Guild Wars 2

In playing around with MtD I found myself leaning ever further towards wanting to be able to hold a point against multiple attackers, without relying on stealth to do so. This build aims to find a balance between armor & HPs, as well as providing lots of Protection while still maintaining decent AoE condition pressure.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNArfWl0npTtNqxENcrNytBdyZ8CUHkikySGggB-TJhHwAPLDA4UAE4JAIc/BA

Obviously many things are personal preference, but you get the gist of it. Although Ether Feast would be overall better for healing, I like the Mantra for the 4x Condie Cleanse, and since I have room for Mantra Mastery it gets an 8s CD to boot. The MoP is there mainly for healing support of course.

It features over 2k Toughness with 17k HPs, 236 HP AoE Regens from Phants, and almost 2.8k heals from Restaurative Mantras. With the Forge Runes you get a lot of added Protection as well as an AoE burn once you hit 50% health.

I take MI in all my MtD builds, because you just never have enough clones. ;-) I also kept the Torch in there, because it’s a nice way to start a fight, the Phantasm works well in this build, and TP is also a nice desperation getaway to re-charge Mantras & heal.

This build has been working out very nicely for me. The survivability is quite strong, often even against 2-3 attackers, and you put out respectable AoE condition pressure against them thanks to MtD & Geomancy Sigils, and despite having just 950 Condition Damage.

Although this certainly does trade damage for survivability/support, I do feel the build is fun and effective offensively as well, which is more then I can say for most Bunker Mesmer builds I’ve played.

Two stealth skills for a bunkler – No no.
Playing both shatter and bunker – No synergy. It’s like playing 2 4 0 5 3 and shattering your buffed up phantasms.

While this is definitely condi-support (and very interesting) I wouldn’t exactly call this a bunker..

In fact, this looks more like a build that would not sit on a alone point very long and would be joining whatever teamfights are happening. I can see the stealth working for Mantra charges, but I don’t think you really need the torch. I’d recommend Pistol for the offhand to beef up your damage a bit. Decoy and mantra heals should be enough defense.

Definitely an interesting mix though, would like to see a video if possible?

Well depends on your definition of Bunker I guess, but as far as Mesmers go it’s got high survivability through armor, prot, healing, and regen. I don’t need to rely on stealth all that much, just as a last ditch effort to get back into a fight…usually in 2v1s or worse odds.

Going Pistol wouldn’t help much, because the build has low crit chance. The iMage is pretty much the only Phantasm to work about as normal without crit chance, and TP is nice for both offense and defense.

I can hold out pretty well on a point, but yeah bunker is probably a bit exaggerated when compared to other true bunker profession/build combos. ;-)

You can still get surprisingly decent damage output from mad torment & confusion stacking, and I’m able to last on point longer, w/o using stealth, then any build I’ve played in recent memory.

Sorry, no vids as I have no capture software.

It’s pretty straight forward though, you just shatter like a mad man at close range, and do everything you can to stay alive. ;-) You can use PR, F3, and F4 to get Mantra recharges/heals off without resorting to stealth, and just keep banging illusions in their face to get those Torment stacks, while simultaneously unloading MoP so you can re-charge.

Thieves especially hate this build. They can’t reset a fight like they’re used to doing, every time they stealth I get back at least 2.9k health, and they can’t burst me down that fast either due to the tough/prot, decent health, and regen/heals. And of course they hate Torment. ;-)

I’m also doing pretty good against the other professions in 1v1, including Necros and Eng, although Elementalists tend to be a stale mate. Guards sometimes take a while, but I haven’t run into any really good ones yet…and Warriors just tend to melt. (And so do most Mesmers, usually anyway…good ones are tough, especially good P-Shatter Mesmers can sometimes overwhelm my healing, especially if they time interrupts well to stop my Mantra recharging.)

Windwalker.7421:

Well depends on your definition of Bunker I guess, but as far as Mesmers go it’s got high survivability through armor, prot, healing, and regen. I don’t need to rely on stealth all that much, just as a last ditch effort to get back into a fight…usually in 2v1s or worse odds.

In WvW, a bunker can be something that’s difficult to kill. This build is supposedly designed for PvP though, and the definition of a bunker in PvP is far more limited. A PvP bunker is a build able to effectively hold a point.

This build has multiple stealth skills and no access to stability. This makes it not a bunker. You also have extremely limited sustain and condition removal. Mantras are strong while they last…but the aforementioned lack of stability is going to make recharging them for continued sustain and more condition removal nearly impossible in a big fight.

There’s a key reason why this build ultimately isn’t effective at much of anything when facing competent opponents though. You have absolutely zero mobility. Lets think about the ramifications of that.

The build isn’t suited for bunkering on mid as already discussed. This means you’re looking to bunker a side point against a thief or something. Unfortunately, sitting on a side point all game is a fantastic way to leave your team in a 5v4 as the thief ignores far and just ganks people at mid. So, you waddle your way to mid to go help out. Once you get there, the thief uses shadowstep and a couple shortbow 5s to decap far…then come back to mid before you’ve even noticed that they’re gone.

Side point bunkers only work if you have the mobility to roam. You need to be able to be at multiple places rapidly, picking the best place to settle down momentarily and then moving on as the situation changes. This build has no mobility and so is absolutely hardcountered by even 1 person on the other team being capable of rotating.

I don’t really waddle anywhere, you can swap in focus to move from point to point. This is a fundamental weakness of the Mesmer, we all know this. This weakness severely limits your build options, so you either learn to put up with swapping in Focus for OOC mobility, or you play the usual meta builds, none of which can face tank like this build can.

You do lack in combat mobility outside of PR, but that’s a price you pay for being able to stand up on point w/o relying on stealth. You can also leave Focus equipped if you wish, it’s not going to make a huge difference in damage output as you mostly rely on shatters anyway.

As I said, the Torch and many other minor choices in the build, are simply a preference thing. If you end up needing more Condie Removal, which so far has very rarely been the case for me, then you swap MoP for MoResolve. (Or AT, NF)

• The point of the build is to show how MtD can be used along with a heavily armored, high heal, high regen, Settlers Amulet build that still has significant AoE killing power.

Maybe it’s not as effective as the current metas in TPvP, and it doesn’t provide a new role for the Mesmer in TPvP either (lol), and I never claimed that this was the aim of the build. It is what it is, an extremely tough build to face 1v1 and 2v1, and quite impressive even 3v1 against lesser opponents. This does allow you to hold or contest points better then most other Mesmer builds.

At 2v1 or worse odds, it doesn’t even matter if you lose the point because you finally had to stealth to re-charge Mantras & heal up, by your own statement you’re keeping multiple enemies occupied. This is why I chose the Torch & Decoy, to keep those 2-3 enemies tied up for as long as possible, and quite often it involves downing 1 or even 2 of them, because the Torment just keeps on coming.

Lacking stability is also a fundamental weakness of the Mesmer class, not much point in lamenting that you don’t have it. This is a Mesmer bunker(ish) build, not a “OMG Mesmer replaces Guardian as bunker in TPvP!” build.

It’s simply a fun build to play, because it is quite effective and very contrary to what people expect of a Mesmer. (Especially Thieves & LB Rangers)

Windwalker.7421:

I don’t really waddle anywhere, you can swap in focus to move from point to point. This is a fundamental weakness of the Mesmer, we all know this. This weakness severely limits your build options, so you either learn to put up with swapping in Focus for OOC mobility, or you play the usual meta builds, none of which can face tank like this build can.

So…we’re talking about hotjoin then? You can’t swap weapons in tPvP. A build working in hotjoin has less than zero bearing on whether or not it’s even remotely viable for anything approaching competitive PvP with competent players. You can run anything in hotjoin and make it work simply because of the nature of hotjoin.

Honestly, I hate to say this but…everything you’ve said is now called into question because it seems that you’ve only used this build in hotjoin. Until you’ve actually used this in competitive tournament matches and had it work against competent opponents (not down in the 50% or whatever) accolades of how well it works in practice simply must be disregarded.

I suppose you could say that this build isn’t designed to be used in tPvP…but the universal response to that is ‘then why are we bothering with it?’. I guess there’s still value in a build for the sake of a build, but it certainly helps if you can point out concrete applications of where it can actually be used outside of a barely existing/supported game type.

More myopic remarks that have no place in this thread except for to derail it. If you don’t enjoy builds for the sake of the different play-styles they enable, then just don’t play it. The fact is, the MtD boost has opened new possibilities for builds, and I’m exploring them and sharing my results.

I happen to play primarily hot-join sPvP, which I’ve mentioned countless times in the builds I post. The fact that you think this makes me, this build, and all people who play hot-joins irrelevant and unworthy of discussion on this board, speaks volumes about your character, you own insecurities, and your level of maturity.

I hold enough of the intelligence of the community here to understand what this build is for, and that it was not meant to be a meta holy grail build for high-level organized group PvP. I do not belong to that group of people, and I venture to say very few people here do, but I still enjoy the game, the Mesmer profession, and yes hot-join sPvP too! Is that OK with you?

I don’t know how much more clear I could have made it that this, and most builds I post, are not meant for tPvP or other highly organized group PvP where each profession has a well defined role and usually a meta build to go with it. Redefining a professions role in GvG is going to take far more then a new build.

So you can go ahead and bash every single build people post here for the past year or so, and probably the next year two, and feel great about yourself in pointing out the oh so very obvious fact that they are not metas and will not replace any metas, or you can pull your head out and realize that perhaps we all aren’t as dumb as you think, but rather are playing a different game for different reasons/enjoyments then perhaps you are.

You sir, are missing the forrest for the trees.

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t mind critique of a build, in fact I tend to agree with you on limitations when applied to one very specific form of high level group PvP, but it has to apply to the framework in which I presented the build or the critique is meaningless as it’s just reaffirming what I’ve already said myself!

We could all just repeatedly re-post the same 2-3 meta builds that meet your incredibly narrow definition of builds “worth bothering with”, but I think it’s pretty clear that many of us do enjoy sharing different builds for different play-styles.

Quite frankly it’s getting tiring to have to slap multiple “disclaimers” on every build post just for the elitists who want to prove their own greatness by re-stating the obvious ad nauseam. Maybe you can provide me with a pre-defined disclaimer text that makes you and any other “ueber Mesmers” ignore the thread, or at least feel dumb about -yet again- pointing out the obvious flaws when viewed through the narrow blinders of pseudo-professional gaming.

Quite frankly it’s getting tiring to have to slap multiple “disclaimers” on every build post just for the elitists who want to prove their own greatness by re-stating the obvious ad nauseam. Maybe you can provide me with a pre-defined disclaimer text that makes you and any other “ueber Mesmers” ignore the thread, or at least feel dumb about -yet again- pointing out the obvious flaws when viewed through the narrow blinders of pseudo-professional gaming.
[/quote]

+1

Not a fan of the build but you should have the right to post it without never ending negativity by folks who play an hour a week but still feel the need to comment on every thread. I think he means well, he just comes off as a uber kitten. Keep posting windwalker!

Well, if you post your build here you want it to be commented right? It has no synergy and takes the (if alone) weakest mesmer abilities together making it a pretty mess.

The problem that I have is that it’s nearly impossible to evaluate a build in a vacuum, and that’s more or less what you’re attempting to do when you evaluate a build based on and around its hotjoin performance.

With no basis for reference…it just means less. I can discuss how it has a good amount of defense while still retaining enough offensive capability to hurt – and it does – but it doesn’t mean anything without looking at it in the context of a real situation.

Hotjoin is simply so variable and unreliable that it provides almost zero usable context. In hotjoin you’ve got habitually unbalanced teams, people screwing around with no intent to win, people just testing new builds, you get the idea. There’s no solid frame of reference that’s possible to use. This is why I attempt to take any non-WvW/PvE build into the context of tPvP — because there’s no other valid frame of reference that I can use.

As it so happens, this build has a lot of issues that make it significantly less viable in tPvP. These issues don’t necessarily apply in hotjoin…because nothing necessarily applies in hotjoin. If I made the evaluation of ‘this build won’t work in hotjoin’ for literally any actual (non joke) build in this game I’d be lying because of the nature of hotjoin.

Ultimately if you didn’t intend this build for tPvP it’s not appropriate to analyze it in that context. The only alternative though is to analyze it in a near vacuum —possible, but less meaningful.

I’ll now try to analyze this build in a vacuum as best I can.

Seems to me that you’d get more mileage out doom sigils. The aoe bleed is nice, but adding a whole additional damage+utility condition is usually overall better.

Depending on how you tend to play illusionary invigoration could be more useful than illusionary elasticity. If you find yourself spending a lot of time just sitting in staff elasticity might be better. Otherwise, the shatter reset is incredibly strong.

I really have to question the choice of mirror images in a maim build. Don’t get me wrong, more clones is always good. The thing is that the primary purpose of mi is in allowing you to squeeze multiple shatters into a tiny time-frame for high burst. This usually means daze → mind wrack for power shatters. Maim doesn’t have any comparable damage amp combo though, it’s pretty linear in damage scaling and so mi isn’t useful in the same bursty way. It’s still useful for clones + stunbreak but it doesn’t have that unique ability to facilitate enormous instant burst. With that in mind you might want to look at other options there, particularly blink.

Clonedeath traits are probably your best bet if you want to contest a point for a long time.

Healing power scales terribly on mesmer.

Good luck channeling those mantras as you are trying to hold a point vs the opposing team, you most likely wont get the heal from them when you need it.

Decoy is terrible for holding points, and using it just as a stunbreak you might as well take signet of midnight.

Yes i did not read any of the posts other than yours, sorry if i am restating stuff.