First Reaper nerf of the expansion!

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Posted by: Rising Dusk.2408

Rising Dusk.2408

With this nerf, BB becomes really bad. Even the additional healing does nothing to offset how incredibly bad this trait currently is. Let’s review the traits and skills that can even affect this healing in RS.

  • Reaper’s Might: 1 boon on Shroud 1
  • Siphoned Power: 2 boons when hitting a foe under 50% life, 1s ICD
  • Spiteful Spirit: 1 boon when entering DS
  • Mark of Evasion: 1 boon when dodging in shroud, 8s ICD
  • Foot in the Grave: 1 boon when entering DS
  • Furious Demise: 1 boon when entering DS
  • Chilling Victory: 1 boon when you hit a chilled foe, 1s ICD
  • Infusing Terror: 1 boon per second for 8 seconds, 17s CD traited

Outside of Infusing Terror, the boon application in shroud is really, really bad (even with Spite, no one lets you wail on them sub-50 or with shroud 1 unless you were already poised to crush the fight). Outside of shroud this doesn’t get much better. I seriously think with how regulated Necromancer boon application already is, this trait needs to scale 100% better than it currently does post-nerf both in and out of shroud or it needs to be completely reworked. Otherwise, this trait simply isn’t worth slotting.

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Posted by: Drayos.8759

Drayos.8759

U guys are acting as if this has Completely rendered the Reaper Useless… tbh, the reaper is still fine, i mean Greatsword may need some buffs, it seems it has been abandoned completely due to not capable of landing anything, people in PvE are even saying this situation extends into PvE Content, so i guess there could be a problem somewhere in the Greatsword, the Attacks are VERY SLOW, if theres anything they could maybe use to compensate for this, maybe a Slight increase in the speed of Some of the abilities so we can bring more use to the GS (its a beautiful Skillset.)

it is still capable in itself, imho, Looking at a Complete Revamp of the trait given its situation could be a solution, maybe give us something which will put us back where we are on a more balanceable surface?

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Posted by: Blaine Tog.8304

Blaine Tog.8304

I’m fine with this change. It normalizes the effect across all game modes and party situations, which means it will actually be possible to balance it fairly. If it needs another buff to its numbers (and it may), ANet will be able to make that change without worrying about making it too strong in group situations.

I main Ele and Necro, though I have an alt of each profession at level 80.
How to Condi Reaper on a budget
Everything I say is only in reference to PvE and WvW.

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Posted by: hazenvirus.8154

hazenvirus.8154

I’m fine with this change. It normalizes the effect across all game modes and party situations, which means it will actually be possible to balance it fairly. If it needs another buff to its numbers (and it may), ANet will be able to make that change without worrying about making it too strong in group situations.

All it needed was a short ICD on incoming allied boons (leave self applied alone). It was stated it got nerfed because other classes had too much outgoing boon application (hello herald) Controlling that with an ICD so it fit the rate they initially expected would have been a much better change imo.

It looks likes they want necro to continue to reign supreme in their meta group slot though… which is being solo because they aren’t welcome.

(edited by hazenvirus.8154)

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Posted by: Rising Dusk.2408

Rising Dusk.2408

I’m fine with this change. It normalizes the effect across all game modes and party situations, which means it will actually be possible to balance it fairly. If it needs another buff to its numbers (and it may), ANet will be able to make that change without worrying about making it too strong in group situations.

I think it’s a fine change even if it makes the trait much less interesting, but we should not have to deal with this trait being as bad as it currently is for long before it sees either a significant buff or a full rework.

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Posted by: Sinzaku.2980

Sinzaku.2980

This is just a joke lol. Reaper has to go in melee to be effective and every class has ways to kite it. When under focus no amount of boon application on the reaper would save it since the healing/LF you got would be capped. We have no vigor for extra dodges, no blocks, no invuls. We have to soak and face tank everything and in a team setting it would make sense that our allies would help us through this limited scaling option. Now that’s gone as well. The other traits have their uses. One is for condi builds and the other is for max DPS. Not sure why this had to be touched at all.

Its like everything is balanced around 1v1 for necro but not so the case for everyone else. Why not reduce Rev buff application to allies for example? The amount of boons they output by themselves is already arguably OP but nope… Reaper is at fault cause of our sustain trait lol.

The logic….its painful

Pretty much this … What have u done Gee -.-

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-(EvE ~ EU)-

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Posted by: Flumek.9043

Flumek.9043

First game best example, melted in 2s with soldier amu.

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Posted by: Blaine Tog.8304

Blaine Tog.8304

All it needed was a short ICD on incoming allied boons (leave self applied alone). It was stated it got nerfed because other classes had too much outgoing boon application (hello herald) Controlling that with an ICD so it fit the rate they initially expected would have been a much better change imo.

It looks likes they want necro to continue to reign supreme in their meta group slot though… which is being solo because they aren’t welcome.

Even if the ICD were 1s, this would still provide very, very little healing from allies. They would have to massively overcomplicate the trait by basically writing it twice, once with bigger numbers and an ICD for allies boons and again with current numbers and no ICD for self boons. No, restricting the source to just yourself is a much more elegant solution. It allows the balance team to plan for a predictable number of boons across all game modes, which means they can give us numbers that won’t let us down when we don’t have an allied Ele, Warrior, Guardian, Herald, and boonshare Mesmer blasting us with everything they’ve got.

I think it’s a fine change even if it makes the trait much less interesting, but we should not have to deal with this trait being as bad as it currently is for long before it sees either a significant buff or a full rework.

I will admit this is a reasonable concern given how long their balance cycles typically are and how long nerfs are allowed to sit before they typically revisit them. However, I hold out hope that this will be different. We’re less than a week into HoT and they’ve already tossed out a quick balance patch with a few specific tweaks. Because they’ve changed so little and because this expansion introduced so much, they may be more willing to iterate rapidly.

I main Ele and Necro, though I have an alt of each profession at level 80.
How to Condi Reaper on a budget
Everything I say is only in reference to PvE and WvW.

(edited by Blaine Tog.8304)

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Posted by: Xaylin.1860

Xaylin.1860

To provide some context on this change:

We felt that Blighter’s Boon was providing too much survivability, especially with the amount of boon output that Heralds and Tempests can provide. (This is especially true in WvW and large PvE Zergs). I did like the interaction this trait had with your allies, but boon application from allies is too broad of a category for us to reasonably balance in all modes of the game.

We considered a lot of other possibilities for this skill including adding an ICD, limiting the procs to specific boons, limiting the number of procs from allies, but the majority of these types of fixes ended up taking agency and control away from the reaper which we felt wasn’t optimal.

Ultimately we felt this change helped to make the trait more specific to some builds rather than the best trait in all situations.

EDIT: It seems like there is some confusion about the reasons behind the change. Even though I use PvE and WvW as an example, we think it’s providing too much in all areas of the game, PvP included.

Sad but understandable.

I really liked that my allies could finally heal me while I’m in shroud. However, isn’t the interaction with allies somehow salvagable? Maybe Blighter’s Boon wasn’t the right place for it to begin with. But what about Unholy Sanctuary?

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Posted by: Oslaf Beinir.5842

Oslaf Beinir.5842

well this is disappointing…of all the other options you could have taken this was the one to kill diversity

guess dropping spite will effectively make the trait worthless. shame that list of viable competitive builds is not seeing much of an improvement at all.

so umm receiving support from allies while in shroud is okay now? can we get the option to generate enough boons outside of spite to make effective use of BB? regen boon and life steal in shroud?

really you could have just prevented the trait from receiving benefits of might fury and swiftness boons from allies since they are applied in bulks now and kept the rest of the boons received from allies functioning with BB.

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Posted by: hazenvirus.8154

hazenvirus.8154

I think I could get on board with the change if I was sure it would get another serious look soon, because while healing got a boost it took a massive hit compared to its previous level. I seem to remember a post about waiting to see where the new stuff settled, is 5 days really enough time to judge a skill broken and remove a core piece of its functionality (allied boon application).

I just tested it in Auric and the healing change seems large enough that you can do some significant self healing with proper traits, sigils, and skill usage. Maybe it will be okay, at this point I just don’t like that it doesn’t scale as well in groups, which allowed necro shroud to scale up somewhat with content. This trait is a shadow of its former self in groups.

Edit:
Also thanks Robert Gee for making Necro fun to play again. Despite my negativity here I still love the changes for HoT and the class. I would just like people to look upon necro when it joins a party and have people go, cool we have a necro. Instead of, I wish we had X class instead.

(edited by hazenvirus.8154)

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Posted by: Clairenix.2780

Clairenix.2780

this is why i didnt buy HoT heh, knew reaper was gonna be nerfed badly. GG though, only took 5 days to prove my point

Heh, you didn’t even get to play it. I haven’t even played with blighter’s boon that much, it’s not like it’s the end of the world, just less choices.

Elite specs are the bomb and you have no idea, and all you have are theory-crafts. heh.

(edited by Clairenix.2780)

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Posted by: Zetsumei.4975

Zetsumei.4975

You guys are overreacting.

They had to do this nerf because the mechanic could not be balanced since each game mode has different numbers of players. If you balance it for 5v5, it’s still broken in a WvW zerg where you can have 5x as many people buffing the reaper. If you make it balanced for zergs of 25+ people now it’s useless in every other game mode.

I’d be surprised if they nerf anything else on reaper. Nothing else has this issue.

Not necessarily, the incoming booms would realistically not result in much over 5 people and I would seriously doubt it’d go above 10. The reason for this is the aoe cap on boonshare being 5 people. Also in an organized guild raid the number almost certainly wouldn’t go above 5 with parties being pre-organized according to positioning.

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Posted by: Nyth.3492

Nyth.3492

U guys are acting as if this has Completely rendered the Reaper Useless…

That’s not really it. A lot of people realize that blighter’s boon was a bit out of control.

The problem is more that the necromancer itself really doesn’t have that many ways to make use of this trait.
Before the nerf the necromancer benefited enormously from this because classes like guardians/warriors/elementalists/revenants can toss insane quantities of boons too allies.

But necromancers don’t have that kind of boon supply. The only kind of consistent boon we can apply to ourselves is 1 stack of might every auto attack in shroud. With the healing from BB (even after the increase post change) it’ll do very very little in terms of healing.
Outside of shroud it’s even worse; because what made this trait great in WvW and PvP was mostly the LF generation. Necromancers have very little boon generation outside of shroud, especially bursty boons. The only things we really have is YAAW! and BiP.

I think the nerf was needed.
My concern is just that the effectiveness of this trait basically goes down by like 80% considering how little necromancer revolves around boon application compared to other classes. And the adjusted scaling to the heal and no change to the LF generation might be really drag this GM trait down.

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Posted by: Vlad Morbius.1759

Vlad Morbius.1759

How many boons can reaper consistently dish out Robert?And what build(s)? Enlighten me.

This is it exactly, what build are you talking about and clearly this is all about PvP. Why don’t you just separate this off from PvE and leave it alone? Too much life force regen? for what type of build? There isn’t enough LF-Gen as a Reaper to compensate for this loss!
This will make reaper shroud a wet tissue as far as survivability now.
Once again as soon as you start feeling good about your necro along comes a nerf, this is truly getting old.

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Posted by: Kulvar.1239

Kulvar.1239


Ultimately we felt this change helped to make the trait more specific to some builds rather than the best trait in all situations.

It do not work without other traits. :/
If Reaper was about self giving boon, a grandmaster trait synergising with this would be good. But that’s not the case.

Maybe merge Blighter’s Boon with Chilling Victory ?
Chilling Victory : 5s Might when hitting a chilled foe. ICD for the boon : 1s
So at least, even without Spite, there’ll be a way to benefit from Blighter’s Boon consistently.
The 25 Might cap preventing overpowering the trait when coupled with Spite.

As an other idea, with Chilling Victory removal, the trait slot could be filled with a benevolent trait. So you have the choice between selfish power and helping friends, instead of just taking the more effective trait for DPS. An example of benevolent trait:

Exorcism
You and nearby allies have reduced incoming condition duration.
-15% Incoming condition duration (9s)
Interval : 5s | Number of Targets : 5 | Radius 600 | Combat Only

An other way could be to change Warhorn #5 to give 1.5s speed every tick, so it could be used to trigger Blighter’s boon multiple times even without Spite.
So you could choose to use Spite or Warhorn to trigger the trait.
It add flexibility and untie Blighter’s Boon from Spite trait line.

An other idea to complete my previous post :
ICD for ally only, so they can help but not as much as before.
Heavy boon spammers will not overpower the trait.
(not mine, but it comes from a reddit)

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Posted by: Flumek.9043

Flumek.9043

There.

11min long, close game, i even did 2x bosskils.
As you see i cannot possible deal more damage:
-im full aoe built and i also played yolo spam aoe on node style this game, shows i tanked the 600k damage

Now,
*I merely did 400k. If this was a revenant with just hammer -no 3.5x dedicated AoE utilities – i wouldnt be surprised if it was double, 500-800k is the reve/dragonhunter normal game.

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Posted by: Cogbyrn.7283

Cogbyrn.7283

I am sorry, but I don’t trust anyone who claims they played perfectly and capped on potential damage. The screenshot doesn’t suggest to me you couldn’t have done better.

Alduin Nightsong, 80 Human Necro
“He’s like a man with a fork in a world of soup.”

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Posted by: Tricare.2946

Tricare.2946

So guardians have AH which works for both self and ally boons and the ability to squirt out boons like they just drunkenly devoured Taco Bell the night before, and it’s not op.

Put a watered down version on a necro where the only time it worked well, was with a guardian standing next to you and it becomes OP.

(edited by Tricare.2946)

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Posted by: Dristig.9678

Dristig.9678

Well if it has to be selfish switch it to Conditions Applied instead of Boons received. We have no consistent source of Boons but we don’t lack for condition application.

Blighter’s Boon

Gain life force when you apply a condition. If you are in reaper’s shroud, gain health instead.

Healing: 133
Life Force: 1%

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Posted by: Kulvar.1239

Kulvar.1239

I agree there. Reaper (and Necromancer) are not made for applying boons.
But bleed & vulnerability should be removed from triggering it as it’s easy to apply so much of them.

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Posted by: TheLastNobody.8319

TheLastNobody.8319

Well if it has to be selfish switch it to Conditions Applied instead of Boons received. We have no consistent source of Boons but we don’t lack for condition application.

Blighter’s Boon

Gain life force when you apply a condition. If you are in reaper’s shroud, gain health instead.

Healing: 133
Life Force: 1%

I actually suggested that, making a thread that is below this one. And agree 100% that this would make the trait much more functional for Condition and Power builds alike. It would fix Condi reaper’s problem with LF generation (a bad necro problem) while also helping power builds sustain themselves.

The key thing would be to make it so that applying 3 stacks of vul at once awards the same amount as giving 1 stack of vul, so then it doesn’t spiral out of control like the orginal BB did.

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Posted by: Anchoku.8142

Anchoku.8142

Team utility right now consists mostly of short range AoE dps and being a res-bot. I guess I would like to see these two uses scaled up so incoming boons make Necromancer an outperformer and resurrection becomes faster and leaving allies with higher health; perhaps even a temporary dps boost for successful res’ing.

The two “activities” do work against each other. Some extra synergy here would be nice.

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Posted by: DTATL.9641

DTATL.9641

You might as well replace this trait with something else now. Give lifesteals a buff instead.
Replace this trait with us being able to use shouts in RS.

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Posted by: Rhizo.5089

Rhizo.5089

Well if it has to be selfish switch it to Conditions Applied instead of Boons received. We have no consistent source of Boons but we don’t lack for condition application.

Blighter’s Boon

Gain life force when you apply a condition. If you are in reaper’s shroud, gain health instead.

Healing: 133
Life Force: 1%

I like this idea but the name blighters boon would not really fit.
How about giving us a chance to boon strip and then giving us life force and healing based on boons stripped?

I really don’t like the fact they gutted an entire trait without trying to reduce the amount of life force and healing first.

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Posted by: Dead.5829

Dead.5829

“Blighter’s Boon” as a name would fit even more so. While “boons” as a category in this game are basically “buffs” in another game, the definition of ‘a helpful thing caused by harming other things’ definitely fits…

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Posted by: meow one twenty.4376

meow one twenty.4376

Well if it has to be selfish switch it to Conditions Applied instead of Boons received. We have no consistent source of Boons but we don’t lack for condition application.

Blighter’s Boon

Gain life force when you apply a condition. If you are in reaper’s shroud, gain health instead.

Healing: 133
Life Force: 1%

I like this idea but the name blighters boon would not really fit.
How about giving us a chance to boon strip and then giving us life force and healing based on boons stripped?

I really don’t like the fact they gutted an entire trait without trying to reduce the amount of life force and healing first.

I was going to suggest the bolded part. A decent Health/LF gain from Corrupting boons could make a lot of builds fun. Axe, Focus, Spiteful Spirit, Chill of Death, Unholy Furvor, Signets of Suffering, Path of Corruption all become more viable than they would otherwise. Just think of that sweet, sweet Boon Corruption Heal.

Alright meow, where were we?

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Posted by: nekretaal.6485

nekretaal.6485

Well if it has to be selfish switch it to Conditions Applied instead of Boons received. We have no consistent source of Boons but we don’t lack for condition application.

Blighter’s Boon

Gain life force when you apply a condition. If you are in reaper’s shroud, gain health instead.

Healing: 133
Life Force: 1%

I actually suggested that, making a thread that is below this one. And agree 100% that this would make the trait much more functional for Condition and Power builds alike. It would fix Condi reaper’s problem with LF generation (a bad necro problem) while also helping power builds sustain themselves.

The key thing would be to make it so that applying 3 stacks of vul at once awards the same amount as giving 1 stack of vul, so then it doesn’t spiral out of control like the orginal BB did.

Absolutely not.

That’s what parasitic contagion should be.

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Posted by: nekretaal.6485

nekretaal.6485

Maybe they should have just let the Reaper receive allied heals in shroud.

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Posted by: Brokensunday.4098

Brokensunday.4098

To provide some context on this change:

We felt that Blighter’s Boon was providing too much survivability, especially with the amount of boon output that Heralds and Tempests can provide. (This is especially true in WvW and large PvE Zergs). I did like the interaction this trait had with your allies, but boon application from allies is too broad of a category for us to reasonably balance in all modes of the game.

We considered a lot of other possibilities for this skill including adding an ICD, limiting the procs to specific boons, limiting the number of procs from allies, but the majority of these types of fixes ended up taking agency and control away from the reaper which we felt wasn’t optimal.

Ultimately we felt this change helped to make the trait more specific to some builds rather than the best trait in all situations.

EDIT: It seems like there is some confusion about the reasons behind the change. Even though I use PvE and WvW as an example, we think it’s providing too much in all areas of the game, PvP included.

all I see was the other class have too much boon spam, this trait was good only in zergs like you mention. reaper have to be on mele range to do damage also we don’t have heal in shroud signets in shroud invulnerability stealth evades the list goes on and on. Necromancers are the worst team fighter in the game with almost 0 ways to support the team this trait was not over power yes good but not over power
Like bhawb.7408 say nerfing a trait because it is good in zerg sustain is an awful balance point. and everything is balanced around 1v1 for necro but not so the case for everyone else and finally when we had a way to really benefit from outside support it is taken away from us.

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Posted by: TheLastNobody.8319

TheLastNobody.8319

Maybe they should have just let the Reaper receive allied heals in shroud.

The problem is nekretaal, they probably won’t, as with Blighter’s boon it kinda showed them what could happen if we received heals in DS from classes like Ele and Druid and guardian. I agree that it would solve all this mess and put us in a great spot….but the chances of it happening are next to an all consuming black hole of ifs, ands, buts, and maybes.

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Posted by: Flumek.9043

Flumek.9043

I am sorry, but I don’t trust anyone who claims they played perfectly and capped on potential damage. The screenshot doesn’t suggest to me you couldn’t have done better.

No no i didnt mean record max

I meant a good higher end for what is achievable on average. Ill actually now take a lok at the screenshots ive been doing and ill post my statistics.

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Posted by: Cogbyrn.7283

Cogbyrn.7283

I am sorry, but I don’t trust anyone who claims they played perfectly and capped on potential damage. The screenshot doesn’t suggest to me you couldn’t have done better.

No no i didnt mean record max

I meant a good higher end for what is achievable on average. Ill actually now take a lok at the screenshots ive been doing and ill post my statistics.

Gotcha. It’s definitely interesting to see how people end matches, so long as the context is there. Thanks for sharing the data!

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Posted by: Bhawb.7408

Bhawb.7408

Well I guess the good news is I can go back to playing MM without feeling like I’m missing out on any fun builds.

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Posted by: shadowshark.7056

shadowshark.7056

All I’m going to say..
Decimate Defenses+Blighter’s Boon+Sigil of Strength=win
As long as you have at least a 40-50% crit chance and use something that can get decent vulnerability stacks. Every second you get might and life force. Then add in Reaper melee adding might as well your healing even quicker in shroud. The only thing is would like to see is since the whole elite tree is focused around ice. Why not make a trait that does something like "if attacking someone with ice on them gain life force. Could also put a cool down on it and I’d still be happy. That way ppl will get their life force inside shroud and also have quicker life force out of it.

Glad they did that nerf though since it was pretty overpowered in wvw lol.

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Posted by: Halcyon.5340

Halcyon.5340

I agree with this change. The additional healing/life force from allies was just a bonus. As a roamer, I see this as a buff. Thanks!

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Posted by: Fatalyz.7168

Fatalyz.7168

…Why not make a trait that does something like "if attacking someone with ice on them gain life force. Could also put a cool down on it and I’d still be happy. That way ppl will get their life force inside shroud and also have quicker life force out of it….

You just described a trait that we already do have, called Chilling Victory.

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Posted by: Vydahr.4285

Vydahr.4285

…Why not make a trait that does something like "if attacking someone with ice on them gain life force. Could also put a cool down on it and I’d still be happy. That way ppl will get their life force inside shroud and also have quicker life force out of it….

You just described a trait that we already do have, called Chilling Victory.

Unfortunately, Chilling Victory is incredibly underpowered and not useful at all for, well… anything, really, but especially not for powering Blighter’s Boon

Drahvienn
Sylvari Power Reaper

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Posted by: TheLastNobody.8319

TheLastNobody.8319

…Why not make a trait that does something like "if attacking someone with ice on them gain life force. Could also put a cool down on it and I’d still be happy. That way ppl will get their life force inside shroud and also have quicker life force out of it….

You just described a trait that we already do have, called Chilling Victory.

Unfortunately, Chilling Victory is incredibly underpowered and not useful at all for, well… anything, really, but especially not for powering Blighter’s Boon

All because of the stupid ICD from fear of us generating massive amounts of might. Seriously, give us a damage modifier or something else. We don’t need anymore might generation, and all it’s doing is keeping us from getting the life force from it, which is what most of us really want anyway.

A knight in shining armor is a man who never had his metal truly tested.

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Posted by: Salamander.2504

Salamander.2504

…Why not make a trait that does something like "if attacking someone with ice on them gain life force. Could also put a cool down on it and I’d still be happy. That way ppl will get their life force inside shroud and also have quicker life force out of it….

You just described a trait that we already do have, called Chilling Victory.

Unfortunately, Chilling Victory is incredibly underpowered and not useful at all for, well… anything, really, but especially not for powering Blighter’s Boon

Actually, the passive LF and health generation from the might provided by Chilling Victory adds up to quite a bit. All you have to do is cleave 3 chilled people (clones, pets, minions) 3 times (e.g., drop a nightfall with the blind—>chill curses trait) and you’ve got 9% LF. Follow that with an auto attack (from GS, staff, or axe, doesn’t matter), and you can weasel out 1-2% more depending on your chill uptime. That’s almost like dropping all of your staff marks, except the chilling victory trait gives LF/health on both of your weapon sets, and Shroud.

Unlike the spite traitline, which rewards shroud autoattacking (can you say snoozefest?), chilling victory+blighters boon rewards using your skills in (mildly) intelligent ways (nightfall, or suffer+YAAW, etc…).

(edited by Salamander.2504)

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Posted by: Lordrosicky.5813

Lordrosicky.5813

To provide some context on this change:

We felt that Blighter’s Boon was providing too much survivability, especially with the amount of boon output that Heralds and Tempests can provide. (This is especially true in WvW and large PvE Zergs). I did like the interaction this trait had with your allies, but boon application from allies is too broad of a category for us to reasonably balance in all modes of the game.

We considered a lot of other possibilities for this skill including adding an ICD, limiting the procs to specific boons, limiting the number of procs from allies, but the majority of these types of fixes ended up taking agency and control away from the reaper which we felt wasn’t optimal.

Ultimately we felt this change helped to make the trait more specific to some builds rather than the best trait in all situations.

EDIT: It seems like there is some confusion about the reasons behind the change. Even though I use PvE and WvW as an example, we think it’s providing too much in all areas of the game, PvP included.

Why not just reduce the amount of boons that other classes give then? Genuine question. I am not having a pop. You have made a great game

Character: Henry rank million/Duke Henry
Necromancer/Casual Warrior
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(edited by Lordrosicky.5813)

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Posted by: shadowshark.7056

shadowshark.7056

I forgot about chilling victory, since its usefulness is inexistent towards the buff capability of decimate defense. They should honestly swap the spots of chilling victory with shivers of dread. Oh and kinda curious. why don’t they have any shout that generate life force? I would seriously love a shout that just added life force per mob hit. But currently I generate a decent amount just with the sigil of might+Blighters Boon

Actually make the trait Augury of Death useful and make it grant life force as well as or instead of life siphon

(edited by shadowshark.7056)

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Posted by: Onerios.4962

Onerios.4962

This change to blighters boon undoes the reason I felt the trait was such a standout in the first place. Necromancer has next to no scaling defenses, and in order to prevent the class from being overbearing in 1v1 situations this results in the class being abnormally fragile in groups, blighters boon “fixed” this issue by giving us sustain scaling off of the number of people in the combat (since a significant number of classes throw out some aoe boons even without intending to). While the trait is still useful, this was not an appropriate fix since it undermines the (seemingly) original function of it, and would strongly encourage anet to find another appropriate change if you feel that the group sustain from the old incarnation was too strong.

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Posted by: Salamander.2504

Salamander.2504

I forgot about chilling victory, since its usefulness is inexistent towards the buff capability of decimate defense. They should honestly swap the spots of chilling victory with shivers of dread. Oh and kinda curious. why don’t they have any shout that generate life force? I would seriously love a shout that just added life force per mob hit. But currently I generate a decent amount just with the sigil of might+Blighters Boon

Swapping chilling victory with shivers of dread would cement the requirement of the spite traitline for blighter’s boon, which is a bad thing.

The heal shout YSIM gives LF per hit. The others shouts can only give LF when traited. For example, YAAW is a guaranteed 5% LF with blighter’s boon. If you take chilling victory, suffer+YAAW in a mid fight is up to 15% LF (if it hits 5 opponents). If you wait a half second and then cast any other shout, that’s another 5% LF (procced from chilling victory).

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Posted by: Fatalyz.7168

Fatalyz.7168

I forgot about chilling victory, since its usefulness is inexistent towards the buff capability of decimate defense. They should honestly swap the spots of chilling victory with shivers of dread. Oh and kinda curious. why don’t they have any shout that generate life force? I would seriously love a shout that just added life force per mob hit. But currently I generate a decent amount just with the sigil of might+Blighters Boon

Actually make the trait Augury of Death useful and make it grant life force as well as or instead of life siphon

Your Soul is Mine! grants Life Force on use and per target hit. You are all Weaklings! (if you have Blighter’s Boon) will grant Life Force per hit and on use. If you are using Chilling Victory, Suffer alone could proc it five times, if it doesn’t then using another shout after would. A full set of Superior runes of the Reaper will grant Chill on Shout usage, further allowing procc’ing of Chilling Victory.

I am not saying it’s fully great as is, but we have tools, just have to mix em up a bit.

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Posted by: Chuck Zitto.2367

Chuck Zitto.2367

I was looking forward to hot. I was putting in many hours on the beta weekends and giving detailed feedback here on the forums. I really enjoyed and felt my reaper was pretty much exactly where it needed to be by the end of the betas.

Hot releases. I learn I need 400 hero points of which my necro has 2 hero points because i dont pve or world completion period. I log in at the mists I pvp or i join wvw. I am never even in the pve maps. I log out. I get told by guildmate I can atleast get hero points from doing my pvp and wvw dailies. I think about logging back in but I come hit the forums to futher complain about hero points only to find my reaper builds got nerfed into uselessness. I HAVE NOT ACTUALLY PLAYED ANY HOT YET AND MIGHT NOT NOW.

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Posted by: manveruppd.7601

manveruppd.7601

I’m fairly confident that boons will still apply their effects to necromancers even if this trait is not equipped.

Except Regeneration doesn’t heal you while in Shroud… Not to mention any non-boon healing allies put out while you’re in shroud…

The problem with the change you made is that the necromancer’s only frequent boon self-application is Reaper’s Might (spite adept minor), which ONLY WORKS IN SHROUD! This means Blighter’s Boon is now significantly worse at building up life force. If you already have enough LF to stay in Shroud for awhile it’ll give you a decent amount of healing, but it’s no longer much use for getting you to the point where you can enter Shroud to begin with.

The only way to make BB generate LF now is to combine it with Chilling Victory and go with GS, which might be OK in WvW zerg fights and big pve events, but it’s not very useful in pvp due to its lack of range and mobility. Plus, not being able to pick Decimate Defences because you need that slot for CV severely limits build variety, pushing people back to Celestial amulet to get decent crit chance. Decimate Defences opened up a huge number of other amulets as viable options. If you want to be tanky you could take Soldiers instead of Celestial. If you wanted to go glass cannon you could pick Valkyrie over Marauder/Berserker. And if you wanted to go condi you could pick Carrion over Rabid. It was a choice that opened up possibilities and build variety, but now if you choose BB at GM level, you basically HAVE to take CV at master.

The thing I loved about BB up until this change was that it solved a fundamental design flaw with necromancer, which was that it’s a snowball profession: up until you have sufficient life force, you’re basically as harmful as a snowball, and you melt just as easily. Once you’ve built up a sufficient amount, you become an avalanche, and very hard to stop. This is really bad design, as it frustrates both the player, who feels impotent at the start of a fight and needs to hang around the edges being useless, hoping you don’t get jumped because you have no damage mitigation and no escapes, and for the necromancer’s opponents, who blow all their cooldowns to get the necro low only to watch them pop into a full shroud, and they have to do all that damage over again.

BB solved this problem by allowing you to build up life force quickly at the start of a fight, but with yesterday’s change it’s become significantly worse at LF generation, although it’ll still provide decent healing for you while you’re actually IN shroud. This makes it a “win more” trait: if you’ve already got enough LF, equipping this makes you even harder to kill. If you don’t have enough LF, equipping this now does pretty much nothing! Sure you might get a few sigil procs and Strength rune procs off it as well, but Reaper’s Might is still the only consistent boon self-application necros have and it’s gated behind Shroud – meaning BB is a practically a blank trait slot until you’ve built up life force through other means!

I strongly think an ICD would have been a better way to balance this. If you think that wouldn’t be enough, and that pre-buffing would still mean necromancers get to the fight with too much LF, you could also change it to only work while in combat. Making it only proc off self-application is a very limiting change that closes off build variation and exacerbates the design problems with Death Shroud, namely its preventing the necromancer from benefiting from ally healing and its frustrating snowball gameplay.

A bad necromancer always blames the corpse.

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Posted by: Silverkey.2078

Silverkey.2078

The excess with the old trait was that revenant stack short duration boons every seconds. If you played with a guardian instead, which stacks long duration boons but less regularly, this was not as strong. So what about:

“you are healed/LF regen every seconds depending on the number of unique boons on you”. The amount of healing/LF would depend on the number of boons, but not linearly (maybe by putting a cap that beyond 5 boons, it does not add more).

This way, you automatically have a cap of how much healing/LF you get (let’s say 2% LF or 500 HP per second, but it can be more or less depending on what feels reasonable).

Isn’t that the best solution???

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Posted by: Fatalyz.7168

Fatalyz.7168

I’m curious if the main concern is the over the top healing and LF gain. If that is along the lines of thinking, I’d happily sacrifice getting LF from ally boons, to just self boons, and keep the healing from ally boons while in shroud. The healing while in shroud is the most useful benefit as it allowed us to have more interaction with our allies. That or allow healing while in Shroud.

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Posted by: Cecilia.5179

Cecilia.5179

I wasn’t going to use this trait, but this nerf sucks. Maybe they could’ve halved the benefit from externally applied boons, but removing it completely just puts necro back in square one when it comes to benefiting from group support.

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