Guild Wars 2

The cast times are just overkill, reducing every shout’s cast time but the elite between 1/4 and 1/2 sec would make them a lot more desirable. The elite shout should be at 1 sec tops.

They are pretty underwhelming.

The heal skill is rather weak on the healing side, but can increase your lifeforce by a lot, this seems to be a nightmare to balance right. Even beside that i think it needs a little more flavour. Its kinda hard to add exciting stuff to shouts in general, but it just feels kinda meh, you fill up two bars and scratch an enemy and thats it. The CD is low, which i like, and with 3/4 sec activation time its quite reliable. Maybe add a bit of retaliation per target hit? Maybe add a debuff on the targets hit that reduces the CD of your next ability that hits these targets by a small amount? Lets say a 5% CD reduction per Target, so if you hit all 5 enemies, and follow up with another shout that hits the same 5 targets, (with the reduced CD trait) that shout will have only 40% of its cooldown, and the debuff is consumed, or you follow up with a execute skill for reduced CD. Would reward the offensive aspect a bit more and add a little bit of “play”

“You are all weaklings” Its also kinda meh, Weakness is nice and all, but its uptime is not to great, and 4 stacks of might for 4 seconds per target hit is bad, it overrides might stacks with longer durations, lets say from fire fields, or traited lifeblast. Depending on the way “Blighters boon” will work it could get us a nice amount of healing (if the trait heals you for each STACK of boon you get this would heal us for around 2660 health) but i wouldnt get my hopes up on that one.

“Suffer”, the CD and activation time are too long for what it does. In the worst case scenario the shout isnt even worth using, 3 seconds of chill and a condition transfer for that cast time and CD? Also it requires you to actually have conditions on you, if you dont you just chill them.. Its not even really good in the best scenario.

“Nothing can save you” Is almost perfect, this shout just seems soso made for “revealed”. “Targets hit are also destealthed and revealed for 5 seconds”

“Chilled to the bone” Is rather meh as well. Its a strong CC and disable skill, but with that Cooldown and Cast time everyone can simply dodge it, or pop a stability (or aegis or blind) and completly waste your entire skill cooldown all during a 2 second cast time with a clear tell. Even hammer stun is better for that purpose really. What would make that skill more interesting (at least for WvW) would be an increased number of targets hit to 10, which would also help with the long cooldown in best case scenarios.

I found most of them to be a bit of a lackluster… Granted, the theme is nice and things are subjected to change… Why they would not make this a party utility? Easy, it would’ve been a band-aid to a core profession related issue – Anet aiming for (finally) reworking Blood Magic to be the support line (with maybe some good party leeching outcomes) is a good thing imho;

• Your Soul is Mine is the first heal for necros that give you Life Force but it is only 4% Life Force per enemy so it is good vs more enemies. - Idea is nice, but it holds no candle to Consume Conditions… This is a general issue Necromancers in the competitive aspect cope with, CC is just way too potent… This would either have scaling life as well, or decrease the recharge for DS/RS per enemy hit as a bonus to make it somewhat viable (reduction for DS+FitG can be really potent)

• Your are all weaklings is your stun breaker, inflicts weakness and gain might on struck foes. You get 4 stacks of might but they are fairly short lasting. - Weakness, good – but the might is an extreme lackluster… Either keep the duration and make it an AoE party buff (will never happen), or make it last a bit longer… Together with the incredibly slow nature of the NecroReaper, this will be mostly a defensive tool, if used at all

• Suffer l transfer a condition from you to each foe you strike and also chill them. - This is one I could personally enjoy, but I would need to see how it plays out… Not terribly good or bad… Should’ve kept the Stunbreak imho

• Nothing can save you convert enemies boons it hits into vulnerability. It will remove up to 2 boons per enemy and give 5 stacks of Vulnerability per boon removed. Also make your attack unblockable with duration depending on the number of enemies it hits (4s if you don’t hit anyone, 9s if you hit all 5). - Sounds good… Got nothing to add, looks really solid

• Rise skill currently summon Jagged Horrors on each enemy it hits which are fairly weak. - Everything that needed to be said has been said

• Chilled to the bone elite 600 range 5 target AoE stun that last for 2 seconds. It has quite of a long wind up so you will want stability on you to prevent interrupts. For each enemy you hit you gain resistance which make you resist conditions. - Resistance should become Stability, but aside from this, the skill is epic… I honestly do not get the complaints at all, this skill is so situational more useful than spamming 1 on Lich or 2 on Plague it is unbelievable. You can AoE interrupt a complete party, though for a short duration, and get your DPS to nuke a target down quickly… Even when they try to escape, the chill does wonders to make sure they will not get far. Maybe a Cooldown Reduction is in order… Just maybe

That said, a lot of potential, but most of them have fierce competitors when looking at the other already existing utilities

Woooo those cast times. I just noticed that…

Knighthonor.4061:

Woooo those cast times. I just noticed that…

Those cast times break the deal for me, gonna stick to wurmy/spectals

The problem with the elite is that the cast time is rediculous.

I mean seriously, look at moa morph. It’s an elite skill that leaves one person pretty helpless for however long it last.
It has a 1sec cast time that is very distinctive. It gets avoid a lot.

Ours is double the cast time, we literally shout loudly to let every know it’s happening.
Even if we don’t get CC’d or blinded, or the enemy uses an evade or block, it’s a cakewalk to dodge a skill with such a long wind up.

I say “why wouldnt I use lich?” Because Lich is extremely straight forward.
For the next 20s, you press 1, can kill everything that moves, unless you get moa’d or they have projectile reflect.

If you don’t have one of the above 2 things, you cant avoid the damage of lich (other then running away).
The shout elite is a single AOE that is extremely manageable. I’d honestly put it on par with people’s opinion of 100 blades pre-release.

With all of the damage potential of the GS and KS (Knight Shroud) I feel that having revved up damage on the shouts also would make the Reaper too much of a power house. Most theory crafters and build makers have pin pointed a lot of insanely hardcore specs already (I know I’ve found at least 6 so far). High damage shouts would be adding something the Necro already has in wells with the same CD’s relatively speaking – Keeping in mind that all Necro wells are dark fields and with the subsequent Whirl Finishers you have equal lots of leeching bolts each healing around 170per (Robert did say that all Siphon effects would heal through KS maybe leeching will be considered a siphon effect?-Someone Confirm). So I understand the devs reasons for making them a true utility and not the source of damage themselves. Personally I like “Nothing Can Save You” and “Chilled to the Bone”. NCSU is an instant damage increase in any team or WvW skirmish fight ripping boons for conditions. This is amplified if you’re going focus offhand for even more boon stripping – Keeping in mind that Reaper’s Touch bounces x4 giving x4 of Vuln per hit on target and Regen to yourself if you’re close (Which you should be since you’re a Reaper) This alone sets you up for some big damage spikes. CTTB, offers a big shot of damage with soft and hard CC’s whilst giving resistance. For those looking for an instacast hay-maker this skill isn’t for you because of the 2s setup, but for those who’re able to accurately predict enemy movements and judge distances (I.E staying within a 2s cast time of the skill to connect) will have no problem using such a versatile skill. Don’t get me wrong though, Lich and Plague won’t lose their place but for Necros who truly master CTTB it will be devastating when used in the correct scenario( Plus you won’t be a huge Lich catching all the aggro!)

On a side note. I’m a human Necro and have always loved Reaper of Grenth although it saw no love from others apparently. With the new trait reworks in place chilling a foe will inflict x5 Vuln. In RoG this Elite hits x10 targets pulsing every 3s in a 240 radius over 15s. This elite can be activated before entering DS. There is also another trait that pulses Vuln every 3s while in DS. Essentially when you start you will definitely be throwing insane amounts of damage out. This is just with a few traits and ONE skill. I explain this because I thought of this in about 1 minute while watching the stream lol. If a Reaper can do this, why would we need high damage shouts? IMO – We wouldnt.

Wondrouswall.7169:

Maybe it’s just me, but “Chilled To The Bone!” to have a 120 second cooldown seems rather long for that shout and what it does. 60 seconds is reasonable, maybe even 80-90, but 120?

The problem is the trait that gives 7% CDR per enemy hit. Anet loves their “best case scenario” analysis, ignoring the “most likely scenario” completely. IF you hit 5 people with the shout, it has a CD of 78 seconds. If it was 80 to begin with, you’d have a 2 second 600 radius stun + damage + resitance (which might be changed to stab) on a 52 second cooldown. In the best case. Thats most likely why it is on such a high CD… The problem is that that best case scenario will almost never happen in sPvP. If it was balanced around the most common scenario, it would be blaanced around hitting 3 enemies, getting stronger than normal when fighting 5 and worse than normal when fighting 1. But nope, A-Net continues their “best case” balancing. At least on Necro.

KashimKudal.2961:

With all of the damage potential of the GS and KS (Knight Shroud) I feel that having revved up damage on the shouts also would make the Reaper too much of a power house. Most theory crafters and build makers have pin pointed a lot of insanely hardcore specs already (I know I’ve found at least 6 so far). High damage shouts would be adding something the Necro already has in wells with the same CD’s relatively speaking – Keeping in mind that all Necro wells are dark fields and with the subsequent Whirl Finishers you have equal lots of leeching bolts each healing around 170per (Robert did say that all Siphon effects would heal through KS maybe leeching will be considered a siphon effect?-Someone Confirm). So I understand the devs reasons for making them a true utility and not the source of damage themselves. Personally I like “Nothing Can Save You” and “Chilled to the Bone”. NCSU is an instant damage increase in any team or WvW skirmish fight ripping boons for conditions. This is amplified if you’re going focus offhand for even more boon stripping – Keeping in mind that Reaper’s Touch bounces x4 giving x4 of Vuln per hit on target and Regen to yourself if you’re close (Which you should be since you’re a Reaper) This alone sets you up for some big damage spikes. CTTB, offers a big shot of damage with soft and hard CC’s whilst giving resistance. For those looking for an instacast hay-maker this skill isn’t for you because of the 2s setup, but for those who’re able to accurately predict enemy movements and judge distances (I.E staying within a 2s cast time of the skill to connect) will have no problem using such a versatile skill. Don’t get me wrong though, Lich and Plague won’t lose their place but for Necros who truly master CTTB it will be devastating when used in the correct scenario( Plus you won’t be a huge Lich catching all the aggro!)

On a side note. I’m a human Necro and have always loved Reaper of Grenth although it saw no love from others apparently. With the new trait reworks in place chilling a foe will inflict x5 Vuln. In RoG this Elite hits x10 targets pulsing every 3s in a 240 radius over 15s. This elite can be activated before entering DS. There is also another trait that pulses Vuln every 3s while in DS. Essentially when you start you will definitely be throwing insane amounts of damage out. This is just with a few traits and ONE skill. I explain this because I thought of this in about 1 minute while watching the stream lol. If a Reaper can do this, why would we need high damage shouts? IMO – We wouldnt.

the shouts dont need insane dps, they need to be on par with other utilities that provide similar benefits.
most are not.

War Mourner.5168:

The problem with the elite is that the cast time is rediculous.

I mean seriously, look at moa morph. It’s an elite skill that leaves one person pretty helpless for however long it last.
It has a 1sec cast time that is very distinctive. It gets avoid a lot.

Ours is double the cast time, we literally shout loudly to let every know it’s happening.
Even if we don’t get CC’d or blinded, or the enemy uses an evade or block, it’s a cakewalk to dodge a skill with such a long wind up.

I say “why wouldnt I use lich?” Because Lich is extremely straight forward.
For the next 20s, you press 1, can kill everything that moves, unless you get moa’d or they have projectile reflect.

If you don’t have one of the above 2 things, you cant avoid the damage of lich (other then running away).
The shout elite is a single AOE that is extremely manageable. I’d honestly put it on par with people’s opinion of 100 blades pre-release.

You say this, but in all honesty – how many times does for instance a Warbanner get succesfully interrupted? Even in Solo-play, not even a third of the community has a clue how to deal with it – added with either the CC from Fear Me, or just a regular Stability, suddenly the person you spent so much time on getting downed is up and running

I get you, the cast time is long for it’s effect, and I would not say no to a decrease of it – but the effect is literally huge…
Mechanically, if you are somewhat capable of using the thinkerbox, shutting down a Lich is easy as cake… The play for it is so straightforward, it creates no oppertunity like Chilled to the Bone does. Will you be able to cast it if you randomly start charging it within a teamfight? Probably not, Warbanners get interrupted the same way – but with some minor coordination (stability is somewhat more accesible now), you can easily pull of something this huge

Sometimes you need to look at it from the perspective of Teamplay – and I tell you, this elite screams “Teamplay” way more than any other elite that the Necromancer profession currently has… Lich has to be played around with, Plague is potent, but makes you very much a sitting duck aside from plague ressing – and this one is an opener, an oppertunity for the whole team to strike down, which leads to interesting play rather than “Heal the Lich while he spams 1”

Again, Cooldown Reduction? Fine by me, but the elite, in my very humble opinion, is really interesting, and really underappreciated

GoogleBrandon.5073:

War Mourner.5168:

The problem with the elite is that the cast time is rediculous.

I mean seriously, look at moa morph. It’s an elite skill that leaves one person pretty helpless for however long it last.
It has a 1sec cast time that is very distinctive. It gets avoid a lot.

Ours is double the cast time, we literally shout loudly to let every know it’s happening.
Even if we don’t get CC’d or blinded, or the enemy uses an evade or block, it’s a cakewalk to dodge a skill with such a long wind up.

I say “why wouldnt I use lich?” Because Lich is extremely straight forward.
For the next 20s, you press 1, can kill everything that moves, unless you get moa’d or they have projectile reflect.

If you don’t have one of the above 2 things, you cant avoid the damage of lich (other then running away).
The shout elite is a single AOE that is extremely manageable. I’d honestly put it on par with people’s opinion of 100 blades pre-release.

You say this, but in all honesty – how many times does for instance a Warbanner get succesfully interrupted? Even in Solo-play, not even a third of the community has a clue how to deal with it – added with either the CC from Fear Me, or just a regular Stability, suddenly the person you spent so much time on getting downed is up and running

I get you, the cast time is long for it’s effect, and I would not say no to a decrease of it – but the effect is literally huge…
Mechanically, if you are somewhat capable of using the thinkerbox, shutting down a Lich is easy as cake… The play for it is so straightforward, it creates no oppertunity like Chilled to the Bone does. Will you be able to cast it if you randomly start charging it within a teamfight? Probably not, Warbanners get interrupted the same way – but with some minor coordination (stability is somewhat more accesible now), you can easily pull of something this huge

Sometimes you need to look at it from the perspective of Teamplay – and I tell you, this elite screams “Teamplay” way more than any other elite that the Necromancer profession currently has… Lich has to be played around with, Plague is potent, but makes you very much a sitting duck aside from plague ressing – and this one is an opener, an oppertunity for the whole team to strike down, which leads to interesting play rather than “Heal the Lich while he spams 1”

Again, Cooldown Reduction? Fine by me, but the elite, in my very humble opinion, is really interesting, and really underappreciated

i noticed in your other post you said 10 seconds, its a two second stun.

If you hit 5 targets you get immune to condi for 10 seconds.

so basically the big deal is condi immunity and chill

with 2 second cast time you are basically trading your lockdown for theirs
the dmg you do, you can do more in the same time frame.

the idea is ok, but the cast time makes it pretty hard to land, and the recast makes it a rarity.

phys.7689:

i noticed in your other post you said 10 seconds, its a two second stun.

If you hit 5 targets you get immune to condi for 10 seconds.

so basically the big deal is condi immunity and chill

with 2 second cast time you are basically trading your lockdown for theirs
the dmg you do, you can do more in the same time frame.

the idea is ok, but the cast time makes it pretty hard to land, and the recast makes it a rarity.

Forgive me, I copied it wrong. I know very well that it is a 2 second lockdown

Edit – I got those from Dulfy, blame that instead of me :<

That said, my verdict stays the same… The idea behind all of them are quite good – but just not there… The oddity of it all is how Cooldowns and Reductions function, paired with effects that are seeminly lacklusters

I like the heal and AoE Boon stripping. I think those have some real potential. The Boon Stripping one reminds me of Chilblains. Which was a strong skill in its day. Having the ability to heal with “Your soul is mine” as well as produce lifeforce is great. Its usually when you need life force too, when you’re low on health. At least enough times its noticeable.

phys.7689:

KashimKudal.2961:

With all of the damage potential of the GS and KS (Knight Shroud) I feel that having revved up damage on the shouts also would make the Reaper too much of a power house. Most theory crafters and build makers have pin pointed a lot of insanely hardcore specs already (I know I’ve found at least 6 so far). High damage shouts would be adding something the Necro already has in wells with the same CD’s relatively speaking – Keeping in mind that all Necro wells are dark fields and with the subsequent Whirl Finishers you have equal lots of leeching bolts each healing around 170per (Robert did say that all Siphon effects would heal through KS maybe leeching will be considered a siphon effect?-Someone Confirm). So I understand the devs reasons for making them a true utility and not the source of damage themselves. Personally I like “Nothing Can Save You” and “Chilled to the Bone”. NCSU is an instant damage increase in any team or WvW skirmish fight ripping boons for conditions. This is amplified if you’re going focus offhand for even more boon stripping – Keeping in mind that Reaper’s Touch bounces x4 giving x4 of Vuln per hit on target and Regen to yourself if you’re close (Which you should be since you’re a Reaper) This alone sets you up for some big damage spikes. CTTB, offers a big shot of damage with soft and hard CC’s whilst giving resistance. For those looking for an instacast hay-maker this skill isn’t for you because of the 2s setup, but for those who’re able to accurately predict enemy movements and judge distances (I.E staying within a 2s cast time of the skill to connect) will have no problem using such a versatile skill. Don’t get me wrong though, Lich and Plague won’t lose their place but for Necros who truly master CTTB it will be devastating when used in the correct scenario( Plus you won’t be a huge Lich catching all the aggro!)

On a side note. I’m a human Necro and have always loved Reaper of Grenth although it saw no love from others apparently. With the new trait reworks in place chilling a foe will inflict x5 Vuln. In RoG this Elite hits x10 targets pulsing every 3s in a 240 radius over 15s. This elite can be activated before entering DS. There is also another trait that pulses Vuln every 3s while in DS. Essentially when you start you will definitely be throwing insane amounts of damage out. This is just with a few traits and ONE skill. I explain this because I thought of this in about 1 minute while watching the stream lol. If a Reaper can do this, why would we need high damage shouts? IMO – We wouldnt.

the shouts dont need insane dps, they need to be on par with other utilities that provide similar benefits.
most are not.

I do agree that some are not on par with others of similar effect, but when coupled with the sheer magnitude of now Mid and short range burst damage and CC support of a Necro – having all of them be on par would probably slide them more into an overpowered state IMO.

KashimKudal.2961:

phys.7689:

KashimKudal.2961:

With all of the damage potential of the GS and KS (Knight Shroud) I feel that having revved up damage on the shouts also would make the Reaper too much of a power house. Most theory crafters and build makers have pin pointed a lot of insanely hardcore specs already (I know I’ve found at least 6 so far). High damage shouts would be adding something the Necro already has in wells with the same CD’s relatively speaking – Keeping in mind that all Necro wells are dark fields and with the subsequent Whirl Finishers you have equal lots of leeching bolts each healing around 170per (Robert did say that all Siphon effects would heal through KS maybe leeching will be considered a siphon effect?-Someone Confirm). So I understand the devs reasons for making them a true utility and not the source of damage themselves. Personally I like “Nothing Can Save You” and “Chilled to the Bone”. NCSU is an instant damage increase in any team or WvW skirmish fight ripping boons for conditions. This is amplified if you’re going focus offhand for even more boon stripping – Keeping in mind that Reaper’s Touch bounces x4 giving x4 of Vuln per hit on target and Regen to yourself if you’re close (Which you should be since you’re a Reaper) This alone sets you up for some big damage spikes. CTTB, offers a big shot of damage with soft and hard CC’s whilst giving resistance. For those looking for an instacast hay-maker this skill isn’t for you because of the 2s setup, but for those who’re able to accurately predict enemy movements and judge distances (I.E staying within a 2s cast time of the skill to connect) will have no problem using such a versatile skill. Don’t get me wrong though, Lich and Plague won’t lose their place but for Necros who truly master CTTB it will be devastating when used in the correct scenario( Plus you won’t be a huge Lich catching all the aggro!)

On a side note. I’m a human Necro and have always loved Reaper of Grenth although it saw no love from others apparently. With the new trait reworks in place chilling a foe will inflict x5 Vuln. In RoG this Elite hits x10 targets pulsing every 3s in a 240 radius over 15s. This elite can be activated before entering DS. There is also another trait that pulses Vuln every 3s while in DS. Essentially when you start you will definitely be throwing insane amounts of damage out. This is just with a few traits and ONE skill. I explain this because I thought of this in about 1 minute while watching the stream lol. If a Reaper can do this, why would we need high damage shouts? IMO – We wouldnt.

the shouts dont need insane dps, they need to be on par with other utilities that provide similar benefits.
most are not.

I do agree that some are not on par with others of similar effect, but when coupled with the sheer magnitude of now Mid and short range burst damage and CC support of a Necro – having all of them be on par would probably slide them more into an overpowered state IMO.

a utility that is similar but weaker is just a utility people dont use. what you say might make sense if you had to use shouts, but you dont.

If they arent good, people just dont take them, which makes them kind of a waste

phys.7689:

KashimKudal.2961:

phys.7689:

KashimKudal.2961:

With all of the damage potential of the GS and KS (Knight Shroud) I feel that having revved up damage on the shouts also would make the Reaper too much of a power house. Most theory crafters and build makers have pin pointed a lot of insanely hardcore specs already (I know I’ve found at least 6 so far). High damage shouts would be adding something the Necro already has in wells with the same CD’s relatively speaking – Keeping in mind that all Necro wells are dark fields and with the subsequent Whirl Finishers you have equal lots of leeching bolts each healing around 170per (Robert did say that all Siphon effects would heal through KS maybe leeching will be considered a siphon effect?-Someone Confirm). So I understand the devs reasons for making them a true utility and not the source of damage themselves. Personally I like “Nothing Can Save You” and “Chilled to the Bone”. NCSU is an instant damage increase in any team or WvW skirmish fight ripping boons for conditions. This is amplified if you’re going focus offhand for even more boon stripping – Keeping in mind that Reaper’s Touch bounces x4 giving x4 of Vuln per hit on target and Regen to yourself if you’re close (Which you should be since you’re a Reaper) This alone sets you up for some big damage spikes. CTTB, offers a big shot of damage with soft and hard CC’s whilst giving resistance. For those looking for an instacast hay-maker this skill isn’t for you because of the 2s setup, but for those who’re able to accurately predict enemy movements and judge distances (I.E staying within a 2s cast time of the skill to connect) will have no problem using such a versatile skill. Don’t get me wrong though, Lich and Plague won’t lose their place but for Necros who truly master CTTB it will be devastating when used in the correct scenario( Plus you won’t be a huge Lich catching all the aggro!)

On a side note. I’m a human Necro and have always loved Reaper of Grenth although it saw no love from others apparently. With the new trait reworks in place chilling a foe will inflict x5 Vuln. In RoG this Elite hits x10 targets pulsing every 3s in a 240 radius over 15s. This elite can be activated before entering DS. There is also another trait that pulses Vuln every 3s while in DS. Essentially when you start you will definitely be throwing insane amounts of damage out. This is just with a few traits and ONE skill. I explain this because I thought of this in about 1 minute while watching the stream lol. If a Reaper can do this, why would we need high damage shouts? IMO – We wouldnt.

the shouts dont need insane dps, they need to be on par with other utilities that provide similar benefits.
most are not.

I do agree that some are not on par with others of similar effect, but when coupled with the sheer magnitude of now Mid and short range burst damage and CC support of a Necro – having all of them be on par would probably slide them more into an overpowered state IMO.

a utility that is similar but weaker is just a utility people dont use. what you say might make sense if you had to use shouts, but you dont.

If they arent good, people just dont take them, which makes them kind of a waste

That’s true, and I hate to say it but there will always be lesser used utilities or none at all. Until someone discovers a nice way to combine them. I see your point though and hopefully in balancing they’ll become more effect in their utility and CD sense.

GoogleBrandon.5073:

You say this, but in all honesty – how many times does for instance a Warbanner get succesfully interrupted? Even in Solo-play, not even a third of the community has a clue how to deal with it – added with either the CC from Fear Me, or just a regular Stability, suddenly the person you spent so much time on getting downed is up and running

I get you, the cast time is long for it’s effect, and I would not say no to a decrease of it – but the effect is literally huge…
Mechanically, if you are somewhat capable of using the thinkerbox, shutting down a Lich is easy as cake… The play for it is so straightforward, it creates no oppertunity like Chilled to the Bone does. Will you be able to cast it if you randomly start charging it within a teamfight? Probably not, Warbanners get interrupted the same way – but with some minor coordination (stability is somewhat more accesible now), you can easily pull of something this huge

Sometimes you need to look at it from the perspective of Teamplay – and I tell you, this elite screams “Teamplay” way more than any other elite that the Necromancer profession currently has… Lich has to be played around with, Plague is potent, but makes you very much a sitting duck aside from plague ressing – and this one is an opener, an oppertunity for the whole team to strike down, which leads to interesting play rather than “Heal the Lich while he spams 1”

Again, Cooldown Reduction? Fine by me, but the elite, in my very humble opinion, is really interesting, and really underappreciated

The difference is banner’s effect is allies.

With the shout, after effectively stunning yourself for 2s, even if you’ve got stability (which is enough 90% of the time for a warrior to use banner), a single blind will cause the skill to miss. A stack of aegis, say from courage’s active, an evade or a dodge – all these things render the skill completely useless.

With the warbanner, they only thing stopping that from working is CC, which stability cover, or killing the guy in like 2 seconds.

Literally every thief in pvp, when they see a necro using the shout will just (assuming the necro has stab) simply use blackpowder.
Hell, they don’t even have to drop the field on us, just the actual projectile is enough to make the skill fail, since the only way we have to cleanse a blind that wouldn’t interrupt the cast, is that minion trait.

War Mourner.5168:

GoogleBrandon.5073:

You say this, but in all honesty – how many times does for instance a Warbanner get succesfully interrupted? Even in Solo-play, not even a third of the community has a clue how to deal with it – added with either the CC from Fear Me, or just a regular Stability, suddenly the person you spent so much time on getting downed is up and running

I get you, the cast time is long for it’s effect, and I would not say no to a decrease of it – but the effect is literally huge…
Mechanically, if you are somewhat capable of using the thinkerbox, shutting down a Lich is easy as cake… The play for it is so straightforward, it creates no oppertunity like Chilled to the Bone does. Will you be able to cast it if you randomly start charging it within a teamfight? Probably not, Warbanners get interrupted the same way – but with some minor coordination (stability is somewhat more accesible now), you can easily pull of something this huge

Sometimes you need to look at it from the perspective of Teamplay – and I tell you, this elite screams “Teamplay” way more than any other elite that the Necromancer profession currently has… Lich has to be played around with, Plague is potent, but makes you very much a sitting duck aside from plague ressing – and this one is an opener, an oppertunity for the whole team to strike down, which leads to interesting play rather than “Heal the Lich while he spams 1”

Again, Cooldown Reduction? Fine by me, but the elite, in my very humble opinion, is really interesting, and really underappreciated

The difference is banner’s effect is allies.

With the shout, after effectively stunning yourself for 2s, even if you’ve got stability (which is enough 90% of the time for a warrior to use banner), a single blind will cause the skill to miss. A stack of aegis, say from courage’s active, an evade or a dodge – all these things render the skill completely useless.

With the warbanner, they only thing stopping that from working is CC, which stability cover, or killing the guy in like 2 seconds.

Literally every thief in pvp, when they see a necro using the shout will just (assuming the necro has stab) simply use blackpowder.
Hell, they don’t even have to drop the field on us, just the actual projectile is enough to make the skill fail, since the only way we have to cleanse a blind that wouldn’t interrupt the cast, is that minion trait.

I see what you guys are saying, but isn’t this true for any hard hitting skill with a cast time. Even with skills that are instant if you know the animation cues its easy to dodge or counter. CTTB seems very much a situational skill that when applied correctly will reek havoc and provide you with some good benefits. Also we don’t know how well this scales with power/ might stacks. This might be one absolutely scary executioner move on mid-light armor classes. So if that’s the case, let them have a chance to run or evade or blind or what have you. IMO it seems like CTTB rewards players who make tactful decisions in combat. I wouldn’t see using it as an opener, I’d simply bait out their dodges chill fear and use it then.

I can see several of the Shouts being really kitten good and Specced with Augury of Death or what its called (cd reduction) but it requires alot of targets to be effective so in WvW thats were they will have the best effect and I will use them for sure.

In WvW I can get 8k+ Healing + 40% LF gain in same time as u get off 1 Consume Conditon for example.

I was not impressed by the Shouts at all. Why? Because they’re clearly being balanced around the “best case scenario” of hitting 5 enemies & being traited with “Augury of Death”. If we don’t meet those conditions most are very weak.

“Nothing can save you!” is the exception. It’s always good…and becomes awesome when the conditions are met.

EDIT: Didn’t notice “You are all weaklings!” is a stunbreaker. That makes it much better than I thought.

Anything longer than 1 sec cast time is too long, 3/4 sec or less would be preferable. The elite shout needs a cooldown reduction, I’d say 90 sec max.

Could we have these shouts scale differently? Make them scale more against the first 1 or 2 enemies so they are not completely useless when you’re not outnumbered?

Rexx.1805:

I was not impressed by the Shouts at all. Why? Because they’re clearly being balanced around the “best case scenario” of hitting 5 enemies & being traited with “Augury of Death”. If we don’t meet those conditions most are very weak.

“Nothing can save you!” is the exception. It’s always good…and becomes awesome when the conditions are met.

Though what you’re saying is true. From a dev point of view to facilitate that the Reaper actually want to go into groups to fight they’d need skills that scaled with more enemies. Although for one enemy your weapon sets and KS should be more than enough I feel. But it is sort of sad that they do falter in lower number skirmishes.

The more i think about these the more despondent I get…

Oh well lets hope we get that great damage that A-net is promising.

That elite would have been good with insta-cast, but 2 second cast for a 2 second effect… :\

They should simply balance it around 3 targets, so 5 will be better than normal and 1 worse than normal.

Shiki.7148:

They should simply balance it around 3 targets, so 5 will be better than normal and 1 worse than normal.

The shout already hits five people. Also we don’t know if the vocalization is called after the 2s or before(Someone Confirm). If its after then it looks like any other regular channel right? Besides applying 12s of chill to anyone is pretty strong. Keeping in mind guys the KS #5 is quite similar to the shout in some ways. So you can see it as having 3 executes if you like CTTB being longest to cast at 2 the others Gravedigger and Executioners Scythe taking 1 1/4s to cast.

I always assumed that the main advantage of shouts were their mostly instant cast times.

I always assumed that mechanically, shouts were unique in their quick cast times. Aside from being categorized as shouts, what difference do shouts with activation times have compared to other PBAoE skills?

Im actually pretty happy about the healing shout. I like the idea of damage dealing heals. I know a lot of people find the new healing shout and signet of vampirism bad, but Seeing as you can avoid most pve damage anyways, id rather take extra DPS when i do need an emergency heal

Darwec.3784:

Im actually pretty happy about the healing shout. I like the idea of damage dealing heals. I know a lot of people find the new healing shout and signet of vampirism bad, but Seeing as you can avoid most pve damage anyways, id rather take extra DPS when i do need an emergency heal

the dmg on these skills is negligable, the only purpose they really serve is to proc on crit/on hit traits.

Personally i think the scaling per target hit should be staggered. So the base effect is better and for each extra enemy hit it increases. But less each time. That way the shouts arent totally awful on single or two targets. But they arent overpowered on 5 targets either. Staggering might not work on rise. So maybe you could have increased damage on rise as an extra feature and make that stagger.

Also im not a fan of the long cast times and the long cooldowns on a couple of them.

In their current implementation i doubt i will ever use them. Except maybe the heal shout in niche situations.

I actually liked all of the shouts, though I can’t weigh in too heavily on “Rise!” since I’m no minionmancer. The effects all seemed really strong, and cast times I can deal with. Even the heal made me happy after I thought about it.

phys.7689:

Darwec.3784:

Im actually pretty happy about the healing shout. I like the idea of damage dealing heals. I know a lot of people find the new healing shout and signet of vampirism bad, but Seeing as you can avoid most pve damage anyways, id rather take extra DPS when i do need an emergency heal

the dmg on these skills is negligable, the only purpose they really serve is to proc on crit/on hit traits.

this may be true, but consume conditions is overrated for pve. I already get by in PVE without it, instead using signet of vamp as a DPS skill totally giving up the heal. The shout does 4k heals which is pleanty of pve, damage, and LF regen. It is very much a viable option for both pve and pvp.

Im not saying signet of vamp or the new shout are the best heals and the only options. I am saying they are much more viable than people make them out to be, and consume conditions is over hyped.

“Reapers Shouts are way to powerful to be instant cast”…. Anet sees them as being quite strong and maybe there internal testing shows that. Imho tho it really feels like they are only strong in 1vX enemies(prefer 3-5) to get the full effects. For solo roaming I really dont see any shouts makeing it bar 6-10.

But listening to the stream for the 4th-5h time today Anet (Robert) things they are very powerful.

The shouts have the potential to be extremely strong. If anything I’d rather they buff their effects (and there are a few effects that could be buffed), but leave the cast times, than have no cast time and force them to be weak.

not really…consume conditions forever on the bar it seems

The only place I see them being used is SH, Hammer train if reaper can manage to stay alive, and PVE if new content is not mostly single boss fights. And those are 2 big IFs.

The shouts have the potential to be extremely strong. If anything I’d rather they buff their effects (and there are a few effects that could be buffed), but leave the cast times, than have no cast time and force them to be weak.

That would be fine too. You are all weaklings needs at least twice the might duration.
Suffer needs a higher base condition transfer 2-3 base would be ideal. Chilled to the bone needs a lower cooldown.

KashimKudal.2961:

Shiki.7148:

They should simply balance it around 3 targets, so 5 will be better than normal and 1 worse than normal.

The shout already hits five people. Also we don’t know if the vocalization is called after the 2s or before(Someone Confirm). If its after then it looks like any other regular channel right? Besides applying 12s of chill to anyone is pretty strong. Keeping in mind guys the KS #5 is quite similar to the shout in some ways. So you can see it as having 3 executes if you like CTTB being longest to cast at 2 the others Gravedigger and Executioners Scythe taking 1 1/4s to cast.

You completely missed the point. Currently they balance it around the “best case scenario”, meaning hitting 5. That where they base all cd’s and casttimes around, which is stupid, as in reality in sPvP it will be mostly hitting 2-3 enemies. Which means they should balance those things around THREE enemies being hit instead of FIVE. Meaning all casttimes reduced by half, and cooldowns reduced on the high CD shouts by 20% or similar. Then in the very unlikely case you have 5 enemies around you in PvP it will be crazy good, if you have 2-3 its good, with 1 its bad to decent. Of course in PvE it would be 5 enemies a lot more often, but who cares if these types of shouts are a little on the strong side in PvE. Especially since other classes can do similar things currently. And as for WvW… Well they would have to test how it works there for perfect numbers.

Actually this is the key word. TEST THE SHOUTS IN REAL SITUATIONS. Not balance them based on theory crafting and hitting stationary golems that are conveniantly piled up.

Shiki.7148:

KashimKudal.2961:

Shiki.7148:

They should simply balance it around 3 targets, so 5 will be better than normal and 1 worse than normal.

The shout already hits five people. Also we don’t know if the vocalization is called after the 2s or before(Someone Confirm). If its after then it looks like any other regular channel right? Besides applying 12s of chill to anyone is pretty strong. Keeping in mind guys the KS #5 is quite similar to the shout in some ways. So you can see it as having 3 executes if you like CTTB being longest to cast at 2 the others Gravedigger and Executioners Scythe taking 1 1/4s to cast.

You completely missed the point. Currently they balance it around the “best case scenario”, meaning hitting 5. That where they base all cd’s and casttimes around, which is stupid, as in reality in sPvP it will be mostly hitting 2-3 enemies. Which means they should balance those things around THREE enemies being hit instead of FIVE. Meaning all casttimes reduced by half, and cooldowns reduced on the high CD shouts by 20% or similar. Then in the very unlikely case you have 5 enemies around you in PvP it will be crazy good, if you have 2-3 its good, with 1 its bad to decent. Of course in PvE it would be 5 enemies a lot more often, but who cares if these types of shouts are a little on the strong side in PvE. Especially since other classes can do similar things currently. And as for WvW… Well they would have to test how it works there for perfect numbers.

Actually this is the key word. TEST THE SHOUTS IN REAL SITUATIONS. Not balance them based on theory crafting and hitting stationary golems that are conveniantly piled up.

Unfortunately, that cant happen until atleast a beta test. More likely it will be theory crafted, released, then rebalanced

Shiki.7148:

KashimKudal.2961:

Shiki.7148:

They should simply balance it around 3 targets, so 5 will be better than normal and 1 worse than normal.

The shout already hits five people. Also we don’t know if the vocalization is called after the 2s or before(Someone Confirm). If its after then it looks like any other regular channel right? Besides applying 12s of chill to anyone is pretty strong. Keeping in mind guys the KS #5 is quite similar to the shout in some ways. So you can see it as having 3 executes if you like CTTB being longest to cast at 2 the others Gravedigger and Executioners Scythe taking 1 1/4s to cast.

You completely missed the point. Currently they balance it around the “best case scenario”, meaning hitting 5. That where they base all cd’s and casttimes around, which is stupid, as in reality in sPvP it will be mostly hitting 2-3 enemies. Which means they should balance those things around THREE enemies being hit instead of FIVE. Meaning all casttimes reduced by half, and cooldowns reduced on the high CD shouts by 20% or similar. Then in the very unlikely case you have 5 enemies around you in PvP it will be crazy good, if you have 2-3 its good, with 1 its bad to decent. Of course in PvE it would be 5 enemies a lot more often, but who cares if these types of shouts are a little on the strong side in PvE. Especially since other classes can do similar things currently. And as for WvW… Well they would have to test how it works there for perfect numbers.

Actually this is the key word. TEST THE SHOUTS IN REAL SITUATIONS. Not balance them based on theory crafting and hitting stationary golems that are conveniantly piled up.

Actually, the first comment they made for the Shout trait that reduces its cooldown was that “If you hit 3 targets, you get the usual 20% CD reduction you normally get from traits”. If you hit < 3, you get less benefit. If you hit > 3, you get more.

Similarly, with the Might shout, you get 4 stacks per target. If you hit 3, 12 stacks of might is pretty good. If you hit 1 – 2, you only get 4 – 8, which isn’t quite as bursty, and if you hit 5, you get 20, which is pretty incredible set-up. The Weakness application is universally good, the boon conversion is universally good, and the condi transfer is about average if you hit 3 players (3 conditions removed, sound familiar?), is better if you hit 4 – 5, and is less effective if you just hit 1 – 2.

So in reality, it looks like they are trying to balance the skills to be good but not great against 3 or so people. And you’re assuming no one in PvP will ever have illusions/minions/turrets/pets/other things the Shout can hit.

Cogbyrn.7283:

Shiki.7148:

KashimKudal.2961:

Shiki.7148:

They should simply balance it around 3 targets, so 5 will be better than normal and 1 worse than normal.

The shout already hits five people. Also we don’t know if the vocalization is called after the 2s or before(Someone Confirm). If its after then it looks like any other regular channel right? Besides applying 12s of chill to anyone is pretty strong. Keeping in mind guys the KS #5 is quite similar to the shout in some ways. So you can see it as having 3 executes if you like CTTB being longest to cast at 2 the others Gravedigger and Executioners Scythe taking 1 1/4s to cast.

You completely missed the point. Currently they balance it around the “best case scenario”, meaning hitting 5. That where they base all cd’s and casttimes around, which is stupid, as in reality in sPvP it will be mostly hitting 2-3 enemies. Which means they should balance those things around THREE enemies being hit instead of FIVE. Meaning all casttimes reduced by half, and cooldowns reduced on the high CD shouts by 20% or similar. Then in the very unlikely case you have 5 enemies around you in PvP it will be crazy good, if you have 2-3 its good, with 1 its bad to decent. Of course in PvE it would be 5 enemies a lot more often, but who cares if these types of shouts are a little on the strong side in PvE. Especially since other classes can do similar things currently. And as for WvW… Well they would have to test how it works there for perfect numbers.

Actually this is the key word. TEST THE SHOUTS IN REAL SITUATIONS. Not balance them based on theory crafting and hitting stationary golems that are conveniantly piled up.

Actually, the first comment they made for the Shout trait that reduces its cooldown was that “If you hit 3 targets, you get the usual 20% CD reduction you normally get from traits”. If you hit < 3, you get less benefit. If you hit > 3, you get more.

Similarly, with the Might shout, you get 4 stacks per target. If you hit 3, 12 stacks of might is pretty good. If you hit 1 – 2, you only get 4 – 8, which isn’t quite as bursty, and if you hit 5, you get 20, which is pretty incredible set-up. The Weakness application is universally good, the boon conversion is universally good, and the condi transfer is about average if you hit 3 players (3 conditions removed, sound familiar?), is better if you hit 4 – 5, and is less effective if you just hit 1 – 2.

So in reality, it looks like they are trying to balance the skills to be good but not great against 3 or so people. And you’re assuming no one in PvP will ever have illusions/minions/turrets/pets/other things the Shout can hit.

12 stacks of might for 4 seconds is NOTHING, You can probably pull off 3 attacks affected by might at best. With blood is power i can get 12 stacks for 10 seconds without no target and a lower base cooldown.
And illusions and the mesmer pets are the only additional targets we’ll run into in pvp. With the turret nerf and the upcoming rooted spirits, turret engies and spirit ranger are dead. When was the last time you ran into a MM and a spirit guardian in a ranked match? I think Ive run into two MMs in the past year or so.

Yeah, as they currently stand, I’m unlikely to touch shouts. Compared to wells, less damage, take 3 times as long to cast, have meh utility, are PBAoE rather than ranged… all on super long cooldowns. They don’t want them to be party support, they don’t want them to be damage… so they either should be amazing selfish utility or on very short cooldowns.

Then comes the problem of how they’re balancing it: they’re looking at 5 targets. The question is when do you run across that?

PvE: Likely when fighting trash, though for trash why take low damage on long cooldowns over wells or signets? Then bosses are only single target. As they mentioned, shouts are “ineffective against single targets”… which boss targets is what you care about the most.

PvP: You’ll almost never run across 5 targets, and any party that has an inkling of how to play is not going to clump nicely for you. You’re only going to have 1 or 2 targets in a small AoE range.

WvW: This you’re almost guaranteed to run against clumps of 5 or more. Aaaaand you’re going to take long cast time point blank aoe moves in the middle of a zerg when you have little stability access and no escapes? You might do the Elite skill, but the others are hardly worth it.

They seriously need to stop looking at the group of robots and think about active play.

Rexx.1805:

…they’re clearly being balanced around the “best case scenario” of hitting 5 enemies & being traited with “Augury of Death”….

Devs have to take all cases into account; this is why they should stop making abilities that are so powerful in that best case (except for occasional elites/etc.). Skills that have more even performance between best & worse case are easier to balance with other skills & traits – which makes for better class balance as a whole.

Also I prefer characters that don’t perform like a yo-yo.

I would say 12 stacks of might for 4 seconds is supplementary. There are plenty of other traits that give Might on attacking chilled targets, Might on using Shroud #1, etc. Plus, the shout also applies Weakness for 6 seconds, and breaks stun. Does BiP do those things?

And calling certain builds “dead” in the meta at this point is just blinding yourself to potentialities for no reason. Maybe they’ll find a place, maybe they won’t. If they do, it’s easier to remember the potential usefulness of Shouts if you don’t just completely rule them out from the get-go.

Also, @Drawing Guy, are you ignoring the fact that it actually sounds like they’re balancing them around hitting 3 targets, not 5? And for WvW, they could work very, very well in all kinds of different types of fights. Disorganized skirmishes happen all the time in WvW, it isn’t just roaming 1v1s (which is actually more often 2v1s), or GvGs with coordinated comps and calls. Additionally, I often stay near the rear of the retreating party because I have all kinds of slowing/distracting utility that saves more people from dying, instead of just trying to not die myself.

And little access to stability? You must not have seen Reaper Shroud’s #3.

GreyWraith.8394:

Devs have to take all cases into account; this is why they should stop making abilities that are so powerful in that best case (except for occasional elites/etc.). Skills that have more even performance between best & worse case are easier to balance with other skills & traits – which makes for better class balance as a whole.

Also I prefer characters that don’t perform like a yo-yo.

I know they do. But balancing the skills all around it is wrong in my opinion. Like you said, it leads to extremely uneven performances and makes balancing very hard.

For example, let’s talk about “Your Soul is Mine”:

When traited & hitting 4-5 foes – Quite good & balanced actually!
When traited & hiting 3 foes – Meh…
When traited & hitting 1-2 foes – Bad!!!

When not traited: TERRIBAD if hitting any less than 5!

Cogbyrn.7283:

I would say 12 stacks of might for 4 seconds is supplementary. There are plenty of other traits that give Might on attacking chilled targets, Might on using Shroud #1, etc. Plus, the shout also applies Weakness for 6 seconds, and breaks stun. Does BiP do those things?

And calling certain builds “dead” in the meta at this point is just blinding yourself to potentialities for no reason. Maybe they’ll find a place, maybe they won’t. If they do, it’s easier to remember the potential usefulness of Shouts if you don’t just completely rule them out from the get-go.

Also, @Drawing Guy, are you ignoring the fact that it actually sounds like they’re balancing them around hitting 3 targets, not 5? And for WvW, they could work very, very well in all kinds of different types of fights. Disorganized skirmishes happen all the time in WvW, it isn’t just roaming 1v1s (which is actually more often 2v1s), or GvGs with coordinated comps and calls. Additionally, I often stay near the rear of the retreating party because I have all kinds of slowing/distracting utility that saves more people from dying, instead of just trying to not die myself.

And little access to stability? You must not have seen Reaper Shroud’s #3.

Well what I’ve seen is them balancing it for 5 players hit. Because otherwise the casttimes and the Elite cooldown would be far lower. They factor in that you get a potential 35% CDR, so you have the elite on a 78 CD. While actually you will most likely have 14-21 CDR , so 103-95 seconds cd. Which is too high for a shout with a 2 second stun that can be broken and has a 2 second casttime meaning it will get interrupted more often than not. If it was like current deepfreeze – no stunbreaks possible – or gave stability at the beginning of the cast and then one extra stack per person hit after the shout I’d say it could be a fair CD. But like this? Nope. Make it 90 seconds base and 1.5 cast… Even 1 s cast would be fair if telegraphed enough. Which it should be with the Reaper screaming at you.

Or, keep the current times except maybe elite CD, but make all shouts and the trait have what they have now when hitting 3 foes baseline . So get at least 3 jaggeds, at least x might etc. And then just scale them with hitting 4 and 5. Because most of the shouts are decent against 3 people, so at least have them decent, not terribad against 1 person.

If Arenanet really want to to keep the current cast times I would like to suggest to split the effects of a shout in two parts. The first part should be allied at the beginning of the shout the second one at the end. You could even pimp the second part a little bit more.

For example could apply “Your soul is mine!” the big heal at the beginning and the gain of Life Force + extra heal per struck foe at the end of the shout.

I really don’t think that shouts work well with greatsword. It’s shorta like hey everyone please interupts me as much as you can!!!

Cogbyrn.7283:

Also, @Drawing Guy, are you ignoring the fact that it actually sounds like they’re balancing them around hitting 3 targets, not 5? And for WvW, they could work very, very well in all kinds of different types of fights. Disorganized skirmishes happen all the time in WvW, it isn’t just roaming 1v1s (which is actually more often 2v1s), or GvGs with coordinated comps and calls. Additionally, I often stay near the rear of the retreating party because I have all kinds of slowing/distracting utility that saves more people from dying, instead of just trying to not die myself.

And little access to stability? You must not have seen Reaper Shroud’s #3.

Did you see the cooldowns on the shouts? Yes, they stated 3 targets equates to the average trait, but even 3 is rare. And that 3 was only mentioned in regards to cooldowns; the power balance was talked about when hitting 5 targets (durations, procs, etc). The shout heal they made a heal looking at limiting the potential against 5, meaning it is just a weak heal with a weak (or zero) life force gain in most situations on yet another long easily interruptable cast time. Yet another heal that wont get touched over Consume Conditions unless they add heal per target to make it a strong heal or add a base life force gain to give Necros a unique access to Life Force. You Are All Weaklings is ok as it is a stunbreak, which gives it automatic PvP/WvW usefulness, if not really PvE. Rise even the devs admitted is weak. Suffer is another one that is completely reliant on the number of targets for effectiveness. Nothing Can Save You at least isn’t target reliant (though hard to tell if it’s 2 boons period, or 2 on everyone). The unblockable portion is the only thing that stops it from being a much weaker version of Well of Corruption. Chilled to the Bone is another balanced against max potential, though the self buff is secondary to the stun and chill. Sadly the long cast and long cooldown put it off the tubs anyways.

As for stability, are you really quoting the stability from a form that removes all your shout access anyways? Are you really going to burn your SK cooldowns to get a maximum of one shout off? As it stands, stability access on Necros is reliant on forms that remove your utilities, so these long cast times for rather mediocre returns will be unprotected in most if not all situations. I am hoping they change the Elite from Resistance to Stability, and give durations that reflect the long cooldown or halve the CD.

Hi again guys. Just a proposal here. Some improvements to make the shouts much more usefull when fighting less enemys.

Trait:
Augury of Death - Shouts recharge 20% faster. Additional 2% faster recharge for each foe you hit.

Skills:
“Your Soul is Mine!” - Heal yourself (4-5k) and gain life force (10%). Addional life force gain (2%) for each foe you hit.

“You are all Weaklings!” - Weaken nearby foes and gain Might (10 stacks, 5 seconds). Additional might stacks (2) for each foe you hit.

“Nothing can save you!! - Remains the same. It’s quitte good actually!

“Rise!” - Summon 5 Minions. The type of Minion depends on how many foes you hit. Cooldown greatly increased (60-90 seconds).
1 – Jagged Horrors
2 – Bone Minions
3 – Bone Fiends
4- Shadow Fiends
5 – A New Minion type (weaker than Flesh Golem) or Blood Fiends

Note: (You can’t use the “actives” like Rigor Mortis, Putrid Explosion, etc).

“Suffer!” - Chill & tranfers conditions (5) to nearby foes. CD increased to 60 seconds.

“Chilled to the bone!” - You are encased in ice when casting making you invulnerable (2 seconds). Rest remains the same.

What do you guys think? I made the last three a lot more powerfull. Maybe to much? :P

I think that Your Soul is Mine! (heal) should become a stunbreaker. That will give it something that the other heals don’t.

Guess I’m an odd one out as I’m actual liking the shouts. I also think the small cast time should be added to all the existing shouts for some counter play.

You have to actual complete the phase, “Your…soul…is…mine!” or “Stand…your…ground!”

It would be like someone punching you in the diaphragm or silencing you. Of course with the addition of counter play effects should be enhanced or cooldowns reduce.

On another note I’m liking the function of shout power levels being effected by number of targets effected (foes or allies). It creates this feeling of power & feedback for the Shouts;

Power
I becomes much more powerful the more targets. This does move Shouts in the direction of primary group play & target rich environments but why not? I kind of like the idea, you could now have 3 types of AoE;

• Target Rich – AoE’s power level increases with number of targets (Reduced vs 1, but Enhanced vs many).
• Target Poor – AoE’s power level reduces with number of targets (Reduced vs many, but Enhanced vs vs 1).
• Static – AoE’s power level constant across any number of targets.

Feedback
You have this feeling of “groupmanship” or “dominates”. Like a prep talk before group sports/games/activities, were you all hype each other up, to intimidating a group compared to solo or just one target.

Of note regarding Necro Shouts directly these fall into the “Target Rich” category and with regards to cooldown times Augury of Death has can have great impact;
Just using existing shown cooldowns from livestream

• Chilled to the Bone! (120sec) – Augury of Death 111.6sec (1 target) to 78sec (5 targets)
• Suffer! & Rise! (40sec) – Augury of Death 37.2 (1 target) to 26sec (5 targets)
• Nothing can save you! (35sec) – Augury of Death 32.55sec (1 target) to 22.75sec (5 targets)
• You are all weaklings! (25sec, Also Stun break) – Augury of Death 23.25 (1 target) to 16.25sec (5 targets)
• Your souls is mine! (20sec) – Augury of Death 18.6 sec (1 target) to 13sec (5 targets)

Also remember these effect apply to any target (up to max) within shout range;

You don’t need to be facing them, you don’t need to hit that skill shot, you just need to be within range.

At maximum targets I’m finding for the shout’s effects cooldown times acceptable on paper. What this really means is if your going for “Target Poor” environments you should be looking at your other utilities other then Shouts.