Guild Wars 2

Eles get:

•Earth XI – Diamond Skin. This trait has been redesigned. Conditions cannot be applied to you when your health is above the threshold. 90%.

That can hurt us…

grandmaster trait though… just means condi builds need some damage to break through that skin (rabid and dire (especially dire))

WTF really? you do know that in organised WvW raids ranged is constantly on max hp? so they are virtually imuun to conditions lol

The Eles I know never go 30pts in Earth tho, Arcana and Water and even Air but Earth nah they dont. Ofc this Anet way of tempting ppl to go full in Earth trait.

Sandra Martino.3870:

WTF really? you do know that in organised WvW raids ranged is constantly on max hp? so they are virtually imuun to conditions lol

then organise and take their backline down to <90%?… and its a GM trait…

Necromancer

Spam Marks

already under 90% healt under a few sec also some condis already aplied

Well, I’m sure that with that, Eles will replace necros on PvP teams, given that necros can’t finish off engineers and won’t realistically be able to touch Eles without help. Sure, you could run power necro, but then why isn’t the team bringing a thief/warrior?

When will they learn that outright condition immunity is just a bad idea? I like the Guardian’s Purging Flames skill or the Warrior’s Dogged March trait: it reduces the effectiveness of conditions without negating them outright.

a) Its GM
b) Do you know how tiny a eles hp pool is, a aa or two with your scepter 3 will probably chip a ele to under 90%
c) If they want to eles can still be a living aoe condition immunity, not really a big deal by comparison to what warriors and engie have right now.

Not a huge deal. No one in PvP stays above 90% health reliably. It’ll just give them a little chance in the beginning of the fight and a few times in the middle. 10% HP of most Eles is a single Putrid Mark (hey look, a use for it again, yay!).

Omg, I came here to see if this thread had been made!

After no deliberation what-so-ever, I decided I’m gonna go 30 points into Earth JUST to rustle your little re-animating jimmies. Too long have I been a legged lootbag for a Necromancer. Perhaps now you’ll have to use a different type of gear instead of doing full dire? I relish the thought that now you’ll be running from me, helpless to do anything because you have no power.

Come to think of it…I might also go 20 points into Fire Magic so I can have a free Cleansing Fire while running the utility as well as running Rock Solid so I can have Stability when I use my Ether Renewal. (Not that it’ll matter cause you can’t use fear on me once I’m over 90%)

I mean, I might feel bad for you, but you’re the ones complain about the class with the lowest health pool being immune to your conditions for what, the intial 1500 direct damage you will try to drop on us. Oh…I might also run full Clerics and Signet of Restoration so you have no chance in hell of getting me below 90%!

Time to find someone else to faceroll, Necros. Oh, and feel free to still run Spite Signet, you’re gonna need the power.

PEACEOUT! WOO!

SonOfKrypton.4357:

Omg, I came here to see if this thread had been made!

After no deliberation what-so-ever, I decided I’m gonna go 30 points into Earth JUST to rustle your little re-animating jimmies. Too long have I been a legged lootbag for a Necromancer. Perhaps now you’ll have to use a different type of gear instead of doing full dire? I relish the thought that now you’ll be running from me, helpless to do anything because you have no power.

Come to think of it…I might also go 20 points into Fire Magic so I can have a free Cleansing Fire while running the utility as well as running Rock Solid so I can have Stability when I use my Ether Renewal. (Not that it’ll matter cause you can’t use fear on me once I’m over 90%)

I mean, I might feel bad for you, but you’re the ones complain about the class with the lowest health pool being immune to your conditions for what, the intial 1500 direct damage you will try to drop on us. Oh…I might also run full Clerics and Signet of Restoration so you have no chance in hell of getting me below 90%!

Time to find someone else to faceroll, Necros. Oh, and feel free to still run Spite Signet, you’re gonna need the power.

PEACEOUT! WOO!

I cried a little.

This trait really only makes 0/0/30/20/20 eles difficult for condition necros as they will have the heals to keep bouncing back above 90%, most of which cure conditions at the same time.

And the “reanimating” necros actually don’t give a crap about this trait because minions are all about direct damage.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

And the “reanimating” necros actually don’t give a crap about this trait because minions are all about direct damage.

Literally one Death Nova will bring an ele below 90%, lol.

shimmerless.4560:

Necs freaking out about this is just hilarious to me. You do realize there’s some white numbers on your skills where your real damage is, or would be if you built for it? And these are Eles we’re talking about… even one or two of your limp-wristed Marks or Scepter autos’ll bring them under 90.

We aren’t freaking out. Staff and scepter auto attack are really bad. Worst in the game bad.

Say goodbye to using blood is power near the start of a fight.

How about this scenario? Ele ports in with ride the lightning knocking us own and starts his kill combo. Necromancer previously could hit death shroud #3 to try and escape that combo, but now that move is unavailable, because the elementalists has a passive immunity.

Nice, I can’t wait to troll all the diamond skin users in wvwvw, I’m tired of trolling thieves.

This will more likely work out like the engineer condition trait, and only block conditions duration at the base duration and not block the conditions that have any condition duration bonuses. I think this trait is weak and will mean nothing.

nekretaal.6485:

shimmerless.4560:

Necs freaking out about this is just hilarious to me. You do realize there’s some white numbers on your skills where your real damage is, or would be if you built for it? And these are Eles we’re talking about… even one or two of your limp-wristed Marks or Scepter autos’ll bring them under 90.

We aren’t freaking out. Staff and scepter auto attack are really bad. Worst in the game bad.

Say goodbye to using blood is power near the start of a fight.

How about this scenario? Ele ports in with ride the lightning knocking us own and starts his kill combo. Necromancer previously could hit death shroud #3 to try and escape that combo, but now that move is unavailable, because the elementalists has a passive immunity.

scepter auto attack is far from bad (staff however…)

ports in? RTL is a charge; and its extremely obvious (if you get RTL’d>updrafted you need better reflexes)

d/d ele has no ‘kill combo’, it has a few hard~ish hitting moves that are predictable (and even if you do kitten and get hit by RTL>updraft -lol- then you can sponge the -likely- burning speed thats incoming using DS)

I think it’ll make fights against eles harder, but nowhere near as hard as they were before the Great Cantrip Nerfs of 2012, when they could clear 2 condis just by switching to water, another 1 by dodging, another one with dagger 5, and another one with each cantrip they popped (and that’s before even touchiung their healing skill!) :p

Like people have said, even a pretty highly defensive ele doesn’t have that much HP, and 10% of even a high HP ele is still really low.

shimmerless.4560:

Clearly an autoattack whose bleed application has had to be nerfed twice…

Well, that just proves how much you know…

Arvid.3829:

shimmerless.4560:

Clearly an autoattack whose bleed application has had to be nerfed twice…

Well, that just proves how much you know…

Considering Scepter auto has never been nerfed…

Its been buffed, actually.

Switch to Deathshroud, rip 10% of their face off, return to normal mode and commence condition pwnage?

There isn’t a necromancer in the game who doesn’t have direct damage skills. It’s built into the class.

The devs looked like they agreed to lower the 90% to 85% for the patch and may consider 80% as per the JP quote below. I am at a real loss as to what role they want the necro to play…this is the “death-of-a-thousand-cuts”.

“Right now I am thinking 85% on diamond skin as high health eles could break this at 80% imo.

Also thinking 25% cooldown on the alacrity traits so we can move slowly. If we go 30% and have to nerf after that I would not be happy. The diamond skin thing is possible for dec 10th. The cooldown thing on alacrity traits is more likely to be the following patch because it has a lot of testing requirements that concern me.

Jon"

It also amazes me that other classes actually have dialog on their abilities and direction ….compare that to their communication on the necro!!!

I dunno about you but life transfer and Flesh Golem’s attacks should be enough to bypass it. Then again thief/warrior partners could take care of this “problematic” trait for us.

Let’s wait and see what the patch would bring

shimmerless.4560:

nekretaal.6485:

shimmerless.4560:

Necs freaking out about this is just hilarious to me. You do realize there’s some white numbers on your skills where your real damage is, or would be if you built for it? And these are Eles we’re talking about… even one or two of your limp-wristed Marks or Scepter autos’ll bring them under 90.

We aren’t freaking out. Staff and scepter auto attack are really bad. Worst in the game bad.

Say goodbye to using blood is power near the start of a fight.

How about this scenario? Ele ports in with ride the lightning knocking us own and starts his kill combo. Necromancer previously could hit death shroud #3 to try and escape that combo, but now that move is unavailable, because the elementalists has a passive immunity.

Clearly an autoattack whose bleed application has had to be nerfed twice due to the unrelenting pressure it can put on people is one of the worst in the game. But yes, poor condimancer, I sympathize with your fevered nightmares of kamikaze RtL Eles. Perhaps if less people were running around in Rabid/Dire gear and killing players en masse from 1200 range, we wouldn’t be in this Diamond Skin situation in the first place now, would we.

The sheer irony of Necs who abused the whole Fear-works-as-a-condi thing is utterly delicious, by the way. The ironing is delicious!!

i·ro·ny
1 [ahy-ruh-nee, ahy-er-] Show IPA
noun, plural i·ro·nies.
1.
the use of words to convey a meaning that is the opposite of its literal meaning: the irony of her reply, “How nice!” when I said I had to work all weekend.
2.
Literature.
a.
a technique of indicating, as through character or plot development, an intention or attitude opposite to that which is actually or ostensibly stated.
b.
(especially in contemporary writing) a manner of organizing a work so as to give full expression to contradictory or complementary impulses, attitudes, etc., especially as a means of indicating detachment from a subject, theme, or emotion.
3.
Socratic irony.
4.
dramatic irony.
5.
an outcome of events contrary to what was, or might have been, expected.

Not irony.

If anyone loses to an ele due to this trait, you were going to lose anyway. It really shouldn’t be on anyone’s radar.

Roe.3679:

If anyone loses to an ele due to this trait, you were going to lose anyway. It really shouldn’t be on anyone’s radar.

I wouldn’t say that. A dire or rabid necro direct damage is exceedingly low. If you have ever tried to kill an engy with the sister trait who is under 25 percent with no current conditions on you would understand. We lose access to three interrupts as well in that range.

I don’t mind though. It encourages hybrid builds which is better than the current state of affairs. I just wish our hybrid builds had better traits and options

Rennoko.5731:

Roe.3679:

If anyone loses to an ele due to this trait, you were going to lose anyway. It really shouldn’t be on anyone’s radar.

I wouldn’t say that. A dire or rabid necro direct damage is exceedingly low. If you have ever tried to kill an engy with the sister trait who is under 25 percent with no current conditions on you would understand. We lose access to three interrupts as well in that range.

I don’t mind though. It encourages hybrid builds which is better than the current state of affairs. I just wish our hybrid builds had better traits and options

A eles HP is so low, a scpeter 3 will take it to under 90%, maybe add a life blast or 2 secepter autos, but seriously not a trait to worry about.

Scepter 3 with no condi on the target in dire and rabid is laughable weak. Maybe in conjunction with some life blasts, but those are exceedingly weak as well on those builds , especially dire. Keep in mind the ele isn’t standing still, he is stunning and dodging and keeping regen up to prevent you from getting him down below that mark.

I expect the mark to be moved to 80. And that build will completely shutdown dire necros. Frankly that is fine as that build needed more counters. I just don’t like that it is a super hard counter vs. a soft counter.

Dire was too strong though, so either way it is an ok move.

shimmerless.4560:

Necs freaking out about this is just hilarious to me. You do realize there’s some white numbers on your skills where your real damage is, or would be if you built for it? And these are Eles we’re talking about… even one or two of your limp-wristed Marks or Scepter autos’ll bring them under 90.

Limp-wristed ? Hey this staff is heavy you know.

Rennoko.5731:

Scepter 3 with no condi on the target in dire and rabid is laughable weak. Maybe in conjunction with some life blasts, but those are exceedingly weak as well on those builds , especially dire. Keep in mind the ele isn’t standing still, he is stunning and dodging and keeping regen up to prevent you from getting him down below that mark.

I expect the mark to be moved to 80. And that build will completely shutdown dire necros. Frankly that is fine as that build needed more counters. I just don’t like that it is a super hard counter vs. a soft counter.

Dire was too strong though, so either way it is an ok move.

Use life blast. It still does 1k crits in full dire if you are within 600. Putrid mark hits pretty hard, too.

Like I said, if you can’t figure out how to get an ele to 90% HP, you deserve to lose, as it’s hardly an OP trait; 75% would be a different story. Most eles don’t have more than 15k HP though, so it only takes 1500 direct damage to make it happen.

Oldbugga.7029:

It also amazes me that other classes actually have dialog on their abilities and direction ….compare that to their communication on the necro!!!

Just chill. He got to Engineers after that and still has over a month to make the rounds to all classes. There’s six still waiting, it’s not like Necros got singled out.

Nike.2631:

Oldbugga.7029:

It also amazes me that other classes actually have dialog on their abilities and direction ….compare that to their communication on the necro!!!

Just chill. He got to Engineers after that and still has over a month to make the rounds to all classes. There’s six still waiting, it’s not like Necros got singled out.

Four. He got to Guardians and Mesmers.

Given he’s going alphabetical order, we’re next.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Four. He got to Guardians and Mesmers.

Given he’s going alphabetical order, we’re next.

I realized I’d seen the little guards chat right after I posted. I hadn’t noticed the alphabetical progression.

Nice.

This is just the beginning imo. I expect to see a lot more skills/traits like this because I don’t feel like anet thought conditions through properly when they made this game (hence why horrible traits like this don’t seem like a half bad idea) and it’s really showing with the amount of difficulty they’re having balancing them.

Even my siphoning necromancer (who has little trouble against condition classes) fails to make me any more comfortable fighting classes that use conditions.

If you can’t drop an engy with automated response running at 1k-5k health immune to everything don’t expect to get a competent ele down 90% by yourself.

here’s how i see this trait(as a power necro)
imagine if x class was immune to direct damage above 90% health, and the only way to get it down was with conditions. i would just be sitting there because my condition damage is absolute crap. IMO ele just has way too much survivability. it combines the escapes of mesmer(minus stealth) with the condi cleansing of guardian.

HAHA … ele is going to destroy all you necros!!! enjoy your condis while they last!!! going full clerics and this trait ….. gg

Fishbones.6914:

HAHA … ele is going to destroy all you necros!!! enjoy your condis while they last!!! going full clerics and this trait ….. gg

o.0… you’re going to destroy ‘all’ necros (including power, minion master and hybrid builds)?… with a cleric build? gl with that.

I cannot believe the fact that everyone says the trait is not a problem, as if the fight would be over from there on. When it takes 2-3 autoattacks to get an ele below 90% he has 10 different ways to heal up again. So we autoattack some more, his regen abilities continue to make him hover over 90% because when we rely on conditions, our autoattacks wont pressure him.

So yes, we stand there autoattacking an ele for 15 seconds before his regen abilities are done and we sit at 20% hp because ele was pumping out 3k crits.

And arenanet calls this balance… if eles get imunity to condi`s, i demand imunity to direct damage on 90% hp!

Sandra Martino.3870:

if eles get imunity to condi`s, i demand imunity to direct damage on 90% hp!

stupid suggestion (whether sarcastic or not)

all builds do direct damage (most condi builds do less because they’re tanky)

not all builds (specifically; not all weapons) do condi damage

Linguistically Inept.6583:

Fishbones.6914:

HAHA … ele is going to destroy all you necros!!! enjoy your condis while they last!!! going full clerics and this trait ….. gg

o.0… you’re going to destroy ‘all’ necros (including power, minion master and hybrid builds)?… with a cleric build? gl with that.

lol power build? minion master? your reign is over … re-enter the Elementalist master race

I think this would be properly balanced if it was something like; immune to condition damage when health is above ~80-90%. This would force Necros to open with physical damage, but at the same time not completely shut down all non-damaging debuffs we have. Immune to all condition effects just seems excessive considering we do not have self-buffs to compensate for locked out debuffs.

Diamond Skin nullifies Reaper’s Protection (a trait they hope people use more) against the Ele’s most popular opening combo. For the record, I have mained an Ele for hundreds of more hours than Necro.

Tvvat.8401:

I think this would be properly balanced if it was something like; immune to condition damage when health is above ~80-90%. This would force Necros to open with physical damage, but at the same time not completely shut down all non-damaging debuffs we have. Immune to all condition effects just seems excessive considering we do not have self-buffs to compensate for locked out debuffs.

that would be a nice idea (and if the same mechanic is used for warr berserker stance would help trim down warrs… but would be too much with the other proposed warr changes)

It would be properly balanced if it wasnt CONDITION IMMUNITY but damage condition immunity. Applied in a way that not prevents application of the conditions but grants immunity to the damage. So if a necro opens up with 6 bleeds stacks, poison and chill for instance the conditions still get applied and the soft cc effect still work but ele simply doesnt receive damage ticks from the bleed and poison.

edit: TVVAT beat me to it

Found myself running away from an ELe in WvW today. Necromancer is the slowest class in the game so I have to drop cripple, chill, and fear marks, or spectral wall to try to get away. And this only works if I have a big enough head start.

God Necromancer is so slow.

I guess I wolnt be able to run away from a chasing Zerg anymore. I’ll just die.

Diamond skin is a terrible trait. It kills necromancer enough to knock Necromancer’s out of the meta… It counters everything we have. Here we are with no defenses and aupposed to defnd ourselves with weakness and chills that dont work. However, at the same time the trait is not good enough o be worth taking against any other class. Control condition classes like warrior and engineer will blow through the 90% cap.

So it just screws necros and doesn’t actually help elementalists.

Ahah, come here just too see!

Do you necro feel what “FEAR” is ? XD
It’s so funny to see half necro beiing afraid of something even more when there is no reason XD
So thank you to this half-unbrained population of necro for this topic, very funny for elementalist ^^

And gl gl to others nerco wich probably play this class because they love it and not because its currently OP, you deserve it!

(ele posting if you did’nt understand :p)

Mattmatt.4962:

Ahah, come here just too see!

Do you necro feel what “FEAR” is ? XD
It’s so funny to see half necro beiing afraid of something even more when there is no reason XD
So thank you to this half-unbrained population of necro for this topic, very funny for elementalist ^^

And gl gl to others nerco wich probably play this class because they love it and not because its currently OP, you deserve it!

(ele posting if you did’nt understand :p)

So, when necros only method of stopping a combo is a Fear that can’t affect you, how exactly is that balanced?

This trait is just badly designed. It counters condition necros hard, but it ONLY counters condition necros.

GUYS… What if… We had a grandmaster trait.. that GAVE US STABILITY WHILE ABOVE 90% HP!?!?!?!?

no no that would be insanity. XD

kitten this game