Guild Wars 2

Why IN THE WORLD – would you remove the chill damage that was granted by the trait?! As it stands there isn’t nearly enough damaging conditions – so what now? Does this mean we have to spec out of the Elite Specialization of Reaper COMPLETELY just to pick up Dhuumfire? For old shroud condition damage through burning? Like before disco died?

I can stand a nerf, but this is completely abysmal to the way that the condimancer plays in the raid setting, chill is essential to controlling the adds during the Gorseval fight, but now you’re actually punished for taking chill traits, as it’s a Net DPS loss. Thus, who is honestly going to favor the slow control effect over the substantial loss in damage?

This is like absurdly stupid – just going to end this rant, right here.

Oh, yeah and thanks for making Deathly Chill add what? 8 seconds of a condition I ALREADY had in my kitten nal? Lulwhut, you might as well have made it add burning that way this change wouldn’t have been nearly as awful as it stands and not just a solid, middle-finger to every Condimancer worth their salt.

Would have been fine if they tried changing it to a stacking condition that wasn’t bleeding, but they went with the one condition that makes it pretty bad.

this is madness. another bleed is the easiest to cleanse thing ever and it does 103 dmg with my wanderer’s amulet. That dmg is a joke, and Anet needs to realize that it’s important to have multiple conditions to stack so the enemy cznt just cleanse the entire bleed stack.

They nerf reapers so hard and yet they leave condimesmers untouched, scrappers hardly lose surv. What a joke this is

Plus being something they built as a Reaper foundation, makes it an odd change.

The bleed damage is so low and insignificant – I’m not certain stacking enough chill skills/traits is worth bringing it up to worth using.

Big shame

Lol, I know the first thing i’m doing is dropping reaper and picking up Dhuumfire now. Old School shroud here we come!

Reapers were in the really unfortunately state that turret engis were in way back – namely that they just rolled over the average player. In higher-end matches, namely diamond/legendary, having any more than one necro on a team was a huge liability. But, as it stood, like 90% of the playerbase saw reapers as this unstoppable death machine that was in itself the perfect team-comp.

The nerf was inevitable, but waaaayyy too heavy-handed, imo. The worst part is not only were reapers’ offensive conditions bonked, but their only source of stability was too. And, what’s worse, reaper will still be able to destroy most players due to it maintaining its boon corruption capabilities.

But wells got their cooldown reduced slightly :^)

Steelstickfig.9146:

But wells got their cooldown reduced slightly :^)

Anet’s through process for 1-2 years now has been:

Is Necromancer weak?
If yes, lower well CDs by 5s.
Still weak?
Wait 6 months and try again.

Steelstickfig.9146:

Reapers were in the really unfortunately state that turret engis were in way back – namely that they just rolled over the average player. In higher-end matches, namely diamond/legendary, having any more than one necro on a team was a huge liability. But, as it stood, like 90% of the playerbase saw reapers as this unstoppable death machine that was in itself the perfect team-comp.

The nerf was inevitable, but waaaayyy too heavy-handed, imo. The worst part is not only were reapers’ offensive conditions bonked, but their only source of stability was too. And, what’s worse, reaper will still be able to destroy most players due to it maintaining its boon corruption capabilities.

But wells got their cooldown reduced slightly :^)

This isn’t even about the PvP implications, the PvE players now have to pay to swallow this bone that was what intended for PvP tryhards? That’s what make it even more god awful.

They also nerfed all chill applications fo a reaper, so what si the point in removing the damage AND the duration. Did they want necros ot never be used ever again? as they’re succeeding.

THE STUPIDEST THING, is that I can just pick up Dhuumfire now and LITERALLY there is little difference minus the added bonuses of having chill’s uptime and skill reduction time.

Ahhahahahahaha. Ah what a joke. Patch was pretty decent but god they still have one of the most pathetic excuses for a balance team I’ve ever seen. Knew this would happen with all the reaper hate flying around.

Yeah, I wasn’t even mad about all the other nerfs, but this might have been the nail in the coffin for me with this profession, and I loved my necro to death (pun intended) RIP Condimancer that I invested endless amounts of time in to achieve full vipers.

This change is just so much kitten , just like infinite amounts of kitten . Who in their right mind thought this was the ‘RIGHT’ way to balance the reaper?

I was ecstatic when necros wer finally viable in pvp when HOT came out……guess i shouldve known it wont last.

Now the only option for condi is to join the massive influx of condimesmers nxt season.

Roxhemar.6039:

This change is just so much kitten , just like infinite amounts of kitten . Who in their right mind thought this was the ‘RIGHT’ way to balance the reaper?

You think ANET has a right mind? Please, you’re giving em too much credit.

TheLastNobody.8319:

Roxhemar.6039:

This change is just so much kitten , just like infinite amounts of kitten . Who in their right mind thought this was the ‘RIGHT’ way to balance the reaper?

You think ANET has a right mind? Please, you’re giving em too much credit.

Well, it seems Dhuumfire is superior and old school Condimancer is back, i’ve dropped out of my elite specialization for the purposes of PvE.

gg, this is the epitome of incompetency. I’m also assuming the corrosive poison cloud/soul spiral combo is nerfed too. Are they trying to force people away from playing reaper? Moreover, I guess they are encouraging the zerker meta. What were they thinking?

Steelstickfig.9146:

Reapers were in the really unfortunately state that turret engis were in way back – namely that they just rolled over the average player. In higher-end matches, namely diamond/legendary, having any more than one necro on a team was a huge liability. But, as it stood, like 90% of the playerbase saw reapers as this unstoppable death machine that was in itself the perfect team-comp.

A bit like how DH is strong in lower tiers and look what happened to them. Not effective at high tiers yet the forums are full of QQ on DH. I have to admit i was expecting a reduction in chill damage on that GM trait, i wasnt expecting it to be completely changed. (i dont play necro btw)

Spartacus.3192:

Steelstickfig.9146:

Reapers were in the really unfortunately state that turret engis were in way back – namely that they just rolled over the average player. In higher-end matches, namely diamond/legendary, having any more than one necro on a team was a huge liability. But, as it stood, like 90% of the playerbase saw reapers as this unstoppable death machine that was in itself the perfect team-comp.

A bit like how DH is strong in lower tiers and look what happened to them. Not effective at high tiers yet the forums are full of QQ on DH. I have to admit i was expecting a reduction in chill damage on that GM trait, i wasnt expecting it to be completely changed. (i dont play necro btw)

And honestly, that would have made WAY more sense to just nerf the damage, if they really wanted to which – honestly I’m NOT EVEN SURE WHY?! But completely removing the damage makes the actual – supposed elite specialization a piece of garbage for anyone who runs a condition build.

I never got to the reaper until after the 1st nerf to it, so I never got to see its power in its short days of glory. I briefly tried speccing for as much chill and chill damage as possible and was underwhelmed by it. So, although I still take the reaper trait line and often use the GS, I stopped caring about chill altogether. This latest nerf to chill simply reinforces my previous decision about it.

We will find the way of playing this class as we did before, but it has to be said: shame on you Anet, shame on you.

The truth is that chill damage was not OP. Reaper was likely one of the best balanced classes in the game. It was strong against certain classes because of the other classes imbalance, not reaper.

What we have now is a GM trait which stacks bleed, no matter if there is ICD or not. Maybe you should remember the reason you give damage to chill condition. Maybe you should remember the hard time necros/reapers have to stack a decent amount of bleed. Maybe you should remember that chill damage give some constant level of damage condition.

Again, shame on you Anet.

This is just what pvp whine results in: people complained about chilling doing 3 things, too much chill application ,too much chill duration and too much stability. So now we are back to being the slowest profession with the least out of combat utility (like portals) and weak in combat presence.

Yeah, it’s pretty sad..1 stack of bleeding applied for 8 seconds after applying chill ? Yep, that’s a dead trait now.

As I said in the other thread, removing a core design foundation of an Elite, erodes trust towards the design principles for future Elites.

Brighteluden.2974:

Yeah, it’s pretty sad..1 stack of bleeding applied for 8 seconds after applying chill ? Yep, that’s a dead trait now.

It’s worse then a dead trait, it’s literally become the new Dhuumfire while Dhuumfire has become the new Deathly Chills like what the absolute kittenery Anet?

Brighteluden.2974:

Yeah, it’s pretty sad..1 stack of bleeding applied for 8 seconds after applying chill ? Yep, that’s a dead trait now.

So now reaper has only dead grantmasters? /necrobalance

Guys, relax.
This change really isn’t as much of a nerf as you make it out to be. In fact, if you actually put some effort into your skill rotation you will be able to surpass the damage of the old trait.
Also, nothing is easier to cleanse now. Chilled is still there, the damage part just moved to a different condition, one that is applied a lot more frequently now. So if anything, you get better coverage for your overall condition pressure.

And let’s be honest, the strongest part about chilled wasn’t the damage anyway. It’s the movement impairment and the tripled cooldowns, which still works the same.

flow.6043:

Guys, relax.
This change really isn’t as much of a nerf as you make it out to be. In fact, if you actually put some effort into your skill rotation you will be able to surpass the damage of the old trait.
Also, nothing is easier to cleanse now. Chilled is still there, the damage part just moved to a different condition, one that is applied a lot more frequently now. So if anything, you get better coverage for your overall condition pressure.

And let’s be honest, the strongest part about chilled wasn’t the damage anyway. It’s the movement impairment and the tripled cooldowns, which still works the same.

You have ZERO idea of the scope of this change. “Put some effort into your skill rotation” What? You want me to spam 1 more and apply more bleeding? Yeah, no thanks I dropped reaper and picked up Dhuumfire already and that last part you mentioned ONLY APPLIES IN PvP – I don’t know how many people Anet thinks ACTUALLY PvP, but for me? I could give a rats kitten .

This change is DETRIMENTAL to the way Condimancer played in the raid setting – need I emphasis the raid part?

flow.6043:

Guys, relax.
This change really isn’t as much of a nerf as you make it out to be. In fact, if you actually put some effort into your skill rotation you will be able to surpass the damage of the old trait.
Also, nothing is easier to cleanse now. Chilled is still there, the damage part just moved to a different condition, one that is applied a lot more frequently now. So if anything, you get better coverage for your overall condition pressure.

And let’s be honest, the strongest part about chilled wasn’t the damage anyway. It’s the movement impairment and the tripled cooldowns, which still works the same.

The chilled damage was a constant 700-800 damage per second. It only needed to be applied once, bleeds fall off and if cleansed you have to start stacking all over again. PvE, meh I think you’re right. PvP, lol, nobody is going to pick this trait. This trait at most is adept tier now, no, adept minor.

flow.6043:

And let’s be honest, the strongest part about chilled wasn’t the damage anyway. It’s the movement impairment and the tripled cooldowns, which still works the same.

Eh necros had access to chill before, but it was never feared because chill by itself isn’t too detrimental. It was only when damage over time was tagged onto chill that people started dying and complaining about chill.

So I’d say this was a very big nerf, along with stability uptime nerf and reduction in chill all around.

flow.6043:

Also, nothing is easier to cleanse now.

This just isn’t true. If the bleed stack is removed, your damage is gone completely, whereas before they needed to remove both chill and bleeds, and keeping chill off was fairly difficult which resulted in at least a decent way to sustain DPS. Condition damage builds that work in PvP settings have some mix of high burst condition damage and sustained threat through multiple sources of condition damage. Engis, for example, have traditionally done well (and out performed Necromancers pretty consistently) because their condition damage is spread out over nearly every damaging condition in the game on quick applications, making it very difficult to fully remove their threat.

flow.6043:

And let’s be honest, the strongest part about chilled wasn’t the damage anyway. It’s the movement impairment and the tripled cooldowns, which still works the same.

The entire point of the trait was to give old-burning like damage. We’ve always had issues with keeping up a constant condition damage threat due to all our damage being lumped onto low intensity high duration bleeds, and they replaced the one thing that meaningfully fixed this problem with a low intensity high duration bleed.

Did it need a nerf? Maybe, and if it did, its absolutely fine that it gets nerfed. But either hit its damage directly, or move it to one of the many damaging conditions we don’t have good access to. Like torment, remember that one condition we were supposed to get access to?

You’re complaining that Reaper doesn’t have the same brain dead ez mode gameplay as before, that’s all this is.
It’s a healthy change for the game overall, and if you don’t just spam your skills randomly the new trait will actually have the potential to surpass the old one.

Roxhemar.6039:

You have ZERO idea of the scope of this change. “Put some effort into your skill rotation” What? You want me to spam 1 more and apply more bleeding? Yeah, no thanks I dropped reaper and picked up Dhuumfire already

Yes, by “Put some effort into your skill rotation” I clearly meant “spam 1 more” -_-

flow.6043:

It’s a healthy change for the game overall

It’s not a healthy change for the game overall. GW2 =\= pvp. Specialisation thematics are being erased is not good for the game.

I would be okay with this if they hotfixed it to poison or torment and gave us a fair amount of stacks of those so that we could actually hurt things, but the way it is, Reaper just lost most of what made it worthwhile.

Bhawb.7408:

The entire point of the trait was to give old-burning like damage. We’ve always had issues with keeping up a constant condition damage threat due to all our damage being lumped onto low intensity high duration bleeds, and they replaced the one thing that meaningfully fixed this problem with a low intensity high duration bleed.

This right here can’t be ignored, and honestly was one of the best things about Deathly Chill that set it apart from other conditions. It had a great identity as being one of the few sources of condition damage that was easy to apply and easy to maintain with minimal dedication.

Was this easy as hell to maintain? Of course, and that’s why it was appealing. In my case, it allowed for the creation of condition builds that weren’t bound to scepter, since Dhuumfire’s burning and static chill damage was enough.

And, bleeding sucks. It has always sucked. It’s simple, boring, and having all of our pvp damage frontloaded onto it is an issue. If this new Deathly Chill has to give some sort of new condition – which is fine – I’d much prefer if it was a less common one like torment or poison, which both fit the debilitating nature of chill rather than lame bleeding.

Also, can we stop the pvp vs. pve bickering? A nerf to necro is a nerf no matter where it hits hardest.

While a lot of people don’t like the change, and I think they could’ve made it better, like nerfing other aspects of condi reaper or making it a different condition than bleed, I still think it was a necessary nerf. The power creep HoT brought has really hindered pvp imo. All of the elite specs needed things nerfed to various degrees as they are all so much better than the core counterparts which everyone can agree with. And reaper was easily debatable as a top 3 profession in it so I’m not surprised by how we got hit harder than others.

People have to keep in mind what also get nerfed or hit, it’s not like reaper is totally useless and everything stayed the same as it was. Except mesmer and rev. Idk how they avoided so many nerfs.

And we really do need seperate balancing for the game modes. And while I do feel bad for PvE necros if it does hurt them there, we all know Anet balances it off PvP so you shouldn’t be taken off guard by it.

L Step.8659:

Except mesmer and rev. Idk how they avoided so many nerfs.

This made me upsetti spaghetti moreso than anything else.

On the bright side, all the reaper fotm rerollers will default back to something else, now.

This is just a disaster anyway you look at it, PvP really needs to get over itself and stop affecting the PvE crowd.

L Step.8659:

While a lot of people don’t like the change, and I think they could’ve made it better, like nerfing other aspects of condi reaper or making it a different condition than bleed, I still think it was a necessary nerf. The power creep HoT brought has really hindered pvp imo. All of the elite specs needed things nerfed to various degrees as they are all so much better than the core counterparts which everyone can agree with. And reaper was easily debatable as a top 3 profession in it so I’m not surprised by how we got hit harder than others.

People have to keep in mind what also get nerfed or hit, it’s not like reaper is totally useless and everything stayed the same as it was. Except mesmer and rev. Idk how they avoided so many nerfs.

And we really do need seperate balancing for the game modes. And while I do feel bad for PvE necros if it does hurt them there, we all know Anet balances it off PvP so you shouldn’t be taken off guard by it.

If you think you can balce core and elites to the same lvl and have meaningfull elites then you are wrong. More meaningfull choices→better choices→stronger.

Roxhemar.6039:

This is just a disaster anyway you look at it, PvP really needs to get over itself and stop affecting the PvE crowd.

I 100% agree with this. Why they reverted the PVP/PVE split is beyond me. They keep nerfing my DH traps and now true shot (which to be fair needed some nerf in pvp) but its messing up my pve fun.

Tim.6450:

L Step.8659:

While a lot of people don’t like the change, and I think they could’ve made it better, like nerfing other aspects of condi reaper or making it a different condition than bleed, I still think it was a necessary nerf. The power creep HoT brought has really hindered pvp imo. All of the elite specs needed things nerfed to various degrees as they are all so much better than the core counterparts which everyone can agree with. And reaper was easily debatable as a top 3 profession in it so I’m not surprised by how we got hit harder than others.

People have to keep in mind what also get nerfed or hit, it’s not like reaper is totally useless and everything stayed the same as it was. Except mesmer and rev. Idk how they avoided so many nerfs.

And we really do need seperate balancing for the game modes. And while I do feel bad for PvE necros if it does hurt them there, we all know Anet balances it off PvP so you shouldn’t be taken off guard by it.

If you think you can balce core and elites to the same lvl and have meaningfull elites then you are wrong. More meaningfull choices->better choices->stronger.

Well I still think our core mechanic line (Soul Reaping) and other professions’ should be turned into an elite spec as well so it can be brought in line with reaper and future elite specs. It’s silly if you think elite specs should be default better than core specs as it just means each elite spec we get will be better and if it makes the core spec obsolete what’s to stop them from making each previous elite spec obsolete? The point is to have build diversity not have 1 mandatory trait line that’s superior in every build.

Roxhemar.6039:

flow.6043:

Guys, relax.
This change really isn’t as much of a nerf as you make it out to be. In fact, if you actually put some effort into your skill rotation you will be able to surpass the damage of the old trait.
Also, nothing is easier to cleanse now. Chilled is still there, the damage part just moved to a different condition, one that is applied a lot more frequently now. So if anything, you get better coverage for your overall condition pressure.

And let’s be honest, the strongest part about chilled wasn’t the damage anyway. It’s the movement impairment and the tripled cooldowns, which still works the same.

You have ZERO idea of the scope of this change. “Put some effort into your skill rotation” What? You want me to spam 1 more and apply more bleeding? Yeah, no thanks I dropped reaper and picked up Dhuumfire already and that last part you mentioned ONLY APPLIES IN PvP – I don’t know how many people Anet thinks ACTUALLY PvP, but for me? I could give a rats kitten .

This change is DETRIMENTAL to the way Condimancer played in the raid setting – need I emphasis the raid part?

You clearly need some chill.

Afya.5842:

Roxhemar.6039:

flow.6043:

Guys, relax.
This change really isn’t as much of a nerf as you make it out to be. In fact, if you actually put some effort into your skill rotation you will be able to surpass the damage of the old trait.
Also, nothing is easier to cleanse now. Chilled is still there, the damage part just moved to a different condition, one that is applied a lot more frequently now. So if anything, you get better coverage for your overall condition pressure.

And let’s be honest, the strongest part about chilled wasn’t the damage anyway. It’s the movement impairment and the tripled cooldowns, which still works the same.

You have ZERO idea of the scope of this change. “Put some effort into your skill rotation” What? You want me to spam 1 more and apply more bleeding? Yeah, no thanks I dropped reaper and picked up Dhuumfire already and that last part you mentioned ONLY APPLIES IN PvP – I don’t know how many people Anet thinks ACTUALLY PvP, but for me? I could give a rats kitten .

This change is DETRIMENTAL to the way Condimancer played in the raid setting – need I emphasis the raid part?

You clearly need some chill.

Why? I’m annoyed and for what was otherwise a decent patch Engineers and Necromancer’s had to suck up the sap this patch for what reasons? PvP? That’s a lame reason, a super lame reason.

And any PvE condimancer worth their salt would be mad about this change, forget mad utterally decimated.

Cecilia.5179:

Reaper just lost most of what made it worthwhile.

Hyperbole : /

Roxhemar.6039:

This is just a disaster anyway you look at it, PvP really needs to get over itself and stop affecting the PvE crowd.

PvP in this game is like watching a unicorn on the toilet after it’s eaten 1 week old Taco Bell. A giant rainbow colored kittenstorm. Why they keep balancing exclusively around it is beyond me.

L Step.8659:

Tim.6450:

L Step.8659:

While a lot of people don’t like the change, and I think they could’ve made it better, like nerfing other aspects of condi reaper or making it a different condition than bleed, I still think it was a necessary nerf. The power creep HoT brought has really hindered pvp imo. All of the elite specs needed things nerfed to various degrees as they are all so much better than the core counterparts which everyone can agree with. And reaper was easily debatable as a top 3 profession in it so I’m not surprised by how we got hit harder than others.

People have to keep in mind what also get nerfed or hit, it’s not like reaper is totally useless and everything stayed the same as it was. Except mesmer and rev. Idk how they avoided so many nerfs.

And we really do need seperate balancing for the game modes. And while I do feel bad for PvE necros if it does hurt them there, we all know Anet balances it off PvP so you shouldn’t be taken off guard by it.

If you think you can balce core and elites to the same lvl and have meaningfull elites then you are wrong. More meaningfull choices->better choices->stronger.

Well I still think our core mechanic line (Soul Reaping) and other professions’ should be turned into an elite spec as well so it can be brought in line with reaper and future elite specs. It’s silly if you think elite specs should be default better than core specs as it just means each elite spec we get will be better and if it makes the core spec obsolete what’s to stop them from making each previous elite spec obsolete? The point is to have build diversity not have 1 mandatory trait line that’s superior in every build.

So now every elite spec that has mechanics that are enhanced in the ‘elited’ core spec will have to be addressed in the new elite spec leaving less space for novelty. On top of that in order to create a balnce between the two elites the core elite will have to be made so powerfull (since it still is less diverse then the elite) that you remove any build diversity in the core. Great job now we have 2 viable specs instead of one->progress. And what about certain traits for core skills?
I’m not saying elite pecs should be overpowered but with current design, they simply can’t be meaningfull and balanced at the same time.

Dead.5829:

Cecilia.5179:

Reaper just lost most of what made it worthwhile.

Hyperbole : /

It’s actually not, reaper is designed for it’s chill and melee. The chill is being nerfed directly and the melee style is being nerfed by the stability loss.

Nah, the thing that made Reaper worthwhile is having a shroud that actually feels like a finished project. Even if this kills chill builds, I’d still use Reaper because core necromancer is god awful to use.

I don’t why people are so offended by this change. The damage from Chill was NOT that good to begin with. That’s not to say what they changed it to was better though …

Obtena.7952:

I don’t why people are so offended by this change. The damage from Chill was NOT that good to begin with. That’s not to say what they changed it to was better though …

The whole rotation feels so less natural now, unless you main Necromancer you would not understand this in a PvE setting. Deathly Chill was nice because you could swing it with Dagger 4 swarm for a beautiful combo and get some damage out of doing so. Now? it’s like you apply a blind and a short duration of chill only to lose time you could have been damaging, it’s like when Blizzard removed Rend from warriors in World of Warcraft – it breaks the flow.