Guild Wars 2

Hello dear Necromancers,

A common complaint I’ve heard is that Necros can’t be mobile, have no disengage and can’t escape. In light of this, here is a guide/demonstration showing tricks that can be used with the Necromancer to achieve some interesting mobility options. The guide consists of two parts: the first shows the basics (important traits and utilities and how to use them) while the second shows roaming/combat. I realise the combat could use more text/voice to explain the thought process and strategy more clearly. I will work on that in the next video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhcaEyWW-sc&feature=c4-overview&list=UUqFKmVqiOjRdtU2gKWxdd0g

Traits:

The most vital traits are:

Curses – 20 points for Spectral Attunement
This trait will increase duration of your Spectral Walk (and Wall/Spectral Armor, if you choose to use them). Spectral Walk works without this trait, but it is not nearly as effective.
At 10 points, you can place whatever you wish, it is entirely optional.

Soul Reaping – 20 points for Soul Marks
To me, when using staff, this trait is simply priceless. It ensures you have a steady stream of life force and thus, increases your survival quite a bit. In fact, I rarely find myself without life force. I also like this trait because as a condition Necromancer, I don’t use staff auto attack much, only as a filler. It deals minimal damage and its only purpose would be to charge your life force. As such, I tend to use mostly marks, which now nicely recharge life force themselves. At 10 points, you may choose to take Spectral Mastery for reduced spectral cooldowns. Spectral Mastery is optional… however, I do take it. You could also take Unyielding Blast if you are in a power build and want more AoE.
If you REALLY don’t want to, you don’t have to take Soul Marks. However, from experience I found that without it, your Life Force will run out and stay low once you deplete it. Comes down to personal preference, again, but for me, I will never go back to not using it.

This leaves you with 30 points to spend wherever you wish.

Examples are:
30/20/0/0/20

I’m sure we are all familiar with 30 points in Spite – 30% condition duration and burning. This would be a very damage-oriented variation of the build.

0/30/20/0/20
This variation leaves you with 10 more points in Curses and 20 points in Death Magic. The 10 points in Curses are variable, again. You may choose to go with, for example: Terror , Focused Rituals , Banshee’s Wail (VERY good with Runes of Mesmer) and Lingering Curse.
If you are going with staff, the 20 points in Death Magic are meant for Greater Marks , which many people find priceless. The 10 points are optional: Shrouded Removal , Staff Mastery , Ritual of Protection (Protection on Well Cast), Minion Master (20% decreased cooldown on minions) or Spiteful Vigor (5 sec retaliation upon using heal skill).

0/20/20/10/20
Contains 10 point in Blood Magic and 20 in Death Magic.
The 10 in Blood Magic variable, depending what you like. A nice suggestion is Mark of Evasion , which will cause a Mark of Blood upon your dodge.
This mark will:
-Cause 2 stacks of bleed
-Give regeneration to you and nearby allies
-Reveal you when stealthed and dodging (bad)
-Be buffed by all your other traits applying to marks (large, unblockable, charging 3.3% of life force)

0/20/20/0/30
Here, you may choose to go with Deathly Perception (if you are in a power build), Foot in the Grave (nice stability against crowd control and lockdown). Personally, when I have Wurm and Spectral Walk equipped, I rarely find myself in need of stability, so I don’t feel the need to go an extra 10 points in Soul Reaping. However, it all depends on personal preferences.

Utilities:
Spectral walk:

Pros:
This skill is basically a double stun break. Its uses are countless.
-Stun break upon use, then teleport backwards as a “pseudo stun break”
-Allows you to tank a bit of damage by using it, then going into death shroud. Each hit you take (with a 1 second internal cooldown) charges your life force by 2.2%. (naturally it is 2% but with Gluttony – 5 points in Soul Reaping – it becomes 2.2%. Marks are also 3.3% instead of 3.0%, for example).
-It allows you to juke, escape
-Allows you to stomp
-Allows you to survive extreme falls
-Provides swiftness
-Provides life force upon use (From Spectral Attunement trait)

Cons:
-It deals no damage
-In many cases, it requires you to move – problem when rooted, slowed, etc.
-People can see your trail (although most ignore it)

Flesh Wurm: / Necrotic Traversal

Pros:
- Instant Stun Break
-Charges 11% Life force (10% + 1% from Gluttony)
-Attacks and deals damage
-Blast finisher and poison all around when porting back (useful only in a very coordinated team)
-Effective disengage
-Can be used for stomping

Cons:
-Can die, be killed by neutrals or players (not an issue with practice)
-Can’t conveniently be unsummoned without porting back – unless you swap utilities out of combat
-Has a cast time to summon (but not the actual teleport)
-Can glitch and not teleport (only happens on very uneven terrain or with obstacles in the way -not an issue with enough practice)
-Dies when going underwater
-Dies when transforming into Lich Form or Plague, or any other transformation

Weapons:
You’ll notice that in many of the build examples, Greater Marks are used. This implies that a staff is necessary, but it isn’t – I just find the weapon priceless so I always use it. The weapons are optional.
However, as an easy start for a condition Necro, you could start with Staff and Scepter/Dagger or Scepter/Warhorn. Both dagger and warhorn have their own benefits.

Off-hand Dagger:

Pros:
-AoE weapon
-Good condition cleanse (the transferred conditions deal damage too )
-Blinds
-Excellent AoE weakness source, especially now that Weakening Shroud was nerfed
-Nice damage with bleeds

Cons:
-Lack of crowd control
-Lack of swiftness
-Need to face the target to transfer conditions, which can also be dodged

Overall off-hand dagger is an excellent weapon and most condition necromancers use it.

Warhorn:

Pros:
-Provides swiftness
-AoE weapon
-Cripples all those around you, allowing you to escape from melee foes
-Charges your life force from each enemy hit (with Locust Swarm)
-Dazes people in a cone infront of you
-Deals decent damage with Locust swarm, which also works with on-crit effects, such as bleeds
-Very nice with life siphoning traits

Cons:
-Leaves you a lot more vulnerable to conditions
-Puts you in combat if you hit enemies with Locust Swarm
-It is a close range weapon
-Doesn’t deal as much damage as dagger and doesn’t weaken enemies

I use warhorn because I felt like I needed more control over the enemy. Dazing a foe gives me a breather to perform a few actions in peace without worrying that I’ll get hit (especially true with Banshee’s Wail + Mesmer Runes ). It can also interrupt heals and other powerful skills (also works with Perplexity Runes ).
-Another reason I really like it is because it allows you to tank. If you use Locust Swarm then pop Death Shroud in the middle of a few enemies, you will be able to take quite a bit of hits. If you couple this with Spectral Walk (which further charges your life force), you will be able to take a large amount of hits.
-It comes down to preference. Weapon choices will be different if you go with a power build. However, I don’t find a power Necro to be my cup of tea so my knowledge of the playstyle is limited.

A few tips:
First, it takes a lot of time, practice and trial/error to get your “internal memory” of spectral walk and wurm down. After a while, you will get a sense of when they should be recharged and ready to use.
-A general strategy is to cast wurm far from the fight, or a place where you would wish to retreat if things go south. Skeptics would say that the wurm will just get killed by this or that, but that’s generally not an issue. It is especially not an issue once you learn where aggressive NPCs are (and avoid them) and you place the wurm AWAY from the fight. I don’t know many people who will run behind enemy lines, while leaving allies to try to destroy one wurm. It’s not worth it.
-I typically cast Locust swarm and Spectral Walk, then Dark Path into a clumped group of enemies. They will all be chilled and crippled, then I go with Tainted Shackles to root them. You should still have a bit of time on your Spectral Walk to do a few things, like drop marks. You have the safety net of Spectral Walk, so you can port back if needed.
-A good strategy is to force your enemies to face their camera AWAY from where you used Spectral Walk or where your Wurm is standing so that you port behind them. This will confuse them and will buy you a few precious seconds.

Gear:
—For a condition build: Rabid, Dire, or a mix of both.
Rabid is more damage oriented because of higher crit chance and works well with on-crit effects, like bleeds/burns/torment. I use a mix of both such that my crit chance is at around 30%. Personally, I’m not sure I would use any Carrion on a pure condi build.

Runes: There’s a big choice here:

Runes are variable, but you may choose to go with:
Runes of Scavenging (I would highly recommend these)
-Overall provides the most condition damage, to my knowledge
-The lifesteal deals direct damage unaffected by the enemy’s armor (1k damage each time)
Runes of Undead
-Provides a bit less condition damage than Rune of Scavenging
-Provides more toughness
-Provides no lifesteal
Runes of Tormenting
-These provide some extra AoE damage when you heal, although I think the radius is fairly small. This rune will make your Tainted Shackles last 45% longer and will also apply to Sigil of Torment.
-I am currently playing with these, and so far I find them better than Runes of Scavenging. If you choose to bring Epidemic, and also have Sigil of Torment, you could stack up to 12 stacks of Torment on a group of enemies (3 from Tainted Shackles, 2 from Runes – when you heal, and one from Sigil of Torment, if you use it. This is 6 stacks on a group. Then Epidemic for another 6 to those around your target). Without the sigil, it’s 10 stacks – still very good.
Rune of Antitoxin
-This one is interesting, I haven’t tried it
-The 5 stacks of might would be applied when you use Corrupt Boon as well
-Makes you more resistant to conditions
Rune of Adventurer.
-Often overlooked, but they are quite good because of the dodge when you heal
-Could be good if coupled with Sigil of Energy for lots of dodging, although I wouldn’t recommend it if you have an ally who can give you Vigor, unless you want to dodge 24/7
Rune of the Noble
-I’d only ever use these if I have Sigils of Battle. You would be able to maintain quite a bit of might.

Each has its own benefits, but as an easy (and cheap) start, Runes of Scavenging are spot on, in my opinion.

Sigils – for condi:
Sigils are optional as well, although Sigil of Corruption is basically a must.You can stack it on one weapon then swap to another weapon once you have full stacks. The stacks will remain.

The weapon you swap out could be one with Sigil of Torment because it works with other on-crit sigils. So if you had Sigil of Earth on Scepter and Sigil of Torment on off-hand Dagger, they would both work. Sigil of Torment is the only one that stacks with other sigils with cooldowns. Otherwise they would alternate.

Sigil of Torment
-AoE
-Works very nicely with Runes of Tormenting
-Small chance to proc, so you need a decent crit chance
-Stacks with other sigils with cooldowns

Sigil of Earth
-Really good when you have at least partially rabid stats.
-Stacks with Sigil of Tormenting
-Single Target

Sigil of Geomancy
-Does additional power damage
-Need to be close to the target
-Can de-stealth you if you swap while in combat
-AoE

Sigil of Energy
-One of my personal favourites. It’s almost like you have Vigor.
-Defensive
-Works well with Mark of Evasion trait

Sigil of Hydromancy
-Works well with condi (or chill) duration builds
-Does additional power damage
-More defensive than offensive
-Can chill melee attackers when you need to run

Sigil of Doom
-Good against high healing targets
-Offensive
-Single target (could be nice with Epidemic)

Sigil of Battle
-Indirectly offensive
-I’d say it only pays off when you’ve got good boon/might duration (E.g. Runes of the Noble and possibly some Death Magic)

Sigil of Bursting
-Also quite good, similar to Sigil of Corruption, except it’s permanent
-Could use this instead of Sigil of Tormenting (if you choose to swap out the stacking weapon.)

A good setup for start can be:

1) Sigil of Earth + Sigil of Corruption / Sigil of Earth
-Sigil of Corruption can be swapped out with Sigil of Bursting or Torment when it stacks up, but it’s not necessary
2) Sigil of Energy / Sigil of Energy – if you are used to characters with Vigor :P
-Defensive, good for survival. Can time your dodges because each weapon swap = dodge.

I think that sums it up. I know it’s broad and there’s a lot of choice but… so is the build

I hope this guide was helpful and people find it useful. I will work on a new video showing some strategies more explicitly/clearly. If you have any questions, feel free to throw them at me.

Some additional videos, if interested:
-Has a few good examples in the first half of the video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxOc51oQmkA
-More of a fun one with just roaming
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfpSINTvXBk
-Old one, but shows some actual techniques
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XT45kZdZ3dQ

NERF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is all I can say it is just to op let me tell you all those freaking necros running it now…. tisk tisk tisk methane….

JK.. So I see you put up the build good job cant wait to see what everyone thinks.. Guys MethaneGas is a amazing necro imo and thought it was a great idea to help some necros who do not know some helpful hints of us stomping/surviving more.
I can say I run both SW and wurm but with a different setup and can tell u it even works as a zerker necro or hybrid.!!

Nice video and guide (your choice in music though…).

I don’t necessarily agree on your trait choices since i believe you give up too much damage, but i’ve been too used to a dhuumfire-terror-geomancy burst build to really give anything else a chance.

Monkeymonger.9235:

Nice video and guide (your choice in music though…).

I don’t necessarily agree on your trait choices since i believe you give up too much damage, but i’ve been too used to a dhuumfire-terror-geomancy burst build to really give anything else a chance.

What you give up in damage you more than make up for in survivability. Methane uses a really tanky spec if you run it right. It is good stuff and I recommend it.

Also he stole my build. True story.

also 0/30/20/0/20

Nice videos You make nice usage of Dark Path.
I have my fingers crossed because ANet has been talking around that they wanted to move couple Curses traits. Spectral A. might mkve to adept… That would be so awesome
Btw, you could make a guide about best Flesh Wurm locations. There’re few where Wurm works abusing the proper range, like some platforms on WvWvW when you can jump down with Walk, port back, then wait for them, jump down again and port back with Wurm. It’s hillarious

Haha thanks for the support

What Y Not said is true (with regards to survivability :P ). However, if you go with 30/20/0/0/20, you will still have the burns, just no the terror. Also, the 3rd utility slot is optional for stuff like Epidemic, Corrupt Boon, Signet of Spite. Overall, you may not deal as much damage as a burn/terror Necro, but you will be able to survive far better. You won’t have the extreme burst, but you’ll have a constant presence in a fight and constant damage output, which in my opinion makes up for the damage.

-If they do add Spectral Attunement to adept tier….. then burn/terror will be possible with this as well.
Hmmm I’ll look into Wurm location for the next vid. There’s so many :P lot of very nice, troll spots haha

p.s. I only stole your Flesh Golem Y Not

Well, sir, I do believe you have outdone yourself this time. Now if only it was as easy as you make it look.

I think Spectral Attunement is by far the trait I miss the most from my old 0/20/0/20/30 build. I loved the duration it gave on spectral walk, spec. armor, and the protection from SA.

With that said, I still juke people out using Swalk, its just not quite as easy.

TakeCare.3182:

Well, sir, I do believe you have outdone yourself this time. Now if only it was as easy as you make it look.

It is easy! You just run away like a jerk… but yeah, easy stuff!

Ynot.8397:

TakeCare.3182:

Well, sir, I do believe you have outdone yourself this time. Now if only it was as easy as you make it look.

It is easy! You just run away like a jerk… but yeah, easy stuff!

Coming from someone who is also well versed in the art of the neco

This was all quite well put together, but I find it far too self serving to run a build like this. SW and worm are both so clunk to use effectively, they can save you for certain, but they cannot always put you in a position to help support whoever you left in the lurch on your team nearby when you “peace’d out”.

Solo roaming great, team roaming…. I hope you are roaming with thieves and mesmers.

On another note, I full agree with the frequent use of dark path for repositioning, but as far as burning two utilities for a single stomp, while flashy, is hardly practical in any kind of protracted fight. You gave up your teleport, your life force generation from SW, and your SW port to land a single stomp. I will stick with plague stomping myself.

@Rennoko,
When you teleported away, in most cases you likely took a large amount of hits – which is why you had to teleport in the first case. The hits you took are hits your allies didn’t take. When you teleport away, enemies will want to chase after you, not your allies (unless it’s a coordinated team you’re fighting). Either way, all weapons are ranged, so you can help an ally from afar with ease. Staff alone can aid allies really well. What benefits the team more: being locked down and dying or escaping and recuperating to get back in the fight?

The two skills may be “self serving”, but it is comparable to bringing something like Endure Pain, Berserk Stance, Decoy, Blink, Judge’s Intervention, even Signet of Spite. I think the support you can provide to the team by just being alive and using weapon skills by far overshadows a single corrupt boon or signet of spite (altho those can be game-changing in certain situations as well), which can be taken instead of SW/Wurm. Additionally, Spectral Wall (if it is taken) is an amazing support skill as well. But as I said, the 3rd utility is optional, so you can still go with Epidemic, for example. But it comes down to preference.

Well, I didn’t write it, but I did mean to come to it in one of the comments. If the fight isn’t very favorable, you shouldn’t blow both escapes for a single stomp, unless it is meant to rally an ally, for example, or you have a plan afterwards. There’s many moments where you could perform the stomp but don’t because it’s not wise, but there are just as many moments where you perform it. And on top of that, you still have Plague.

Yeah, really well done vid and tutorial. But I`ve tested this myself for a long time, being a necro roamer. And I completely agree to Rennoko.

A power or power heavy hybrid will have to give up too much damage to not have hardcounters, that cannot be brought down without the right utilities and 30 in Spite. A condition necro would have to give up terror which is a no-go.

It`s fun for solo-roaming until you meet a well built and played warrior. You won`t be able to burst him, and he`ll laugh at you trying to scratch him. Same goes for PU mesmers. So in consequence you are not a real threat to the most played and dangerous roaming classes out there.

For roaming up to 5 man: Why would you ever go so tanky and selfish, utility wise? Your role is to turn the tides via raw damage and if your team is decent, they will provide the tankyness for you via boons, cc, stealth and the likes.

It`s an inbetween build that is giving up a lot for being able to bring distance between you and the enemy. The trade-off is huge. Your build doesn`t excel at anything anymore, which is not what I would want.

No offense at all, I was running similar setups myself, but ultimately, I just don`t feel giving up utilities and going that deep into curses is a good deal.

Best regards

Moon.6371:

A power or power heavy hybrid will have to give up too much damage to not have hardcounters, that cannot be brought down without the right utilities and 30 in Spite. A condition necro would have to give up terror which is a no-go.

I always run without Terror and damage is not lacking at all, especially if you go 30 in Spite. I run 30 in spite in duels sometimes and there is rarely someone who can bring me down – warriors included. Sure, if you go without 30 in Spite, warriors can be problematic (but not impossible, by no means), but if you DO have 30 in Spite, warriors SHOULD be a piece of cake… If they aren’t, the Necro is doing something wrong or the Warrior is simply more skilled. A condi necro doesn’t need Terror to deal damage. That’s a pretty big misconception. On a side note, some people have a similar build but with power (zerker), like Nightwrath.

Moon.6371:

It`s fun for solo-roaming until you meet a well built and played warrior. You won`t be able to burst him, and he`ll laugh at you trying to scratch him. Same goes for PU mesmers. So in consequence you are not a real threat to the most played and dangerous roaming classes out there.

That’s silly XD First, PU mesmers generally lack condi clears. If you play your cards right you should be the one with an upper hand. Personally, PU mesmers are no problem, but neither are warriors. Once you test the waters and see what your opponent is worth, you decide whether fighting is a go, or no go. Just as if you are playing a tanky D/D ele spec, or tankier guardian spec, you will be able to kill some opponents and not others. But really.. if you want damage, which I believe you do, then 30 in Spite will ensure you have it. This is why I have shown the different variations of the build. Different people like different things. Honestly speaking, the burns are enough to handle even the toughest of souls.

Moon.6371:

For roaming up to 5 man: Why would you ever go so tanky and selfish, utility wise? Your role is to turn the tides via raw damage and if your team is decent, they will provide the tankyness for you via boons, cc, stealth and the likes.

The role of the Necro in a team is arguable. The player decides the role via the build/playstyle. I really don’t understand what about the utilities is selfish. It is the same, again, as Endure Pain, etc, that I listed earlier. Those things are just as “selfish” and yet no one calls them selfish. It’s… odd. Sure, you can deal more damage if you go solely into damage utilities, but what use are you if you can be easily singled out and killed. Necros are almost always the first target, ESPECIALLY if you fight guild groups. Why? Because most are sitting ducks xD Running those utilities (SW/Wurm) makes you resistant to common things that Necros find problematic, and that throws opponents off. It gives you a persistent presence in the fight and thus, your damage output goes up, over a longer period of time.

Moon.6371:

It`s an inbetween build that is giving up a lot for being able to bring distance between you and the enemy. The trade-off is huge. Your build doesn`t excel at anything anymore, which is not what I would want.

The build excels at roaming and at outnumbered fights. The only thing you give up is the raw damage you would get from certain utilities, really – as mentioned earlier (but to be fair, you are only “missing” one utility, as many Necros bring Spectral Wall or Locust Signet, or something defensive). A single utility skill hardly decides your overall damage output. Picture this scenario.
Scenario #1: A Necro walks down the street with a few friends. He sees a larger group of enemies. He does his thing and out comes Signet of Spite, Blood is Power and Epidemic. Unfortunately, the other team cleansed some of the initial conditions. They see this Necro and promptly lock him down while he tries to go into Plague. The Necro is filled with conditions and a roots, but is stuck in Plague. Once he comes out, he tries to save himself by going into Death Shroud. Unable to cleanse any conditions and unable to disengage, he tragically dies.
-Scenario #2. He sees a group of enemies, sets up Wurm. He drops a many of his weapon skills on the group of enemies and that, along with the conditions inflicted by his allies are used for Epidemic. Enemies cleanse some of the initial conditions and promptly head for the Necro. As he is about to be locked down, he used Wurm. Enemies now need to travel another 1200 units to get to him, but when he ported back, he used Spectral Walk. He used Dark Path into the group and then proceeded to root them with Tainted Shackles. From there, he dropped more of his attacks and safely returned away from the fight. He still has plague, and the enemies have already wasted a lot of firepower. “Focus the Necro” didn’t get you very far now, did it?

No offense at all, I was running similar setups myself, but ultimately, I just don`t feel giving up utilities and going that deep into curses is a good deal.

None taken, to each his own
Although saying “don’t go deep into curses” on one hand and on the other saying “there is no damage” is a strange.

Well, as for Power builds, 20/20/0/0/30 is usable. In this WvWvW build, you skip Close to Death Trait, which is a big hit, but instead get amazingly good Life Force generation. When fighting for example, a good guardian, my traditional 30/0/10/0/30 may eventually start to run out of Life Force. Guardians have almost everything what counters DS Power builds – Protection, Vigor, a lot of blocks, dodges and blinds + very strong healing and armor. 20/20/0/0/30 is quite better for longer encounters due to that LF generation.

However I strongly suggest going for 30/0/10/0/30 with reduced minion cd. Proper Flesh Wurm and Spectral Walk require brain, especially when you run Power build which I like. It’s not as easy and spammy as our condition builds when your amazing skills come down to pushing Signet of Spite button.
Necro mobility comes from positioning, thinking and experience. You don’t have some stupid “oh kitten” button like stealth yourself, disengage from everyone with one button or such. Instead, you can do amazing tricks with positioning

@ MethaneGas:

I appreciate the efforts of explaining very simple class mechanics, but I`m not your target audience. As I said before, I did run your setup for a while and, ultimately, decided it is lacking a role apart from fooling less experienced players with unexpected moves. In other words: Your team would be (imo) always better off, more efficient and stronger with you not committing so many ressouces to work around the pityful escape options of the class, but instead just maximising and capitalizing on the classes strength: damage (doesn`t matter the source – condi, hybrid or power).

Additionally, any decent thief, ele, warrior, mesmer or even meleeranger will keep up with your very high cd porting tactics as soon as he identified your utilities. I never said, the build cannot work for your playstyle, but I personally feel the trade off is too big to justify the loss of terror, grandmaster spite or 25 curses.

It is a workaround that is fun to play with but is taking away from your innate strength as a necro.

Regarding not using terror: I did run almost every condition build, and in my experience one without terror is simply odd, because: you give up your most powerful USP, the fearchain.

I hope I didn`t come off to negatively, because I really appreciate the discussion but positioning, group support and awareness are outweighting the use of our limited escape utilities, especially when taking the trade off into account.

I personally i.e. run atm a glassy power heavy hybrid without stunbreaker, just 2,2k armor and I`m completely fine in any outmanned situation just because I can rely on my positional awareness and team to cover me despite being always first target. My damage will do the rest.

Your scenarios do not cover the entire picture, because a decent condi necro wouldn`t crank out all his utilities when the enemy has every cd ready to use and you completely cut out the allies you mentioned intially.

About the PU mesmer part, you`re basically saying the same thing I did: Your build is not able to fight every class, you have to decide whether an engage is worth it after testing the waters. I`m confident a more aggressive approach to utilites (and/or traits) would allow you to fight any class. Thats what I wanted to say, no contradiction there.

Best regards, thanks for your input.

@ Moon,

I feel the need to explain “very simple class mechanics” to explain the thought process. I, along with many others, have played this build for centuries. It is a simple fact that it works RELLY well. You can say you give up this or that, but it was mentioned earlier how you more than make up for it. I think you personally like damage, which is fine. If you don’t like the playstyle, it is fine as well, maybe it’s not for you or you haven’t mastered it like I have. But calling those mobility options pitiful is discourteous. Really, that means calling this whole thing pitiful, which is really quite disrespectful. Feel free to not use them, by all means, but there are many who will find it quite useful – hence why the guide is there. The guide is there because it DOES work, and it has been proven time and time again. It comes down to what a person personally likes. I don’t think the strength of the class is damage. That can be said for almost any class. I think the strength is the vast amount of conditions (not JUST the damage ones) than are inherent to the class. A glassy spec is one among many, as is true with every single other class.

“Additionally, any decent thief, ele, warrior, mesmer or even meleeranger will keep up with your very high cd porting tactics as soon as he identified your utilities.”
I disagree. First of all, in a 1v1 you don’t even need to run from those. But… If you’re being chased, alone, by either one of those classes by themselves, they will have a hard time catching that utility setup, especially with your cripples/chills. Sure, if you just use wurm and SW unintelligently and forget about all your weapon skills (i.e. slows/cripples), you may get caught, but most of the times you don’t – you either make a mistake, get jumped or they have to coordinate a whole team around you. And if there’s a whole group trying to catch up and things are not looking well, the chase lasted for a while and now you are near a safe haven, like a tower.

“positioning, group support and awareness are outweighting the use of our limited escape utilities, especially when taking the trade off into account.”
Again, there is really no trade-off. There is, but there isn’t. To me it seems like going all out on damage is the worse option, as those Necros are the favourite targets to focus down. I’d rather be able to live through hell and back than be locked down and die, or require my team to always support me. Your team can only help you so much and you often do need an “oh kitten” button. You can’t say with a straight face that you didn’t sometimes wish you had some sort of escape. Sure, now you tried it and don’t like it. That’s fine. But being able to escape means you don’t require your team to support you as much so they can focus their attention on offense.
—-So, case 1, you deal damage but require your team to stop dealing damage to help you. On top of that, you are being focused down and it’s impossible to deal damage to your full potential WHILE you are being the focus target. Not with thieves, warriors, condi engis on you. So already, your team is at a loss, as you are not dealing the damage you should be doing and they aren’t either because they are trying to save you.
—Case 2 – you are more self sufficient, letting your allies focus on damage while you are hard to catch. Enemies waste time NOT dealing damage while your whole team deals damage, and you also throw everything you can from afar. Both scenarios are good in their own way. Saying one is better than the other, or that one “gives up” something is a personal opinion. BOTH are good in their own way.

“Your build is not able to fight every class, you have to decide whether an engage is worth it after testing the waters. I`m confident a more aggressive approach to utilites (and/or traits) would allow you to fight any class. Thats what I wanted to say, no contradiction there.”

No build can effectively fight every class. That would be overpowered. I’m sure no one goes into a fight with 100% dedication with all damage utilities before knowing what and who they are fighting. More aggressive utilities don’t change anything. You’d still have to know who you are facing, what they can do, and now, you wouldn’t have an escape because you went with all damage – You would either kill them or get killed.
Besides, if high damage is desired with the build, 30 points in Spite are all the damage you will ever need while still maintaining excellent survival. This was proven time and time again during Fight Nights. It may be different than conventional burn/terror builds, it may require a bit of brain, but it sure as hell works.

You can absolutely run condi builds without terror. Most of the time I run without it and I squish most people I fight. The damage you get out of that vs survivability against a group focusing you is not bad. I wouldn’t use the wurm and warhorn, but just one of those is a lot.

That build is not selfish at all. That build is made to survive. If you can’t survive a group fight you are adding nothing to the group, rather than the loss of signet of spite. That wurm can be set up far enough away that no one will have a clue it is there and you can still deal out silly dps. All of our skills are aoe so it isn’t hard to passively kill a few people if you target correctly. The builds that most people use are just as selfish. The reason why they can be so selfish is because they can survive the focus.

That build is wonderful for roaming but if you want dps use dps. Switch out wurm for 1 signet of spite or corrupt boon and you are golden. Build still works just fine.

I could take the time to try and respond to more of this, but I can see that your opinion on your build is that it is simply better overall, which is fine, and no amount of discussion on my end would really sway you.

Spectral mastery is an amazing trait, but it isn’t as good as terror except for that situation where you needed the longer protection/walk to generate more life force to -not- die. It works incredibly well with 15 in SR. However taking worm/walk/epidemic means you don’t get much mileage out of that trait (or at least not nearly as much as you could if you ran wall and armor).

I personally get my damage in during terror, because that is when people cannot start blocking, go immune (in some cases), and frequently are out of or just don’t carry stun breaks. That is also when I setup my epidemic, to make sure they cannot dodge.

You could argue the extra 4000+ damage I would get in from the terror is negligible, but when glass thieves only run around 12000 hit points, and if they don’t go down in my burst salvo, they proceed to come back and backstab me for 7k, I will keep my extra 4000 damage, as opposed to longer protective traits.

I am sure there are circumstances where either build, the standard or your build would be better, however from my experience, mobility skills make up for poor positioning choices, and will leave your party members out to dry if you port away from someone on your team that cannot take the punishment you can as a necro. Unless you are 100% under focus, and they are completely ignoring your team, those skills will just cause the shift of damage burden from you to someone else, which may be fine, and it may get your partner downed.

If you roam solo, or with mobile partners… I bet this works great with a mesmer or thief partner, but I wouldn’t want to roam with you on anything else.

As far as dummfire vs. terror, if you were to drop one, I agree that terror is by far less damage over time, and requires far less to land (any crit from any source). I wouldn’t lean on it too hard though, as there is a good chance it is getting changed if you remember. Just like you can make a burnless condition build work, a terrorless condition build works too, but in the bulk of fights it isn’t going to help your cause.

I look at it simply this way…

When do I want more damage? Always
When do I want more survivability? Only when I feel like I am going to get downed.

Since I cannot plan on what I am going to get, always seems like a good choice. I will take epidemic/wall, the two by a large margin best group support skills and damage.

If someone takes worm or walk as the third utility, I think that is a wise decision, but both? No… that is too much to give up either wall or epidemic, at least in my experience.

Hmm, so what kind of gear would you use with these builds?

I’m also curious to know what armor/runes & sigils work well with this concept.

For those asking about gear and rune setup generally u can run almost any armor set up you want with this build and still offer amazing damage. Yes Methane is coming at this build with his condi side as I do not favor much on the condi side I play a zerker necro. Let me tell you all that I do in fact run this build on my necro in wvw as a zerker build. I generally run d/d but I spice it up a bit with scepter/dagger or maybe d/f or s/f yes the bleeds do not hit for a lot but my auto on scepter hits for over 1k a nice dmg each sec with a bleed is nice.

But I even use this build with my full celestial necro who does amazingly with it b/c yes the stats are overall but it still allows me to have a decent amount of hp around 25 ro 26k while still doing amazing dps.

Now yes all you burst necros out there will not do the “omg look he just died to 3 wells in like 5 secs build” this is a build that does take time to learn how to play and win with. I am surprised at how many think u lack crazy amount of dps with this build. I can clearly dish out nice dps with this build and still keep the high survivability.

So for those bursty people yes you can do 50k in 5secs while I can port out survive and kill u with my dps while all yours is on cd b/c u tried to burst.

@ MethaneGas:

Play whatever you want, man. Pretty obvious you identify a lot with that setup and feel offended, since you you`re trying to imply “not having mastered your setup” could be the reason for varying opinions. I considered this an exchange of opinions, not a competition, sorry for bursting your bubble.

Best regards

@ Rennoko,
Saying that mobility skills make up for poor positioning choices is odd, because most other classes have decent mobility. While I see what you mean, “if your position is good in the first place, you don’t need mobility”… but if a mesmer (who is inherently mobile) has to Blink out of a rough spot, was he badly positioned or was he ambushed? Focused down? There is only so much you can do to avoid enemies by foot.
- If you don’t port, you’ll likely die, and your allies will need to res you… which endangers the whole team. Once you port and if the focus is off of you, you can AoE the enemies from a safe spot now.
Sure, if you position yourself the best you can you may be able to avoid getting focused, but in an outnumbered fight (with 1-5 other team mates on your side, fighting twice the number of people, if not more), taking a large amount of hits is part of the deal. How would you handle a, let’s say… 4 vs 8 as burst condi Necro? What would you do to survive overall, and especially heavy focus fire?

I most often roam with an elementalist.

Yeah, wanting damage is always is nice in a high damage spec. But what use is having damage if you can’t live to tell the tale. Not trying to say burn/terror is bad at all, or that one thing is better than the other. Just trying to make you see the other perspective.

@Moon,
If a guy came along and said burn/terror is pitiful, as it focuses entirely on damage and makes you die in two hits, I’m sure you wouldn’t dance around happily either. If I was asked “Why do you think it pays off to take two utilities for a stomp, why do you think you should give up x and y and what do you gain from it?” .. Then a proper discussion can be had. Saying “you give up too much damage, are in a selfish build and leave allies to die” is no way to “exchange opinions”. I wasn’t trying to compete with anyone. Only intention was to show the other side of the story.

I have updated the guide to include the Runes As Nightwrath said, the choices are many, especially if you consider power and hybrid builds as well. The examples I provided are only for a condi necro… for now I shall do the Sigils shortly.

“Pretty nice” but what are you doing to catch up your enemies ?

Nightwrath.1679:

…

But I even use this build with my full celestial necro who does amazingly with it b/c yes the stats are overall but it still allows me to have a decent amount of hp around 25 ro 26k while still doing amazing dps.

Now yes all you burst necros out there will not do the “omg look he just died to 3 wells in like 5 secs build” this is a build that does take time to learn how to play and win with. I am surprised at how many think u lack crazy amount of dps with this build. I can clearly dish out nice dps with this build and still keep the high survivability.

So for those bursty people yes you can do 50k in 5secs while I can port out survive and kill u with my dps while all yours is on cd b/c u tried to burst.

Let’s not get ahead of ourselves. This isn’t a massively different build than the standard condi one. The differences are:
- giving up terror for spectral attunement. In my opinion it is a bad trade since you will miss the dps against dangerous targets (any form of dps/burst build). Your group will miss the dps when there aren’t any bearbows around and the “easiest” target is a bunker guard or mesmer.
- giving up master of terror for soul marks. Not nearly as bad although i only do it in spvp (when i get heavily focused) or occasionally in duels when i believe i have to facetank quite a bit or expect a prolonged duel (e.g. condi bunkers). It’s still possible to get the second terror tick.

Spectral wurm has always been a decent utility and i haven’t been roaming in a very long time without spectral walk. I’ve used them both in conjunction while solo roaming for around half a year now and occasionally in groups.
Occasionally because it very much depends on your group and the enemies you encounter. When i run with a group composed of mesmers and thieves and all we find that day are mini hammer trains i feel that i need the wurm to survive. Most nights though i’m better off running an offensive utility.

That doesn’t mean that i don’t believe that MethaneGas does nicely with this setup and i very much enjoyed the video. If it works out for him and his group then who am i to tell him otherwise. However you will miss out on damage, that is pretty evident.

Monkeymonger.9235:

That doesn’t mean that i don’t believe that MethaneGas does nicely with this setup and i very much enjoyed the video. If it works out for him and his group then who am i to tell him otherwise.

I think that’s what it ultimately comes down to- what your group needs and what you prefer. I roam with Methane on a daily basis and he is invaluable to our group. While it might not be everyone’s cup of tea, his spec is certainly effective and he has saved me and has single-handedly turned the tide of battles with it. Those who take the time to learn his set up will not be disappointed if they enjoy this style of play.

Cool idea/video but a waste of 2 skill slots. Using 2 abilities that are on high CD for 1 stomp? Horrible. It’s a cool little “trick” that will get you killed when outnumbered.

@pierwola, I usually find it enough to slow them with Scepter #2 and Staff #3, then follow in with Dark Path. Then I go with Tainted Shackles. It’s also good to run in-front of the enemy and fear them back in the opposite direction (back to your team mates, for example). There’s instances where the enemy happens to be running in direction where you started Spectral Walk or where your Wurm, so you can port to them.

@Monkeymonger,
You could still grab Terror by going 30 into Curses, but would lose Dhummfire. If you go with Dhummfire, you lose Terror… unless you give up Soul Marks -then you can have both. I’d never do this, but it will work, since most builds don’t use Soul Marks to begin with. You will find your life force at a low level pretty often tho… and in longer fights the lack of life force is felt.
If you are in a large group of like 10 people and are fighting even numbers, you probably don’t NEED that much mobility and can probably give up one of the mobility skills, can also swap a few traits around for more offense. There will be so much chaos flying around and you can just stick in the background. But that’s cuz you’ve got 9 people on your side who can defend you and who can take heat away from you. BUT, the build shines in common roaming outnumbered fights when you have 1-4 other allies with you, where you can’t just blend in with the background. That wasn’t made clear by me in the original guide.

@Brode,
If you used those skills for a stomp and you got yourself killed you just didn’t use it wisely. Why would you even do a stomp like that if it would teleport you back to hell? I only use it when I know I can get out afterwards or if I have full life force, for example (which is very easy with Soul Marks). It has its uses and can turn the tides of battle. If you dont wanna waste both utility skills, feel free to try the Dark Path stomps Also, Eles, warriors, engis, mesmers all use their “long cooldown” skills for stomps.

The stomp trick has been known about for awhile, but most don’t want to invest the long CDs into stomping. Best to let your thieves, warriors, and guardians get the stomps if you have them.

I won’t argue over survivability vs. damage. Being able to facetank with DS/Plague and having the option to port to safety when your defense is down or when there are just too many to facetank is good. Mobility is king when it comes to survivability. I personally prefer going with more damage and have my team take care of me when I’m in trouble. Having terror is great for putting the nail on the coffin when you spot the low targets from your condi spreads.

One thing that I don’t think can be argued is that it can be hard to make a condi necro movie look flashy, and I think the mobility stuff makes for an entertaining movie. And, that is what is most important. Right?

Monkeymonger.9235:

In my opinion it is a bad trade since you will miss the dps against dangerous targets (any form of dps/burst build).

Yeah, one way to deal with thieves is to hit them really hard when they jump on you and that kind of requires terror.

One thing I’d be concerned about with relying on spectral walk and the wurm is when you come across an enemy that thinks (I know, I know… but stick with me here) that sees what you are doing and starts anticipating it. An observant thief would actually camp out near your wurm when you are fighting and wait for you to port out. You’d be separated from your group so they would have no way to prevent you from getting stealth-stomped. That’s assuming you port out with low health and your defenses on cooldown.

Necros really need to have friendlies near them when they get downed.

MethaneGas.8357:

@Brode,
If you used those skills for a stomp and you got yourself killed you just didn’t use it wisely. Why would you even do a stomp like that if it would teleport you back to hell? I only use it when I know I can get out afterwards or if I have full life force, for example (which is very easy with Soul Marks). It has its uses and can turn the tides of battle. If you dont wanna waste both utility skills, feel free to try the Dark Path stomps Also, Eles, warriors, engis, mesmers all use their “long cooldown” skills for stomps.

I’m going to have to say it’s almost always a horrible idea, unless 1v1. Those other classes can get away with it becuase, they have multiple skills to break contact with.

Ele’s use mistform to stomp, they have lightning flash to get away or RTL.

Warriors…. do I have to say anything about them getting away?

Engies use that shrink thing, they have rocket boots to get away.

Mesmers use distortion… they have blink, decoy, torch invis, mass invis, veil to get away.

The best stomp a necro could possibly do is plague. However, if you ran epidemic and just stacked conditions on the downed guy, that would most likely have a better result and only use 1 utility.

I have a challenge for you since you say it “it can turn the tide of battle” Make a video where you use that trick in an outnumbered fight to save the day and win. I see you use it in your video, but never for a stomp, and most of the time you were not getting focused.

Also, 2 times in your video you could have used plague to stomp someone, instead you just used plague on them.

Oozo.7856:

Monkeymonger.9235:

In my opinion it is a bad trade since you will miss the dps against dangerous targets (any form of dps/burst build).

Yeah, one way to deal with thieves is to hit them really hard when they jump on you and that kind of requires terror.

One thing I’d be concerned about with relying on spectral walk and the wurm is when you come across an enemy that thinks (I know, I know… but stick with me here) that sees what you are doing and starts anticipating it. An observant thief would actually camp out near your wurm when you are fighting and wait for you to port out. You’d be separated from your group so they would have no way to prevent you from getting stealth-stomped. That’s assuming you port out with low health and your defenses on cooldown.

Necros really need to have friendlies near them when they get downed.

Smart thieves are pretty common whenever I try to use worm. They use it as a free stationary cloak and dagger point (freebie), and punish me knowing that if I DO use the port, they know exactly where I am going.

Granted I could leave the worm at home base, but that limits what I can do with the port, and draws into question a blink with a cooldown that long. Makes for great videos yes, but practically speakings its a lot of to give up for a minimal amount of mobility on a long cooldown.

MethaneGas.8357:

Also, Eles, warriors, engis, mesmers all use their “long cooldown” skills for stomps.

Yes, they use one long cooldown, not two… thats a big difference.

Brode.7689:

I’m going to have to say it’s almost always a horrible idea, unless 1v1. Those other classes can get away with it becuase, they have multiple skills to break contact with.

While some of what you say is true regarding the ease with which other classes can stomp compared to the necromancer, like Methane said, sometimes situations do arise where the benefits of a wurm stomp outweigh the drawbacks. Without going into too much depth on class balance, every class has to go through the same cost-benefit anaylysis when they expend resources to get a stomp. On my elementalist, I can stomp with Mist Form and Armor of Earth. However, those two skills are also my life lines. If I use Armor of Earth to get a stomp, it goes on a 90 second cooldown. It is also my only source of stability and one of two stunbreaks. As a class that relies entirely upon mobility to survive, one stun can be the death of me in an outnumbered fight as I have absolutely 0 tanking ability with 15k health and no way to move. Of course, necromancers and elementalists are quite different in how they sustain, but the general point is that every time you secure a stomp, you are taking a risk. It is your assessment of the situation and your implemenation of the stomp that determines your success.

Brode.7689:

I have a challenge for you since you say it “it can turn the tide of battle” Make a video where you use that trick in an outnumbered fight to save the day and win. I see you use it in your video, but never for a stomp, and most of the time you were not getting focused.

I understand why you would want to see it in action before concede your point. However, it is probably a little too much to expect MethaneGas to produce such a clip at your request. You cannot just walk into a battle and perform a game-changing wurm stomp at the drop of a hat. Those moments are both awesome and infrequent, but they do indeed occur. That stomp can be the stomp that takes out the dangerous foe that is giving you or your group the most trouble or it can be the stomp that rallies your ally in the middle of a sea of red names. Those clutch moments can make a huge difference in the outcome of a fight. For example, it is somewhat hard to see, but at this point in the video Methane posted, I used Armor of Earth to secure a stomp, and started taking too much damage so I had to end the stomp in Mist Form as it came off cooldown (I would have used Mist Form originally had it not been on cooldown). As a result, my only stunbreaks were on a 75 and 90 second cooldown, which would normally be a waste, but it was worth it in this moment because I rallied our support warrior and I knew I would be able to recover. Similarly, you may perform a wurm stomp that is just as crucial, but you might have full health and a full bar of deathshroud to help you recover from your loss in mobility. There are far too many variables in these types of situations to go over everything, but ultimately, while wurm stomping might not be something you wanna do every time an enemy downs, it definitely has it’s place in your build if you choose to take it.

Also, I just want to say thank you for being so nice in your dissent. It is deeply appreciated and I am glad that we can have a nice discussion even if we can’t agree.

Rennoko.5731:

Yes, they use one long cooldown, not two… thats a big difference.

That isn’t necessarily true in every case. The situation I cited for Brode above is a perfect example of when I have had to use two very high cooldown skills just to get a stomp. Sometimes the cooldowns are worth it.

@ Oozo and Rennoko
That’s an interesting point. If that did happen, first of all, I’d hate that thief haha. That kind of situation really happens so rarely… I have fought more people than I can count and maybe only 1% of them do stuff like that. Generally, if the surface where we fight is flat, I try to position the wurm as far away from the fight as possible – more than 1200 units away from me, so when I port, I don’t port RIGHT to the wurm, simply in its direction. Then I heal up. If the thief was waiting by the wurm, he would overshoot my location. If I did happen to port right to the wurm with a thief waiting for me… there would be a river of tears. Just kidding. I would hope that I noticed the thief ahead of time so I can mentally and physically prepare for my death xD But really, I don’t know. If ALL the defenses, dodges, life force, Plague are down, I’m not sure there’s much you can do. Depends how low you are and how glassy the thief is, and where your allies are.
—If he’s waiting where I used SW, I’d pray I still had wurm up (which I often do. I find it better to reserve wurm for last).
-If a thief is using wurm as a freebie to stealth, the wurm is a bit too close to the fight, although it has happened to me before.
- Last thing, personally, I think a thief just waiting for one guy to port back while doing nothing else could be wasting time. He may or may not get a kill. If he does, jackpot, well planned. The encounter might be won for the enemy (which will automatically place the thief on a hit list ). If he doesn’t, there is a LOT of damage that he didn’t do because he stood there waiting.
(I’m glad you the video entertaining)

@Brode,
I have a video I’m working on right now. In that very video, though it was a laggy night, I have a little section where wurm stomp would be perfect. Not game changing, but perfect. I take a lot of damage while I’m doing a normal stomp because I’m getting hit. Instead, if I just wurm stomped, I wouldn’t lose any health.
—Anyway, let’s say you are fighting a 2 v 4. There’s a glassy enemy and a guardian that are on you, and your ally is handling the other two, or something. You down the guardian, but your ally just can’t stomp right now – maybe he’s low, maybe he’s a bit too far, whatever. Your Plague is not ready yet. A glassy person is around, so if you do go for a NORMAL stomp, you will get a pretty bad beating. On top of that, the guardian will push you back, also very bad/annoying, especially with pressure from the other person. Instead, you can simply do a wurm+SW stomp and get it over with. One enemy down, and you’re alive as ever. On top of that, you got life force from using SW (from Spectral Attunement), Wurm, and enemy’s death.

As for Plague stomp. Whereas Plague stomp is nice, using an elite skill merely to stomp someone is equally as…interesting. How’s 180 secs for a really long cooldown xD Sure, at a certain point in time, like when you are still surrounded by an army, and you use it, you will get a stomp and still get the use of Plague -which is perfect. But again, while it is nice, it’s ALSO situational and it’s ALSO a huge cooldown. Maybe you will take too much fire by doing a Plague stomp and instead want to port to safety, and port back in for a clean stomp. I’m not saying one is better than the other, I love em both.
-Another interesting thing is – one one hand, we have people saying that you will lose focus fire when teleporting away and that your allies will become targets instead, and on the other other hand, we have people saying that you will immediately regain focus fire when coming back. Maybe the focus wouldn’t even be on you when you port back in and you can just walk away.

Also: Armor of Earth has almost as high a cooldown as wurm+SW combined.

I love mobility builds in all the classes I play (GS on warrior / ranger, meditations on guardian), and have been trying to make my newly 80 necro much more mobile than she currently is (she’s norn so my elite in small man group is snow leopard for the trollish gap closer/opener + invis). I’m seriously going to give this a try and see how it feels. Just watching people do the backpedal spin around looking for you when you were porting is comedic gold.

TakeCare.3182:

First part. We are agreeing that those skills are lifelines, so using 2 of them for 1 stomp is horrible. Also, when that stomp could be used as an epidemic target and his method of stomping isn’t even a 100% stomp.

Second part. That’s why it’s a challenge to him. Also, that’s a cool story bro. However, you had a guaranteed stomp (if you didn’t die) with 1 skill, it just so happened that you needed to use 2 for the stomp.

@MethaneGas
If I were you and you had a guardian down with a glassy person near you, I would stack conditions on both/the downed guardian and epidemic him. They both die, you go help kill the other 2.

Also, your little trick doesn’t work 100% of the time. I’ve stopped thieves 100s of times from doing their shadowstep stomps. Here’s a video for you.

There goes your 2 wasted skills.

Now Plague stomp. Here in your own video, you could have gotten a guaranteed stomp with it, instead of just using it without a stomp. There was another spot in your video as well, but didn’t feel like searching for it.

http://youtu.be/fhcaEyWW-sc?t=8m1s

Edit: Oh just a tip, you don’t have to keep pressing #2 or whatever you’re using in Plague. Just press it once and you’re set.

Just want to throw in my opinion here.

I’m a big fan of condi necro, I like roaming because it’s challenging gameplay which is lacking in this game and it allows you to push yourself with 1v2s and such. I’m also an avid student of Rennoko and have learned a lot from his vids.

I usually run 30/20/0/0/20 with either full rabid(undead) or dire armour(scavenger) with rabid everything(earth and torment on weapons) else Scepter/Dagger/Staff with Swalk, Bip and consume conditions and it’s an awesome build, you can literally 1v1 any class and pull off most 1v2s or even sometimes 1v3s. While duo roaming with my mes/thief friend, not much is able to stop us. The reason I take Swalk instead of Swall is because I find it invaluable when fighting strong melee builds like stunlock warriors (Think of the end fight scene in the Chronicles of Ridkitten) which would otherwise destroy me. As much as I like this build, I’m going to list some issues I found with it.

1. It is kittening strong. As I said before I enjoy challenging gameplay, but after a while roaming you start to see that not everyone is an amazing super ninja and most people are just really really bad, many times it takes little more than an auto attack chain to down people. (if they even stay to fight, most just run away) It’s gotten to a point where a lot of the time I don’t finish people because I feel bad about how easy it was to down them. I’m not going to say it’s OP, but no one can deny it’s ridiculously strong.

2. The focus. Being a necro in smallscale wvw is like carrying around a big pointing neon arrow with a sign that says “Shoot me”. In a group fight, 12 times out of 10 people will choose to focus you. It’s the reason I tried out a dire set, a fair few times in fights I would have to rely on the shelter/mass invis from my thief/mes friend to res me because I would go down in 2v3/4, they just totally ignore him and focus me. Necro has some great survivability but once plague and all your lF is gone you don’t get very far with 3 or 4 people in your face.

3. Lack of escapes. As I said before I mostly roam with my mes/thief friend. If we are losing a fair fight we don’t run away and just accept defeat, we do run when a bunch of other people join the fight, no surprise how it usually goes down when we run, he’s able to shadow step/blink and stealth away, I’m only able to get so far before the stealth runs out before the accumulated karma of scepter autoattacking innocent map completionists to death comes crashing down on my head.

When I did some Spvp with my necro back in the day, I had a lot of fun with Swalk/dark path, even though I was a total noob I really liked the mechanic and always thought it has the potential to pull of some crazy kitten that people wouldn’t necessarily be expecting from a necro. I never thought much of the flesh wurm, as it was stated earlier in this thread, it felt too “clunky” to use effectively.

Inspired by this thread and those issues I mentioned previously, I decided to switch up my build a bit just to try something new because why not, it costs a total of 6s to try it and switch back. I’m running 20/30/0/0/20 now dire/rabid, switched out sigil of torment for bursting and taking Swalk, wurm, and consume conditions. I’ve only been playing it for about a day but here are my observations.

With no dhuumfire, I don’t feel so cheesy anymore, although I still have a high damage output I’m not melting people as fast as before. I’m still focused but with the added ability to “juke” with the wurm and increased LF gain through staff marks coupled with the 5% using Swalk has made a noticeable difference. I summon the wurm before I initiate (depending on the situation) and it has allowed me to escape with my life when it’s been time to bail where I otherwise would have had no choice but to die. A lot of the time I don’t need to pop it and just leave it there so I’m able to teleport some distance in future engagements (Which I’m quite sure I’ve been reported for teleport hacking due to them having no idea there was a wurm). As for Swalk/Wurm stomping, it has it’s uses, and it’s not like you have to do it, the wurm is already up before the fight so if you see you wont be able to finish the stomp for whatever reason you can just do it if you see that it’s worth it. It’s not really a case of popping 2 CDs to pull it off, you have the wurm as an escape/juke, if you see you are winning/could win if you kill this guy then you no longer need your escape so you might as well use it.

I haven’t decided which build I like more and I’m not trying to say one is better than the other or anything, but the play style on the new build is interesting so I will keep experimenting with it for a while.

Brode.7689:

TakeCare.3182:

First part. We are agreeing that those skills are lifelines, so using 2 of them for 1 stomp is horrible. Also, when that stomp could be used as an epidemic target and his method of stomping isn’t even a 100% stomp.

Second part. That’s why it’s a challenge to him. Also, that’s a cool story bro. However, you had a guaranteed stomp (if you didn’t die) with 1 skill, it just so happened that you needed to use 2 for the stomp.

@MethaneGas
If I were you and you had a guardian down with a glassy person near you, I would stack conditions on both/the downed guardian and epidemic him. They both die, you go help kill the other 2.

Also, your little trick doesn’t work 100% of the time. I’ve stopped thieves 100s of times from doing their shadowstep stomps. Here’s a video for you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjzhsAxA6Ho

There goes your 2 wasted skills.

Now Plague stomp. Here in your own video, you could have gotten a guaranteed stomp with it, instead of just using it without a stomp. There was another spot in your video as well, but didn’t feel like searching for it.

http://youtu.be/fhcaEyWW-sc?t=8m1s

Edit: Oh just a tip, you don’t have to keep pressing #2 or whatever you’re using in Plague. Just press it once and you’re set.

Yeah, if someone sees what you are doing it can be countered either deliberately or randomly. I’m not a fan of using long cooldowns to get a stomp unless it’s a rally situation or something like that.

I think the best thing about the walk/wurm set up is the ability to shed focus, not really for the gimmick stomps. I suspect that just a simple dagger 4 to blind will net you just about as many stomps with no utility investment and on a much shorter cooldown.

“(Think of the end fight scene in the Chronicles of Ridkitten)” I am doing a search for The Chronicles of RIDKITTEN right now! :P Haha love that auto fix.

Hello Brode,
— The Epidemic strategy is good. Downed people and NPCs are really good sources for epidemic. However, you are making a few assumptions:

-First that your epidemic is recharged and that you didn’t use it to down the guardian to begin with. If you wish to wait another 15 seconds for it, go right ahead. -Second, if you are assuming you are fighting a melee opponent, which you have to maneuver close to the downed person so marks can trigger, etc., which would take time. He’s glassy, he isn’t just standing there, you may need to use your slows, fears to defend yourself.
-Third, you are assuming you are NOT fighting a ranged person. With a ranged person, like a ranger, good luck using your Epidemic combo – waste of a skill, as well as your weapon skills on one downed person who you could have simply finished off. While you waste your skills on the downed guy, the glassy range is wasting you.

Another thing – watching someone else’s video and nit-picking “you should have done this” is kinda… interesting. That could be done with anyone’s video. You think I’m not aware of most of those situations myself after watching? Any normal person knows that in the heat of battle your mind isn’t going slow motion and you can’t think of every possible thing you can do. Thanks for the suggestion tho
I don’t know why someone would go through all the trouble saying something’s bad when it clearly isn’t. If you dislike that kind of stomp, no one is forcing you to use it.

As for your “fail” video. I don’t know if that was you or not, but that was clearly meant to debunk the usefulness of the stomp because it was done by an inexperienced person (it might as well have been staged), which is really…silly. Tip: You should teleport back as your guy reaches the floor. The stomp would be near 100% guarantee. (please refer to http://youtu.be/fhcaEyWW-sc?t=5m52s – 5:52 in the video – THAT’s a proper SW+Wurm stomp.)

@reign,
You make some excellent points. I’m glad you are trying it out. It’s definitely not as “glassy” as the full-damage setup, but it is different in that you can escape and survive situations that Necros usually can’t. I’m interested in how it goes.
I’m glad people are trying it out