Guild Wars 2

Gaiyeerishima Cat.1082:

You guys are ignoring the fact that it is a healing skill which provides damage.

We don’t need more damage. We need sustainability. We have been saying this since before the dhuumfire incident of 2013

Not exactly. The devs would only look at the stats UI to double-check values, not as a significant part of their job. What purpose could there be to memorize that layout when spending just a couple seconds to find what you want will do?

Sepreh.5924:

Gaiyeerishima Cat.1082:

You guys are ignoring the fact that it is a healing skill which provides damage.

We don’t need more damage. We need sustainability. We have been saying this since before the dhuumfire incident of 2013

This all day

It’s to keep it 5 people get your heal/damage from hitting the target. There’s a 1sec ICD.

So, first off, its a signet. It goes in your #6 slot and it’ll proc the new Runes of Resistance set.

The passive effect is every time some someone hits you, you syphon them. Its like perma-retaliation with evil sprinkled on top.

The active effect is you clap 25 stack of “Kill this guy right HERE” on the target, and each time they are hit by anyone, one of those stacks goes away and they attacker syphons them once. After getting syphoned 25 times, the mark over their head goes away.

There’s still some very important questions about timing: does the passive have an internal cooldown? How long until the 25 stacks of ‘it literally sucks to be you’ expire if they aren’t used up?

But mostly it sounds like an insane amount of fun .

Nike.2631:

So, first off, its a signet. It goes in your #6 slot and it’ll proc the new Runes of Resistance set.

The passive effect is every time some someone hits you, you syphon them. Its like perma-retaliation with evil sprinkled on top.

The active effect is you clap 25 stack of “Kill this guy right HERE” on the target, and each time they are hit by anyone, one of those stacks goes away and they attacker syphons them once. After getting syphoned 25 times, the mark over their head goes away.

There’s still some very important questions about timing: does the passive have an internal cooldown? How long until the 25 stacks of ‘it literally sucks to be you’ expire if they aren’t used up?

But mostly it sounds like an insane amount of fun .

Few things you forgot:

1. It doesn’t siphon when someone hits you, it only heals you. And it only does that once per second maximum (1 second ICD).

2. The cast time is long at 1-1/4 seconds.

3. The active portion does lousy damage, even if all 25 stacks get consumed (which usually takes at least 6 people). Only ~5k damage dealt from all stacks being consumed. This is further worsened by the fact each attacker also has a 1 second ICD for consuming stacks of the mark.

4. A 5 second window (mark duration) is not long at all.

5. A 35 second cooldown means it suffers terribly if you don’t make max use of it. Even if you do manage to somehow get the maximum heal yourself, it’s only 5.2 k, which is the base heal for Consume Conditions.

TLDR: the new skill is outdone in every situation by something we already have. Do yourself a favor and don’t bother with Runes of Resistance on a necro, trying to justify it with this terrible skill.

Nike.2631:

So, first off, its a signet. It goes in your #6 slot and it’ll proc the new Runes of Resistance set.

The passive effect is every time some someone hits you, you syphon them. Its like perma-retaliation with evil sprinkled on top.

The active effect is you clap 25 stack of “Kill this guy right HERE” on the target, and each time they are hit by anyone, one of those stacks goes away and they attacker syphons them once. After getting syphoned 25 times, the mark over their head goes away.

There’s still some very important questions about timing: does the passive have an internal cooldown? How long until the 25 stacks of ‘it literally sucks to be you’ expire if they aren’t used up?

But mostly it sounds like an insane amount of fun .

Thanks to the nerfs to what was already an average at best heal it now is pathetic. Easily the worst of the new heals and the WEAKEST heal is the one they decide to nerf…

Mesmer gets about 1,000heal every 3 seconds as well as heal when skill is used and refresh of Phantasm attacks – That makes this “heal” like like a joke. warriors get a VERY strong heal so do pretty much EVERYONE bar Necro -.-

I didn’t have a full set of numbers, so seeing more is helpful. 1 second cooldown on the heal is a bit embarrassing – I thought it was also a syphon, so hmm… some missed potential there.

Even if hard to use, that’s still one of the most damaging of all #6’s .

I’ll look it over closely once we have the actual numbers. There may yet be some clever combinations using it. It doesn’t have to be strictly better than what we have now, simply by virtue of being different it may enable a new spec.

If you want more damage, you do better with Blood Fiend and using that 1-1/4 seconds to do something else. A necro can add more damage than 5k with a different skill in the same amount of time, and doing that doesn’t require the aid of 5 other people all hitting the same target for a full five seconds.

They nerfed the skill to which there is no possible situation where we don’t have a better healing skill already. “Different” does not enable new specs. “Situationally good” can. Unfortunately, Signet of Vampirism as was previewed only falls into the former category and is never a better choice. Ergo, it cannot produce any new specs or strategies that are worth anything. Any specs that use it and are good are good despite the skill, not because of it.

Tenderly.7019:

Gee, thanks.

<3, sorry, Zombify’s biceps are bigger.

Zenith.7301:

You can’t be serious. In PvE, in high level fractals and some dungeons like a Arah, you can get 1-2 shot.

This signet will be the least viable in PvE where something like the Ascalonian mages in fractals can autoattack you for 8-9k damage each.

The concept of a heal that requires getting hit is just dumb. If anything, it should have been necromancers who got that warrior heal as “vampirism”.

Not all of PvE is hard, at all. A good portion of dungeons (the easier ones) have teams just LoS the boss and stack up in melee and roll their faces over the keyboard repeatedly (or just twice if you’re a warrior) until its dead. In those situations, I’ve often found myself barely even needing a heal at all, and it is possible that in certain very niche builds that activating this signet will increase how quickly the boss is killed by like 0.1%. (I’m sure you’re aware of all that)

I didn’t say it would be good. I said it would be passable in a few niche builds/situations. Very different concepts.

Both the active and passive got a 1 second ICD and the active is on the target for 5 seconds. If you cant use all the 25 stacks … bad for you. And the passive wont do any damage anymore, just heals.

Nike.2631:

I didn’t have a full set of numbers, so seeing more is helpful. 1 second cooldown on the heal is a bit embarrassing – I thought it was also a syphon, so hmm… some missed potential there.

Even if hard to use, that’s still one of the most damaging of all #6’s .

I’ll look it over closely once we have the actual numbers. There may yet be some clever combinations using it. It doesn’t have to be strictly better than what we have now, simply by virtue of being different it may enable a new spec.

The active can be dodged, the attacks can be dodged, you can be CCed all of which would result in the whole thing be wasted. The whole skill is pathetic, the healing from the Passive is a JOKE having to get HIT in order to “heal” yeah that makes sense, Unless the heal is like 500-600 it will be wasted and even then it has a ICD.

No one should use this skill, ever. Even before the nerfed into laughing stock the “heal” wasnt even that great. Now its less than useless.

Blood Fiend is a better damage/sustain skill (god forbid you trait him, and he gets even better)
Well of Blood is literally 5x better of a support skill for team-healing (with high healing power)
Consume Conditions is just… better.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Not exactly. The devs would only look at the stats UI to double-check values, not as a significant part of their job. What purpose could there be to memorize that layout when spending just a couple seconds to find what you want will do?

Devs will generally know the deeper inner workings of certain mechanics that we cannot see (a dev knew DS was 60% while we were still confused because of in-game performance), players will generally have more knowledge of what they do overall though (like their class).

I could pretty much guarantee that I have more knowledge of minions than anyone on the dev team. The same could be said of many “hardcore” necros, many of us know a lot about our class because it is all we deal with, for hours a day, whereas a developer deals with 8 professions all the time.

Phenn.5167:

What bugs me is the stream of hype that comes from the dev team on these skills and then they’re not even worth considering. I just…don’t understand. When I heard the initial description I got excited and rightfully so. But now it’s a joke. I’m beginning to wonder if the skill/balance dev team even plays the game. They certainly don’t seem to understand how the synergies and builds work with regard to high level play. I just…don’t understand.

They do. But as the demo stream showed, they do so as warriors and guardians (they knew exactly what traits to pick to make the new guardian meditation heal heal for a massive amount during the demo)…

Bhawb.7408:

Tenderly.7019:

Gee, thanks.

<3, sorry, Zombify’s biceps are bigger.

Zenith.7301:

You can’t be serious. In PvE, in high level fractals and some dungeons like a Arah, you can get 1-2 shot.

This signet will be the least viable in PvE where something like the Ascalonian mages in fractals can autoattack you for 8-9k damage each.

The concept of a heal that requires getting hit is just dumb. If anything, it should have been necromancers who got that warrior heal as “vampirism”.

Not all of PvE is hard, at all. A good portion of dungeons (the easier ones) have teams just LoS the boss and stack up in melee and roll their faces over the keyboard repeatedly (or just twice if you’re a warrior) until its dead. In those situations, I’ve often found myself barely even needing a heal at all, and it is possible that in certain very niche builds that activating this signet will increase how quickly the boss is killed by like 0.1%. (I’m sure you’re aware of all that)

I didn’t say it would be good. I said it would be passable in a few niche builds/situations. Very different concepts.

I think we can all agree though that instead of trying to build a PvE niche necro to make this heal kinda work, you’d be better off taking another guardian or warrior.

Bhawb.7408:

Since the preview, a total of 2 people have expressed a positive opinion of the healing skill, and both of those 2 are PvE players

Just imagine how much damage this signet can provide. And yuh, GETTING HIT IS THE FIRST REASON TO HEAL AFTERALL.
Signed. 3rd positive player. PVP one. What DOES suck is skelk venom. And probably another spirit, for gods sake.

Stand The Wall.6987:

the new necro heal skill looks extremely powerful from a wvw point of view.

You misspelled Guardian or Warrior there. There is no “c” in either one, for example.

Stand The Wall.6987:

the new necro heal skill looks extremely powerful from a wvw point of view. why all the complaints about no healing in ds? we get an extra health bar for free with good control and damage. the cd isnt bad at all. imo ppl need to stop complaining.

What? That signet active will be useless against a competent player… If you dont dodge the mark, simple dodge/block/be invunaruble while the mark is on you (its easy to see if you have it on you). Avoiding for 5 sec all damage is not hard if you arent a necro.
And the passiv has an icd (the active seems to have also an icd per person).

I only see it good in wvw against baddies, but for those taking the signet instead of wob/cc?

Edit: maybe its good for forcing out the defensive cooldowns

Stand The Wall.6987:

the new necro heal skill looks extremely powerful from a wvw point of view. why all the complaints about no healing in ds? we get an extra health bar for free with good control and damage. the cd isnt bad at all. imo ppl need to stop complaining.

Yes, replacing your actual heal with the ability to get less health back for being struck than healing signet gives warriors for just running around is totally going to rock the WvWvW scene. We’re all clearly blind to its unlimited potential.

Oh look it was moved from sPvP to the garbage Necromancer Forum.

So this topic has been moved to the basement of the forum. To that place no dev ever visits: The necromancer sub forum.

I’m sure that will benefit the discussion well.

Katran.9186:

Bhawb.7408:

Since the preview, a total of 2 people have expressed a positive opinion of the healing skill, and both of those 2 are PvE players

Just imagine how much damage this signet can provide.

6k damage absolute maximum (assuming power build). Running Blood Fiend and firing off a life blast will result in more damage in the same time frame.

Out of sight, out of mind. Just like the necromancer.

Stand The Wall.6987:

the new necro heal skill looks extremely powerful from a wvw point of view. why all the complaints about no healing in ds? we get an extra health bar for free with good control and damage. the cd isnt bad at all. imo ppl need to stop complaining.

We don’t get DS for “free”, we get DeathShroud at the cost of:
No vigor
No invulnerabilities
No dodges
No aegis
No stealth
One movement ability that can get you out of combat, and this must be pre-casted and can be killed
Very low access to defensive boons
All of our “defense” can be countered by stability and condition removal

Also, the skill isn’t good from any point of view. Why would I take a heal into WvW that heals my allies for 1/5th what Well of Blood can, deals less damage than two LBs (which don’t take much longer to cast and don’t make me have a god awful skill), and heals myself for basically nothing, compared to our other heals.

And thanks mods. 10/10 for kittening up again and obviously paying absolutely no attention to what you are doing. This was put in the sPvP forum because all changes are done due to sPvP. It is where a lot of discussion takes place because NO devs take part in our class-forum discussions, and we wanted them to, you know, actually see this. If they refuse to do discussions in our forums, and you refuse to let us discuss anything in the sPvP forums, what do we do, tweet at them? This is ridiculous.

Stand The Wall.6987:

why all the complaints about no healing in ds? we get an extra health bar for free

Gah I hate how people use the “extra health bar” to justify why Necro is good.

It’s not an extra health bar, it’s a number of seconds of damage mitigation where we are locked out of all our skills.

When it ends we go back to the low health we were on before.

Most other classes have have an ‘invincible’ move – except they can heal and use mobility skills and set themselves up to get back into the fight.

Ghostextechnica.3270:

Stand The Wall.6987:

why all the complaints about no healing in ds? we get an extra health bar for free

Gah I hate how people use the “extra health bar” to justify why Necro is good.

It’s not an extra health bar, it’s a number of seconds of damage mitigation where we are locked out of all our skills.

When it ends we go back to the low health we were on before.

Most other classes have have an ‘invincible’ move – except they can heal and use mobility skills and set themselves up to get back into the fight.

You sound a lot like me. x.X Just saying. Sometimes I read your comment and think I’m reading my own. It’s very confusing.

It´s just so sad. I was seriously looking forward to return to sPvP after all the stuff they´re planning or at least take a look at it again. Then I watched the livestream with the new healing skills, the reactions to it and Anets not-existing reaction to the community and was finally certain… the devs just don´t care about class balance, sPvP and community feedback.

Even a guy like Nemesis who tried to justify the developers reasoning for a long time is now like “No, I just don´t understand anymore what the devs are doing”

Stand The Wall.6987:

the new necro heal skill looks extremely powerful from a wvw point of view. why all the complaints about no healing in ds? we get an extra health bar for free with good control and damage. the cd isnt bad at all. imo ppl need to stop complaining.

You joking right? the passive “healing” is pathetic and even more so now with the added ICD and the Active…All that takes is ONE dodge to waste most of the duration, ONE CC to waste some of the duration or you just just dodge it altogether due to how long it is to cast.

This is in no way “powerful” even in PvE, even worse in WvW.

To be fair, it will act really good as a guild-wide, zerg-wide targetting system if you can land it. Sort of like a target icon for everyone instead of just your immediate party.

Overpowered indeed.

Ghostextechnica.3270:

Gah I hate how people use the “extra health bar” to justify why Necro is good.

It’s not an extra health bar, it’s a number of seconds of damage mitigation where we are locked out of all our skills.

When it ends we go back to the low health we were on before.

Most other classes have have an ‘invincible’ move – except they can heal and use mobility skills and set themselves up to get back into the fight.

The DeathShroud is nothing more than a MeatShield. Even then its a terrible Meatshield it gets melted very fast with the tiniest bit of burst. The skills are rather weak forced into taking traits to actually make it any use.

Other classes get stealth, invuls and other defensive options and we get a “shield” that lasts seconds, locks us out of heals and other skills…Yeah thats great.

Rennoko.5731:

To be fair, it will act really good as a guild-wide, zerg-wide targetting system if you can land it. Sort of like a target icon for everyone instead of just your immediate party.

Overpowered indeed.

Maybe Necro commanders will use it then. At least until they die because they have a useless heal.

Move to the Necro forum, where no Dev visits ever.

Sweep it under the carpet and hope it goes away.

Avigrus.2871:

Move to the Necro forum, where no Dev visits ever.

Sweep it under the carpet and hope it goes away.

Eventually “it” (being necros in general) will go away. :P But even then, I doubt anyone would notice. xD

I reposted in the sPvP forum with the topic worded slightly differently and more focus on the impact of the skill in sPvP.

Hope it doesn’t get infracted because it is a legitimate question that belongs in that subforum

Edit for spelling

let’s see if they revamped the signet come tomorrow..

if not..

“no more real money for you..”

Yeah I’m enacting a personal moratorium on giving them any more money until they pull their head out of their 4th point of contact when it comes to Necromancers. I don’t even main one anymore and this is bullfeces.

Same here. No more money from me until they’ve sorted this mess out.

I’m really depressed by the amount of players that desperately need a strong healing skill just to survive. Like they’ll automatically die if they don’t get that extra 1000 health.

OtakuDFifty.2965:

I’m really depressed by the amount of players that desperately need a strong healing skill just to survive. Like they’ll automatically die if they don’t get that extra 1000 health.

That’s not the complaint and not the point. The point of this qq is that they had the opportunity to introduce a healing skill that increases survivability and instead this flaming pile of crap was thrown our way

Sepreh.5924:

OtakuDFifty.2965:

I’m really depressed by the amount of players that desperately need a strong healing skill just to survive. Like they’ll automatically die if they don’t get that extra 1000 health.

That’s not the complaint and not the point. The point of this qq is that they had the opportunity to introduce a healing skill that increases survivability and instead this flaming pile of crap was thrown our way

It’s not “the” complaint, but it sure as hell is “a” complaint. Literally seeing people saying they’re going to be useless in battle because they have to be ressed for bringing in this heal.

OtakuDFifty.2965:

Sepreh.5924:

OtakuDFifty.2965:

I’m really depressed by the amount of players that desperately need a strong healing skill just to survive. Like they’ll automatically die if they don’t get that extra 1000 health.

That’s not the complaint and not the point. The point of this qq is that they had the opportunity to introduce a healing skill that increases survivability and instead this flaming pile of crap was thrown our way

It’s not “the” complaint, but it sure as hell is “a” complaint. Literally seeing people saying they’re going to be useless in battle because they have to be ressed for bringing in this heal.

They are probably just trying to be funny because this healing skill is that bad. Its so bad that jokes are warranted.

If ever there was a time when complaining about a skill was justified, Signet of the “Vampire” takes it.

OtakuDFifty.2965:

I’m really depressed by the amount of players that desperately need a strong healing skill just to survive. Like they’ll automatically die if they don’t get that extra 1000 health.

Do you purposely go into fights without traits? Do you run dungeons without weapons, or utility skills? Do you regularly go into PvP matches without armor? No? Because handicapping yourself for NO reason is stupid. This skill is worse than every other skill we have.

Equipping it is the same as unequipping your level 80 perfect ascended weapon, and equipping a level 60 blue. Do you automatically die? No, but you are handicapping yourself for absolutely no reason.

OtakuDFifty.2965:

I’m really depressed by the amount of players that desperately need a strong healing skill just to survive. Like they’ll automatically die if they don’t get that extra 1000 health.

1k health has decided fights for me multiple times, but that’s really not relevant to this. What is relevant is that there is no situation where we don’t already have a better skill that does the job better. no matter what you want from Signet of Vampirism, we already have a skill that does it better.

Bhawb.7408:

OtakuDFifty.2965:

I’m really depressed by the amount of players that desperately need a strong healing skill just to survive. Like they’ll automatically die if they don’t get that extra 1000 health.

Do you purposely go into fights without traits? Do you run dungeons without weapons, or utility skills? Do you regularly go into PvP matches without armor? No? Because handicapping yourself for NO reason is stupid. This skill is worse than every other skill we have.

Equipping it is the same as unequipping your level 80 perfect ascended weapon, and equipping a level 60 blue. Do you automatically die? No, but you are handicapping yourself for absolutely no reason.

You speak as if switching healing skills in between fights isn’t an option, or that there isn’t a single situation in which this healing skill would be more useful. I’ve been in plenty of fights where I’m taking minimal damage and don’t need to use my 6 all that often. Blood Fiend might do more damage over time, or it might do much worse… depends on the build and the fight. In fights like Thaumanova and Volcano fractal bosses, I think I’d rather bring in SoV. It also seems like it would be a great “fire and forget” during Dredge fractal boss if the Necro is running switches.

Given WoB out-heals SoV in just two seconds, I can safely say which I would bring there.

In short, no. There is no situation where this skill is better. If you really want the extra damage, you run Blood Fiend and fire a life blast. If you want group heal, you run Well of Blood.

The signets active can be used very effectively in order to spike targets in WvW or Pvp. It needs coordination though. It is true that dodge rolling or blocks can negate this but a common theme in all the healing skills is that they can be very effective but have counter play as well. I expect to see videos of teams instant spiking with this signets active within a few days

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Given WoB out-heals SoV in just two seconds, I can safely say which I would bring there.

In short, no. There is no situation where this skill is better. If you really want the extra damage, you run Blood Fiend and fire a life blast. If you want group heal, you run Well of Blood.

20/25 stacks of SoV will do roughly 5000 armor-ignoring damage to one target. A Necro decked out in Clerics and Monk runes will NOT match that damage with a Blood Fiend and LB. Blood Fiend does, what, 200-300 damage every 3 seconds? That is NOT matching SoV.

Want extra damage, run Blood Fiend, want group heal, run WoB… Why not both?

OtakuDFifty.2965:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Given WoB out-heals SoV in just two seconds, I can safely say which I would bring there.

In short, no. There is no situation where this skill is better. If you really want the extra damage, you run Blood Fiend and fire a life blast. If you want group heal, you run Well of Blood.

20/25 stacks of SoV will do roughly 5000 armor-ignoring damage to one target. A Necro decked out in Clerics and Monk runes will NOT match that damage with a Blood Fiend and LB. Blood Fiend does, what, 200-300 damage every 3 seconds? That is NOT matching SoV.

Want extra damage, run Blood Fiend, want group heal, run WoB… Why not both?

Because you can be far more effective by picking one? 2k heal is…nice, but it requires a lot from your allies as well. If I were low on health, I would be playing defensively until I could heal. I wouldn’t go attacking for a piddly 400 hp regained when a single hit will kill me. I might, however, stand in a healing area, since I can continue to play defensively and still get the heal I need.

The Life Blast you could cast instead still deals the majority of the damage of the signet active (yes, even in full Cleric’s armor), but is more reliable and doesn’t preclude using a healing skill that’s actually good.

Plus, over the course of the cast+cooldown, Blood Fiend alone provides ~3600 damage without you having to cast it instead in a fight. Yes, this is assuming it will survive, but it sits at 900 range from those mobs and registers very low on the threat assessment in addition to having roughly equal health to Flesh Golem. It isn’t likely to die in most PvE content. Even in PvP, it does you more good because it is less likely to be dodge/blocked/blinded whatever and will eat a lot of damage instead of you if they decide to kill it.

Pretty hilarious the warrior got exactly the type of heal we need, when they already have a ton of similar things, and we end up with more weak mitigation, and that is sapped with a ICD to make it utterly useless against burst, which is the biggest flaw and weakness in the class.