Guild Wars 2

I’ve received this question for a long time now: “How do i own in WvW with my necromancer ?”

Well… here it is… i hope it will help

IIRC that’s a racial skill in your elite slot → useless vid just there to collect some clicks.

nachtnebel.9168:

IIRC that’s a racial skill in your elite slot -> useless vid just there to collect some clicks.

My first youtube tutorial i put up 2 weeks ago is already at 4000 views, apparently i am making good content.
This was a video request i received from my players and if you would give it a chance you would see it may not be as useless as you think.
Listen to what i say in the video… or don’t… it’s up to you.

Liked the vid

Nachtnebel i wonder, did you watch it?

PS. Nemesis, do you play starcraft 2 ?

Nice Video(s). By the way, you speak and write English better than 90% of people who have it as their first language.

I just finished watching all the videos. I really like how you put the strengths of each build in perspective to the weaknesses. I.E. burst vs sustained.

I also found your hybrid spec interesting. The way you justified how to spend your trait points and make up your deficits through armor was quite brilliant. It made me rethink how i play my Necromancer currently in Spvp( Dagger/focus Staff) and how little synergy my build has.

I think i will by trying a build similar to your Hybrid for spvp tomorrow and I am kind of excited.

The biggest problem that I have had with my Necro is deciding on what way is best to go Power or Conditions. I think the blend of pressure and direct dps is way the necro needs to do damage. Having to rely too much one way or the other debilitates the other and decreases the flexibility of the class.

Thanks for opening my eyes and encouraging me to think more rationally.

A nice effort, however for future videos I noticed some mistakes you should take into account. I hope you don’t find this too rude.

Firstly you claim Wells are no good as you have to be outside walls to use them. In actual fact, anyone with a serious offensive Well spec in WvW will have the ability that gives them a range of 900 (equal to the scepter). That’s long enough to throw down at foes, or up at attackers from below.

Next I notice you claim Epidemic spreads conditions to all foes within a 1,200 radius. It’s actually all foes within a 600 radius, but you can trigger it from a target up to 1,200. A bit of a mix up there.

Also, currently the traits of 20% longer bleeding ad 33% longer conditions from scepter doesn’t stack, it’s bugged for now.

Also on your traits you take siphoning health on crits – I’m not sure if you’ve noticed but each crit will net you a grand total of 33 health stolen, which is next to nothing when you have 20k+ health. Ten crits and you’ve healed about 1.5% of your total health. In short, very low healing over a long time.

If you want something from the first box of Blood Magic, particularly in a build focused on helping defend towers with others, the Transfusion box (Life Transfer heals around 2.6k in a 600 radius) is far better. You could also have taken Death Magic for larger AoE circles with the staff – something it seems this spec so focused around Fear could use – on that note, in the same Death Magic first box is a trait to lower the cooldown of Reaper’s Mark giving your AoE fear a 32 second cooldown rather than 40, which is more beneficial than a 2 second cooldown to Death Shroud’s Fear that you took in another box.

Overall it’s helpful to new players, even if I disagree with some points. Hope this helps.

Hm, actually I take back the comments of the 20% Bleed and 33% longer scepter conditions not stacking, it seems I was mistaken. For some reason I can’t edit the above post either.

Nemesis, I just want to thank you for taking the time to make these tutorials. Very clear, concise information explained very professionally.

Karther.7481:

A nice effort, however for future videos I noticed some mistakes you should take into account. I hope you don’t find this too rude.

Firstly you claim Wells are no good as you have to be outside walls to use them. In actual fact, anyone with a serious offensive Well spec in WvW will have the ability that gives them a range of 900 (equal to the scepter). That’s long enough to throw down at foes, or up at attackers from below.

Next I notice you claim Epidemic spreads conditions to all foes within a 1,200 radius. It’s actually all foes within a 600 radius, but you can trigger it from a target up to 1,200. A bit of a mix up there.

Also, currently the traits of 20% longer bleeding ad 33% longer conditions from scepter doesn’t stack, it’s bugged for now.

Also on your traits you take siphoning health on crits – I’m not sure if you’ve noticed but each crit will net you a grand total of 33 health stolen, which is next to nothing when you have 20k+ health. Ten crits and you’ve healed about 1.5% of your total health. In short, very low healing over a long time.

If you want something from the first box of Blood Magic, particularly in a build focused on helping defend towers with others, the Transfusion box (Life Transfer heals around 2.6k in a 600 radius) is far better. You could also have taken Death Magic for larger AoE circles with the staff – something it seems this spec so focused around Fear could use – on that note, in the same Death Magic first box is a trait to lower the cooldown of Reaper’s Mark giving your AoE fear a 32 second cooldown rather than 40, which is more beneficial than a 2 second cooldown to Death Shroud’s Fear that you took in another box.

Overall it’s helpful to new players, even if I disagree with some points. Hope this helps.

It’s not rude at all… i’ve said somewhere down that “this is my opinion on”….

I prefer to have a 15 second CD on epidemic rather then have to deal with the wells CD, and yes they can be rather effective at range but only one of the wells deal any kind of good damage, and even with a full bursting spec (which you can’t obtain if you want them to have range) they do up to 3.700 damage in the tooltip, real damage may go up to 7600… the thing is… the enemy can DODGE a well much easier then they can keep curing conditions… that keep stacking… and aoe stacking… and aoe stacking.

If the range wells build works better for you… that’s just fine, it doesn’t for me… and in my opinion it’s a bit less effective in a real scenario.

The main damage source of the well build is “Well of Suffering” which at 3,244 Attack, 40% critical chance, 68% critical damage does “Damage(5x):3030”, on a 45 second CD. Take that vs “Blood is Power” (30 second CD) which at 1200 condition damage, 90% condition duration does about ~14000 damage over ~55 seconds, now spread that with epidemic (at 1200 range, radius of 600 > well radious, on a 15 second CD).
Not counting the fact that you have 2 more AOE bleeds 1 from scepter and 1 from dagger offhand… and stacking… and stacking

Again… this is just my opinion based on everything i’ve seen and tested…

Yes… the regen is small but in that build there are no other viable options left for the 10 points remaining, and it’s better then nothing… a siege takes a long time… so 30 hp regen over a period of 5-10 minutes. I rather have that then not have that.

People now have 2 options they can try out. Thank you for your input

PS: yes… range 1200, radius 600… i’ve said in the comments on my video… sometimes my english gets all messed up, i’ve noticed in the video i’ve said “attackers go outside to defend, and you need to support them”. Yes i know… my apologizes.

Thanks for the vid. Very thoughtful use of strategic principles.

Karther.7481:

Hm, actually I take back the comments of the 20% Bleed and 33% longer scepter conditions not stacking, it seems I was mistaken. For some reason I can’t edit the above post either.

In my upcoming SPvP tutorials i will explain some hidden mechanics for bleeding duration… yeah i’ve noticed it for a while now.

Dariroch.6482:

Nice Video(s). By the way, you speak and write English better than 90% of people who have it as their first language.

I just finished watching all the videos. I really like how you put the strengths of each build in perspective to the weaknesses. I.E. burst vs sustained.

I also found your hybrid spec interesting. The way you justified how to spend your trait points and make up your deficits through armor was quite brilliant. It made me rethink how i play my Necromancer currently in Spvp( Dagger/focus Staff) and how little synergy my build has.

I think i will by trying a build similar to your Hybrid for spvp tomorrow and I am kind of excited.

The biggest problem that I have had with my Necro is deciding on what way is best to go Power or Conditions. I think the blend of pressure and direct dps is way the necro needs to do damage. Having to rely too much one way or the other debilitates the other and decreases the flexibility of the class.

Thanks for opening my eyes and encouraging me to think more rationally.

Thank you ! This is exactly the reason i keep making these videos… a comment like yours early in the morning almost puts in in a good mood.
Thank you for your positive feedback.

Soon… some SPvP tutorials… gathering some more footage first.

I agree Epidemic is a must for any kind of offensive and quite a few more defensive WvW Necro builds, even those builds with Wells, but I do think Well’s themselves are underrated. The numbers you state there are actually from sPvP I believe, because in full exotic gear in the real game you can pull much higher critical numbers, upwards of 90% crit damage and perhaps 60% crit chance with it. Unfortunately you’re right, people can move out of them fairly easily, but when dropped by a group at a ram or at a choke point they can be deadly. You can also add a snare element (Chilled) to the blinding circle to keep people within your Wells more effectively.

In the case of the crit siphoning, I wonder if you have considered putting those ten points into Spite? That’s an additional 10% Condition duration and bigger heal than siphoning when something dies – the actual box traits you can select are a bit weak in general, but the Retaliation one from Death Shroud is nice considering when you pop Death Shroud you’re usually under attack to grant a lot of reflection, and you only have a 5 sec CD on your Death Shroud.

Karther.7481:

I agree Epidemic is a must for any kind of offensive and quite a few more defensive WvW Necro builds, even those builds with Wells, but I do think Well’s themselves are underrated. The numbers you state there are actually from sPvP I believe, because in full exotic gear in the real game you can pull much higher critical numbers, upwards of 90% crit damage and perhaps 60% crit chance with it. Unfortunately you’re right, people can move out of them fairly easily, but when dropped by a group at a ram or at a choke point they can be deadly. You can also add a snare element (Chilled) to the blinding circle to keep people within your Wells more effectively.

In the case of the crit siphoning, I wonder if you have considered putting those ten points into Spite? That’s an additional 10% Condition duration and bigger heal than siphoning when something dies – the actual box traits you can select are a bit weak in general, but the Retaliation one from Death Shroud is nice considering when you pop Death Shroud you’re usually under attack to grant a lot of reflection, and you only have a 5 sec CD on your Death Shroud.

Yes… i was comparing SPvP well build stats with condition build stats… should be equal.
And yes… your build is a viable option, just not my preference, because in my opinion it’s just a little bit less efficient because of the CD.

im trying to make one of my friends to play a necro for WvWvW, u know whats deadly? 2 necros spamming epidemic, man i can i magine 3 necros doing that it would be beautiful..

I watched this vid last night. Some good information in here, especially the first 10 minutes. This basically outlined my entire reason for rolling a necro. Sheer wall domination and cover fire for offensive seiges = win. If you want to wreck people 1v1 then go to sPvP. WvW is a different game.

Added a little example to my theory
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFl2OS6Pq0M&feature=plcp

Bit slow start but otherwise ok.
Though i feel it had misinformation, like that you would need to jump at people to get your wells to work when there is trait to make them targetable making them very good in www. You can save yourself and your group from zerg with them with right time right place position.. or then to keep enemies away from siege weapons for a moment.

fear can be handy but unless you have plenty people stacking it its just doesn’t cut it imho. sure if you have clan then you might get people cooperate but otherwise it rarely keep people off long enough.

Yes Nismu, this has been discussed further up with Karther.7481, you are correct, but it is my opinion that the wells even at range are less efficient. Yes… you can have some form of effectiveness once every 40 seconds. Only one well has any real damage, and also wells are dodgeable, epidemic is not.

Because of the combat psychology it is my opinion that condition build (and everything that goes with it… sustained damage, epidemic, high survivability, fear) will do you much better… it’s much more frustrating for a team of attackers to constantly get damaged, constantly get conditioned on them… then to have to dodge some wells near the ram every now and then…

The pressure applied on their siege effort is what made all of them at one point decide “it’s not worth it” and to leave… or… because of that pressure to be unable to break the gate in time, and we could hold on until reinforcements arrive. Wells just have to high CD for this scenario and because they are dodgeable i fear they are not as efficient.

See my example video if you like, and tell me if you think wells would have done better…

edit: if you go for a wells build what do you use as a main hand ? Damaging well(s) use burst damage type and benefit from critical strike chance and critical strike damage. Axe and dagger don’t have that high range…
I may be missing something here, i just woke up, let me know what it is if so.

Just to add my opinion in, although I don’t mean to turn this into yet another power vs condition thread, is that although you can move out of wells you can just easily have someone throw out an aoe condition cure and remove everything your epidemic is doing. Also a note about dodging wells means that you have high control over where people stand – they either get smashed, or move where you want them to move.

You also have two damaging wells. One has lower damage by about 1k, but it removes buffs and turns them into conditions each hit – that’s pretty tasty. As for weapons, you’d use a staff for ranged. I have never used power myself in WvW due to lack of gear, but I imagine sieges would be a cycle between charging Life Force with fairly low staff damage, Death Shroud, Wells and Lich Form. It will be very bursty rather than sustained like Epidemic, and less reliant on others and it doesn’t suffer from the condition cures that everyone has. Each has a strength and weakness.

I would have to agree condition build are better than power/crit builds for a Necromancer in WvW overall, but by that line of thought I could simply say that Elementalists are better than Necromancers for a player in WvW.

nice vid really loved it. i do have to disagree with your view point on owning players over making a difference in the war wouldn’t make a difference. remember war is not all about defense. you also need good offense to fight a war.

Sure they are usable only every 40 secs or so, but using them right time can turn the battle around. Specially when enemy tries attack and they have to go from small area (like gate) so you can force them be in the wells.

with well of darkness (plus chill on blind trait) and well of corrupttion you can slow down enemy zerg and thus hinder its effectiveness greatly. of course it isnt iwin button and you need people to help you to deal the zerg but it certainly helps. and leaving third utility open for depending situation for epidemic or well of suffering

of course in open field wells are pretty useless as there is way to go around. but luckily you can easily switch skills and traits to suite for each situation,

personally i think scepter/dagger & staff is clearly best choice for www due plenty of aoe, good range and being able to throw conditions back. Not really that much different from condition master truly.

@ Alamir and Nismu, i understand your point of view, i am not saying the well build does nothing in WvW.
I am trying to say that from my perspective and experience it is less effective then the condition – epidemic build.
Yes… one good placed well may turn the outcome of that fight… you might even kill 6 players at the gates if they don’t dodge. But then 5 more will instantly take their place.
Then you wait 40 seconds before you can do that again… or you poke them with your staff’s first skill, which doesn’t do that much, because you won’t have range on axe or dagger, and even if you… and you can land a full channeling skill from axe, you have done damage to one single player.

Full power build Well of Suffering + Well of Corruption don’t come close to Blood is Power + Epidemic in terms of damage, wells are dodgeable… conditions are removable… Every player has 2 dodges… not many have 2 condition removals on them in WvW. Two dodges regenerate faster then 2 condition removals, and even if not… we look again at CD, 40 seconds vs 15 seconds… + range on scepter aoe bleed, range on dagger aoe bleed, fear… fear…

Defending a keep is where you can make a player, you saw i was able to hold out the siege of a guard tower vs 15-20 people with just 3 people (there were 1-2 more players that came at one point, but they went outside and died instantly).

Attacking a strategic point is more about strategy, organization… preparation, having the right tools. There is no build vs walls or gates.
Also… have you taken into consideration that wells, yes… ground targeted… you can not ground target a piece of ground that is in LOS AKA the walls of a citadel. Yes… you can place the well ON the wall, but a player has to step one millimeter back, and he denies all the damage he could have taken every 40 seconds.
Yes… epidemic-ing the walls may get dispelled… every 15 seconds ? What happens if there are 2… necromancers… 3 ? 4 ? 567 ?
Then again… 1000 necromancers placing wells ON the walls still get denied by moving back half a step.

This is my take on WvW builds and the reasoning behind them.
I also respect your opinion and the fact that you might see my point of view.