Guild Wars 2

So I have just started playing again and leveled a warrior that I was playing a little before stopping. Anyway I have an 80 War and my 80 Necro. I have been going between the two for both pvp and pve content. I find playing a dot/control class fun and engaging for me. I like melee, but in this game I am not as huge of a fan as I thought I would be. Using Hundred Blades on a champion or boss and have him get pushed back….most frustrating thing ever especially after popping cds. BUT on the other end, playing a conditionmancer when the boss has a full stack of bleeds…just as frustrating, because now you feel worthless.
So here I am stuck…wanting to enjoy ONE class so I can start working on a legendary (I wont even get started on rainbow staff for necromancers)and spend my laurels on ect ect….so I read forums:
Power Necro=weak
Condi necro=weak when dot cap
MM=lol
life steal=lolol
Now I think maybe the melee warrior will be fun for me because they have great damage. Then deal with the blinding flash that is a boss and hope to stay on him while I’m having a seizure, only to HB and watch him get pushed back after one hit…

I’d love some opinions here, as I am just logging back and forth doing champs. I would probably be playing necro if reading the forums wasn’t so “end of the world necro’s suck”. And have trouble getting into fractals and other things that group comp can matter to some.

Thanks everyone!

PvP necros are great. In PVE it depends on who you ask. In PVE early on MM is great, having no Agony resist and pets not dodging when the master does is a big problem though. But! They make for great body-blockers so it makes your teams job easier and you can still do good damage. Condi in PvE is okay, but the cap sucks really bad. Power is just okay, not much more to say. Warrior/Ele can do it better, and Guardian can do it and never die, so take your pick. :S

Nope, Necro is fine. IMHO it’s a lrn2play issue.

1. condi is good for solo roaming

2. Power Wellomancer is Epic for group play.

3. Condi in Pve is golden just look at Nemesis’s guides.

The only thing I really think necro is lacking is the ability to disengage, without screwing ur build.

It’s less “end of the world necro’s suck” and more that we are not being given the opportunity to live up to the awesome potential this class possesses in conjunction with being constantly ping-ponged around. With that latter statement, I mean it both literally and thematically.

From the literal perspective, we have poor mobility and no block, evade, or invulnerability; so we get focused and CC-d to such an extent that we are ping-ponged around in fights.

Thematically, we’re ping-ponged around by the devs who don’t seem to have a clear vision of what they want the necro to be in this game outside of condimancer. It’s like the necro of GW2 is undergoing an identity crisis.

I play necro exclusively. I love the class. Sadly, I’m coming to the conclusion that I love the class more for what it was in GW1 and not for what it has become in GW2. A case of failed expectations, I guess.

Can necros be competitive and viable? Sure, if you don’t mind playing to a pretty high skill cap; being frustrated by unjustified, out-of-left field, “WhereTF did that come from?!?!” nerfs; buffs to things that didn’t need buffing; and suffering through a complete disconnect between what the class could be versus the direction it’s currently being taken. That’s a lot of hoops to jump through for so little reward.

Warrior, by contrast, will get you invited to all the cool parties and be rofltstomp easy by comparison. Your choice.

I wouldn’t pay too much attention to the forums. Realize that the forums are for two kinds of people: people who feel the class is terrible and come to complain, or people who are very much invested in the class and want to try to make it better (which can often do the first thing inadvertently).

Necros are fine in PvP. Even when we were arguably at our weakest, good players made them work.

Necros are fine in WvW, in every situation, to varying degrees of success and with different builds.

PvE is too easy for you to ever care. But even then, Necromancers are fine.

When it comes to the two PvP modes, just get used to the fact that you are going to be a target. At its worst, you just need to play better than your opponent (oh no!). But it is entirely doable in every way.

PvE, not only isn’t hard enough for it to matter, but we aren’t too far off from other classes. Is it subpar to run a Necro? Yes. Who cares? Elitists or idiots (people you don’t want to run with anyway). Fact is, using minions my Fractal group 4 manned an entire fractal run last night after our 5th quit. And I solo’d the Imbued Shaman after my team died, again with minions (I didn’t kill it, but my minions distracted him while I healed up my team, from completely dead). Necromancers, while being subpar for the most optimized of PvE groups, we actually can provide a lot of safety that others don’t. But again, when the only difference is a 20 minute dungeon run, or a 22 minute dungeon run who the hell cares.

Now, does this mean Necros don’t need a lot of work still? No. But even if you can consider us very lacking in many areas, we’re still workable.

Don’t pay the complaining here much attention. Some have legit points about direction and balance (the two posters above me are good examples).

Most, however are whining in hopes the devs will OP the class like they did to the warrior and take the need for skill out of the equation. -_-

You must remember that the forums are 1% of the actual community playing the game. Players make the class not the other way around. I’ve seen all the so called bad classes be great in all aspects if the game if being played by someone who knows what they’re doing.

I honestly see very little doom-calling in the necromancer forums. Anyway, conditions (any class and any build) lose effectiveness the more condition users there are in a group.

-Scepter is good, if not OP in certain situations/builds (Dhuumfire)
-Axe autoattack certainly needs buffing.
-Dagger is good, but has some of the most difficulty of melee builds in the game with keeping range in PvP.
-Staff is largely fine, but the autoattack speed is too slow for PvP.

-Spite is solid overall, with the exception of Dhuumfire, which should probably be something more control oriented, given the line it is in. This causes Condi builds to be OP at times, while denying power builds a potential grandmaster for a control heavy damage build.
-Curses is great, aside from Withering Precision being very lackluster.
-Death Magic has all kinds of issues and needs a pseudo-overhaul.
-Blood doesn’t need an overhaul, but needs numeric buffs.
-Soul Reaping is by far our best designed trait line, both as balance and diversity/design are concerned.

-Death Shroud has too much relying on it for what it delivers. Depending on what trait lines you invest it it really contributes little as a class mechanic. Soul Reaping builds, for example, get great use out of it, but other builds that might rely on it defensively fall short.

Overall Necro is mildly below average. It needs modest buffs to specific traits/weapons, and mild buffs overall. These failings can be overcome with skillful play in PvE, until an equally or more skilled opponent with a stronger profession come into play in PvP.

Terok.7315:

I honestly see very little doom-calling in the necromancer forums. Anyway, conditions (any class and any build) lose effectiveness the more condition users there are in a group.

I probably did the forums a disservice by reading through the dec 10th changes. many angry people writing in those type of things.

I’m glad to see responses like this an knowing that the profession isn’t totally borked!

tl;dr version:

In solo PvE everything works, Necro in pretty much any spec is fine.

In sPvP and WvW roaming condi Necro is strong, other specs poor.

In zerg WvW power well mancer is strong, other specs poor.

In dungeons d/d power Necro is kinda ok, all other specs suck kitten .

In zerg PvE ( i.e. ) living story all specs are kinda meh, but as long as you get a few hits in it doesn’t matter.

If dungeons are a priority for you, I’d not recommend the class. Otherwise you can make it work, even though you may have to spend some more effort than others.

I saw someone else sum it up quite nicely in a previous post (apologies for not remembering your name; if you’re reading this, feel free to take credit):

“Rolling necro is playing GW2 in hard mode.”

If you enjoy that kind of challenge, then roll necro. If you don’t, then roll warrior.

if damage could knock classes out of stealth and cc had diminishing returns, we wouldnt need any buffs at all. and reverting ds to the way it was….that would help a hell of a lot

Really, the biggest gripes are about defense. Yes, we can facetank a LOT of damage, even on our glassiest builds, but we have precious few ways of extending that. Also, since we have to facetank, CC is a massive problem for us because we simply have no way to avoid it. Easiest way to kill a necro is to CC a him until he dies.

If you read any of the class forums here you’ll come away with the impression that the class is underpowered. ‘Everyone’ thinks their class sucks and only their superior player skill allows them to remain competitive with it…

I’m not going to talk about conditions in PvE, because the whole condition system in this game is so flawed that it is pointless. Lets just say that your power buddies will kill everything before you can even get your bleed rotation going.

For power Necro’s, we don’t really bring much to a dungeon group that stands out as being a big help. People actively seek Guardians and Warriors because they can bring a combo of reliable damage, high passive survival, and amazing group utility in stability, fury, and other boons. People seek out elementalists for their amazing group boon stacking while also doing the highest dps in the game. People want Mesmers for time warp, portals, reflects(which are amazing against a lot of content), and potentially high dps. Thieves bring very high damage, tons of blinds for trash, and group stealth which can be life saving for certain dungeons. Even Engineers, who have pretty crappy damage, are brought to groups because they have the best vulnerability stacking in the game, and also have high utility.

Necro’s just don’t have anything like those things that can help the group. We have high uptime on AE weakness, and we can spam blinds once in awhile… thats pretty much it. Also, our dps is lower than most of the classes I listed, so what is the advantage? Nothing.

As another poster pointed out, PvE in this game is easy(he neglected to mention high level fractals however), so Necro is still fine as long as you know how to play him.

I haven’t experimented with minions in dungeons, but I can’t imagine the HP boost they received has made them survive the massive Boss AE that happens on certain dungeons and fractals. I would love it if minions could survive in group pve, it would give Necro’s something nice to bring to a group. They also do decent dps if kept alive.

Stx.4857:

I’m not going to talk about conditions in PvE, because the whole condition system in this game is so flawed that it is pointless. Lets just say that your power buddies will kill everything before you can even get your bleed rotation going.

For power Necro’s, we don’t really bring much to a dungeon group that stands out as being a big help. People actively seek Guardians and Warriors because they can bring a combo of reliable damage, high passive survival, and amazing group utility in stability, fury, and other boons. People seek out elementalists for their amazing group boon stacking while also doing the highest dps in the game. People want Mesmers for time warp, portals, reflects(which are amazing against a lot of content), and potentially high dps. Thieves bring very high damage, tons of blinds for trash, and group stealth which can be life saving for certain dungeons. Even Engineers, who have pretty crappy damage, are brought to groups because they have the best vulnerability stacking in the game, and also have high utility.

Necro’s just don’t have anything like those things that can help the group. We have high uptime on AE weakness, and we can spam blinds once in awhile… thats pretty much it. Also, our dps is lower than most of the classes I listed, so what is the advantage? Nothing.

As another poster pointed out, PvE in this game is easy(he neglected to mention high level fractals however), so Necro is still fine as long as you know how to play him.

I haven’t experimented with minions in dungeons, but I can’t imagine the HP boost they received has made them survive the massive Boss AE that happens on certain dungeons and fractals. I would love it if minions could survive in group pve, it would give Necro’s something nice to bring to a group. They also do decent dps if kept alive.

MM’s are a bit better in dungeons now but not a whole lot. I only trsted it maybe once after the hp patch. You don’t find yourself without minions the instant you cast them, but there’s enough downtime still that you can get easily pressured when blood fiend +2 other minions are dead.

I completely agree with the power assessment. Too little AoE and no cleave. Low base damage and only 1-2 skills/traits that reliably build might. Not exactly your ideal zerker+might+DPS build toon.

However, I disagree with necro conditions being useless in PvE. Maybe before dhuumfire and torment were implemented. If you’re the only condition character in a group, I believe a full rabid conditionmancer can match if not outperform a full zerker necro in DPS over say 10-20 seconds. Especially if you take into account that all necro condition application is pretty much on 5 targets. Within seconds you can be ticking for 2.5K-5K AoE condition damage for a sustained amount of time on 5 targets without epidemic. Even more dmg and more enemies with 25 stacks of might and constant Epi. Still the spot could be filled by another zerker toon that can easily do 10K-15K+ dmg spikes, but a Rabid Necro is nothing to sneeze at.

Necro support isn’t what it could be in PvE because there’s very little use and application of conditions and boons by enemy AI. Condition/boon control, transfering and converting is useless when there’s no enemy conditions or boons to play with. That seems to be changing with every LS update, making it harder (but not much) for zerker builds to rule the day.

Stx.4857:

As another poster pointed out, PvE in this game is easy(he neglected to mention high level fractals however), so Necro is still fine as long as you know how to play him.

I haven’t experimented with minions in dungeons, but I can’t imagine the HP boost they received has made them survive the massive Boss AE that happens on certain dungeons and fractals. I would love it if minions could survive in group pve, it would give Necro’s something nice to bring to a group. They also do decent dps if kept alive.

High level fractals are hard, but I know of Necros who have done the “pointlessly” high level of fractals that don’t actually give you extra rewards, so its not impossible. The reality is that there is no such thing as a dungeon so difficult you need a perfectly optimized group to run it. As long as you know the dungeon, each person individually has a solid build, and in the harder dungeons that your party has a decent overall composition (of builds, no 5 condi builds, or 5 glass cannon thieves), you’ll be able to complete anything in PvE. Not trying to say we aren’t subpar, but its not like you are barred from a single piece of content solely because of your class choice.

Minions actually live long enough, if traited. Blood/Golem have over 30k HP traited, the rest of the utility minions sit around 26k each, and even Bone Minions sit around 13k. They can actually stay alive soloing any boss without a massive PBAoE attack for a while, which makes them great for pugging groups, because they will take aggro off the inexperienced group. It gives a lot of time for rezzing, they take certain single-target attacks (like Alpha Golem’s crystal thing, which is OP against most pug groups).

Are they great for your really optimized group that you run with every day and you guys have every dungeon down to a science? Depends on the group (remember that all the AoE buffing a normal PvE group will do also applies to the minions, and a Flesh Golem with banners, 25 stacks of might, and fury isn’t playing around). I’d still say your group would probably be faster with another warrior, but that’s pretty much true for anyone.

clown car takes half the time with a condi necro in 70+ fractals. But thats about the only place its worthwhile. At 48 its faster with a warrior.

I don’t think anyone really believes this class is broken – most would agree that it’s fairly decent in all game types, has a bit of build variety and is a blast to play – after all this is why people play it.

There are a few core issues that need to be addressed – they have all been discussed multiple times in multiple threads.

Then we have the PvP forumers whining about condition Necros, so the threat of potential nerfs looms over our heads.

I think most people are largely happy with the class.

Im largely unhappy with high end pve balance and how poor necro is for most of that. But necro is good for build diversity, fun and somewhat effective builds in all gametypes. The problem comes with unshakeable and pve mechanics making control conditions or condition damage really subpar. And also necro being a bit too selfish compared to other classes.

One of the members in my guild has decided to put together a dedicated fractal group, which has the usual of a guardian and mesmer in there, not too fussed what other classes finish off the group, but necro is a big no no! I’ve asked why and for whatever reason I get, I guess I’ll have to find a way of proving him wrong. Either that or find other people to play with.

Were not as promised on the tin when the game came out.

Only class in the game to not get endurance regen (or vigor, or equiv) + no extra evade on weaps + no block + no invul.
So were worst in attrition with 1shot kill mechanics.

Were worst on ‘siphon’ heals. Most our base are around 1/4th or less of other class’s per hit, then the new fix to heal power scaling is 0.004% not 0.1% like other class’s.

Our ‘role’ of condi manipulation took a HUGE nurf. Our boon to condi skill got a cap put on it. The big one tho, is our stuff suddenly got a bug where it only transfers 3 conditions and NOT off others. The fix is promised to be a tooltip fix.

Our strength is being able to apply more conditions than can be cleansed. Giving us a cheap no-counter in PvP.
As you know, conditions are worthless in group situations like PvE world boss’s.

As for PvP, it’s fairly well known, you need a good team to ‘peel’ others of you as CC destroys us, and we have no real escape. (As our ‘defense’ is active/aggressive attack, CC hits us harder than others as it also stops us defending ourselfs/building defense for later).

Anyway, we look cool. Fun to play. Have a role as condi overload if you have a good group. We have no real role, and only excel at throwing lots of condi. Were behind other class’s in pretty much every other job. You really feel it in PvE.

(As for the ‘learn to play’ argument. I’m not saying we can’t do stuff. I’m just saying we don’t keep up. Sure you can eat food to get some endurance regen. But my guard gets it when it crits, as well as hands out might to others. [And has other choices like reflecting the damage back, or blocking/etc])

saxmachine.6024:

One of the members in my guild has decided to put together a dedicated fractal group, which has the usual of a guardian and mesmer in there, not too fussed what other classes finish off the group, but necro is a big no no! I’ve asked why and for whatever reason I get, I guess I’ll have to find a way of proving him wrong. Either that or find other people to play with.

Necro is fine in fractals. They actually can help a lot when played right especially in the stupidly high levels (70+). But if you’re only going up to 48 they arent really worth taking over other classes. But that shouldnt stop you from taking one. They are good in fractals, even in the low levels.

Bhawb.7408:

Fact is, using minions my Fractal group 4 manned an entire fractal run last night after our 5th quit. And I solo’d the Imbued Shaman after my team died, again with minions (I didn’t kill it, but my minions distracted him while I healed up my team, from completely dead).

I was in a 5 man with people who had never run Fractals before. Everyone went down on the same boss, except me And instead managed to save 2 of them and finished the boss with my awesome condition control and damage.

Offensively, the necromancer is pretty good. Power and Condi builds both hit rather hard, and keep the pressure.

Although I feel condition builds as a whole are not in the right place for PvE. This has more to do with how Arena net built them and less with the necromancer. Although the necromancer is directly effected by this.

Defensively the necromancer is seriously lacking. When comparing this to other professions, the necromancer is on par offensively with something like the warrior, But defensively they are the weakest profession. With the lack of reliable movement, no blocks, no evade skills, little/no vigor, no invulnerability and very little stability, getting trapped by bosses like Loopy or that new guy in the TA Aetherblade path becomes a real problem.

You can plan your teleports to keep yourself out of harms way. But this means you need to be more proactive with your build then other profession has to be and you have to be avoid AoE like the plague, always moving. While a Guardian or Mesmer can use their blocks and invulnerability to attack right through heavy damage keeping pressure.

Sigil of energy also becomes an important part of the Necromancer’s kitten nal. As a necromancer, you are lucky no skill roots you for even a second. You are going to need to keep moving so good thing you can do that. Best be nimble to dodge. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgyk71VRoUE

I have a fresh 80 necro myself, but seriously, I don’t know.
Compared to other classes skills, something just isn’t right.
I think we should have 1 more weapon choice. Warhorn is just meh. I have already tons of 30-40s CD spells in my utility slot, I don’t want some more in my off hand.
Anyway, I’m running a power/prec 2x dagger/staff build.
For PvE soloing daggers are pretty good I think. I really like the double daggers. On the other hand, others also have cleave.
My fav is the staff. I think its a pretty decent weapon for both pve and pvp. Marks are really good, and can get a nice burst with them.
I think our signets apart from signet of spite are crap. Undeath active is nice, but passive is not.
My issue is with our utilities are cooldowns.

I have 6 level 80’s,my Necro is about 100 ranks higher than any other of my characters in WvW. I just love the play style compared to the other classes.I am more of a support to the group,and finish of the weakening enemy crowd.

Or my Necro can lead the charge put on the hurt,and pull back for everyone else to finish off.

I get a real sense when playing Necro that we really have to work hard to achieve parity with other classes who can do the same by slowly rolling their face across the keyboard.

Ranged necromancer weapons/skills are heavily based on conditions, this makes condition build the only viable build for many areas. The main problem is conditions are losing effectiveness with more cleanse options with every patch. This means necro is indirectly getting constantly nerfed while other classes are being buffed.

Second problem if you want to roll a “power necro” there is lack of ranged weapons and aoes. Power weapons are melee weapons which a necro mustn’t use, necros can’t enter enemy zerg in a melee range like a guardian or warrior because necros don’t have stability. Current wvw meta is continuous cc spamming with hammers, lightningss you know… Enter in this train with a melee necro, that would be a ping pong ball effect.

Solutions to these main problems ;
*Addition of power(direct base damage) based ranged, aoe weapons.
*Having access to stability more than other classes. Necros don’t have movement, invulnerability, escape, stealth skills and has no mobility, so definitely needs more stability than other classes.

Well after doing a fractal run with this guildie he’s decided to have me on the team. We’ve got 2 guardians, 1 hammer and 1 sword, ele, engi and then me for the trash and sustained condition dps. Initially the reason he didn’t want a necro is because of its lack of utility against bosses around 25-35 and onwards, but with 3 reflect walls in the group I shouldn’t be a liability;) I’m only now lvl 8 fractal so plenty yo learn but should be good.

I can understand a lot of the complaints but it seems with group composition that mostly gets negated.

Necros are one of the worst pvf classes in the game.

Everywhere else, you’ll find they’re versatile except in frontline wvw. This is just because the Death line puts too much trait focus on minions, which will be addressed in the future.

My personal opinion of Necromancer:

PvE: Condi builds face the same issue as all other classes do: slow build up. This means that it’s very weak on trash as it is slower than Power. Bosses then face the issue of shortened conditions, but I’m able to self-stack to 25 bleeds. Rabid gear + Earth + Torment sigils means that each scepter swing can potentially slap on 3 bleeds + torment + burning. Add in Torment ticks and some respectable vuln stacking, and you are likely the strongest DPS on the target. Of course this all goes down the toilet the second condition removal mechanics or more condition users come into play… which leads on to the other option of Power. Necro can do respectable damage through power – but you face the fact that unsupported you do about 50% of the damage of an Elementalist. Once that support comes in, you pass Warrior, but are still short of Ele. Unfortunately in any build, you are coming into the party as the least supportive class in the game (you’re best being traiting blinds to chill and working towards a perma-chill)… so why take someone that has to work for their DPS and doesn’t help the party vs someone that has easy-mode DPS and helps the party? Luckily, all told, it doesn’t matter – PvE is easy; knowing the mechanics of your target is 90% of the ability to beat them and you could complete any PvE content naked (discounting weapons ofc), no trait points spent, on any class if you felt like it.

PvP: Necros are solid here – the PvP scale is within your bound of abilities and support isn’t quite as important as you’re not fighting targets with millions of HP. Conditions are currently the strongest spec mainly due to Dhuumfire. Locust is also laughingly beautiful for point holding. Just face the fact that you’re going to be top target because you have so few survival skills (most of those being conditions that they can cleanse) – just an HP sponge that WILL die if they target you. Though at least in PvP you can actually use Worm/Walk as escapes due to the static fight locations if you’re willing to sacrifice your killing power for running away (and subsequently put yourself out of the fight for half the game and be useless to your team if you plan on only entering fights when those long cooldown skills are able to be set up).

WvW: Necros are absolutely beautiful in WvW zergs – Just run Wells and staff and tag to your heart’s content. In roam fights of 6 or less, you’re still pretty solid since as long as you’re not fighting anti-condition builds, Weakness + Blinds + Chills + DS should keep you going. I’ve even won a fair share of 1vX’s. Unfortunately you face a cold fact: Necro is the only class with no scalable survival skills – no blocks, evades, invulns, etc – and what came close (spectral and non-rolling DS damage) has been stripped away. Add in the lack of real escapes that work in a moving WvW situation, and you might as well lay down and die if a group looks at you and you’re in combat mode.

TL;DR – Are Necro’s unplayable? Absolutely not – they have great AoE in both Condition and Power respects, and that can be used anywhere. And while meta can show what class may have the edge over another, Necro is still within the skill > build range as all classes are. Play what you want and have fun – I for one have all 8 classes

Necro is a great class with a few glaring issues. Well I love playing my necro but have shelved him for a mesmer in wvw roaming for now. The problem is right now people know to focus the necro, our lack of stability and the ability to counter a focus fire make us weak in wvw unless you have someone else whose job is to keep you up.

its now really so much the necro as it is the meta in wvw, lots of cc lots of focus fire so with out high armor, stability or the ability to blink away and stealth its hard to not just get dropped. Necro and Elle both are weak to this and either need to be changed to fit the meta or wait it out till the meta shifts (when buffs and nerds to other class change how others spec)

If anything, the condi necro is massively overrated in PvE.

Conditions are terrible, even without the condition cap, and other classes can stack bleeds and more damaging conditions faster than Necromancer can. Pretty sure Most of the Necromancers actually posting here run some sort of hybrid or power most of the time in PvE.

Not to mention, that, at the end of the day, conditions are just damage and every class does damage and only one class at the time can bring the best damage, and that class isn’t necromancer. Everybody else needs to bring support, of which the necromancer has almost none.

And yeah life steal. Lzzolllolololollzzzxxolololzzzz

They’re awesome. For some reason, in this forum, people can’t think outside condition and power builds for some reason and automatically think it sucks. Mean while, my PvE and WvW build focuses more on healing and critical strikes and for the most part, its awesome. In terms of 1v1, warriors and thieves can carve me up like turkey, guardians can walk away whenever they feel like it, but everyone else I can take if I play my cards right. For warriors and guardians, my lack of power makes sense. For thieves, I just don’t have a lot on the build to counter stealth. The only other time I die is during tower/castle mosh pits where I can’t tell whats going on anyways. It also translates well into PvE with high healing with tons of life saving skills.

Necros are one of the strongest classes in the game.

Complainers are a L2P issue.

spoj.9672:

Im largely unhappy with high end pve balance and how poor necro is for most of that. But necro is good for build diversity, fun and somewhat effective builds in all gametypes. The problem comes with unshakeable and pve mechanics making control conditions or condition damage really subpar. And also necro being a bit too selfish compared to other classes.

Pretty much this, regarding pve.

Add in some clunckyness here and there (no vigor/stability, no cleave) and there’s no surprise there aren’t a lot of necros.

It’s not that is a bad class: but you’ll have to get the best out of it to make it worthwhile, and not a lot of ppl stick to the prof enough to do so when they can switch char and get same/better results facerolling of keyboard.
Well, to each is own.

Side note: in sPvp/WvW Nec is a top tier class, maybe except wvw roaming.

Condi is fine in pve though if you have 1 person who does conds also then you’re kittened and doing less damage than you should be.

Its not “fine” in pve. It works if you only have one condi player. Its “fine” in the sense that any random crap build is fine and can be used to complete content in this game.

Bhawb.7408:

I wouldn’t pay too much attention to the forums. Realize that the forums are for two kinds of people: people who feel the class is terrible and come to complain, or people who are very much invested in the class and want to try to make it better (which can often do the first thing inadvertently).

Necros are fine in PvP. Even when we were arguably at our weakest, good players made them work.

Necros are fine in WvW, in every situation, to varying degrees of success and with different builds.

PvE is too easy for you to ever care. But even then, Necromancers are fine.

When it comes to the two PvP modes, just get used to the fact that you are going to be a target. At its worst, you just need to play better than your opponent (oh no!). But it is entirely doable in every way.

PvE, not only isn’t hard enough for it to matter, but we aren’t too far off from other classes. Is it subpar to run a Necro? Yes. Who cares? Elitists or idiots (people you don’t want to run with anyway). Fact is, using minions my Fractal group 4 manned an entire fractal run last night after our 5th quit. And I solo’d the Imbued Shaman after my team died, again with minions (I didn’t kill it, but my minions distracted him while I healed up my team, from completely dead). Necromancers, while being subpar for the most optimized of PvE groups, we actually can provide a lot of safety that others don’t. But again, when the only difference is a 20 minute dungeon run, or a 22 minute dungeon run who the hell cares.

Now, does this mean Necros don’t need a lot of work still? No. But even if you can consider us very lacking in many areas, we’re still workable.

So you are doing fractal 40+ on your necromancer?, cause if you are i would love a video showcasing it as i’ve been turned down million of times because i am a necromancer. We bring almost nothing to the table (compared to all other professions) but we do have great condition removal though.

Necro is perfectly playable. Issues are mostly end game pve and more competitive pvp. You don’t notice much until you want to farm something fast in pve or perform better than adequately in pvp against some other dudes which aren’t total kittens.

Azzer.8137:

So you are doing fractal 40+ on your necromancer?, cause if you are i would love a video showcasing it as i’ve been turned down million of times because i am a necromancer. We bring almost nothing to the table (compared to all other professions) but we do have great condition removal though.

No, I’m far too lazy to do fractals atm, although I’m finally getting in to it.

That said, there are necros that run fractals at 70+. No class in the game will make your group unable of doing Fractals, only make it harder/more time consuming.

Sadly with the fractal revamp i doubt necros will be worth it anymore. Ill start recording more though, seems i dont lag too badly sometimes.

spoj.9672:

Sadly with the fractal revamp i doubt necros will be worth it anymore. Ill start recording more though, seems i dont lag too badly sometimes.

I wouldn’t be quick to judge on that. Of the new fractals, we know that Aetherblades are very boon-heavy, so necro boon stripping will be valuable (and necros are second to none in boon removal ability). Then there’s the fact that levels 31+ have some mechanic that changes how things work. Quite possibly, a few of these will favor necros.

Aaaaand who cares about boons? The fury doesnt bother me on them. Or actually anything, that isnt protection and its still not a big deal. The 20 stack bleed however … But since Putrid mark went on a trip under the nerfbat and Null Field is still superior compared to Well of Power, well yeah, we are screwed.
I only hope the lvl30+ area will have some nice changes and no more reflect / stability favor.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

spoj.9672:

Sadly with the fractal revamp i doubt necros will be worth it anymore. Ill start recording more though, seems i dont lag too badly sometimes.

I wouldn’t be quick to judge on that. Of the new fractals, we know that Aetherblades are very boon-heavy, so necro boon stripping will be valuable (and necros are second to none in boon removal ability). Then there’s the fact that levels 31+ have some mechanic that changes how things work. Quite possibly, a few of these will favor necros.

Im pretty sure you are giving anet way too much credit for well designed pve content. Also mesmer beats necro at boon stripping by a country mile (lower cooldowns and can sustained boon removal). Necro can only strip and hope the mob doesnt immediately reapply the boons.

Besides even with the boon heavy dredge it was only worth having a necro for 70+ where the combination of their prot and toughness was so high that condi damage and boon removal helped alot. In 48 it was still faster to just use direct damage from other classes to cleave them down (ice bow on ele being really good for them).

I hope you are right and necro will get some more use. But im not holding my breath.

Dalanor.5387:

Aaaaand who cares about boons? The fury doesnt bother me on them. Or actually anything, that isnt protection and its still not a big deal. The 20 stack bleed however … But since Putrid mark went on a trip under the nerfbat and Null Field is still superior compared to Well of Power, well yeah, we are screwed.
I only hope the lvl30+ area will have some nice changes and no more reflect / stability favor.

I’ve got a feeling you still care about the 25 stacks of Might they frequently get. Stripping those is vital.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

(and necros are second to none in boon removal ability).

Saddly no. We are good at boon CONVERSIONS, but there are much better boon removal classes. A sword/X mesmer with boon removal on shatter can remove way more boons with his sword clones and 4 shatters. He can run null field/arcane theivery, and he is a monster of boon removal.

We get what? Spinal shivers times 2, WOC, and CB. All of which have long cooldowns. WOC and Null field are nearly equivalent. Arcane thievery is nearly equivalent to CB, and spinal shivers vs. sword clones/boon removal shatters? Not even close.