Guild Wars 2

By and large, Nemesis’ builds and videos are held in very high regard on this forum, and are often times suggested to those hunting for builds, build ideas, or playstyle suggestions. I’ve watched a few of his guides myself, and he really does seem to know his stuff.

However, there seems to be a rather large disconnect between his power build suggestion (30/0/10/0/30) and the general consensus of the forum community (30/25/0/0/15). I was curious as to why this was, and which one I should be looking at building towards more. Has a patch changed traits around since his powermancer build was posted?

Apologies if this discussion was already covered, by the way – I’ve seen the 30/25/0/0/15 build espoused several times, so I know the advantages it brings, but not in comparison to the 30/0/10/0/30.

Much appreciated!

I dunno why you don’t want deathly perception. Dagger damage CAN be higher, but necro don’t have access to fury.

knbBlackTemplar.3059:

I dunno why you don’t want deathly perception. Dagger damage CAN be higher, but necro don’t have access to fury.

Sure he/she does – run with a warrior….

I am not sure if this is the right answer but…

Nemesis clearly says that with his build, ds1 is meant to be the auto attack. That means staying ranged, using axe2 for LF gen and jumping back into DS.

The asvantage to this is good ranged direct damage and theoretically more dps uptime due to being ranged

In order to have the highest possible dps, people use the 30,25,0,0,15 build with wh5 and dagger auto. If you have team support (vigor, aegis) and can dodge, this build will do a ton of damage. Problem is you are more vulnerable because you are in melee so if you down or have to jump out to heal, that’s a loss of dps

A DS focused build is a gimmicky fun build. Nothing more. Its poor dps and if you are hit you are locked out of DS with even lower dps because of low base crit chance.

Also nemesis is a good theorycrafter but he doesnt run in optimized groups and is very biased towards necro. I love the class for fun but Im a player that likes being efficient and as useful as possible so I will try and maximise efficiency in every class I play, including necro. Which means Ive settled on my dagger build, which has been proven in the dungeon forums to be better dps than the other alternative power builds.

@knb
The dagger build has access to 5 seconds of fury every 10 seconds. Also ideally your group should have a warrior, ranger or ele to provide fury.

Sepreh.5924:

In order to have the highest possible dps, people use the 30,25,0,0,15 build with wh5 and dagger auto. If you have team support (vigor, aegis) and can dodge, this build will do a ton of damage. Problem is you are more vulnerable because you are in melee so if you down or have to jump out to heal, that’s a loss of dos

The damage advantage of melee over range is so large that even dodging every time you have enough endurance and healing fairly regularly results in faster kill times. The whole idea that dodging reduces dps uptime and is a reason to use ranged is completely wrong. Yes dodging and healing reduces your dps slightly but not nearly enough to make ranging better dps. Necro lich form is probably the closest to melee dps you can get while being ranged.

spoj.9672:

Sepreh.5924:

In order to have the highest possible dps, people use the 30,25,0,0,15 build with wh5 and dagger auto. If you have team support (vigor, aegis) and can dodge, this build will do a ton of damage. Problem is you are more vulnerable because you are in melee so if you down or have to jump out to heal, that’s a loss of dos

The damage advantage of melee over range is so large that even dodging every time you have enough endurance and healing fairly regularly results in faster kill times. The whole idea that dodging reduces dps uptime and is a reason to use ranged is completely wrong. Yes dodging and healing reduces your dps slightly but not nearly enough to make ranging better dps. Necro lich form is probably the closest to melee dps you can get while being ranged.

Oh, agreed. I was just saying that if you aren’t that good at dodging and down or have to leave melee to heal, it lowers overall dps compare to itself. It’s the build I use

Thank you for the detailed responses so far!

Spoj, it was actually your build in particular that I had in mind, so I greatly appreciate you coming by to chip in. From what I’m gathering, the DS-focused build will result in less DPS – especially in conjunction with a dedicated dungeon group. But for now, I’m still in the leveling process, and even if I do get into dungeons it’ll likely be doing PUGs.

That being the case, reliable group buffs are not necessarily an option. Taking full self-sufficiency into account, would the more dagger-focused build still be considered preferable?

Most likely yes. You can still use DS as a ranged option in both build. Mine is less reliant on DS for dps so you can do both without losing much effectiveness. Even without fulls buffs dagger hits pretty hard and you can take an axe or a scepter with the focus for a ranged option if you really want to (Ive been taking d/w and scepter focus for fractals because of the extra aoe it provides and bleeds ticking for 60+ isnt that bad for a full zerker build).

Thing to note, both builds are going to hit very hard when full buffed but the dps lifeblast provides is really not that impressive due to the 1 second cast time + aftercast.

Id definately stick with 30/25/0/0/15 for pugs because of the warhorn trait and the better reliable solo dps. Its the build i will be using to try and beat the current lupi solo with necro. The builds that others used for lupi were 30/15/0/0/25 (for DS cd which results in higher fury uptime) and 30/20/0/0/20 which holds the current record of 11.35(DS cd and locust swarm trait). But you should just try playing around with things while leveling and have fun.

Because +%damage > power > crit > critdamage.

Doesn’t take a genius to figure the right traits out.

knbBlackTemplar.3059:

I dunno why you don’t want deathly perception. Dagger damage CAN be higher, but necro don’t have access to fury.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Furious_Demise

Funnily enough there is a post on reddit alleging the opposite (sort of):

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/1o28fh/death_shroud_is_the_best_necro_dps/

What do you guys think of his arguments? I should add that in the comments posters seemed to agree that 30/25 was a bit better for organised dungeon groups. Plus someone mentioned that the SR 25 trait was bugged, which I don’t think the OP factored in. However it does indicate that 30/10/0/0/30 is a viable build.

I also found the discussion in this old thread interesting, esp Blood Red Arachnid’s maths:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Hybrid-vs-Full-Power-dps-wise

Originally I was going to come in here and say stuff, but then someone linked to basically all the stuff I’d say.

It really depends on circumstances. I, myself, run the 30/10/0/0/30 build, mostly because it is rare that I find myself in a situation where I am not using lifeblast against two or more enemies, and when not lifeblasting that the enemies survive long enough after Axe #2 (which, when boosted, matches dagger DPS but has greater LF generation) to make highly emphasizing the dagger particularly useful. Against champions that are by themselves, 30/25/0/0/15 build can definitely make its mark, unquestionably better in that circumstance.

Of course, at the end it is all debating a very small change to scales overall. I don’t think I ever factored in food, either…

I was always under the impression that the Dagger build was better suited for single target bosses, and the DS build allows for more AoE. There is no 1 build for every encounter.

im runing 30/10/0/0/30 on dagger/axe. when i have multiple targets i just drop wells and go to DS, do aoe and mobs are dead. then i go out of DS and focus on main mob. changing sigil of bloodlust to perception busting percision over 50%. when i hit 25 stacks i switch to sigil of accuracy to boost up precision even more. for second weapon i use sigil of strenght due to high crit chance for more might.
i’m using full berserker with traveler runes. Traveler for faster moving with some buff duration. gaining +6 in crit dmg is a bonus to it. cos of traveler runes i can use 2 wells and a signet. wells of suffering and coruption and signet of spite. well of coruption do around half of the dmg as suffering with a converting buffs to condition. so droping those 2 and hit with dagger veterans drops in few secs.
im mostly roming trough the maps for hard conntent and do wvw.

The arguement is that 30/10/0/0/30 is better for aoe because of the capped 99% crit chance in DS to make your wells, locust swarm and life transfer crit constistantly with more crit damage. But the most notible encounters of every dungeon are bosses which are single target and will knock you out of DS so much that you will lose way too much dps. Like ive said already lifeblast isnt good dps anway, its ok when it hits multiple targets but if it doesnt its a massive waste of a skill.

The encounters where you need to aoe trash down can be done with 30/25/0/0/15 with pretty much the same effect, most hits crit and the mobs should be dead shortly after the aoe combo ends. So there is really no point in maxing efficiency for the less common aoe situations which are brief enough with the better single target dps build.

Ive been running the numbers recently to see potential dps in a fully buffed up environment with perfect conditions and have come to a value of 13.4k dps and thats when ignoring flesh golem, shadow fiend and blood fiend (only 2 utilities were used, WoS and signet of spite).

Compared to fully buffed staff ele (14k dps) and LH ele (16k dps) thats pretty kitteng good considering they are rated the highest dps builds atm. These are assuming banners, empower allies, food, slaying pots, night and slaying sigils, sigil stacks, scholar runes, might, fury and vuln.

Alight thanks for that Spoj, have you ever calculated how useful access to Vuln stacking with a DS build is in a pug relative to the amount of extra DPS dagger puts out compared to it. By that i mean the effect vuln has on the groups DPS in the instance someone else isn’t able to stack it to 25 consistently.

Well vuln stacking on bosses is very hard to maintain due to unshakeable. On regular mobs focus 4 maintains 12 stacks of vuln pretty much permanently, on bosses its far from sustained but its going to be much better vuln stacking than lifeblasting alone. Necro isnt really known for being good at vuln. Going by the wiki, life blast would maintain about 6-8 vuln stacks on bosses which actually isnt too bad but you would be doing pretty awful dps to maintain a 6% boost. Something which other classes can do better without ruining their own dps to do it.

I was just testing in HotM and with 30% conduration from Spite and my max was 16-18 stacks, so around 8 on a boss, then again with dodge used every CD it was 14 stacks, 7 on a boss.

I only bring this up because a lot of the time when i pug a dungeon the vuln is never at 25 ^^ so i’m hesitant to buy those daggers. :P

By how much DPS roughly is the difference between Dagger and DS btw, Appreciate your input.

DS hits about once per 1.3 seconds so depending how hard you hit its dramaticly lower than dagger which hits 4 times in 2 seconds. Dagger auto when full buffed with my build is about 11.6k dps so you would have to hit life blasts over 15k to out dps dagger alone. Ill run the actual numbers of a fully buffed lifeblast later tonight to see if thats possible.

I’m just curious, what is the actual damage each Dagger hit is criting for, and is 100% crit chance from sigils+fury assumed?

Spoj, you gotta realize that the DS build doesn’t use life blast against single bosses. It swaps out to the dagger and fights from there.

And you have less dps when doing that because of your low crit chance lol. My build has 96% crit chance with fury, banner of disc, food and perception stacks. The modifiers from target the weak + crit chance is better than 15% crit damage and a bugged minor.

The dagger chain fully buffed up hits for (2x)3.7k, 5.8k and then 10k roughly.

Ill check dagger dps with the DS build assuming the 25 SR minor works correctly and see how it compares 2morrow.

Those are some pretty insane numbers.

And wait so if you switch to dagger in the DS build, doesn’t that make nearly every one of your major traits useless? Since they are all based on DS.

Yeah if I was ever going to go far into SR for a power build Id use 30/15/0/0/25 so you have fury and weakening shroud. But you lose locust swarm trait which increases dps but quite a nice margin in shorter fights.

spoj.9672:

DS hits about once per 1.3 seconds so depending how hard you hit its dramaticly lower than dagger which hits 4 times in 2 seconds. Dagger auto when full buffed with my build is about 11.6k dps so you would have to hit life blasts over 15k to out dps dagger alone. Ill run the actual numbers of a fully buffed lifeblast later tonight to see if thats possible.

To have 11.6k DPS (damage per second) that means that a dagger 1 cycle would hit for 23.200 damage over 2 seconds (as in 5k 5k 13.2k… good luck with that one)… which is impossible. I have seen 3k 3k 7k from dagger 1 in the best cases… which makes it 13000 damage over 2 seconds, 6500 DPS…
DS 1 can hit around 8000, best cases 12-14000 in 1.3 seconds… so… mmm…

I was following this thread for a while now, chose not to interfere… but some things i simply can’t let slide… sorry.

PS: to even have a chance at such high numbers you need to always crit, which is 80% crit chance before fury + perma fury uptime… which again is impossible stat wise.

Dagger hits 4 times. Double strike (dagger 1.1) hits 3.7k twice fully buffed roughly. Ill post the math if you want.

spoj.9672:

Dagger hits 4 times. Double strike (dagger 1.1) hits 3.7k twice fully buffed roughly. Ill post the math if you want.

Yes yes… was saying that 1st hit (x2) gets counted as 1 cycle hit since it has a chain of 3… even though the first in chain hits (x2).
Regardless… just for the sake of argument… just respeced into your build… signet of spite + blood is power + 10 stacks of vulnerability on target… i hit 1.8k (x2) + 2.5k + 6k… best case scenario when i always crit… and it’s not even in the same cycle…

I would like to see how you hit double me… with the same build and same items, can you post a video or something ? Maybe a few screenshots ?

So… 11.6k DPS = 23k damage on cycle… so you’ll need a 4k (x2) + 6K + 9K…
I so want to see that… if you can show me that i’ll convert myself to your melee ways

You wont reach 11k dps in reality. Its theoretical dps with full buffs and optimum conditions. But ive hit close to 9k on final strike of dagger in coe plenty of times.

Ye it seems to be only possible to get 96% crit which is still pretty good, but not 100%

It would be 52% from Full Zerk + Ruby Orbs
56% – 4-5?% from Food
64% – 8% from Banner of Discipline
76% – 12% from Sigil of Perception
96% – 20% from Fury

For pugs though, you won’t always get banners, 100% fury uptime (50% at min) and 25 vuln, would you agree that Dagger builds DPS relies more on an organized group?

Heres some stuff copied straight from my notepad:

Beserker, Scholar Runes, Night Sigil, Slaying Sigil, Powerful Potion, Curry Butternut Squash Soup, Perception, 4 conditions, Signet of Spite, Banner of Strength, Banner of Discipline, Empower Allies, 25 Might, 25 Vuln, Fury

Necro damage modifiers – 10%, 10%, 10%, 10%, 2% (per condi), 20% (< 50% hp) = 1.1 * 1.1 * 1.1 * 1.1 * 1.02^4 * 1.09 * 1.25 = 2.159

Power = 916 + 1238 + 300 + 180 + 170 + 150 + 875 = 2634 (+ 170 + 150 + 875) = 3829
Precision = 916 + 734 + 250 + 170 + 250 + 100 = 1900 (+ 170 + 250 + 100) = 2420
Crit Chance = 76% (+ 20%) = 96%
Crit Damage = 93% (+ 15% + 10%) = 118%
Condition Damage = 250 (+ 170 + 875) = 1295
Condition Duration = 30%
Bleed (1 stack) = 107.25 DPS

Dagger weapon dmg = (970 + 1030)/2 = 1000
5 chains in 10 seconds

Skill Coeff = 0.451, 0.701, 1.201

base damage = (2x)664.184, 1032.357, 1768.703
damage with modifiers = (2x)1433.973, 2228.859, 3818.630
average damage = (2x)3746.685, 5823.563, 9977.316

1 Chain = 23294.249

DPS = (23294.249 * 5)/10 = 11647.1245 DPS

Tobbygnome.6793:

For pugs though, you won’t always get banners, 100% fury uptime (50% at min) and 25 vuln, would you agree that Dagger builds DPS relies more on an organized group?

Not really, necro has pretty good dps without buffs compared to other classes. In a pug you can easily hit 4-5k+ with final dagger hit with a few conditions on foe.

I wanna try the build, could you please provide me with the correct traits, maybe i’ll grow attached to it. :>

Much appreciated o/

Edit: nvm it’s in your sig lol, woops

WoW… talking about best case scenario…

It will take me a long while to verify everything you have said since i’d like to calculate stuff for myself, even modifiers…
Even if this is the case, it presumes highly strict scenarios in which you never dodge, and people play more or less for you.

I have done many hits of 17000 with DS 1 in my time, so… while we are on the subject of best case scenarios…
I also believe that there may be something amiss here, since the difference between the theoretical damage and real damage i can put out with your build and your items is a bit too large…

I always found out that power type damage is easier calculated by just hitting stuff, condition damage on the other hand is far more forgiving, since you start with the condition damage calculator for DPS at… and you multiply that by targets infected.

Just in case i am doing something wrong, i am still willing/waiting to see you pull off that damage. I wasn’t joking when i said i would convert.

Hopefully is not like… when the planets align… you do one such cycle, has to be consistent… because i don’t hit 17000 with DS 1 every hit, fully buffed stays around 13000 i think, not sure… don’t really run with premade groups.

lol Nemesis “when the planets align” i read that in your voice :P i love it

Ill try and get some arah footage or something this weekend.

I worked out dagger dps for 30/10/0/0/30 and it comes out as 11291.482 dps when fully buffed. This is with a crit chance of 88% which means deathly perception is pretty much wasted. Its not far behind the dagger build when fully buffed but its still less and any more than 4 conditions on the dagger build and the gap is increased further.

Also in pugs you arent going to have 88% crit chance. Dagger build has much better crit chance when solo and the potential to increase solo crit chance with fury every 10 seconds. So yeah dagger is pretty clearly better on my build for both pugs and organised groups. In organised groups it would be a complete waste to take deathly perception even on a DS build.

Also just worked out Lifeblast dps. On my build you get this:

1 Life blast in 1.3 seconds
Skill Coeff = 1.000, 1.400

base damage = 1472.692, 2061.769
damage with modifiers = 3179.642, 4451.359
average damage = 8307.769, 11630.511

DPS = 6390.592 DPS, 8946.547 DPS (Under 600 units)

Then for the DS build assuming axe training and 100% crit chance (in game its actually capped at something like 99%) you get the following numbers:

base damage = 1472.692, 2061.769
damage with modifiers = 3393.082, 4750.316
average damage = 9602.422, 13443.394

DPS = 7386.478 DPS, 10341.072 DPS (Under 600 units)

Which isnt too bad compared to dagger. You could boost lifeblast up a bit more with bloodlust instead of perception in the DS build but then you lose even more dps when using dagger. Considering DS up time, I still dont regard it as worth using. But i guess I can admit that the DS build isnt too bad.

spoj.9672:

I worked out dagger dps for 30/10/0/0/30 and it comes out as 11291.482 dps when fully buffed. This is with a crit chance of 88% which means deathly perception is pretty much wasted. Its not far behind the dagger build when fully buffed but its still less and any more than 4 conditions on the dagger build and the gap is increased further.

Also in pugs you arent going to have 88% crit chance. Dagger build has much better crit chance when solo and the potential to increase solo crit chance with fury every 10 seconds. So yeah dagger is pretty clearly better on my build for both pugs and organised groups. In organised groups it would be a complete waste to take deathly perception even on a DS build.

Again you maximize your stats and probabilities via full buffed (best case scenario) and minimize my own.

I would not go into 88% crit chance on a Deathly Perception build… when i need only 50%, this extra 38% critical chance will give me room to have a lot more power then you… so the distance is not that high, taken into consideration that not everyone here has the skill level to play melee and dodge perfectly / never dodge… the actual gameplay again will weaken your playstyle in favor of mine.
Would you actually recommend your playstyle to new players and hope them to survive any dungeon harder then CoF p1 ?… I’ve seen so many people failing CoF p1 even…

You also have to take into consideration that i will have an extra hit advantage each target… since you can’t possibly enter combat AND reach the target in under 1 second, but i can enter combat directly with damage. This is meaningless if you do like 10-20 cycles of damage… but for all mobs that die in under 5 cycles from your damage + team… you lose 1 cycle in favor of my 1 extra hit…

There are a lot of variables to consider…

PS: Still willing to look at footage when you decide to show me some…

spoj.9672:

Also just worked out Lifeblast dps. On my build you get this:

1 Life blast in 1.3 seconds
Skill Coeff = 1.000, 1.400

base damage = 1472.692, 2061.769
damage with modifiers = 3179.642, 4451.359
average damage = 8307.769, 11630.511

DPS = 6390.592 DPS, 8946.547 DPS (Under 600 units)

Then for the DS build assuming axe training and 100% crit chance (in game its actually capped at something like 99%) you get the following numbers:

base damage = 1472.692, 2061.769
damage with modifiers = 3393.082, 4750.316
average damage = 9602.422, 13443.394

DPS = 7386.478 DPS, 10341.072 DPS (Under 600 units)

Which isnt too bad compared to dagger. You could boost lifeblast up a bit more with bloodlust instead of perception in the DS build but then you lose even more dps when using dagger. Considering DS up time, I still dont regard it as worth using. But i guess I can admit that the DS build isnt too bad.

Exactly… it’s like 5-10% difference at best… and those kind of 5% differences are made by circumstance anyway. I rather give “everyone” something 20% safer with 5%-10% less damage… then give them something with 10% more damage that will put them into the ground 50% of the time…
I’ll have like a million whispers say… but man… we keep dying…

You have no idea how many people said that the conditionmancer build is not tanky enough, and they die…

You know that people despite of what i say… will start “customizing your/my” build… start using valkyre and santinel and mess everything up.
When i made the build i took everything into consideration…

edit: Even i worry that where i go… high fractals and stuff, using your build i’ll die at least 20% more then using mine, so your 10% more damage is actually not going to help me.
I wouldn’t wish this upon casual people that watch videos to learn in the first place…

But yeah… if you can pull it off… by all means, i even applaud you for it.
/bow

People can use whatever they want. I honestly dont mind. But ive given the maths to prove my build achieves higher dps and is therefore better. Thats all I care about, its not my concern whether players are good enough to use it or not. If they want to do as much damage as possible then surely they should be motivated to improve so they can use it effectively.

People who die too easily just need to improve. They arent going to be dieing much less sitting at 600 range. I would of loved to be told to go melee beserker in my first dungeons, I wouldnt of developed so many bad habits if I had learnt the hard way. Beserker necro actually feels like one of the safest zerker classes imo, the high base hp and DS makes it very easy to escape to a safe distance when things get hairy or just absorb hits without going down. Thats my belief on the subject though. Anyway, ill try and get some arah footage this weekend to prove how close you can get with good groups.

edit: For fractals I take a scepter for the extra aoe and the option to back out at range a bit. The guys in my guild who do fractals 70+ scale maximise damage as much as possible because thats the only way to go that high up. They use to run with a necro who ran a hybrid build (i believe) because that has more aoe. But really its player skill which matters in fractals that high.

So, let me get this straight. Because Nemesis’ build uses life blast, it doesn’t get banner buffs? It has a harder time reaching a high crit chance when it only has to gear to get 50% instead of as high as possible and ends up with higher crit rate solo than the dagger build does with banners and Fury (100% vs 88%)? Equal power, higher crit damage, higher crit rate, vulnerability stacking and self-might above 10.

Yes, I know the multipliers work out differently. A full cycle of a dagger attack has a total power coefficient of 2.8, exactly the same as two life blasts, but take approximately .6 seconds less time. Factor in Axe Mastery and the advantage is dropped. Factor in Bloodlust stacks and might over 10 and there is no longer an advantage. As a solo build, Nemesis has the better one, no question, as it gets higher numbers without any assistance.

And I’m pretty certain that the game doesn’t actually cap crit chance, not since I’ve seen Warriors with 120% crit chance (obviously, the extra 20% is wasted). What you might be seeing is a rounding error where it displays 50% (pre-deathly perception), but the actual crit chance is something like 49.7%

You misread my post. 88% crit chance is dagger with full banners buffs and fury on the DS build… The DS build fully buffed has 88% crit chance out of DS if you have perception and precision food. Dagger build has 96%. I included all the same buffs in both builds calculations… The displayed crit chance can go over 100% but you still get the odd non crit which means actual crit chance is never actually 100% or more….

I already factored in axe training to lifeblast on the DS build and the advantage was not dropped it was minimised. Without axe mastery you have a total damage modifier of 2.095 which is less than the dagger build. When you include axe training it goes up to 2.304 which is higher than the dagger build with 4 conditions. Life blast is too slow to be higher dps than dagger. Ill redo lifeblast calcs with bloodlust and different food seeing as the build is about maximising DS damage and screwing the rest of your dmg.

Ok so i recalced the DS build with bloodlust and sweet and spicy butternut squash soup (100 power 10 crit dmg).

The dagger dps drops to 10941.3185 dps and life blast goes up to 11286.328 dps (still less than dagger dps on my build). Which considering how little you can consistantly life blast is a pretty poor idea. The build relies way too much on remaining in DS for damage which is far more difficult than it is to maintain melee distance lol.

spoj.9672:

Ok so i recalced the DS build with bloodlust and sweet and spicy butternut squash soup (100 power 10 crit dmg).

The dagger dps drops to 10941.3185 dps and life blast goes up to 11286.328 dps (still less than dagger dps on my build). Which considering how little you can consistantly life blast is a pretty poor idea. The build relies way too much on remaining in DS for damage which is far more difficult than it is to maintain melee distance lol.

In the DS build you can do 22 hits in 30 seconds before you run out of LF… that is without Reaper’s Precision… Most bosses die within 1 minute with a high power group, so you only have to come out of DS once, to charge it back up with a very high damage channeling skill + applying further vulnerability on target… not to mention some bosses have adds, which die… which give life force…

PS: coming out of DS into Lich Form FTW

Assuming you dont get hit. And my calcs were with the minor 5% more dmg above 50% lifeforce so your dps with lifeblast would drop a bit when you get below 50%. That is admittedly pretty good uptime regardless. Its still less reliable than just learning to dodge and meleeing with dagger (which provides more dps). But I should probably just leave it there, because thats just personal beliefs and preferences again.

spoj.9672:

Assuming you dont get hit. And my calcs were with the minor 5% more dmg above 50% lifeforce so your dps with lifeblast would drop a bit when you get below 50%. That is admittedly pretty good uptime regardless. Its still less reliable than just learning to dodge and meleeing with dagger (which provides more dps). But I should probably just leave it there, because thats just personal beliefs and preferences again.

That is true… i’m an AoE person in general, i like to fight many mobs at once, own them and feel good about it, dodging them seems a little impossible to me… especially considering my preference in PvE. All i see is the hundreds of dredge descending upon me rofl…

I just realized something… aren’t you overkilling your Lich Form, since you’ll jump over 100% crit chance with it in your build ?

I dont use lich form. I run flesh golem (which I havent bothered to calc the dps for because of how often it dies) or plague if I need the blind/stability. If I get dredge fractal ill use lich for the dredge power suit/ ice elemental though.

I havent tested it but isnt Lich less dps than dagger anyway?

spoj.9672:

I dont use lich form. I run flesh golem (which I havent bothered to calc the dps for because of how often it dies) or plague if I need the blind/stability. If I get dredge fractal ill use lich for the dredge power suit/ ice elemental though.

I havent tested it but isnt Lich less dps than dagger anyway?

Noup… since it attacks harder then DS 1 and under 1 sec… Correction… it’s 1 sec and a lil bit… still really really fast.