Playing the engineer “as intended” is simply not viable.
Emergency Action is Needed to Save Necros
Playing the engineer “as intended” is simply not viable.
I’m more concerned that a lot of this will be nerfed. There are some very, very strong combos right now. Which I think is needed, and we’ve always needed, but some of these traits and skills will be incredible in the right circumstances/with the right team/in the hands of the right player.
/facepalm
….
YouTube Channel
Incredible how?
The demo for the Dragon Hunter has a guard killing the chieftain in like 3 seconds…. The demo for the Reaper has necro plodding along against level 71 pve trash….
…we’re screwed.
Playing the engineer “as intended” is simply not viable.
Incredible how?
The demo for the Dragon Hunter has a guard killing the chieftain in like 3 seconds…. The demo for the Reaper has necro plodding along against level 71 pve trash….
…we’re screwed.
Oh, so you’re basing this off nothing meaningful. Good to know.
To save this thread all I worry about right now is battle initiation, with 0 LF we are weak and the trade-off with LF gain vs damage taken during the first fight is close to deadly.
The Dhuumfire thread
Roe, How are you going to fight a ranger? How are you going to fight a Dragon Knight? A shortbow thief? a condi thief? pistol engi? nades?
My longbow ranger uses chill and cripple runes… I can see it now. Reapers are cannon fodder.
Playing the engineer “as intended” is simply not viable.
Roe, How are you going to fight a ranger? How are you going to fight a Dragon Knight? A shortbow thief? a condi thief? pistol engi? nades?
My longbow ranger uses chill and cripple runes… I can see it now. Reapers are cannon fodder.
You’re right, there can be some big weaknesses. But, honestly, most of those specs aren’t too dangerous for me now with a power necro, and this elite specialization will have a lot more synergy. But I feel like you should explore the traits a little more, there are a lot of threads right now talking about the different things going on. At first, I was having some of the same thoughts, but wow, there are some really huge combos for both power and condi.
But please, please don’t base any of your thoughts about this off of what random videos they decide to show. Scaled down random PVE gear and vs PvP amulet, and no numbers are final.
Also, yeah, bad Reapers will be bad, just like bad necros right not are really bad. You have to play to your class and Reaper will be no different. Unless you’re a d/d ele I suppose.
Roe, How are you going to fight a ranger? How are you going to fight a Dragon Knight? A shortbow thief? a condi thief? pistol engi? nades?
My longbow ranger uses chill and cripple runes… I can see it now. Reapers are cannon fodder.
What is a Dragon Knight? Or do you mean Dragon Hunter?
I would guess that staff as secondary weapon is quite useful against those…
I mostly agree. People see the new flashy animations and particle effects + all the benefits you can THEORETICALLY get with chill and are excited. Then from the point of view of the developers the discussion is over. Meanwhile, most of the issues that have caused necros to be bottom tier almost throughout the existence of GW2 are still not addressed. I believe this will become painfully visible once people actually start to play the new specs.
I have been trying to make chillmancer work for the longest time, since it is a really nice concept. IN THEORY. In practical terms, there is not a single meta class that it shines against. This will I believe still be true for the reaper: being locked out of any long range damage/engage and not having very good condi removal I see a HUGE problem with being slowed and kited indefinitely.
Roe, How are you going to fight a ranger? How are you going to fight a Dragon Knight? A shortbow thief? a condi thief? pistol engi? nades?
My longbow ranger uses chill and cripple runes… I can see it now. Reapers are cannon fodder.
soo…you completely ignored the 6 second CD dash that is unaffected by movement impairing conditions and the trait that reduces the duration of said conditions by 33% (and 66% in RS). So chill and criplle can fff theirselves. The 6 second cd is without path of midnight/the new equivalent btw. The new equivalent had (subject to change obv) a 30% recharge reduction on DS skills, meaning it makes the dash a ~4 second cd ability. Which also rips 2 boons per hit when traited, and the dash hits up to 5 enemies.
As for Terrormancers, you can always not pick reaper. Or, yknow, take reaper with dhuumfire and chill = damage.
I’m more concerned that a lot of this will be nerfed. There are some very, very strong combos right now. Which I think is needed, and we’ve always needed, but some of these traits and skills will be incredible in the right circumstances/with the right team/in the hands of the right player.
I agree with Roe. With some of the insane concept builds coming to life the Reaper will be devastating. Teleports on a Reaper don’t make sense conceptually speaking as it wouldn’t fit into the theme Reapers have been given which is I might be slower GS wise and lose range from DS shifting to KS (Knight Shroud or Reaper Shoud) but eventually (any good Necromancer able to setup and adjust to fluid combat) will catch his prey with the amount of chill the spec has to offer along with the abilities from other weapon sets. As for group play if you want condi removal equip Trooper runes and they will condi clear on your shouts. Or, another lesser known option is Unholy Martyr which will periodically remove 1 condition every 3 secs from 1 party member at a time. However concept wise, every 9 seconds you’d remove 3 condi’s. When compared to a skill like Mantra of Resolve that has a 20 second recharge it can AOE cleanse 4 condi every 20 seconds. Or with the rework traits coming to Mesmer’s core line the skill Mantra of Recovery coupled with the new Mender’s Purity trait which will make the actual channel heal as well as the two casts heal for upwards of easily 6k+ to you with a 10s CD removing 6 conditions from 5 members around you. This is alot of condi removal for PvE,PvP, or WvW for your party while giving healing to your party. This is an EXTREME case of condi removal and group play. Unholy Martyr will only remove 3 every 10 seconds which is on par with the Warriors Burst ability clearing 3 conditions. It only scales the longer you’re in KS which with the newly reworked Unholy Martyr recovers 10% of your LIFE FORCE per condition it receives. Meaning you will recover 30% of your LF every 10 seconds just sitting in it without even attacking with the AA. This will allow you to almost stay in KS, and knowing that health siphoning abilities will work through the new KS it means you could effectively flip your actual health bar into your second health bar IF you needed to recover LF if you took on to many conditions yourself in which Consume Conditions becomes a much better heal don’t you think? Reaper doesn’t need saving-maybe some small tweaking but not saving. Btw I made this up small part of a build below in less than 5mins overlooking the new traits with Reaper builds. Imagine the possibilities after finding out the builds that aren’t discovered yet?
So for instance. If you were to take that example into a 5m dungeon coupling it with Plague Signet . This literally means that every 10s you’ll receive a potential x15 (1 condition from every party member every 3s – 5 potential condition every 3s) conditions from your party with it totaling 150% OF YOUR LIFE FORCE alone IF you were in KS without the Unholy Martyr passive procs-with it this means you’ll total a MASSIVE 180% gain in Life Force. In my opinion, with the newly reworked Blood Magic offer vampiric aura (We don’t know how it’ll work yet exactly) with the ability to take x6 condtions every 3s while in KS (Knight Shroud) with the new Unholy Martyr trait will mean you literally might be able to out “heal” the damage the conditions might be doing to you from PvE,Fractal instances. While all along applying tons of vuln and crowd control for your party to actually DPS while doing tons of damage yourself. Is this not supportive enough for ANY PvE content. It literally matches the extreme condition cleanse of Mesmers traited Mantra of Recovery. Btw all of this could be done in DPS armor, if you were to place this Reaper in ANY sort of tank PVT armor. He’d literally be able to tank most if not all boss fights in the game without dodging in PvE/Fractals instances I suspect.
Also I just realized that the Suffer shout would become MUCH more useful with this build giving you three ways to clear alot of conditions if you were loaded down too much via Consume Conditions and Suffer hitting 5 players transferring 5 conditions and Plague Signet itself active ability. Tbh this might be brought to great devastation in a Condition Reaper build wearing Carrion armor in tandem with Epidemic conceptually speaking.
“Abaddon DOES NOT LOSE DANCE CONTESTS!!!”
(edited by KashimKudal.2961)
I mostly agree. People see the new flashy animations and particle effects + all the benefits you can THEORETICALLY get with chill and are excited. Then from the point of view of the developers the discussion is over. Meanwhile, most of the issues that have caused necros to be bottom tier almost throughout the existence of GW2 are still not addressed. I believe this will become painfully visible once people actually start to play the new specs.
I have been trying to make chillmancer work for the longest time, since it is a really nice concept. IN THEORY. In practical terms, there is not a single meta class that it shines against. This will I believe still be true for the reaper: being locked out of any long range damage/engage and not having very good condi removal I see a HUGE problem with being slowed and kited indefinitely.
But your chillmacer build almost surely doesn’t have the same synergy that a Reaper would, in that it’s also giving huge amounts of vulnerability, gaining might, and dealing AOE damage. Chillmancer sacrifices too much utility and damage for the chill to be viable, but with a Reaper it comes naturally and feeds into other traits.
As The Gates Assassin has pointed out, if they just give us generic boon support, it won’t matter because a guardian or ele will still do it better and we likely still won’t compete damage wise. What we needed is more necromancer specific support and utility, which we just got a lot of – or at least – a lot more than we ever had before.
Also I’m regards to getting nerfed, I think we have some potentially devastating traits right now that when a reaper does get a hold of someone without the condi clear or escapes necessary to get away, those people will get rekt. Then will come to the forum complaining about have chill and 20 stacks of vuln, fighting a reaper with 10 stacks of might after chill of death procced. Even though kiting, or focusing, or ranging a reaper should be easy enough to do.
Some people already think power necro is too strong, just wait until someone like that gets blown away by a reaper. The tears will flow.
(edited by Roe.3679)
I like what they have given the class and I for one am what in to see the changes to the blood line that could be a signicant group utility for us. Life siphon is actually fairly useful in pve off set splash and condi damage.
It was 2 vs 20 but its ok we got’em both!
/facepalm
….
I have to second this…. /facepalm
For practically the first time Anet really hear our complains and people still are with doom mode activated. I’m seriously confused about human behaviour right now :S
Honestly, we can’t really tell much until we can actually try it out. So I’d hold off on the ‘OMG U FAILED US ANET’. They gave us a lot of what we asked for, so I’d say everything is going in the right direction.
My only concerns are in pve, we still have the DS mechanic (That spells trouble), we also still have very weak group support, siphoning is still not going to be good vs taking Soul Reaping/Spite because of the lack of damage traits. Just remember, DS is the reason we were in the hole in the first place and It could happen again If our combos are too powerful.
But as I said, let’s all just relax and wait before we pass horrible judgement. I have no doubt we can try it out in the beta.
Necro main since beta, MMO fanatic and avid beta tester.
Roe, How are you going to fight a ranger? How are you going to fight a Dragon Knight? A shortbow thief? a condi thief? pistol engi? nades?
My longbow ranger uses chill and cripple runes… I can see it now. Reapers are cannon fodder.
pretty sure the 33-66% snare duration will be staple in all reaper builds all they need is a staff and they can close the gap enough to get in range for the GS pull
Roe, How are you going to fight a ranger? How are you going to fight a Dragon Knight? A shortbow thief? a condi thief? pistol engi? nades?
My longbow ranger uses chill and cripple runes… I can see it now. Reapers are cannon fodder.
pretty sure the 33-66% snare duration will be staple in all reaper builds all they need is a staff and they can close the gap enough to get in range for the GS pull
Swiftness/25% move speed in RS. Infusing terror and the leap. Spectral grasp or the Reapers Grasp.
Sorted.
Roe, How are you going to fight a ranger? How are you going to fight a Dragon Knight? A shortbow thief? a condi thief? pistol engi? nades?
My longbow ranger uses chill and cripple runes… I can see it now. Reapers are cannon fodder.
pretty sure the 33-66% snare duration will be staple in all reaper builds all they need is a staff and they can close the gap enough to get in range for the GS pull
Swiftness/25% move speed in RS. Infusing terror and the leap. Spectral grasp or the Reapers Grasp.
Sorted.
I was thinking more along the lines of staff 4 to send the snares back, staff 3 for ranged chill, and staff 5 for cc + chill. but that works too.
If (core) necromancer doesn’t change much from the way Anet is currently changing it, then all I can say is…
Can’t wait to become a revenant!
Well they redid blood magic as seen from the stream so I expect more changes for our traits. More so then other classes honestly.
I think It’s pretty safe to say the core Necro isn’t going to change. I doubt they’ll ever make us truly viable. Still, at least we’re headed in the right direction. But as always, I’ve learned to not get my hopes up with this class. :P
As for Blood Magic line, they’re gonna have to do serious work to make it good. They can’t just slap on a “Hey! You can Siphon in DS now! It’s viable right!?” Which is what I’m betting they’re gonna do.
Necro main since beta, MMO fanatic and avid beta tester.
Roe, How are you going to fight a ranger? How are you going to fight a Dragon Knight? A shortbow thief? a condi thief? pistol engi? nades?
My longbow ranger uses chill and cripple runes… I can see it now. Reapers are cannon fodder.
pretty sure the 33-66% snare duration will be staple in all reaper builds all they need is a staff and they can close the gap enough to get in range for the GS pull
How?
Spectral Grasp.
I’m more concerned that a lot of this will be nerfed. There are some very, very strong combos right now. Which I think is needed, and we’ve always needed, but some of these traits and skills will be incredible in the right circumstances/with the right team/in the hands of the right player.
I agree with Roe. With some of the insane concept builds coming to life the Reaper will be devastating. Teleports on a Reaper don’t make sense conceptually speaking as it wouldn’t fit into the theme Reapers have been given which is I might be slower GS wise and lose range from DS shifting to KS (Knight Shroud or Reaper Shoud) but eventually (any good Necromancer able to setup and adjust to fluid combat) will catch his prey with the amount of chill the spec has to offer along with the abilities from other weapon sets. As for group play if you want condi removal equip Trooper runes and they will condi clear on your shouts. Or, another lesser known option is Unholy Martyr which will periodically remove 1 condition every 3 secs from 1 party member at a time. However concept wise, every 9 seconds you’d remove 3 condi’s. When compared to a skill like Mantra of Resolve that has a 20 second recharge it can AOE cleanse 4 condi every 20 seconds. Or with the rework traits coming to Mesmer’s core line the skill Mantra of Recovery coupled with the new Mender’s Purity trait which will make the actual channel heal as well as the two casts heal for upwards of easily 6k+ to you with a 10s CD removing 6 conditions from 5 members around you. This is alot of condi removal for PvE,PvP, or WvW for your party while giving healing to your party. This is an EXTREME case of condi removal and group play. Unholy Martyr will only remove 3 every 10 seconds which is on par with the Warriors Burst ability clearing 3 conditions. It only scales the longer you’re in KS which with the newly reworked Unholy Martyr recovers 10% of your LIFE FORCE per condition it receives. Meaning you will recover 30% of your LF every 10 seconds just sitting in it without even attacking with the AA. This will allow you to almost stay in KS, and knowing that health siphoning abilities will work through the new KS it means you could effectively flip your actual health bar into your second health bar IF you needed to recover LF if you took on to many conditions yourself in which Consume Conditions becomes a much better heal don’t you think? Reaper doesn’t need saving-maybe some small tweaking but not saving. Btw I made this up small part of a build below in less than 5mins overlooking the new traits with Reaper builds. Imagine the possibilities after finding out the builds that aren’t discovered yet?
So for instance. If you were to take that example into a 5m dungeon coupling it with Plague Signet . This literally means that every 10s you’ll receive a potential x15 (1 condition from every party member every 3s – 5 potential condition every 3s) conditions from your party with it totaling 150% OF YOUR LIFE FORCE alone IF you were in KS without the Unholy Martyr passive procs-with it this means you’ll total a MASSIVE 180% gain in Life Force. In my opinion, with the newly reworked Blood Magic offer vampiric aura (We don’t know how it’ll work yet exactly) with the ability to take x6 condtions every 3s while in KS (Knight Shroud) with the new Unholy Martyr trait will mean you literally might be able to out “heal” the damage the conditions might be doing to you from PvE,Fractal instances. While all along applying tons of vuln and crowd control for your party to actually DPS while doing tons of damage yourself. Is this not supportive enough for ANY PvE content. It literally matches the extreme condition cleanse of Mesmers traited Mantra of Recovery. Btw all of this could be done in DPS armor, if you were to place this Reaper in ANY sort of tank PVT armor. He’d literally be able to tank most if not all boss fights in the game without dodging in PvE/Fractals instances I suspect.
Also I just realized that the Suffer shout would become MUCH more useful with this build giving you three ways to clear alot of conditions if you were loaded down too much via Consume Conditions and Suffer hitting 5 players transferring 5 conditions and Plague Signet itself active ability. Tbh this might be brought to great devastation in a Condition Reaper build wearing Carrion armor in tandem with Epidemic conceptually speaking.
Informative post. Thank you.
Roe, How are you going to fight a ranger? How are you going to fight a Dragon Knight? A shortbow thief? a condi thief? pistol engi? nades?
My longbow ranger uses chill and cripple runes… I can see it now. Reapers are cannon fodder.
pretty sure the 33-66% snare duration will be staple in all reaper builds all they need is a staff and they can close the gap enough to get in range for the GS pull
Swiftness/25% move speed in RS. Infusing terror and the leap. Spectral grasp or the Reapers Grasp.
Sorted.
It might work if the other players are robots like in the video but when fighting others they can use blocks, blinds, stability, stealth or cc if your stab is gone. Or just blink away from you if you actually do pull them. Maybe staff could work but other classes like ranger and mesmer out damage us by a lot at range. Hopefully its enough to get us in close.
Roe, How are you going to fight a ranger? How are you going to fight a Dragon Knight? A shortbow thief? a condi thief? pistol engi? nades?
My longbow ranger uses chill and cripple runes… I can see it now. Reapers are cannon fodder.
pretty sure the 33-66% snare duration will be staple in all reaper builds all they need is a staff and they can close the gap enough to get in range for the GS pull
How?
Spectral Grasp.
That thing is single target though. Reapers Grasp is up to 5 targets with a (slightly) lower cooldown but half the range and poison instead of chill. And since Reapers want to have many targets…
So for instance. If you were to take that example into a 5m dungeon coupling it with Plague Signet . This literally means that every 10s you’ll receive a potential x15 (1 condition from every party member every 3s – 5 potential condition every 3s) conditions from your party with it totaling 150% OF YOUR LIFE FORCE alone IF you were in KS without the Unholy Martyr passive procs-with it this means you’ll total a MASSIVE 180% gain in Life Force. In my opinion, with the newly reworked Blood Magic offer vampiric aura (We don’t know how it’ll work yet exactly) with the ability to take x6 condtions every 3s while in KS (Knight Shroud) with the new Unholy Martyr trait will mean you literally might be able to out “heal” the damage the conditions might be doing to you from PvE,Fractal instances. While all along applying tons of vuln and crowd control for your party to actually DPS while doing tons of damage yourself. Is this not supportive enough for ANY PvE content. It literally matches the extreme condition cleanse of Mesmers traited Mantra of Recovery. Btw all of this could be done in DPS armor, if you were to place this Reaper in ANY sort of tank PVT armor. He’d literally be able to tank most if not all boss fights in the game without dodging in PvE/Fractals instances I suspect.
What are you even talking about? Signets don’t work in DS, and plague signet only pulls one condition per 3s, unless it has changed recently.
The buff to unholy martyr is quite significant though.
/facepalm
….
This………..
“You give Arena net more reason to destroy Necromancer roots”
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Meet-the-Reaper/page/7#post5071681
“One who has learned to draw power from the blood sacrifice and communion with death, the Necromancer uses black magic to cast curses and raise undead minions”.
“http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Necromancer
Finally: a Necromancer player agree with me and see what is really happening to the Necromancer Profession.
" A tree stands strong not by its fruits or branches,but by the depth of its roots ”
" Don’t rush into something just because it looks good, because a lot of things that look good aren’t always good for you "
“ There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn’t true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true ”
-The Reaper is a excuse for Arena net to continue ignore the Necromancer roots and their role-
Be ready for the end of Necromancer once the reaper arrive.
Ankur
(edited by DarkSyze.8627)
Any more salt in these wounds….
I think revenant will just have to be the necro I always wanted because I guess we can’t have viable things.
Some people already think power necro is too strong, just wait until someone like that gets blown away by a reaper. The tears will flow.
Indeed. The PvP and Necro forums will be nerf central for the first few weeks when all this drops. I guarantee it. Some of it may be valid, but I’ll bet money that most of it won’t be and here’s why: People have gotten used to the state of Necro, and just how easy it can be to shut them down and drop them. Having trouble with them, and even losing to them regularly will simply be unacceptable. Mark my words.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Am9gVQB8gss
So for instance. If you were to take that example into a 5m dungeon coupling it with Plague Signet . This literally means that every 10s you’ll receive a potential x15 (1 condition from every party member every 3s – 5 potential condition every 3s) conditions from your party with it totaling 150% OF YOUR LIFE FORCE alone IF you were in KS without the Unholy Martyr passive procs-with it this means you’ll total a MASSIVE 180% gain in Life Force. In my opinion, with the newly reworked Blood Magic offer vampiric aura (We don’t know how it’ll work yet exactly) with the ability to take x6 condtions every 3s while in KS (Knight Shroud) with the new Unholy Martyr trait will mean you literally might be able to out “heal” the damage the conditions might be doing to you from PvE,Fractal instances. While all along applying tons of vuln and crowd control for your party to actually DPS while doing tons of damage yourself. Is this not supportive enough for ANY PvE content. It literally matches the extreme condition cleanse of Mesmers traited Mantra of Recovery. Btw all of this could be done in DPS armor, if you were to place this Reaper in ANY sort of tank PVT armor. He’d literally be able to tank most if not all boss fights in the game without dodging in PvE/Fractals instances I suspect.
What are you even talking about? Signets don’t work in DS, and plague signet only pulls one condition per 3s, unless it has changed recently.
The buff to unholy martyr is quite significant though.
The passive of signets still work in DS. As far as Plague Signet- I suppose it’d have to be confirmed or I’ll simply test it in PvE today. Even if it only pulls 1 every 3s that’s still quite abit of LF sustain along with Unholy Martyr and AA. Either way it’d be a nice part of a build.
@WhiteCrow I agree, a good necro is hard to stop. A good Reaper will be pretty hard to escape or skill even.
“Abaddon DOES NOT LOSE DANCE CONTESTS!!!”
(edited by KashimKudal.2961)
The passive of signets still work in DS. As far as Plague Signet- I suppose it’d have to be confirmed or I’ll simply test it in PvE today. Even if it only pulls 1 every 3s that’s still quite abit of LF sustain along with Unholy Martyr and AA. Either way it’d be a nice part of a build.
Currently, they don’t. To my knowledge, they never have. Start rethinking your build.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
The passive of signets still work in DS. As far as Plague Signet- I suppose it’d have to be confirmed or I’ll simply test it in PvE today. Even if it only pulls 1 every 3s that’s still quite abit of LF sustain along with Unholy Martyr and AA. Either way it’d be a nice part of a build.
Currently, they don’t. To my knowledge, they never have. Start rethinking your build.
Ah you’re correct they dont work within the DS. Good catch
“Abaddon DOES NOT LOSE DANCE CONTESTS!!!”
erm….idk about everyone else, but im actually really really excited about the reaper cant wait to try out all the combos and traits and make my reaper build…. and i think anet actually did listen….its not perfect but i love the reaper so…sorry op but i have to disagree with u.
[AVTR]
Isle of Kickaspenwood
Roe, How are you going to fight a ranger? How are you going to fight a Dragon Knight? A shortbow thief? a condi thief? pistol engi? nades?
My longbow ranger uses chill and cripple runes… I can see it now. Reapers are cannon fodder.
pretty sure the 33-66% snare duration will be staple in all reaper builds all they need is a staff and they can close the gap enough to get in range for the GS pull
Swiftness/25% move speed in RS. Infusing terror and the leap. Spectral grasp or the Reapers Grasp.
Sorted.It might work if the other players are robots like in the video but when fighting others they can use blocks, blinds, stability, stealth or cc if your stab is gone. Or just blink away from you if you actually do pull them. Maybe staff could work but other classes like ranger and mesmer out damage us by a lot at range. Hopefully its enough to get us in close.
True but one you are on them or can pull them they will either be stuck at you or have to burn more cooldowns to get away. I still count that as a win.
Indeed. The PvP and Necro forums will be nerf central for the first few weeks when all this drops. I guarantee it. Some of it may be valid, but I’ll bet money that most of it won’t be and here’s why: People have gotten used to the state of Necro, and just how easy it can be to shut them down and drop them. Having trouble with them, and even losing to them regularly will simply be unacceptable. Mark my words.
^ This is my biggest worry. The class looks okay now. But they may end up destroying it with a future nerf. A very near future nerf.
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-On3Ya0_4Y)
Indeed. The PvP and Necro forums will be nerf central for the first few weeks when all this drops. I guarantee it. Some of it may be valid, but I’ll bet money that most of it won’t be and here’s why: People have gotten used to the state of Necro, and just how easy it can be to shut them down and drop them. Having trouble with them, and even losing to them regularly will simply be unacceptable. Mark my words.
^ This is my biggest worry. The class looks okay now. But they may end up destroying it with a future nerf. A very near future nerf.
It will be much sooner than that. My perdition: less than 3 month.
Read this sad thread: no solution since 3 years.
Ankur
(edited by DarkSyze.8627)
Emergency Action is Needed to Save Necros
—We did not get group value. As the only profession routinely kicked from dungeons, we’re in trouble.
—We did not get mobility. To add insult to injury, the Reapers attack speed is laughable. How are we ever supposed to catch anyone that’s ranged?
—Terror-mancer is dead. This cannot be allowed to happen.
—We can assume minion AI is still broken. They’d be crowing about it if it was working….
—The shouts… If they don’t offer condition removal or mobility, no one will ever use them. Can we get a teleport here? “Nothing-can-save-you” could sure use a 1200 range one…
—Necromancers are not condition masters, and the Reaper seems very weak when it comes to condition removal. Now that burning stacks, conditional removal is more important than ever.
—Greater Marks, Soul Marks, Barbed Precision, Lingering Curse, Terror, Master of Terror, Reaper’s protection, Mark of Evasion. Parasitic Contagion… Too many hard choices.
Reaper is a great theme, but this isn’t going to work…
L2P issues already
You haven’t even started playing it yet.
If you can’t feel the sync between old & new skills & don’t see any use of the shouts I can already tell you : L2P , L2D & Reroll to a shoutbow
Some people already think power necro is too strong, just wait until someone like that gets blown away by a reaper. The tears will flow.
Indeed. The PvP and Necro forums will be nerf central for the first few weeks when all this drops. I guarantee it. Some of it may be valid, but I’ll bet money that most of it won’t be and here’s why: People have gotten used to the state of Necro, and just how easy it can be to shut them down and drop them. Having trouble with them, and even losing to them regularly will simply be unacceptable. Mark my words.
Similar situation to when Hambow first became a thing. I’m not saying that some complaints weren’t justified but many were because players were so used to not having to worry about Warriors and suddenly they did and that annoyed them.
Old Man Burr (War), Bad Hat Ben (Engi), Manly Manny Manson (Guard)
Some people already think power necro is too strong, just wait until someone like that gets blown away by a reaper. The tears will flow.
Indeed. The PvP and Necro forums will be nerf central for the first few weeks when all this drops. I guarantee it. Some of it may be valid, but I’ll bet money that most of it won’t be and here’s why: People have gotten used to the state of Necro, and just how easy it can be to shut them down and drop them. Having trouble with them, and even losing to them regularly will simply be unacceptable. Mark my words.
Similar situation to when Hambow first became a thing. I’m not saying that some complaints weren’t justified but many were because players were so used to not having to worry about Warriors and suddenly they did and that annoyed them.
Same when rangers changed from free kills too.
Some people already think power necro is too strong, just wait until someone like that gets blown away by a reaper. The tears will flow.
Indeed. The PvP and Necro forums will be nerf central for the first few weeks when all this drops. I guarantee it. Some of it may be valid, but I’ll bet money that most of it won’t be and here’s why: People have gotten used to the state of Necro, and just how easy it can be to shut them down and drop them. Having trouble with them, and even losing to them regularly will simply be unacceptable. Mark my words.
Similar situation to when Hambow first became a thing. I’m not saying that some complaints weren’t justified but many were because players were so used to not having to worry about Warriors and suddenly they did and that annoyed them.
Same when rangers changed from free kills too.
I think the frustration there was that every “good” Ranger build has been really unfun to fight against.
Spirits: You basically function off of the passives that they give you.
LB Power: Your main source of damage comes from your AA and skill 2 which both have long (and bugged) range and short CD.
Beastmaster: You basically just evade and regen and slowly wear the enemy down.
They’re all beatable but the mechanics are generally not that engaging. They were the original Turret Engi, not unbeatable but not fun to fight. I would say complaints like that are fairly justified because ideally builds should be fun to play AND fun to fight.
Old Man Burr (War), Bad Hat Ben (Engi), Manly Manny Manson (Guard)
L2P issues already
You haven’t even started playing it yet.
If you can’t feel the sync between old & new skills & don’t see any use of the shouts I can already tell you : L2P , L2D & Reroll to a shoutbow
I think most of us are done with the L2P argument already. If you’re not interested in understanding the problems of a class, don’t even bother responding.
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-On3Ya0_4Y)
I’m more concerned that a lot of this will be nerfed. There are some very, very strong combos right now. Which I think is needed, and we’ve always needed, but some of these traits and skills will be incredible in the right circumstances/with the right team/in the hands of the right player.
Holy kitten, the fact that you need to specify these stipulations makes the “very, very strong combos” kind of lackluster and lame. If everyone received nerfs because they were good in the right situation, this game would be absolute garbage.
I’m more concerned that a lot of this will be nerfed. There are some very, very strong combos right now. Which I think is needed, and we’ve always needed, but some of these traits and skills will be incredible in the right circumstances/with the right team/in the hands of the right player.
Holy kitten, the fact that you need to specify these stipulations makes the “very, very strong combos” kind of lackluster and lame. If everyone received nerfs because they were good in the right situation, this game would be absolute garbage.
Have you mained necromancer at all? Honestly asking this.
Necromancer has had comically weak life siphons and no healing in death shroud (and I suspect no cleave) because of these perfect storm scenarios. ICDs on Signet of Vampirism, Spectral Walk and Spectral Armor, Siphoned Power, nerfs to Lich Form, the super short stability on Foot in the Grave up until this most recent change … there are probably more I’m forgetting, but all of those skills/traits/features are bad because they are put in a box to be sure that in just the right situation they aren’t OP.
Reaper will have perfect storm scenarios and then people will cry and cry about it – and the worst part is that something may be done about those perfect storm scenarios well before the meta is established. The reaction will be just like with LB Rangers now, except I think Reaper will be more viable.
worst thread I ever seen in Necro Forums, Iv bin there from start and I share the frustration but reading this makes me almost ahsamed to be a Necro…
Servant of Dhuum
It is the power scaling, the multiplication of effectiveness, that boon and CC professions have that is the hidden factor in why Necromancer is lower tier.
If other profession get their power scaling toned down a bit, everything will be fine outside of PvE. There is too much positive feedback, synergy, in boon and burst builds.
Inside older PvE, the only fix for the stealth / support (boon) / mobility problem is to redesign PvE.
Necromancer’s Reaper will be strong, though, and may end up getting nerfed.
I would like to wait and see whether or not Necromancers (Core) need emergency anything. Especially since we don’t know anything about the stat rework of life siphons (which will now heal through DS), the new Vampiric Aura ability (which adds Life Steal to allies) and lastly they’re possibly makinh transfusion heal downed players.
Necro core is actually benefiting a lot from the 3 trait lines only and 4 extra trait points, since so many of our traits were unreasonably split up and over multiple trait lines. Many have been combined and more clearly defined. Other classes have nearly lost entire builds or lots of DPS due to this, while a lot of our “close, but not close enough” builds will actually be closer to viable (MMs of all types could become monsters if AI is fixed). More importantly, we now have better access to LF gain and DS traits which we couldn’t afford before.
Reaper is in a very good place. After an evening of dreaming up power builds as I mystic toileted linen/wool armor for new armor sets, I woke up this morning thinking of a new condi build that:
- Uses chills to exploit Chilling Force and Blighters Boon (or Deathly Chill if Chilling Force is enough) for might stacks and LF in pvp. Combined with a sigil of Ice to trigger Chilling Nova while in or out of RS and ensure chill procs.
- Use RS for AoE AA burn with Dhuumfire
- Parasitic Contagion for condi sustain that will be good compared to any life siphon sustain we have now. (15% of a lowly 1-2K condi damage is 150-300 health per second. That’s better than what current siphons can achieve on their best day. On average that’s around 250-290ish health per second with optimal skill siphoning (to the second), weapons and environment. Now take a high damaging condi necro that can easily do 2-4K condi damage over multiple targets and you got some serious regen if you keep condis damaging).
- Death’s Charge as an AoE two boons to conditions converter every 6 seconds. Enough said.
The above can easily be turned into a terrormancer build that’s more tankier, bursty and much harder to kill compared to current Terrormancer (due to all the LF gain, flat 15% damage reduction against chilled foes and the general fact enemies are usually chilled). Or go Lingering Curse (I’m trying to resist it so I don’t get blinders on thinking its the only option cause 100% condi duration) for a lot more condi/chill stacking.
The Reaper also has plenty of condition removal. We don’t have to use just the GS, or just the Shout skills. You can take Consume Conditions or Wells. It has as much access to condition removal as core necro Power builds have.
Basically Reaper is the specialization which gives us access to a lot more soft cc/debuff potential and AoE damage., while being able to sustain in close combat better by adding more LF gain opportunities.
There’s a lot of potential when you look at the numbers (which aren’t set in stone) and more importantly, the mechanics of skills and how they can relate to things Necro core already has or is getting.
The real question is what will our usefulness in PvE be. If Enemy AI, skill/boon usage etc. isn’t good enough to warrant more attrition, offensive support or debuffing, then a thread similar to this should be posted but in relation to mob design, not necro design. What we do know is that Necros will be useful for stripping defiance bars and using DS/RS to absorb a lot of random spread out damage Mordrem Hordes dish out (blocks/invulnerability is less affective in this regard imo when Necros have enough LF gain). It seems Necro glassy builds have a much easier time in the Silverwastes than some other glass build classes. Especially when solo or with a few people defending forts for example.
In another thread I mentioned that there are two camps in the necro community. Those that want necros to fit the meta and those that want the meta to fit necros. There’s a lot more potential for Necros in the latter and for the game as a whole, if Anet tries to make all combat mechanics matter just as much in all game modes.
(edited by Balekai.6083)
Roe, How are you going to fight a ranger? How are you going to fight a Dragon Knight? A shortbow thief? a condi thief? pistol engi? nades?
My longbow ranger uses chill and cripple runes… I can see it now. Reapers are cannon fodder.
pretty sure the 33-66% snare duration will be staple in all reaper builds all they need is a staff and they can close the gap enough to get in range for the GS pull
How?
Spectral Grasp.
That thing is single target though. Reapers Grasp is up to 5 targets with a (slightly) lower cooldown but half the range and poison instead of chill. And since Reapers want to have many targets…
The original post was concerning 1v1 situations in PvP or WvW. Therefore, Spectral Grasp.
L2P issues already
You haven’t even started playing it yet.
If you can’t feel the sync between old & new skills & don’t see any use of the shouts I can already tell you : L2P , L2D & Reroll to a shoutbowI think most of us are done with the L2P argument already. If you’re not interested in understanding the problems of a class, don’t even bother responding.
I main necro, played necro since release. 5k+ on only necros. You can’t tell me that the profession has problems :p