Guild Wars 2

Is it just me or there are some ridiculous casting times on necro spells. Just for an example i barely manage to cast any spells in time on thief when he comes out of stealth and than before back in (+ his dodges), using dager/warhorn, axe/focus.
And how am i supose to interupt spells with daze (warhorn) that has that long casting time …. not to mention focus 5 skill x.x .
So is it just me or you ppl also notice this?

Cast times on Necro are very noticable, and painful. I have tried to point out numerous times on the forums the lack of fluidity around the class as a result of this. Having so few instant cast weapon skills hurts us incredibly in pvp. Having no burst mobility (instant cast or otherwise) is fine, but so many skills could have their cast times reduced and it would go a long way to making the class more fun.

All marks should be 1/4 or 1/2 second (like chillbains). Enfeebling blood should either cast faster or hit faster after the cast has finished. There is no reason at all why sceptor 3 couldn’t be instant cast. Increase projectile speed on dagger 4. (I won’t comment on other weapons as I am primarily condition build)

I am okay with utility cast times for the most part. Epidemic is already great, and a faster cast time would be nice, but almost too much in wvw. BIP seems fine for cast time. Again this isn’t about making things overpowered, its about making combat feel better, like it is underwater. Necro is easily my favorite underwater class.

OP, I agree. The cast times are just silly on some utilities.

Epidemic is waaay too long – many’s the time the target dies before the Epidemic cast finishes.

Rennoko.5731:

All marks should be 1/4 or 1/2 second (like chillbains).

All marks are 3/4 cast. Including Chillblains…

Also Warhorn #4 is only 1/2 cast which is relatively quick for an AoE Daze (Other AoE Daze are 3/4 cast time)

The only skills I feel have a long cast time are:

Focus #5 – Which is very noticeable since a large reason to use it is to remove Boons applied mid-combat which breaks the flow by a huge amount.

DS #1 – It’s very slow at a full 1 second cast time, it may do high damage but it’s pretty terrible when compared to Dagger #1 which will complete 3 attacks per second… The slow cast time of this also makes using the #2 and #3 skills much harder to do without crippling the damage you’ll do in the short time you can stay in DS.

Taril.8619:

Rennoko.5731:

All marks should be 1/4 or 1/2 second (like chillbains).

All marks are 3/4 cast. Including Chillblains…

Also Warhorn #4 is only 1/2 cast which is relatively quick for an AoE Daze (Other AoE Daze are 3/4 cast time)

The only skills I feel have a long cast time are:

Focus #5 – Which is very noticeable since a large reason to use it is to remove Boons applied mid-combat which breaks the flow by a huge amount.

DS #1 – It’s very slow at a full 1 second cast time, it may do high damage but it’s pretty terrible when compared to Dagger #1 which will complete 3 attacks per second… The slow cast time of this also makes using the #2 and #3 skills much harder to do without crippling the damage you’ll do in the short time you can stay in DS.

DS1 is only bad in that instance if you are a condition mancer, at which point DS shouldn’t be used for damage, except to pop crits. At lvl 80 with full zerker gear and a power build. Dagger1 hits for around 150-200, Dagger2 hits for 250, and Dagger3 hits for around 900. That’s a total of 1300 with Crits as high as 2200. DS hits for 2200 normal with crits of 3300 – 4k. That’s twice the hit, and if traited it stacks might, pierces and stacks Vulnerability. Axe 2 with a full power build can hit up to 8k in it’s channel. Dagger is not as great as everyone says it is, and Axe is not as Bad. DS is great if used for the right reasons and in the builds that support it.

For Hybrids and Condition builds, Death Shroud is used for Bleed on crit with DS 4, DS3 and DS2. DS1 is simply used as filler or when waiting for cd, and to possibly stack might if traited.

Taril.8619:

Rennoko.5731:

All marks should be 1/4 or 1/2 second (like chillbains).

All marks are 3/4 cast. Including Chillblains…

Nope, don’t believe the Wiki on this one, its wrong. Another reason why I never believe the wiki without testing.

The in game tooltip says 1/4 second, which in this case is right.

Also, if you just use the skill its easy to tell the difference how much faster it casts.

Taril.8619:

Rennoko.5731:

All marks should be 1/4 or 1/2 second (like chillbains).

All marks are 3/4 cast. Including Chillblains…

Also Warhorn #4 is only 1/2 cast which is relatively quick for an AoE Daze (Other AoE Daze are 3/4 cast time)

The only skills I feel have a long cast time are:

Focus #5 – Which is very noticeable since a large reason to use it is to remove Boons applied mid-combat which breaks the flow by a huge amount.

DS #1 – It’s very slow at a full 1 second cast time, it may do high damage but it’s pretty terrible when compared to Dagger #1 which will complete 3 attacks per second… The slow cast time of this also makes using the #2 and #3 skills much harder to do without crippling the damage you’ll do in the short time you can stay in DS.

actually I have come to like the cast time on DS1, lately it seems like players dodge in between the cast of each nuke and the roll is done by the time the next nuke is finished.

how exactly does DS1 make using DS3 any harder? perhaps you’re doing it wrong?

Dredlord.8076:

Taril.8619:

Rennoko.5731:

All marks should be 1/4 or 1/2 second (like chillbains).

All marks are 3/4 cast. Including Chillblains…

Also Warhorn #4 is only 1/2 cast which is relatively quick for an AoE Daze (Other AoE Daze are 3/4 cast time)

The only skills I feel have a long cast time are:

Focus #5 – Which is very noticeable since a large reason to use it is to remove Boons applied mid-combat which breaks the flow by a huge amount.

DS #1 – It’s very slow at a full 1 second cast time, it may do high damage but it’s pretty terrible when compared to Dagger #1 which will complete 3 attacks per second… The slow cast time of this also makes using the #2 and #3 skills much harder to do without crippling the damage you’ll do in the short time you can stay in DS.

actually I have come to like the cast time on DS1, lately it seems like players dodge in between the cast of each nuke and the roll is done by the time the next nuke is finished.

how exactly does DS1 make using DS3 any harder? perhaps you’re doing it wrong?

I am sure he meant just DS2, the indication being you are in the middle of a DS1 cast and then switch over to the DS2 and it restarts your cast bar. But it is no different than stepping on your own marks by swapping to DS or swapping weapons. Again the “fluidity” problem of the casting times. Since I don’t use DS1 its no problem for me though. I spam 2 whenever I go into DS to preven that DS1 from casting. I may even try making the DS2 my autocast…. never thought about that.

Just to clear up the confusion about chillblains:

Using the traits greater marks doesn’t actually increase the AoE, but instead swaps the skill available for another one with the larger AoE.

On release, the marks only became unblockable when traited, after 2 months a patch came along that finally increased the area but didn’t increase the casting marker, however the broken greater marks chillblains skill was NOT swapped (shows how much effort bug fixing gets in ANet).
A month AFTER that chillblains greater mark skill was finally introduced for the trait. Besides actually having the increased AoE it also had the increased AoE targetting, BUT (since the bug fixes require so much attention from staff) the Greater Marks skill that substitutes chillblains has a 1/4 casting time as opposed to the 3/4 casting time that every single other, traited or not, mark the staff possesses.

And that’s why every patch since release that deals with Necros has been disappointing.

PS – Focused rituals well of corruption icon is still wrong.

Rennoko.5731:

Dredlord.8076:

Taril.8619:

Rennoko.5731:

All marks should be 1/4 or 1/2 second (like chillbains).

All marks are 3/4 cast. Including Chillblains…

Also Warhorn #4 is only 1/2 cast which is relatively quick for an AoE Daze (Other AoE Daze are 3/4 cast time)

The only skills I feel have a long cast time are:

Focus #5 – Which is very noticeable since a large reason to use it is to remove Boons applied mid-combat which breaks the flow by a huge amount.

DS #1 – It’s very slow at a full 1 second cast time, it may do high damage but it’s pretty terrible when compared to Dagger #1 which will complete 3 attacks per second… The slow cast time of this also makes using the #2 and #3 skills much harder to do without crippling the damage you’ll do in the short time you can stay in DS.

actually I have come to like the cast time on DS1, lately it seems like players dodge in between the cast of each nuke and the roll is done by the time the next nuke is finished.

how exactly does DS1 make using DS3 any harder? perhaps you’re doing it wrong?

I am sure he meant just DS2, the indication being you are in the middle of a DS1 cast and then switch over to the DS2 and it restarts your cast bar. But it is no different than stepping on your own marks by swapping to DS or swapping weapons. Again the “fluidity” problem of the casting times. Since I don’t use DS1 its no problem for me though. I spam 2 whenever I go into DS to preven that DS1 from casting. I may even try making the DS2 my autocast…. never thought about that.

No, I dont think he meant just DS2. I think he doesn’t really know how his abilities work, thanks for showing up though.

I try to defend the helpless and misinformed

And about chillbains, that is interesting. I always have greater marks, so I never noticed that the non-greater marks version of chillbains is a 3/4 second cast. That makes me now fear an incoming nerf to that in the future. For the love of all someone forget to add it to our bug list.

I’m actually testing it right now and…

I think chillblains w/ greater marks is a little faster. But oddly the animation is not. I think there might also be after-cast delay because of that? Because if I quickly cast chillblains > other mark, there’s more delay (you can tell by how much the casting bar fades) than after any other mark. But I can’t tell how much of a difference.

Anyways, I’ve added it to the “Chillblains is weeeird with Greater Marks” point on the buglist.

Softspoken.2410:

I’m actually testing it right now and…

I think chillblains w/ greater marks is a little faster. But oddly the animation is not. I think there might also be after-cast delay because of that? Because if I quickly cast chillblains > other mark, there’s more delay (you can tell by how much the casting bar fades) than after any other mark. But I can’t tell how much of a difference.

Anyways, I’ve added it to the “Chillblains is weeeird with Greater Marks” point on the buglist.

Thats the same as it was since the greater marks combo field fix, it just uses a really old tooltip when its icon was still the pale skull, it is still 3/4 cast time just like all marks.

Bas.7406:

DS1 is only bad in that instance if you are a condition mancer, at which point DS shouldn’t be used for damage, except to pop crits. At lvl 80 with full zerker gear and a power build. Dagger1 hits for around 150-200, Dagger2 hits for 250, and Dagger3 hits for around 900. That’s a total of 1300 with Crits as high as 2200. DS hits for 2200 normal with crits of 3300 – 4k. That’s twice the hit, and if traited it stacks might, pierces and stacks Vulnerability. Axe 2 with a full power build can hit up to 8k in it’s channel. Dagger is not as great as everyone says it is, and Axe is not as Bad. DS is great if used for the right reasons and in the builds that support it.

For Hybrids and Condition builds, Death Shroud is used for Bleed on crit with DS 4, DS3 and DS2. DS1 is simply used as filler or when waiting for cd, and to possibly stack might if traited.

I don’t know about you, but the last hit on dagger auto hits the vet guards in wvw for over 3k for me before might/vuln.

War Mourner.5168:

I don’t know about you, but the last hit on dagger auto hits the vet guards in wvw for over 3k for me before might/vuln.

WvWvW is not accurate testing as there are so many buffs that it gets quite hilarious. If 3k is dagger 3 I wonder how hard Axe 2 would hit ;p.

that’s without any buffs to damage of any sort, of course the stats are slightly different from spvp.

Sorry for little sidetalk :P.
I can confirm dagger 1 being much over 3k for me too without any buffs or debuffs or food. And i am using berserker gear and 4 gear that has power vitality thoughtnes. Tho axe 1 is still very low((. But axe 2 gives me over 5k.

Yeah, no. Dagger is definitely as good as people say it is. The only problem with Dagger is having to be in melee range to use it.

I run full Zerkers build with 20/15/0/0/25 and see my Dagger #3 hit up to 4K. With DS Life Blast I’ve seen damage as high as 7K almost 8K (note this is against low armor opponents with their health under 50%, but still)

Bas.7406:

Taril.8619:

Rennoko.5731:

All marks should be 1/4 or 1/2 second (like chillbains).

All marks are 3/4 cast. Including Chillblains…

Also Warhorn #4 is only 1/2 cast which is relatively quick for an AoE Daze (Other AoE Daze are 3/4 cast time)

The only skills I feel have a long cast time are:

Focus #5 – Which is very noticeable since a large reason to use it is to remove Boons applied mid-combat which breaks the flow by a huge amount.

DS #1 – It’s very slow at a full 1 second cast time, it may do high damage but it’s pretty terrible when compared to Dagger #1 which will complete 3 attacks per second… The slow cast time of this also makes using the #2 and #3 skills much harder to do without crippling the damage you’ll do in the short time you can stay in DS.

DS1 is only bad in that instance if you are a condition mancer, at which point DS shouldn’t be used for damage, except to pop crits. At lvl 80 with full zerker gear and a power build. Dagger1 hits for around 150-200, Dagger2 hits for 250, and Dagger3 hits for around 900. That’s a total of 1300 with Crits as high as 2200. DS hits for 2200 normal with crits of 3300 – 4k. That’s twice the hit, and if traited it stacks might, pierces and stacks Vulnerability. Axe 2 with a full power build can hit up to 8k in it’s channel. Dagger is not as great as everyone says it is, and Axe is not as Bad. DS is great if used for the right reasons and in the builds that support it.

For Hybrids and Condition builds, Death Shroud is used for Bleed on crit with DS 4, DS3 and DS2. DS1 is simply used as filler or when waiting for cd, and to possibly stack might if traited.

That’s terrible damage. Something must have gone horribly wrong with your power build.

My dagger auto attack chain hits for up to 9k plus.

Dredlord.8076:

Bas.7406:

Taril.8619:

Rennoko.5731:

All marks should be 1/4 or 1/2 second (like chillbains).

All marks are 3/4 cast. Including Chillblains…

Also Warhorn #4 is only 1/2 cast which is relatively quick for an AoE Daze (Other AoE Daze are 3/4 cast time)

The only skills I feel have a long cast time are:

Focus #5 – Which is very noticeable since a large reason to use it is to remove Boons applied mid-combat which breaks the flow by a huge amount.

DS #1 – It’s very slow at a full 1 second cast time, it may do high damage but it’s pretty terrible when compared to Dagger #1 which will complete 3 attacks per second… The slow cast time of this also makes using the #2 and #3 skills much harder to do without crippling the damage you’ll do in the short time you can stay in DS.

DS1 is only bad in that instance if you are a condition mancer, at which point DS shouldn’t be used for damage, except to pop crits. At lvl 80 with full zerker gear and a power build. Dagger1 hits for around 150-200, Dagger2 hits for 250, and Dagger3 hits for around 900. That’s a total of 1300 with Crits as high as 2200. DS hits for 2200 normal with crits of 3300 – 4k. That’s twice the hit, and if traited it stacks might, pierces and stacks Vulnerability. Axe 2 with a full power build can hit up to 8k in it’s channel. Dagger is not as great as everyone says it is, and Axe is not as Bad. DS is great if used for the right reasons and in the builds that support it.

For Hybrids and Condition builds, Death Shroud is used for Bleed on crit with DS 4, DS3 and DS2. DS1 is simply used as filler or when waiting for cd, and to possibly stack might if traited.

That’s terrible damage. Something must have gone horribly wrong with your power build.

My dagger auto attack chain hits for up to 9k plus.

I seriously doubt your single Dagger1 auto hits up to 9k as that would be the single highest reported amount at any time, and would be even more powerful than 100b.

Mostly it’s just the delay on impact after casting enfeebling blood that rustles my jimmies, it’s much too slow for an AoE (they are easily gone by the time it lands).

The server lag after the Jan patch are making cast times into much more of an issue, with delays of 1/2 a second plus added to the start of a skill we are dealing with 1.5+ second ground target AoE skills, making them VERY hard to land…

Bas.7406:

Dredlord.8076:

Bas.7406:

Taril.8619:

Rennoko.5731:

All marks should be 1/4 or 1/2 second (like chillbains).

All marks are 3/4 cast. Including Chillblains…

Also Warhorn #4 is only 1/2 cast which is relatively quick for an AoE Daze (Other AoE Daze are 3/4 cast time)

The only skills I feel have a long cast time are:

Focus #5 – Which is very noticeable since a large reason to use it is to remove Boons applied mid-combat which breaks the flow by a huge amount.

DS #1 – It’s very slow at a full 1 second cast time, it may do high damage but it’s pretty terrible when compared to Dagger #1 which will complete 3 attacks per second… The slow cast time of this also makes using the #2 and #3 skills much harder to do without crippling the damage you’ll do in the short time you can stay in DS.

DS1 is only bad in that instance if you are a condition mancer, at which point DS shouldn’t be used for damage, except to pop crits. At lvl 80 with full zerker gear and a power build. Dagger1 hits for around 150-200, Dagger2 hits for 250, and Dagger3 hits for around 900. That’s a total of 1300 with Crits as high as 2200. DS hits for 2200 normal with crits of 3300 – 4k. That’s twice the hit, and if traited it stacks might, pierces and stacks Vulnerability. Axe 2 with a full power build can hit up to 8k in it’s channel. Dagger is not as great as everyone says it is, and Axe is not as Bad. DS is great if used for the right reasons and in the builds that support it.

For Hybrids and Condition builds, Death Shroud is used for Bleed on crit with DS 4, DS3 and DS2. DS1 is simply used as filler or when waiting for cd, and to possibly stack might if traited.

That’s terrible damage. Something must have gone horribly wrong with your power build.

My dagger auto attack chain hits for up to 9k plus.

I seriously doubt your single Dagger1 auto hits up to 9k as that would be the single highest reported amount at any time, and would be even more powerful than 100b.

My dagger auto attack chain hits for up to 9k plus.

the auto attack chain being necrotic slash>stab>bite

Yes necros casting time is too hight comparing to other class , they should lower ct to 1/2s on marks and scepter/dagger becouse fighting on lagre point smt is hard to stack bleeds from marks or scepter aoe becouse enemy is always moving , necro is very good balanced class but comparing to other class he is quite low , easy to focus , easy to kill.So what that we have DS , thief can take our DS in few hits.Necro lack mobility , stun breaks are very bad , so if devs dont want to give us any of this just buff our offensive , lowering casting time will be good at start , just lower ct of few skills and lets make some small steps to make necro competitive to other class. The worst thing is that necro since reales didnt got any buffs or they where usles in pvp , look on patch notes from ranger , ele , thief etc. they all got buffs to make them more vaible , to make more vaibale builds.

Dredlord.8076:

My dagger auto attack chain hits for up to 9k plus.

the auto attack chain being necrotic slash>stab>bite

Even that sounds hilarious incorrect. 3 attacks in 1 second leading to 9k that means you should be able to kill any class in 2 seconds that doesn’t have 20k health. Do you see why it’s impossible to believe that? Besides the fact that would make it even more powerful than 100 blades if this was correct.

Now if you are saying that with wells active and just auto attackign I can take 9k health away we believe it. Wells are powerful, but our most powerful attack is Lich Form which maxes out at 5-6k damage or Axe’s 2 second channel which I believe the highest rated damage I have heard reported was 9k.

The only place you could have your auto dagger hit 9k is in WvWvW with the buffs from the orbs up and fully stacked with might and glass cannon build. If this was the case than awesome. If not, than every necro not running daggers is severely hurting themselves.

I have never seen the full chain hit 9k in any dungeon or open world and definitely not in pvp. Wait no I have seen 9k when I attacked an armadillo I hit 33k once! I will do some testing today in Orr. I have 3.5k power 39 percent crit and 64 percent crit damage as an MM.

I will respec to Full power damage build 30/0/0/10/30, and will try dagger/wh first than swap to dagger Focus and see if I can hit this 9k. I can get over 100 percent crit damage by changing my build around, so this should be interesting.

I could see 9k being doable. If the target is max vulnerability, you have 20 stacks of might, and the target is an underleveled scholar class. Oh, and you crit on all 4 hits.

I dont know bas you’re kinda coming off as a bit of a dick when I am just telling you what I have experienced

I play mainly wvw and I am on storm bluff isle

Here is some damage from a devona guy, no orb bonus and in combat I may have had 3-4 stacks of might.

As you can see it was against another necro player.

Dredlord.8076:

I dont know bas you’re kinda coming off as a bit of a dick when I am just telling you what I have experienced

I play mainly wvw and I am on storm bluff isle

Here is some damage from a devona guy, no orb bonus and in combat I may have had 3-4 stacks of might.

As you can see it was against another necro player.

It is surprising to see you hit 8.3k on the stack, which is good to see. I was just telling you that no numbers like that where you aren’t fully buffed with orbs, might stacks, and full vuln are being reported by anyone else.

From the looks of the combat log, you got a string of three straight crits, and it came immediately after Well of Suffering applied vuln stacks. So what bhawb says holds true, It could happen if all things broke right and you crushed someone severely undergeared. There is no way to verify there was no orb or buffs going on at that time since we are looking at a combat log, but I will grant you that you hit 8.3k with at a minimum 10 stacks of vuln.

I was wrong about it not even hitting 8k in those situations. I am pretty interested in seeing what I could do with a full zerker Axe 2 would hit for now.

Bas.7406:

Dredlord.8076:

I dont know bas you’re kinda coming off as a bit of a dick when I am just telling you what I have experienced

I play mainly wvw and I am on storm bluff isle

Here is some damage from a devona guy, no orb bonus and in combat I may have had 3-4 stacks of might.

As you can see it was against another necro player.

It is surprising to see you hit 8.3k on the stack, which is good to see. I was just telling you that no numbers like that where you aren’t fully buffed with orbs, might stacks, and full vuln are being reported by anyone else.

From the looks of the combat log, you got a string of three straight crits, and it came immediately after Well of Suffering applied vuln stacks. So what bhawb says holds true, It could happen if all things broke right and you crushed someone severely undergeared. There is no way to verify there was no orb or buffs going on at that time since we are looking at a combat log, but I will grant you that you hit 8.3k with at a minimum 10 stacks of vuln.

I was wrong about it not even hitting 8k in those situations. I am pretty interested in seeing what I could do with a full zerker Axe 2 would hit for now.

obviously there is no orb bonus because there is no orb bonus icon there, besides that orbs havent been enabled for ages

your math is also off, the chain hit for 9050

The player was undergeared I agree but it is unlikely he had more than a few stacks of vulnerability as he was able to clear my root and evade my wells almost immediately.

btw your power build 30/0/0/10/30 wont give you that kind of damage, your crit will be too low and you wont have fury either.

It would be nice if you could admit you don’t know the necro as well as you think you do….

I must say that screenshot is pretty nice. That is more damage than I would have expected, but given that it was an under-leveled player, it is hard to guess what his armor was at the time. He could have been in blues/whites for all we know, or level 10 gear.

Orb bonuses have been gone forever… Maybe Bas meant the keep/tower buffs when you claim and activate them. What food were you running when that happened? If that was without food on…. And it also surprises me that you can get that high crit damage without going deep into the DS tree.

You were presumably getting the 20% under 50% HP buff at the time as well. But what do I know, I run conditions

Dredlord.8076:

obviously there is no orb bonus because there is no orb bonus icon there, besides that orbs havent been enabled for ages

your math is also off, the chain hit for 9050

The player was undergeared I agree but it is unlikely he had more than a few stacks of vulnerability as he was able to clear my root and evade my wells almost immediately.

btw your power build 30/0/0/10/30 wont give you that kind of damage, your crit will be too low and you wont have fury either.

It would be nice if you could admit you don’t know the necro as well as you think you do….

Or it could be you aren’t reading what I am writing clearly. I have already stated I rarely wvwvw so obviously my knowledge of what buffs are available are off. What that has to do with my knowledge of the class has nothing to do with it.

I have no problems when I am wrong. My point is that fighting a possible level ten player in wvwvw doesn’t really give us a good read of the damage that we can do. I already said I was suitably impressed, but there is no way for us to know the situation food buffs, debuffs on the guy, how many vuln stacks, might stacks, since your numbers are all guess.

Let’s say he was a lvl 15 running around in whites. Hitting 9k on them is very nice from a necro perspective, but that same attack against an equally geared Necro would probably hit for half that amount and is more indicative of the actual damage of the weapon.

This is the point that I was being a tool about.

Finally, Crit damage > Precision and Fury – i can get 40-42 percent crit without touching the precision tree. You do realize that your 9k is based on your crit damage and has nothing to do with your crit percentage. In fact, if a DS centric build was able to crit on all three dagger strikes his numbers would be higher.

Bas.7406:

In fact, if a DS centric build was able to crit on all three dagger strikes his numbers would be higher.

That was the question I was thinking about. How hard would that have been, however unlikely the odds, if there WERE 30 points in the DS tree. That is 30% more damage on crits, so it would have been much harder. I could do the math, but I am lazy so I can just say that it would have been well OVER 9000!

Sorry for that.

Bas.7406:

Finally, Crit damage > Precision and Fury – i can get 40-42 percent crit without touching the precision tree. You do realize that your 9k is based on your crit damage and has nothing to do with your crit percentage. In fact, if a DS centric build was able to crit on all three dagger strikes his numbers would be higher.

exactly like I said if you want to see damage like that on daggers you need higher crit chance. my crit is close to double yours with fury up. The chain adds up to good damage because I can count on all hits critting more often than not whereas you may have to wait for the stars to align to get 3-4 crits in a row (keep in mind that all the stats you sunk into crit size are wasted for you 60% of the time)

If you want a build where you can go fishing for “teh Uberest DS1 HiT” or Uber lich damage then by all means go 30/0/0/10/30

Rennoko.5731:

Bas.7406:

In fact, if a DS centric build was able to crit on all three dagger strikes his numbers would be higher.

That was the question I was thinking about. How hard would that have been, however unlikely the odds, if there WERE 30 points in the DS tree. That is 30% more damage on crits, so it would have been much harder. I could do the math, but I am lazy so I can just say that it would have been well OVER 9000!

Sorry for that.

yeah it would be great damage when it happened

lets say 42% crit with that build like bas mentioned (.42×.42×.42=.07) that will happen for him less than 1 in ten times

get your crit up to 50-55% and toggle DS for fury (.74×.74×.74=.4) 40% of the time you should crit 3 times in a row

in fact odds are I will more likely pull off 8 crits in a row before bas gets 3 in a row with his 42% crit chance.

I am not advocating for that build, I don’t even like power builds on necro. I was just asking the question, or rather tossing the the wind the question of what it would have been if you had speced that way. 7% chance means it can happen, however remote, and then that would make for a cool screenshot. All I was saying.

Dredlord.8076:

Rennoko.5731:

Bas.7406:

In fact, if a DS centric build was able to crit on all three dagger strikes his numbers would be higher.

That was the question I was thinking about. How hard would that have been, however unlikely the odds, if there WERE 30 points in the DS tree. That is 30% more damage on crits, so it would have been much harder. I could do the math, but I am lazy so I can just say that it would have been well OVER 9000!

Sorry for that.

yeah it would be great damage when it happened

lets say 42% crit with that build like bas mentioned (.42×.42×.42=.07) that will happen for him less than 1 in ten times

get your crit up to 50-55% and toggle DS for fury (.74×.74×.74=.4) 40% of the time you should crit 3 times in a row

So I need to run with a guardian, warrior, or aura mancer ele for fury buffs! I wonder if Axe 2 can beat 9k.

I run 42 percent with 64 to 70 percent crit damage as a MM. I will swap to a DS centric build and see what I can do. I think the big difference we are also forgetting is a DS Centric build can wrap up 18 stacks of might in one DS If they roll extended LF and LB might gains.

This is a fascinating test. Looks like I am shelving MM while I test this!

So yeah, casting times on Necro are too long and should be decreased across the board.
Signet Cooldowns as well, except for Undeath which needs a passive buff instead.

Just noticed something whilst playing my Necro some more:

Summon Bone Minion – 1.5 Second cast on land, 0.5 in water.
Summon Bone Fiend – 1.5 Second cast on land, 0.5 in water.
Summon Shadow Fiend – 1.5 Second cast on land, 0.5 in water.

Would be nice to have summons being 0.5 at all times (Especially for Bone Minions/Shadow Fiend whom will die often and Flesh Wurm who needs summoning every fight)

Taril.8619:

Just noticed something whilst playing my Necro some more:

Summon Bone Minion – 1.5 Second cast on land, 0.5 in water.
Summon Bone Fiend – 1.5 Second cast on land, 0.5 in water.
Summon Shadow Fiend – 1.5 Second cast on land, 0.5 in water.

Would be nice to have summons being 0.5 at all times (Especially for Bone Minions/Shadow Fiend whom will die often and Flesh Wurm who needs summoning every fight)

Huh. That is weird. I also never noticed before that the minion summoning skills effectively have two casting times: the time it takes for your character to swing their arm, and the time for the minion to climb out of the ground/random point in the water.

Other skills have a second hidden timer. Think about enfeebling blood, and how painful its second delay is while it is swarming around in the air after your cast has finished before it crashes to the ground.

War horn is ridiculous. A large portion of the 4 skill seems to be taken up in the animation after it happens.

Rennoko.5731:

Other skills have a second hidden timer. Think about enfeebling blood, and how painful its second delay is while it is swarming around in the air after your cast has finished before it crashes to the ground.

True, but that one I was somewhat aware of. It just surprised me to realize that the minion skills, which already have such long cast times, had yet more delay on them.

Huh… I’ve also just noticed some other things:

Consume Conditions – 1.25 second cast on land – 0.5 in water.
Summon Blood Fiend – 1.5 second cast on land – 0.5 in water.
Epidemic – 1 second cast on land – 0.5 in water.
Blood is Power – 0.75 second cast on land – 0.5 in water.
Signet of the Locust – 0.75 second cast on land – 0.5 in water.
Signet of Spite – 0.75 second cast on land – 0.5 in water.
Signet of Undeath – 2 second cast on land – 1 second in water.

No wonder Necro feels so smooth and fluid in water, all their cast times are reduced by about 1 second…

Taril.8619:

Huh… I’ve also just noticed some other things:

Consume Conditions – 1.25 second cast on land – 0.5 in water.
Summon Blood Fiend – 1.5 second cast on land – 0.5 in water.
Epidemic – 1 second cast on land – 0.5 in water.
Blood is Power – 0.75 second cast on land – 0.5 in water.
Signet of the Locust – 0.75 second cast on land – 0.5 in water.
Signet of Spite – 0.75 second cast on land – 0.5 in water.
Signet of Undeath – 2 second cast on land – 1 second in water.

No wonder Necro feels so smooth and fluid in water, all their cast times are reduced by about 1 second…

actually I would love to hear the devs reasoning behind this one.

However I FEAR them just increasing the cast times under water just to SPITE us once it has been brought to their attention.

Water has been normalized to faster cast across almost all our skills, not sure about other classes. I always thought it was an intentional design decision to make water combat feel better, since it is already incredibly akward to fight in that environment.

Also our underwater fear is insanely powerful considering it is AOE and lasts 4 seconds with duration at 100%, and has a short cooldown.

Rennoko.5731:

Water has been normalized to faster cast across almost all our skills, not sure about other classes. I always thought it was an intentional design decision to make water combat feel better, since it is already incredibly akward to fight in that environment.

Also our underwater fear is insanely powerful considering it is AOE and lasts 4 seconds with duration at 100%, and has a short cooldown.

I figured it was because our weapon attacks are horrbile, and we get stuck with only plague form for an elite, and that outside of spear we have zero weapons skills worth talking about.

Speak for yourself power-noob. Trident 1/3 is great for conditions.

Rennoko.5731:

Speak for yourself power-noob. Trident 1/3 is great for conditions.

trident 5 is great for powernoobs. And it’s MR. POWERNOOB. I didn’t marry noob it’s my name :P.

Bas.7406:

Rennoko.5731:

Speak for yourself power-noob. Trident 1/3 is great for conditions.

trident 5 is great for powernoobs. And it’s MR. POWERNOOB. I didn’t marry noob it’s my name :P.

No kidding. Frozen Abyss scales at 3x power for damage (based on the formula I was given). That’s not including the extra damage they take from the vulnerability stacks it applies before the damage.

Necros have a fantastic kit for underwater. 3 interrupts, lots of AoE, pulsing blind and poison, condition transfer, high mobility, and hard hitting skills. Really, most classes can’t touch us in the water.

9K across a dagger auto attack chain is very much realistic and doable without might and vuln, it’s not OP because the chain takes 2 seconds to deliver all 4 hits, not one second.

If you look at the thief dagger auto attack you’ll find it’s almost exactly the same- same animations, different graphical and secondary effects, but necro does more damage (of course they have heartseekers but thats a different story).

Our dagger auto attack is our most damaging ability save for the lich autoattack by a considerable margin.

Bas.7406:

Rennoko.5731:

Speak for yourself power-noob. Trident 1/3 is great for conditions.

trident 5 is great for powernoobs. And it’s MR. POWERNOOB. I didn’t marry noob it’s my name :P.

Baahaha nice one Bas.