Guild Wars 2

Khenzy.9348:

CONDITIONmancers can now burst just as fast as a glass cannon thief or warrior and with DS, great peels, CC and a buffed weakness, you have more survivability than these two, something is just wrong with this. Speaking of strictly sPvP.

If you think condimancer bursts as hard as glass cannon thieves you are either delusional or terrible at math.

Azraeel.1238:

Aberrant.6749:

flow.6043:

Aberrant.6749:

flow.6043:

Aberrant.6749:

I’ve plaid MAYBE 2 hours of necro in total TOPS. I was able to 1v3 with ease (WvW Vs. non-upscaled). Far easier than any of my 80’s.

Looool. No.
I don’t believe a single word of this, unless those 3 were afk.
2 hours experience total? 1v3 with ease?? If only…

I’m sorry, but if that’s a true story then your opponents were total noobs. If they were skilled then a 2000 hour necro pro couldn’t have survived.

I’m sorry I’m not a baddie like most in WvW?

I’m not saying you are bad. It’s just not possible to win alone against 3 people as a necro, and certainly not “with ease”.

Uhhh…. not sure if serious… 1v3 is possible with any class… saw my pal do it before the buff. He agrees that it’s a bit much as it is right now. Do keep in mind that most WvW-ers ARE bad though… ques the video of a lone thief/mes/eng/whatever taking on 5+ people lol.

I don’t know what build you are using, but if you were using Wells, and they stood in it for too long, then you shouldn’t even boast about it. I’ve met in WvW (Pre-Patch) many classes that thought they can go toe to toe with my Necromancer with direct attacks, they stood in my wells for 3 seconds, and that’s all it took to down them. Basically, 1v3 is impossible if the ones you fought are even just half-good, because you don’t have anywhere to go but to eat whatever damage is done towards you. You won’t last even if you stacked 1500+ toughness. One backstab from a thief should push you into deathshroud, which if focused, won’t last more than 2 seconds, and there you go, a dead necro. This is totally disregarding the fact that they might daze/stun you.

Necromancers have always had the ability to eat a few more punches to the face with Death Shroud, but you will still get burned down if you get focused, and you will still won’t be able to run away. The only difference now is that you pack a punch to retaliate, and this is nowhere close to OP.

Wasn’t bragging and I didn’t say OP… but necro (attrition class) doing as much damage as it does now is a bit much. It does need a bit of tweaking but not a chainsaw. Unfortunatly a-net isn’t exactly known for that : /

yup, we definitely seem OP

…underwater.

Aberrant.6749:

Wasn’t bragging and I didn’t say OP… but necro (attrition class) doing as much damage as it does now is a bit much. It does need a bit of tweaking but not a chainsaw. Unfortunatly a-net isn’t exactly known for that : /

I’ve bolded the part where your internal logic is messing up. You were used to necros doing laughable damage and pressure… and now they do damage more in line with the other classes.

This is a good thing, not a bad thing.

Aberrant.6749:

Wasn’t bragging and I didn’t say OP… but necro (attrition class) doing as much damage as it does now is a bit much. It does need a bit of tweaking but not a chainsaw. Unfortunatly a-net isn’t exactly known for that : /

Maybe but it’s not really an attrition class just because someone wants them to be.

Helicity.3416:

Khenzy.9348:

CONDITIONmancers can now burst just as fast as a glass cannon thief or warrior and with DS, great peels, CC and a buffed weakness, you have more survivability than these two, something is just wrong with this. Speaking of strictly sPvP.

If you think condimancer bursts as hard as glass cannon thieves you are either delusional or terrible at math.

Probably not as hard, but give it 5 seconds, and you get your 10000+ damage, which is just as sick.

Necromancers have been reported doing damages and even winning fights ! Definitely need to nerf them cause i can ’t 2 shots them with my perma stealth thief anymore

Kravick.4906:

sas.6483:

I don’t think I understand. Is your real argument that if you time a condition duration-enhanced fear with a Dhuumfire proc in a 30/20/-/-/- terror build you can do quite a bit of damage once every 40 or so seconds?

I don’t find either of them OP. I don’t even find them OP together. However, this is the argument other people are going to make when calling for nerfs, which has already begun to happen. If terror wasn’t OP before, I don’t see why it is now.

People aren’t used to conditions being able to burst like that. When you bring up the fact that terror and burning together do a little over 2k damage per second, they suddenly kitten a brick, not realizing that HGH engineers were doing something similar with grenade damage + conditions (which engineers can still do, HGH has not been nerfed).

Hm. So 2k damage per second (if burning is up), for a fear of say 3 seconds = 6k damage over 3 seconds, if we go 30 into spite, 20 into curses, 20 into SR, get 20% more duration from runes / gear, and then manage to time things correctly.

Meanwhile my bunkered out non-terror build necro gets hit with 2.5k heartseeker spam (yeah, WvW is not sPVP, but whatever), while running around on a baseline 3 second stolen fear.

Honestly, it sounds to me like thief players should quit being babies, stop playing glass burst builds, try speccing some vitality and learn to use some Melandru runes. It also sounds to me like Symbolic is being a bit kittened about this.

Edit: 20% additional duration is required, I forgot about the 30% from spite..

It also sounds to me like Symbolic is being a bit kittened about this.

This is the mentality of a lot of people who play the stealth classes in every MMO. If they can’t kill everything with impunity while still getting away from any situation they feel is dangerous to them, they will whine and cry OP and whatever they can’t kill needs to be nerfed so they can kill it.

Do you guys remember when people called 100 Blades Warriors OP in sPvP?

Fear is removed by both Condition removal AND Stunbreaks.
Once people learn to let the Necro land 2 or 3 Fears before using their Stunbreaks it’ll make the fights look very different.

Not to mention that people keep running into Spectral walls for no reason.
They’ll eventually learn that “WALL = BAD” and just Shadowstep or dodge roll through them.

However I do think that there’s something that was probably unintended.
I think that Dhuumfire’s problem is that it was probably meant to bring up Hybrid builds, but now you see Rabid Fear builds running it.

I’m guessing that Anet valued +50% Fear Duration as more important than it really is.
Personally I didn’t imagine people would just skip it, either.
It’s a great trait, but the Condition duration from Spite traitline just makes it lose value.

If that wasn’t possible then you’d have to trade Greater Marks for Dhuumfire, which would make landing Reaper’s Mark rather tricky as it’d not only be a small mark but also blockable.

IF Anet decides that the build needs a Nerf then I’d like to just see the trait positions changed.
Dhuumfire by itself isn’t OP, and I doubt Terror by itself is either, as it has simple counters.

Here’s an example (disregarding trait name themes etc):
Dhuumfire → Grandmaster Blood Magic trait
I don’t think many use Fetid Consumption and Blood Magic is an OK trait tree for Hybrids but could use a bit of extra love.

Master of Terror → Grandmaster Curses trait
It’s a build defining trait.
Why it’s not Grandmaster already I don’t really know.

With those two changes Hybrids would have relatively easy access to Dhuumfire but it’d be in an absolutely horrible spot for Fear builds.
If you went 30 Curses and 30 Blood magic you wouldn’t have enough trait points for increasing Fear’s duration.

Again, that’s just an example of how IF it’s a problem the two could be separated.

I’m already annoyed with terror being moved to the master tier. The current problem is the application capabilities due to spectral wall. If you think trait placement is a problem, I’d say it’s not primary at all.

Kravick.4906:

It also sounds to me like Symbolic is being a bit kittened about this.

This is the mentality of a lot of people who play the stealth classes in every MMO. If they can’t kill everything with impunity while still getting away from any situation they feel is dangerous to them, they will whine and cry OP and whatever they can’t kill needs to be nerfed so they can kill it.

I main necro, I hardly ever play thief so I don’t understand what you guys are talking about.

Oblivion.8307:

I main necro, I hardly ever play thief so I don’t understand what you guys are talking about.

Can’t chill on close as a necro? Is it the reason why you are so sure and so offended by people disliking your very one-sided aggressive opinion? Yeah – opinion, because right now – it’s nothing else.

Please, read my previous post in this thread if you don’t know what I’m talking about.

I’ve been playing conditions in sPvP all day since the patch, the more i play the more i see people getting better at dealing with us already.

Zerkers are really easy to pick off, some even die before i leave DS after a combo, but people with proper gear are very fun to verse now.

There are still ignorant people though who think they can still ignore Necros damage and let themselves bleed a ton before doing something about it.

My advice to anyone with extremely strong opinions towards one side of this Necro discussion, is to play the other classes first. Back when i was having trouble with Mesmer, i made one and was blown away by some of their damage potential.

If you consider yourself a good player, which most of you probably do, then you can pick up the other classes easily within a couple hours, and you will have a better perspective of where Necros stand in terms of balance.

Tobbygnome.6793:

I’ve been playing conditions in sPvP all day since the patch, the more i play the more i see people getting better at dealing with us already.

Zerkers are really easy to pick off, some even die before i leave DS after a combo, but people with proper gear are very fun to verse now.

There are still ignorant people though who think they can still ignore Necros damage and let themselves bleed a ton before doing something about it.

My advice to anyone with extremely strong opinions towards one side of this Necro discussion, is to play the other classes first. Back when i was having trouble with Mesmer, i made one and was blown away by some of their damage potential.

If you consider yourself a good player, which most of you probably do, then you can pick up the other classes easily within a couple hours, and you will have a better perspective of where Necros stand in terms of balance.

Being reasonable is futile.

leman.7682:

Oblivion.8307:

I main necro, I hardly ever play thief so I don’t understand what you guys are talking about.

Can’t chill on close as a necro? Is it the reason why you are so sure and so offended by people disliking your very one-sided aggressive opinion? Yeah – opinion, because right now – it’s nothing else.

Please, read my previous post in this thread if you don’t know what I’m talking.

i probably could chill on close as a necro.

I think it depends on which playing environment you’re considering. I’m not the most experienced necro out there, but here is my take:

Necros have very specific builds to do very specific things. And in those builds they do them very well. For example, i play a condition/fear based build in wvw. Im probably one of the most effective and useful players in zerg fights, but if you catch me solo running back to the group, or i have to contribute to a group fight, im easily one of the least useful people on the field. Combine that with our f-ed up down state and im by far the worst in small scale combat. Put me in a zerg ball though and kitten im probably one of THE most useful characters out there. I think the spectral wall buff is a tad bit much on top of everything else they have available to them, but im loving it. Compare that to a minion master. Super good in small scale or solo combat, completely useless in large scale fights. Power builds seem to do very well in PvE dungeon scenerios.

I kind of like this mindset though, makes you switch it up and know your class really well, in comparison say, to my main too – guardian, which basically has 1 or 2 gear sets and builds to do absolutely everything in the game and do it very well.

In the end, i do think that necros are out performing alot of other classes in the WvW setting right now, but its not game breaking by any means. Enjoy the buffs Necros! who knows what the next balance patch will bring

I play mainly 2 classes, Necro and Ranger, been on my ranger all day and I don’t know if its the player I am facing but necro is better than before but yet to lose one..

By better I mean they do more dps and burst but its just not there 1v1 yet…

Then again a Power Ranger is a really good build 1v1 so no Necro is not OP.

Khenzy.9348:

CONDITIONmancers can now burst just as fast as a glass cannon thief or warrior and with DS, great peels, CC and a buffed weakness, you have more survivability than these two, something is just wrong with this. Speaking of strictly sPvP.

I agree our damage is high, but your claim about survivability is wrong. Necromancers still drop to focus fire faster than anyone else. It’s not totally unmanageable, especially with proper peels, but it’s a big weakness.

I posted this on the structured PvP forums, and I think it’s relevant here:

I already saw more people today focus down necromancers and destroy them. That weakness is still very apparent in the class.

While I would be OK with a nerf to Terror, Doom and Spectral Wall, I think it’s something that has to be approached carefully. If people continuing focusing necromancers down as they should, then necromancers need massive counter-pressure to be able to respond, particularly since the class doesn’t and shouldn’t have mobility because it would defy the class’s theme of attrition.

The people calling for a nerf to Dhuumfire are simply wrong, though. Burning is necessary for condition builds in the metagame. That’s why necromancers had to run with engineers last patch. It’s not even about the damage, although that is quite nice; it’s about splitting the class’s source of condition damage so it isn’t all on one condition that can be easily cleansed. To that end, Terror would have to go before Dhuumfire.

Still, Dhuumfire could definitely be replaced with a trait that applies three stacks of Torment on a critical hit on a 10-second cooldown. That would be a slight nerf, and it would fit with the theme of the class.

Tobbygnome.6793:

I’ve been playing conditions in sPvP all day since the patch, the more i play the more i see people getting better at dealing with us already.

Zerkers are really easy to pick off, some even die before i leave DS after a combo, but people with proper gear are very fun to verse now.

There are still ignorant people though who think they can still ignore Necros damage and let themselves bleed a ton before doing something about it.

My advice to anyone with extremely strong opinions towards one side of this Necro discussion, is to play the other classes first. Back when i was having trouble with Mesmer, i made one and was blown away by some of their damage potential.

If you consider yourself a good player, which most of you probably do, then you can pick up the other classes easily within a couple hours, and you will have a better perspective of where Necros stand in terms of balance.

I play every class in the entire game. Necromancer is currently the best class in the game. No other class can match it’s output, while still taking as much input as it can. It’s to the point to where I can’t play any of my Warriors in tPvP, or even my Ranger. I had enormous condition cleanses on my Mesmer and I will still get dominated by a Terrormancer. I’m FORCED to play one of my Necromancers just to compete.

My best build prepatch was my Potentate, I thought that build was borderline OP by the way I could dispatch people. This? It feels like I’m cheating.

Necromancer has always been my best class, but this is just awful. I wanted BUG FIXES not buffs.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Tobbygnome.6793:

I’ve been playing conditions in sPvP all day since the patch, the more i play the more i see people getting better at dealing with us already.

Zerkers are really easy to pick off, some even die before i leave DS after a combo, but people with proper gear are very fun to verse now.

There are still ignorant people though who think they can still ignore Necros damage and let themselves bleed a ton before doing something about it.

My advice to anyone with extremely strong opinions towards one side of this Necro discussion, is to play the other classes first. Back when i was having trouble with Mesmer, i made one and was blown away by some of their damage potential.

If you consider yourself a good player, which most of you probably do, then you can pick up the other classes easily within a couple hours, and you will have a better perspective of where Necros stand in terms of balance.

I play every class in the entire game. Necromancer is currently the best class in the game. No other class can match it’s output, while still taking as much input as it can. It’s to the point to where I can’t play any of my Warriors in tPvP, or even my Ranger. I had enormous condition cleanses on my Mesmer and I will still get dominated by a Terrormancer. I’m FORCED to play one of my Necromancers just to compete.

My best build prepatch was my Potentate, I thought that build was borderline OP by the way I could dispatch people. This? It feels like I’m cheating.

Necromancer has always been my best class, but this is just awful. I wanted BUG FIXES not buffs.

Did you consider it might be the way you enjoy playing that leads to that result? I have the exact same results as you but on my power ranger…As much burst and damage as necro puts out now, and they do put out ridiculous amount of pressure very quickly they are can not roam against a Ranger. I use that measure because it seems builds that are great 1vx get nurfed, while great group builds like terror dont get nurfed.

As Altroll says, the real OP side of necro at the moment is it’s terror capabilities.

I’m not sure how I’d go about balancing this, maybe Doom on a 30 second CD and spectral wall fear time reduced to 1/2 a second.

As for Death Shroud damage increases, I’m undecided…it certainly is hard to get DS #1 off successfully multiple times in tPvp, so the damage now which is about 3-4k in zerker build seems high, but maybe not undeservedly high.

Currently though, terrormancers appear to be the strongest class/build in the game.

I like the idea that necros could really use a fear chain to down an opponent, but it’s being spammed in tpvp at the moment for quite a devastating effect.

Are you kitten serious? Let us not forget about PvE okay?
All I hear is sPvP and WvW, but we needed those buffs for PVE AS WELL!!

I can still land 10k BS and 6k with health <25% on dungeon bosses on my thief.
I can still do 8k all around with whirlwind and 2k-3k AOE autoattack on my Axe Axe warrior.
When it comes to my Necromancer, although the damage is mostly single, but at least now I can feel like I’m doing a bit more damage with Death Claw and Life Blast. We needed that kitten buff so much.

1- Fear: It can be easily cleansed, and after those 3 fear sources used, you need a bit of time to be able to use them again. Guardian shouts (if traited) and Warrior Shake it off can easily counter that fear for all the group.

2- Survivability: Hybrid and ConditionFire builds got barely any survivability. Death Shroud will not save your kitten especially if you get focused.

3- Damage: Even with all the buffs, a group of warriors will still finish a dungeon faster than a group of Necromancers.

4- Mobility: You will still need to fight till you either kill your opponent or die trying.

5- Underwater OP? Who the hell even cares about Underwater? Necromancers have always been “OP” underwater because of minions and DS. Nobody nagged before about it. Why now?

6- Combo: Using a combination of skills to make the most out of your damage is found in all of the other classes. Thieves, mesmers, Guardians… all excel in it. So if you manage to use your spectral wall + fear and it succeeds on your opponent, that’s like succeeding in Steal+CnD+ BS on someone, or Immobilize and Shatter your clones on Mesmer.

7- Spectral Wall: Easily countered with stability and Breakstuns, and as someone else have confirmed, stability gets removed last, so good luck trying to take it off.

Stop trying to sound like Necromancer is the best class out there, we are good now, but not even close to being OP.

To all those who claim to main a Necromancer and think they are OP, either enjoy your “OP class” and shut up, or gtfo

Tired of all this “OP this OP that” crap!

Azraeel.1238:

Are you kitten serious? Let us not forget about PvE okay?
All I hear is sPvP and WvW, but we needed those buffs for PVE AS WELL!!

I can still land 10k BS and 6k with health <25% on dungeon bosses on my thief.
I can still do 8k all around with whirlwind and 2k-3k AOE autoattack on my Axe Axe warrior.
When it comes to my Necromancer, although the damage is mostly single, but at least now I can feel like I’m doing a bit more damage with Death Claw and Life Blast. We needed that kitten buff so much.

1- Fear: It can be easily cleansed, and after those 3 fear sources used, you need a bit of time to be able to use them again. Guardian shouts (if traited) and Warrior Shake it off can easily counter that fear for all the group.

2- Survivability: Hybrid and ConditionFire builds got barely any survivability. Death Shroud will not save your kitten especially if you get focused.

3- Damage: Even with all the buffs, a group of warriors will still finish a dungeon faster than a group of Necromancers.

4- Mobility: You will still need to fight till you either kill your opponent or die trying.

5- Underwater OP? Who the hell even cares about Underwater? Necromancers have always been “OP” underwater because of minions and DS. Nobody nagged before about it. Why now?

6- Combo: Using a combination of skills to make the most out of your damage is found in all of the other classes. Thieves, mesmers, Guardians… all excel in it. So if you manage to use your spectral wall + fear and it succeeds on your opponent, that’s like succeeding in Steal+CnD+ BS on someone, or Immobilize and Shatter your clones on Mesmer.

7- Spectral Wall: Easily countered with stability and Breakstuns, and as someone else have confirmed, stability gets removed last, so good luck trying to take it off.

Stop trying to sound like Necromancer is the best class out there, we are good now, but not even close to being OP.

To all those who claim to main a Necromancer and think they are OP, either enjoy your “OP class” and shut up, or gtfo

Tired of all this “OP this OP that” crap!

I told you that wall change is dangerous and look where it gets us!!!

I was running a terrormancer pre patch and my build got a bit screwed with the terror move that I lost 10 traits points but we get fear wall and improved doom and torment, that’s pretty much it.

If we take burning? Well it has again torment+improved doom+wall, that build has no proper LF generation kind of so is squishy. But people are screaming in agony and lots of necros are freaking out as well saying we are OP. The main culprits are that wall and the amount of necros running around.

Outside of those things + spectral walk and armor effect staying in DS, nothing’s really changed that much.

It is only dangerous because people still fail at countering it. You only have two tries to get that person to hit the wall, else your whole combo is a waste. Those who run into it willingly are dumbkittens.

Azraeel.1238:

It is only dangerous because people still fail at countering it. You only have two tries to get that person to hit the wall, else your whole combo is a waste. Those who run into it willingly are dumbkittens.

I’ll have to agree with him. Spectral wall change is not the problem. The problem is the insane amount of damage a terrormancer with BURN (30/30/10/0/0) not (0/30/10/0/30)
can put up. ArenaNet will either have to remove Burn and remplace it with torment, or cut terror damage by half.

Smallpox was OP until it was cured now it’s extinct.
Necros on the board say it all the time ….
Fear is both a condi and a CC . You can double dip it , defence wise, to counter it.

Power Necros are balanced, great buff, hell yeah tpvp i come.

No one right now knows, if they say Necro is overpowered, balanced or underpowered they are talking out of their kitten .

The patch just happend, new mechanics were introduced, a lot of changes made. To little time has passed for potential new builds to emerge that the community as a whole is not yet aware of, but proves to be exceedingly effective.

Time will tell.

Poplolita.2638:

Azraeel.1238:

It is only dangerous because people still fail at countering it. You only have two tries to get that person to hit the wall, else your whole combo is a waste. Those who run into it willingly are dumbkittens.

I’ll have to agree with him. Spectral wall change is not the problem. The problem is the insane amount of damage a terrormancer with BURN (30/30/10/0/0) not (0/30/10/0/30)
can put up. ArenaNet will either have to remove Burn and remplace it with torment, or cut terror damage by half.

So basically, someone going full glass cannon shouldn’t do “insane amount of damage”? 30/30/10… is a glass cannon build, at least the 30/x/x/x/30 build has DS to rely on a bit.

I highly doubt we will even see posts such as, “How can I defeat terrormancer?” Cause it is very obvious…

LastDay.3524:

Do you guys remember when people called 100 Blades Warriors OP in sPvP?

Fear is removed by both Condition removal AND Stunbreaks.
Once people learn to let the Necro land 2 or 3 Fears before using their Stunbreaks it’ll make the fights look very different.

Not to mention that people keep running into Spectral walls for no reason.
They’ll eventually learn that “WALL = BAD” and just Shadowstep or dodge roll through them.

However I do think that there’s something that was probably unintended.
I think that Dhuumfire’s problem is that it was probably meant to bring up Hybrid builds, but now you see Rabid Fear builds running it.

I’m guessing that Anet valued +50% Fear Duration as more important than it really is.
Personally I didn’t imagine people would just skip it, either.
It’s a great trait, but the Condition duration from Spite traitline just makes it lose value.

If that wasn’t possible then you’d have to trade Greater Marks for Dhuumfire, which would make landing Reaper’s Mark rather tricky as it’d not only be a small mark but also blockable.

IF Anet decides that the build needs a Nerf then I’d like to just see the trait positions changed.
Dhuumfire by itself isn’t OP, and I doubt Terror by itself is either, as it has simple counters.

Here’s an example (disregarding trait name themes etc):
Dhuumfire -> Grandmaster Blood Magic trait
I don’t think many use Fetid Consumption and Blood Magic is an OK trait tree for Hybrids but could use a bit of extra love.

Master of Terror -> Grandmaster Curses trait
It’s a build defining trait.
Why it’s not Grandmaster already I don’t really know.

With those two changes Hybrids would have relatively easy access to Dhuumfire but it’d be in an absolutely horrible spot for Fear builds.
If you went 30 Curses and 30 Blood magic you wouldn’t have enough trait points for increasing Fear’s duration.

Again, that’s just an example of how IF it’s a problem the two could be separated.

The problem you have is, aNet do not seem to take player skill or lack of skill into equation. Same thing happened with Confusion, people cried because they couldn’t keep spamming through it without even attempting to either cleanse or just stop attacking, so aNet nerfed it. I would imagine they will do the same with the fear builds. Because people don’t like to use stun-breaks or it’s do difficult to avoid a wall.

I do have a Necro, it’s not my main but I have been playing around with it since the patch. I have also been on my main characters and I am glad Necro’s have been buffed to a point where they are ON PAR with some professions, I welcome the challenge, I also use stun-breaks and can avoid walls :P

They are definitely really strong right now. Are they OP? I don’t know, it’s still too early imo. Wait a few weeks and see how the meta adapts to the changes. If they are still that strong compared to other professions they might be a little OP.

Blackhat.4016:

They are definitely really strong right now. Are they OP? I don’t know, it’s still too early imo. Wait a few weeks and see how the meta adapts to the changes. If they are still that strong compared to other professions they might be a little OP.

Yeah this is definitely true.
I can’t count how many silly people have ran into my Spectral walls without me doing anything to Fear them into them.

It will take time for people to learn and theorycrafting is rarely if ever as accurate as actually seeing how things play out.

I think we are good now but not OP.

Our offensive pressure is insane, and most likely Dhuumfire will get a nerf when they start actually fixing our defenses. The problem right now is people can’t handle the pressure we put out, and so forget that at the end of the day, Necromancers haven’t been made any less squishy directly. We did get a few attrition buffs, but at the end of the day you are going down the instant you step out of positioning with the current meta builds.

Bhawb.7408:

Our offensive pressure is insane, and most likely Dhuumfire will get a nerf when they start actually fixing our defenses. The problem right now is people can’t handle the pressure we put out…

So again, I would like to know exactly how our offensive pressure is insane, and why it is insane with respect to what other classes can do. Keep in mind that a 2 rune investment in Melandru can cut terror damage by 1/2 to 1/3rd. Dhuumfire hits one target and one target only, and that 2 rune investment can cut its damage by 1/4th to 1/8th. On the other hand, you have to entirely gear in toughness to get a comparable reduction in non-condition damage.

necros, your good, to be honest its been a long time coming, now as a mesmer i have a very hard time with you necro’s since patch (a welcome change, by the way!)

however the ONLY thing i am finding difficult to survive is all the conditions, mesmers are notoriously weak to fast condition applying professions or builds its not your direct damage and 1v1 i can still win i just end up with a small hp pool as opposed to what it was before (near full).

now i say conditions because Necro’s damage has dramatically changed since patch and i have not had a chance to test out the necro just yet to find out where its coming from and produce a counter, currently instead of portal/mirror i now run with Null Field, if i use this wrong im dead, i also took some condition removing traits and things seem, dare i say it pretty balanced between a 1v1 mes/necro at the moment from my experience.

Necro’s are not OP in my opinion, there much better and they can burst now like most other classes with certain builds, which is good, you know why shouldn’t they be able too?

Give Necro’s more defense and lower there burst somewhat but make them terrifying god kitten it there meant to be scary, make them so you have to think twice about engaging, as lets be honest once engaged (or once the necro engages) there is little way to escape the fight you guys have to dedicate!

I don’t seem them nerfing dumbfire… its a GM level trait, really the only good trait in that entire line for a condition necro. If they nerf it, people will just throw all there eggs back in the terror basket, which will put us back where we were pre-patch, but with more LF generation, longer terror, etc.

The fix is to reduce the damage that terror deals. Put it back to X damage from fear, and take away the extra damage on condition component like it used to be, and everyone can stop the crying.

Please no cooldown increase on doom… we already have painful cooldowns, and that would basically force me to take 10 points in SR for the reduction. Also if you miss doom, now you are down your only reliable disable for 30 seconds…. no thanks. Other classes have stuns etc on much shorter cooldowns.

People will figure out that not taking stability, not anticipating the fear, and not taking condition removal/stun break is going to be bad against a necro. This is no different than everyone who played glassy, then discovered that backstab thieves would 2 shot them, so they stopped. People who didn’t anticipate the CnD…. etc etc.

Don’t be upset that we are strong enough now that people actually need to consider and counter us, as opposed to just ignoring us. They will figure out a way to reduce our offensive power without messing with our control. Reducing terror damage and possibly putting doom back to 1 second base would be fine.

Rennoko.5731:

The fix is to reduce the damage that terror deals. Put it back to X damage from fear, and take away the extra damage on condition component like it used to be, and everyone can stop the crying.

This is the wrong fix. It will hurt terror condi builds in every part of the game but 1v1 duels over points.

People will figure out that not taking stability, not anticipating the fear, and not taking condition removal/stun break is going to be bad against a necro. This is no different than everyone who played glassy, then discovered that backstab thieves would 2 shot them, so they stopped. People who didn’t anticipate the CnD…. etc etc.

This is the right fix, but people don’t want to hear it.

An acceptable fix would be to reduce doom to a 1 second baseline. To appease kittens it might be reasonable to adjust spectral wall.

Seriously – we just got something that provides a small bit of help in one part of the game. That small bit of help is easily managed if people drop their glass builds. Furthermore, as far as I can tell, that small bit of help almost puts us on par with what other classes can do, and have been able to do. To get that small bit of help, it is necessary to go 30 points into a tree that wasn’t amazing to begin with.

I ran into one of the new terror necros the other day. I run -40% condition duration food. The new terror build was not very impressive.

sas.6483:

Rennoko.5731:

The fix is to reduce the damage that terror deals. Put it back to X damage from fear, and take away the extra damage on condition component like it used to be, and everyone can stop the crying.

This is the wrong fix. It will hurt terror condi builds in every part of the game but 1v1 duels over points.

People will figure out that not taking stability, not anticipating the fear, and not taking condition removal/stun break is going to be bad against a necro. This is no different than everyone who played glassy, then discovered that backstab thieves would 2 shot them, so they stopped. People who didn’t anticipate the CnD…. etc etc.

This is the right fix, but people don’t want to hear it.

An acceptable fix would be to reduce doom to a 1 second baseline. To appease kittens it might be reasonable to adjust spectral wall.

Seriously – we just got something that provides a small bit of help in one part of the game. That small bit of help is easily managed if people drop their glass builds. Furthermore, as far as I can tell, that small bit of help almost puts us on par with what other classes can do, and have been able to do. To get that small bit of help, it is necessary to go 30 points into a tree that wasn’t amazing to begin with.

I ran into one of the new terror necros the other day. I run -40% condition duration food. The new terror build was not very impressive.

wvw is imbalanced

wvw is imbalanced

So is sPvP and PvE. What of it?

sas.6483:

I run -40% condition duration food.

Right. You get two extra slots in WvW, one of which I choose to fill with -40% condition food. In sPvP, you can get -25% condition duration if you choose to.

Lopez.7369:

Still, Dhuumfire could definitely be replaced with a trait that applies three stacks of Torment on a critical hit on a 10-second cooldown. That would be a slight nerf, and it would fit with the theme of the class.

Would still be a downgrade for coverage, since going down power you have lots of duration, it means our DS-5 Torment lasts a long time and would often overlap with the on crit Torment, not actually giving us the additional coverage burning does.

That’s the whole point. Our coverage is too strong with both burning and torment. Throw terror in there and the damage is unmanageable.

Bhawb.7408:

Our offensive pressure is insane, and most likely Dhuumfire will get a nerf when they start actually fixing our defenses.

If they want to fix us to be real attrition, fine. But don’t see how if they won’t give us mobility, Vigor, or Stability in larger quantities.

Otherwise, gonna have to stay a juggernaut on offense, as its basically ‘kill them before they kill you’.

Necromancers haven’t been made any less squishy directly.

And actually we got a lot more squishy for most of the new builds people are going for.

Lopez.7369:

That’s the whole point. Our coverage is too strong with both burning and torment. Throw terror in there and the damage is unmanageable.

Seriously, I recommend all the necros who are seeming to have hysterical reactions to how OP we supposedly are think through the following questions:

What were the changes to our damage dealing capabilities?
Exactly how much damage is done now vs before?
Under what circumstances will that increase in damage be observed?
Exactly what do we have to give up to get that increase in damage?
Why does the increase in damage suddenly make it unmanageable?
Why is it impossible for other classes to attenuate or otherwise compensate for the increase in damage, and why should they not have to make an effort to do so?
Finally, how is the damage less manageable than what other classes are capable of, and what are the things that we have been forced to do to attenuate that damage?

Homonavn.6348:

Well, the no brain build is KIND of true IMO.. Sucks to say it, but the 30/0/10/0/30 thing or something along that is kind of skilless…

You just fear down and auto attack in DS to do like 10k DPS…

Had to log in to LMFAO to this…

sas.6483:

Lopez.7369:

That’s the whole point. Our coverage is too strong with both burning and torment. Throw terror in there and the damage is unmanageable.

Seriously, I recommend all the necros who are seeming to have hysterical reactions to how OP we supposedly are think through the following questions:

What were the changes to our damage dealing capabilities?
Exactly how much damage is done now vs before?
Under what circumstances will that increase in damage be observed?
Exactly what do we have to give up to get that increase in damage?
Why does the increase in damage suddenly make it unmanageable?
Why is it impossible for other classes to attenuate or otherwise compensate for the increase in damage, and why should they not have to make an effort to do so?
Finally, how is the damage less manageable than what other classes are capable of, and what are the things that we have been forced to do to attenuate that damage?

Its the combination of the three large universal buffs for condition necromancer. If any one of the three had been one 1 at a time, over the course of several patches, it would have been easier to gauge the effect on the overall game.

1. Longer doom – Big buff for conditions, minor buff for power. A needed change in my opinion.
2. Burning – massive buff for conditions, no real effect on power.
3. New condition, and new skill – Good buff to conditions, meh buff to power.

Three substantial buffs to a build that was already established = destabilizing the PVP world. If they had done buffs that were meh for conditions and YAY for power, you wouldn’t see this reaction, because power is much less effective in the PVP scene right now.

To be clear, they really should have focused on the quality of life improvements, add the new skill and condition, then re-evaluate. Where we are now is just flamebait.