Guild Wars 2

Yeah, ouch. Well, I sure hope that that double damage to death shroud was really fixed, because you just really hit us kitten our signature ability. They really need to slow down the DS degen inside deathshroud, but let’s see if this “buff” is actually a change or even godkitten noticeable.

I don’t know what anet is thinking anymore. Looks like 30,20,0,0,20 or 30/20/20/0/0 are the only good condi builds now, rest is all about going power, which depends on axe (great axe 1) and dagger. No cleave… again.

ANET if you can fix one godkitten thing, ALLOW US TO BE ABLE TO REGEN HEALTH IN DEATHSHROUD kitten , and you will actually increase our sustain without creating some stupid new OP healing ability. wake up and see logic

Cogbyrn.7283:

Maybe because it’s an unreliable and unintended means for preventing damage.

Maybe you’re going to receive another means of preventing damage to compensate.

Then maybe they should have held off on this fix until we have those tools.

As it stands, our class lies broken and dead. And knowing their schedule it will take months before we see any kind of compensation. This kind of harebrained balancing is simply not acceptable for a supposed AAA MMO.

Fungalfoot.7213:

And to illustrate my point.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Block

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vigor

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Evade

Note that every other class in the game is represented while one is conspicuously absent. And now our one way of meaningfully preventing damage is GONE.

Don’t forget Invulnerability.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Invulnerability

Cogbyrn.7283:

Maybe you’re going to receive another means of preventing damage to compensate.

Yes, they’re going to give Necromancers shield and shortbow for block & mobility.

If the terror nerf was for only the additional damage (the 50% bonus) IDC, still the same thing, especially since melandru got fixed.
Bye bye DS, i wont use you ever again as a form but just another swap (as in weaker ele).
Bye bye Swalk, im off from my wells to Sgrasp, locust, undeath/optional slot
Welcome overpowered 15 points into SR that will be mandatory in PvP
And i guess meh since mark side got increased i wont ever even try to dip into DM for pvp (kitten you training wheels and blocks, well i just run when i see a guardian either way since CB got nerfed unless lich and corruption well are up).

Roy Cronacher.1576:

We care about all professions. =)

What a total joke. (posted in warrior forums). PS this is a DEV response. RED MARKER ON above text.

meanwhile, now just slap on some healing/power/toughness gear on a guardian and watch how hard it is now to actually kill them with those huge buffs to healing scale. LOL. They will be cleansing and healing like mosters. freakin awesome.

Oh kitten , im a necro. F

Fungalfoot.7213:

As it stands, our class lies broken and dead. And knowing their schedule it will take months before we see any kind of compensation. This kind of harebrained balancing is simply not acceptable for a supposed AAA MMO.

Funny, I’ve been reading about Warriors being useless in PvP for literally months. It hasn’t ever stopped me from having fun with a Warrior and finding my share of kills with a weapon set I’ve seen maybe once on another Warrior in the past month or two.

From what I heard in other complaints pre-patch, Necros were getting crushed in top-tier tPvP anyway. And I doubt half of the people (being generous) who are talking about using DS as a block actually did it with any efficiency anyway.

I want to be surprised by the doom & gloom, but I guess I shouldn’t be.

Tenderly.7019:

From a high-tier tPvP standpoint, none of these changes really do anything to affect how powerful a condition Necromancer still is…

Any nerf this patch was is so ridiculously minor IMO

I can see what you are saying. The problem is and has been survivability, especially for necros that are not speced primarily for conditions

AND THEY BUFFED THIEVES, WHO ARE STILL STUPIDLY OVERPOWERED, SO THEY MAKE THEM MORE OVERPOWERED.

Why is this happening? Why do they favor thieves and nerf necros when we aren’t even powerful? We literally have NOTHING, and when we finally got a little bit, they just take something else away.

Revolt. Everyone go bash thieves so they can get the nerfs just so that they can feel as worthless as we are.

All the changes seem pretty reasonable to me (although no longer being able to jump from high places in DS is sad).

I recall numerous proposals on this forum to increase marks by 50% by default as a way to avoid having to consider 10 pts in DM as mandatory. And…now that 10pts can go to Staff Mastery instead, if you want.

LF buffs from spectrals, minions and weapons are good. (Wish they had buffed LF from scepter Feast of Corruption!!)

Damage in DS fix is good.

Terror damage reduction was kind of a poor fix to the Dhuumfire/Terror synergy (if that was the intent). But 17% probably won’t be too noticeable.

These changes really seem to help power (& minion) builds, but in doing so it does move us away from the attrition concept…unless they are considering the DS & LF changes as boosting our attrition capacity.

Tenderly.7019:

From a high-tier tPvP standpoint, none of these changes really do anything to affect how powerful a condition Necromancer still is.

Terror nerf was needed and it’s was very minor.

30/30/10 Wells
Took a hit as unblockable marks in PvP are extremely good and now these players will have to choose between Ground-targetable Wells or Unblockable Marks.

I personally welcome every single change, they’re great. Base mark range increase is what Necro’s have been asking for since ever.

Fixing the bug where we take more damage in deathshroud is amazing, I always had suspicion that I was taking more damage from certain attacks randomly but could never re-create it.

Any nerf this patch was is so ridiculously minor IMO

In practice that’s more a choice between weakening shroud and ground targeted wells, but yeah.

I don’t understand why you guys hate Anet for making you play the game by the rules. Yes, falling damage will kill you now.

Great marks – did that actually just happen?

Dumbfire makes terror OP so the solution is to nerf terror, huzzah, well there’s a big nerf to my already behind in damage 0/30/20/0/20, I suppose everyone will be picking up 30/30/x – which I’m sure must have been the original instigator

I’m curious as to why they felt spectral armor/walk needed changes, they are our only stand and surivive tools we have and frankly they are already quite far behind what many other professions have access too

Qol changes in the wrong direction, misplaced nerfs, bad patch

But they fixed a bug that probably been in the game since release don’t you feel better now.

Redscope.6215:

I don’t understand why you guys hate Anet for making you play the game by the rules. Yes, falling damage will kill you now.

Its not for the falling damage, the problem is that DS is out only survivor mechanic, read the thread.

At this point I just want the patch to land. I really want to see how staff feels with 180 radius marks, and I feel the need to test exactly how much HP death shroud is worth now.

wait a min, did they just said “before the patch, hit those necros while on death shroud cuz they get defense penalty?”

Redscope.6215:

I don’t understand why you guys hate Anet for making you play the game by the rules.

I don’t give a rat’s kitten about the falling damage!! I do however care that when a thief, that can escape at any time mind you, is behind me in WvW I lose my only way of mitigating one large back stab. I cannot run away as I have no escape; other that running into a tower or a group or teammates. Unless the DS ability has become as useful as a slowly deteriorating block, I’m a bit miffed and yes upset as to why they even bothered nerfing us.

Whack a mole balancing. I thought they were going to separate pvp and pve balance changes?

I guess I don’t need greater marks anymore; as they aren’t terrible without that trait anymore. Spectral skills are meh.

Redscope.6215:

I don’t understand why you guys hate Anet for making you play the game by the rules. Yes, falling damage will kill you now. Is it really that hard not to be a spazoid?

Wonder when they fix stealth bug. It’s kind of weird that sometimes you can’t see enemy. I don’t really see why death should take fall damage anyways. How can you kill something which is already dead?

Dhogoth.1856:

Redscope.6215:

I don’t understand why you guys hate Anet for making you play the game by the rules. Yes, falling damage will kill you now.

Its not for the falling damage, the problem is that DS is out only survivor mechanic, read the thread.

Plus in some cases shroud jump was a strategy. I was in WvW today. A zerg spotted me. I am a necro so I could not stealth, leap, teleport, etc. The only way I could escape was jump off a high cliff and pop death shroud. So I did and I lived. Maybe that is a completely broken strategy and I have a vested interest in it but I tend to think it is not near as powerful as other tools other classes have

Tenderly.7019:

From a high-tier tPvP standpoint, none of these changes really do anything to affect how powerful a condition Necromancer still is.

Terror nerf was needed and it’s was very minor.

30/30/10 Wells
Took a hit as unblockable marks in PvP are extremely good and now these players will have to choose between Ground-targetable Wells or Unblockable Marks.

I personally welcome every single change, they’re great. Base mark range increase is what Necro’s have been asking for since ever.

Fixing the bug where we take more damage in deathshroud is amazing, I always had suspicion that I was taking more damage from certain attacks randomly but could never re-create it.

Any nerf this patch was is so ridiculously minor IMO

Really ?… what rank are you if i may ask, or… what pro team are you part of ?

Did i see you in the last official tournament ? I couldn’t have… since there were NO NECROMANCERS in it, why do you think that is ?…

TheAgedGnome.7520:

LF buffs from spectrals, minions and weapons are good. (Wish they had buffed LF from scepter Feast of Corruption!!)

Specral LF generation got nerfed hard with the 1sec icd.
And now we have actual 0 ways to mitigate damage outside of evasion and blind.

anet, you dont have a godkitten clue. hire some people who can take an intelligent look at this class, and while your at it, slap yourselves a bit for this balacing act you got going on.

These changes aren’t all bad, some are good. And some just make things different. Some of the overreactions here are causing some non-Necros to come here and mock us while showing they don’t understand the Necro class.

Or maybe it’s best that we overreact so people who don’t understand Necros think we got nerfed hard.

Dhogoth.1856:

Redscope.6215:

I don’t understand why you guys hate Anet for making you play the game by the rules. Yes, falling damage will kill you now.

Its not for the falling damage, the problem is that DS is out only survivor mechanic, read the thread.

DS was being exploited to block more damage than it should.

Its called balance. Balance happens. It should be a bumper sticker by now.

Greater marks… Yay wasting more traits on most useless tree.

War Mourner.5168:

In practice that’s more a choice between weakening shroud and ground targeted wells, but yeah.

Ah yes, my fault, forgot that Focused Rituals is Adept now since June 25th, so it’s not even that big of a hit to the build!

Redscope.6215:

Dhogoth.1856:

Redscope.6215:

I don’t understand why you guys hate Anet for making you play the game by the rules. Yes, falling damage will kill you now.

Its not for the falling damage, the problem is that DS is out only survivor mechanic, read the thread.

DS was being exploited to block more damage than it should.

Its called balance. Balance happens. It should be a bumper sticker by now.

Because if it’s a NECRO blocking damage it’s an exploit.
Now I get what you mean.

Redscope.6215:

Dhogoth.1856:

Redscope.6215:

I don’t understand why you guys hate Anet for making you play the game by the rules. Yes, falling damage will kill you now.

Its not for the falling damage, the problem is that DS is out only survivor mechanic, read the thread.

DS was being exploited to block more damage than it should.

Its called balance. Balance happens. It should be a bumper sticker by now.

Hahaha exploited. Well exploits are against the terms of service and I did not want to get banned so every time my ds was about to go empty, I popped out. Just to make sure I wasnt exploiting.

Kiriakulos.1690:

Because if it’s a NECRO blocking damage it’s an exploit.
Now I get what you mean.

Now you’re getting what balance is all about. If a necromancer does something successfully it’s unbalanced since necromancers are intended to be terrible.

Fungalfoot.7213:

Kiriakulos.1690:

Because if it’s a NECRO blocking damage it’s an exploit.
Now I get what you mean.

Now you’re getting what balance is all about. If a necromancer does something successfully it’s unbalanced since necromancers are intended to be terrible.

But we are really good at being terrible. This needs fixing asap.

Oh let’s be honest: Half of you wouldn’t have rolled a necro if it wasn’t for the buffs back then. You know, those condi-fearmancer builds the cool guys have been running with.

Not that it matters to me.

Hint: D/D Necro Power builds for the win!

Kiriakulos.1690:

Redscope.6215:

Dhogoth.1856:

Redscope.6215:

I don’t understand why you guys hate Anet for making you play the game by the rules. Yes, falling damage will kill you now.

Its not for the falling damage, the problem is that DS is out only survivor mechanic, read the thread.

DS was being exploited to block more damage than it should.

Its called balance. Balance happens. It should be a bumper sticker by now.

Because if it’s a NECRO blocking damage it’s an exploit.
Now I get what you mean.

If Necros need to block damage, they should get a Block mechanic. Not some weird, mostly inefficient block that throws you right back out of your profession mechanic.

I still don’t get how people WANT that mechanic to be a thing.

Sepreh.5924:

Redscope.6215:

Dhogoth.1856:

Redscope.6215:

I don’t understand why you guys hate Anet for making you play the game by the rules. Yes, falling damage will kill you now.

Its not for the falling damage, the problem is that DS is out only survivor mechanic, read the thread.

DS was being exploited to block more damage than it should.

Its called balance. Balance happens. It should be a bumper sticker by now.

Hahaha exploited. Well exploits are against the terms of service and I did not want to get banned so every time my ds was about to go empty, I popped out. Just to make sure I wasnt exploiting.

“An Exploit” as defined by the ToS and the literal meaning of the word “exploit” are two different things. Go ahead and google the definition of exploit. I promise you it’s not a gaming term, it’s a real word.

Also, you do realize that using all of your life force in DS keeps the cooldown from popping right? That’s another big part of the balance….that happens…which is still not a freaking sticky on the class forums yet….

Kronosfear.7548:

Oh let’s be honest: Half of you wouldn’t have rolled a necro if it wasn’t for the buffs back then. You know, those condi-fearmancer builds the cool guys have been running with.

Not that it matters to me.

Hint: D/D Necro Power builds for the win!

Actually I doubt FotM necro’s post much on these forums. Most people who care about a class being nerfed care because its their main or they have been playing it for a long time.

Anyway i dont think the changes are fair for pvp, i do however think they are completely over the top for pve. I dont understand why Anet said they would split pve and pvp and they havent done it for anything that it really should of been done on.

Everyone !… Don’t panic !… the upcoming tournaments will come, and when skilled necromancers will either refuse to participate, or will get crushed, we will finally get our well deserved survivability.

Learn to play a new class in PvP until then, will be a fun experience… problem with this patch is that it ruins the proper conditionmancer build in PvE as well, which as it was it was a bit… meh…

We have precision/ toughness / condition damage gear yet in the toughness trait line there wasn’t a lot for us… now it may not be worth it to go tanky AoEers but full on weird (power invested) spite + curses conditionamcers, even though burning gets redundant really easy… and we don’t need it really in PvE.

PvP is a mess for the necromancer at the moment, and PvE conditionmancer just got weird.

Why… why did they did this.
Everyone knows the support and faith i have in this company, and how often i used the word “perfect build system at it’s core”.

Kronosfear.7548:

Oh let’s be honest: Half of you wouldn’t have rolled a necro if it wasn’t for the buffs back then. You know, those condi-fearmancer builds the cool guys have been running with.

Not that it matters to me.

Hint: D/D Necro Power builds for the win!

I haven’t changed my build in last 7 months.
And what’s the point of d/d necro with thieves and warriors around? Melee attack on a single target, what a joke.

Kronosfear.7548:

Oh let’s be honest: Half of you wouldn’t have rolled a necro if it wasn’t for the buffs back then. You know, those condi-fearmancer builds the cool guys have been running with.

Not that it matters to me.

Hint: D/D Necro Power builds for the win!

Well, i’ve been playing necromancer since the first betas was out and i have always just used my own builds as i find them more viable than some random build some dude made, but i agree that i have seen many necros pop out recently which makes me a little annoyed, because now they will just go to the next OP profession.

Cogbyrn.7283:

Fungalfoot.7213:

And to illustrate my point.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Block

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vigor

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Evade

Note that every other class in the game is represented while one is conspicuously absent. And now our one way of meaningfully preventing damage is GONE.

Maybe because it’s an unreliable and unintended means for preventing damage.

Maybe you’re going to receive another means of preventing damage to compensate.

I do love how people are magnets to the negative. One guy makes a claim that prods the sore knee-jerk emotions, and everyone latches onto it like they aren’t just feeding the perpetual negativity machine. I was hoping for at least 1 person to objectively evaluate whether or not DS as a “block” mechanic is actually dumb and should be compensated in other ways via my previous post, but it must be too soon to think logically.

EDIT – Also, it’s possible Death Shroud numbers weren’t necessarily higher, but the LF bar was taking larger hits than it should have from a certain amount of damage. So, if you test in and out of DS while just looking at numbers, they’re the same, but the back-end will be different.

Food for thought. And hopefully not food for more emotions.

Except they didn’t compensate it with any change that makes sense. This 50 percent more damage only helps little aoe hits it doesn’t affect the actual damage you would normally use your evades or invulns for so your argument is pointless. If they compensated for the lack of ds blocks with healing in ds or another way to avoid damage that every other class can avoid completely then you would have a point. As of now you are simply saying suck it up because hey a change might come down the road. That’s a ridiculous argument.

Don’t get mad at people who have a valid argument by making claims that aren’t valid. The 50 percent damage change does nothing to help us avoid burst hits except hey now instead of eating all 15k damage you can eat 7k and then die because the other 8k is going to kill you. or instead of eating that entire 7-8k evisc you can only eat 4k. The only way this change benefits is against rapid shots, and other damage that does a chain to hurt you instead of one big hit.

This is a lazy fix, and does zero to help us. The double damage needed to be changed, but the ds nerf was a bad thought with no counter to it.

On a more hilarious side-note, necros that are killed in one-shot with DS up should explode in a cloud of black fog.

or at least make my corpse explode in huge cloud of kitten fire that burns and corrodes everyone within 1200 range…. no limit

then we would be useful…. when we die.

spoj.9672:

Kronosfear.7548:

Oh let’s be honest: Half of you wouldn’t have rolled a necro if it wasn’t for the buffs back then. You know, those condi-fearmancer builds the cool guys have been running with.

Not that it matters to me.

Hint: D/D Necro Power builds for the win!

Actually I doubt FotM necro’s post much on these forums. Most people who care about a class being nerfed care because its their main or they have been playing it for a long time.

Anyway i dont think the changes are unfair for pvp, i do however think they are completely over the top for pve. I dont understand why Anet said they would split pve and pvp and they havent done it for anything that it really should of been done on.

I agree. My necro is a little happy since she does have some hope with her Fear skills since it is no longer reduced by stun-reducing buffs/items (Melandru Runes). Other than that, my build is fine.

But exploring PvE is a little hard now because (however minor most people think) we are no longer good at taking fall damage lol. I take issue here since it’s my necro who has the highest % of map completion among my alts.

Besides, a minor reason why I’m here is because some necro guys have been posting in the warrior forums (I have a warrior alt). The general mood is that it is laughable that other classes would complain about warriors. It’s like asking sympathy from a cripple because you stubbed your pinky toe.

In my opinion this patch was a wash in terms of buffs/nerfs.

Good
-Staff is now usable without 10 points in DM, frees up 10 points for many, many builds
-Life force gain buffed in lots of places, especially on Spectral Armor. Any build with 15 in SR got a good survivability bump
-Spiteful Vigor down to Adept

Bad
-Can’t survive a fall from any height without penalty anymore (can still survive higher falls than all other professions)
-Greater Marks up to Master, who cares, not necessary anymore
-Spectral Walk LF gain nerfed, could be noticeable during play
-Terror damage reduced to balance out Dhuumfire condition builds, expected, builds won’t change because of this

The only significant gameplay change I see coming out of this is more build diversity due to increased default mark radius.

Gryph.8237:

or at least make my corpse explode in huge cloud of kitten fire that burns and corrodes everyone within 1200 range…. no limit

then we would be useful…. when we die.

Which would be often, which would result in an actual use for necros, which in term would result in more QQ from thieves and other braindead noobs of us being op.
Dat vicious circle. XD

Nemesis.8593:

Really ?… what rank are you if i may ask, or… what pro team are you part of ?

Did i see you in the last official tournament ? I couldn’t have… since there were NO NECROMANCERS in it, why do you think that is ?…

Been below top 50, I solo queue all the time though, but how are leaderboards any indication? They mean nothing

I play on NA btw, and haven’t had a team for a bit, doesn’t mean there aren’t super-pugs running around tournie queueing and scrimming against high-end teams and/or other super-pugs.

Teams not playing with Necros doesn’t mean Necros aren’t good at high end. I certainly saw tournaments with teams running necros, on NA anyway

This is the most powerful a Condi Necro has been since the launch of the game in PvP.

don’t worry guys, necro still broken op.

I am absolutely sure that 95% of the people that dare claim necromancers deserved these nerfs have never been in a tournament game vs ranks 55+, not once.

The combat is a lot different… basically it’s a few moves all rounded in 5-6 seconds. They dodge block evade immune invulnerable block stealth then… stun daze moa ranger root stun stun knockdown daze KILL YOU then… they stealth charge / leap / teleport / blabla… then they run away.

Necromancer can’t run away, can’t escape… can’t chase… can’t survive guaranteed for the next 10 seconds until someone else shows up, unlike any other class in the game.

Basically it’s like this… you fight someone for about 20 seconds and using superior skill you go through 2 full on cleanses 2 evades 2 stealths / 2 blocks / 2 dodges / a few CCs and or some invulnerable / immune effects… THEN and ONLY THEN do you have a chance to actually start making progress. If your skill is high enough you can THEN proceed to kill your target, if you are still alive then…

You finally get him down… you are about to stomp, he teleports stealths knockdowns a few times and a few more fun stuff… which puts you at ~ 25/30 seconds about now.
Just as you are about to finally win because you deserve it… 2 players show up, knockdown you a few times if need be… you watch helplessly as they stealth/mist form + stability revive the person you just killed…

You proceed to run away only to have them on you in half a second… stun daze stun stun dead… by the time you can press FEAR you are already quickness stomped, or… and this is more likely, they will have stability…

Not only do we not have stability stomp, we also can’t delay stomps to prolong combat so that someone else shows up.

If you focus any class in this game, if they are smart they can escape, focus the necromancer it’s a free kill…
Now… it’s even worse…