Guild Wars 2

Bug is still here…

Sagat.3285:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Are the corruption side effects that much of an issue, even with the trait?

• Consume conditions removes all conditions, and doesn’t put damaging conditions on you.
• BiP doesn’t hurt physical dps
• CPC doesn’t stop you from bunkering.
• Corrupt Boon is not damaged functionally.
• Epidemic doesn’t hurt condi dps.
• Plague damages you in ways you can’t feel.

The skills are more powerful than any similar skills in other professions, the corruption are sides effects to balance how powerful the skills are. And you can mitigate the side effects.

For great justice or BiP? Shield of avenger or CPC?

In PvE….where anything works….and the combat is lacking….

I don’t follow? Either you complain that its PvE and that anything works. Or you bring the skills into the other game modes and they are still more powerful but neither is meta.

Sure all of them except CPC can be ignored, though Plague suicides is a massive case-in-point for why corruptions are badly designed, but that’s still bad, self-harm skills SHOULDN’T have ignorable self-effects, they should be something you have to actively think about every time you cast the skill, with an appropriate power payoff.

And no, CPC is never ignorable. Necro bunkers heavily rely on offensive pressure, because they don’t bring the support of other bunkers. A Necromancer bunker not doing damage is going to lose. So a CPC-weakened Necro bunker will lose out to a spectral/reaper/MM/signet bunker which can all keep up high damage without neutering themselves, while still bunkering.

Bhawb.7408:

Sure all of them except CPC can be ignored, though Plague suicides is a massive case-in-point for why corruptions are badly designed, but that’s still bad, self-harm skills SHOULDN’T have ignorable self-effects, they should be something you have to actively think about every time you cast the skill, with an appropriate power payoff.

And no, CPC is never ignorable. Necro bunkers heavily rely on offensive pressure, because they don’t bring the support of other bunkers. A Necromancer bunker not doing damage is going to lose. So a CPC-weakened Necro bunker will lose out to a spectral/reaper/MM/signet bunker which can all keep up high damage without neutering themselves, while still bunkering.

They aren’t balancing around power builds it seems.

Daniel Handler.4816:

Sagat.3285:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Are the corruption side effects that much of an issue, even with the trait?

• Consume conditions removes all conditions, and doesn’t put damaging conditions on you.
• BiP doesn’t hurt physical dps
• CPC doesn’t stop you from bunkering.
• Corrupt Boon is not damaged functionally.
• Epidemic doesn’t hurt condi dps.
• Plague damages you in ways you can’t feel.

The skills are more powerful than any similar skills in other professions, the corruption are sides effects to balance how powerful the skills are. And you can mitigate the side effects.

For great justice or BiP? Shield of avenger or CPC?

In PvE….where anything works….and the combat is lacking….

I don’t follow? Either you complain that its PvE and that anything works. Or you bring the skills into the other game modes and they are still more powerful but neither is meta.

PvE also lacks boons and condition damage mobs making most of necro design useless there I’m happy you find that flaw benefiting to corruptions but it is still a flaw not taking advantage of the entire system. Try corruptions in PvP and partially WvW and you will see their true value. It’s not even that mobs don’t do damage it’s simply that there is no condition pressure from them.

Yes anything works in PvE.

Sagat.3285:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Sagat.3285:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Are the corruption side effects that much of an issue, even with the trait?

• Consume conditions removes all conditions, and doesn’t put damaging conditions on you.
• BiP doesn’t hurt physical dps
• CPC doesn’t stop you from bunkering.
• Corrupt Boon is not damaged functionally.
• Epidemic doesn’t hurt condi dps.
• Plague damages you in ways you can’t feel.

The skills are more powerful than any similar skills in other professions, the corruption are sides effects to balance how powerful the skills are. And you can mitigate the side effects.

For great justice or BiP? Shield of avenger or CPC?

In PvE….where anything works….and the combat is lacking….

I don’t follow? Either you complain that its PvE and that anything works. Or you bring the skills into the other game modes and they are still more powerful but neither is meta.

PvE also lacks boons and condition damage mobs making most of necro design useless there I’m happy you find that flaw benefiting to corruptions but it is still a flaw not taking advantage of the entire system. Try corruptions in PvP and partially WvW and you will see their true value. It’s not even that mobs don’t do damage it’s simply that there is no condition pressure from them.

Yes anything works in PvE.

….I don’t know whether you are for or against them at this point tbh.

Their true value in pvp is quite nice

Daniel Handler.4816:

Sagat.3285:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Sagat.3285:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Are the corruption side effects that much of an issue, even with the trait?

• Consume conditions removes all conditions, and doesn’t put damaging conditions on you.
• BiP doesn’t hurt physical dps
• CPC doesn’t stop you from bunkering.
• Corrupt Boon is not damaged functionally.
• Epidemic doesn’t hurt condi dps.
• Plague damages you in ways you can’t feel.

The skills are more powerful than any similar skills in other professions, the corruption are sides effects to balance how powerful the skills are. And you can mitigate the side effects.

For great justice or BiP? Shield of avenger or CPC?

In PvE….where anything works….and the combat is lacking….

I don’t follow? Either you complain that its PvE and that anything works. Or you bring the skills into the other game modes and they are still more powerful but neither is meta.

PvE also lacks boons and condition damage mobs making most of necro design useless there I’m happy you find that flaw benefiting to corruptions but it is still a flaw not taking advantage of the entire system. Try corruptions in PvP and partially WvW and you will see their true value. It’s not even that mobs don’t do damage it’s simply that there is no condition pressure from them.

Yes anything works in PvE.

….I don’t know whether you are for or against them at this point tbh.

Their true value in pvp is quite nice

Wich ones? Consume Conditions,Plague and Corrupt Boon have been in use since launch. Corrupt Boon partially fail due to higher boons uptime and Signet of Suffering, CPC is still held back by baseline weakness so….

I’m not saying get rid of the concept just don’t overrate it and make it actually useful. I just want MoC to apply the baseline condition in an AoE instead of adding additional ones this won’t affect your liking for their current state.

I agree that self-harming utility skills are bogus. Whatever novelty the corruption mechanic may have held once, it’s an unfair disadvantage in today’s game. There is NO bonus power.

Daniel Handler.4816:

They aren’t balancing around power builds it seems.

Condi Necro isn’t a thing right now, way too much removal spam. Even then I don’t see CPC being an option when you really want double stun breaks.

Cheby Shev.4671:

I agree that self-harming utility skills are bogus. Whatever novelty the corruption mechanic may have held once, it’s an unfair disadvantage in today’s game. There is NO bonus power.

Of course they have a disadvantage. They are used as balancing factors. Without the condi their cd shoots up. You can quite easily ignore the disadvantage though.

Daniel Handler.4816:

Cheby Shev.4671:

I agree that self-harming utility skills are bogus. Whatever novelty the corruption mechanic may have held once, it’s an unfair disadvantage in today’s game. There is NO bonus power.

Of course they have a disadvantage. They are used as balancing factors. Without the condi their cd shoots up. You can quite easily ignore the disadvantage though.

The wisdom is real

Daniel Handler.4816:

Cheby Shev.4671:

I agree that self-harming utility skills are bogus. Whatever novelty the corruption mechanic may have held once, it’s an unfair disadvantage in today’s game. There is NO bonus power.

Of course they have a disadvantage. They are used as balancing factors. Without the condi their cd shoots up. You can quite easily ignore the disadvantage though.

Really? Last time consume conditions got a condition added it got a cooldown increase. Just because MoC exists.

Tim.6450:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Cheby Shev.4671:

I agree that self-harming utility skills are bogus. Whatever novelty the corruption mechanic may have held once, it’s an unfair disadvantage in today’s game. There is NO bonus power.

Of course they have a disadvantage. They are used as balancing factors. Without the condi their cd shoots up. You can quite easily ignore the disadvantage though.

Really? Last time consume conditions got a condition added it got a cooldown increase. Just because MoC exists.

You do recall at this time that plague signet and Lyssa rune got reduced from all to 5. People were quite worried CC would be reduced to five as well. Compounding that fear was that signet of stamina was at base 45 seconds and it’s effect was arguably worse.

I would argue that the condis prevented CC from affecting only 5 conditions or having an insane cooldown like SoS.

Daniel Handler.4816:

You do recall at this time that plague signet and Lyssa rune got reduced from all to 5. People were quite worried CC would be reduced to five as well. Compounding that fear was that signet of stamina was at base 45 seconds and it’s effect was arguably worse.

I would argue that the condis prevented CC from affecting only 5 conditions or having an insane cooldown like SoS.

Those had nothing to do with each other. Plague Signet’s number of transfers went down because its CD was halved, Consume Conditions was nerfed because ANet did exactly what they said they wouldn’t do and had an entire patch focused on fixing, which was skills balanced around traits, not the other way around. They didn’t change Shelter or the Mesmer heal, but they nerfed Consume Conditions because it is now a corruption.

If it wasn’t a corruption, it wouldn’t have been nerfed.

Bhawb.7408:

Daniel Handler.4816:

You do recall at this time that plague signet and Lyssa rune got reduced from all to 5. People were quite worried CC would be reduced to five as well. Compounding that fear was that signet of stamina was at base 45 seconds and it’s effect was arguably worse.

I would argue that the condis prevented CC from affecting only 5 conditions or having an insane cooldown like SoS.

Those had nothing to do with each other. Plague Signet’s number of transfers went down because its CD was halved, Consume Conditions was nerfed because ANet did exactly what they said they wouldn’t do and had an entire patch focused on fixing, which was skills balanced around traits, not the other way around. They didn’t change Shelter or the Mesmer heal, but they nerfed Consume Conditions because it is now a corruption.

If it wasn’t a corruption, it wouldn’t have been nerfed.

Just like putrid mark went down and it cd wasnt touched. Just like Lyssa Runes were nerfed.

Necro was getting a buffed shrouded removal. The free signet transfer even thirty seconds. A buffed spiteful removal. They were going to nerf CC. They don’t allow full condi removals without a caveat anymore.

Daniel Handler.4816:

Bhawb.7408:

Daniel Handler.4816:

You do recall at this time that plague signet and Lyssa rune got reduced from all to 5. People were quite worried CC would be reduced to five as well. Compounding that fear was that signet of stamina was at base 45 seconds and it’s effect was arguably worse.

I would argue that the condis prevented CC from affecting only 5 conditions or having an insane cooldown like SoS.

Those had nothing to do with each other. Plague Signet’s number of transfers went down because its CD was halved, Consume Conditions was nerfed because ANet did exactly what they said they wouldn’t do and had an entire patch focused on fixing, which was skills balanced around traits, not the other way around. They didn’t change Shelter or the Mesmer heal, but they nerfed Consume Conditions because it is now a corruption.

If it wasn’t a corruption, it wouldn’t have been nerfed.

Just like putrid mark went down and it cd wasnt touched. Just like Lyssa Runes were nerfed.

Necro was getting a buffed shrouded removal. The free signet transfer even thirty seconds. A buffed spiteful removal. They were going to nerf CC. They don’t allow full condi removals without a caveat anymore.

Not really if MoC was 25% CD reduction CC would still be 25 sec CD they are trying to make a terrible trait looks less terrible. Again base conditions are fine it’s MoC that is pushing it.

Daniel Handler.4816:

Are the corruption side effects that much of an issue, even with the trait?

• Consume conditions removes all conditions, and doesn’t put damaging conditions on you.
• BiP doesn’t hurt physical dps
• CPC doesn’t stop you from bunkering.
• Corrupt Boon is not damaged functionally.
• Epidemic doesn’t hurt condi dps.
• Plague damages you in ways you can’t feel.

The skills are more powerful than any similar skills in other professions, the corruption are sides effects to balance how powerful the skills are. And you can mitigate the side effects.

For great justice or BiP? Shield of avenger or CPC?

I beg to differ.

Our corruptions are really potent, but frankly they are not in the order of magnitudes strong that they need such a downside. Especially not with MoC on top.
Personally I’m fine with the self bleed on some of these abilities. It’s mostly the other conditions that annoy me. Weakness on CPC and Epidemic. Cripple on CPC. Blind on our heal.

I mean, Consume conditions is really strong for example. But it comes with significant downsides already, like a really long cast time and a significant cooldown. Does it really need the vulnerability (+ blind) on top of that ?
Other classes also have plenty strong heals.

Mitigating the side effects is part of the issue. I basically need to use an extra utility skill, waste a weapon swap to staff, use my heal. JUST so I can use my “slightly stronger utility skill” without shooting myself in the foot.

Corruptions with self harm made great sense in GW1, because the game design was there to build around it. You had cleansers, you had healers, you had the ability to shift pressure, and hexes were FAR more flexible than the staple conditions we have now allowing for more intricate balance and more unique skills.
Corruptions with self harm in GW2 are just tacked on for the sake of nostalgia and symbolism and serve little purpose otherwise.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m a big sucker for lore and self harm makes good sense on a class like a necro. But then at least build something around it. Synergize with them through traits or something; make it so they are enhanced when we transfer them; make the abilities to such an extend where you have to decide whether you want to pay the price for the benefit of a great utility.

Sagat.3285:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Bhawb.7408:

Daniel Handler.4816:

You do recall at this time that plague signet and Lyssa rune got reduced from all to 5. People were quite worried CC would be reduced to five as well. Compounding that fear was that signet of stamina was at base 45 seconds and it’s effect was arguably worse.

I would argue that the condis prevented CC from affecting only 5 conditions or having an insane cooldown like SoS.

Those had nothing to do with each other. Plague Signet’s number of transfers went down because its CD was halved, Consume Conditions was nerfed because ANet did exactly what they said they wouldn’t do and had an entire patch focused on fixing, which was skills balanced around traits, not the other way around. They didn’t change Shelter or the Mesmer heal, but they nerfed Consume Conditions because it is now a corruption.

If it wasn’t a corruption, it wouldn’t have been nerfed.

Just like putrid mark went down and it cd wasnt touched. Just like Lyssa Runes were nerfed.

Necro was getting a buffed shrouded removal. The free signet transfer even thirty seconds. A buffed spiteful removal. They were going to nerf CC. They don’t allow full condi removals without a caveat anymore.

Not really if MoC was 25% CD reduction CC would still be 25 sec CD they are trying to make a terrible trait looks less terrible. Again base conditions are fine it’s MoC that is pushing it.

I respectfully disagree. They gutted every full removal you had except for the one in Lich Form and that is on a 120+ cooldown. They didn’t have to give CC a type. Yet every single skill in the game that removes all conditions has a base CD of 30 or higher.

If CPC changes to well, it will have it’s CD increased.
I’m perfectly fine it is right now.
And self-weakness is quickly transferred with dagger4 to boss.
Add dagger5 for more weakness uptime.

Right now CC and CPC are our only good corruptions.
You should think how to make other corruptions worth taking instead of fixing what already works great.

Limenox.8320:

If CPC changes to well, it will have it’s CD increased.
I’m perfectly fine it is right now.
And self-weakness is quickly transferred with dagger4 to boss.
Add dagger5 for more weakness uptime.

Right now CC and CPC are our only good corruptions.
You should think how to make other corruptions worth taking instead of fixing what already works great.

The others are just very clutch. BiP works well with MM. Epidemic will be extremely good with burn reaper. And corrupt boon has always been good in pvp, its just being overshadowed by traited signets.

BiP is complete garbage with MM

Corrosive Poison Cloud: Fixed an issue that allowed this ability to block unblockable attacks.

Well so much for CPC being unique :P
Saw this one coming though.

corruptions are obviously designed to be used in tandem with condition transfer, you burst corruption so that you can burst transfer. IMO the only reason that people are viewing CPC so negatively is that they tried to slot it into non-corruption builds and got annoyed with it.

You can also use it to create boons using Well of Power (or in theory something like Runes of Lyssa, tho i havent tried that)

If you build for it you can get a ridiculous amount of condition transference, it’s not like you need to be conservative with them in that case. I’ve messed around with support builds oriented around Plague Signet, but I hate the scepter animations.