Guild Wars 2

Gruocs.3412:

I… What am I reading here?

Hear that? That’s the sound of Spoj hurtling through the crust of the earth after slamming his face down into his desk. He’ll be reaching the core in a few hours at current estimated velocity.

Also, Necros COULD be another party buff class, but that just doesn’t seem fun. Maybe it happened in GW1, but you also weren’t just a Necro in GW1. Maybe you were a Necro/Monk, or a Necro/Ele, or whatever. I don’t know what the build was, but it was an insanely different game with wildly different options.

I know other classes can bring the same condis, and I guess removing 1 boon every 1.5 or so seconds with an auto-attack is better than a Necro’s ability to strip several boons on command, but what about a unique debuff on the enemy instead of another unique party buff? Perhaps a Necro crit can put a unique Necro debuff that increases damage taken and stacks up from 2 – 10%? They have unique class buffs that can be applied to the party beyond boons, why not unique debuffs beyond conditions?

Just throwing it out as an idea, though I don’t really think it’ll happen. I just always frown at the “homogenize us to the standard” approach to balance, because then everyone feels less unique. Asymmetric balance has always been much more appealing to me, but that’s just a personal thing.

Well a new debuff which increases damage is technically in the same line as homogenizing us to the standard. We would fit in the non selfish meta that way. x)

I dont really mind how they do it. As long as we become less selfish in terms of utility, buffs or debuffs. And have a distinct advantage over other classes in one of those areas.

Spoj The Second.7680:

Well a new debuff which increases damage is technically in the same line as homogenizing us to the standard. We would fit in the non selfish meta that way. x)

I dont really mind how they do it. As long as we become less selfish in terms of utility, buffs or debuffs. And have a distinct advantage over other classes in one of those areas.

I mean yeah, it’s in the same vein of “helping the party do more damage”, but it has some flavor to it beyond “provides might/fury to the party”. Personally I’d like to see them do more with their boss fights and hopefully make it more about bringing the player and not the class.

“Bring the player not the class” only works if the classes are balanced. It won’t matter how complicated a boss fight is when one class does half the damage of another, there’s no reason to bring it.

Atherakhia.4086:

“Bring the player not the class” only works if the classes are balanced. It won’t matter how complicated a boss fight is when one class does half the damage of another, there’s no reason to bring it.

And determining how much damage someone is actually doing in the middle of a dungeon (not what their potential is on a “butcher” style mob (sorry for the WoW reference)) also only works if the game supports some sort of damage meter. Since it doesn’t, all the pug community has to go on is someone else’s sandbox test to evaluate whether a new player will pull his weight.

But at the end of the day you’re right, and bringing the player works better the more homogenized your system is, unfortunately.

You can’t judge an individual’s performance without a damage meter but you can certainly figure out what the optimal DPS is for a specific spec. DNT has gone through the trouble providing this for every class. Now sometimes doing mediocre damage is fine if your class brings enough to the group to offset your poor damage. The problem is the Necro has low damage and provides no utility to the group.

Something as simple as making Target the Weak a group buff would probably get the class invited.

Atherakhia.4086:

You can’t judge an individual’s performance without a damage meter but you can certainly figure out what the optimal DPS is for a specific spec. DNT has gone through the trouble providing this for every class. Now sometimes doing mediocre damage is fine if your class brings enough to the group to offset your poor damage. The problem is the Necro has low damage and provides no utility to the group.

Something as simple as making Target the Weak a group buff would probably get the class invited.

kitten , I’d forgotten about that trait. That’s mighty close to what I suggested before.

And I understand the idea behind optimal DPS, but if my experience with people in other MMOs means anything, it’s that maybe 1-2% are hitting the optimal DPS, and maybe 5% are near it in a real dungeon setting. The rest of the community demands comps and probably has delusions of grandeur because their class was ranked #1 in damage.

Don’t tell me that the rotations are easy, either, because that doesn’t stop people from being miles behind where they “should” be. That isn’t to say Necro doesn’t have to be balanced at the theoretical level, but I’m always amused/disappointed by how hard communities enforce comps based on theoretical bounds they aren’t even reaching themselves.

But that’s more a community debate than a class balance one. Back to the topic at hand, I’m super stoked about GS on Necro for a variety of reasons. If it’s a melee “in your face pressure” style weap, it’ll be right my alley.

Doesnt matter if most people cant pull off optimal dps all the time. They are certainly going to get closer with proper builds, compositions and attempted rotations. Which is why people create group restrictions and blacklist certain classes.

It doesnt make sense to me to say theres no point not letting in a necro just because most eles cant pull off icebow manipulations. You are still going to get a much better result with the less than optimal ele than you are with the necro. Simply because those might stacks and burst aoes are just so valuable even when not used completely correctly.

I’d like to see it as a Siphon weapon. Something that when you equip and play well, turns you into really, really tough melee/close range opponent. Chill, poison and maybe weakness. With Health/endurance leeching.

Attacks benefiting from double the effect of Vulnerability (2%-3% more damage per stack), making you beast over time.

Possibly some nasty interrupting/skill usage punishing debuff, similar to Insidious Parasite.

Maybe a minion?

They could really go wild in here, because we lack completion is many different aspects.

I’d love new minion skills, but honestly if the GS has a chill on auto attack it’ll be amazing for minion builds anyway so I’m good to go.

melee cleave weapon

There is no guarantee…..look at mesmer GS
Although good to know necro joining the GS masterrace.

Afya.5842:

melee cleave weapon

There is no guarantee…..look at mesmer GS
Although good to know necro joining the GS masterrace.

http://youtu.be/JIsgotF-AXw

I’m really hoping for a good mobility skill. Leap, dash, whatever..

Necros need to be up there with other classes when it comes to group utility but, by their nature, they cannot bring positive buffs (not very consistent with the necro’s background).

So they are left with: weakness, blinds, retaliation?, chills, and some funky traits like one foot in the grave.

This would be my dream weapon:

1: 4 attack chain.
First and second just regular attacks, third is area weakness (many stacks) while your character spins with the blade (rooted), the fourth is a blast finisher that deals strong damage and stuns, as the necro crashes everything with a mighty blow (also roots the necro). Knowing when to execute this whole combo is crucial for the necro, as being rooted with attack chain 3 and 4 can mean death in some circumstances.

2: after successfully pulling out the 4 attack chain, you can use this skill to drain life from any stunned foe. Doesn’t work with non stunned foes (an issue against defiance? don’t know if they are immune to stuns) Has to be balanced as to not turn it into a lackluster skill like dagger 2.

3: teleport/avoid skill: tap to make the necro leap forward or backwards. Double tap to make the necro leap, and then teleport. Do it while moving and it teleports in the direction it was moving. Do it while being still, and it backs off (like the dodge works). Can be chained with skill 4

4: half a spin that causes area weakness (less stacks than the attack chain)

5: your pick! im just lazy. A blind? a circle of minions? (raises a minion for any foe that crosses or dies within the circle) a Retaliate similar to axe #3? area chill (we have a trait for that, so… probably not needed)?

The idea would be to have the gs as the main source of weakness. It would also be the most effective weapon against groups, but not single targets. Ideally, you would want to cast locust swarm, swap to GS, engage with #3+#4, drop the WoS, do a whole #1+#2+#5 (the last one being situational) rotation, and then swap back to dagger/wh for dps, and move back to GS on cooldown for more weakness.

There you have it, anet, and I work for free!

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Order_of_Pain
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Order_of_the_Vampire

Both of these utilities would help Necro immensely, and are still in theme with the Necromancer. I really hope we get something like orders.

Im kind of hoping for that necro themed reflect the toxic krait have.

Man I hoped for the sword so I would have a reason to buy Stygian Blade..

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

I think of two handed weapons as more damaging than one handed weapons, since they are in almost every case, except for maybe Ele scepter, Warrior axe and Ranger sword. Which makes me think it will be very sub-par because Necro dagger is already insanely damaging.. If it were stronger than our dagger AA it’d be pretty OP so it’s either going to be the same or less damaging than our dagger. Which means we still won’t be ideal for PvE and greatsword will not be an ideal weapon for power build in PvP/WvW. This doesn’t mean I think it will be a terrible weapon and I’m sure it will have it’s utility, I’m just saying dagger AA is already very good, I can’t see how greatsword could replace it.

Same way that GS replaces warrior axe, Guardian sword, and in rare cases Ranger sword, better non-AA skills, better mobility, better AoE/cleave.

As long as it isnt like rangers auto-attack I’m sure it will be fine. I’d like to see an ability to behead someone who is already downed, executioner style, for instant death on there but thats just me. Mobility would be a good reason to use this weapon. Other than that I dont really care. :P

AnathemicOne.1684:

Spoj The Second.7680:

Ive always found greatswords the most fun, fluid and impactful weapons on the other classes. I mean they are all very mobile weapons except for mesmers. They all have nice burst skills. And they have a range of defensive and offensive skills including control on some of them. Hopefully we get something along those lines as currently none of our weapons fills that kind of feel or range of abilities. I love daggers but its pretty boring just auto attacking. So im looking forward to seeing what the greatsword brings.

Warrior GS 2 != mobility in any way shape or form. Neither does Guardian GS 2. The only mobility-themed GS is Ranger and that was still meh to me (might mostly attribute said meh to the fact I really don’t like pets being required for the class).

because warrior GS 3 and 5 is not enough mobility? so you want 100% mobility on a weapon and 0% damage? seems legit, bringing up Guardian and Warrior GS2. Your points are bad

AnathemicOne.1684:

Spoj The Second.7680:

My point is argueing about the use of abilities on such easy content which is entirely dependant on things out of the individuals control is a pretty pointless. You can play completely uselessly and still suceed at those events. Its not an arguement. I dont even know why im argueing about this.

You said those weapons werent mobile. They clearly are as they have mobility skills. Which can be used for map traveling or combat situations such as evading attacks, gap closing or combat mobility in difficult fights (kiting to recover endurance etc). Whether you see a use or not in whatever content you play is irrelevant. They are mobile weapons and you cant deny that.

But I am correct in saying they are not mobile in group PvE scenarios, again you are not using any of those mobility skills during these situations. Just because they are there doesn’t make it mobile if you’re not using said skills. This is why I find GS playstyle boring because in group PvE scenarios you rarely use the kitten skills and are essentially spamming AA and one skill 99% of the time.

And to bring it back to the OP. Yes I’m specifically referring to group PvE, I don’t give a kitten about WvW because Necros are fine in WvW and arguable sPvP. If necro is going to get a GS and operate similarly to how other GS’s work (ie spamming 1-2 skills on the weapon skillbar in group PvE combat (yes group PvE combat, the only type of situation where necros need a vast improvement in)), then I would be very dissapointed and seems like ANet is just throwing the GS at necros as a fix to their problems in group PvE instead of meaningful class changes.

If you are sitting in a group PvE situation spamming AA in a group situation, why would you need to be mobile? And if you needed to be mobile in those “group pve” situations you are talking about…why wouldn’t a warrior use GS3 or 5? I dont think anyone understands your points or argument.

Star.8401:

AnathemicOne.1684:

Spoj The Second.7680:

Ive always found greatswords the most fun, fluid and impactful weapons on the other classes. I mean they are all very mobile weapons except for mesmers. They all have nice burst skills. And they have a range of defensive and offensive skills including control on some of them. Hopefully we get something along those lines as currently none of our weapons fills that kind of feel or range of abilities. I love daggers but its pretty boring just auto attacking. So im looking forward to seeing what the greatsword brings.

Warrior GS 2 != mobility in any way shape or form. Neither does Guardian GS 2. The only mobility-themed GS is Ranger and that was still meh to me (might mostly attribute said meh to the fact I really don’t like pets being required for the class).

because warrior GS 3 and 5 is not enough mobility? so you want 100% mobility on a weapon and 0% damage? seems legit, bringing up Guardian and Warrior GS2. Your points are bad

Not to mention that guardian’s GS 2 allows you to move to chase your target unlike other similar burst moves(PW, HB, WD, ZD), making it in fact mobile.