Guild Wars 2

Allot of us feel that death shroud is lacking. Some skills work great for power, others great for condi but don’t work all that well for both. Then there is dark path which is just kinda bad. Sure it has its uses but to be honest there really isn’t much synergy when using death shroud. So I’m going to suggest some changes to each of the skills to make them more synergistic and universally useful for any necromancer build.

Starting with life blast. This should be baseline piercing. Its cast time should also be reduced to 3/4 a second and damage slightly reduced to compensate. It should also be a projectile finisher with 100% chance as well so we can have a way to combo with other players while in death shroud. Even with the combo chance its still a rather slow projectile so these changes shouldn’t cause a real problem in terms of balance. But it does make this more fluid for players. Considering dhuumfire is going to be almost an auto include for any condi build this will also help there.

Next we have dark path. Make this a ground target skill with a 240 radius. Set a dark portal at target location and teleport there in a second. Have this skill with a clear area where the necromancer will go but have it ground target. This will give players the ability to see the area where necromancers are going and avoid its damage by dodging or moving away from it but be unable to stop the necromancer’s travel with body blocks. Since its also a dark path there should be a trail between the necromancer’s current location and the teleport spot. Those caught in the trail should be chilled for 1 second and bleed for 5 seconds, as though a ghost was passing through them. its full damage, bleed and chill should still happen at the teleport point. This would be an excellent skill for necromancers to be able to catch up to people as well as disengage from combat. it would still be rather slow compared to other profession abilities. You should also have to stay in Death shroud while this skill is waiting to trigger otherwise it fails. This will mean that you will burn some death shroud to use this so you could just pop death shroud, use it and exit to conserve a bit more.

Doom. No changes. This skill is fine, don’t see a real need to change it at all.

Life transfer should either have one of two things happen for it. Either its passive life force increase or completely stop life force from draining while its channeling. One of these two, otherwise its okay. This should be a defensive skill since its damage isn’t anything to write home about.

Tainted shackles. Now this one is interesting to me. I really like this skill and feel it should have a second part to it. Tainted shackles should have a second skill attached to it called something like Ghostly grasp. The second skill should allow you to activate the shackles and pull all foes to you like the Guardian’s greatsword.

I personally think this could help offset some of the predictability that necromancer’s suffer from when going into death shroud while at the same time giving really good options for any type of build that would want to use death shroud as well as give people major incentive to stay in death shroud.

What do you guys think? How might you change things?

1- Make the AA vary depending on your Equiped weapon LB would be the default for staff and have an improved version of each weapon’s AA replace it for dagger axe and scepter.
2- Allow signets and life steal to affect us in Deathshroud and enable minion sequence skills and Wells in DS, make spectrals have different effects in deathshrould making spectral walk a ground targeted teleport, Spectral armor 2 seconds of immunity, spectral wall a circle like ring of warding, and spectral grasp a multitarget pull centered on the necro (think binding blades or into the void).
3- cut LF in half and eliminate the passive drain
4- enable healing skills in DS at 50% efficiency.

Vizardlorde.8243:

1- Make the AA vary depending on your Equiped weapon LB would be the default for staff and have an improved version of each weapon’s AA replace it for dagger axe and scepter.
2- Allow signets and life steal to affect us in Deathshroud and enable minion sequence skills and Wells in DS, make spectrals have different effects in deathshrould making spectral walk a ground targeted teleport, Spectral armor 2 seconds of immunity, spectral wall a circle like ring of warding, and spectral grasp a multitarget pull centered on the necro (think binding blades or into the void).
3- cut LF in half and eliminate the passive drain
4- enable healing skills in DS at 50% efficiency.

I was talking more about the basic skills themselves, but okay. For number 2 though. Wouldn’t it just be easier to say to allow utility in death shroud?

1. Allow healing in DS.
2. Allow utilities in DS.
3. Reduce total life in DS. (A semi-decent amount)
4. Increase LF gained in combat.
5. Outside of combat slowly gravitate to 25% when out of combat.
6. Remove the tait that increases LF from kills (it’s terrible). Make it something better.
7. With less DS HP pools, offer some evasive defensives, which to me doesn’t sound out of the realm of shadow and death magic.

1. Allow all healing in DS, including self heal.
2. Allow all utilities in DS.
3. Provide OOC LF generation up to a % (25% would be fine for me).
4. Increase LF generation across the board on weapons, bringing them more in line with each other.
5. Decrease utility-based LF generation.
6. Reduce the total amount of LF you can generate.
7. Rebalance healing as necessary now that we can use it in DS.
8. Remove the cooldown on DS, and remove all of the “when entering DS” traits.

I know the last one will never happen, but I’m really tired of all the “well look how much up-time on X Necros can get with a 7 second DS CD”. Just cut all of the cancer out, and make it so Necros can’t re-enter unless they’re at 15 – 20% LF, forcing them to re-gen if they push their reserve too much.

Plus, everyone already calls it a second life bar. It would make more sense if it actually acted like one.

(This is all my dream-state, I don’t actually believe most of this will happen, as the re-balancing effort would probably be too much for them.)

I would allow healing and lifeforce gain to occur in DS. Would not change anything else specifically to base DS. However I would add more defensive traits and skills to the base class. Block/invuln/reflect in DS or vigor on crit for example.

1.All healing

2.Life Blast: 100% projectile finisher (it has all the other traits of a projectile. and as part of our special class skills, 100% is justified.). Slightly faster attack speed (tone down the dmg per hit, if you must), 1 stack of bleed (nothing too massive. just so that condimancers can at least somewhat keep up their stacks while in DS. actually, why not torment?)

3.Doom: fine as it is.

4.Dark Path: split it into 2 skills:

First one marks the target for five seconds. This subskill only checks at the beginning of the cast animation if the enemy is in range. after that, it doesnt matter anymore, it will track down the target. Freezes the enemy
Second part: can be activated to jump to the target, freeze and bleed it.

5.Life transfer: i would add some condition to this aswell. Since DS is the same for every type of necro, all of its skills should be more or less equally useful to condition and power specs.

6.Tainted shackles: I’d change it to something similar to Dota 2’s Dream Coil. It no longer immobilises enemies at the end of the duration. Instead, it will immobilise anyone who tries to leave the 600 AoE around the necromancer during the duration. This way it seems more effective in my opinion.

7.The amount of life force a necromancer starts with needs to be narrowed down. 0% or 100% can make a big difference. For example, if it’s less than 20%, it will slowly build up to 20% out of combat. If it’s greater than 80%, it will slowly degenerate to 80%.
Either that or you pick one single value, like 40% or something.

8.The ‘LF per hit’ mechanic on spectral skills no longer has a general ICD, but one for each enemy. Like Lotus poison.

9.While better Siphoning (with enough aoe-hit attacks), healing in DS and the spectral skill’s ‘LF when hit’ might already provide a lot of sustain against multiple opponents, it might not be enough. If thats the case, then the maximum amount of life force you lose each second should be capped. Dunno what a good value for that might be. 20%?

10.Utility skills: im not so sure about this one. Cant say if we really should have access to them or not. If we get utilities in DS, it would be cool if they have additional effects in there. While a special effect for every single skill might be too much, there could be a special effect for each utility type. For example ‘whenever a spectral skill is activated in DS, get (half) a second of blur’.

11.Where to take power away: With all this being implemented, necromancer and death shroud could turn out way too powerful. If it needs to be nerfed then, i think the DS HP pool should be looked at.

Of course a lot of these things like the special effects for utilities or the capped LF loss could make for some interesting traits aswell.

Fix basic DS? Allow use of all utility/heal/elite skills, allow all forms of self-healing including runes, sigils, and traits.

ronpierce.2760:

1. Allow healing in DS.
2. Allow utilities in DS.
3. Reduce total life in DS. (A semi-decent amount)
4. Increase LF gained in combat.
5. Outside of combat slowly gravitate to 25% when out of combat.
6. Remove the tait that increases LF from kills (it’s terrible). Make it something better.
7. With less DS HP pools, offer some evasive defensives, which to me doesn’t sound out of the realm of shadow and death magic.

Overall I think this is a good list of things I’d like to see happen with the basic (non-elite spec) form of DS.

If i had to change DeathShroud… I’d probably start to reform almost all the trait that bind Death Shroud in it’s sorry shape.

For me Death Shroud need to be able to evolve with each elite specialization. Traits like unyelding blast prevent this kind of evolution because it force life blast in it’s shape into DS. This kind of trait don’t allow any kind of shroudless elite spec and thus it prevent any change of mind about new defensive means on the necromancer.

Well… Ideas pop and run away at an amazing rate. So I think I’ll say thing differently. I think, life force should be the core mechanism of the Necromancer and Death shroud should be just the main utility (of the core profession) that make the link between life force and the core profession. Which mean that traits should revolve around Life force use/generation and not around Deathshroud.

I feel that the skills in DS need to be able to stand on their own as well as combo with each other much like other skills and weapons will similar effects. Being able to use tainted chains as a pull would be a great start to combo into dark path. With this suggestion you could activate the shackles, then lay down a dark path portal and pull your foes to that portal, chilling and bleeding them. And if you are using path of corruption, converting their boons. Its combos like this we are really missing out on with Death shroud. Nothing too fancy, but nice to have.

1) make healing skills like other players skills and regen affect the HP pool also when in DS state.

2) Give a utility in DS like the one you’re using, but with half duration/effect, just to be good to do something like clean conditions, obtain protect, etc.

Or even make the DS only a phantom armor that adsorb 50% of direct and condition damage and give us more ways to obtain Life Force

1. healthbar gone. New bar only counts down. Similar to warrior’s, but doesn’t fade between fights. Fades faster when damage is taken.
2. DS skillbar gone.
3. Deathshroud: while cloaked in deathshroud you gain stability and take X% less damage.
3. Death Perception: while cloaked in deathshroud you have an addition 50% chance to do critical hits.
4. Dumbfire: while cloaked in deathshroud skills that inflict bleeding also inflict burning
5. Terror: while cloaked in deathshroud your #3 skill inflicts fear (10 second cooldown) fear does damage, lasts longer yada yada…

or

Terror: when entering deathshroud nearby enemies will flee in terror (fear 1 second) fear does damage, lasts longer yada yada…

I’d be on cloud 9.

Edit: New skill: Sacrifice Life: Sacrifice 10% of your health to gain 10% of your life force

ronpierce.2760:

3. Reduce total life in DS. (A semi-decent amount)
4. Increase LF gained in combat.
5. Outside of combat slowly gravitate to 25% when out of combat.
6. Remove the tait that increases LF from kills (it’s terrible). Make it something better.
7. With less DS HP pools, offer some evasive defensives, which to me doesn’t sound out of the realm of shadow and death magic.

These but i would also do the following

Replace Death Shroud with the following F1 – F4keys

F1: Attack varies depending on your equipped weapon, but consumes a static amount of life force on use.
As a bonus you take X% less damage while casting this ability.

F2: Shadow Armor (Channeled ability, Consumes X life force per second to absorb all incoming attacks. Has a trait that grants protection to allies when channeled but at an increased life force cost.
CD TBD. (think low)

F3: Dark Path. Consume X life force to teleport to the target area, when you arive you chill (4 seconds) & poison (2 stacks for 5 seconds) nearby foes.
600 range, 180 radius effect (trait can increase to 900 range and 300 radius effect)
15 second CD

F4: Doom. Consume X life force to inflict fear (2 seconds) & torment (3 stacks for 5 seconds) on your enemy.
Range 700, 20 second CD.

5: Transfusion. (Channeled ability), Consume X life force per second to heal nearby allies while damaging & bleeding (1 stack for 4 seconds per pulse) nearby enemies.
Channel time of 3 seconds, pulses 2 times per second. CD 25-35 seconds.

After this necro becomes fairly easy to balance, just adjust traits & life force generation accordingly.

How would I fix it?

Remove all skills from DS. It shouldn’t be a stance, it’s a defense mechanic. You would activate to absorb hits or empower your next attacks, depending on how you trait it.

This takes DS completely out of the balance equation, and makes the class focus on it’s weapon and utility skills. DS would become a reaction ability used at the right moment for a specific purpose, and not just another crappy skill bar.

Example : T2 Soul Reaping Traits. 4 choices to customize your DS.
Default: Absorb X damage. Gain 1x Stability (10s). Cancelled when LF depleted. 10s CD
Trait 1: Cast Enfeeble when your enter DS. (not the panzy nerfed version we have now either)
Trait 2: Gain retaliation for 5s when you enter DS.
Trait 3: Apply Torment to nearby foes when you enter DS. Fear (1s) the next foe that strikes you while in DS (10s CD).
Trait 4: Gain 1 stack of Might (20s) per second while in DS. Lose 10% of LF per stack gained.

Life force gain and spending would have to be rebalanced ofc. I’d say it should have something like 5k HP (toughness applied after) and take about 20 secs to refill the LF bar. That gives it about the same EHP as a heal skill. No need for it to drain while shrouded now.

(I’ve posted this idea before, but threads keep dying…sigh.)

Here’s an idea for a complete overhaul. The goal is to make deathshroud feed into your playstyle instead of interrupting it.

TLDR: Move DS skills to F2-F4. Keep weapon and utility bars in DS. Available DS skills are based on your three spec/trait lines.

Deathshroud needs to be central to the profession, regardless of build – like an ele’s attunements or a mesmer’s shatters – but that isn’t the case right now.

• Move the DS attack skills to F2-F4. These skills will still only be usable when you are in DS, but they will be in addition to your full normal skill bar.
• Your three DS skills will come from your chosen spec lines. Each line donates a DS skill tailor fit to that line’s playstyle.
• Existing DS skills would be carried over as well as possible, but possibly with some splits and mergers of functionality, and a lot of reworking and balancing. They should synergize as much as possible with their spec lines’ traits and related abilities.

For example, putting Soul Reaping in your second specialization slot could give you a reworked Life Transfer on F3, that counts as a spectral skill and has a high chance to crit on enemies with fear. Traits for Life Transfer could make it heal allies and inflict vulnerability, on top of any spectral skill traits you have.

I think shouts will be powerfull or smth and that Orders will cost Lifeforce instead of Health (Gw1)

(F1) Death Shroud
Main Function: Secondary Health Pool
Visual: Current Shadow Visual
Applies Vulnerability to Foes and Retaliation to Self and Allies upon activation
Depreciation: 4% Life Force per second

(F2) Spectral Shroud
Main Function: Stealth
Visual: Ethereal / Stealth
Applies Chill to Foes and Protection to Self and Allies upon activation
Depreciation: 8% Life Force per second
- Benefits from spectral traits

(F3) Vampiric Shroud
Main Function: Life Leech
Visual: Surrounded by Green Mist
Applies Poison to Foes and Regeneration to Self and Allies upon activation
Depreciation: 6% Life Force per second
- Benefits from life stealing traits

(F4) Demonic Shroud
Main Function: Stacking Might
Visual: Similar to GW1 Bone Horror
Applies Cripple to Foes and Might to Allies upon activation
Depreciation: 4% Life Force per second
- Benefits from minion traits

Readjust our traits to suit such a system:
I still think our traits need a bit of work, these adjustments would just be to suit such a system

Gluttony

I: Speed of Shadows (now applies to all Shrouds)
II: Soul Marks
III: Spectral Mastery

Last Gasp

IV: Master of Terror
V: Vital Persistence
VI: Death Perception (now applies to all Shrouds)

Strength of Undeath

VII: [Shroud conditions stack on nearby foes every second]
VIII: [Shroud boons stack on nearby allies every second]
IX: Foot in the Grave (now applies to all Shrouds)

Navi.1032:

(F2) Spectral Shroud
Main Function: Stealth
Visual: Ethereal / Stealth
Applies Chill to Foes and Protection to Self and Allies upon activation
Depreciation: 8% Life Force per second
- Benefits from spectral traits

This is really powerful. Way too powerful. But I wanted to comment on it because stealth on a necro and chill foes when you’re around is really ghostly and a freaking cool concept. It’d feel so good. But at the same time, I can’t support something like that for the base Death shroud. For a specialization down the road? Sure, why not? Guardians got traps. Why not stealth for us on a specialization. As it stands though, this is an insanely powerful skill you’re suggestion.

Toned down quite a bit, make it a trait and part of a future specialization? Why not?

Other then the obvious "let us heal and use the rest of our skills in DS’,

A trait to give aegis on entering DS would be a very useful defensive tool, that actually requires well timed use – mindless using it won’t give much benefit, but timing it to block key skills like stuns, backstabs etc would increase our survivibility a lot.

Any other defensive buffs that scale (evades/invulns etc etc) instead of, or addition to the above would also be nice.

Reduce the clunkiness of life blast by reducing cast and after cast times. Reduce the damage to keep the dps more or less the same, but it’s currently really clumbersome to use.

Also fix how often skills like life blast and dark path miscast. I mean, Jesus Christ, the amount of time where I try to dark path someone in front of me, and it just instantly goes to 4s CD for no discernible reason is extremely frustrating considering it is DPS, chill and movement (and with a GM trait dedicated to this single skill, boon corrupt).

War Mourner.5168:

Other then the obvious "let us heal and use the rest of our skills in DS’,

A trait to give aegis on entering DS would be a very useful defensive tool, that actually requires well timed use – mindless using it won’t give much benefit, but timing it to block key skills like stuns, backstabs etc would increase our survivibility a lot.

Any other defensive buffs that scale (evades/invulns etc etc) instead of, or addition to the above would also be nice.

Reduce the clunkiness of life blast by reducing cast and after cast times. Reduce the damage to keep the dps more or less the same, but it’s currently really clumbersome to use.

Also fix how often skills like life blast and dark path miscast. I mean, Jesus Christ, the amount of time where I try to dark path someone in front of me, and it just instantly goes to 4s CD for no discernible reason is extremely frustrating considering it is DPS, chill and movement (and with a GM trait dedicated to this single skill, boon corrupt).

Its going to be a Master trait in the future. But yeah I get what you’re saying. Personally, I think dark path should be a ground target aoe skill with a tell. Not like blink or something similar where its instant, but something strong enough to use both offensively and defensively.

Currently, death shroud skills are a weapon swap, sure, but they’re bad skills to be using together. They don’t work well together at all which is a real shame. Dark path is especially problematic seeing how clunky and slow it is and it isn’t supportive to either power builds or Condi builds.

I feel it needs to be ground targeted. Perhaps make it 2 skills in one. A ground targeted aoe dark field or something that bleeds, chills and deals damage that lasts for 5 seconds and you can activate it at any point to travel to that location to bleed and chill once again. This could make it both support us as an escape or as a means for ranged damage. A dual function skill. Combine with other suggestions I’ve made like life blast being a projectile finisher as well as giving tainted shackles a pull activation and suddenly we open up a lot of options to a necromancer to do quite a bit.

Predictability and lack of defense in death shroud is one of its biggest weaknesses. And Death shroud is a “weapon swap” we have to charge. It should have worth while skills. Not these collection of mishmash of skills that don’t function well together at all.

Lily.1935:

Navi.1032:

(F2) Spectral Shroud
Main Function: Stealth
Visual: Ethereal / Stealth
Applies Chill to Foes and Protection to Self and Allies upon activation
Depreciation: 8% Life Force per second
- Benefits from spectral traits

This is really powerful. Way too powerful. But I wanted to comment on it because stealth on a necro and chill foes when you’re around is really ghostly and a freaking cool concept. It’d feel so good. But at the same time, I can’t support something like that for the base Death shroud. For a specialization down the road? Sure, why not? Guardians got traps. Why not stealth for us on a specialization. As it stands though, this is an insanely powerful skill you’re suggestion.

Toned down quite a bit, make it a trait and part of a future specialization? Why not?

Hmm it could be too powerful but that could be tweaked with a cooldown and/or bumping up the Life Force depreciation.

At 8% depreciation that’s 12.5 continuous seconds of stealth and the conditions/boons only apply on activation (unless otherwise traited).

I also forgot to mention in my post that my idea would no longer have specific movesets within a ‘Shroud’ it would just give you the additional benefits on top of your base character.

Remove HP bar retain DS skills as F1-5 costing LF as upkeep skills(no CD,no cancelling other skills).Active Sustain would be properly upgraded and distributed through the rest of the profession,traits requiring entry other exit of DS would be tied to skills,trait that provide benefits in DS like Unholy Sanctuary would heal based on LF used creating another purpose to LF Deathly Perception would increase crit chance of F1-5,traits that do the same as a signet’s passive would need actual creativity put in them.

Use it like an actual resource.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/A-good-necromancer/first#post5026965

Erasmus.1624:

Use it like an actual resource.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/A-good-necromancer/first#post5026965

Sounds interesting, but TLDR. Do you have a summary?

1) Cut LF pool by 30%
2) Increases amount of LF gained significantly, make it scale with number of enemies better on all weapons except maybe dagger.
3) Allow all healing in DS
4) Use utilities in DS
5) switch weapons in DS
6) add condition removal to DS

Yeah, as a resource it would actually be interesting.

Imagine for a moment, a channel skill that drains your LF as it runs, but the LF it drains translates directly to extra damage/conditions/whatever.

Basically if it could be used as a mana bar as well as 2nd health bar, it would be neat.

100% endurance regen while in DS, master trait? pulsing protection while in DS?(opposite of the new pulsed vuln), maybe 4secs prot to you and nearby allies on 9sec cd?

Gulesave.5073:

Do you have a summary?

It’s hard to just do a tldr because of the many mechanics involved, but:

Above are just the stock skills (no traits).

• Life force gets capped at 10k.
• Loads of skills (even some weapon skills) in that huge TLDR packet have conditional bonuses based on life force thresholds or consume life force in order to activate.
• Many traits and skills are now available which help contribute to life force building.
• Several traits also directly influence the usage of the DS skills by outright changing those skills into something else instead of just tacking free bonuses onto them (i.e. Dhuumfire removes the chain “return teleport” skill from Dark Path, causes it to inflict burning, but also increases its life force cost). A few traits are proven to already outright change the functionality of skills. The proper way to implement traits would be to just take that to the next level.

Things become more about clutch openings, positioning, timing and anticipation; marked by punishing, direct damage and NOT by soft/hard CC or limited effects which tick passively over time without player maintenance

Gulesave.5073:

Erasmus.1624:

Use it like an actual resource.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/A-good-necromancer/first#post5026965

Sounds interesting, but TLDR. Do you have a summary?

Just from the look of it it’s nerf everywhere + a dependance on a “mana” pool. I’m affraid that reducing dagger auto damage by 50% won’t be very popular…

Dadnir.5038:

Just from the look of it it’s nerf everywhere + a dependance on a “mana” pool. I’m affraid that reducing dagger auto damage by 50% won’t be very popular…

It’s all done within a great deal of context. The changes are made within the scope of fast, soft-counter and anticipatory play; not the kind of combat paradigm that gw2 has in place. Besides, autoattacks aren’t a skillful or interesting way to kill anyone, and yet they at least deserve to pose a certain threat. With the above necromancer design, damage is instead focused into big hitter skills that have cues or animations while players are given a few tools in order to help those abilities land more consistently during narrow windows of opportunity. If you read the thing, you would have noticed substantial and consistent damage floating throughout a lot of weapon sets, just not necessarily in the 1 slot anymore.

I had other things written up (mainly for Engineer, Elementalist and Mesmer), but I’ve since discontinued them (“since” being like 4 months ago or something). Those classes all took big hits to things like invulnerability periods, instant damage, passive triggers and autoattack effectiveness. Most autoattacks just became low-damage, “conditional trigger” styled abilities instead of just raw filler that a player does after having gone through a shallow rotation of effortless abilities. The “conditional trigger” thing is easy to fill for necromancer since it has life force to gain, but it was a little more complicated trying to make something for the Engineer or Elementalist without getting too samey. Mesmer was a whole redesign, so it was actually easier to make fun 1 and 2 weapon skills for that one.

• Damage taken while in DS does NOT spill into your actual healthpool
• Permanent stability while in DS (could be a trait)
• Allow healing in DS
• Allow access to all utility skills while in DS
• Full skillbar in DS, with skills that can be switched out, just like a regular skill bar.
• Allow weapon swapping in DS

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

• Damage taken while in DS does NOT spill into your actual healthpool

Your suggestion is in the same vein as “gain aegis when you enter death shroud.” It’s not a worthwhile idea. You get to take a single big packet of direct damage without impact on your HP once every 10 seconds. It’s not enough to stop people from autoattacking you to death or generally going through a rotation, it’s not going to stop passive procs like Incendiary Powder, and yet it’s just enough to be frustrating to a single random person each time it’s up just because of the relatively short interval. Stop perpetuating a terrible system.

Although, to be fair, I also do miss necromancer immunity to fall damage and PvE OHKOs. It was honestly cute and interesting.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

• Permanent stability while in DS (could be a trait) [Passive, instant hard counter]
• Allow healing in DS [More opportunity for selfish, passive healing]
• Allow access to all utility skills while in DS [Making DS even more generic by turning it into just another weapon set]
• Full skillbar in DS, with skills that can be switched out, just like a regular skill bar. [See above]

Why not just play a warrior?

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

• Allow weapon swapping in DS

I guess that’s a fine quality-of-life change, but I know that the only reason anyone would want to swap weapons while in DS is to gain the benefits of instant, passive sigil bonuses given that weapon swapping is already instant and there is no real problem of not having enough time to swap to a different weapon set after exiting from DS. While masked as a quality-of-life update, such a suggestion would just further make a mess of gw2 combat.

First of all, thanks for reading and engaging in discussion.

Erasmus.1624:

Your suggestion is in the same vein as “gain aegis when you enter death shroud.” It’s not a worthwhile idea. You get to take a single big packet of damage without impact on your HP once every 10 seconds. It’s not enough to stop people from autoattacking you to death or generally going through a rotation, it’s not going to stop passive procs like Incendiary Powder, and yet it’s just enough to be frustrating to a single random person each time it’s up just because of the relatively short interval. Stop perpetuating a terrible system.

Its not supposed to make you immune against auto attacks from players. This is only to block one really powerful attack, from a boss for example. It is also not supposed to fix our defense issues, or lack of invulnerability. I like to have this option, because it adds more strategic life force management in PVE against powerful opponents.

I do agree that we need more to deal with focused fire as well. Is DS the place to fix this? Perhaps. I’d love to hear suggestions.

Erasmus.1624:

• Permanent stability while in DS (could be a trait) [Passive, instant hard counter]

The idea here is that DS is supposed to be our big defense. Yet it is overshadowed by nearly every defensive skill on other classes that grants stability. We should not get juggled while in DS, or else it is rubbish as a defense.

Erasmus.1624:

• Allow healing in DS [More opportunity for selfish, passive healing]

The goal here is to allow necromancers to recover, and not pop out of DS at zero health. The selfish aspect of our class is something that should be addressed in some other way. Not here. We should have skills that buff our party, for example.

Erasmus.1624:

• Allow access to all utility skills while in DS [Making DS even more generic by turning it into just another weapon set]

Right now DS is a hindrance, and not something that scares our opponents. It completely handicaps us when we use it, which is why DS feels so lackluster. It should not be a hindrance, it should make us more dangerous, not less.

Erasmus.1624:

• Full skillbar in DS, with skills that can be switched out, just like a regular skill bar. [See above]

If we can choose our DS skills, then it would have DS-specific skills associated with it. Yes, it would be an extra skillbar, but one with very powerful abilities. Not every necro would be stuck with the same DS skills, which makes us more flexible. Currently one of the problems with DS, is that it has a bizarre mix of skills. It has life stealing, even if I’m not life stealing focused with my build. It has fear skills, even if I’m not running a fear build. And it has condition skills, even if I’m not running a condi-build.

So I’m stuck with all these skills, most of which offer no synergy with the build that I’m currently running. That could be changed, to make DS adaptable to the build we run.

Erasmus.1624:

Why not just play a warrior?

I think a better question is, why is our class mechanic not as flexible as that of a warrior, or any other class for that matter?

Erasmus.1624:

• Allow weapon swapping in DS
  I guess that’s a fine quality-of-life change, but I know that the only reason anyone would want to swap weapons while in DS is to gain the benefits of instant, passive sigil bonuses given that weapon swapping is already instant and there is no real problem of not having enough time to swap to a different weapon set after exiting from DS. While masked as a quality-of-life update, such a suggestion would just further make a mess of gw2 combat.

I don’t see how this would make a mess out of GW2 combat. It follows what I said earlier, about how DS should not limit our abilities, it should do the opposite.

-Entering DS should be a deciding moment for a necromancer, and your opponents should take heed. If you tweak your DS-bar with offensive skills, then the moment you enter DS is when you become an engine of destruction.

-On the other hand, if you tweak your DS-bar with defensive skills, then the moment you enter DS has to be carefully timed for the moment when you expect the most punishment.

DS in my opinion should be more flexible, and should be dangerous in all cases. It should be the moment when you are at your strongest, not your weakest.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

[DS] is not supposed to make you immune against auto attacks from players. This is only to block one really powerful attack, from a boss for example. It is also not supposed to fix our defense issues, or lack of invulnerability. I like to have this option, because it adds more strategic life force management in PVE against powerful opponents.

PvE necro doesn’t need an extra single-hit damage soak. Dodges can mitigate everything in overworld PvE. A guardian in the party can mitigate everything dangerous in instanced PvE. What you’re suggesting to add is just more trouble for people in PvP.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

I do agree that we need more to deal with focused fire as well. Is DS the place to fix this? Perhaps. I’d love to hear suggestions.

“Fixing” the necro isn’t about making DS into some shield; it’s about making the class into a more mobile fighting machine with various support options:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/A-good-necromancer/first#post5026965.

Besides, if the stock necro was a mobile, dark magic muscle wizard, it would actually make the LUMBERING SLOW REAPER with instant shout damage slightly different instead of just a direct upgrade.

Moreover, who’s to say that any other class in this game is well balanced? The idea with my rework of the necro was to make it fit into a game that was globally rebalanced under the fundamentals of soft counters, anticipation and attacking during narrow windows of opportunity. As daunting as that seems, it isn’t hard to make it work.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

The idea here is that DS is supposed to be our big defense.

Says who? Anet? They aren’t a trustworthy source. Besides, if PvE has proven anything, it’s that huge amounts of HP is not a good defense in GW2. My linked suggestion for DS was mainly as a powerful support mode or attack mode based on trait selection, priority buttons and player positioning.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Yet it is overshadowed by nearly every defensive skill on other classes that grants stability. We should not get juggled while in DS, or else it is rubbish as a defense.

No one should be juggled at all. CC shouldn’t be as prevalent or as powerful as it is. There is a better way to solve the insufferable “I WANT STABILITY” problem aside from just caving into people who think that it would be the best for GW2 to see perfectly everyone in combat just manually walking about the field while nothing anyone does has any effect on anyone. If we’re going to do that, we might as well just play Runescape (GW2 is already dangerously close enough). Tone the un-fun things down, don’t powercreep hard counter solutions.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

The goal here is to allow necromancers to recover, and not pop out of DS at zero health.

Instead of putting it all on the Necromancer to recover ala an Elementalist or Warrior, why not just make damage harder to hit in order to give the Necromancer a better fighting chance as both combatant or support role? The goal is to make dying feel like the fault of the player for overcommitting rather than “Oh, that guy teleported to me repeatedly,” or “Oh, that guy killed me with those sigils, traits and ranged instant damage that no one can stop or counter.”

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

We should have skills that buff our party, for example.

The problem with GW2 is that most “party buffs” that a player dispenses also affect that player. It’s not truly supportive if it isn’t altruistic because otherwise those abilities have the same effect whether a player uses them in the midst of 5 allies or while alone on a point just regenerating health. Altruism begets team organization and synergy: roles.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

I don’t see how this would make a mess out of GW2 combat.

Instant passive procs that operate on RNG triggers don’t make a mess of combat in general?

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

-Entering DS should be a deciding moment for a necromancer, and your opponents should take heed.

Yes, that’s why I made my necro rework.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

DS feels so lackluster. It should not be a hindrance, it should make us more dangerous, not less. That could be changed, to make DS adaptable to the build we run. If we can choose our DS skills, then it would have DS-specific skills associated with it.

DS in my opinion should be more flexible, and should be dangerous in all cases. It should be the moment when you are at your strongest, not your weakest.

My rework traits already work to do this. Traits are honestly enough to help make weapon bars more malleable than they are now. The mechanics are there.

The trick is finding an elegant solution that keeps it simultaneously Unique, Intuitive, Effective, and Fun. If a game mechanic was a character, those would be their four attributes we want to keep near maximum at all times. We need to increase the weaker attributes without cutting down the stronger ones a single notch.

• Unique: We’re sitting pretty good in this regard. Chronomancer gets something vaguely similar, but the feel is different.
• Intuitive: The F1 mechanic of popping in an out of shroud, and the function of the lifeforce pool are crystal clear. That’s great, and I’d rather not muck it up. The “weapon” skills within deathshroud, however, can be difficult to grok in context of each other and the player’s other abilities – that’s some room for improvement.
• Effective: The necro’s other defenses are all balanced against the lifeforce pool, and it doesn’t seem to add up to 100%. From playing and watching people play, it largely seems that DS is under utilized. Many players spend a lot of time sitting at full lifeforce, choosing to take health damage instead of dropping into death shroud. Increasing the desirability and ultimate uptime of the shroud state might almost be enough for most players.
• Fun: What’s fun differs for every player. Generally, we tell the game what we think is fun through our build, but DS currently interrupts your play style instead of adding to it.

In short, we need skills that work with the player’s build, to make lifeforce worth spending, thus increasing defense and the strength of the necro as a whole.

I will stand by part of my previously posted idea, but tweak the rest. Three of the skills available in DS need to be pulled directly from the spec lines the player selects. These skills need to have maximum synergy with the abilities and effects on their respective spec lines. For the other skills, I recommend basing them on the weapon(s) the player has equipped. The auto-attack should be inspired by the main hand weapon, and the 2 skill should be inspired by the off hand, (or both based on a two-handed weapon like staff). Skills 3-5 would be the spec-line skills.

I think this best retains the current feel of distinction between DS and non-DS modes, while making sure that all of the skills fit your play style and are worth using. Some of the things I’ve seen suggested as baseline improvements, (I call them “complications”), can be included in specific DS skills instead.

Need stability, healing, mobility, or a fearsplosion? If you’ve built yourself around similar abilities, it’ll probably be on your bar, just waiting for you to drop into DS and trigger it.

Erasmus.1624:

PvE necro doesn’t need an extra single-hit damage soak. Dodges can mitigate everything in overworld PvE.

Of dodges can do that. But every other class ALSO has other options to avoid damage besides those 2 dodges. So if you intend to level the playing field (and I do) you either remove all that invulnerability from other classes, or you give the necro a way to deal with those single massive hits as well.

Erasmus.1624:

A guardian in the party can mitigate everything dangerous in instanced PvE. What you’re suggesting to add is just more trouble for people in PvP.

People should stop worrying so much about PvP. This isn’t an esport. Necro is in a dreadful place in PVE, and it is about time some balancing was done with PVE as its focus, rather than always the other way around. PVP is the reason our class is such a mess to begin with.

Erasmus.1624:

“Fixing” the necro isn’t about making DS into some shield; it’s about making the class into a more mobile fighting machine with various support options:

I think a lot of necromancers would agree that we do need more defense. Right now we are vastly behind other classes, in regards to defense.

Erasmus.1624:

As daunting as that seems, it isn’t hard to make it work.

Oh, I’m not saying otherwise. I’m not just talking about balance within the necro class itself. But I believe we should first worry about making the necromancer at least on par with all the other classes. Both in PVE, WvW and pvp. Right now we are pretty poop in all of those modes. We are bottom of the barrel.

Erasmus.1624:

Says who? Anet? They aren’t a trustworthy source.

I will as go as far as to agree that their design choices so far have not been in line with their idea of DS as defense. But no further.

Erasmus.1624:

Besides, if PvE has proven anything, it’s that huge amounts of HP is not a good defense in GW2.

I think Anet hasn’t gotten that memo yet though. They are still stuck in that 2nd healthbar way of thinking.

Erasmus.1624:

My linked suggestion for DS was mainly as a powerful support mode or attack mode based on trait selection, priority buttons and player positioning.

Why not have it fulfill more than just support and attack? Shouldn’t DS also be that thing we retreat into to save our hides? So how about improving tyhat functionality as well while you are at it?

Erasmus.1624:

No one should be juggled at all. CC shouldn’t be as prevalent or as powerful as it is.

When you toss a few players together in WvW, CC becomes just a spam fest. So either you are right, and CC is too prevalent, or we need to have stability like all the other classes. I obviously lean towards the latter, because I don’t see CC going anywhere any time soon.

Erasmus.1624:

There is a better way to solve the insufferable “I WANT STABILITY” problem aside from just caving into people who think that it would be the best for GW2 to see perfectly everyone in combat just manually walking about the field while nothing anyone does has any effect on anyone.

That is not really what we have right now. We have one class (us) that gets stun locked, while every single other class can pop their evasion or invulnerability, and make a clean get away. Such a discrepency should not exist between the classes.

So if you want to level the playing field, you either improve our stability, or you reduce that of all other classes. I tend to lean towards the least invasive solution.

Erasmus.1624:

If we’re going to do that, we might as well just play Runescape (GW2 is already dangerously close enough). Tone the un-fun things down, don’t powercreep hard counter solutions.

Power creep has been all over GW2 since release. The various mechanics simply aren’t equally important, yet the classes are balanced around them as if they are. Our class happens to be stuck with most of the trash-mechanics. The question is, what do you propose they do about it?

Erasmus.1624:

Instead of putting it all on the Necromancer to recover ala an Elementalist or Warrior, why not just make damage harder to hit in order to give the Necromancer a better fighting chance as both combatant or support role?

That could also be a way to go. But that doesn’t solve the problem of popping out of DS with little to no health left. If DS is supposed to be used as a life saver in some situations, then this is something that ought to be addressed.

Erasmus.1624:

The goal is to make dying feel like the fault of the player for overcommitting rather than “Oh, that guy teleported to me repeatedly,” or “Oh, that guy killed me with those sigils, traits and ranged instant damage that no one can stop or counter.”

The problem right now is that any zerk in WvW will just waltz over the necromancer, with no chance of escape. And the only defense there is to role a guardian instead, who does have access to invulnerability. And that doesn’t feel fair either.

Erasmus.1624:

The problem with GW2 is that most “party buffs” that a player dispenses also affect that player. It’s not truly supportive if it isn’t altruistic because otherwise those abilities have the same effect whether a player uses them in the midst of 5 allies or while alone on a point just regenerating health. Altruism begets team organization and synergy: roles.

I understand what you mean, though I fail to see how a party buff that excludes the caster, would be better. Because what you want is for skills to be flexible, and useful in multiple situations.

Erasmus.1624:

Instant passive procs that operate on RNG triggers don’t make a mess of combat in general?

Where does the RNG element come in?

Erasmus.1624:

My rework traits already work to do this. Traits are honestly enough to help make weapon bars more malleable than they are now. The mechanics are there.

New traits are nice, but that doesn’t fix DS. Our class mechanic is broken right now.

Let’s just get some priorities and realities in line first:

• Is it good design to let a player take every important mechanic available to anyone in the game?
• Is it OK to forego the concept of altruism when it comes to healing/support?
• Is it fair or proper to just keep erasing the baseline drawbacks to certain classes or playstyles?
• How enjoyable is it to play within a paradigm of instant hard counters aimed at undermining another player’s effort?
• If a game goes ahead and implements all of the above things into their gameplay, does any class have any distinct playstyle or function at that point?

You mention things like the “least invasive” ways to make necromancer “better.” The “least invasive” ways of balancing gw2 have lead us to this conversation. All of the “least invasive” things are the anti-fun mechanics that make necromancer currently inadequate. You want to join that club too? The “least invasive” balance club? You want to just cave and be yet another warrior? Given your personal tagline, I would think that you would have been broadminded enough to, at the very least, even minutely consider the opposite path: its possibilities and consequences.

Honestly, just read the rework I’ve linked already. Don’t think just in terms of necro. Think holistically in terms of the whole game and just how out of whack it is. Because of its position as “the underpowered class,” necromancer is a foothold to improving the entire game if its approached correctly.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

That could also be a way to go. But that doesn’t solve the problem of popping out of DS with little to no health left. If DS is supposed to be used as a life saver in some situations, then this is something that ought to be addressed.

How is a fixed portion of one’s own total health pool a “life saver” in any way? Is it not just a finite constant that a player must ration as a whole? If someone gets hit repeatedly despite being given various means to mitigate the damage, that person should be punished (just keep reading before you get flustered thinking “BUT NECROS CAN’T DO THAT”). Fights don’t need to last forever (or longer than they should) for no reason.

If someone runs into a situation where he/she takes heavy damage and there is no one else around to mitigate or heal it back up for them, that person has overcommited and deserves a punishment. This is pretty basic. By at least making damage in gw2 remotely fair, the game will lose its need for extended static invulnerability periods and it will simultaneously become easier to judge how far a player can push his/her luck in any given engagement with limited or no support just by scoping the field and using positioning as an advantage.

Erasmus.1624:

Let’s just get some priorities and realities in line first:

• Is it good design to let a player take every important mechanic available to anyone in the game?
• Is it OK to forego the concept of altruism when it comes to healing/support?
• Is it fair or proper to just keep erasing the baseline drawbacks to certain classes or playstyles?
• How enjoyable is it to play within a paradigm of instant hard counters aimed at undermining another player’s effort?
• If a game goes ahead and implements all of the above things into their gameplay, does any class have any distinct playstyle or function at that point?

I understand all these points, and I also agree that these are some of the core problems with the game. Where we disagree, is on the solution.

Erasmus.1624:

You mention things like the “least invasive” ways to make necromancer “better.” The “least invasive” ways of balancing gw2 have lead us to this conversation. All of the “least invasive” things are the anti-fun mechanics that make necromancer currently inadequate. You want to join that club too? The “least invasive” balance club?

When I say “least invasive”, what I mean is that I’m looking for a solution that is reasonable given the current state of the game, and does not require a complete rework of the entire combat system.

While my preference would go towards a combat system that isn’t broken, I realize that’s simply not going to happen. In a way you could say that I’ve thrown in the towel, and accepted that the game will always have these unbalanced mechanics. I’d rather then have an equal distribution of this power-creep, rather than having one class (the necro) being left out.

Erasmus.1624:

Honestly, just read the rework I’ve linked already. Don’t think just in terms of necro. Think holistically in terms of the whole game and just how out of whack it is. Because of its position as “the underpowered class,” necromancer is a foothold to improving the entire game if its approached correctly.

I agree that the problems with the necromancer can serve as a baseline for fixing the entire game. Our class perfectly exposes the problems within the current combat system:

-The dominance of certain mechanics, over other mechanics.
-The dominance of certain boons over others.
-The unequal distribution of superior mechanics across certain classes.
-The broken trinity of damage, support, control.
-The dominance of stability, evasion and invulnerability skills.
-The importance of useful combo fields, and team support.
-The dominance of DPS, making many gear stats redundant.

The question is though, is changing all this a reasonable thing to expect from the developers?

Erasmus.1624:

How is a fixed portion of one’s own total health pool a “life saver” in any way? Is it not just a finite constant that a player must ration as a whole? If someone gets hit repeatedly despite being given various means to mitigate the damage, that person should be punished (just keep reading before you get flustered thinking “BUT NECROS CAN’T DO THAT”). Fights don’t need to last forever (or longer than they should) for no reason.

My real issue with this, is that necromancers are punished more for this than other classes, due to our lack of damage mitigation. This is an imbalance that should be fixed. Having an extra health pool could be a way to save your life, because you can retreat into DS when you are about to die. But there is a lot of power-creep in the game right now, that destroys this functionality. It conflicts with the basic idea of Death Shroud. Part of the problem here, is that DS does not scale properly under focused fire, or against heavy damage spikes. (Where as other classes can rely on skills that DO scale properly)

If other classes had the same problem, I would be fine with it. But not class should be singled out like that. Our class has been neglected.

Erasmus.1624:

If someone runs into a situation where he/she takes heavy damage and there is no one else around to mitigate or heal it back up for them, that person has overcommited and deserves a punishment. This is pretty basic. By at least making damage in gw2 remotely fair, the game will lose its need for extended static invulnerability periods and it will simultaneously become easier to judge how far a player can push his/her luck in any given engagement with limited or no support just by scoping the field and using positioning as an advantage.

I agree, but then you also need to level the playing field, and remove all those ridiculous invulnerability skills from other classes.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

When I say “least invasive”, what I mean is that I’m looking for a solution that is reasonable given the current state of the game, and does not require a complete rework of the entire combat system.

The combat system would remain the same spaghetti-coded mess that it has always been. If you read my changes, the total amount of actual mechanic updates would be very minimal. Everything else is using things that are already in the game. If anything, my changes are pretty minimally invasive regarding the engine. If you wanted a complete rework, it would be something like “lock the camera and make everyone manually aim their attacks.”

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

In a way you could say that I’ve thrown in the towel, and accepted that the game will always have these unbalanced mechanics. I’d rather then have an equal distribution of this power-creep, rather than having one class (the necro) being left out.

Quitter talk. I won’t hear it.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

I agree that the problems with the necromancer can serve as a baseline for fixing the entire game. Our class perfectly exposes the problems within the current combat system:

-[Hard counters trump player “skill”]

The question is though, is changing all this a reasonable thing to expect from the developers?

If they want a remotely respectable game, it is. It isn’t hard either considering all I did was use mechanics that are already in the game.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

My real issue with this, is that necromancers are punished more for this than other classes, due to our lack of damage mitigation. This is an imbalance that should be fixed.

By making damage dealing more fair across the board, yes.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Having an extra health pool could be a way to save your life,

IT’S NOT an extra health pool. It’s a part of your total health pool. They aren’t separate. They are part of the same thing. A player’s HP pool is not “a way to save one’s life.” It is the resource that flatly dictates whether or not a player is dead or not.

When you talk about “DS scaling properly under focused fire” you’re just talking about active/passive damage mitigation; not “using my health pool as a shield in order to save my own life.” “Using one’s life force as a shield” is literally just TAKING DAMAGE. There is no HP pool scaling. Players aren’t PvE mobs despite what this game’s shallow combat system will tell you. What you’re talking about is adding static invulnerability periods to necromancer. You’re using that quitter talk again. Go play another class unless you really want to talk about how to make necro better.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

I agree, but then you also need to level the playing field, and remove all those ridiculous invulnerability skills from other classes.

That’s easy.

I honestly don’t see what the problem is here. Making damage fairer in gw2 isn’t hard, and it would have a domino effect.

• Damage is made fairer and damage frequency is spaced out a little more
• Current invulnerability periods instantly become incredibly overpowered
• Current invulnerability periods are drastically cut back or outright removed
• Conditions are suddenly overpowered
• Conditions are cut back drastically and removed from things like auto attacks and passive RNG procs
• By this point player HEALING is overpowered
• That gets cut back and spread out into more altruistic sources
• Eventually the game is nothing but players jumping about, using healing to erratically help their wounded allies when possible while also dealing and avoiding damage on their own without the use of “press button; receive i-frames”

However, instead of watching anet trip over each tiny step in the process over the course of 4 years, I just did the whole enchilada in a single week 4 months ago with that necro rework.

I think the most important thing they have to do is changing the AA for the classic DS. The new DS got so much cleave potential. For example, Dhuumfire will have to be balanced around this and therefore become very underwhelming for Life Blast.

I think Life Blast should explode on impact like Ele Staff Fire AA.

Xaylin.1860:

I think the most important thing they have to do is changing the AA for the classic DS.

You’ll be happy to know that the necro rework does just that.

Xaylin.1860:

I think Life Blast should explode on impact like Ele Staff Fire AA.

Only if it’s the same skill copy pasted over. Life Blast deals too much damage to deserve being a projectile which triggers an AoE on impact. It would also have to be an arcing projectile that doesn’t pierce so as to make sure that we don’t see a necro fire into a line of people and kill everything as its AoE damage casually procs 3 times. Might as well just make it a green Fireball. That’s not a terrible idea honestly. Fireball is a cleaving attack after all.

Erasmus.1624:

Xaylin.1860:

I think the most important thing they have to do is changing the AA for the classic DS.

You’ll be happy to know that the necro rework does just that.

Xaylin.1860:

I think Life Blast should explode on impact like Ele Staff Fire AA.

Only if it’s the same skill copy pasted over. Life Blast deals too much damage to deserve being a projectile which triggers an AoE on impact. It would also have to be an arcing projectile that doesn’t pierce so as to make sure that we don’t see a necro fire into a line of people and kill everything as its AoE damage casually procs 3 times. Might as well just make it a green Fireball. That’s not a terrible idea honestly. Fireball is a cleaving attack after all.

Instead of exploding on hit, I would rather it start out as something like an explosion. It is called a blast, after all. Running with the way it already does more damage to close enemies, I would like to see a fast, explosive (high damage) attack to a single target in front of the necro, with the green smoky remnants of the explosion then drifting forward through other enemies as a (low damage) projectile – like the smoke from a firecracker drifting on a strong wind.

Erasmus.1624:

Xaylin.1860:

I think the most important thing they have to do is changing the AA for the classic DS.

You’ll be happy to know that the necro rework does just that.

Unless you’re not talking about the Reaper: We honestly don’t know.

Erasmus.1624:

Xaylin.1860:

I think Life Blast should explode on impact like Ele Staff Fire AA.

Only if it’s the same skill copy pasted over. Life Blast deals too much damage to deserve being a projectile which triggers an AoE on impact. It would also have to be an arcing projectile that doesn’t pierce so as to make sure that we don’t see a necro fire into a line of people and kill everything as its AoE damage casually procs 3 times. Might as well just make it a green Fireball. That’s not a terrible idea honestly. Fireball is a cleaving attack after all.

That’s the whole point. You can’t balance traits when they affect one piercing projectile or a cleaving attack (RS).

Xaylin.1860:

Unless you’re not talking about the Reaper: We honestly don’t know.

I already posted this, but:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/A-good-necromancer/first#post5026965

If you want a very abridged tl;dr, just look through this thread.

Xaylin.1860:

That’s the whole point. You can’t balance traits when they affect one piercing projectile or a cleaving attack (RS).

My solution in the link that I made above was two-fold:

• Group up traits that directly affect skills (by means of changing a stock skill to something entirely different) into similar trait tiers (i.e. make all of them a GM in the same trait line).
• Don’t try to change entire weapon bars at once. Focus on making single traits that affect the functionality of single skills. That way, we can avoid overlapping trait issues.

I had plenty of these things in my rework and I solved the issue by just grouping traits properly and making sure that a boat load of “passive bonus” traits didn’t just end up getting dumped into a single skill (i.e what we have going for Life Blast right now).