Guild Wars 2

adozu.6398:

+50% damage while downed trait will really shien now, i could already deal over 2k damage with necro downed skill 3 (per tick), downed necro newmeta

Is it possible to win a downstate duel against rangers when their dead pet is healing by out damaging ?

If so, I think we should really consider a 1v1 (up to 2v2) downstate spec. Ping-pong into downstate into win !

Lol. So much complaining, and it seems like it was a substantial buff to Lich Form.

It’s like sometimes people try their hardest to not understand how something is going to work so they can complain.

Further, Dolyak Signet giving 10 stacks of Stability is only good for boon strip/corruption, since it suddenly makes that the go-to counter. They tried to make this ability such that it would block CC spam for its duration, so that removes that counter-play and leaves the other in a stronger position.

But yeah. This only makes it so I can’t drop Stab off instantly and fear-chain a Lich. I guess I’ll have to just jump into Plague Form and blind-spam. Either way I’ll enjoy myself.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Honestly? Having personally played a ton of mid-high ranked PvP since patch, and having watched the Abjured wipe the board with a power Necromancer repeatedly since patch, I can safely say that the pulsing Stability was a major buff and that Lich Form does not need more stacks.

That is not a good place to base your conclusion on honestly. They been playing in unranked lower tier since WTS. Players that have a hard time dealing with anything. Also Nos isn’t even the closest top power Necro in NA (actually not very good at it, I’m sure he will grow) and if he is wiping the floor, that tells you something about the level of players he is against. 1 stack of stab gets you instantly CC’ed. You might get off 1 shot, 2 if your lucky. Maybe 1 more somewhere between the CC’s and having to bail on Lich. 1v1, one stack is ok; 2v2 it gets iffy and then after that u r done.

Not knocking down Nos at all, he will get better. Power is a completely different animal than terror and I know he will get better with time. Just at the moment he is not that great at it. Same with Wakkey and shoutbow. Not that great, but I know he will learn and grow into it.

Lich was already plenty countered. LOS, side step, boon strip etc etc. Every team has at least a theif or mesmer or both that can boon stip. Not to mention other Necros/ guards. The list can go on. Now instead of being a pinball 5 – 10 seconds in, it is almost instant. Stab doesn’t stun break, you get CC’ed you are still CC’ed when the stab comes back, then they have 4 seconds to apply a random CC to you (to remove the stab after the first)and can use another to CC to keep u pinballed.

Before they tried to run/ los until someone boon stripped. Now all they have to do is CC and train you down.

People crying nerf must play another game. That is the only real explanation…

You have X amount of CC to face. Prior patch, without boonstrip, it was useless to CC a Lich. that means that the X amount of CC, the enemy team had, had been distributed amongst 4 players (or whoever was present at that engagement).
Now, with having the chance to CC Lich without the boonstrips, the X amount of CC is distributed amongst 5 players.
Yes, you may not have an easy time spamming 11111 and will have to actually pick your target/watch out for what’s coming to your way. I’m sorry, if it leveled the skill cap of the Elite.

But whilest you may have it arguably harder, your teammates will have more breathing room, as from now on, you will also be a potential target to CC in Lich.

Anyone who says that prior patch, he spent more than 3-4s in Lich being useful either

• a.) faced horrible opponents
• b.) was outnumbering the enemy team
• c.) is lying

Prior patch, it was popping Lich, dashing out 2-3 AA’s at best, losing the stab to boonstrip, getting CC’d, getting out of Lich into DS, tanking the damage and hope they run out of offensive cooldowns. In a team fight, at least.

As for WvW…if you were using Lich over Plague in WvW for ZvZ/GvG, I have bad news for you. It used to only serve as a HUGE target on your head, nothing more. It still has the same function…

oh well. the damage lich can put out is ridiculous. if they gave lich their cooldown back and as much stab as other elites then the auto damage would be nerfed. is it worth it?

glorius.1235:

Prior patch, it was popping Lich, dashing out 2-3 AA’s at best, losing the stab to boonstrip, getting CC’d, getting out of Lich into DS, tanking the damage and hope they run out of offensive cooldowns. In a team fight, at least.

Um no. You were doing it wrong. If you know someone on the point is going to boon strip you, you don’t go lich… That was common sense. You are willingly wasting it at that point. If there is a thief on point, you don’t go lich. Same for mesmer; yes there are others that can accomplish it but those are the main ones that have shorter boon strip CD’s). Doesn’t take a rocket scientist to know you would get boon stripped and then become a pinata. Now, no boon strip required, you just become a pinata.

“Letting your team breath” for 5 seconds doesn’t matter if you are now dead. Can’t breathe after that, when they are now outnumbered. Forces you to use Lich in small skirmishes only and takes a big team fight out of the question. Not saying that is 100% the case, because surprise factor can still get the job done; but most likely you are already the target (as you should be) and there will be no surprise.

You say getting more than 3-4 off before, meant you are playing low tier but that’s just not the case. If you got more off before you either A: correctly liched at a good time or B: Low tier. You make it sound like there is never a good time to lich and if you get more than 3-4 off you are playing noobs. Learn to lich better and you would have gotten more off. Nothing they can do at any tier if there was no boon strip around (besides LOS/ attempt to side step). If you chose a target that was close to a spot he could LOS, again you chose wrong.

I wouldn’t call it evening the playing field. It is almost completely making it useless. That is like saying MOA’ing a Lich evens the playing field when it doesn’t. Renders the necro completely useless and 95% of the time a death sentence. Rampage is just as OP as lich AND you look practically the same. From across the point you can’t tell much of a difference (unlike lich) and that guy will kitten your team. Heavy CC and massive hits. Rampage got 3 stacks. All I asked for is 2.

GhOst.4019:

If there is a thief on point, you don’t go lich. Same for mesmer;

You somewhat lost your credibility at this sentence. What you are stating here is that if the enemy player whose job is solely to counter you as the power necro does his job even halfway decent, it’s pointless to use your elite.

GhOst.4019:

“Letting your team breath” for 5 seconds doesn’t matter if you are now dead. Can’t breathe after that, when they are now outnumbered. Forces you to use Lich in small skirmishes only and takes a big team fight out of the question.

Again, small skirmishes, where your supposed hardcounters happened to be conviniently away doing probably a lot more important stuff, than focusing you down?
In an ongoing foight on the point, popping Lich from the top at Keep or the stairs at Foefire, will make the enemy team, as a response, leave the point and go for you just to CC spam leaving the point uncontested?
Seems like a worthy tactic…

GhOst.4019:

You say getting more than 3-4 off before, meant you are playing low tier but that’s just not the case. If you got more off before you either A: correctly liched at a good time or B: Low tier.

Based on your logic so far, it’s definitely low tier.

GhOst.4019:

You make it sound like there is never a good time to lich and if you get more than 3-4 off you are playing noobs.

I make it sound like that if your counter is even half decent, your “dream Lich” prior patch would have been shut down in 2 secs permanently from the start of the match till its end. Now, it cannot.

Are you a complete moron? I won’t even go into all of what you posted, just the first part. What you are saying is a Thief is on you 100% of the time because he has absolutely no job in the match than to be on you. LOL? So you die, he waits for you outside the spawn portal so he can once again be attacking you because that is his job.

He has other things to do in the match and 1 being the other zerker to take out/ decaps etc etc. He is not going to be on you 100% of the time and is not going to be at 100% of the points and fights you walk into. You are completely delusional.

Also I can’t help myself. Since when is all CC mele? And I quote “make the enemy team, as a response, leave the point and go for you just to CC spam leaving the point uncontested?”. If you are in lich…you are in range of the point. What do you do? Lich in the roads? They don’t need to leave the point to CC you. Go look up CC and look at the range on all of them. I think you don’t even know how CC works.

Every word that comes out of your mouth is complete garbage. If you think you get CC’ed less now, you sir are at the very bottom of the pool. If I get an infraction for this from you reporting me (Which I am sure I will) because you are so kitten. I will take it with a smile. Take a straw poll for me. Ask people before the changes on average, if they were able to get more than 3 auto attacks off. Something tells me you are the only one that had issues.

Both of you chill. You disagree, but that is no reason to insult each other.

The Necro forum has been very civil until the last couple of days. I’d appreciate it if it could return to that state.

Guess the civilized conversation is over. I’m sorry if I stepped on a nerv.

Bhawb.7408:

This is a buff in any situations where you would have lost stability, which was pretty much any time you would have used Lich against competent players. Yes new stability is relatively easy to get through, but to chain CC Lich you end up “wasting” a lot of extra CCs, whereas before you would have just removed stability and done it better.

Bhawb.7408:

Lich is far stronger now than it was before. The pulsing stability is a buff whenever boon ripping is present, aka almost all of PvP where Lich is worth popping. The only time this won’t be a buff is in WvW against hammer trains, which were also nerfed.

Perhaps I should have quoted other necro mains from the start, who have been known for playing necro in PvP, instead of posting from a different point of view as an ex-necro.

Balekai.6083:

Although it’s not as important to get that first boon strip off from the get go, It will definitely be harder to solo-counter lich pressure over 20 seconds (6-7 pulses of stability). Having to boon strip or cc a lich every 3 seconds to remove stability, in addition to keeping them cced and not DPSing, is definitely a buff overall against players that actually know/knew how to counter it.

Of course it’s a nerf in all those situations where players never try to strip lich stability and just take lich DPS in the face until they hit the dirt. Now players will be able to “accidently” strip lich stability through use of cc skills.

Or even this statement.

But you obviously jumped at my throat the first time the opportunity has been given.
So be it. What I was actually saying is that as a mesmer main, I had 0 issues with Lich Prior patch. With this change, it becomes a lot harder to be dealt with.

You would like 2 stacks on a 3s pulse. Meaning leaving only a 1s window for actual CCs to land, assuming you don’t eat more than 1 CC in 1sec.
Btw stacking CCs to get rid of the stab effect is a quite useless way to use them. Instead of having them to be chained to stack in duration, you will end up with less CC duration to land when you’ll have the opportunity to do so.

It’s a buff against competent players. Probably you will realize it somewhere on the way.
When that happens, you won’t have to come back to make an apology. You’re welcome.
Have a good night!

Trying to be sneaky in your insult is still an insult. All those post you quoted show it is a buff to boon stripping. Which is true. It is not an overall buff. To force someone out of Lich you must get him to low health. That is easy because you have no defenses to mitigate the damage in Lich. It doesn’t hurt a mesmer, engi etc etc who have very low CD’s on CC to btake off 1 stack then have someone fear you or disable you for 3-4 seconds. 3-4 seconds. Stab doesn’t break the stun, you are useless for 3-4 seconds depending on the CC applied with 2 simple CC. If you aren’t getting low health by that point all they need to do is do it 1 more time and you are done in Lich for good. That is a 180 second CD that was rendered completely useless. It is devastating to leave unchecked so if you think for 1 second those CC’s were wasted, you are wrong. You don’t even play necro and you are arguing the fact that it is buffed? Why don’t you go play it and come back and say how successful you are since you are so kittening awesome. Only way it is a buff is against a boon strip, nothing else whatsoever. Now more classes can render you useless than before. I am not going to argue with you about mesmer kitten because I don’t play it. Go get some experience first and then come back. Until then, kitten off.

GhOst, rein it in. There is no need to be hostile.

Sorry. Just hate how a guy that doesn’t even play the class is trying to argue stuff he knows nothing about. People come here for help and to discuss things and you have people like that giving out information on things they know nothing about. Wonder why so many people have a hard time starting off as necro and give it up. Too many people getting false information on what’s good and what isn’t. Stick to what you know. The Mesmer forums.

I wouldn’t say he knows nothing about it, he just has a different perspective. The topic is the same: the change to Lich Form. Sure, as a Necro, it’s easy to say it has been nerfed, but if fighting against it has become more difficult, well, has it been nerfed?

Outsider perspective is important.

Playing as a Necro Lich was buffed. Its been used very well at the top tiers of competitive PvP already, it is much harder to deal with now.

Inb4 you claim to be the defender of beginners…
you should really read what other people write – I stated that I’m no longer a necro main. that doesn’t mean I haven’t played the profession for months.
If you would be actually curious about my story, you would have checked my post history (it’s not even long as I tend to read the forums more than posting myself).
Had you done so, you would have seen that I made some quite lengthy and detailed posts regarding necro balance back in the days. Granted, not nowadays, but that doesn’t mean I don’t get on my necro from time to time to play it in ranked.

I’d suggest to follow Drarnor’s advice and let this one go. I will certainly do so.
My opinion stands still regarding the Elite. Yours too. I’d still have a lot to add to your last statement(s), as there are several incorrect argumetns in there, too, but seeing that you have a personal issue with me, I’ll refrain from that.

Let’s just forget that this has happened and call it a night.

Ya I will just leave. Can’t listen to this. In no way in hell did it become buffed. If you think otherwise, you don’t use it. Also, everyone AT the top tier has told me it is much more balanced now because it is EASIER to deal with on the opposite end of using it. Without comms, I am sure it is more difficult unless everyone just spams all their CC, because you don’t know who has what CC left and who is casting what with no communication. Top tier it is 10 times easier to deal with. I am not saying don’t use it. I am not saying it isn’t effective. I am saying it got a nerf. Which it did. It got balanced, and a bit too much.

If you have not used lich multiple times since patch for even a small sample. you have no right even being in this topic arguing one way or the other.