Guild Wars 2

In what dungeons and on what bossed would i use sword off hand over pistol?

Always. The swordsman does more dps than the duelist.

There’s nothing preventing you from taking both, though.

Basically, if you’re afraid of the phantasm dying all the time, you can place the duelists at range before heading into melee yourself.

But yeah, they do worse damage.

Sword has a block + stun (daze pve = stun) and the pistol just got a stun. And the sword is traited with 20 points AND synergizes pretty well with vulnerability on daze passives.

Xyonon.3987:

And the sword is traited with 20 points

10

Note that the right answer, for a boss which does not require reflects, is to use pistol + sword in offhands. Both are better than iWarden~

maxinion.8396:

Note that the right answer, for a boss which does not require reflects, is to use pistol + sword in offhands. Both are better than iWarden~

Does this mean that Greatsword + Sword/Pistol is no longer the favored set-up?

Apparently, someone did Sword OF vs Pistol OF calculations and though sword OF has “higher dps” directly/base damage, the pistol has more repeats and with a 50% crit chance, it actually can do more damage + more bleeds, + combo fields. So technically, they would be equal, if the pistol doesn’t end up doing more damage.

so then Pistol is better in the long run than the Sword Off-hand? At least in PvE?

Lol, pistol is actually better in PvP/WvW cuz of the stuns/dazes CC etc
I think pistol is better in general if you don’t need that block to play with
crits, bleeds, etc, CC on non-defiant targets, pretty nice

But still depends on your play style and what your other weapon set is.

I like sword phantasm in WvW/PvP too it puts tremendous melee pressure on the target, so it’s quite effective. If I’m running a second weapon set that benefits from stacking some melee pressure on them so i can get away, that’d be nice

Depends on what you want.

An Siorai Tharian.4516:

Does this mean that Greatsword + Sword/Pistol is no longer the favored set-up?

Yes. It took long enough but people finally realised Great-sword is a bad, low DPS weapon. Now we just need the pug meta to catch up.

Apparently, someone did Sword OF vs Pistol OF calculations and though sword OF has “higher dps” directly/base damage, the pistol has more repeats and with a 50% crit chance, it actually can do more damage + more bleeds, + combo fields. So technically, they would be equal, if the pistol doesn’t end up doing more damage.

Sword has faster recharge so the DPS evens out slightly in favour of swordsman.

colesy.8490:

An Siorai Tharian.4516:

Does this mean that Greatsword + Sword/Pistol is no longer the favored set-up?

Yes. It took long enough but people finally realised Great-sword is a bad, low DPS weapon. Now we just need the pug meta to catch up.

I am fairly new to the Mesmer (mine is only level 14). If the Greatsword is that bad, then what would be the better weapon to use alongside the main-hand sword and either the off-hand Sword or Pistol?

An Siorai Tharian.4516:

colesy.8490:

An Siorai Tharian.4516:

Does this mean that Greatsword + Sword/Pistol is no longer the favored set-up?

Yes. It took long enough but people finally realised Great-sword is a bad, low DPS weapon. Now we just need the pug meta to catch up.

I am fairly new to the Mesmer (mine is only level 14). If the Greatsword is that bad, then what would be the better weapon to use alongside the main-hand sword and either the off-hand Sword or Pistol?

For lvling GS is fine but when your doing dungeon runs sword in the main hand slot is always the best weapon, with either sword/pistol/focas in the offhand slot as needed.

Here is a pic if it help also

colesy.8490:

An Siorai Tharian.4516:

Does this mean that Greatsword + Sword/Pistol is no longer the favored set-up?

Yes. It took long enough but people finally realised Great-sword is a bad, low DPS weapon. Now we just need the pug meta to catch up.

Apparently, someone did Sword OF vs Pistol OF calculations and though sword OF has “higher dps” directly/base damage, the pistol has more repeats and with a 50% crit chance, it actually can do more damage + more bleeds, + combo fields. So technically, they would be equal, if the pistol doesn’t end up doing more damage.

Sword has faster recharge so the DPS evens out slightly in favour of swordsman.

Yes it has a slighter faster recharge, that’s why the two weapons are equal. Because pistol has repeating rounds that crit and bleed, while the sword has faster recharge but only hits once. And then you also have the duelist consideration that it stands more survivable being in range. While in PvP/WvW situations, you might be an easier target with duelist, as the swordsman would put heavy melee pressure/distraction

i prefer pistol because you can just dump them outside of aoe range. they can often last the whole fight. the swordsman may do more dmg but it also dies a lot more. also, using sword 4 requires you to block, which can take a while depending on how much aggro/aoe is being thrown around.

I prefer the sword by far (PvE). It never misses unlike the pistol; it cannot be meatshielded, mobs cannot run out of range and it has a greater dps unless the duellist is in a fire field.
They are both ranged castable and the iSwordy leaps too for some distance. It’s most of the time safe too.
The biggest + for the sword OH is that it has a stun and a block compared to the stun only pistol. Also the sword 4 is able to stun multiple targets in a line, whereas the pistol just goes for 2 targets and a blind. Sword is also better with dom.15 and doesn’t force you to go duelling 30.
PvP and WvW is a different story, where you can easly evade 4 and 5 of the sword but not of the pistol.

Ikaros.5730:

In what dungeons and on what bossed would i use sword off hand over pistol?

I use pistol anywhere where i can keep 3 duelist alive forever opposed to iswordmen dying after 1-2 hits.

Example:
Svanir boss (FOTM)
Champion ettin (fotm)
Tazza (SE1)
CM some bosses
etc

also when iswordman dies too easily
(cliffside fotm to tell one but other also)

Placing iduelist requires some thougts…..but you can keep them alive long…..
Rather than relying on the random dodge of swordmen

Just remember that testing stuff agaisnt a golem in the mist is not Always the more accurate test you can do….

P.S. the sword block is slow and summons an illusion overwriting your phantasms
Staying in blocking lowers your dps unless you do it on reaction (thing you can t do so often) rather than spamming it in hope to block stuff.
Also pistol stun bounces….

P.p.S. also GS has its applications but if you even discuss the “sacred truth” you shalt be labeled as noob from the anti-GS inquisition…..
Whose sacred god (the mist golem) commanded them to ban the gs from the game.

LordByron.8369:

P.p.S. also GS has its applications but if you even discuss the “sacred truth” you shalt be labeled as noob from the anti-GS inquisition…..
Whose sacred god (the mist golem) commanded them to ban the gs from the game.

This is unfortunate. I’ve done a lot of this testing and with a ‘Mantrasm’ 30/30/0/0/10 build the DPS isn’t too far off from Sword/x. GS is 5% to 11% lower depending on how many phantasms are rolling, at least in my test scenario. This doesn’t take into account group might stacks n what not. Sword/X is an optimal choice but IMHO its wrong to view every GS mesmer as a bad player. The % DPS loss with GS gets larger with different builds though.

As far as I have tested /sword vs /pistol is very close dps wise, each having its strengths. If you run 20 in Dueling tree you can switch between them or use both.

Blood~

Bloodgruve.6038:

LordByron.8369:

P.p.S. also GS has its applications but if you even discuss the “sacred truth” you shalt be labeled as noob from the anti-GS inquisition…..
Whose sacred god (the mist golem) commanded them to ban the gs from the game.

This is unfortunate. I’ve done a lot of this testing and with a ‘Mantrasm’ 30/30/0/0/10 build the DPS isn’t too far off from Sword/x. GS is 5% to 11% lower depending on how many phantasms are rolling, at least in my test scenario. This doesn’t take into account group might stacks n what not. Sword/X is an optimal choice but IMHO its wrong to view every GS mesmer as a bad player. The % DPS loss with GS gets larger with different builds though.

As far as I have tested /sword vs /pistol is very close dps wise, each having its strengths. If you run 20 in Dueling tree you can switch between them or use both.

Blood~

ahhh the whole point of gs being bad is that you lose out on group might stacks and group buffs because you’re camping max range where the gs has moderate dps as opposed to melee where it has kittenty dps. multiply the dps loss in your solo by 2 and you get the real effect.

ahhhhhhhhhh

PS sorry for responding to troll posts which distract from topic. Pistol is great! Byron’s post on pistols is informative~

Blood is not a troll. Actually I think he spend quite amounts of time testing builds.

The thing is that this test on the indestructible golem are quite misleading. ie with 30/30/0/0/10 and three sword clones and sword autoattack (you end up with 20 stakcs of vulnerabilty) you can kill it in 20 secs ( a warrior 30/25/0/0/15 needs 17 secs…

Back on topic, I also prefer the duelist as it a lot easier to keep them alive

As i said mist golem is a totally unreliable test……

That is why many people ignores concepts like AoE…phantasm uptime and stuff like that…..

Despite they are really the base of any mmorpg.

iZerker is still the BEST aoe phantasm, also is way more durable than Others and the cripple part is totally awesome.

And the saddest part is people who thinks GS = camping at distance….sometimes you need GS stuff and you accept to use midrange in rotation with SW/X (that is still main weaponset).
There is not only autoattack..

I would say that can be misleading but you can get good info from it.

LordByron.8369:

As i said mist golem is a totally unreliable test……

That is why many people ignores concepts like AoE…phantasm uptime and stuff like that…..

Despite they are really the base of any mmorpg.

iZerker is still the BEST aoe phantasm, also is way more durable than Others and the cripple part is totally awesome.

And the saddest part is people who thinks GS = camping at distance….sometimes you need GS stuff and you accept to use midrange in rotation with SW/X (that is still main weaponset).
There is not only autoattack..

If you want to defend Greatsword, do it somewhere else, I’ve lost enough sanity trying to sway people in this subforum, I don’t need you trying to ignite the issue again, or even worse, trick newbies in to thinking it’s actually good. Also, if you really want to pursue this, how about you come up with something better than the mob tagging argument? Do you also advocate guardians camping staff in dungeons because of tagging five targets per attack? No you don’t, or at least I hope you don’t.

next time use your time testing with more humilty…
So you don t have to open threads complaining about failing dungeons with pugs….

Different theories

I wonder who would people choose between a player with 6 weapons in his inventory…switching them according to situations…

And a player with only 3 and that can play only with certain players/profession…..

That is and will be the reason you will Always will be compared to those players that don t retraits for WWW and PvE….

And despite i don t want to explain all from the beginning…
If a newbie reads here…..he probably will pug…
AND if can afford only 3 weapons….suggesting him to go without a ranged option is not wrong….is plain trolling.
More in topic if he can afford 4 i would get pistol first.

More in topic:
I use mostly Sw/focus Sw/Sw

The point is OH sword MAY be replaced in specific situations.
GS and Pistol are less likely to be.

That is the reason to get OH sw last.

LordByron.8369:

P.S. the sword block is slow and summons an illusion overwriting your phantasms
Staying in blocking lowers your dps unless you do it on reaction (thing you can t do so often) rather than spamming it in hope to block stuff.
Also pistol stun bounces….

It’s hilarous to read and post in these forums. If we talk about high dps, we allways hear “you rarely gonna have 3 phantasms out at the same time, they die during combat” but if there is a skill that deals heavy damage but creates a clone: “It’s bad, it destroyes our 3rd phantasm!!” … seriously – you really rarely gonna have 3 phantasms out. Also it’s not like you couldn’t resummon them or you wouldn’t deal significant damage with the block alone.
Also the block is definitly not slow wtf o.O It’s kinda instant, unless you suffer from heavy lag. You can easy time the block between attacks without lowering your DpS but increasing it! I do not want to insult somone, but it’s completly normal that if you never use a block weapon, you gonna have trouble using it efficient in the beginning. If you missed the block you even can release a daze-in-line skill wich is very useful for the team, same as the pistol 5 of course. The pistol seems to be easier played efficient, but the sword can do more but takes some efforts.

colesy.8490:

random colesy GS hate hate hate

Noone forces you to read the suggestions, nor to accept them. You hate the GS, we all know that, you will never change since you are just playing this game with premades.

LordByron.8369:

I wonder who would people choose between a player with 6 weapons in his inventory…switching them according to situations…

And a player with only 3 and that can play only with certain players/profession…..

Exactly this. To be flexible and able to adapt to almost every situation makes you truly a good player.

I don’t hate it at all, I hate the moronic logic people use to justify using it, hence my guardian staff analogy. Tagging mobs isn’t a justification that would fly for any other class, but GS users cling to it like its a real reason to use a bad weapon. I don’t play with premades either, when I go to imbued shaman or when I did arah story recently against the mouth of zhaitan, I just run in and melee because I can rely on my own reflexes to keep myself alive, running with bads isn’t an excuse to range bosses. I also choose to melee lupicus even if the pug is ranging because when my lag isn’t making me teleport I’m ok at seeing the tells and evading. So how about you ignore the tone of my posts and actually respond to the content rather than dismissing because I hurt people’s feelings. Of course you can always pull a jportell and completely ignore my posts because there’s no real counterargument, when I responded to him in a dungeon thread in a perfectly calm tone, there was no aggression for him to respond to so he repeatedly ignored me despite me using up four hours worth of posts trying to get a response, but I’m sure you’re better than that since you’re one of the few posters on this subforum who’s opinion I don’t consider completely irrelevant.

colesy.8490:

I don’t hate it at all,

Awww comon :P I know you do xD

colesy.8490:

I hate the moronic logic people use to justify using it, hence my guardian staff analogy.

I don’t know how much the staff does since I don’t play a guard. However the might stacks grant good passive damage and may be great for an opener aswell I like to share the might with my Mesmer if I see a guard is using the staff. But what I actually want to say about the staff that makes him compareable to the GS: The situation. I would punch every single guard in his face if he wouldn’t use a staff in TA. There are sure other situations where a staff can be so overwhelming. Wasn’kitten staff skill that blocks movement of enemies? The “window wall and enemies act likes flies” thing? Is there something better in the ascalon or dredge fractale?? Well I don’t know, I don’t play guard… yet :P But next on my list^^

colesy.8490:

Tagging mobs isn’t a justification that would fly for any other class, but GS users cling to it like its a real reason to use a bad weapon.

Yes, that’s a silly reason and I remember using this argument myself once at the CoF p2 discussion. But I won’t support any weapon for that anymore. One does not take the GS for tagging, it’s just for specific situations.

colesy.8490:

I don’t play with premades either, when I go to imbued shaman or when I did arah story recently against the mouth of zhaitan, I just run in and melee because I can rely on my own reflexes to keep myself alive, running with bads isn’t an excuse to range bosses.

True, it isn’t. But I even if the boss was op as hell I would never take a GS against a boss. I’d go for Scepter/Sword or Pistol (or Focus if reflection is handy) and a Staff of course. A boss isn’t the application field of a GS. Sure it sux there.

colesy.8490:

So how about you ignore the tone of my posts and actually respond to the content rather than dismissing because I hurt people’s feelings.

“If you want to defend Greatsword, do it somewhere else, I’ve lost enough sanity trying to sway people in this subforum, I don’t need you trying to ignite the issue again, or even worse, trick newbies in to thinking it’s actually good. Also, if you really want to pursue this, how about you come up with something better than the mob tagging argument? Do you also advocate guardians camping staff in dungeons because of tagging five targets per attack? No you don’t, or at least I hope you don’t.”

You seriously think this is productive? This text consists of 90% hate and 10% guard stuff… The only thing I could have said was that noone here talked about tagging. At least I can’t find anything.

colesy.8490:

Of course you can always pull a jportell and completely ignore my posts because there’s no real counterargument, when I responded to him in a dungeon thread in a perfectly calm tone, there was no aggression for him to respond to so he repeatedly ignored me despite me using up four hours worth of posts trying to get a response, but I’m sure you’re better than that since you’re one of the few posters on this subforum who’s opinion I don’t consider completely irrelevant.

I don’t know anything about the “fight” between you two, so why let it out against me? But it’s allways dangerous to discuss here. There are just letters and we understand what we feel is right. I don’t know if you argue against me or if you just explain the situation with whoever. Aswell if somone doesn’t answer you, you don’t know if he ignores you or accepts his fault and doesn’t want to talk about it anymore. If you are angry inside you often read normal sentences like they were very offensive, maybe they arent. I really don’t like to post in forums with all those letters. We should make more use of :P :o xD ^^.

Uhm … back to topic I just can say what I allways tell you: I think the GS is bad in general, like the staff or the scepter. But they all deserve a space in my inventory, since no ther weapon than the staff is better against dangerous bosses, or nothing feels greater than block the mossmans axe with scepter 2, aswell nothing makes me happier than a good phantasmal zerker against an army of dredges as an opener. A sword is better in general, aswel pistol, focuse and oh sword. But there are situations where they are far behind the other weapons.

colesy be more humble….

I explained HOW and WHEN i use GS repeating a page of data many times (also how to keep 3 iduelist alive).

Your answer is accusing me to camp with greatsword…..that since i explained how i use the GS seems to me a clear flaming attempt.

You also said i misinform new players….and since yourself stated you can t pug; proves totally the opposite…..

P.S: enjoy your melee mesmer in TA without a staff guardian clearing blossoms….
Every weapon has a use…..even torch.

@Xyonon

A simple question…
You have no guild, and you want to pug a lot (typical new player situation).

You can afford only 3 weapons and you need to play fractal and all dungeons with your mesmer.

Wich weapons will you take?
When you have more money wich others in wich order?

The answer to that question explains my point.

P.S: also when you get your last weapon you have probably run enough istances to have confidence to choose your “best” weapons by yourself.

Let’s not digress on the greatsword. All that needs to be said for both new and existing players regarding the greatsword for mesmers can be found here:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/How-to-play-a-Mesmer-in-dungeons

To the OP: As others have essentially said, if your phantasms can be safely placed so that it will take no damage the entire fight, your pistol is easily the best bet, and you should really only summon those. In the other cases, sword is the higher DPS option. I, personally, use both nearly always as I am constantly weapon-swapping to proc my battle sigil. As Lord Byron noted, the Svanir Shaman in the blizzard fractal is the perfect example of when to use pistol phantasms. They are unaffected by his agony attack and can be placed out of range of his only distance-based breath attack.

As not to distract from the thread.

Bumbler.7581:

Let’s not digress on the greatsword. All that needs to be said for both new and existing players regarding the greatsword for mesmers can be found here:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/How-to-play-a-Mesmer-in-dungeons

To the OP: As others have essentially said, if your phantasms can be safely placed so that it will take no damage the entire fight, your pistol is easily the best bet, and you should really only summon those. In the other cases, sword is the higher DPS option. I, personally, use both nearly always as I am constantly weapon-swapping to proc my battle sigil. As Lord Byron noted, the Svanir Shaman in the blizzard fractal is the perfect example of when to use pistol phantasms. They are unaffected by his agony attack and can be placed out of range of his only distance-based breath attack.

+1

(this is an interesting topic so let’s try to stick to it folks!)

And what do you exactly do different to “safe” your phantasms? o.o’’

Place them in the best spot…
There are many tactics to make phantas stay alive….even iwardens (can t be done with iswordmen)

Its all about placing them correctly and keeping your target where you want.

The iDuelist drops somewhat close to you when you finish casting, and actually has a rather large range with no DPS penalty. So you can duck out of the fight for a moment (to heal as well), drop a duelist far from the mob, and jump back in.

maxinion.8396:

The iDuelist drops somewhat close to you when you finish casting, and actually has a rather large range with no DPS penalty. So you can duck out of the fight for a moment (to heal as well), drop a duelist far from the mob, and jump back in.

Something that people don’t always think about is DPS up-time. Every second you’re away from your target, not attacking it or dodging, is a DPS loss. It can be a significant loss. Not sure what the loss vs gain would be here, losing a phantasm vs placing a phantasm, but it could potentially be a wash. Mind you I haven’t done any figuring or testing with this so I’m just playing devils advocate.

That’s probably why our ranged options are lower DPS in most cases, to balance vs lower up-time melee.

Blood~

Bloodgruve.6038:

maxinion.8396:

The iDuelist drops somewhat close to you when you finish casting, and actually has a rather large range with no DPS penalty. So you can duck out of the fight for a moment (to heal as well), drop a duelist far from the mob, and jump back in.

Something that people don’t always think about is DPS up-time. Every second you’re away from your target, not attacking it or dodging, is a DPS loss. It can be a significant loss. Not sure what the loss vs gain would be here, losing a phantasm vs placing a phantasm, but it could potentially be a wash. Mind you I haven’t done any figuring or testing with this so I’m just playing devils advocate.

That’s probably why our ranged options are lower DPS in most cases, to balance vs lower up-time melee.

Blood~

That’s absolutely true. I try to avoid ducking out of fights as much as I can, but often the mechanics of the boss enforce that you do it at least a little, and that’s a great time to place duelists. Howling King in ACp1, for example, requires a bit of kiting with gravelings once in a while, and the channel time for a duelist can be long enough to give you something useful to do while you run around.

… why not both?