Guild Wars 2

Hi, I’ve open this topic to discuss about similar skills beetween Necromancer & others classes.

First, don’t forget that we are a Light Armor class : we’re supposed to be weaker in term of tanking, but a higher damage than Medium/Heavy armor classes.

I start with Blood Is Power :

With the update, there is an amazing (in my opinion) changment of it : : This skill now applies 8 stacks of might for 8 seconds to nearby allies.

I will compare it to the famous Guardian’s staff’s skill Enpower

• Stacks of Might : 8 (for BiP) against 12 (for Enpower).
  Guardian is supposed to be the best support, so why not.

• Cooldown : 30secs (20 under traits – 33%) against 20 (16 under traits – 20%)
  Here, it’s a comparison beetween a weapon’s skill and an utility’s skill so it seems pretty fair to me.

• Second effect : Long Duration of Bleed (2stacks for 30s) against Heal (1500 + 1%)
  Well, here to me there’s a problem. Corruption’s skill are supposed to feel like “Overpowered” but you sacrifice something. Actually, long duration of bleed is useless in the actual meta : clean conditions are everywhere.

Conclusion : As I said, Corruption should feel like “overpowered” skill but with a really hurtful backfire. The CD is “okay” if we agree that it’s an utility skill. But both (Stack of Might) and Second Effect (Long Duration of Bleed) are too weak.

Solution ? I propose to increase the stack of might to 10 (like before), in AoE, and also, to change the Long Duration Bleed (2stacks for 30s) into High and short Duration of Bleed (maybe 10-15stacks for 5s).

Thanks for discuss with me about this comparison, and feel free to bring comparison with other Classes, so we can work together to a better Necromancer

Blood is Power is PvE utility anyway. Now, with increased condi cap, it will be much better. Though 10 stacks for 10s or 8 stacks for 12-14s of might would be more appealing.

It will be overwriting longer durations if you have mightstacker nearby.

15 stacks of bleed? that would be balanced if u would apply 15 stacks of bleed to yourself and also necro loses all condi removes and condi transfers they have. dont get me wrong youre right about the duration vs intensity but dude...15 stacks

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/PvP-landscape-Upheaval-Rise-of-the-Mesmers/first#post5183292

I did a PvP ranking here. we could also compare class ranking changes in PvP after the patch hits

Goldenrevolver.4371:

15 stacks of bleed? that would be balanced if u would apply 15 stacks of bleed to yourself and also necro loses all condi removes and condi transfers they have. dont get me wrong youre right about the duration vs intensity but dude…15 stacks

Don’t forget that this is strong :/ (yeah Warrior always on the top of everything xD). That is also a pierce arrow.

My meaning was a really high burst of Condition Damage. Maybe 15 is way too much (lol), but 10 would have been nice. But the might stack can be okay if they balance more the second effect, that actually is really useless xDD

i think making the live versions might affect allies would be enough. i think there is no need to buff or nerf the bleeds as our weapon do enough bleeding. it shouldnt be the main reason for taking this utility (as it is now). other classes can deal more bleeds anyways. were not the kings and queens of conditions and putting everything onto one thing...we saw what happned to dhuumfire and signet of spite

Goldenrevolver.4371:

i think making the live versions might affect allies would be enough. i think there is no need to buff or nerf the bleeds as our weapon do enough bleeding. it shouldnt be the main reason for taking this utility (as it is now). other classes can deal more bleeds anyways. were not the kings and queens of conditions and putting everything onto one thing…we saw what happned to dhuumfire and signet of spite

Yup, I agree about your stack.

But in my mind, if you look back to GW1, you had really powerfull skills, but requiere a BIG sacrifice. For exemple, Blood Is Power requiered 33% of your Max Health.

So, it would have been nice a similar work into Corruption – not necessary sacrificing health xD.
But anyway, I am sure there is better Game Designer for that option, and I hope they will try to balance it.

We actually discussed Sacrafices along with corruptions not that long ago.

For health sacrafices especially, it would’ve been the best if we got Elite Specialization with this theme in the future. Current Necro builds couldn’t play with huge health losses effectively.

neilug hyuga.5634:

Goldenrevolver.4371:

i think making the live versions might affect allies would be enough. i think there is no need to buff or nerf the bleeds as our weapon do enough bleeding. it shouldnt be the main reason for taking this utility (as it is now). other classes can deal more bleeds anyways. were not the kings and queens of conditions and putting everything onto one thing…we saw what happned to dhuumfire and signet of spite

Yup, I agree about your stack.

But in my mind, if you look back to GW1, you had really powerfull skills, but requiere a BIG sacrifice. For exemple, Blood Is Power requiered 33% of your Max Health.

So, it would have been nice a similar work into Corruption – not necessary sacrificing health xD.
But anyway, I am sure there is better Game Designer for that option, and I hope they will try to balance it.

While I would like to see the health sacrifice mechanic come back to necro and appreciate that the corruption skill type is attempting to keep that flavor, large health sacrifices worked in GW1 as you would always have a monk or other healer with you who could undo your sacrifice with a single spell. Current GW2 mechanics (and necromancer in particular) simply don’t have strong enough healing to make large health sacrifices practical.

If you really want to make yourself feel bad, compare Axe 2 or Dagger 3 to other profession’s skills. Both of them are objectively worse than every comparable skill, and yet here we are.

Throw in Corrupt Boon which is the offensive version of Guardian’s Contemplation of Purity.

Corrupt Boon – 1/2 sec Cast time, Convert 5 boons into Conditions. – 40 Second CD
Self-Applies Poison – With the new trait Cooldown could be lowered to 27-ish seconds but we’d get a 2nd condition applied to us. The skill is unblockable. However it can be dodged or negated with invulnerability or blinds.

Vs.

Contemplation of Purity – Converts ALL Conditions into Boons; is a stun-breaker. Cooldown 60 seconds. With Traits which meditation guardian’s obviously take the cooldown can be lowered to 48 seconds and it can be made to heal for 2k.

I’m not sure about you guys but if corruptions are supposed to be these strong utility skills that warrant some drawbacks for their uses, how come there are similar skills that are even stronger without any sort of drawback. On top of the fact that now there will be new conditions/boons added and guardians will be able to convert all of them while necros still get to only move around 5.

If Guardians are the masters of boons and ally support how come Necros fall short of the masters of conditions and enemy control?

Genesis.7693:

Throw in Corrupt Boon which is the offensive version of Guardian’s Contemplation of Purity.

Corrupt Boon – 1/2 sec Cast time, Convert 5 boons into Conditions. – 40 Second CD
Self-Applies Poison – With the new trait Cooldown could be lowered to 27-ish seconds but we’d get a 2nd condition applied to us. The skill is unblockable. However it can be dodged or negated with invulnerability or blinds.

Vs.

Contemplation of Purity – Converts ALL Conditions into Boons; is a stun-breaker. Cooldown 60 seconds. With Traits which meditation guardian’s obviously take the cooldown can be lowered to 48 seconds and it can be made to heal for 2k.

I’m not sure about you guys but if corruptions are supposed to be these strong utility skills that warrant some drawbacks for their uses, how come there are similar skills that are even stronger without any sort of drawback. On top of the fact that now there will be new conditions/boons added and guardians will be able to convert all of them while necros still get to only move around 5.

If Guardians are the masters of boons and ally support how come Necros fall short of the masters of conditions and enemy control?

We are not an anet supported class. We are an afterthought. No reason for us really.

I don’t think the skills choices for the comparison are good a weapon skill ( a channeled one at that) compared to a utility might be better to compare it to ‘For Great Justice’ instead. But in theory it would be best if the profession and their aspects could be balanced without the direct need of comparisons.

Bhawb.7408:

If you really want to make yourself feel bad, compare Axe 2 or Dagger 3 to other profession’s skills. Both of them are objectively worse than every comparable skill, and yet here we are.

Dagger 3? A ranged, non projectile immobilize on a high damage melee weapon with a longer duration than any other immobilize weapon skill in the game? How is that objectively worse?

And as for BiP vs. Empower, they’re not really valid to compare. Empower locks you into using staff, which, aside from that one ability, is pretty lousy at everything. BiP is a utility, and can be paired with whatever high damage weapon you want. Empower also has a very long and easily interrupted cast time, while BiP has a 0.75 second cast.

Captain Unusual.9163:

Dagger 3? A ranged, non projectile immobilize on a high damage melee weapon with a longer duration than any other immobilize weapon skill in the game? How is that objectively worse?

Dark Pact is 3s of immobilize on 25s CD.

Pin Down is the exact same immobilize on the same CD, that pierces, inflicts heavy bleeds, is a projectile finisher, and is nearly double the range.

Now sure, it is a 1s longer immobilize. Only for that it does nothing else with a longer CD and/or less range, no finisher, and less effects. Magnetic Grasp is an unblockable finisher on 12s CD that can also leap at 900 range, Shockwave is a line at double the range that is also a finisher, Chains of Light applies Vuln and has a shorter CD, Zealot’s Embrace is lower CD and a line Immobilize.

So yes, it is literally objectively worse than Pin Down, and gets a whole 1s of single target immobilize while losing out on a lot of what other immobilizes get. I’m not saying it needs a massive buff, but it is weak.