Guild Wars 2

Chill currently doesn’t work on anything with a break bar. No damage, no CD increase, no movement effect.

It does however reduce breakbars by a tiny bit.

Edit:

Overall effect = our reaper GM trait has absolutely 0 effect on every boss in HoT rendering it completely useless.

That’s stupid.

if chill is going to be major for reaper. that needs to change

maybe it will only slow by 33%. or maybe it slows movement. but it needs to do something

It would be nice to see a small buff to its ability to break the bar. or provide maybe bar degen?

Sounds like a bug to me honestly. It should deal damage at the very least if you trait for it.

It doesn’t apply at all. and I actually made a mistake in the original post. you can NEVER apply chill to enemies with break bars. Breaking the bar gives them a ~5s stun and instantly resets the bar meaning no chill ever sticks to the enemies.

This is also true for cripple but it isn’t as big of a deal.

There is also no icon for chill damage currently in the game. I thought I saw it in the POI, but it isn’t in the beta. Hopefully they add it back. I had to go into the combat log to see how much damage it was doing or if it was working at all.

Additionally the 5 chill limit is really dumb when using a whirl finisher. RS5 + RS4 sends out about 20 chilling bolts… only the first 5 do anything then the rest are wasted. Either whirl finishers need to change to do longer chills and less bolts or the limit needs to be removed.

Overall it seems reaper is supposed to rely heavily on chill yet chill is completely unusable in the current PvE game.

Ergh they said they might do this. This is the worst move they could possibly have made. I had hoped they would realise that without even resorting to testing it on live.

The slow and cooldown increase is what gives chill huge potential in future content (lots of frequent abilities with cooldowns that can be affected by chill). It could potentially be a very poweful defensive debuff. It already saves necro some trouble on fights like lupi.

I’m hoping this is a bug.

Vlad Morbius.1759:

I’m hoping this is a bug.

Definitely not a bug if it’s reducing the break bar. It is a pretty bad design decision, though. Hopefully they’ll allow movement-inhibiting conditions to stick to bosses.

Robert Gee said a while ago in the mesmer forum that they are working on allowing in some way chill, slow etc… on defiant bosses (which probably included break bar)

I agree that this is a bad choice. I hope Anet decides on some sort of in-between where movement-inhibiting effects reduce less of a boss’s break bar so the conditions can actually apply before it’s broken.

It’s saddening that many Reaper traits that benefit from chill, either by applying it or striking a foe with it, are rendered useless for these encounters.

Yep here is the post
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Chronomancer-Changes-for-Next-BWE/first#post5383336

Robert Gee.9246:

We have a tech solution in the works CC effects like slow, chill, cripple, etc on defiant creatures. I don’t want to say too much about it since I’m not sure when it will ship or how much it will change before then but we do want your traits to work on bosses.

Seems pretty clear that this is not their final solution, since this change specifically makes it so our traits don’t work on bosses, which is the exact opposite of their stated goal.

chill seems completely ineffectual. the damage added is fine but the actual condition hardly seems to make a difference.

Captain Unusual.9163:

Robert Gee.9246:

We have a tech solution in the works CC effects like slow, chill, cripple, etc on defiant creatures. I don’t want to say too much about it since I’m not sure when it will ship or how much it will change before then but we do want your traits to work on bosses.

Seems pretty clear that this is not their final solution, since this change specifically makes it so our traits don’t work on bosses, which is the exact opposite of their stated goal.

No that’s what I meant. They are planing to change this. I don’t know if chill will actually apply its effect (CD increase and soft CC) but all the traits depending on it will work (so the damage, the might, etc…).

Anchoku.8142:

chill seems completely ineffectual. the damage added is fine but the actual condition hardly seems to make a difference.

Did they increase the deathly chill damage?

Zetsumei.4975:

Anchoku.8142:

chill seems completely ineffectual. the damage added is fine but the actual condition hardly seems to make a difference.

Did they increase the deathly chill damage?

They doubled it

Silverkey.2078:

Zetsumei.4975:

Anchoku.8142:

chill seems completely ineffectual. the damage added is fine but the actual condition hardly seems to make a difference.

Did they increase the deathly chill damage?

They doubled it

They still should make the trait change chill into sth different, like “frost” , which is like chill except it stacks in intensity and deals damage. That way they could add meaningful damage to chill while having the decreased duration as the downside,

Shiki.7148:

Silverkey.2078:

Zetsumei.4975:

Anchoku.8142:

chill seems completely ineffectual. the damage added is fine but the actual condition hardly seems to make a difference.

Did they increase the deathly chill damage?

They doubled it

They still should make the trait change chill into sth different, like “frost” , which is like chill except it stacks in intensity and deals damage. That way they could add meaningful damage to chill while having the decreased duration as the downside,

I think the major problem is the fact that chill stacks duration and only stacks 5 times. If they could give us an intensity stacking chill effect then I think the damage would be good (even a little high) and it would solve most of the major problems it currently has.

What if chill is applied but they don’t get the slowdown on movement and cd? Still the damage however

Kidel.2057:

What if chill is applied but they don’t get the slowdown on movement and cd? Still the damage however

That would be fine, but it would still suffer the same problem as conditions of the past. It wouldn’t stack with other players chills and would be overwritten and hit the stack cap very quickly.

They spent a lot of time and effort fixing conditions and then immediately introduced a new condition that ignored all their progress… I just don’t understand why.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Kidel.2057:

What if chill is applied but they don’t get the slowdown on movement and cd? Still the damage however

That would be fine, but it would still suffer the same problem as conditions of the past. It wouldn’t stack with other players chills and would be overwritten and hit the stack cap very quickly.

They spent a lot of time and effort fixing conditions and then immediately introduced a new condition that ignored all their progress… I just don’t understand why.

Bring on the Brainfreeze trait! Just let our chills cause torment! Or confusion! :P

Chill should always do damage if it’s traited to do so on targets regardless of whether they have break bars or not. The chill effect should also at least reduce the break bar somewhat. Not sure why they wouldn’t address this. No point in adding this whole chillomancer if the only they are will be good for is trash mobs.

Of course there is still the stack cap. Idk, make it so you can stack the damage on chill like burning and bleeds, but make the chill effect not stack like that. Not sure if that’s possible though.

Edit: Or do like ron just mentioned and make chill add another damaging condi type instead.

I know there aren’t a lot of conditionmancers anymore but just want to keep this up there so that hopefully we can be viable!

If chill were changed to a fully-stacking condition, then the impairment may be something like this:
1 chill reduces movement (except mobility skills) by 10% up to a 50% cap and skill ICD by 5% to a 50% cap, except on bosses where it takes a stack of 10 to equal a stack of 1.

Then, every profession gets its chill application skills reviewed.

Anchoku.8142:

If chill were changed to a fully-stacking condition, then the impairment may be something like this:
1 chill reduces movement (except mobility skills) by 10% up to a 50% cap and skill ICD by 5% to a 50% cap, except on bosses where it takes a stack of 10 to equal a stack of 1.

Then, every profession gets its chill application skills reviewed.

That’s an extreme solution that will never happen.

There are much easier solutions. change the chill to “frost” and have necromancers apply one stack of “frost” every time they apply chill. This requires no rework of anyone and fixes the stacking problem, the damage problem, the cap problem and the defiance bar problem.

Or just remove the cap from chill. The game worked perfectly fine for 3 years without a chill cap, it was never once brought up as a problem, and it never caused any issues. Then they went and nerfed chill a dozen different ways for no apparent reason.

conversely a single chill takes about 50% of revenant’s #5 shield defiance bar ;p

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Anchoku.8142:

If chill were changed to a fully-stacking condition, then the impairment may be something like this:
1 chill reduces movement (except mobility skills) by 10% up to a 50% cap and skill ICD by 5% to a 50% cap, except on bosses where it takes a stack of 10 to equal a stack of 1.

Then, every profession gets its chill application skills reviewed.

That’s an extreme solution that will never happen.

There are much easier solutions. change the chill to “frost” and have necromancers apply one stack of “frost” every time they apply chill. This requires no rework of anyone and fixes the stacking problem, the damage problem, the cap problem and the defiance bar problem.

Or just remove the cap from chill. The game worked perfectly fine for 3 years without a chill cap, it was never once brought up as a problem, and it never caused any issues. Then they went and nerfed chill a dozen different ways for no apparent reason.

Thats what I would do to fix fear terror too.

In other words: There is a new condition called Frost that only gets applied on Traited chills. Maybe it can stack like burning too.

Or for fear: it can be changed into a status effect (like taunt), and apply the new condition “terror” when Traited.

Please help us Robert Gree you are our only hope!

Conditionmancers are people too!

Chill helps degrade the break bar more than normal stuns and dazes. Chill application counts as a crowd control and so does cripple and blind. These are soft crowd controls but can be applied much quicky and more easily than hard cc’s FEAR, STUN, KOCKBACK

Stop whining about change everyone will be happy when you drop an ice field and spin on it breaking bars faster than any other profession can.

This is tested on player breakbars and its the only easy quick way I found to break the revy break bar before they could even finish healing. Besides the goal will be to break bars anyways the way boss fights happen are going to change its not going to be all about doing damage.

Killyox.3950:

conversely a single chill takes about 50% of revenant’s #5 shield defiance bar ;p

yes 3 chilling bolts from a spin finisher will break a revy’s break bar these people need to see that chill is better as it currently is.

Anchoku.8142:

If chill were changed to a fully-stacking condition, then the impairment may be something like this:
1 chill reduces movement (except mobility skills) by 10% up to a 50% cap and skill ICD by 5% to a 50% cap, except on bosses where it takes a stack of 10 to equal a stack of 1.

Then, every profession gets its chill application skills reviewed.

Ewww!!!!! no this is a terra bad idea. Chill should stay as a duration conditon not an intensity condition.

Intensity chill would mean that durations were much shorter making it overall much more ineffective.

ZDragon.3046:

Chill helps degrade the break bar more than normal stuns and dazes. Chill application counts as a crowd control and so does cripple and blind. These are soft crowd controls but can be applied much quicky and more easily than hard cc’s FEAR, STUN, KOCKBACK

Stop whining about change everyone will be happy when you drop an ice field and spin on it breaking bars faster than any other profession can.

This is tested on player breakbars and its the only easy quick way I found to break the revy break bar before they could even finish healing. Besides the goal will be to break bars anyways the way boss fights happen are going to change its not going to be all about doing damage.

trolling? or serious and just very ignorant?

ZDragon.3046:

Chill helps degrade the break bar more than normal stuns and dazes. Chill application counts as a crowd control and so does cripple and blind. These are soft crowd controls but can be applied much quicky and more easily than hard cc’s FEAR, STUN, KOCKBACK

Stop whining about change everyone will be happy when you drop an ice field and spin on it breaking bars faster than any other profession can.

This is tested on player breakbars and its the only easy quick way I found to break the revy break bar before they could even finish healing. Besides the goal will be to break bars anyways the way boss fights happen are going to change its not going to be all about doing damage.

Breakbars arent the only thing chill revolves around. We have several traits that depend on chill being actually on the target to be effective. That cant happen if the condition just becomes a defiant bar breaker. I really dont want to see chill become only useful for trash mobs like blind is currently. Its a good condition on bosses when it applies and effects their movement speed and skill cooldowns. The content just isnt hard enough for people to consider it much. That should change with better encounter design. Theres no need to slap on immunity. Because by making it a defiant breaker it is essentially making bosses immune to chill.

ps. As a necro solo’er im fully aware of how valuable chill is to surviving difficult boss solos’s.

Killyox.3950:

conversely a single chill takes about 50% of revenant’s #5 shield defiance bar ;p

Don’t count on that being the case at release, all breakbars were extremely weak in the last beta weekend. Expect soft CC to have a lot less effect/breakbars to be stronger across the board next time around.

And on topic, I do really hope this is addressed as it does basically neuter all reaper chill traits, as well as Terror. Not to mention numerous traits across other professions that rely on these CC conditions to function.

Personally i dont think soft CC should affect break bars at all. Chill, cripple, weakness and maybe immob should work as normal. Blind would be the only soft CC that should effect break bars simply because its too powerful to allow to work on bosses.

This… just seems odd. I saw it going a completely different direction where you’d want full chill uptime to space out larger attacks so you could actually have enough active defenses to avoid them (much like you’re required to do for necro solo’s currently). So this is quite a shock.

ZDragon, if you think this will be something that defines necro I can’t help but feel you’re mistaken. Solo sure it’ll be nice, in a group Engi/Ele drops the Ice field while a warrior or whoever does a whirl and pop bar gone.

Can’t say I can understand this move unless their system is just so limited they feel it would disrupt the series of events (much like Lupi/Grawl phases are tied to their animations).

The thing is, if they are worried about players messing with animations and skill cooldowns and therefore breaking phases then they shouldnt have created the condition slow. So theres really no excuse to this change. :P

And the idea of turning half the conditions into PvP/trash mob only is really boring and disappointing to me. Because it looks like that is whats happening.

spoj.9672:

The thing is, if they are worried about players messing with animations and skill cooldowns and therefore breaking phases then they shouldnt have created the condition slow. So theres really no excuse to this change. :P

I really imagine that was a cool idea they had for PVP and they already got it all working before the PVE team had a chance to get kittened off. “ok ok we’ll just disable all that stuff and make it reduce the breakbar, that’ll work”.

I think there should be an extra mechanic that causes the chill/slow/weakness/blind to be on the boss, but besides reducing the breakbar, each one of these should lower the boss’ damage by a percentage. Though they don’t have their usual effects, they still debuff the boss.
It would balance out since chill, slow and weakness are a full time job to keep up, and the same can be said about blind, since it gets removed with each attack the boss does.

This would make CC’ing the boss actual controlling, keeping those debuffs on the boss would require some people to actually pay attention to it. Make people actually care about a CC spec, instead of letting them just throwing random debuffs on the boss to lower the break bar and calling it a CC spec(which would still be a thing).

Fear has the same issue with the breakbar. I wish it would work like it does with defiance where the cc side of it will be blocked but the condition still applies. That way, terror traits can still do damage.

As I mentioned, this will be fixed in a near future.

But in general, there is an obvious design flaw of PvE which hurts particularly necromancers: why are buffs ok but debuffs aren’t? Why can you use aegis to protect yourself (except against unblockable skills) but not blind (against ANY skill)? Why is party-wide protection ok but enemy weakness isn’t.

I understand that they don’t want to lockdown a boss, but each time a debuff is nerfed against bosses, the corresponding buff should be nerfed too!

Then necromancer will give essentially as much support as a guardian.

Weakness is designed terribly as it’s unreliable. Blind would be silly OP if it worked on bosses mainly due to how readily available it is.

Personally, I think each profession’s elite specialization has inherent weaknesses to other specializations. PvE bosses in HoT will also have mechanics that encourage professions to cover for each other.

The one thing GW2 has not done well is encourage team coordination. Only tpvp does that, now. Dungeons have been disappointingly Pug-ish where players zerg however they like and, those who do not do it right, get flamed.

The new raid content will, hopefully, do more to encourage players to cooperate and support one another.

Some in GW2 will dispute my assertion but there is a definite difference in player cooperation between Gw2 and other games where a trinity is absolutely required.

FYI
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/Defiance-and-Soft-Crowd-Control