feel ranger, necromancer, Thief and ele, and engi are balanced just based on the variety their builds hold and the lack of cheep damage that is much too high to defend against withing a short time span. Thief stelath may be annoying but by far, they are not Op. The mesmer needs toning down with damage but otherwise are balanced and the warrior needs buffing. Gurdians are perfectly balanced in team fights only. Gw2 is almost balanced in my oppinion just not quite there.

PvP Balancing list:

• Overpowered
  Mesmer
  Ranger

• Strong
  Engineer

• Balanced
  Guardian

• Meh
  Necromancer
  Elementalist
  Thief

• Underpowered
  Warrior

Of course this varies with build, being that D/P and S/D Thieves would be on the strong side, their other capabilities/team utilities are quite crap. Guardians are the shining example of balance, and are quite perfect the way they are. All classes should be raised/lowered based on the Guardian.

Zelulose.8695:

As of right now I feel ranger, necromancer, Thief and ele, and engi are balanced just based on the variety their builds hold and the lack of cheep damage that is much too high to defend against withing a short time span. Thief stelath may be annoying but by far, they are not Op. The mesmer needs toning down with damage but otherwise are balanced and the warrior needs buffing. Gurdians are perfectly balanced in team fights only. Gw2 is almost balanced in my oppinion just not quite there.

^From the person that said the bleeds from phantasms are OP… Then played his “AMAZING Phantasm build” against a fairly well known mesmer and played just horribly to the point of we honestly though if he was trying or not… if he is using his level of play for justifying calling for anything being toned down i would hope the devs take that suggestion with a very large grain of salt.

jportell.2197:

Zelulose.8695:

As of right now I feel ranger, necromancer, Thief and ele, and engi are balanced just based on the variety their builds hold and the lack of cheep damage that is much too high to defend against withing a short time span. Thief stelath may be annoying but by far, they are not Op. The mesmer needs toning down with damage but otherwise are balanced and the warrior needs buffing. Gurdians are perfectly balanced in team fights only. Gw2 is almost balanced in my oppinion just not quite there.

^From the person that said the bleeds from phantasms are OP… Then played his “AMAZING Phantasm build” against a fairly well known mesmer and played just horribly to the point of we honestly though if he was trying or not… if he is using his level of play for justifying calling for anything being toned down i would hope the devs take that suggestion with a very large grain of salt.

Putting me down is not the way to prove your point

Also I was showing damage I wanted to show how fast hp could be lost when you have high toughness and fairly high hp. Skill was not the point of that video displaying mesmer damage was. (note: That mesmer dropped the hp fast with boons like protection and regeneration and further more, look at the CD on my heal skill due to daze I barely even had a second to actually heal it for say 5k+ after it dropped to 13k/18khp) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k99BKVpBxXQ

Zelulose.8695:

jportell.2197:

Zelulose.8695:

As of right now I feel ranger, necromancer, Thief and ele, and engi are balanced just based on the variety their builds hold and the lack of cheep damage that is much too high to defend against withing a short time span. Thief stelath may be annoying but by far, they are not Op. The mesmer needs toning down with damage but otherwise are balanced and the warrior needs buffing. Gurdians are perfectly balanced in team fights only. Gw2 is almost balanced in my oppinion just not quite there.

^From the person that said the bleeds from phantasms are OP… Then played his “AMAZING Phantasm build” against a fairly well known mesmer and played just horribly to the point of we honestly though if he was trying or not… if he is using his level of play for justifying calling for anything being toned down i would hope the devs take that suggestion with a very large grain of salt.

Putting me down is not the way to prove your point

Also I was showing damage I wanted to show how fast hp could be lost when you have high toughness and fairly high hp. Skill was not the point of that video displaying mesmer damage was. (note: That mesmer dropped the hp fast with boons like protection and regeneration and further more, look at the CD on my heal skill due to daze I barely even had a second to actually heal it for say 5k+ after it dropped to 13k/18khp) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k99BKVpBxXQ

Because you didn’t charge your mantras before you started the fight… you also had a fight with no stun breakers… Having high toughness is meaningless if you are gonna still just sit there and take it. My anti condition bunker guard still dodges attacks even with 3400 armor total.

Jackums.3496:

It’s clearly a learn to play issue. TheMightyAltroll is the perfect example of a sub-par player that often loses to “x profession” in some form of PvP (sPvP/WvW), then comes to the forums and cries so that ANet will fix his/her problems him/her.

No competitive PvP player would call a Mesmer over-powered, especially when such claims are based on a burst combo that’s been around almost since the beginning of the game and is painfully easy to evade and/or negate. It’s laughable.

As for lists, take a look at what the majority opinion is:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/sPvP-Class-Tier-List/first

Further indication that it’s an issue with personal play skill and not actual facts. Basically, “cry me a river”. People like this are best ignored. I suggest the rest of you do the same.

I have looked at your posts. Literally 94% of your posts all include the words “Learn to play issue” So since we’re going to focus on personal attacks, rather than facts now apparently, allow me to reiterate.

You have literally not stated any facts, or even attempted to counter any of my arguments. If anything is sub par, it’s your attitude.

You only know a single class. I play all of them. My balance is based on Guardian and is unbiased, yours is based on Mesmer and quite biased. Any high level player that has had to fight a premade cored around Mesmers knows how devastating they can be. Perhaps you, sir, should learn to play.

I have explained and demonstrated my point, until you can grow up and prove irrefutably that Mesmers are UP or balanced, then I shall consider anything you say from here on out to be irrelevant.