Guild Wars 2

The following was a response to this post. However, as it grew in scope, it warranted its own topic in order to avoid a derailment in the parent thread.

Rennoko.5731:

Bhawb.7408:

spoj.9672:

Making axe 3 a blast finisher would be a massive step forward for necros in pve. Heck making warhorn 4/5 a blast finisher should also be considered.

Making warhorn 4 a blast finisher would be interesting, and I think perfectly fine.

Not saying that Axe 3 shouldn’t be a blast btw, just feels a bit strong already. I feel like axe needs more help than that (axe AA needs to be reworked).

I honestly think Axe 1 should be a 3 part chain.

1 and 2 would be quick attacks that deal the crap damage it deals now, but provide vuln still, and the 3 would be a mini version of Axe 2 as it is right now. Then you could rework axe 2 into something else, possible an AOE/frontal cleave manuever. Call it blistering slash and have it apply like a 2 second burn or something in a 90 degree frontal cone (or 180) at 600 range and deal good damage.

My concern with this is Axe 1 then becomes too much like Dagger 1. In which case, why bother using dagger at melee range if you can achieve nearly the same effect with Axe 1 at 600 range?

Now, if Dagger were to gain either a cleave or a built-in life siphon (only on one portion of the chain; Necrotic Slash would be a good candidate), then perhaps it would balance out. Do that, and I’m all for the Axe 1 suggestion.

I don’t care for the suggestion of reworking Axe 2 to include burning. I feel adding that condition to the class has done more harm than good and don’t want to see a repeat of the Dhuumfire fiasco. An AoE/frontal cleave maneuver would be fine, though.

The animation could be a sweep of the Axe in a long slash right to left (or backhanded left to right; doesn’t matter) with a fan of dark spectral mist/energy/smoke flying out from the Axe to 600 range. Think Wave of Fear, but darker and more spectral rather than green and water-like.

A few brainstorming ideas for the Axe 2:

• Gain 1 stack of might for each foe caught in the cleave. Synergizes with Axe 1’s vulnerability application.

• The Axe is thrown at the current target. The necro first sweeps it, performing the cleaving wave of damage (with or without the addition of the might suggestion if it’s felt that would be OP), and concludes with the Axe spinning through the air towards the target. The necro then dashes, leaps, or teleports to the Axe’s location to retrieve the thrown weapon. The dash, leap, or teleport is performed regardless of whether or not the target moves out of range, dodges, stealths, etc.

• Axe 2 remains single target; no cleaving. The Axe is thrown at a single target as above and the necro performs the dash, leap, or teleport. On a successful hit, the Axe chills the target. Of course, this is just Dark Path in Axe form; so nothing original here.

(continued)

(continued)

Another option:

Axe 2 becomes a necromancer version of a guardian’s Binding Blade skill (possible name change to “Binding Claws”). It could also be a Whirl finisher just like Binding Blades. Rather than causing damage over time, it would apply Torment over time; perhaps 1 stack applied per second during the skill’s 10 second duration, 5 second duration for each unique stack.

In the interest of balance, the Torment could end if the target(s) move out of 600 range or their current stacks of Torment remain for their duration, but no additional stacks are added if they move out of range. A second activation of the skill then pulls the affected targets to the necro; provided they haven’t moved outside the 600 range limit (again reinforcing the concept of needing to keep one’s distance from a necro).

This skill would synergize well with Axe 3; use Axe 2 to pull the targets to you, then follow up with Axe 3 to cripple them. It would fit with the idea of the necro being the anti-mobility class. By applying Torment, it also gives Axe some broader appeal.

The drawback is this makes Axe 2 a pretty powerful skill, requiring a longer recharge to balance it. Binding Blades has a 30 second cool down; appropriate for a slot #5 skill. Axe 2 is just that; a slot #2 skill. It would be out of sync with the current system to have a #2 weapon skill with a 30 second recharge. Some possible solutions present themselves:

• Swap Axe 2 with Axe 3. A 30 second recharge on a slot #3 skill isn’t too far outside the norm.

• Tone down the suggestion above to make it more appropriate as a slot #2 skill. Perhaps eliminate the finisher and go with the option that the stacks of Torment are removed if the target(s) move out of 600 range as well as being removed on activating the pull. Then the recharge time could be brought more in line with the mid-level weapon slots. It would probably still have to swap places with Axe 3; but then the recharge time could be made 25 seconds instead of 30 as it would be a little less powerful now as compared to Binding Blade.

• Unlike Binding Blade, Binding Claws would be a channel. Unlike the guardian, the necro would not be free to use other skills while the channel is in effect. Interrupting the channel would end the Torment application; targets would only suffer the stacks of Torment received prior to the interrupt (this allows for some counter-play). Activating the skill a second time would end the channel prematurely, cancel the application of any additional stacks of Torment, and would pull the affected target(s) to the necro.
  This also has the advantage of being able to use the existing Axe #2 channel animation; so no rework of that portion. Of course, if Axe #1 is given a mini-version of the current Axe #2 (as discussed at the beginning of this post), then the animations would be redundant between the two skills; so there may be some animation rework involved, regardless.

• If the second and third limiters just mentioned were implemented together, then it would be reasonable to give Axe #2 a 20 second recharge. Again, it would still likely have to swap places with Axe #3; but now we’d have Axe #1 auto-attack, Axe #2 (Unholy Feast) on a 15 second recharge, and Axe #3 (the new Binding Claws) on a 20 or 25 second recharge.

Lastly, if the limiters above were implemented, that would be a pretty strong nerf as compared to the original skill on which it’s based; Binding Blade. It’s appropriate to do so for a slot #3 weapon skill as compared to a slot #5 weapon skill. However, this would lead to the same issue from which we already suffer; other classes can do what we do, only better. The argument would go, “Why bother with necro’s Binding Claws when guardians can achieve a better effect using Binding Blade?”

To help balance this out a little, add life force generation to Binding Claws (the devs have already stated they wanted to add more life force generation to the weapon skills). For each target pulled with the secondary activation of the skill, gain X% life force; somewhere between 2% and 5% sounds reasonable. This synergizes well with the impression of the necro as the “selfish” profession.

Yes, the guardian’s Binding Blade is better as a seen from a group perspective. The guardian is free to continue to act after the first activation of the skill; allowing them to buff their party, continue damaging targets, etc. The necro, by contrast, would be locked into a channel during the initial activation of Binding Claws (assuming the limiters listed above were implemented).

However, the necro then gains life force with the pull. Life force which allows them to access their Death Shroud. This in turn allows them to stay in the fight longer and soak damage; which is one of the ways the necro “supports” his or her party. Hey, if you’re forced to be a sponge, you might as well be the best sponge you can be.

Burning was only a problem because of how it was accessed. Putting it on a classically non condition weapon only is no problem at all, and improves build diversity. Take axe, get an aoe burn, at the expense of a 1 and 3 skill that do no condition damage on their own.

The exact same arguments could be used to support Torment rather than burning; take axe, get an AoE Torment. Furthermore, this has the added benefits of Torment fitting the necro theme better than burning, not having to listen to the QQ from all the other professions at yet another method of burning application for necros, and not having to suffer nerfs across our entire profession because of it.

My suggestions surrounding Torment application with Axe allow for counter-play (possibly removed if target(s) move out of range, no further application of Torment on activating the secondary pull, the chance to interrupt the necro’s channeling of the skill and thus interrupt the Torment application); burning does not (outside of condition removal which applies to all conditions equally). By allowing for counter-play, this helps maintain better balance and fewer opportunities for becoming OP or being perceived as OP in the eyes of other classes.

Rather than this becoming the start of a flame war over the issue (pun intended), let’s just agree to disagree. I liked the overall direction of your original suggestion (heck, I wouldn’t have made mine without your’s as the starting point), but feel that burning is bad for necros, m’kay. You believe burning to be an acceptable condition for necromancers. We’ve each made our respective suggestions and our supporting arguments. Let’s see what others have to say.

Just make the axe auto cleave and I’ll be happy. It will be a bit OPed (cleave, single target burst, AOE + retaliation) but I don’t care anymore.

I do like the idea of getting a hard CC, though.

And quit trying to put conditions on my power weapons. -_-

Nagato no Kami.4980:

Just make the axe auto cleave and I’ll be happy. It will be a bit OPed (cleave, single target burst, AOE + retaliation) but I don’t care anymore.

I do like the idea of getting a hard CC, though.

And quit trying to put conditions on my power weapons. -_-

The condition application aside, what’s your opinion – especially as a powermancer – of being able to pull targets to you?

@ Kragg
A pull? Freaking awesome. Could start some really nice DS/well combos as well as have some funny synergy with fear.

Also, I’m tired of being pulled and cheaply killed in PvP Skyhammer. Time for payback!

It is a bit depressing that I use a MH Axe in WvW for literally one skill (#3), albeit a great skill for what I do. Still, I would love for the auto attack to be a cleave.

I am not of the mind that dagger 1 needs any cleave/damage changes. It is a workable weapon right now (needs small changes but not in that direction) so don’t fix what isn’t broken.

I had kind of assumingly I guess (probably because I was talking with ronpierce at the same time) thought it was cleave at the same time as the changes.

Here is the problem with axe that isn’t really addressed often enough: a massive identity crisis. Until you actually say “this is what axe is” you can never fix it. As it is right now, Axe 1 is a vulnerability stacking AA; a support skill. Axe 2 is a single target channeled “nuke”; a medium single target DPS skill. Axe 3 is a PBAoE cripple, boon strip, and retal for you; AoE support and tanking. Overall, axe is a 600 range, single target DPS, AoE control/support, power weapon.

That is why any damage condition I am against; why do we want to add more confusion to a confused weapon set. Same with gap closers and such, it is a ranged weapon with no current need or mechanics as that.

Turn it into an AoE DPS weapon with a little control support. Less utility than staff, but better damage.
Axe 1 – Now a chain. First attack is the current Axe 1, functions the same but cleaves, Axe 1 part 2 would be a small channeled attack, single target

Axe 1: Rending Claws – same mechanics as now, but with cleave
Axe 1 chain: channel for 1s, hitting three times for 1% LF per hit dealing similar damage as it does now (maybe cleaving?)

Axe 2: A frontal cone attack, after a short cast (1/4s) ghastly axes rip through the ground moving fairly quickly (but a very fast opponent should be able to dodge) and dealing high damage, returning 5% LF per opponent hit – 10s CD

Alternate idea: same entire concept, a frontal cone that has a slight travel time and can deal very high damage (with appropriate investment) along with LF gain per hit. But change the looks, and give it a blind component

Axe 3: Unholy Feast

I personally like the idea of axe AA cleaving to ONE nearby target with a large cleave radius. Maybe even the 600 range of the axe itself. Change nothing else.

Bhawb.7408:

I am not of the mind that dagger 1 needs any cleave/damage changes. It is a workable weapon right now (needs small changes but not in that direction) so don’t fix what isn’t broken.

I agree; Dagger doesn’t need any changes in the current state of necro weapon skills. However, if Axe were to be reworked to allow a 3-part chain with improved damage and/or possibly a cleave (as per Rennoko’s suggestion, to which I was responding, or some of the follow up suggestions from others), this would make Dagger considerably less viable.

Let’s see; do X damage by putting myself in harm’s way at 130 melee range with a Dagger or do just a little bit less than X damage sitting safely back (relatively speaking) at 600 range with an Axe? Not a hard choice to make. Especially when Axe is a power weapon who’s damage can be increased 20% when traited, bringing it even closer to Dagger’s damage potential; an option not shared by Dagger.

Dagger #1’s advantage is its damage. That’s it; it brings nothing else to the table, no additional functionality outside of life force generation (which is shared by all main hand weapons). Bring Axe #1 close to that damage (or even exceed it), and Dagger’s niche quickly evaporates. So when suggesting a change to a weapon, it can’t be done in a vacuum; the impact that change will have on the other weapons in a necro’s are-senal (<== my workaround of the stupid language filter) have to be taken into account as well.

Staying within the context of Rennoko’s original suggestion, Dagger #1 would have to be buffed to compensate for the buff to Axe #1. From there, I just built upon it with additions that grew from that starting point. I’m not saying they’re the best suggestions; I was simply attempting to remain on the same track as Rennoko.

The best option may indeed be to simply add cleave to axe #1; no other changes. Then let’s see how it plays out from there; buffing it more or adding new functionality at a later date if warranted. Though I do believe there’s utility of being able to pull opponents to us using a weapon skill; Axe, as a power weapon, seems the best candidate.

Axe 1 shouldn’t be Dagger 1’s damage, nor would the Devs ever allow that. I realize the point, but it is a non-issue because it simply wouldn’t happen. Melee single target will always > ranged cleave damage wise (when compared between equivalent situations, including classes).

Also, remember that no matter what, dagger has two things axe doesn’t, besides significantly higher damage: a lockdown (that axe cannot hope to compare to) and sustain (which needs some buffing still). Dagger is the melee, highest DPS (of our weapons), high sustain weapon we have. Axe would become a ranged DPS (between dagger and staff) with AoE.

Dagger = single target DPS, sustain, lockdown
Axe = AoE DPS, limited support/control

I feel like if you add a 3rd strike as a chain that deals the same damage and vulnerability but make it a final attack, and add splash damage to the first 2 strikes, then you now have a more attractive weapon.

Axe 1 needs to be buffed
Axe 2 is fine, but you never land a full chain in WvW – not sure if they can speed up the channel or something so it’s like Unload from the thief
Axe 3 is good – pathetic damage, but that’s not the point of it

Forget changing everything too drastically – it’s never going to happen.

If it takes A-net months to fix ridiculous bugs, they are not going to have time to re-design a weapon skill set.

I would change 2 things:

1. Unholy Feast generates 2% life force per target.

2. Rending Claws: more damage.
Either by simply buffing it single target, or rework the skill to be like Crimson Tide.

I’m perfectly happy with everything else.

IMO the only thing axe needs is +300 range added to the Axe Traiting trait (ie: 900 range when traited).

the scaling on the auto is maybe a little low but IMO the rest is fine, the biggest issue with axe is that it’s not sufficiently differentiated from dagger M/H. The traited range buff addresses that.

Just to mention it, i dont think that Unholy feast fits on axe.

scerevisiae.1972:

IMO the only thing axe needs is +300 range added to the Axe Traiting trait (ie: 900 range when traited).

the scaling on the auto is maybe a little low but IMO the rest is fine, the biggest issue with axe is that it’s not sufficiently differentiated from dagger M/H. The traited range buff addresses that.

Boom! Extra range would be super sweet!!!

Imagine a quality ranged power weapon like everyone else gets.

The range atm is pretty kitten poor.

Liquid.9672:

It is a bit depressing that I use a MH Axe in WvW for literally one skill (#3), albeit a great skill for what I do. Still, I would love for the auto attack to be a cleave.

I think most of us run it for the same reason. Depressing.

Bhawb.7408:

I am not of the mind that dagger 1 needs any cleave/damage changes. It is a workable weapon right now (needs small changes but not in that direction) so don’t fix what isn’t broken.

I had kind of assumingly I guess (probably because I was talking with ronpierce at the same time) thought it was cleave at the same time as the changes.

Here is the problem with axe that isn’t really addressed often enough: a massive identity crisis. Until you actually say “this is what axe is” you can never fix it. As it is right now, Axe 1 is a vulnerability stacking AA; a support skill. Axe 2 is a single target channeled “nuke”; a medium single target DPS skill. Axe 3 is a PBAoE cripple, boon strip, and retal for you; AoE support and tanking. Overall, axe is a 600 range, single target DPS, AoE control/support, power weapon.

That is why any damage condition I am against; why do we want to add more confusion to a confused weapon set. Same with gap closers and such, it is a ranged weapon with no current need or mechanics as that.

Turn it into an AoE DPS weapon with a little control support. Less utility than staff, but better damage.
Axe 1 – Now a chain. First attack is the current Axe 1, functions the same but cleaves, Axe 1 part 2 would be a small channeled attack, single target

Axe 1: Rending Claws – same mechanics as now, but with cleave
Axe 1 chain: channel for 1s, hitting three times for 1% LF per hit dealing similar damage as it does now (maybe cleaving?)

Axe 2: A frontal cone attack, after a short cast (1/4s) ghastly axes rip through the ground moving fairly quickly (but a very fast opponent should be able to dodge) and dealing high damage, returning 5% LF per opponent hit – 10s CD

Alternate idea: same entire concept, a frontal cone that has a slight travel time and can deal very high damage (with appropriate investment) along with LF gain per hit. But change the looks, and give it a blind component

Axe 3: Unholy Feast

i’m liking this one the best. and it would put us on par with warrior axe, minus the ridiculous eviscerate. kitten, why not even give our axe a similar chain.

in the first place, add a blast finisher on #3

honestly I think axe 2 needs to be a non-target based attack. It should do the same animation at a fixed distance (600) and be a continuous cleave or small radius aoe.

But then most people would not like that XD. The problem I personally have is that axe 2 is easily avoided. It should work somewhat like the mesmers sword2 but mobile.

Even further suggestions could be that once the target is out of range the idea above could take effect. OR there could be a secondary activation to “free” the axe with the above effect.

I think if anything axe1 could be just as interesting. You could pretty much leave the innitial attack as it is in a sense. The attack could primarily be a melee cleave (200 range) with 2 red slashes firing out as projectiles (still 600 range with minimal damage and add vuln (no pierce)). Enemies hit in melee will take the full amount (melee + projectiles).

And though I love the idea of blase finishers built into a necro weapon (aside from staff4) I’m hoping that’s saved for DA HAMMA!!

So just to put it in gw2 format here’s my ideas:

Axe1: Commit two swipes with your axe, damaging enemies in front of you and send a pair of glowing red cuts in a line; each cut causing vulnerability.

Axe2: Command your axe to spin viciously at an enemy.
(secondary): Release your target from your attack and allow the blades to spin freely in front of you, damaging enemies. (cleave, channel)

Axe 1 just needs splash damage, then axe is fine.

I like axe more than the other weapons already. There is good synergy with the skills. The only problem is the terrible damage the weapon puts out in auto attack.

Like i said before, Axe #1 (range130) mêlée +cleave.

I think giving the axe Cleave makes more sense than giving the dagger Cleave. I’m not sure if it needs torment on top of that, but definitely Cleave for starters.

Axe: 1 make it hit faster and harder.
Axe: 2 make it 900 range so we can chase ppl or add Chill efect.
Axe: 3 remove retaliation, it doesn’t make any sense. Add regen and lf generation.

vicious.5683:

Axe: 1 make it hit faster and harder.
Axe: 2 make it 900 range so we can chase ppl or add Chill efect.
Axe: 3 remove retaliation, it doesn’t make any sense. Add regen and lf generation.

1 – nope
2 – very nope
3 – so you wanna ruin the only good skill on axe, gratz

Axe 1 should be 900 range. Currently the axe is just no fun because you have to come in and do that pittance of damage. At least being further away would justify it.

The other option is to keep 600 range but make axe 1 generate life force too. Axe can only generate life force via axe 2 which is just annoying as almost all the eggs are in that basket.

What’s the other reason? Well, do necros even have other ranged auto attacks? There’s scepter and staff (lol), We don’t really have a ranged direct damage option.

Axe is by far my favorite Necro weapon.

The 600 range is great – Necro as a medium range caster is apparently what Anet want since DS only does full damage within 600.

This gives Axe great synergy with DS. Basically if your axe was hitting, you know your DS will do max damage.

However, it definitely needs some tweaks in the damage department.

What I think is a fairly reasonable wishlist:

Axe 1 – either add a cleave or up the single-target damage to be the same as Dagger minus 10%

Axe 2 – is amazing. No changes.

Axe 3 – Like ‘vicious’ in the post above said, remove retaliation. It really doesn’t make sense. Regen would be nice. Right now there’s no point in casting this as the damage is low and cast-time is high. Some pvp’ers have noted they only take axe to use Axe3 retaliation. It sounds like it would be better to add retaliation somewhere else and make Axe 3 useful.

If they increased the axe auto attack vulnerability from 2 stacks to 3 stacks it would probably be a big help.

Only thing Axe needs is a finisher on one skill. Either Whirl on Axe 2 or Blast on Axe 3. Something to add a little synergy with Wells. Maybe add a little cleave to the AA.

Other than that. Leave it be. Axe is amazing.

Andele.1306:

vicious.5683:

Axe: 1 make it hit faster and harder.
Axe: 2 make it 900 range so we can chase ppl or add Chill efect.
Axe: 3 remove retaliation, it doesn’t make any sense. Add regen and lf generation.

1 – nope
2 – very nope
3 – so you wanna ruin the only good skill on axe, gratz

1.- Axe aa does crappy damage. If it doesn’t cleave, it should hit harder and/or faster.
2.- The only source of damage is easily avoided. And the damage it’s not that good to begin with. What about this: If it hits 4 times add some effect (cripple), if it hits 8 times another effect(chill).
3.- Remove retaliation, keep cripple, reduce damage and add a blast finisher, make it a defensive skill. Blast finisher on a dark field (we have a lot of those) produces area blind, which is a lot more suitable for necromancers.

Now we have a control mid range weapon.

axe is pretty fine as it is, it has a bit short range but it does also decent dps

either aa or #2 could be projectile finishers with 20% chance or something though to make it more interesting with wells and such. That would be in line with other ranged weapons too, if axe conditions/dps doesn’t get some kind of buff at some point.

Retaliation skills and traits need rework desperately, especially for necro after retaliation was nerfed. It used to work in decent way but now it just doesn’t cut it anymore.

vicious.5683:

Andele.1306:

vicious.5683:

Axe: 1 make it hit faster and harder.
Axe: 2 make it 900 range so we can chase ppl or add Chill efect.
Axe: 3 remove retaliation, it doesn’t make any sense. Add regen and lf generation.

1 – nope
2 – very nope
3 – so you wanna ruin the only good skill on axe, gratz

1.- Axe aa does crappy damage. If it doesn’t cleave, it should hit harder and/or faster.
2.- The only source of damage is easily avoided. And the damage it’s not that good to begin with. What about this: If it hits 4 times add some effect (cripple), if it hits 8 times another effect(chill).
3.- Remove retaliation, keep cripple, reduce damage and add a blast finisher, make it a defensive skill. Blast finisher on a dark field (we have a lot of those) produces area blind, which is a lot more suitable for necromancers.

Now we have a control mid range weapon.

1.) Its designed to be a crappy aa weapon, warrior gs is a crappy aa weapon too, thats because they are made for the burst skills.
2.) No, no, another no and another no, Axe 2 misses because of crappy cone and hit detection, not because enemies are out of range.
3.) Again i must say, dont touch the only universally good skill of the weapon (except for maybe cutting its cast time in half), also no blind is a thief thing.

My personal idea for the axe rework, which is needed, is to make it a much needed melee cleave weapon.

Make the auto attack a chain, take away the vuln (maybe keep it one the 3rd hit of the chain)

Ghastly claws should simply be pb cone aoe giving life force for each enemy hit (gives greater sustain in dungeons and group fights) this would be balanced similar to mesmers blurred frenzy, though far less damage than hundred blades as it shouldn’t root us.

IMO the 3 skill can stay the same. As other people have stated having a pull would be very nice and make axes much more desirable in dungeons, but it might be a little op.

Someone else said it, just give axe 1 splash damage. It’s a really strong weapon if you work it into your playstyle and build, and it fits well with MM and DS builds. It doesn’t need a big change. If it has a little AOE damage on axe 1 then it is perfect.

Axe 2 does not suck like some people are saying. If you spam it mindlessly its not so great. Use it when people are out of dodges and you’ve stripped their boons, though, and the whole chain can hit for 7-10k depending on their toughness. It’s strong if you use it properly. Axe 3 is amazing as it is, too. Axe 1 needs a little love, and that’s it.

Axe is perfect right now…wouldnt change a thing. 2 and 3 are very strong, 1 is just a filler and vuln stack.

Andele.1306:

vicious.5683:

Andele.1306:

vicious.5683:

Axe: 1 make it hit faster and harder.
Axe: 2 make it 900 range so we can chase ppl or add Chill efect.
Axe: 3 remove retaliation, it doesn’t make any sense. Add regen and lf generation.

1 – nope
2 – very nope
3 – so you wanna ruin the only good skill on axe, gratz

1.- Axe aa does crappy damage. If it doesn’t cleave, it should hit harder and/or faster.
2.- The only source of damage is easily avoided. And the damage it’s not that good to begin with. What about this: If it hits 4 times add some effect (cripple), if it hits 8 times another effect(chill).
3.- Remove retaliation, keep cripple, reduce damage and add a blast finisher, make it a defensive skill. Blast finisher on a dark field (we have a lot of those) produces area blind, which is a lot more suitable for necromancers.

Now we have a control mid range weapon.

1.) Its designed to be a crappy aa weapon, warrior gs is a crappy aa weapon too, thats because they are made for the burst skills.
2.) No, no, another no and another no, Axe 2 misses because of crappy cone and hit detection, not because enemies are out of range.
3.) Again i must say, dont touch the only universally good skill of the weapon (except for maybe cutting its cast time in half), also no blind is a thief thing.

did I just read that you are comparing Necro Axe#2 to Warrior GS#2?
Ok, I should stop reading you. You have no clue.

Andele.1306:

vicious.5683:

Andele.1306:

vicious.5683:

Axe: 1 make it hit faster and harder.
Axe: 2 make it 900 range so we can chase ppl or add Chill efect.
Axe: 3 remove retaliation, it doesn’t make any sense. Add regen and lf generation.

1 – nope
2 – very nope
3 – so you wanna ruin the only good skill on axe, gratz

1.- Axe aa does crappy damage. If it doesn’t cleave, it should hit harder and/or faster.
2.- The only source of damage is easily avoided. And the damage it’s not that good to begin with. What about this: If it hits 4 times add some effect (cripple), if it hits 8 times another effect(chill).
3.- Remove retaliation, keep cripple, reduce damage and add a blast finisher, make it a defensive skill. Blast finisher on a dark field (we have a lot of those) produces area blind, which is a lot more suitable for necromancers.

Now we have a control mid range weapon.

1.) Its designed to be a crappy aa weapon, warrior gs is a crappy aa weapon too, thats because they are made for the burst skills.
2.) No, no, another no and another no, Axe 2 misses because of crappy cone and hit detection, not because enemies are out of range.
3.) Again i must say, dont touch the only universally good skill of the weapon (except for maybe cutting its cast time in half), also no blind is a thief thing.

1) Wrong in multiple ways; warrior gs is not a crappy aa weapon, equally geared necro/warrior the dps is miles apart. The 600 range does not warrant its over-the-top crap damage. Furthermore.. what burst skill? axe2??? oh lord…
2) Axe 2 misses because of crappy range+target detection+its damage, because of this it cannot be qualified as a burst skill.
3) Axe 3 is good yes, but why the retalliation? are we suppoost to walk in the melee train so we can reflect all that damage back? It makes no sense whatsoever. I rather give it fury instead.

Sandra Martino.3870:

3) Axe 3 is good yes, but why the retalliation? are we suppoost to walk in the melee train so we can reflect all that damage back? It makes no sense whatsoever. I rather give it fury instead.

Yeah retaliation is a pretty weird choice for a ranged weapon and a ranged skill.

I would prefer something to help our sustain.

I use the retaliation on Axe 3 to survive darting in and dropping multiple wells.

I have +70% vulnerability duration – Axe 1 does vicious brutal things on my build already. A smidgeon more damage would be nice, but I find its basic functionality quite powerful.

Only axe request I really have is to make axe 3 a 50% chance of a blast finisher.

Nike.2631:

I use the retaliation on Axe 3 to survive darting in and dropping multiple wells.

But retaliation doesn’t help you survive at all?

retal is meh.

axe/focus is one of the deadliest skill combos in the game. spinal shivers + axe 3 is basically another corrupt boon and will annihlate any warrior/guard/engie/dd ele when timed well. reaper’s touch + axe 1 can easily stack 20 vuln on a single target in seconds. you can epi that for fun. axe 2 with 2k+ power and 100% crit damage is used for spiking tough targets down.

if you guys want to fix a weapon, you should seriously use your talents to buff warhorn, arguably the most useless skill-set in the game.

I dont think that you guys get that warrior gs aa is just as kittenty as axe aa (keeping in mind one weapon is ranged other is melee).
While its no longer accurate because of stats and weapon changes (thus 40k hits being possible on champ mobs and 28~ on most bosses) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ckhmyUfC2Q Now say that isnt burst?

And as for Unholy feast, its the only utility you get from the weapon, thats why i said it doesnt fit it, id love if they took the current version of it and placed it on maybe a sword or poleaxe, something that is actually useful for the team. Also retaliation is there because its a pbaoe thus when you should use it you are probably surrounded, in smaller scale fights its good for the condi removal and chase potential and even for kiting.

Also D/WH/DS setup op dont touch WH either.

Axe 1 and 2 is perfectly fine as it is.. There is no reason to touch it.

Axe 1 damage isnt something to write home 2.. but then i use its auto attack for one thing – vul stacks in pve.. WvW im busy doing other things then to auto an enemy.

Axe 2 is fine, the damage is nice when traited. As a hybrid i can get about 15k currently on my build by the end of it.. and i do see a difference in wvw.. it isnt weak.

Axe 3.. Could possibly use a touch maybe.. perhaps a cone attack (instead of PBAoE)

People say get rid of rel..well maybe.. im un sure about that tbh.. However don’t give us some crappy regen for it. Rather it give some more helpful on hit.. something like “Aegis”.. something to reduce the damage we take.. ofc the boon is only applied on a hit.

Warhorn 4 is awesome i find as long as u know how to position yourself for it.. warhorn 5.. I say is alright… :/ But Its not something to be at awe about.

I got rid of focus for warhorn ags ago.. never looked bk since.. far more helpful then focus ever was.

I’m a hybrid so I tend to build round everything. Hence axe/dagger – Scepter/warhorn.
Amazing combo for conditions and damage.
The weapon skills as a whole work very well with eachother.. tho the odd one or 2 could use a “slight” tweek.

Axe is to weak in DPS for PvE it sucks cause of the lowdmg AA. Dagger is outdpsing Axe by far.
This Guide is for PvE DPS not good.

Only if u want to play the axe!

If u want to play a Glascanon DPS Necro u should play Dagger/Warhorn+Dagger/Focus and a 30/25/0/015 build (possibel changing with 10.dec).

I think axe #1 and #2 needs aoe cleave.(120-180 radius). Single-targeted skills are the main problem of necro axe.

Skill #2 damage needs to be on par with warrior greatsword #2(Hundred blades). That would be a good reason to want some necros in your dungeon party. Currently only warriors are wanted.

Skill #3 needs a blast finisher and more base damage. This would help us to support our teammates(specially in wvw raids) while they are opening combo fields. Plus extra base damage is needed because we need to go into a zerg within melee range to use this skill as a class with no mobility and no stability. It has to worth that risk.

These would be good reasons to roll a power necro instead of a condition build for a wvw player.

100B is 3 1/2 sec channel, necro axe 2 1/2, no the dmg is ok. But cleave and a explosion finisher is a good idea. That would make the axe a bit more viable.
Not only dps is the reason why necros are unwanted. They are slow and they have not rly viable offensive support.

100b is stationary, melee range and a longer cast. I don’t see how a necro should be allowed to do that much damage from range and while moving.

When people say it’s weak.. what do you compare it to?

You know when you have axe, you trait for it.. It gets a nice boost from 20 on the first line of traits (cannot remember the name atm) and 25 in the second line adds UP TO 22% (i believe) if all conditions are on the enemy .. Something signet of spite helps lots with that.