Guild Wars 2

I have 4 level 80’s with full exotics, Warrior, Guardian, Elementalist, and Mesmer. I have one last free character slot left so I’ve decided to level a Necro to 80.

Out of the mages, in pve, it seems to me that the necro, at least in pve, is the strongest solo mage class right now.

I’m only level 22 at the moment, but it seems that, comparing my Elementalist and Mesmer at that time, the Necro is able to defeat enemies quicker than they did at that level.

I’m not much of a pvp’er and I haven’t really spent enough time in WvW because I like to pve so much, so I’m only speaking from a pve point of view.

Well I would say that the necromancer is the most powerful while leveling, but the mesmer begins to shine far more in small group based pve content like dungeons etc once you reach 80.

If you plan to use your necro in pvp and wvw though I think it evens out so necromancer isn’t a bad choice.

In no way, are they the strongest in anything.

Well, maybe looks.

ArchonWing.9480:

In no way, are they the strongest in anything.

Well, maybe looks.

I think they are the strongest in condition and boon control. Do you disagree?

In 80 group pve – necros are second hated class after ranger.

Valheru Baal.9456:

ArchonWing.9480:

In no way, are they the strongest in anything.

Well, maybe looks.

I think they are the strongest in condition and boon control. Do you disagree?

Well, that’s kind of true. It doesn’t amount much to anything in pve though; though outside it would matter. Though this is a defect in that mode more than the class in and of itself.

you must be joking, if necro is the strongest class i will quit playing gw2, go to tibet and live as a goat

GuildWarsPlayer.5608:

I have 4 level 80’s with full exotics, Warrior, Guardian, Elementalist, and Mesmer. I have one last free character slot left so I’ve decided to level a Necro to 80.

Out of the mages, in pve, it seems to me that the necro, at least in pve, is the strongest solo mage class right now.

I’m only level 22 at the moment, but it seems that, comparing my Elementalist and Mesmer at that time, the Necro is able to defeat enemies quicker than they did at that level.

I’m not much of a pvp’er and I haven’t really spent enough time in WvW because I like to pve so much, so I’m only speaking from a pve point of view.

Pretty much any class other than those 2 (mesmer, ele) kill enemies quicker at that level. Those 2 classes are the most annoying classes to level in the game

Valheru Baal.9456:

ArchonWing.9480:

In no way, are they the strongest in anything.

Well, maybe looks.

I think they are the strongest in condition and boon control. Do you disagree?

In terms of condition “Control” yes they would be the strongest if you consider converting and sending condition and not raw removal. The Guardian is actually at least as good if not better then the necromancer for removal, especially in group settings.

Boon control? No. They play second best to the Mesmer. The mesmer has a far easier time dealing with boons then the necromancer does. This isn’t to say they are bad at it. Just that the mesmer does it quicker and better.

pheroth.5306:

GuildWarsPlayer.5608:

I have 4 level 80’s with full exotics, Warrior, Guardian, Elementalist, and Mesmer. I have one last free character slot left so I’ve decided to level a Necro to 80.

Out of the mages, in pve, it seems to me that the necro, at least in pve, is the strongest solo mage class right now.

I’m only level 22 at the moment, but it seems that, comparing my Elementalist and Mesmer at that time, the Necro is able to defeat enemies quicker than they did at that level.

I’m not much of a pvp’er and I haven’t really spent enough time in WvW because I like to pve so much, so I’m only speaking from a pve point of view.

Pretty much any class other than those 2 (mesmer, ele) kill enemies quicker at that level. Those 2 classes are the most annoying classes to level in the game

Yeah I have to agree. Elementalist, for me at least, was the most challenging to level.

GuildWarsPlayer.5608:

I have 4 level 80’s with full exotics, Warrior, Guardian, Elementalist, and Mesmer. I have one last free character slot left so I’ve decided to level a Necro to 80.

Out of the mages, in pve, it seems to me that the necro, at least in pve, is the strongest solo mage class right now.

I’m only level 22 at the moment, but it seems that, comparing my Elementalist and Mesmer at that time, the Necro is able to defeat enemies quicker than they did at that level.

I’m not much of a pvp’er and I haven’t really spent enough time in WvW because I like to pve so much, so I’m only speaking from a pve point of view.

If you are just open world roaming, it doesn’t matter what profession you bring. All of them are capable of doing great. Unlike the other professions though, the necromancer struggles with escaping. This makes map completion slower on a necromancer then other professions because you might find that you have no choice but to fight.

In Dungeons, necromancer is seriously lacking. Their poor defenses combine with how conditions stack put them at a serious disadvantage against other professions. A zerker warrior in your party will be pushing off your high damage bleeds cutting your damage in half, while if you go zerker yourself you will easily be downed by elite mobs or champions because you don’t have the defensive abilities the other professions do. A warrior can bring endure pain while a mesmer can evade, go invulnerable or just go invisible to disengage from the enemy.

Your party support is also very limited. Considering its mostly restricted to wells, you occasionally asking your allies to stand in them to gain the benefits. While a Mesmer supports through other methods or a guardian does aoe shouts and buffs along with the warrior.

In fact, the necromancer is just lacking in every area except for applying conditions. But even that is ruined in PvE by poor stacking.

Necro is stronger than mesmer but less useful. Its weaker than ele and less useful.

To the OP’s specific question:

Yes, I think necros probably are the strongest solo PVE mage class. We can do massive AOE damage in PVE, or very strong single-target damage, and we can do it while facetanking alot of damage.

TheAgedGnome.7520:

To the OP’s specific question:

Yes, I think necros probably are the strongest solo PVE mage class. We can do massive AOE damage in PVE, or very strong single-target damage, and we can do it while facetanking alot of damage.

I agree. This is what I am seeing thus far.

War hammer – longbow is strongest character and build now. You can use this build everywhere wvsw – pvp – dungeon. And it is easy to play.

Say Necros are the weakest while claiming zerker necros can’t survive Champs/Elites and insist on using a secondary stat as main source of dmg.

Yep, OP did right asking on forums. Full of experts -_-

daimasei.4091:

Say Necros are the weakest while claiming zerker necros can’t survive Champs/Elites and insist on using a secondary stat as main source of dmg.

Yep, OP did right asking on forums. Full of experts -_-

lol…. I like asking questions on forums for different points of view. I will say, no matter what forum, when asking a question about a specific profession or class, the answers are always the same lol. Some hate the profession and some love the profession.

knbBlackTemplar.3059:

In 80 group pve – necros are second hated class after ranger.

Only because nobody knows how to play a necro properly. I quit my lv80 guardian after seeing what a necro could do.
I tried desperately to make another class, but nothing compared to necro in terms of how fun it is.
I also want to believe it’s the tankiest class, I see so many people dropping when they have like 10+ things chasing them.
I just kite and gain LF with 4 in DS, have pierce on LB, chance to gain LF on crit, and LB grants might. Watch your LF go up 100-400 points every LB when fighting a large group. >;/ Stay in DS 5ever, have 94% crit rate, hit 4k+ every LB while your minions are doing the same if not more damage.
I run a power necro with minion utils, the dps and survivability is great.
Lily.1935 needs to lrn2play.

Im pretty sure I know how to play necro properly. Its a class with many weaknesses and nothing that special. Ele and mesmer are better most of the time. Necro is good for solo durability though, but lack of reflects gives a disadvantage in some encounters when solo.

Necromancers are probably the weakest in PvE (perhaps tied with thief). They are stronger in PvP but are losing some steam there as well.

Necros are far from the strongest, maybe mediocre. The strongest class is warrior in every aspect of the game.

Lily.1935:

Valheru Baal.9456:

ArchonWing.9480:

In no way, are they the strongest in anything.

Well, maybe looks.

I think they are the strongest in condition and boon control. Do you disagree?

In terms of condition “Control” yes they would be the strongest if you consider converting and sending condition and not raw removal. The Guardian is actually at least as good if not better then the necromancer for removal, especially in group settings.

Boon control? No. They play second best to the Mesmer. The mesmer has a far easier time dealing with boons then the necromancer does. This isn’t to say they are bad at it. Just that the mesmer does it quicker and better.

I said condition control because removing, converting, transferring are all part of controlling those condition. And its pretty clear necromancer excel at this. Multiple transfer and convert skills what makes necros deadly. It a nice thing to remove some conditions but its amazing to turn them into boons or send them back to its source. Not to mention EPIDEMIC which is simply one of the best skills in game right now, and one of the reasons why conditionmancers are extremly strong, and useful in dungeons. Especially in Fractals against large number of veterans with enormous amount of hp.

The same thing I could say about boon removal. You state its second to mesmer though you seem to forget necros do not simply remove boons they also punish the enemies for it most of the time.

Necro:

Spinal Shivers 3 boons insta ripped from enemy more dmg depending how many boons were removed. (also can be found in traits, Chill of Death)

Corrupt Boon insta converts up to 5 boons into conditions. Come on really? Mesmers can do better? You turn Aegis into burning and stability into fear, not to mention all the other converts.

Well of Corruption, and yet again converting boons 1 at a time for 5 seconds, but its AOE and unblockable.

Necromatic Corruption Minions removeing boons on hit (10% chance), definitely not my favourite but its ok.

Mesmer:

Mind stab weaker version of Unholy Feast (axe 3) overall, shorter radius, slightly better dmg, no criple on enemies, no retallion on caster, slightly better cd.

Null Field= Grim Specter on necromancer but I have to admit it has much lower cd because GS a Lich Form skill, so NF is definitelly better. (Null Field is one of my favourite mesmer skill)

Phantasmal Disenchanter really nice mesmer skill but dies extremly fast.

Arcane Thievery on mesmer is awesome but I dont think it could compete with corrupt boon since its less predictable, base longer cd and shorter range. Boons steal is nice but as I said you never know what you could steal, assuming you can at all. (I usually dont stack up boons on my necro)

Shattered Concentration yet again another amazing mesmer stuff but it is still remove only, and not convert.

Mind Spike 3rd skill on sword for mesmer almost never getting to use it. (removes one up to 3 foes)

I have to admit mesmer is a really good competitor when it comes to boon control, but I prefer convert over raw removal. Saying which one is better is quite subjective so everyone can pick their side.

Necromancers are a really strong class in every part of the game. WvW, PvP, and yes even PVE. Condition cap was never a problem because of Epidemic is just awesome. The highest AOE dps can be done by necromancers. (I just love to spread 25 stacks of bleed, poison, torment, burning, confusion, vulnerability and all the good stuff on 25 dredges in Fractal. Thats a sight you ll never forget) Necromancers have tons of AOE dmg skills in generel (even with low cd) so when it comes to farming (both in PVE or in WvW)you can tag almost every enemy quite easily.

I would not recommend the OP to ask questions like this on forums because there are lots of casuals, trolls, incompetent palyers who gives you false information. For the first 6 months there was nothing else on necro forums but how weak necromancers are in PvP, PVE yet the number 1 NA with the most qualifying points in SPvP was a necromancer. Since then necromancers got lots of buffs so yeah, they are pretty strong. Yet some ppl still complain. I just hope Anet will listen to these nonsense and we can get even more buffs. Unfortunately the next SPvP patch almost only contains nerfs so it seems Anet devs disagree with the opinion of some palyers. In the end what I can recommend is that you play the toon you are most comfortable with. Your personal experience already is positive about necromancers and I can assure you it wont change in the future if you keep an open mind.

Valheru Baal.9456:

I would not recommend the OP to ask questions like this on forums because there are lots of casuals, trolls, incompetent palyers who gives you false information.

This is the kinda of thing I don’t personally like to see on the forums. Discrediting everyone else in this insane idea that one way is the right way to play. Its elitism, and leaves no room for improvement or open to other people’s opinions on the matter. I’m not going to say everything everyone says is completely right or accurate. But each person’s experience and opinion should be taken into account when trying to make a decision. They ask because they haven’t had the experience and they want to hear what we think.

When I first started GW2, I had all the Necromancer Traits and Skills memories months in advance and I still struggled with the profession up until they gave us a buff. And by that point I had figured out how to cope for Their crippling weaknesses. The Addition of Dhuumfire and Torment just made it so I could have stable damage while I build up my bleeds to keep combat quick and smooth.

As for the Condition control and Boon control comment? I did say they where the best at condition control. The problem is practicality. How practical are some of these abilities in any given situation compared to the condition or boon control compared to other professions? Because a Guardian is far better at keeping your allies healthy then the necromancer is. The necromancer controls conditions better for themselves, but for allies its a different story. And the Mesmer is better at stripping boons on mass. Sure, the necro can strip a good number of boons, but the clones while the mesmer is auto attacking with a sword does it as a passive ability. Then there is null Field which is amazing in PvE that made Well of power laughable bad in comparison before WoP became a stunbreak. Then you have to think about the other side of boons. Not just stripping them but applying them to allies. Which the necromancer is very poor at. WoP is really good in parties as you can throw it over burning allies and give them aegis for it which is awesome and I use that all the time. But in comparison to the mesmer who has very unique set ups where they will combo with their runes and put a whole bunch of boons(If not all of them) on themselves and copy them all to allies.

Are both the Mesmer and Necromancer extremely good at stripping boons? Absolutely. They where extremely good at it in the first game and its no different here. Is the mesmer slightly better at it? yes, however don’t believe for a second I think the necromancer is bad at it.

ive been playing a hybrid necro since I created it. Of all the mage classes it is easily the one thats best at soloing. Not as good in a party, but not worthless at all. Mesmer is my main but I actually hate clearing maps with my mes and never got map completion because simple mobs can actually be annoying because of mes mechanics. D/D Ele is close to necro for maps, but necro comes out on top imo. Staff ele is a beast in dungeons though. Necro prob has them both beat in wvw and pvp.

Lily.1935:

Valheru Baal.9456:

I would not recommend the OP to ask questions like this on forums because there are lots of casuals, trolls, incompetent palyers who gives you false information.

This is the kinda of thing I don’t personally like to see on the forums. Discrediting everyone else in this insane idea that one way is the right way to play. Its elitism, and leaves no room for improvement or open to other people’s opinions on the matter. I’m not going to say everything everyone says is completely right or accurate. But each person’s experience and opinion should be taken into account when trying to make a decision. They ask because they haven’t had the experience and they want to hear what we think.

When I first started GW2, I had all the Necromancer Traits and Skills memories months in advance and I still struggled with the profession up until they gave us a buff. And by that point I had figured out how to cope for Their crippling weaknesses. The Addition of Dhuumfire and Torment just made it so I could have stable damage while I build up my bleeds to keep combat quick and smooth.

I never said everyone else is a moron and that there is only one right way, but the forums are filled with inaccurate, false informations and content free comments. You can find 1 comment in every 50 (or even worse ratio) thats has some merits to it where the author seems to be experienced in the topic.

You could say that the Golden Gate is the nicest bridge in the world, and thats your opinion. My opinion is that it is the nicest dog in the world. Should you respect my opinion? Does my opinion gives room for improvement? No it certainly does not.

A good example is our discussion where we both admit that necros, and mesmers has the best boon control yet we think otherwise in the case of which one is better. I still prefer well of corruption over null field since it is converting boons and not only removes them while also dealing AOE dmg (NF does not deal dmg). In PVE you can easily use it on mobs that were pulled together chill them and they wont leave it. In PVP you place it on the capping point and the enemy can either decide to leave the circle and let you cap it or withsand it. In WvW its yet another great skill to tag multiple enemies while bringing some utility into zergfights. I will not say I am right and you are wrong because it is my preference. This leaves the question open for other palyers to decide what do they like more based on their OWN experience.

If the OP wants to get better with necromancer or wants to learn its secrets. I can recommend whatching streams of highly ranked players palying pvp with necro, necromancer commanders on higher tier WvW servers, and necromancers playing on high lvl of fractals. An other option is to hunt down and ask necromancer players in game they trust and know to have experience with it (more than 100 hours of gameplay).

Valheru Baal.9456:

If the OP wants to get better with necromancer or wants to learn its secrets. I can recommend whatching streams of highly ranked players palying pvp with necro, necromancer commanders on higher tier WvW servers, and necromancers playing on high lvl of fractals. An other option is to hunt down and ask necromancer players in game they trust and know to have experience with it (more than 100 hours of gameplay).

And I would recommend playing the profession themselves. Perhaps experimenting with Rare armor at level 80 to find the right build for them before spending the good chunk of change to get exotic to see if they really like it. Sure, watching people can give you somewhat of an idea. But the problem is playing their preferred profession is almost second nature for them and can never give them an accurate look into how it might work for them. Personal experience is what I would say is the best way to go.

Now, I’m not knocking your way. I would say do that as well. I am saying that it wont be enough to just to that. The necromancer has a few good builds that can be chosen from and each of them play rather differently.

Oh and I have 777 hours on my necromancer for GW2 and about 3,000 hours on my necromancer from GW1.

Lily.1935:

Valheru Baal.9456:

If the OP wants to get better with necromancer or wants to learn its secrets. I can recommend whatching streams of highly ranked players palying pvp with necro, necromancer commanders on higher tier WvW servers, and necromancers playing on high lvl of fractals. An other option is to hunt down and ask necromancer players in game they trust and know to have experience with it (more than 100 hours of gameplay).

And I would recommend playing the profession themselves. Perhaps experimenting with Rare armor at level 80 to find the right build for them before spending the good chunk of change to get exotic to see if they really like it. Sure, watching people can give you somewhat of an idea. But the problem is playing their preferred profession is almost second nature for them and can never give them an accurate look into how it might work for them. Personal experience is what I would say is the best way to go.

Now, I’m not knocking your way. I would say do that as well. I am saying that it wont be enough to just to that. The necromancer has a few good builds that can be chosen from and each of them play rather differently.

Oh and I have 777 hours on my necromancer for GW2 and about 3,000 hours on my necromancer from GW1.

“In the end what I can recommend is that you play the toon you are most comfortable with. Your personal experience already is positive about necromancers and I can assure you it wont change in the future if you keep an open mind.”

“I would not recommend the OP to ask questions like this on forums because there are lots of casuals, trolls, incompetent palyers who gives you false information.”

“If the OP wants to get better with necromancer or wants to learn its secrets. I can recommend whatching streams of highly ranked players palying pvp with necro, necromancer commanders on higher tier WvW servers, and necromancers playing on high lvl of fractals. An other option is to hunt down and ask necromancer players in game they trust and know to have experience with it (more than 100 hours of gameplay).”

These are my quotes from this topic in this order. As you can read (again) above I said personal experience will be the way to go in the end. Since I discouraged the OP from using GW2 forums to get an other person’s opinion about this matter. I have provided some alternatives instead which I think could lead to better understanding and improvement, nothing more.

Btw my GW1 necromancer hours are almost exactly the same as yours, but my GW2 necro hours are a lot more (not proud of it at all). I’ve spent almost all my time playing my necromancer, though I’ve played guardian, mesmer,thief, engineer also (both pvp, pve) but much less. Almost nothing compared to my Necro, just to get a basic understanding of their mechanicns.

Valheru Baal.9456:

Lily.1935:

Valheru Baal.9456:

If the OP wants to get better with necromancer or wants to learn its secrets. I can recommend whatching streams of highly ranked players palying pvp with necro, necromancer commanders on higher tier WvW servers, and necromancers playing on high lvl of fractals. An other option is to hunt down and ask necromancer players in game they trust and know to have experience with it (more than 100 hours of gameplay).

And I would recommend playing the profession themselves. Perhaps experimenting with Rare armor at level 80 to find the right build for them before spending the good chunk of change to get exotic to see if they really like it. Sure, watching people can give you somewhat of an idea. But the problem is playing their preferred profession is almost second nature for them and can never give them an accurate look into how it might work for them. Personal experience is what I would say is the best way to go.

Now, I’m not knocking your way. I would say do that as well. I am saying that it wont be enough to just to that. The necromancer has a few good builds that can be chosen from and each of them play rather differently.

Oh and I have 777 hours on my necromancer for GW2 and about 3,000 hours on my necromancer from GW1.

“In the end what I can recommend is that you play the toon you are most comfortable with. Your personal experience already is positive about necromancers and I can assure you it wont change in the future if you keep an open mind.”

“I would not recommend the OP to ask questions like this on forums because there are lots of casuals, trolls, incompetent palyers who gives you false information.”

“If the OP wants to get better with necromancer or wants to learn its secrets. I can recommend whatching streams of highly ranked players palying pvp with necro, necromancer commanders on higher tier WvW servers, and necromancers playing on high lvl of fractals. An other option is to hunt down and ask necromancer players in game they trust and know to have experience with it (more than 100 hours of gameplay).”

These are my quotes from this topic in this order. As you can read (again) above I said personal experience will be the way to go in the end. Since I discouraged the OP from using GW2 forums to get an other person’s opinion about this matter. I have provided some alternatives instead which I think could lead to better understanding and improvement, nothing more.

Btw my GW1 necromancer hours are almost exactly the same as yours, but my GW2 necro hours are a lot more (not proud of it at all). I’ve spent almost all my time playing my necromancer, though I’ve played guardian, mesmer,thief, engineer also (both pvp, pve) but much less. Almost nothing compared to my Necro, just to get a basic understanding of their mechanicns.

I didn’t get to start until February because of funding issues. I have 1.5k hours across all characters, my necromancer being my highest played. mesmer and Guardian about tied for second. My engineer being right behind them.

I wouldn’t say someone with less then 100 hours doesn’t have anything useful to say about the necromancer. Because that is just ignorance. Someone who has never played the game or the profession after a good amount of research into the game could function at a higher capacity then both of us combine because of a deeper understanding of how games work. I use my experience with other games that seem like they are unrelated to improve my abilities in this game as well as others. You think Magic the gathering or Pokemon has little or nothing in common with GW2 in terms of mechanics? You might be surprised.

And fine, I missed something you said. I can’t spend 24 hours on the forums. I have work and family to deal with.

Maybe these guys who are just flinging bleeds don’t get it, but my necro is speced with some healing in mind and I can confirm that they are awesome when it comes to AOE damage and group healing at the same time.

Our major prob, is we don’t do the ‘help’ to others like a mes. Group portal alone, usually makes them ‘wanted’ in many more situations.
We used to be able to, return conditions from group members back to mobs. But that got bugged and has been promised to just update the tool tip to stop saying it works anymore.

The biggest thing were soo far behind other class’s that you don’t notice till later on. Is no endurance regen, vigor, invul, block, etc. Were the ONLY class in the game, not to get a extra ‘avoid the 1 shot mechanic over time’.
We used to be able to use death shroud, to suck up a hit of any size, working like a ‘block’. But they removed this and were really lacking in attrition because of it.
(This has become, the main reason I don’t actually play my necro in PvE anymore)

Our main strength is conditions. Which don’t work so nicely in PvE. Objects take no dam, condi-stacks are group wide, so you just remove each-others condi’s in a group. Also, there’s only 1 stat to give extra damage for condi. Where as power, use’s crit chance & crit damage, as well as is scaled up with things like vulnerability (And other things like a trait that gives you 20% more dam on mobs under 50% life, and runes that push that higher)
Also, our power weapons, are very short to melee only range, and only hit 1 target.

Same sort of things with our death shroud, minions, and well most our things. 1v1 or vs easy challenge, they are too powerful. Yet, vs groups/top end hard challenges are way too week to be any use.

There’s also a ‘selfish’ feel to playing the necro, particularly in PvE with groups. Things like, you can’t res others in Death Shroud or other transforms like Litch. This means, either you leave your buddy to die, or give up your big long CD and only defense, meaning you’ll likely die just after saving them.

Oh as for ele, they start off weak/a bit squishy. But really get some kick at higher levels. They are also getting a huge buff in next months patch, where as we get some more nerfing.
Also with the next patch, the dev’s did admit, that we have grand master traits, that weren’t worth moving down cheaper as they so bad. But won’t fix as they don’t have the time.

While, I truly believe we are the weakest light class in PvE. I did really enjoy playing mine more than I have any other class. It plays like a survival horror game.

Lily.1935:

I didn’t get to start until February because of funding issues. I have 1.5k hours across all characters, my necromancer being my highest played. mesmer and Guardian about tied for second. My engineer being right behind them.

I wouldn’t say someone with less then 100 hours doesn’t have anything useful to say about the necromancer. Because that is just ignorance. Someone who has never played the game or the profession after a good amount of research into the game could function at a higher capacity then both of us combine because of a deeper understanding of how games work. I use my experience with other games that seem like they are unrelated to improve my abilities in this game as well as others. You think Magic the gathering or Pokemon has little or nothing in common with GW2 in terms of mechanics? You might be surprised.

And fine, I missed something you said. I can’t spend 24 hours on the forums. I have work and family to deal with.

I’ve already known that you have a lot of gaming experience the first time you replied without any explanation required. Yet again, I have never said anything about palyers with less then 100 hours not being able to say anything useful. Though I belive if anyone wants to be constructive and give a useful perspective they may have to spend more time in game aside from research.

I think everyone, just like me or you, uses their past gaming experience taken out from playing other games to be better in their next one. So no, I might not be surprised since it is not anything new to me. You keep assuming things I might think, but actually never said or thought. There is nothing wrong that you have missed something I have written. It can happen to anybody (I have studies, family, friends to be with as well, so I think I know what you mean). I was simply just pointing it out that what you said is not much different from what I had said.

Since we are getting off topic with our little conversation, let me share with the OP my leveling and map completion experience that happened the first week after release.

I’ve been playing MM necro at that time, which might not have been the best, or fastest way to level up, but I had absolutely no difficulties breezing through maps (I mean full completion). I was able to solo weaker champions while others had difficulties fighting veterans for skill points. Ppl had a hard time with Ele back then in PVE, mesmers were fine but still they felt to be slow (my guilds experience). This was even more significant the time everyone reached Orr. Due to high mob density eles, and mesmers just couldn’t catch a break while I was able to stand in one place go to the toilet and when I came back there were 7 dead bodies around me from which I’ve looted 1 rare item (it was a big deal back then). All this done in 60-70 blue green stuff while I was already lvl 80.

I could probably fill pages of why do I recommend playing necro, or what I think about different builds, but lets just not get carried away.

Firstly, Anet seems to want everybody to play melee, but has only given guardian and warrior the trait setups and skills to play melee.

Everybody else is underpowered.

Everybody.

So, you are asking for trouble claiming that anybody who is not heavy is the strongest.

As for the casters, elementalist is a post-nerf joke right now. High skill cap and underwhelming. Useful in Wvw for dragon tooth to destroy siege behind walls, but even that often needs a zoom hack or camera workaround. Elementalist is getting a buff. After the buff, elementalist will have a hard counter to easily win against Necromancers.

As for Mesmer, the Mesmer brings OP utility at the expense of base damage. Feedback is the strongest defense and strongest offense in the game. Add the rest of the reflects, spam able focus pull, great, in combat mobility, invulnability skill with low cooldown, group stability, and you have a class that will always be wanted.

Necromancer plays like a second rate engineer or second rate elementalist with more survivability, but no/little team utility. And the survivability is kind of a mirage. With no healing in shroud and bad access to boons like stability, protection, and regeneration, and no vigor or invulnerabilities, you can survive a bad play with your death shroud, but can’t heal up or escape either so the end effect is that you die anyways. Properly played by skilled players, the necromancer may be the least survivable class in the game.

nekretaal.6485:

Firstly, Anet seems to want everybody to play melee, but has only given guardian and warrior the trait setups and skills to play melee.

Everybody else is underpowered.

Everybody.

So, you are asking for trouble claiming that anybody who is not heavy is the strongest.

As for the casters, elementalist is a post-nerf joke right now. High skill cap and underwhelming. Useful in Wvw for dragon tooth to destroy siege behind walls, but even that often needs a zoom hack or camera workaround. Elementalist is getting a buff. After the buff, elementalist will have a hard counter to easily win against Necromancers.

As for Mesmer, the Mesmer brings OP utility at the expense of base damage. Feedback is the strongest defense and strongest offense in the game. Add the rest of the reflects, spam able focus pull, great, in combat mobility, invulnability skill with low cooldown, group stability, and you have a class that will always be wanted.

Necromancer plays like a second rate engineer or second rate elementalist with more survivability, but no/little team utility. And the survivability is kind of a mirage. With no healing in shroud and bad access to boons like stability, protection, and regeneration, and no vigor or invulnerabilities, you can survive a bad play with your death shroud, but can’t heal up or escape either so the end effect is that you die anyways. Properly played by skilled players, the necromancer may be the least survivable class in the game.

If necromancers are that weak, why do top 100 spvp players play or even enter 2v2, 5v5 tournaments with it? Why do top tier WvW guilds recruit and use them instead of engineers or rangers? Necros are wanted in both SPvP, and WvW. Ppl say they have multiple weaknesses in PVE due to condition cap, but I think Epidemic makes up for it. You can deal the highest constant AOE dps with necro in this game. With Epidemic used on your target it spreads conditions to +5 more targets (total number 6), and you can bring down mupltiple veteran mobs with huge Hp within seconds.

No team utility? In WvW you can put 6 seconds of protection on everebody in your zerg with a well placed Spectral Wall (not to mention fear on enemies without stability).

Least survivable class? With my current build I play in WvW I have 3k armor 20k DS, 27K base Hp, and when I use plague I have 46k Hp. with 20 secs of stability. All this without applied fortitude and consumables.

Simply saying a class is weak or mediocare is not enough. If they are that bad howcome hardcore players still play it often?

And about mesmers lets just say that most of things you said its true, but they lack AOE dmg really bad! A well placed Feedback can make up for it, but you need a target for it, and if the enemy is not stupid it is not that effective. At the same time with a necro its child’s play to tag everyone in teamfights. And their AOE is far superior to mesmers.

Epidemic is limited to 5 enemies.

Necromancer is great against trash mobs in PvE but does not do as well against bosses. Necro is focused on conditions, which easily reach caps against PvE bosses, and AoE, which is less useful against single bosses. Against bosses with adds, Necro can be devastating (to the adds) by duplicating huge stacks of conditions from the boss to the adds so the rest of the group is much less pressured. Unfortunately, PvE fights with adds rarely work out that way because of a number of reasons like the adds continually respawning, are not strong enough to matter much, or they die the moment the boss dies. When it does work, though, it works like a dream. I’m talking Epidemic, of course.

Epidemic and other condition controls is one cornerstone of the profession, minions are another, AoE is a third, and native tankiness is the fourth. Here is where the problem with the profession lies: Only trash mobs are susceptible to all four of the Necromancer’s strengths.

Umut.5471:

Epidemic is limited to 5 enemies.

I’ve edited my post to be more clear on that matter. I am not a native English speaker as you can tell, but I try my best to express myself as much as I can. I’ve failed this time I admit it and thank you for pointing it out.

Valheru Baal.9456:

If necromancers are that weak, why do top 100 spvp players play or even enter 2v2, 5v5 tournaments with it?

Why do top tier WvW guilds recruit and use them instead of engineers or rangers?

1. Top Spvp players haven’t used necromancer in a while.
2. Wvw guild use necromancers because they do some critical functions that only elementalists do better (destroying siege behind walls) but the elementalist is in sorry shape right now as a class.

nekretaal.6485:

Necromancer plays like a second rate engineer or second rate elementalist with more survivability, but no/little team utility. And the survivability is kind of a mirage. With no healing in shroud and bad access to boons like stability, protection, and regeneration, and no vigor or invulnerabilities, you can survive a bad play with your death shroud, but can’t heal up or escape either so the end effect is that you die anyways.

Properly played by skilled players, the necromancer may be the least survivable class in the game.

Very opinionated and yet very wrong. What Valheru Baal said about Necros is true. I can’t believe someone would say “no team utility”. Staff, anyone? Warhorn? Scepter? Dagger off-hand? Axe? All of those provide a nice sprinkle of utility, ESPECIALLY the staff. Fearing people off of team mates, chilling chasers and soon, transferring condis form ally to enemy is no team utility? Please. AoE blind (chill, if traited) through Plague for 20 seconds. The list goes on and on and on.

And about your last point. A properly played, skilled Necro doesn’t go down. Maybe you haven’t met any good Necros, or you met those that go into 100% offense and can melt you in 1 second but get melted just as fast when focused. Just a few days ago I fought a Necro that tanked about 7 people for around 30 seconds.

It’s weird how people say horrid things about Necros and yet, they are one of the most feared classes.

This is from a WvW point of view though. PvE is a different story described by one word: Epidemic

Valheru Baal.9456:

I’ve been playing MM necro at that time, which might not have been the best, or fastest way to level up, but I had absolutely no difficulties breezing through maps (I mean full completion). I was able to solo weaker champions while others had difficulties fighting veterans for skill points. Ppl had a hard time with Ele back then in PVE, mesmers were fine but still they felt to be slow (my guilds experience). This was even more significant the time everyone reached Orr. Due to high mob density eles, and mesmers just couldn’t catch a break while I was able to stand in one place go to the toilet and when I came back there were 7 dead bodies around me from which I’ve looted 1 rare item (it was a big deal back then). All this done in 60-70 blue green stuff while I was already lvl 80.

I could probably fill pages of why do I recommend playing necro, or what I think about different builds, but lets just not get carried away.

I’ve had a different experience with the mesmer. I had a far easier time leveling it and roaming while leveling then I did as a necromancer. This could be because I refused to run with minions when I was leveling. I haven’t gotten my Ele up to 80 yet and I can’t say much on that end. It seem to be a mixed bag for me. Its harder then the Mesmer was but not my guardian for leveling. Mind you this is personal experience.

For me, personally, Leveling a guardian was the hardest I’ve done. While the mesmer was the easiest. The Necro falls above the Guardian and at this point, just above ele. Engineer was fairly easy to level as well.

Doing map completion defiantly was easier on the mesmer then on the necromancer for me. I could stealth past most mobs without a problem. But this was also before the life force gaining increase, dhuumfire and torment.

Also, at this point I think we have basically agreed with each other but keep going back and forth. I’ve been trying to point out both good and bad aspects of the necromancer. Which is what I usually do.

knbBlackTemplar.3059:

In 80 group pve – necros are second hated class after ranger.

But, rangers have 1 good and usefull build even for speedruns. Necros not.
They dont´t deal rangers/warrios/thiefs dps, they don´t have good support (might, banners, frostspirit/spotter).
Only a little bit not 100% active vul.
And they are slow like hell. It´s cruel to do Arah with a necro.
Until the necro is comming the other 4 finished the fight already.

Norjena.5172:

knbBlackTemplar.3059:

In 80 group pve – necros are second hated class after ranger.

But, rangers have 1 good and usefull build even for speedruns. Necros not.
They dont´t deal rangers/warrios/thiefs dps, they don´t have good support (might, banners, frostspirit/spotter).
Only a little bit not 100% active vul.
And they are slow like hell. It´s cruel to do Arah with a necro.
Until the necro is comming the other 4 finished the fight already.

And still, people hate ranger more.

MethaneGas.8357:

transferring condis form ally to enemy is no team utility?

Since its not working for months now, no its not utility.

MethaneGas.8357:

nekretaal.6485:

Necromancer plays like a second rate engineer or second rate elementalist with more survivability, but no/little team utility. And the survivability is kind of a mirage. With no healing in shroud and bad access to boons like stability, protection, and regeneration, and no vigor or invulnerabilities, you can survive a bad play with your death shroud, but can’t heal up or escape either so the end effect is that you die anyways.

Properly played by skilled players, the necromancer may be the least survivable class in the game.

Very opinionated and yet very wrong. What Valheru Baal said about Necros is true. I can’t believe someone would say “no team utility”. Staff, anyone? Warhorn? Scepter? Dagger off-hand? Axe? All of those provide a nice sprinkle of utility, ESPECIALLY the staff. Fearing people off of team mates, chilling chasers and soon, transferring condis form ally to enemy is no team utility? Please. AoE blind (chill, if traited) through Plague for 20 seconds. The list goes on and on and on.

And about your last point. A properly played, skilled Necro doesn’t go down. Maybe you haven’t met any good Necros, or you met those that go into 100% offense and can melt you in 1 second but get melted just as fast when focused. Just a few days ago I fought a Necro that tanked about 7 people for around 30 seconds.

It’s weird how people say horrid things about Necros and yet, they are one of the most feared classes.

This is from a WvW point of view though. PvE is a different story described by one word: Epidemic

+1 this.

I found the whole thing pretty laughable considering my zerg build revolves around providing group utility (WoC, WoP, SWall, CDarkness, Warhorn, Plague) and is usually one of the last ones left standing. And I’m not even that good of a player. In MW2, I was fairly terrifying (how I loved my dual rangers). As a necro in GW2, I think I’m pretty average. It’s mostly about the class and the build, really.

Comparing wvw and pve is not really valid. In a pve setting necro has very limited group utility. The stuff it has is situational, sub par and plagued by long cooldowns and cast times. And epidemic doesnt solve pve seeing as conditions are so bad in pve.

Dalanor.5387:

Since its not working for months now, no its not utility.

Oh boo hoo.

spoj.9672:

Comparing wvw and pve is not really valid. In a pve setting necro has very limited group utility. The stuff it has is situational, sub par and plagued by long cooldowns and cast times. And epidemic doesnt solve pve seeing as conditions are so bad in pve.