Guild Wars 2

I fear that with the upcoming Living story (Twilight assault), necros will have a difficult time joining groups because they offer no group support. Please, for the love of Grenth, necros need to be (at least) viable in PvE. Forget necro’s direct damage, it will always be at the bottom. Condition cleanse as a group support does not even cut it (bugged Putrid mark lol) because enemies does not apply alot of unique conditions. So, I suggest that we should get more combo finishers/fields, group boons or anything that will make us dungeon-worthy.

We do have group support, we always have, it is just less wanted because ANet has bad boss design.

Considering the new dungeon path appears to have Aetherblades, necros may find themselves being requested more. Aetherblades like spamming boons (I’ve seen 15+stacks of might on some of them) and some use chill and vulnerability a lot as well. Necro boon and condition play will be much more useful there than, well, just about any other dungeon (Twilight Arbor is already a condition-heavy dungeon).

We dont have support → looks at Sgrasp, 4 out of 5 wells, epidemic, aoe count and fun little facts called best chill and second best weakness application that have been increasingly more useful with each new fight (well not Tequila but he is a massive cooperation wall/anti leecher system).

Necros are fine in dungeons, even wanted in certain circumstances (lots of mobs). Where you should focus your IRE is on the fact that condition users in general need to not overlap, or they start to really drop in effectiveness. That isn’t a necro problem, that is a game design problem.

Chances are, this new dungeon will be more about dodging things, and playing intelligently rather than DPS racing (though looking at teq…..). If that is the case, any smart player will find a group.

Bump A ‘role’ for PvE that necro’s fill would be very nice. (Tho if they get minions/blood magic working in PvE, I guess we’d do a swam or something ok)

I think we do have a role to fill for support, its just up to ANet to make it worthwhile.

That role is sustained healing (which we do very well) and offensive support via condition spam. However, as we all know, sustained healing isn’t that necessary in general right now (burst damage generally wants burst healing), and condition support just isn’t that needed either because of how bosses work. Not that its bad, but in general it isn’t really needed. However if they make bosses harder, and make them more susceptible to conditions, then I see it becoming very helpful.

The main problem (I think) Necromancers have in PvE is our CC on bosses is not very effective. Blind, chill, poison, weakness, cripple, vulnerability, bleed, fear, daze, how many of these conditions really work on a boss? Does boon corruption work? A large part of the profession’s tool set is limited in effectiveness.

On the other hand, professions that buff the group do not have the same problems. Sure, the boss has Defiant and refuses to be knocked all over like a Necromancer Ping-Pong ball but group support and combat mobility skills are not crimped like the Necro’s boss de-buffing.

Have to agree with Anchoku on this one.

morokris.8462:

I fear that with the upcoming Living story (Twilight assault), necros will have a difficult time joining groups because they offer no group support. Please, for the love of Grenth, necros need to be (at least) viable in PvE. Forget necro’s direct damage, it will always be at the bottom. Condition cleanse as a group support does not even cut it (bugged Putrid mark lol) because enemies does not apply alot of unique conditions. So, I suggest that we should get more combo finishers/fields, group boons or anything that will make us dungeon-worthy.

Support? When do dungeons ever need supports? 5 dps ftw

If weakness and chill was better in pve we would have a role. But we also need to cleave to be taken more seriously.

In terms of new TA, I think we’ll be fine. Unless it involves a lot of OHKO, projectile.

Dungeon need support, but support doesn’t mean you can’t have dps. You can stack might, bring block, reflect, stability, vigor, condition cleanse without putting anything in so called support states like healing power.

And Anchoku is right. For every condition, there’s a boon. For example, blind vs block, weakness vs vigor, fear vs stability, vul vs might. In pve, the boon almost always outshines the condition counterpart. Many because of defiant. And some because of the cap. The fact that almost all of our “support” is based on condition, our position won’t change unless they fix the boss mechanics.

spoj.9672:

If weakness and chill was better in pve we would have a role. But we also need to cleave to be taken more seriously.

Epidemic is our cleave, but only for condi users.

IF we could condition bosses with said CC we would be worth our weight in gold.
Sadly as soon as we Weaken or Blind etc most bosses wipe there faces clean of them
But you dont see bosses debuffing boons so at least were on par with our boon buff counterparts!
Its a good comparison Anchoku , never thought of it but makes my Condi feel even more neglected

Andele.1306:

We dont have support -> looks at Sgrasp, 4 out of 5 wells, epidemic, aoe count and fun little facts called best chill and second best weakness application that have been increasingly more useful with each new fight (well not Tequila but he is a massive cooperation wall/anti leecher system).

SGrasp is garbage compared to Mesmer focus 4.

Chill and crippled are terrible on non melee bosses.
Well of darkness is an inferior but larger pistol 5 (a spam able vs long cooldown skill)
Well of corruption is great in one of the guild bounties, Well of power is great in one fractal fight, but that’s it for both of those skills which are useless most of the rest of the time.

Mesmer sword boon stripping is far superior to anything we have on long cool downs, and the boons are hardly important in pve anyways. The karka Queen what else?

Most of the team support on Staff got nerfed.

Well of blood is no water field, and necromancer has few finishers.

The last boss I fought literally told me “Your weakness makes me laugh.”. It didn’t stay on him long either due to how conditions work on bosses.

nekretaal.6485:

Andele.1306:

We dont have support -> looks at Sgrasp, 4 out of 5 wells, epidemic, aoe count and fun little facts called best chill and second best weakness application that have been increasingly more useful with each new fight (well not Tequila but he is a massive cooperation wall/anti leecher system).

SGrasp is garbage compared to Mesmer focus 4.

Chill and crippled are terrible on non melee bosses.
Well of darkness is an inferior but larger pistol 5 (a spam able vs long cooldown skill)
Well of corruption is great in one of the guild bounties, Well of power is great in one fractal fight, but that’s it for both of those skills which are useless most of the rest of the time.

Mesmer sword boon stripping is far superior to anything we have on long cool downs, and the boons are hardly important in pve anyways. The karka Queen what else?

Most of the team support on Staff got nerfed.

Well of blood is no water field, and necromancer has few finishers.

The last boss I fought literally told me “Your weakness makes me laugh.”. It didn’t stay on him long either due to how conditions work on bosses.

I like this post. All true and the exact reason why no decent players take necros over other classes.

nekretaal.6485:

Andele.1306:

We dont have support -> looks at Sgrasp, 4 out of 5 wells, epidemic, aoe count and fun little facts called best chill and second best weakness application that have been increasingly more useful with each new fight (well not Tequila but he is a massive cooperation wall/anti leecher system).

…
The last boss I fought literally told me “Your weakness makes me laugh.”. It didn’t stay on him long either due to how conditions work on bosses.

I lol’d

nekretaal.6485:

Andele.1306:

We dont have support -> looks at Sgrasp, 4 out of 5 wells, epidemic, aoe count and fun little facts called best chill and second best weakness application that have been increasingly more useful with each new fight (well not Tequila but he is a massive cooperation wall/anti leecher system).

SGrasp is garbage compared to Mesmer focus 4.

Chill and crippled are terrible on non melee bosses.
Well of darkness is an inferior but larger pistol 5 (a spam able vs long cooldown skill)
Well of corruption is great in one of the guild bounties, Well of power is great in one fractal fight, but that’s it for both of those skills which are useless most of the rest of the time.

Mesmer sword boon stripping is far superior to anything we have on long cool downs, and the boons are hardly important in pve anyways. The karka Queen what else?

Most of the team support on Staff got nerfed.

Well of blood is no water field, and necromancer has few finishers.

The last boss I fought literally told me “Your weakness makes me laugh.”. It didn’t stay on him long either due to how conditions work on bosses.

Its not like you might wanna cherrpick a champ out of a group with sgrasp instead of aggroing everything and a mesmer sure can melee without spamming blurred frenzy so that he doesnt die from a fly buzzing in their general direction.
Chill is insane on ranged bosses because they technically dont have any auto attacks/everything has a cooldown.
A blockable projectile that is also rng because the first 2 shots are cc thus plain evaporate their worth on everything with defiant is sure comparable to a giant well of blinds.
And yeah aoe corruption of boons and flipping conditions sure is worthless, especially since such specializations for a skill totally dont mean you are wasting half the skill cough null field in pve and totally aint getting a stronger return.
Staff is bugged, gonna get fixed, back when phantasams did 0 damage just as clones was that a nerf?

No but it heals for more than anything mesmers can spew up,
Also i think you have some problems with either your brain or you dont understand the stats in game, there is this thing called condition duration.;
So no necro control and utility is still way better than most (guardian and ele being the only ones to outshine it on a single person level). And no reflecting 40k damage bolts isnt utility, its abuse of game mechanics.

If Necromancer had 2 new weapons, they could seriously help our situation without reworking PvE bosses. These are what I think the profession needs:

1. A long-range (1200) , single-target, direct-damage weapon with blind. If the Necromancer could repeatedly poke the boss in the eye for direct damage, blind, daze, and other CC, I would be ecstatic. The Staff does not do much direct damage being mainly designed for AoE (and it’s been nerfed.) We need something designed for higher dps on a single target and include conditions that kitten a boss’s outgoing damage.

2. A shortish-ranged weapon (300) with cleave and enough bleed to maintain a small stack after switching from the longer-ranged, high-stacking scepter. Torment and other mobility-limiting and damage-reducing conditions will be necessary. Weakness, blind (again), cripple, poison, these are things that are already on scepter/dagger but that weapon set is more focused on AoE conditions and less on direct damage. That is why a 2H weapon with single-target versions of these skills, plus Torment, is necessary. The scepter is great for stacking bleeds while kiting. Something that can maintain a few bleeds while doing dagger-like damage is what Necromancer could really use.

@Andele

Sgrasp is very situational. Mesmer focus pull is useful almost everywhere, and it can be traited for reflect (ignoring the damage thats good utility defense for the group). Null field is way better than well of corruption. Not to mention mesmers can spew out sword 3 clones and phantasmal disenchanters to create permanent boon removal. Necro can only burst boon remove every now and again. Chill isnt needed anywhere, but it can be slightly helpful, just not worth taking over something else. Weakness has the same issue.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unshakable

Renders weakness pretty much useless. And chill usually doesnt effect boss cooldowns.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Necromancer-weapons-request

Post a comment here to keep this topic hot.

You should probably link the weapons thread to that one.

Del and I both have put up many support builds and tips. If people don’t want to use them not much we can do to help you. That being said though, the effectiveness of support dwindles on bosses mainly because of defiant. Blinds are mostly ineffective regardless of how much you can stack it, chills are only good as movement control, but most problem bosses have ranged ohko . anyway I’m actually more worried about those kinds of bosses in this new dungeon because I have a feeling we’re going to see more one hit spasm like the aether one and be left in the dirt once our dodges are gone. Time will tell, but hopefully if we do suffer here it will put a glaring spotlight on necro weaknesses in dungeons.

I have played Necromancer support with Apothecary gear for months and have preferred it to other gear sets and builds I have on my necro, especially in WvW. Even the MoB/MoE + Well of Blood can rival damage healed per second over long periods on paper (crunched the numbers a while back and discussed/debated with others). Other classes are/can be better spike healers (eles/rangers with water fields ) and healers over time (guardian), but have to trait heavily into support for their heals,or don’t and depend on tons of finishers and/or require allies being in close range. All necro healing, especially if condition damage, has dual/triple function and can all be casted at 900-1200 range (except transfusion and MoE traits). That means a necro doesn’t have to “switch” to support like ele’s and water attunement or get close to allies like Guardians. The more aggressive you are in a battle the better you’re support becomes more times than not.

However, that’s not the focus of Necro support and the following is why the role is kitten in PVE: Necro support is designed around transfering or converting boons/condtions, but most PVE mobs don’t use boons/conditions. This is also the reason why DPS builds are so popular because there’s hardly any enemy DoT or buffs, just clean spike dmg coupled with lots of health (which is bad for conditions). This allows people to exploit and fall back only on evading while doing max dps as glass cannons.

When we see a lot of sustained boon or condition use by enemy mobs necro is great (Ascalonian Fractal, Aetherblades, Cliffside Fractal at the two regening seals etc.). Unlike other professions that just strip boons or conditions, a Necro can seriously debuff a huge group of enemies with 10-25 stacks of conditions with Well of Corruption, use epidemic and make a hard fights much easier. Then there’s Putrid Mark (thats bugged atm) and Deathly Swarm that also work great. Well of Power can do the exact opposite by turning around a fight by changing stacks of conditions into stacks of boons.

I’m hoping the next two big patches fix some of the technical problems of being necro support. Healing should effect us in DS (even if reduced by 50%-75%). Also adding healing power scaling to all heals/leeches (which seems to be happening).

What necros and necro support really need is a change to enemy design where encounters are full of conditions, boons and where CC is useful. Enemies/Bosses also need to have their health reduced and have them depend more on things like protection, aegis, weakness, evades and blocks like players. Not a gazillion health points that are best taken down by insane power DPS.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/What-EXISTING-weapon-would-you-like-on-Necro

Nice post by Lopez in the Tequatl forum on conditions in PVE. Five pages long so far:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/livingworld/tequatl/Please-stop-neglecting-conditions-in-PvE/2860732

Shameless bump in case ANet are looking over forums for last things to do in that new patch soon!