Guild Wars 2

One of the problems with survivability that’s always bugged me is that beyond Consume Conditions and Well of Power there isn’t that much in terms of on demand condition removal. Shrouded Removal can be pretty useful, but it requires you to spec oddly and entails Reanimator which is annoying at best and Staff #4 is on a conditional basis with a long cooldown.

On demand condition removal is fairly hard to balance so maybe more viable conditional basis ones are a better optin. For example what I’d like to see is changes for Spiteful Removal so that it’s something like ‘Lose a condition every time you apply one to an enemy (7 second cooldown)’ and Chill of Death into ‘Removing a boon or applying chill transfers 2 conditions onto enemies (10 second cooldown)’.

Just my thoughts, seeing as Necro doesn’t have many stunbreakers it could at least see some condition removal love.

I think the idea is that rather than remove conditions, we are supposed to be apply to manipulate them and apply them to targets; hence, Dagger4 and Plague Signet, although I think Plague Signet is way too long a CD.

I’d like to see another means of manipulating conditions – perhaps along the lines of Consume Conditions, but instead of a heal, this skill or trait would convert conditions to Might or Fury or Regen or Malice.

Sigil of Purity/Generosity can be used, but now we’re using up those slots.

Aye but at the foremost of ‘manipulation’ is getting the negative effects off you in the first place.

I use III of spite. For Power builds it’s heaven. When running a condition build it’s annoying having to go 10 into spite for it.
Necromancer is one of the classes with the most condition controll.
You’ll seldomly find THREE skills on a class that not only remove ALL conditions from youself, but also DO something with them.
Stunbreakers: Well we have Spectral Walk and Signets, but DS should surely be a stunbreaker, even if by traits.

Fix reanimator and its a non-issue imo. Shrouded removal is excellent, but that pesky rat keeps me from considering anything in that line.

We have less condition removal, and more condition transfer, and frankly I’d like to keep it that way. Staff 4 transfers conditions from allies to enemies in the area, dagger 4 transfers 3 conditions on hit, and none of these are really long CDs. Plus there are some traited abilities which help with condition removal/transfer.

Personally, I like that its transfer, it makes condition use against necros much harder (stack 25 bleeds and find them right back on yourself), and is a major part of who we are. If we added any more plain removal on top, it’d just be too strong.

If this isn’t a troll thread you need to take a serious look at other profs. We have the top condition removal of any prof without needing to specialize. No other prof has 3 abilities that remove EVERY condition on them. The most important thing to remember is timing and recognizing how they are being placed. Not to mention we readily have traits in different trees that remove conditions. Then look at other profs. How many others have weapons skills that not only remove condi from you but add them to others. I like necro but I have no desire to see a tank fotm condimancer crash the meta. If seriously after all this it is not enough start utilizing runes/amulets. Already condi has taken a back seat in sPvP to power builds (yes condi is still viable) but adding more condi removal will just in the end make them obsolete. Other than that there are countless ways for groups and teams to also coordinate condi removal.

reedju.5786:

If this isn’t a troll thread you need to take a serious look at other profs. We have the top condition removal of any prof without needing to specialize. No other prof has 3 abilities that remove EVERY condition on them. The most important thing to remember is timing and recognizing how they are being placed. Not to mention readily have skills in different trees that remove conditions. Then look at other profs. How many others have weapons skills that not only remove condi from you but add them to others. I like necro but I have no desire to see a tank fotm condimancer crash the meta…

I forgot how inept people on the official forums are. I’ve had 6 lvl80’s all geared for a while now (only ones missing are Mesmer and Ele), and whilst better off than Ranger and to some extent Engi, Necro is still only on par with others rather than having a niche in them like it really should.

Necro has a single utility capable of transferring all conditions to an enemy yes, but this requires a target where as Contemplation of Purity amd Elixr C as counter examples do not. Granted staff #4 is great but as a weapon is only viable as a swap in for condition builds, which is weird seeing as this is exactly what you claim to not want encouraged over other gameplay types.

Maybe I didn’t make it clear, I’m using condition removal in the broad sense of getting them the kitten off you in a more controlled way that promotes synergy. Conditions of course don’t rely on condition builds either and can be incorporated into any builds for utility, eg cripple, immobilize, vulnerability and even poison for its debuff.

Kilger.5490:

Fix reanimator and its a non-issue imo. Shrouded removal is excellent, but that pesky rat keeps me from considering anything in that line.

It depresses me when I see people saying things like this. Reanimator may be annoying but it does not negatively contribute to your performance. It is beneficial, however small the benefit may be. I use shrouded removal and basically don’t pay attention to the minion, it hasn’t affected me negatively for months. If you get hung up on its annoying-ness or buy into the Reanimator hate on this forum then you are limiting your necro’s potential by restricting yourself from taking the Death Magic traits.

On topic: The only condition removal in my power build is Consume Conditions and Shrouded Removal + Near to Death, and that is still more removal than like 90% of builds out there. Our condition removal doesn’t need to be buffed IMO.

Aretak.3826:

I forgot how inept people on the official forums are. I’ve had 6 lvl80’s all geared for a while now (only ones missing are Mesmer and Ele), and whilst better off than Ranger and to some extent Engi, Necro is still only on par with others rather than having a niche in them like it really should.

Necro has a single utility capable of transferring all conditions to an enemy yes, but this requires a target where as Contemplation of Purity amd Elixr C as counter examples do not. Granted staff #4 is great but as a weapon is only viable as a swap in for condition builds, which is weird seeing as this is exactly what you claim to not want encouraged over other gameplay types.

Maybe I didn’t make it clear, I’m using condition removal in the broad sense of getting them the kitten off you in a more controlled way that promotes synergy. Conditions of course don’t rely on condition builds either and can be incorporated into any builds for utility, eg cripple, immobilize, vulnerability and even poison for its debuff.

But, you’re wrong.
Staff is currently one of the best weapon for most builds.
Plague Signet only works with a target, big change, still pretty powerful.
If you#re not making a well-build, Consume Conditions is the only decent HealSkill out there, because our Minion healskill is a bit of useless. As soon as they fix minions, Fetid Consumption might seem weak, but for a Minion master, it’s a pretty powerful Trait, considering 6 Minions is the max.
No other Class can controll conditions on foes, self and allies as well as the Necro.
There might be alot of skills that remove conditions, but most only remove between 1 to 3, some remove only specific, so in terms of getting rid of all conditions, necro STILL is best.
And yes, we DO fill a niche. namely the Niche of Condition controll.
Sure a mesmer can stack a bunch of conditions onto me with Chaos fields, but he sure as hell should be ready to eat them himself. Becaus eif he doesnt get them, I’m going to use them to heal myself.
Dagger 4, Staff 4, Plague Signet, Well of Power and Consume Conditions can be MAJOR gamechanger when going up against Mesmers, Thiefs or Rangers.
Everytime I play another class I miss the controll i have over conditions.

Inept? Seeing as how you refuted none of my points (successfully) and simply lacked specification in your OP I respectfully disagree. Ok bud I won’t argue with you, but a few things I may not have specified. Between self and group condition removal I am able to counter any condition build I’ve encountered. And no, like the above post said, staff is not only viable without a condi build, I actually prefer it with my power build for group control.

Edit: we do fill a condition niche. Removal may not be as available as you think it should be but no one compares to our condition transfer abilities or boon corruptions/removal. Not to mention “on par” with most classes seems more balanced than excessive boon removal and highest potential group condi dmg via epi. If anything ele and guard are niche for condi removal and they have the abilities/traits to match.

Staff #4 also transfers conditions

necros are literally one of the best people at controlling conditions

“One of the best” we are, hands down, THE best at controlling conditions. You literally have to go out of your way as a necro to NOT have some kind of condition control in a build.

Wait…what?

Skills:
Consume Conditions – Removes ALL conditions – 25 second cd

Putrid Mark – Transfers ALL conditions from you to the enemy that triggered it (Unblockable and large AoE if you’re using Greater Marks, which you have to if you’re using the staff). – 25 seconds cd.

Deadly Swarm – Transfer up to 3 conditions to the enemy. – 18 seconds cd.

Plague Signet – Transfer your conditions to an enemy – 60 seconds cd.

Well of Power – Convert one condition per tick into a boon – 60 second cd.

Life Blast (Underwater) – Transfer one condition per attack to the enemy – no cooldown/auto-attack.

Traits:

Spite: III – Spiteful Removal - When you kill a foe you lose three conditions.

Death Magic: VI – Shrouded Removal – Lose a condition when you enter death shroud.

Blood Magic: XI – Fetid Consumption – Minions draw conditions. Each minion can draw one condition every 10 seconds.

Most classes would kill to have HALF of those options.

Deathly* Swarm works oddly for me, I’ve never been able to transfer more than 1 condition, am I missing a trait or something?

It is up to 3, it needs to bounce to transfer all 3.

We definitely have more options than most for dealing with conditions, followed by Warrior if they are spec’d correctly for it.

If you take staff recharges 20% faster trait you basically have Staff 4 every 20 seconds that transfers them all off you onto the enemy. Consume conditions that is every 25 seconds that takes them all off you. And then if you have dagger offhand with the reductions trait which allows you to transfer 3 conditions about every 15 seconds. That is 3 straight away without going further into other traits and well of power etc. that easily deals with conditions.

I think out of everything condition removal is the least of our worries.

Necro doesn’t remove condition, he controlls them. – One wise Asura

I understand where op is coming from. We don’t have instant condi removal that can save our lives. Immobilized and about to eat a 12k shatter combo? Your best chance is putrid mark at this point which is long cd and has so many usess that it almost is always on cd. Not to mention it is tied to a weapon. This, compared to ele’s removing 4 conditions and stun break with cleansing fire. But I suppose we are built to eat the damage and move on more so than other classes, rather than avoiding the damage.

Turbo Whale.1738:

I understand where op is coming from. We don’t have instant condi removal that can save our lives. Immobilized and about to eat a 12k shatter combo? Your best chance is putrid mark at this point which is long cd and has so many usess that it almost is always on cd. Not to mention it is tied to a weapon. This, compared to ele’s removing 4 conditions and stun break with cleansing fire. But I suppose we are built to eat the damage and move on more so than other classes, rather than avoiding the damage.

Technically you could accomplish something similar via Plague Signet, with the added bonus of throwing said conditions at a target. That said: different classes are different. I think it’s a mistake to ask for identical abilities across professions.

Turbo Whale.1738:

We don’t have instant condi removal that can save our lives.

Consume conditions.

What REALLY chaps my hide is the fact that some of our mediocre moves damages us in the process. Seriously, why is it that the necro, as a class that can place conditions on other classes at a rate no more special than other classes, have to damge ourselves to do it at a decent rate (Bip, Epidemic, etc.), and only have a few ways to remove conditions. In my opinion they gave the other classes WAY to many ways to remove them. In fact, if you want to know, people have had potions that shrink themselves and make them invulnerable to damage, which erases the conditions you had on them, so not only can they use class skills to remove conditions, they can use the invulnerability potion to prevent new ones from being placed on them for a few seconds. THANKS ANET for that great thing in WvW.

II love condition builds, but there are entirely to many ways to remove them, which makes us seek out power builds, which are decent imo, at engage and killing a single target, but loose the ability to do mass damage to other targets. In addition, our kitten conditions are not special, and are achievable by practically all the other classes.

If they want to improve necros, give us ways to make our conditions really tough. more damage, or more resistance to removal. And stop letting people use invulnerability potions, or whatever, in wvw. so weak.

also, with regard to the previous reference to trait specific removals:

Traits:
Spite: III – Spiteful Removal - When you kill a foe you lose three conditions – you gimp yourself if you have this traited in my opinion. Great for pve, crap for pvp.

Death Magic: VI – Shrouded Removal – Lose a condition when you enter death shroud. Ok, fine, but much better things to pick, with regard to staff mastery and undodgeable marks, or reapers protection.

Blood Magic: XI – Fetid Consumption – Minions draw conditions. Each minion can draw one condition every 10 seconds. Yeah, ok, you run with this in blood magic, and your using minions? Wow, must be good for pve, and again, crap for pvp.

Most classes would kill you more effectively if you have chosen HALF of those options.

Bhawb.7408:

Turbo Whale.1738:

We don’t have instant condi removal that can save our lives.

Consume conditions.

Shrouded Removal, too. That trait has gotten me out of so many cripples and immobilizes…

Gryph.8237:

also, with regard to the previous reference to trait specific removals:

Traits:
Spite: III – Spiteful Removal - When you kill a foe you lose three conditions – you gimp yourself if you have this traited in my opinion. Great for pve, crap for pvp.

Death Magic: VI – Shrouded Removal – Lose a condition when you enter death shroud. Ok, fine, but much better things to pick, with regard to staff mastery and undodgeable marks, or reapers protection.

Blood Magic: XI – Fetid Consumption – Minions draw conditions. Each minion can draw one condition every 10 seconds. Yeah, ok, you run with this in blood magic, and your using minions? Wow, must be good for pve, and again, crap for pvp.

Most classes would kill you more effectively if you have chosen HALF of those options.

I use Shrouded Removal in my staff-less, perma-fury power build. I figured that if I am toggling DS for fury I may as well remove conditions too. It’s saved my life dozens of times.

Spiteful Removal could be good in zerg vs. zerg situations… :P

I’m new to this class, but it seems to me Necros have a whole set of tools for removing conditions in both PvP and PvE. Even better, necros can transfer conditions, and off weapon skills!! You have a heal that wipes conditions and heals even more per condition, a staff skill that transfers conditions, a dagger skill that transfers conditions, a signet that transfers conditions, a well that converts conditions to boons, an elite that cures conditions (Lich 5), an adept trait that wipes 1 condition on DS, another adept trait that wipes 3 conditions on each kill, and a grandmaster trait that transfers conditions to minions every 10 seconds.

My main is a ranger, know what our condition removal options are? 1 heal, 1 signet, and a grandmaster trait. Oh, and the signet and grandmaster trait kill the ranger’s pet by transferring conditions to them. I’m finding all these options to transfer boons and conditions on necros pretty amazing, personally.

Let me see
Minions if traited > can draw conditions every 10 sec
Shroud if traited > cleans 1 condition when used
Dagger off hand > transfer 3 conditions to your target on hit 18s CD
Consume Condition > removes all conditions 25s cd
Plague singed > transfers all conditions to a target 60s CD
Well of power > turns conditions into boons 60s CD

yes i agree necros sux at condition cleaning

Necromancer complaining about condition removal/control. Now I’ve seen everything.

This post is seriously ridiculous
I’ve got a power build, but I’ve got several ways of removing my conditions AND transferring them to boot.
Staff 4, dagger 4 (yes I run d/d and yes it is awesome, recognize or be stupid), sigil of generosity on dagger offhand transfers a stack every 10 seconds. And if it becomes too much, well consume for more heal and start again.
Seriously, there is absolutely nothing wrong with necromancer condition removal!