Guild Wars 2

I realize this is the necromancer forum and I’m asking a “loaded” question, but I’m just very curious.

From a PVE Standpoint – I haven’t tried PVP yet as I just like to get a feel for a class a bit before I dive into PVP.

I ask because I’ve been playing the class a bit up to a semi low level of 25ish and though necro seems insanely powerful in PVE, it seems I spend most of my time casting ground target spells. I run scepter/ dagger or focus – Staff. And plowing through groups of mobs or even a veteran / couple of mobs is a breeze. I feel powerful. I’m just worried of getting bored casting ground target spells most of the time.

Does axe/focus – warhorn get more powerful? The combo just feels a bit weak to me so far at 25. Also I’ve tried Dagger/ Dagger, but after having a guardian, warrior, thief, and melee ranger I really want to do some “Finger wiggling” and cast some spells now instead of melee.

Again I want to emphasize that this is from a PVE perspective of feeling powerful. In no way am I talking about PVP – or hinting at all for any sort of nerf in PVP. I also realize that necros are powerful in PVE World events, but lacking a bit in dungeons (from what I get from lurking forums here).

Thanks for your time!

Funny how i feel very weak in pve on my necro. I enjoy the class but the damage is just not good enough for the lack of useful utility we provide.

Weird? I’m just talking about open world pve for now. Hearts, DE’s and Vets. Haven’t attempted a champ yet. Maybe you are speaking of dungeons?

I guess I got my question offtrack talking about how powerful I feel playing my necromancer. I shared that feeling because I do enjoy playing him, just worried that it would get boring ground targeting so much.

Solo pve in open world has been an absolute breeze even against things 3 or so levels above me using scepter/focus or dagger – staff. Groups just melt and I usually finish with 100 % life.

Kyotee.7851:

Weird? I’m just talking about open world pve for now. Hearts, DE’s and Vets. Haven’t attempted a champ yet. Maybe you are speaking of dungeons?

I guess I got my question offtrack talking about how powerful I feel playing my necromancer. I shared that feeling because I do enjoy playing him, just worried that it would get boring ground targeting so much.

Solo pve in open world has been an absolute breeze even against things 3 or so levels above me using scepter/focus or dagger – staff. Groups just melt and I usually finish with 100 % life.

Yeah solo pve is kitten easy with a necro. I was referring more to dungeons. But the point still stands. Warrior is way stronger in both solo pve and dungeons. Same with guardian. I just get a bit bored not being able to hit even close to as hard as the other classes i play. I like seeing big numbers on my screen!

I totally understand Spoj. =) I didn’t mean to get the thread off track at all. Thanks so much for your replies, and I have no doubt at all you know much more about this class than I do.

Have a good day!

I think you’ll find level 80 PVE more interesting (i.e., challenging) than your current level content. Mostly I just have fun getting myself into trouble by wading into many more mobs than I should, multiple vets, champions, etc. I agree with spoj, we just don’t hit nearly as hard as other classes, but then again, it seems that would make it all the more boring.

As for axe, no, it doesn’t get much better. Axe Training grandmaster trait helps, but I don’t care for axe’s weak #1 skill and the 600 range. On the other hand, Nemesis just posted a video about a huge Ghastly Claws dmg number. But in general PVE, I find axe tedious, clumsy and unsatisfying.

Having played both warrior and necro to lvl 80 i can say that no necro is not a breeze in pve all pve is pretty much easy anyway and warrior does it faster safer even against vets champions etc.

AOE is better on necro ?, yeah go make a warrior with GS and longbow and come say that again.

Also the cast time on necro is annoying like crazy if you know that all other classes have ½ sec cast time and necro is usely 3/4 or 1sec, aoe with epidemic is SLOWWW and require alot of setup + 1sec cast epidemic while on my warrior things just go poof their death.

It gets a lot more exciting PvE when you hit Orr. There will be running, screaming, things covered in blood. Yes. Much more exciting.

wiazabi.2549:

Having played both warrior and necro to lvl 80 i can say that no necro is not a breeze in pve all pve is pretty much easy anyway and warrior does it faster safer even against vets champions etc.

AOE is better on necro ?, yeah go make a warrior with GS and longbow and come say that again.

Also the cast time on necro is annoying like crazy if you know that all other classes have ½ sec cast time and necro is usely 3/4 or 1sec, aoe with epidemic is SLOWWW and require alot of setup + 1sec cast epidemic while on my warrior things just go poof their death.

I was under the impression that warriors rock in dungeons, but were in trouble if facing multiple enemies. I admit I’m still kind of new and only have 5 or 6 classes in the 30’s – 40’s so I have much to learn.

I know all classes have their problems, their pluses, their good times, their bad times. I’m not interested in which class is better than necro. I was just curious if those that play the class at higher levels, or for a longer time find it boring.

I realize no one can pick my class, nor do I expect them too. Just looking for opinions. I’m a bit afraid that all of the spells which require ground targeting could get a bit boring.

I’m sure things change at 80, but as of now my necro demolishes my warrior in soloing groups, and veterans. It’s almost too easy with scepter/focus – staff, blood fiend, well of suffering or bone fiend, and shadow fiend.

It’s also a very active plays style with constant casting, cc with 2 fears, snares, shadow fiend blind, constant regen upkeep between focus 4 and staff 2, a decent combo with staff 3, 4, and overall just very durable. I easily soloed 2 vet shadow beast, and a small pack of the smaller shades at level 14. It took a while, but finished with 100 % hps and barely got touched. My warrior would of gotten eaten alive. Does it change that drastically at 80?

Warriors have the edge in AoE and single target DPS because they have an ability called “hundred blades”. This, along with their sword spin charge thing, allows them the highest DPS of any class in PvE.

In WvW, tPvP/sPvP and harder content like Lupicus, this is not actually an advantage as players will simply avoid/evade/block the damage and high end PvE bosses will turn melee players into a greasy streak in seconds.

However, in poorly balanced content where mobs can be killed before they do any damage (see: most DEs, CoF P1 and AoE farming) warriors are the king of single and multi target DPS.

In short, if it’s idiot content a child could complete, a warrior is the best class to use. 4 warrior/1 mes groups can clear CoF in 8 minutes.

However, in PvP/WvW especially, they get dodged and torn apart very easily. Necromancers, while struggling to keep conditions applied to a zerg, are solid players in small scale and 1v1 fights. I honestly haven’t lost to a warrior in a 1v1 for months. As a necro, I have good odds vs almost any class/spec/gear in WvW/PvP, and am a worthy contributor to any instance.

Warriors though – kings of what they do.

Oh, and re: being bored.

I have a PVT set, a knights set, a rabid set and another rabid set with different runes. This allows me to switch specs when the tedium sets in. Yes most of our condition abilities are AoE, but all that means is we don’t struggle to hit things and often hit five things at once.

I’ve played bunker, retal with power, crit centric lifesteal, power build, melee wells, rabid conditions and a good few other specs. Mr Freeze, Deathhammer, the works. We’ve not got a shortage of available specs if you get bored of ground target stuff.

Kyotee.7851:

I’m just worried of getting bored casting ground target spells most of the time.

Honest question, I’m not being sarcastic in any way: how are non-ground-target spells kitten ring (“boring”) than ground-targeting? As far as I can tell, ground targeting is actually more interesting than pressing buttons while your spells auto-target.

That said, I’ve found the Necro to be the most interesting class. And I think these forums are pretty unique in that even when people complain about particular tasks/roles that they think Necros have serious problems with, you still see a lot of “I have a lot of fun on my Necro, but…” or “… still, when I have a choice of any of my chars to play, I choose the Necro.” or things like that.

I’m still not an Axe fan, but it does get stronger later in the game. (I’m currently experimenting with Axe/Focus for Vulnerability Goodness.) I’m a big Staff fan because I like the flexibility of marks: you can pre-place them, you can block areas with them, you can cast them and if somehow you miss, they still have an effect on the situation, and you can cast them behind you. Much more flexible than typical AoE.

SupahSpankeh’s comment about melee classes getting wrecked when fighting high end pve bosses is short sighted. All classes do more damage in melee. And every single boss can be done very easily in melee with the right game knowledge and coordination. Dodge key attacks, use of utilities like reflects and so on. Not to mention ranging things in dungeons is incredibly slow, boring and no real challenge.

I hate seeing people mention 4 warriors and 1 mesmer is only good for cof speed running. Its not. That group setup is the best for speedrunning any dungeon in full melee(occasionally you need a guardian). Once you learn how to speedrun you realise just how much easier you can make the dungeons become even when pugging with players who dont know what they are doing.

I will say playstyle wise necro is probably my favourite class. Unfortunately ive played mine to death and grown a little tired of it and its weaknesses in high level pve. Enjoying playing my guardian and warrior alot more.

Yeh, Axe stays about the same, 2 is ok burst, 1 stacks vun that can be handy for minions.
Dagger is a bit ‘eh’ till you get used to it. Weird things like 1 target/doesn’t cleave.

The problem with conditions at higher levels, 25 stacks per target. So any world event your going to be pushing each others dam off the target. Any big event like a dragon, your usually not going to get credit for as you did too little damage. Also marks from staff etc wont trigger from dragons.
Conditions also wont do any damage on any object, like turrets, doors, weapon racks, catapults, etc.

Then you got, time to get your bleed stacks up. By the time your going good, a war has had enough time to press 100 blades 2×.

Anyway, there the top gripes I have.
I really enjoy my necro. I personally run a power/crit based build.
My main ‘running around’ buddy is a ‘zerker war’. I do usually manage to ‘tank’ for him, keep him under pretty constant regen, and clean his bad conditions. While he melts things in bursts.

Build I ended up with in pve, is 30/0/10/20/10.
Mainly for versatility. I swap marks dam for minion dam, for them minion happy farming spots.
I swap mark size for staff CD depending on situation. (High condition area’s with war buddy I go faster CDs on staff to clean more conditions with staff)
I swap crits heal me for 20% faster wells. (Again solo or group).

It’s good to hear someone else loving a necro. Let us know if you find a ‘sweet spot’ high level necro condition build.

Druitt.7629:

Kyotee.7851:

I’m just worried of getting bored casting ground target spells most of the time.

Honest question, I’m not being sarcastic in any way: how are non-ground-target spells kitten ring (“boring”) than ground-targeting?

That’s actually a very good point! I guess maybe I’ve been looking at it from the other side of the fence regarding ground targeting. It does take more skill, more awareness, more hand eye coordination, and offers so many more possibilities! Thanks for opening my eyes =).

To everyone else, thank you for the great feedback. I’ll be checking back and rereading some of the post. Some really good comments here. But for now, off to my little Sylvari Necro. He has minions to command and centaur villages to pillage sly grin !

I find necromancers utterly mundane. We need more tricks and more ways to shine. ArenaNet should look to the elementalist on how to successfully design a class. Oh well, at least we’re not as boring to play as warriors currently are.

Fungalfoot.7213:

I find necromancers utterly mundane. We need more tricks and more ways to shine. ArenaNet should look to the elementalist on how to successfully design a class. Oh well, at least we’re not as boring to play as warriors currently are.

I wouldn’t quite say mundane, but I would agree that (D/D or S/D) Elementalist design is rather fighting game-esque. This fits extremely well for an “active” combat system in an MMO. As for Necromancers:

-Making DS entry/exit a bit more fluid would work wonders
-Since it seems Necros aren’t slated for more Stability access, maybe allow for DS to “repel” or “absorb” certain CC’s. (Traited, I’m sure … but it could be interesting)
-A bit more direct control on Minions. Make ’em a tactical attack choice.

I’m sure we could pull out more ideas, but those three alone would make Necros “feel” more active in a fight, and not make ’em the next Kings of OP.

I made the necro because I was bored. This always happens with me, I get bored of all the things on a class and then play another one until I’m bored of that; eventually I’ve gone through enough that I feel like playing one of the older ones again, and the cycle continues. As for how it compares to other things, I will say that some aspects of it are quite boring for the effort they require. DS for example always has the same skills regardless of my build or choice of weapons, which makes it a bit like my guardian with virtues, except with virtues if you don’t trait their actives the most useful they’ll ever be is when you ignore them.

If I can ignore something boring I don’t care nearly as much that it is, but if I have to activate it and use those same old things time and time again in order to get any benefit from them, I’ll get sick of it eventually. Thus for me DS serves useful but limited purposes as an overshield, interrupt, tackle and sometimes just throwing up some might stacks. I’d like to use it as often as it’s available, for as long as I can, but I would want it to match my build. If I use a dagger or axe, I probably built around fast attacks and don’t want really slow skills with high single-hit damage like life blast, and if I build for conditions I don’t want that attack at all, so I end up limited to its other skills with no reason to stay in there once whichever I need is on c/d. If it just did something to amplify my existing auto-attack and granted me the other three skills, which are all largely utility anyway (except if traited for terror) I’d be much happier with it (and things like the auto granting might could easily happen over time or have a short c/d to keep balance).

Elite skills underwater are another big one like that. Or rather, elite skill underwater. What’s that, you built for minions? Too bad! Not using conditions and/or chilling darkness? Too bad! Have a nice swim…

Aside from that though, I don’t think it’s unusually boring. Sometimes glitchy or seemingly poorly thought out, but it has different enough skills and playstyle that I do enjoy the parts that work properly. The fact that it has ranged attacks which aren’t projectiles or AOE for instance is interesting and offers ways to bypass things like reflection, and it’s the only class which can look at an enemy loaded with boons and just go ‘nope’ in the blink of an eye. On a related note, I’m not aware of any others which apply conditions to themselves intentionally either, and while some convert conditions to boons, the ability to eat conditions and actually benefit notably from doing so is fun.

Scepter and Axe are totally different builds, first one is condition build and the latter is power build. The nice thing about Necromancers, is that there are a lot of builds which you can use and are viable in PvE.

- Dagger / Axe main hand with Warhorn / focus off hand, and Wells
- Bunker using Death Shroud
- Bunker using Healing Power (Siphoning)
- Conditionmaster
- Minion Master
- Hybrids

So even if we assume you get bored from one build, farm and get a whole new set for a new build. Your whole experience will differ

I find my Necro most enjoyable out of any of my toons in pve/pvp

In pve your farming speed is very fast |mob/nuke/loot|; well of corruption. staff marks over well, deathshoud fear/siphon and very few lvl 80 mobs are still standing. You can also group up spread out mobs easily by aggroing with staff auto / 2. I only farm open pve with necro anymore as it feels so much faster than my other toons.

Dungeons, don’t worry they are viable n incredibly tanky if specced/played well. I usually run arah with Warr/Guard but have been using Necro lately as utility is very useful to a well organized dungeon group, especially with condition focusing/epidemic. For dungeons I’d recommend PVT karma armor when you hit 80, i use full pvt powermancer ( 4900 damage w might, 2k tough, 29k vit) for dungeons and the control/group support/dps is pretty decent. Also, life force management and learning to deathshroud effectively to mitigate burst, close gap, interrupt is also pretty important for necro survivability in dungeons (+sPVP, WvW, PVE).

I use either axe/focus or dagger/warhorn depending on what im up2(with a staff)
Axe/Focus
Synergy with Vunerability stacking, aoe cripple, a chill, boon strip, low dps.
You use this set for a power necro and it should only ever be used as a fast swap set, once your ghastly claws/vun/chill/cripple is out swap back asap to your staff. The boon strip is useful against bunkers, aoe cripple in zerg blob but tbh it is a niche set that’s about setting up your damage, rather than your damage. The axe autoattack even traited is some of the worst dps from any MH in the game, but axe is about stacking vulnerability then getting back to a real weapon. Even geared with traited axe, yes it feels very weak but not underpowered as its a utility set.

Dagger/Warhorn
Damage/immobilize/healing/interrupt for heal or skills, swift/cripple.
With spec walk you can keep up perma swift with this set, w a lingering aoe cripple/swift making it easier to land your powerful autoattack. You also have decent heal on short cd, immobilize to set up burst and a daze (stop a heal/mate getting spiked, interrupt rotation) with good damage. Only real issue with this set is that locust swarm can get you into combat (from adds nearby and it also bugs on activation sometimes) giving u v slow ’in-combat- movement speed.

Your effective hit points is over double most classes with deathshroud, easily perma swift, survive any fall, amazing condition removal/manipulation, interrupts, ranged chills, high burst damage.
Alot of people complain about Necro mobility but we have 3 blink like skills; spectral walk-timer not range, dark path-short cd w a chill, and flesh wurm (necrotic traversal-can be used defensively/offensively). Necromancer brings control (daze/fears/chills/cripples) with effectively a 2nd health-bar, they are really fun if you like fast/accurate ground targeting and resource management.
Necro doesn’t really shine until later levels/traits, have fun

-Since it seems Necros aren’t slated for more Stability access, maybe allow for DS to “repel” or “absorb” certain CC’s. (Traited, I’m sure … but it could be interesting)

Advent, your idea about traited DS for CC block/immunity (stability) is cool but already done. ‘Foot in the grave’ trait gives 3seconds stability every 10 seconds if you enter/exit shroud immediately, just on a bad trait line.
Atm the only thing necro can do against a party chaining CC’s (ragdolled) is put 30pts in useless trait line or pop a 180second elite to get access to stability. This wasn’t an oversight (eng/thief have a hard time w stab 2- Elixir S/DStorm), it is completely intentional imo promoting class diversity/group support and teamwork…your mob getting CC’d alot, get guards w SYG+hallowed ground.

What would be awesome is traited deathshroud to REFLECT all CC back at caster 3:)

TLDR Nope

Necro is fun overall, but the one thing that bothers me is the little we can do to increase our damage in fun ways. Especially with dagger the best damage is just autoattacking and dropping Well of Suffering. With other professions you can actually weave skills into your rotation for more damage. It’s not fun just sitting there autoattacking a champion. Is it nice to have situational skills? Sure, but I’d like to see weapon skills do more damage. What if Dark Pact was also a big nuke? You would want to save it for the immobilize if relevant, but if you’re in a situation where the champ is immune to immobilize it would be nice to have a use for the skill. Just for example.