Guild Wars 2

I’ve seen allot of people saying that condi reaper won’t be a thing and or wont be good. And I’d actually say otherwise. I see it having much higher potential for condition then the base necromancer. Now of course you lose out on somethings when going from death shroud to Reaper’s shroud. A terrormancer might prefer the ability to run Death shroud in order to push people off points or fear people off cliffs. And this is a legitimate reason not to run reaper. But other styles of builds might very well function far better with reaper than the core necromancer.

So lets say you trait fully to damage with conditions in Death shroud. We don’t yet know much blood magic will change so I’m just going to use what we know at this very moment to compare. So lets say you go full terrormancer. You run terror, corrupted path and weakening shroud. You can run the same traits on reaper so no real difference there. Blood might give you a boost to your dagger skills or death could give you some damage reduction, but none of them really provide a whole lot for the necromancer in terms of condi outside of Curse and Soul reaping. But soul reaping really only provides a grand total of ONE trait that directly impacts your damage with conditions without being comboed with another trait. Master of Terror doesn’t directly cause damage.

So what does that have to do with Reaper? well, first of when we look at the trait line its in the same boat as Soul reaping. It only has ONE trait that directly impacts your condition damage, Deathly Chills. But like Soul reaping it has traits to support Itself. Unlike Soul reaping you don’t need to take another trait line to benefit from the damage boost. Chilling Nova works with Deathly chills rather well as does Chilling Force giving you might and life force to further benefit your damage. It works well in a vacuum.

Although the Argument I’ve heard has mostly been about the fact it doesn’t inflict damaging conditions. Which isn’t true. The reaper’s shroud inflicts Poison, which sure is the only condition that directly deals damage while in the reaper’s shroud. But combining it with traits you suddenly have your auto, the poison, the fear and the chill all dealing damage. Not to mention the bleeds you get from barbed precision which will be triggering more often with the reaper because of the reaper’s shroud having more multiple hit attacks to trigger it.

When you compare it with the base Necromancer they get torment, terror, dark path’s bleed, Dhuumfire and of course barbed precision. So each of them can inflict the same number of Damage conditions as the other. But the disadvantage of the Core necromancer is how slow it is on activation. It has some range advantage on reaper which will always be a factor. But its raw condition damage potential is far lower. Especially when we take dhuumfire into consideration.

Life blast is slow. I mean, really really slow. It has a 1 second cast time and an after cast delay. The life rend cycle is much quicker in comparison. at 1/2 a second cast time per strike and the last strike hitting 5 targets, it has the potential of applying 3 stacks of burning by the time life blast is ready to strike its second time. This also means that barbed precision has more chances to trigger as well, thus higher damage from that as well.

I could go on and on about the comparisons. I know there are a few advantages for Condi necro over condi reaper and its hard to determine the damage output that Deathly Chills will provide as well, but even without that the damage potention for conditions is much higher then with the basic Necromancer. Some have said “Running Great Sword is a bad idea as a condi weapon” and I agree. Its a terrible condi weapon. Thats why I wont be running it. Scepter/dagger and perhaps scepter/focus. But that’s up in the air. Personally, I like the idea of Hybrid condi reaper for PvE. And I’ll be having a blast with my condi reaper with my high stacks of burning along with heavy bleed application and I’ll finally be able to go in melee as a condi spec on my necromancer. Something I’ve been longing to do for a while now.

I agree with you in some points. Condi reaper has a high potential on paper and i am looking foward try it out when beta comes. I think it has same potential or even higher than the traditional terrormancer. Perma chill + burning, can definitely cover for terror damage. But gotta wait and see …

Lynnie.7213:

I agree with you in some points. Condi reaper has a high potential on paper and i am looking foward try it out when beta comes. I think it has same potential or even higher than the traditional terrormancer. Perma chill + burning, can definitely cover for terror damage. But gotta wait and see …

You can still run terror if that’s your cup of tea. Personally, the 100% condition duration is going to be needed for a condi build and is just too good to pass up. At least in PvE. Hard to say about PvP. But considering Terrormancer is pretty lacking at the moment we’ll have to see how that turns out.

They should get rid of the 100% condition duration cap. Atleast for PvE. Or make condition specific duration go over the condition cap. Lingering Curses puts condition duration at 100% and Hemophelia can whip it up to 120% for example.

I like the idea behind a condition reapers as I always played a condition necromancer myself. The changes to condition in general (removing 25 bleed cap and stacking poison/burning) are gonna boost our damage by a significantly amount already. I wanna see howmuch poison stacks we can get up. Imagine bleeds ticking around 4k, poison that ticks for 1k+ and 10-12 burning stacks from Dhuumfire. And chill that does damage is my wet dream for Plague with Chilling Darkness :O

Not exactly pure condi, but this was my idea for a hybrid reaper.

http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgQF7ALkBmg~

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fRAQJBLhLyRTRN83AA-TxRLABvoc4BVcsRJnE7PAgegUVPIIlgAA-e

I would also include a great sword, the new shout that breaks stuns, and the new shout that transfers conditions. The idea is that it might be weak in solo roaming or duels, but great in groups and provide good sustained damage when in groups while still being able to cleave through foes.

Lily.1935:

When you compare it with the base Necromancer they get torment, terror, dark path’s bleed, Dhuumfire and of course barbed precision. So each of them can inflict the same number of Damage conditions as the other. But the disadvantage of the Core necromancer is how slow it is on activation. It has some range advantage on reaper which will always be a factor. But its raw condition damage potential is far lower. Especially when we take dhuumfire into consideration.

Life blast is slow. I mean, really really slow. It has a 1 second cast time and an after cast delay. The life rend cycle is much quicker in comparison. at 1/2 a second cast time per strike and the last strike hitting 5 targets, it has the potential of applying 3 stacks of burning by the time life blast is ready to strike its second time. This also means that barbed precision has more chances to trigger as well, thus higher damage from that as well.

One major thing that you are I believe neglecting here: reaper shroud not only has a lot less condi application than death shroud, it is also all melee. You can neither interrupt/cc someone with fear from range in rs, nor do you have the teleport from dark path (the movement skill that replaces ist is not much better than just running with swiftness). Given how most high burst classes do their burst up close, I think what you should really ever want to do on a condi necro (or any condi class in this game) is kite. RS is really bad here.

Picking up chill damage also means losing the sustain from blighter’s boon. So the fact that condition builds have far less sustain than power builds will still remains valid. Even if one cannot know now precisely how condi reaper will compare to current terromancer, I am fairly sure that if everything will be as we know so far then it will at least be far inferior to power reaper.

hybrid sounds like a solid choice to me. better than all out condi atleast

Tissitra.4153:

Lily.1935:

When you compare it with the base Necromancer they get torment, terror, dark path’s bleed, Dhuumfire and of course barbed precision. So each of them can inflict the same number of Damage conditions as the other. But the disadvantage of the Core necromancer is how slow it is on activation. It has some range advantage on reaper which will always be a factor. But its raw condition damage potential is far lower. Especially when we take dhuumfire into consideration.

Life blast is slow. I mean, really really slow. It has a 1 second cast time and an after cast delay. The life rend cycle is much quicker in comparison. at 1/2 a second cast time per strike and the last strike hitting 5 targets, it has the potential of applying 3 stacks of burning by the time life blast is ready to strike its second time. This also means that barbed precision has more chances to trigger as well, thus higher damage from that as well.

One major thing that you are I believe neglecting here: reaper shroud not only has a lot less condi application than death shroud, it is also all melee. You can neither interrupt/cc someone with fear from range in rs, nor do you have the teleport from dark path (the movement skill that replaces ist is not much better than just running with swiftness). Given how most high burst classes do their burst up close, I think what you should really ever want to do on a condi necro (or any condi class in this game) is kite. RS is really bad here.

Picking up chill damage also means losing the sustain from blighter’s boon. So the fact that condition builds have far less sustain than power builds will still remains valid. Even if one cannot know now precisely how condi reaper will compare to current terromancer, I am fairly sure that if everything will be as we know so far then it will at least be far inferior to power reaper.

Dhuumfire means it has crazy reliable AOE burn application. Chill can deal damage. It can give poison and corrupt AOE boons with path of corruption. Still has fear. RS has just as much condition application as DS did.

As I see Condition Necro in future is either Curses+SR+Death Magic or Curses+SR+Reaper.

Honestly, out of whole elite spec, the thing I’m most excited about is Blighter’s Boon.

Lily.1935:

Lynnie.7213:

I agree with you in some points. Condi reaper has a high potential on paper and i am looking foward try it out when beta comes. I think it has same potential or even higher than the traditional terrormancer. Perma chill + burning, can definitely cover for terror damage. But gotta wait and see …

You can still run terror if that’s your cup of tea. Personally, the 100% condition duration is going to be needed for a condi build and is just too good to pass up. At least in PvE. Hard to say about PvP. But considering Terrormancer is pretty lacking at the moment we’ll have to see how that turns out.

Yeah, like you said, the 100% condi duration trait is too good to pass. I’ll give up on terror and go for that trait. Chill and burning damage will surely make up for terror damage, easily.

Lynnie.7213:

Lily.1935:

Lynnie.7213:

I agree with you in some points. Condi reaper has a high potential on paper and i am looking foward try it out when beta comes. I think it has same potential or even higher than the traditional terrormancer. Perma chill + burning, can definitely cover for terror damage. But gotta wait and see …

You can still run terror if that’s your cup of tea. Personally, the 100% condition duration is going to be needed for a condi build and is just too good to pass up. At least in PvE. Hard to say about PvP. But considering Terrormancer is pretty lacking at the moment we’ll have to see how that turns out.

Yeah, like you said, the 100% condi duration trait is too good to pass. I’ll give up on terror and go for that trait. Chill and burning damage will surely make up for terror damage, easily.

This ^.

The extra duration also means your chills & fears will last longer which in turn means less incoming damage.

The only real down side to reaper (especially condi reaper) is the fact that the shroud forces it to go melee without having access to gap closers.

This may not be as much of a problem if they had all the siphon traits going through the shroud, but condi reaper doesn’t really have the extra traits available to pick them up.

So I’ll reserve my judgment till I see how well it works. The sheer amount of condition damage seems great but the lack of gap closing & sustain worries me.

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

Lynnie.7213:

Lily.1935:

Lynnie.7213:

I agree with you in some points. Condi reaper has a high potential on paper and i am looking foward try it out when beta comes. I think it has same potential or even higher than the traditional terrormancer. Perma chill + burning, can definitely cover for terror damage. But gotta wait and see …

You can still run terror if that’s your cup of tea. Personally, the 100% condition duration is going to be needed for a condi build and is just too good to pass up. At least in PvE. Hard to say about PvP. But considering Terrormancer is pretty lacking at the moment we’ll have to see how that turns out.

Yeah, like you said, the 100% condi duration trait is too good to pass. I’ll give up on terror and go for that trait. Chill and burning damage will surely make up for terror damage, easily.

This ^.

The extra duration also means your chills & fears will last longer which in turn means less incoming damage.

The only real down side to reaper (especially condi reaper) is the fact that the shroud forces it to go melee without having access to gap closers.

This may not be as much of a problem if they had all the siphon traits going through the shroud, but condi reaper doesn’t really have the extra traits available to pick them up.

So I’ll reserve my judgment till I see how well it works. The sheer amount of condition damage seems great but the lack of gap closing & sustain worries me.

I think the sustain of reaper will be great. Every attack on a chilled target will regenerate life force and our target will be perma chilled. What worry me is the gap closer, the new DS#2 skill seems okayish with 600 range gap closer with low cd, but idk yet …

Tissitra.4153:

Lily.1935:

When you compare it with the base Necromancer they get torment, terror, dark path’s bleed, Dhuumfire and of course barbed precision. So each of them can inflict the same number of Damage conditions as the other. But the disadvantage of the Core necromancer is how slow it is on activation. It has some range advantage on reaper which will always be a factor. But its raw condition damage potential is far lower. Especially when we take dhuumfire into consideration.

Life blast is slow. I mean, really really slow. It has a 1 second cast time and an after cast delay. The life rend cycle is much quicker in comparison. at 1/2 a second cast time per strike and the last strike hitting 5 targets, it has the potential of applying 3 stacks of burning by the time life blast is ready to strike its second time. This also means that barbed precision has more chances to trigger as well, thus higher damage from that as well.

One major thing that you are I believe neglecting here: reaper shroud not only has a lot less condi application than death shroud, it is also all melee. You can neither interrupt/cc someone with fear from range in rs, nor do you have the teleport from dark path (the movement skill that replaces ist is not much better than just running with swiftness). Given how most high burst classes do their burst up close, I think what you should really ever want to do on a condi necro (or any condi class in this game) is kite. RS is really bad here.

Picking up chill damage also means losing the sustain from blighter’s boon. So the fact that condition builds have far less sustain than power builds will still remains valid. Even if one cannot know now precisely how condi reaper will compare to current terromancer, I am fairly sure that if everything will be as we know so far then it will at least be far inferior to power reaper.

Not really. Looking at it as it stands the reaper gets a 15% damage reduction against chilled foes. And since they can combo to get frost armor and have very easy access to child this will make even a full glass reaper have close to the same damage reduction as a full Rabid necro. And if you run rabid you’re looking at about a 31% damage reduction without protection. Combine that with Spectral armor and you’ll have a 64% damage reduction combine with our natural high health along with the addition of that 15% death shroud boost Soul reaping will give us. Overall, we’ll be pretty tough to kill and we can become even tougher then that, but for a rather controlly condi type build it’ll be quite threatening. Especially in WvW. PvP we struggle allot as is. We might have to see quite a few changes there before we can determine how good it will be. I’m not entirely sure myself since we don’t have the full information. But from what I see at the moment there is absolutely no reason to think that a condi reaper wont be just as effective as condi necro if not more effective.

Lynnie.7213:

Lily.1935:

Lynnie.7213:

I agree with you in some points. Condi reaper has a high potential on paper and i am looking foward try it out when beta comes. I think it has same potential or even higher than the traditional terrormancer. Perma chill + burning, can definitely cover for terror damage. But gotta wait and see …

You can still run terror if that’s your cup of tea. Personally, the 100% condition duration is going to be needed for a condi build and is just too good to pass up. At least in PvE. Hard to say about PvP. But considering Terrormancer is pretty lacking at the moment we’ll have to see how that turns out.

Yeah, like you said, the 100% condi duration trait is too good to pass. I’ll give up on terror and go for that trait. Chill and burning damage will surely make up for terror damage, easily.

thats what I’m hoping. Terror really needs to be more burst while Lingering curse needs to be more sustain. At the moment, terror is a bit weak to be a grand master and considering how good Lingering curse will be I think its sustain will out do terror in the short run and long run of the fight.

Don’t confuse good with broken though. Lingering Curse isn’t at all broken. In fact I think it need to be buffed slightly. And By slightly I mean I’ll make the argument I’ve made a couple years ago. It should effect conditions while wielding a scepter OR trident. other than that its great. Keep it as is and we’ll be happy.

Lily.1935:

Tissitra.4153:

Lily.1935:

When you compare it with the base Necromancer they get torment, terror, dark path’s bleed, Dhuumfire and of course barbed precision. So each of them can inflict the same number of Damage conditions as the other. But the disadvantage of the Core necromancer is how slow it is on activation. It has some range advantage on reaper which will always be a factor. But its raw condition damage potential is far lower. Especially when we take dhuumfire into consideration.

Life blast is slow. I mean, really really slow. It has a 1 second cast time and an after cast delay. The life rend cycle is much quicker in comparison. at 1/2 a second cast time per strike and the last strike hitting 5 targets, it has the potential of applying 3 stacks of burning by the time life blast is ready to strike its second time. This also means that barbed precision has more chances to trigger as well, thus higher damage from that as well.

One major thing that you are I believe neglecting here: reaper shroud not only has a lot less condi application than death shroud, it is also all melee. You can neither interrupt/cc someone with fear from range in rs, nor do you have the teleport from dark path (the movement skill that replaces ist is not much better than just running with swiftness). Given how most high burst classes do their burst up close, I think what you should really ever want to do on a condi necro (or any condi class in this game) is kite. RS is really bad here.

Picking up chill damage also means losing the sustain from blighter’s boon. So the fact that condition builds have far less sustain than power builds will still remains valid. Even if one cannot know now precisely how condi reaper will compare to current terromancer, I am fairly sure that if everything will be as we know so far then it will at least be far inferior to power reaper.

Not really. Looking at it as it stands the reaper gets a 15% damage reduction against chilled foes. And since they can combo to get frost armor and have very easy access to child this will make even a full glass reaper have close to the same damage reduction as a full Rabid necro. And if you run rabid you’re looking at about a 31% damage reduction without protection. Combine that with Spectral armor and you’ll have a 64% damage reduction combine with our natural high health along with the addition of that 15% death shroud boost Soul reaping will give us. Overall, we’ll be pretty tough to kill and we can become even tougher then that, but for a rather controlly condi type build it’ll be quite threatening. Especially in WvW. PvP we struggle allot as is. We might have to see quite a few changes there before we can determine how good it will be. I’m not entirely sure myself since we don’t have the full information. But from what I see at the moment there is absolutely no reason to think that a condi reaper wont be just as effective as condi necro if not more effective.

Hmmmm? How does any of that refute the point that condi reaper will have less sustain than power reaper? You still have a lot less LF generation AND you will not be able to spec into blighter’s boon if you want to pick up condi damage with chill.

Actually, necro on paper already is one of the tankiest classes: by default you get 50% damage reduction in death shroud to which you will obviously add some toughness if you run rabid. However, damage reduction is NOT sustain. Especailly if you are constantly focus fired because people know that you have no way to disengage.

And concerning your last point: terrormancer is mostly unviable in group play right now. So condi reaper being just as good is hardly something positive…

Tissitra.4153:

Lily.1935:

Tissitra.4153:

Lily.1935:

When you compare it with the base Necromancer they get torment, terror, dark path’s bleed, Dhuumfire and of course barbed precision. So each of them can inflict the same number of Damage conditions as the other. But the disadvantage of the Core necromancer is how slow it is on activation. It has some range advantage on reaper which will always be a factor. But its raw condition damage potential is far lower. Especially when we take dhuumfire into consideration.

Life blast is slow. I mean, really really slow. It has a 1 second cast time and an after cast delay. The life rend cycle is much quicker in comparison. at 1/2 a second cast time per strike and the last strike hitting 5 targets, it has the potential of applying 3 stacks of burning by the time life blast is ready to strike its second time. This also means that barbed precision has more chances to trigger as well, thus higher damage from that as well.

One major thing that you are I believe neglecting here: reaper shroud not only has a lot less condi application than death shroud, it is also all melee. You can neither interrupt/cc someone with fear from range in rs, nor do you have the teleport from dark path (the movement skill that replaces ist is not much better than just running with swiftness). Given how most high burst classes do their burst up close, I think what you should really ever want to do on a condi necro (or any condi class in this game) is kite. RS is really bad here.

Picking up chill damage also means losing the sustain from blighter’s boon. So the fact that condition builds have far less sustain than power builds will still remains valid. Even if one cannot know now precisely how condi reaper will compare to current terromancer, I am fairly sure that if everything will be as we know so far then it will at least be far inferior to power reaper.

Not really. Looking at it as it stands the reaper gets a 15% damage reduction against chilled foes. And since they can combo to get frost armor and have very easy access to child this will make even a full glass reaper have close to the same damage reduction as a full Rabid necro. And if you run rabid you’re looking at about a 31% damage reduction without protection. Combine that with Spectral armor and you’ll have a 64% damage reduction combine with our natural high health along with the addition of that 15% death shroud boost Soul reaping will give us. Overall, we’ll be pretty tough to kill and we can become even tougher then that, but for a rather controlly condi type build it’ll be quite threatening. Especially in WvW. PvP we struggle allot as is. We might have to see quite a few changes there before we can determine how good it will be. I’m not entirely sure myself since we don’t have the full information. But from what I see at the moment there is absolutely no reason to think that a condi reaper wont be just as effective as condi necro if not more effective.

Hmmmm? How does any of that refute the point that condi reaper will have less sustain than power reaper? You still have a lot less LF generation AND you will not be able to spec into blighter’s boon if you want to pick up condi damage with chill.

Actually, necro on paper already is one of the tankiest classes: by default you get 50% damage reduction in death shroud to which you will obviously add some toughness if you run rabid. However, damage reduction is NOT sustain. Especailly if you are constantly focus fired because people know that you have no way to disengage.

And concerning your last point: terrormancer is mostly unviable in group play right now. So condi reaper being just as good is hardly something positive…

Actually they do. Running With chilling Victory they still get the life force from that plus might. So we have that. And I never said you absolutely had to run Deathly Chills. its an opinion and depending on its damage I might just run blighter’s boon anyway. The sustain is about even and it really depends on how much boon removal you want to take. Since you can take reaper’s precision if that is your desire. And Power can go pure DPS and run reaper’s onslaught which is more comparable to Deathly chills. So its not like Blighter’s boon isn’t an option for one build and is an option for the other. Both will need to make the choice between more damage or greater sustain.

OK so first of all the trait ‘chilling victory’ does not exist. I guess you mean chilling force.

Power necro has more sustain than terrormancer right now. Here is why it will be the same with reaper:

1. LF generation on scepter and offhand dagger very low compared to what power necros have.

2. Picking up terror locks you out of lingering curse → you have to take master of terror → you cannot take vital persistance (which obvously every power necro runs).

3. You can no longer pick up reaper’s precision since that would lock you out of path of corruption.

4. Most power reapers will be running blighter’s boon since the alternative reaper’s onslaught is subpar anyway (at least as it is now). On condi however picking up blighter’s boon would mean losing condition damage from chill.

Basically, you can pick up more sustain on condi only by losing a lot of your potential damage, whereas power hardly has to make that choice. It will be the same in that respect as what it is now.

no question condi needs to rescale vs world to do as much damage as phys — more importantly , necros and mes need to go back to the mechanic of armor ignoring damage. Maybbe not mes but necro dark fields as hated as we are in dungeons, need armor ignoring damage.

Tissitra.4153:

OK so first of all the trait ‘chilling victory’ does not exist. I guess you mean chilling force.

Power necro has more sustain than terrormancer right now. Here is why it will be the same with reaper:

1. LF generation on scepter and offhand dagger very low compared to what power necros have.

2. Picking up terror locks you out of lingering curse -> you have to take master of terror -> you cannot take vital persistance (which obvously every power necro runs).

3. You can no longer pick up reaper’s precision since that would lock you out of path of corruption.

4. Most power reapers will be running blighter’s boon since the alternative reaper’s onslaught is subpar anyway (at least as it is now). On condi however picking up blighter’s boon would mean losing condition damage from chill.

Basically, you can pick up more sustain on condi only by losing a lot of your potential damage, whereas power hardly has to make that choice. It will be the same in that respect as what it is now.

Thanks for the correction in that. I was thinking of a GW1 skills.

Anyway you seem to be missing a big point. Which is you do have the sustain options if you want them. I never said it was optimal or didn’t lock you out of something. Chilling Force does provide life force for the condi build which will have just as much access to chill as a power build. And power builds are going to look very different than what you might perceive at this time since Valkyrie will be a real option players might choose. Though Berserker isn’t out of the question. A player who chooses Valkyrie for example wont be taking blood magic, death magic or Chilling Force. They’ll be valn stacking to maximize their damage while being pretty tanky. How much Sustain one has over the other is yet to be seen. At the moment, yeah you could say that power has greater life force generation than Condi does.

But quite frankly. I have no idea why you’re comparing condi and power when I was comparing the pros and cons of Condi necro to condi reaper to express that it has potential.

There are too many hardcounters for condi to work well at a high or even mid level in pvp games, more are being added.

As much as I love condi…. its flat out useless when you run into more then a few common builds others are running now. Warriors are way to popular, and revenant will likely also be popular really limiting condi builds as a main focus.

As long as mass condi removal remains condi-anything won’t see play. I do think Condi Reaper has some interesting play, especially with the really nice Terror-Deathly Chill(?) synergy, but it won’t be enough when you have 1-2 builds in every team that spam AOE removal.

A player who chooses Valkyrie for example wont be taking blood magic, death magic or Chilling Force

I disagree with the bolded bit. They actually would take it since reapers shroud is a whole lot fast and you have base 54-60% crit in it depending on runes. That’s more than enough to take extra sustain and damage from chilling force over decimate defences. Especially as you have more vitality so the extra LF you have benefits from the % gain more.

However, damage reduction is NOT sustain.

This i disagree with because damage reduction IS a form of sustain. Not only doe it keep you in the fight longer but it also make every point of healing received more meaningful/effective since it takes a greater amount of damage to take those points away.

Condi reapers will have 2 builds. Terror build with terror and chill damage. If the scaling is as it is now terror will be doing just over 1k and the chill damage is 33~66% of terror damage depending on target hp. They will ALWAYS happen together so some good 1.3~1.6k ticks. More with might. Other build is dhuumfire lingering curses with burn duration. Can ramp up to a maximum of 10~12 stacks of burning if left unchecked so 2500~3600 burn damage.

Lily.1935:

Tissitra.4153:

OK so first of all the trait ‘chilling victory’ does not exist. I guess you mean chilling force.

Power necro has more sustain than terrormancer right now. Here is why it will be the same with reaper:

1. LF generation on scepter and offhand dagger very low compared to what power necros have.

2. Picking up terror locks you out of lingering curse -> you have to take master of terror -> you cannot take vital persistance (which obvously every power necro runs).

3. You can no longer pick up reaper’s precision since that would lock you out of path of corruption.

4. Most power reapers will be running blighter’s boon since the alternative reaper’s onslaught is subpar anyway (at least as it is now). On condi however picking up blighter’s boon would mean losing condition damage from chill.

Basically, you can pick up more sustain on condi only by losing a lot of your potential damage, whereas power hardly has to make that choice. It will be the same in that respect as what it is now.

Thanks for the correction in that. I was thinking of a GW1 skills.

Anyway you seem to be missing a big point. Which is you do have the sustain options if you want them. I never said it was optimal or didn’t lock you out of something. Chilling Force does provide life force for the condi build which will have just as much access to chill as a power build. And power builds are going to look very different than what you might perceive at this time since Valkyrie will be a real option players might choose. Though Berserker isn’t out of the question. A player who chooses Valkyrie for example wont be taking blood magic, death magic or Chilling Force. They’ll be valn stacking to maximize their damage while being pretty tanky. How much Sustain one has over the other is yet to be seen. At the moment, yeah you could say that power has greater life force generation than Condi does.

But quite frankly. I have no idea why you’re comparing condi and power when I was comparing the pros and cons of Condi necro to condi reaper to express that it has potential.

Concerning sustain: as already stated, you COULD spec terrormancer for much more sustain. The reason that the meta terrormancer build does NOT do it but is all out damage is because having actual condi burst is much more valuable. It is not just whether you WANT to have more sustain, it is about what you have to sacrifice for it. What will be played is the thing that is most valuable. Picking anything else means gimping your team.

This is also the reason why condi builds first and formost must be compared to power. Power necro right now is simply superior to condi: it has actual hard burst (aoe through wells) that is not just negated by condi removal, comparable (little) utility, better sustain AND it essentially counters condi because of the health pool. So basically, why would you ever pick condi if power is just superior?

In terms of pvp as soon as you are really serious about build choices being viable is the same thing as being optimal.

What I never understand is why they don’t made a quick fix so that when you try to apply an extra stack of condition, instead of discarding the last one, discarding the weakest by checking which one is linked to the player with the fewer condition damages.

The cap would still exists, but condition builds would actually help because their conditions would have priority over, exemple, the bleed applied by a minor passive trait on critical trigger of a zerk/soldier character.

They already track condition damage real time to compute the damages done.

Kulvar.1239:

What I never understand is why they don’t made a quick fix so that when you try to apply an extra stack of condition, instead of discarding the last one, discarding the weakest by checking which one is linked to the player with the fewer condition damages.

Because condition damage is not set in stone (might and stuff), conditions are not equal (what is worth more one stack of 20 seconds of one of 1 second), starvation (meaning that one player never can apply his conditions) is a possiblility in that system and extra computational effort on application.

If the cap is not reach : no stacking issue

As soon as you reach the cap, condition duration don’t matter anymore. Longer duration help stacking more, but when the cap is reach, you can’t stack more, then only damages matter.

When the cap is reach, it means that enough conditions are applied to reach the cap.
When you do a condition build, you try to optimize your ability to stack conditions too, they’re able to refill constantly the stack.
Other build type can “accidentaly” apply conditions too, but they’re weaker.

An example of how condition slots can be locked uselessly :

- Berserk Necromancer
- 6 points in Spite (power + condition duration)
- 4 points in Curses (precision + condition damages)
- 4 points in Soul Reaping (ferocity + class bonus)
- Curses trait : Master of Corruption (Corruption recharge 20% faster)
- Utilities : Corruption – “Blood is Power” (Apply 2x Bleed 30s + grant 10x Might 12s)

Precision, Power, Ferocity, and a trait improving a spell to get 300 power from Might 12s every 24s.

So…
When using it, it apply a 2x 39s Bleeding.
With a CD of 24s, it lock 4 bleed slots for 15s and 2 bleed slots for 9s.
With the 200 condition damage he got from Curses trait line, it make a bleeding tick dealing 53 damages, and 68 damages when the 10 Might buff are up.
The Might buff are there for 12s.

Damages done are :
(4 bleed x 12s x 68) + (4 bleed x 3s x 53) + (2x bleed x 9s x 53)
= 4854 damages

Now, what about a Condi Necro just AFK with the scepter auto-attack ?
With full condition from gear and trait line, a bleed tick damage is 127.

Now it’s a little more complex.

4 bleeds are locked during the first 15s, then 2 bleeds are locked during 9s.
2 Bleeds applied every 3s by the scepter (with enough duration to stack themselves).

Damage not done because of the locked slot are :
4 bleed x 15s x 127 + 2 bleed x 9s x 127
= 9906

Damage loss are 5052 (51%), because of one spell used every 24s. And it’s only for 2 bleeds !

But sources of “accidental” bleeds are many !
- auto-attack who inflict bleeding (warrior sword, thief pistol…)
- minor trait who apply bleeding on critical hit
- spell inflicting bleed aside of an other effect

Currently the max DPS loss is :
25 × 84 = 2100 (bleed) +166 (poison) + 414 (burn)
Total : 2680 DPS
I didn’t add confusion and torment because of the few classes able to apply them and there special way of dealing damages.

Sure, it’ll not solve the condition cap issue, but it’ll at least prevent the negation of having some conditions builds mixed with other type builds.

Baby step by baby step is all we can hope currently, still better than the nothingness we’re used to.

They could also lighten the condition system by preventing characters lvl 80 to apply bleed/poison/burning conditions on bosses if they don’t have at least 900 condition damage from gear+trait line.

Just a full exotic condi gear with condi runes and 0 condition damage from trait line is enough to match the prerequisite.

Kulvar.1239:

If the cap is not reach : no stacking issue

As soon as you reach the cap, condition duration don’t matter anymore. Longer duration help stacking more, but when the cap is reach, you can’t stack more, then only damages matter.

When the cap is reach, it means that enough conditions are applied to reach the cap.
When you do a condition build, you try to optimize your ability to stack conditions too, they’re able to refill constantly the stack.
Other build type can “accidentaly” apply conditions too, but they’re weaker.

An example of how condition slots can be locked uselessly :

- Berserk Necromancer
- 6 points in Spite (power + condition duration)
- 4 points in Curses (precision + condition damages)
- 4 points in Soul Reaping (ferocity + class bonus)
- Curses trait : Master of Corruption (Corruption recharge 20% faster)
- Utilities : Corruption – “Blood is Power” (Apply 2x Bleed 30s + grant 10x Might 12s)

Precision, Power, Ferocity, and a trait improving a spell to get 300 power from Might 12s every 24s.

So…
When using it, it apply a 2x 39s Bleeding.
With a CD of 24s, it lock 4 bleed slots for 15s and 2 bleed slots for 9s.
With the 200 condition damage he got from Curses trait line, it make a bleeding tick dealing 53 damages, and 68 damages when the 10 Might buff are up.
The Might buff are there for 12s.

Damages done are :
(4 bleed x 12s x 68) + (4 bleed x 3s x 53) + (2x bleed x 9s x 53)
= 4854 damages

Now, what about a Condi Necro just AFK with the scepter auto-attack ?
With full condition from gear and trait line, a bleed tick damage is 127.

Now it’s a little more complex.

4 bleeds are locked during the first 15s, then 2 bleeds are locked during 9s.
2 Bleeds applied every 3s by the scepter (with enough duration to stack themselves).

Damage not done because of the locked slot are :
4 bleed x 15s x 127 + 2 bleed x 9s x 127
= 9906

Damage loss are 5052 (51%), because of one spell used every 24s. And it’s only for 2 bleeds !

But sources of “accidental” bleeds are many !
- auto-attack who inflict bleeding (warrior sword, thief pistol…)
- minor trait who apply bleeding on critical hit
- spell inflicting bleed aside of an other effect

Currently the max DPS loss is :
25 × 84 = 2100 (bleed) +166 (poison) + 414 (burn)
Total : 2680 DPS
I didn’t add confusion and torment because of the few classes able to apply them and there special way of dealing damages.

Sure, it’ll not solve the condition cap issue, but it’ll at least prevent the negation of having some conditions builds mixed with other type builds.

Baby step by baby step is all we can hope currently, still better than the nothingness we’re used to.

They could also lighten the condition system by preventing characters lvl 80 to apply bleed/poison/burning conditions on bosses if they don’t have at least 900 condition damage from gear+trait line.

Just a full exotic condi gear with condi runes and 0 condition damage from trait line is enough to match the prerequisite.

Thanks God they are removing the bleed cap. So after the update this won’t be a problem anymore and all of us Conditionmancers are finally worth something on world bosses! Now let’s all hope they remove the duration cap of 100% too…

I think Condi Reaper will have a place and can be even more powerful then current, however I dont see the use of either GS or Reaper Shroud. Condi imho dosent fit the “melee” direction of Reaper/GS skills. The traits can really buff the condimancer tho. Looking at GS skill there is also not much dmg-condis except #5 Poison so I rule GS out from most Condi builds instantly, add Reaper Shroud due to its “melee” nature and the lack of Torment & Bleed I dont see how that fit into Condi Builds either tbh.

As a Power necro fan I see however great potential and love that we can close the gap to the Condimancer with Reaper, it will be a better balanced class come HoT and hopefully both Power nad Condi find there style.

Reaper Shroud due to its “melee” nature and the lack of Torment & Bleed I dont see how that fit into Condi Builds either tbh.

Dhuumfire. It allows you to stack between 6 and 12 stacks of burn. That’s between 2-4k damage in burn ticks.

Sigmoid.7082:

Reaper Shroud due to its “melee” nature and the lack of Torment & Bleed I dont see how that fit into Condi Builds either tbh.

Dhuumfire. It allows you to stack between 6 and 12 stacks of burn. That’s between 2-4k damage in burn ticks.

Yea didnt think of that, yea makes atleast Reaper Shroud more viable for Condis

Sigmoid.7082:

Reaper Shroud due to its “melee” nature and the lack of Torment & Bleed I dont see how that fit into Condi Builds either tbh.

Dhuumfire. It allows you to stack between 6 and 12 stacks of burn. That’s between 2-4k damage in burn ticks.

Chill being able to deal damage… The ice field on #5 + the whirl on #4 is able to stack some long chill AOE. #3 is an AOE fear which gets AOE chill too because of the minor trait. #2 is AOE poison. Bleed on crit from barbed precision works better with the faster cleaving attacks ik Reaper Shroud. More then enough conditions in Reaper Shroud imo.

Gexim.3289:

Sigmoid.7082:

Reaper Shroud due to its “melee” nature and the lack of Torment & Bleed I dont see how that fit into Condi Builds either tbh.

Dhuumfire. It allows you to stack between 6 and 12 stacks of burn. That’s between 2-4k damage in burn ticks.

Chill being able to deal damage… The ice field on #5 + the whirl on #4 is able to stack some long chill AOE. #3 is an AOE fear which gets AOE chill too because of the minor trait. #2 is AOE poison. Bleed on crit from barbed precision works better with the faster cleaving attacks ik Reaper Shroud. More then enough conditions in Reaper Shroud imo.

Still think its going to be split between terror and chill builds and dhuumfire shroud sustain builds. Chill on fear inherently makes terror do max damage.

Nah Dhuumfire will work on AA in Reaper Shroud the rest I dont see fit tbh, as Reaper Shroud is Melee based I cant see any real Condi stacking in it. Melee has and will be Power based due to the fact u want that instant dmg. And GS is out of the question as a Condi weapon…

Not really condi stacking in reapers shroud unless you have dhuumfire but you can path of corruption all other the place. Aoe boon corruption on a 6~4s cooldown so skill #2 fits and also adds poison. Skill 3 is an aoe fear which again fits perfectly fine since that will also chill. Skill #4 can stack a lot of aoe bleeds from barbed precision due to its 11hits. Only #5 dont fit condi builds but in carrior gear they will still hurt A lot due to extremely high damage coefficients.

Its just a different way to play condi.

As for Condi Reaper running something along the lines of this will probably work out pretty well (at least on paper), lots of chill stacking and the free stability/stunbreak every 10 seconds is super strong on necro (you can also go dhuumfire if you want to be more offensive ofc). Worth noting one of the the strongest parts of any reaper build is the 15% damage reduction from chilled foes which is going to be suuuuper strong in duels and just in general in team fights with the amount of chill stacking you can do.

Obviously this is a bit of an aside but the base necro gets a pretty decent buff with the new specialisations as well when you run a more offensive orientated build (this one is terror but you can also run lingering curse). You get a free axe #3 whenever you enter deathshroud as well as the boonripping/chill from spinal shivers and a free cover condi with the vuln on chill. You also get access to the stability/dhuumfire depending on preference which has always been an issue for necro, if you went 30 points into soul reaping/spite you just missed out on too much.

Shadow Dragon Ad.2409:

As for Condi Reaper running something along the lines of this will probably work out pretty well (at least on paper), lots of chill stacking and the free stability/stunbreak every 10 seconds is super strong on necro (you can also go dhuumfire if you want to be more offensive ofc). Worth noting one of the the strongest parts of any reaper build is the 15% damage reduction from chilled foes which is going to be suuuuper strong in duels and just in general in team fights with the amount of chill stacking you can do.

Obviously this is a bit of an aside but the base necro gets a pretty decent buff with the new specialisations as well when you run a more offensive orientated build (this one is terror but you can also run lingering curse). You get a free axe #3 whenever you enter deathshroud as well as the boonripping/chill from spinal shivers and a free cover condi with the vuln on chill. You also get access to the stability/dhuumfire depending on preference which has always been an issue for necro, if you went 30 points into soul reaping/spite you just missed out on too much.

Personally I feel that running Terrormancer isn’t going to be as effective as running Lingering curse with Dhuumfire. My thought is something like this http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgQG6AKkBew~ or http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgQG6ALkBew~ as a relentless pursuit Condimancer. Not saying your build is bad, just not what I would prefer. As for weapons I wouldn’t use Sword. I mean you could, But running scepter at all times might be the best idea. With either Focus or Warhorn as your second offhand.

I’m actually really excited to try condi reaper. I assume the best trait options would be to run standard terrormancer in curses, Master of Terror and Dhuumfire in Soul Reaping (I really wish that Vital persistence + Path of Midnight was still adept), and Chill Damage in Reaper. The AoE Fear may seem a little weaker than the single-target Death Shroud fear, but this actually allows reaper to further pressure foes who are stealthed, as well as doubling as a stability for the heavy cc builds, like hammer warrior, who can potentially wreck a necromancer, as well as applying chill and chill damage due to reaper traits. Dhuumfire on reaper shroud auto is an amazing source of damage that turns reaper shroud into an amazing source of pressure, and Reaper Shroud might have just enough power damage to break the Diamond Skin eles who will become far more common when choosing earth means picking a grandmaster for them.

Cecilia.5179:

I’m actually really excited to try condi reaper. I assume the best trait options would be to run standard terrormancer in curses, Master of Terror and Dhuumfire in Soul Reaping (I really wish that Vital persistence + Path of Midnight was still adept), and Chill Damage in Reaper. The AoE Fear may seem a little weaker than the single-target Death Shroud fear, but this actually allows reaper to further pressure foes who are stealthed, as well as doubling as a stability for the heavy cc builds, like hammer warrior, who can potentially wreck a necromancer, as well as applying chill and chill damage due to reaper traits. Dhuumfire on reaper shroud auto is an amazing source of damage that turns reaper shroud into an amazing source of pressure, and Reaper Shroud might have just enough power damage to break the Diamond Skin eles who will become far more common when choosing earth means picking a grandmaster for them.

Yeah its going to be really exciting. Still the 100% condition duration is really good. You see that a 2 second? 1 second? I can’t tell with the way its worded. It makes a big difference. But you can run full into the fear duration and get 150% duration fear. You sacrifice the damage from terror, sure But thats a worth while trade off in my opinion because of the up time. Also, Lingering curse in the past didn’t count toward your total 100% possible duration. So having this with master of terror should give you a 150% before runes and sigils. Throw that in and your condi duration for whatever you choose could be quite impressive. A crazy idea might be to run Runes of the Necromancer and get 170% fear duration. Not the best suggestion but its still fun to think about. I think Runes of the Nightmare will still be the best option. But I like the idea of using fear to control your foe and not as a source of damage to have long periods of locked down foes sounds like a real option to me. Making it harder for them to defend against you sounds like it could be quite viable.

I’ve even thought about a crazy idea of running Lingering curse in a power build. Which I will test because I actually like the possibility of running a more fear control build.

Rune of the elementalist isn’t a bad option either for a bit more duration on chill and burning. And if course the extra power since we will most likely be running carrion and rs skills scale well with it.

Granted you could also run unyielding blast with decimate instead for a more hybrid setup.

Lily.1935:

Cecilia.5179:

I’m actually really excited to try condi reaper. I assume the best trait options would be to run standard terrormancer in curses, Master of Terror and Dhuumfire in Soul Reaping (I really wish that Vital persistence + Path of Midnight was still adept), and Chill Damage in Reaper. The AoE Fear may seem a little weaker than the single-target Death Shroud fear, but this actually allows reaper to further pressure foes who are stealthed, as well as doubling as a stability for the heavy cc builds, like hammer warrior, who can potentially wreck a necromancer, as well as applying chill and chill damage due to reaper traits. Dhuumfire on reaper shroud auto is an amazing source of damage that turns reaper shroud into an amazing source of pressure, and Reaper Shroud might have just enough power damage to break the Diamond Skin eles who will become far more common when choosing earth means picking a grandmaster for them.

Yeah its going to be really exciting. Still the 100% condition duration is really good. You see that a 2 second? 1 second? I can’t tell with the way its worded. It makes a big difference. But you can run full into the fear duration and get 150% duration fear. You sacrifice the damage from terror, sure But thats a worth while trade off in my opinion because of the up time. Also, Lingering curse in the past didn’t count toward your total 100% possible duration. So having this with master of terror should give you a 150% before runes and sigils. Throw that in and your condi duration for whatever you choose could be quite impressive. A crazy idea might be to run Runes of the Necromancer and get 170% fear duration. Not the best suggestion but its still fun to think about. I think Runes of the Nightmare will still be the best option. But I like the idea of using fear to control your foe and not as a source of damage to have long periods of locked down foes sounds like a real option to me. Making it harder for them to defend against you sounds like it could be quite viable.

I’ve even thought about a crazy idea of running Lingering curse in a power build. Which I will test because I actually like the possibility of running a more fear control build.

As it is right now, Lingering Curses raises the base duration from scepter skills by around 33%. Blood Curse get 5s -> 7s base duration. After that we can add up to 100% duration. So that is a max 14s bleed. With the upcoming changes LC just gives us base condition duration for all conditions (not only scepter skills) so 5s -> 10s max.

Lingering Curses won’t go any longer over the 100%. So for scepter skills this actually is a nerf.

You can’t add over 100% duration on any condition no longer, so 150% or 170% fear duration is not possible sadly.

Gexim.3289:

Lily.1935:

Cecilia.5179:

I’m actually really excited to try condi reaper. I assume the best trait options would be to run standard terrormancer in curses, Master of Terror and Dhuumfire in Soul Reaping (I really wish that Vital persistence + Path of Midnight was still adept), and Chill Damage in Reaper. The AoE Fear may seem a little weaker than the single-target Death Shroud fear, but this actually allows reaper to further pressure foes who are stealthed, as well as doubling as a stability for the heavy cc builds, like hammer warrior, who can potentially wreck a necromancer, as well as applying chill and chill damage due to reaper traits. Dhuumfire on reaper shroud auto is an amazing source of damage that turns reaper shroud into an amazing source of pressure, and Reaper Shroud might have just enough power damage to break the Diamond Skin eles who will become far more common when choosing earth means picking a grandmaster for them.

Yeah its going to be really exciting. Still the 100% condition duration is really good. You see that a 2 second? 1 second? I can’t tell with the way its worded. It makes a big difference. But you can run full into the fear duration and get 150% duration fear. You sacrifice the damage from terror, sure But thats a worth while trade off in my opinion because of the up time. Also, Lingering curse in the past didn’t count toward your total 100% possible duration. So having this with master of terror should give you a 150% before runes and sigils. Throw that in and your condi duration for whatever you choose could be quite impressive. A crazy idea might be to run Runes of the Necromancer and get 170% fear duration. Not the best suggestion but its still fun to think about. I think Runes of the Nightmare will still be the best option. But I like the idea of using fear to control your foe and not as a source of damage to have long periods of locked down foes sounds like a real option to me. Making it harder for them to defend against you sounds like it could be quite viable.

I’ve even thought about a crazy idea of running Lingering curse in a power build. Which I will test because I actually like the possibility of running a more fear control build.

As it is right now, Lingering Curses raises the base duration from scepter skills by around 33%. Blood Curse get 5s -> 7s base duration. After that we can add up to 100% duration. So that is a max 14s bleed. With the upcoming changes LC just gives us base condition duration for all conditions (not only scepter skills) so 5s -> 10s max.

Lingering Curses won’t go any longer over the 100%. So for scepter skills this actually is a nerf.

You can’t add over 100% duration on any condition no longer, so 150% or 170% fear duration is not possible sadly.

Who is yo say that a) it won’t work the same way as now and b) the duration cap won’t be changed since its no longer free from trait lines only on gear.

Sigmoid.7082:

Gexim.3289:

Lily.1935:

Cecilia.5179:

I’m actually really excited to try condi reaper. I assume the best trait options would be to run standard terrormancer in curses, Master of Terror and Dhuumfire in Soul Reaping (I really wish that Vital persistence + Path of Midnight was still adept), and Chill Damage in Reaper. The AoE Fear may seem a little weaker than the single-target Death Shroud fear, but this actually allows reaper to further pressure foes who are stealthed, as well as doubling as a stability for the heavy cc builds, like hammer warrior, who can potentially wreck a necromancer, as well as applying chill and chill damage due to reaper traits. Dhuumfire on reaper shroud auto is an amazing source of damage that turns reaper shroud into an amazing source of pressure, and Reaper Shroud might have just enough power damage to break the Diamond Skin eles who will become far more common when choosing earth means picking a grandmaster for them.

Yeah its going to be really exciting. Still the 100% condition duration is really good. You see that a 2 second? 1 second? I can’t tell with the way its worded. It makes a big difference. But you can run full into the fear duration and get 150% duration fear. You sacrifice the damage from terror, sure But thats a worth while trade off in my opinion because of the up time. Also, Lingering curse in the past didn’t count toward your total 100% possible duration. So having this with master of terror should give you a 150% before runes and sigils. Throw that in and your condi duration for whatever you choose could be quite impressive. A crazy idea might be to run Runes of the Necromancer and get 170% fear duration. Not the best suggestion but its still fun to think about. I think Runes of the Nightmare will still be the best option. But I like the idea of using fear to control your foe and not as a source of damage to have long periods of locked down foes sounds like a real option to me. Making it harder for them to defend against you sounds like it could be quite viable.

I’ve even thought about a crazy idea of running Lingering curse in a power build. Which I will test because I actually like the possibility of running a more fear control build.

As it is right now, Lingering Curses raises the base duration from scepter skills by around 33%. Blood Curse get 5s -> 7s base duration. After that we can add up to 100% duration. So that is a max 14s bleed. With the upcoming changes LC just gives us base condition duration for all conditions (not only scepter skills) so 5s -> 10s max.

Lingering Curses won’t go any longer over the 100%. So for scepter skills this actually is a nerf.

You can’t add over 100% duration on any condition no longer, so 150% or 170% fear duration is not possible sadly.

Who is yo say that a) it won’t work the same way as now and b) the duration cap won’t be changed since its no longer free from trait lines only on gear.

We’ll have to wait and see… But in the livestream LC was stated as: “While wielding a scepter your condition damage and outgoing condition duration is increased.” Since they want to get rid of traits that give stats that you don’t see on the hero equipment panel, this will just count toward general condition duration like as you go 6 into spite you get 30% increase. This is what they said they were gonna do since we lose those stats from going into the trait lines, they merged the loss into traits itself.

And for balance reasons I’m pretty sure they aren’t gonna remove that cap of 100%… Or people would start stacking up bleed duration to like 250%.

this will just count toward general condition duration like as you go 6 into spite you get 30% increase….

We’ll have to wait and see

Also keep in mind that going over 100% is still useful against people running -% incoming condis. For example if you have 120% and they are running a -40% you will have 80% when you apply your conditions. Although this mainly applies to WvW due to lemongrass melandru combo and for specific conditions from traits like dogged march.

Gexim.3289:

Lily.1935:

Cecilia.5179:

I’m actually really excited to try condi reaper. I assume the best trait options would be to run standard terrormancer in curses, Master of Terror and Dhuumfire in Soul Reaping (I really wish that Vital persistence + Path of Midnight was still adept), and Chill Damage in Reaper. The AoE Fear may seem a little weaker than the single-target Death Shroud fear, but this actually allows reaper to further pressure foes who are stealthed, as well as doubling as a stability for the heavy cc builds, like hammer warrior, who can potentially wreck a necromancer, as well as applying chill and chill damage due to reaper traits. Dhuumfire on reaper shroud auto is an amazing source of damage that turns reaper shroud into an amazing source of pressure, and Reaper Shroud might have just enough power damage to break the Diamond Skin eles who will become far more common when choosing earth means picking a grandmaster for them.

Yeah its going to be really exciting. Still the 100% condition duration is really good. You see that a 2 second? 1 second? I can’t tell with the way its worded. It makes a big difference. But you can run full into the fear duration and get 150% duration fear. You sacrifice the damage from terror, sure But thats a worth while trade off in my opinion because of the up time. Also, Lingering curse in the past didn’t count toward your total 100% possible duration. So having this with master of terror should give you a 150% before runes and sigils. Throw that in and your condi duration for whatever you choose could be quite impressive. A crazy idea might be to run Runes of the Necromancer and get 170% fear duration. Not the best suggestion but its still fun to think about. I think Runes of the Nightmare will still be the best option. But I like the idea of using fear to control your foe and not as a source of damage to have long periods of locked down foes sounds like a real option to me. Making it harder for them to defend against you sounds like it could be quite viable.

I’ve even thought about a crazy idea of running Lingering curse in a power build. Which I will test because I actually like the possibility of running a more fear control build.

As it is right now, Lingering Curses raises the base duration from scepter skills by around 33%. Blood Curse get 5s -> 7s base duration. After that we can add up to 100% duration. So that is a max 14s bleed. With the upcoming changes LC just gives us base condition duration for all conditions (not only scepter skills) so 5s -> 10s max.

Lingering Curses won’t go any longer over the 100%. So for scepter skills this actually is a nerf.

You can’t add over 100% duration on any condition no longer, so 150% or 170% fear duration is not possible sadly.

There is a major problem with your theory. If you take Lingering curse you’re automatically getting 120% bleed duration without any investment into gear. If you’re correct then that would mean that the 20% duration wouldn’t be added over the 100% which would be a really really bad design choice. At the moment the 33% from Lingering curse on scepter skills isn’t counted towards the 100%. So you can get 133% condition duration with scepter skills without a problem. I’m going to go out on a limb here and say that the 100% condition duration from Lingering curse will not count toward the total you can get. Or it will show up and fudge the normal rule a bit. Because otherwise you end up with redundancy in both curse and reaper. Which is a terrible design choice and arena net isn’t incompetent.

After learning how condi duration correctly works today in relation to increases and decreases i have more confidence in reapers ability to chill people as well as its application as a damage condition.

silentnight warrior.2714:

I think he said if your enemy have a skill that gives 5 sec chill and had food with + 40 % duration you will have 7 sec of chill. All the food / traits that gives less condition duration take effect on the 5 sec chill and not on the 7 sec chill.

So 5 sec – 40% less duration (lemon grass) = 3 sec chill – 15% (Melandru Rune) = 2.55 Sec chill – 33% (DM) = 1.7 sec chill (with the 2 seconds from + 40% duration it would be 3.7 sec chill).
So you will never be imune to movement conditions. To all other condition you should remove the -33% from DM.

If the Removal % stack together then 40% + 15% + 33% = 88%

5 Sec Chill – 88% = 0.6 Seconds + 2sec from + % food gives 2.6 seconds Chill

So unless its cleansed people will be chilled a whole lot more than i originally though.
I also didnt know :

While chilled, skill cooldowns additionally progress at a 66% slower rate; i.e. for every 3 seconds chilled, only 1 second of cooldown will have expired.

So as long as you can chill someone you triple their cooldowns!

Rune of Ice and Rune of Grenth are good shouts as well as Sigil of Ice or Sigil of chilling. Even rune of the elementalist for dhuumfire deathly chill builds. 50~70%+ chill duration will be easy.

Lily.1935:

Gexim.3289:

Lily.1935:

Cecilia.5179:

I’m actually really excited to try condi reaper. I assume the best trait options would be to run standard terrormancer in curses, Master of Terror and Dhuumfire in Soul Reaping (I really wish that Vital persistence + Path of Midnight was still adept), and Chill Damage in Reaper. The AoE Fear may seem a little weaker than the single-target Death Shroud fear, but this actually allows reaper to further pressure foes who are stealthed, as well as doubling as a stability for the heavy cc builds, like hammer warrior, who can potentially wreck a necromancer, as well as applying chill and chill damage due to reaper traits. Dhuumfire on reaper shroud auto is an amazing source of damage that turns reaper shroud into an amazing source of pressure, and Reaper Shroud might have just enough power damage to break the Diamond Skin eles who will become far more common when choosing earth means picking a grandmaster for them.

Yeah its going to be really exciting. Still the 100% condition duration is really good. You see that a 2 second? 1 second? I can’t tell with the way its worded. It makes a big difference. But you can run full into the fear duration and get 150% duration fear. You sacrifice the damage from terror, sure But thats a worth while trade off in my opinion because of the up time. Also, Lingering curse in the past didn’t count toward your total 100% possible duration. So having this with master of terror should give you a 150% before runes and sigils. Throw that in and your condi duration for whatever you choose could be quite impressive. A crazy idea might be to run Runes of the Necromancer and get 170% fear duration. Not the best suggestion but its still fun to think about. I think Runes of the Nightmare will still be the best option. But I like the idea of using fear to control your foe and not as a source of damage to have long periods of locked down foes sounds like a real option to me. Making it harder for them to defend against you sounds like it could be quite viable.

I’ve even thought about a crazy idea of running Lingering curse in a power build. Which I will test because I actually like the possibility of running a more fear control build.

As it is right now, Lingering Curses raises the base duration from scepter skills by around 33%. Blood Curse get 5s -> 7s base duration. After that we can add up to 100% duration. So that is a max 14s bleed. With the upcoming changes LC just gives us base condition duration for all conditions (not only scepter skills) so 5s -> 10s max.

Lingering Curses won’t go any longer over the 100%. So for scepter skills this actually is a nerf.

You can’t add over 100% duration on any condition no longer, so 150% or 170% fear duration is not possible sadly.

There is a major problem with your theory. If you take Lingering curse you’re automatically getting 120% bleed duration without any investment into gear. If you’re correct then that would mean that the 20% duration wouldn’t be added over the 100% which would be a really really bad design choice. At the moment the 33% from Lingering curse on scepter skills isn’t counted towards the 100%. So you can get 133% condition duration with scepter skills without a problem. I’m going to go out on a limb here and say that the 100% condition duration from Lingering curse will not count toward the total you can get. Or it will show up and fudge the normal rule a bit. Because otherwise you end up with redundancy in both curse and reaper. Which is a terrible design choice and arena net isn’t incompetent.

I hope they make it count outside the total max 100% so basically we could reach a max 200% while in scepter as you say. But how it is righr now, it raises base duration of the scepter skills and it going to give general condition duration it seem as the trait is worded. But I agree with you that if it does the 20% from the minor is already worthless so that would be bad design. I’m guessing they are gonna turn down the duration a bit. Maybe to 50% increase.

I don’t main necro so I won’t act like I know all about it, but here’s what I’ve theory crafted:
Dhuumfire, Parasitic Contagion, Deathly Chill
Vital Persistance, Path of Corruption, Chilling Force
Speed of Shadows OR Soul Marks, Chilling Darkness, Chilling Nova

I’m thinking, for utility, Well of Darkness//“Suffer”//? and for the Elite either “Chilled to the Bones” or Plague for tanky Chill-on-Blind action. Unsure of what’s best for heal.

I feel like the sustain will come from actively keeping in melee and chilling around you with AoE using Well of Darkness/Suffer/Nightfall/Chilling Nova and so on. Shroud won’t be up so constantly, but the Chills and Blinds will likely give some good sustain with each other. This is for PvP, so it’ll be an on-point fighter, thus being able to land these AoE’s and strikes against Chilled enemies for some Life Force. Note that Chilling Force is about “striking” an enemy, not necessarily using a skill, so Death Spiral on GS will generate 12 Might and 12% Life Force when hitting full effect against a Chilled foe, which’ll have a harder time running from it in the first place. Same with Plague: huge AoE Chilling in addition to minuscule ticks of physical damage meaning 20 seconds of Life Force generation. Once Shroud is up, Dhuumfire scythe is ready to cleave and act as the final push.

So I don’t feel like Life Force generation nor sustainability will be a problem in this build, taking into account the amount of chill and blinds. Axe or Staff can work as secondary weapon sets, as Axe has some fast attacks which can help build up Life Force. This isn’t including the 15% siphon of Parasitic Contagion, which’ll add more sustain on top of the Chill + Blind combination.

Is there something wrong with my logic here? Again, I don’t main Necro, so I may not be seeing something here which one wouldn’t know from just theory.