Guild Wars 2

Sigma.9746:

Shelledfade.6435:

Sigma.9746:

Shelledfade.6435:

LOL PLAGUE??? Plague does no damage at all. It’s a tank spell. All the gotta do is ignore you and focus on the main problem, the other, overpowered, “good” classes. lol. Then once it runs out, GG. Uselesss…..

It’s a perma-blind and you can also throw in Cripple/Weakness (which shouldn’t be needed once they fix the trait); how can they hit that which they cannot see?

Well, you’re not immune to stuns in this form.

Plague is not actually that bad imo, but it has a 180 cooldown, you can only use it basically once before most rounds are nearly over. It’s the elite spell, and it isn’t that bad. Neither is lich form.

The problem is everything ELSE sucks.

Plague has Stability last I checked.

Now, there are issues outside of that, but I feel that Plague is very much a class defining ability, much like the Mesmer’s elites. Lich is kind of iffy to me (Makes you a huge target without a corresponding increase in tank while the skills aren’t mindblastingly good outside of having all 5 enemies in your face) and Abby Normal’s brains were clearly used in the Flesh Golem.

Now the class has issues. Minions for the most part are terrible, non-dagger offhands are unimpressive, Staff CDs are insanely long, etc etc. I just think you’re overreacting and refusing to look at some of the great stuff that Necros have going for them

The fact that condition damage is so weak, and that our attacks are so weak, the only thing we have “going” for us necro players is the fact that we can take a few hits only if we use death shroud and get toughness traits, and if you don’t get minions toughness trait isn’t even THAT good.

Literally most, if not ALL of our traits do not make sense for a BALANCED character. It’s like a 5 year old mashed together these trait tree bonuses and said “howz zisss?” “izz good?”

Seriously, I see some potential here, but as it currently stands this is one of the worst classes in the game with one of the worst trait tree’s in the game, compared to the rest of the other classes. That’s my problem.

I have never, not once, had a problem in sPvP. From your tone and words, you seem to be trying to run around by yourself and kill mobs of players. I find a couple people, I stick close to them, and I use my enormous list of utility spells to allow us to take and hold any point against any number of people. Have you TRIED taking a point from a Guardian while Well of Darkness is sitting under him? It’s not going to happen. Your GS warrior buddy having trouble catching that ranger? Not any more he’s not, since that Legolas wannabe is now crippled and chilled for the remainder of their short life. You are a class designed to multiply the power of others exponentially. Running around solo expecting to be useful is kittening yourself on purpose, and costing other players victory. Side note: Necro right now is a very underplayed class. That means that most people, especially those still leveling, have no idea what your abilities do. Let them underestimate you, then Death Shroud and watch them run for their lives.

Skliros.1058:

I have never, not once, had a problem in sPvP. From your tone and words, you seem to be trying to run around by yourself and kill mobs of players. I find a couple people, I stick close to them, and I use my enormous list of utility spells to allow us to take and hold any point against any number of people. Have you TRIED taking a point from a Guardian while Well of Darkness is sitting under him? It’s not going to happen. Your GS warrior buddy having trouble catching that ranger? Not any more he’s not, since that Legolas wannabe is now crippled and chilled for the remainder of their short life. You are a class designed to multiply the power of others exponentially. Running around solo expecting to be useful is kittening yourself on purpose, and costing other players victory. Side note: Necro right now is a very underplayed class. That means that most people, especially those still leveling, have no idea what your abilities do. Let them underestimate you, then Death Shroud and watch them run for their lives.

You must be playing a different game than me, like seriously all I can do is LOL here.

Okay. You’re a troll. I’m done trying to help you. Enjoy the game.

Skliros.1058:

Okay. You’re a troll. I’m done trying to help you. Enjoy the game.

There’s no “helping” the situation until they buff skills and change the trait bonuses cuz.. this class sucks. Anyone with a brain knows it.

I think our Trait lines need serious rework. If condition damage is going to be on the Precision tree, then we need better on crit procs. Minion traits should be Major picks, not minor; right now you end up with useless minor traits if you want to spec toughness at all. Bleed’s condition damage ratio of 5% may need to be reworked. The fact that we have a lot of traits that don’t have proper interactions (damage buffs not working on condition damage, Hemo and Lingering not stacking, movement speed not stacking), etc. Minions and Traitlines are the core issues of the class, and then there are problems with weapons that aren’t Scepter/OH Dagger + Staff. However, I don’t think it’s in quite as dire straits as you make it out to be.

There really is no reason for Condition Duration and Power to be on the same tree. Give me Death Shroud + Condition Duration and Power + Critical Damage and you’ll eliminate a lot of the anti-synergy. As long as we can proc Bleeds off Crits then you can keep Precision and Condition Damage together, but I really would like conditions to crit, even if they can’t proc off themselves

Sigma.9746:

I think our Trait lines need serious rework.

I definitely agree with this, and with the rest of your post. The traits are pretty scattered, and I usually end up making sacrifices with my traits that I feel other classes don’t have to make. My overall point is that although there are quite a few things that could stand a buff or some overhauling, we are certainly not a useless class, and we excel at the role we were intended for.

Skliros.1058:

Sigma.9746:

I think our Trait lines need serious rework.

I definitely agree with this, and with the rest of your post. The traits are pretty scattered, and I usually end up making sacrifices with my traits that I feel other classes don’t have to make. My overall point is that although there are quite a few things that could stand a buff or some overhauling, we are certainly not a useless class, and we excel at the role we were intended for.

if our traits are completely screwed, what “roll” is this you’re talking about lmao? And what class DOESN’T play a better “roll” that we play in spvp? THERE ISN’T ONE.

You’re saying we excel at the roll we were intended to play, then say our trait line needs serious rework. You’re a freaking hypocrite.

Shelledfade.6435:

Skliros.1058:

Sigma.9746:

I think our Trait lines need serious rework.

I definitely agree with this, and with the rest of your post. The traits are pretty scattered, and I usually end up making sacrifices with my traits that I feel other classes don’t have to make. My overall point is that although there are quite a few things that could stand a buff or some overhauling, we are certainly not a useless class, and we excel at the role we were intended for.

if our traits are completely screwed, what “roll” is this you’re talking about lmao? And what class DOESN’T play a better “roll” that we play in spvp?

You’re saying we excel at the roll we were intended to play, then say our trait line needs serious rework. You’re a freaking hypocrite.

Dude, calm down, you’re not helping to make your point by frothing at the mouth. You can have a certain level of messedupness and still be decent at your role. In this case for sPvP I tend to be a more versatile Engineer. You defend points slightly worse than a pure defense Engineer, but you roam and teamfight far better. You’re able to cripple/weaken entire groups very easily and you have one of the most devastating Elites in the game. Necros aren’t a lost cause, but they’ve got quite a bit of anti-synergy and poor design decisions that need to be fixed

Skliros.1058:

Sigma.9746:

I think our Trait lines need serious rework.

I definitely agree with this, and with the rest of your post. The traits are pretty scattered, and I usually end up making sacrifices with my traits that I feel other classes don’t have to make. My overall point is that although there are quite a few things that could stand a buff or some overhauling, we are certainly not a useless class, and we excel at the role we were intended for.

Indeed, we aren’t useless. I think our collective success in SPvP and WvW is a testament to that. However, I would like some clarification on the idea of “intended roles” as it would clear up a lot of my concerns. I was under the impression (from playing other classes and reading dev interviews over the months) that there are no “intended roles” in the sense that class X is pigeon holed into role Y.

The other classes I’ve tested seemed to indicate that we’re able to pick a class that’s fun, and build it to our liking (warrior, engineers, thief, mesmer and ranger are some that I’ve briefly tried). I understand that each class has a gimmick or is stronger at certain aspects (engineers are awesome control and support, mesmers are force multipliers, necromancers spread and micromanage conditions, etc..), but I didn’t think we were locked into a certain role. That just seems to jive with everything I’ve tested and read.

I could be wrong though, I just wish an authority would say one way or the other for some clarification.

Maybe I’m only playing noobs (rank19) but I think Necromancer is ok-ish in PvP.
We don’t have much OP stuff and some skills from the other professions can be tricky to deal with – however I feel most of the time that I stand a chance in 1v1 situations.

I’ve tried most of the classes and besides Thief I feel I do the best with the Necromancer, to be honest. I am not afraid of 1v1 scenarios and I often come out on top. I can survive for quite some time, even 1v2 until help come (sometimes at least )

Calling us broken is taking it a bit to far, friend!
I’m sorry you do not enjoy your Necromancer!

Btw I saw a post here that pointed out a lot of bugs, specially related to condition boosters from traits. When it get’s fixed we should be in an even better place!

I am struggeling more in PvE to find a specc that I like. I have played Scepter/Dagger most of the time and it works great. I mean its really good PvE wise, but I feel it gets a bit boring waiving that scepter around all the time like I am meleeing stuff.

I want to use the staff because it looks cool, but I do not want to use mionions!

edit: I will agree that our traits are a bit weak and does not seem so refined as others. With other classes I was happy to reach the 5/10/15 etc and choose something new and cool etc but now I have the feeling its ‘meh’ and trying to find the thing that suck the least.

we are indeed pigeon holed. For example if you wanted to main daggers, you can’t get precision tree- power tree, and blood tree. Even if you did go 30-20-20 in these, then you have no toughness so you will be weak as hell with melee as a main. Total fail. Take a long hard look at the traits for our class and you can see it pigeon shoots you into a roll that is mediocre compared to all the other classes in the game because the traits for our class are broken badly. We excel at nothing because our traits screw us over.

The only thing that you can viably build into, from a BALANCED well-rounded perspective, is condition damage, which doesn’t do ANY burst damage at all and can be hard-countered by other classes in the game.

Shelledfade.6435:

we are indeed pigeon holed. For example if you wanted to main daggers, you can’t get precision tree- power tree, and blood tree. Even if you did go 30-20-20 in these, then you have no toughness so you will be weak as hell with melee as a main. Total fail. Take a long hard look at the traits for our class and you can see it pigeon shoots you into a roll that is mediocre compared to all the other classes in the game. We excel at nothing because our traits screw us over.

Might it be more productive to show how you feel the traits should be laid out? I’ve given my opinion on the matter earlier in the thread, but a comprehensive breakdown of why the traits are poorly done and how they should be fixed seems like something you have a strong opinion on.

Terok.7315:

However, I would like some clarification on the idea of “intended roles” as it would clear up a lot of my concerns. I was under the impression (from playing other classes and reading dev interviews over the months) that there are no “intended roles” in the sense that class X is pigeon holed into role Y.

I think I used the wrong phrasing there. I didn’t mean a role as in tank/healer/dps. I see the role of the necromancer as a whole as leaning heavily towards the supporting side of things. We have pure DPS builds, sure. Axe is awesome in the right hands. But the damage from it won’t be as good as, say, an elementalist. We can, however, assist groups and turn the tide of large fights better than almost any other class or build. We can heal, we can AoE bleed, we can blind, we can cripple, we can chill, and we can throw conditions back into people’s faces. And we can do it all at the same time, with tons of mobility. One necromancer in a group can make the whole party hit a whole heck of a lot harder, and THAT is our role. Did that clear it up?

Shelledfade.6435:

if our traits are completely screwed, what “roll” is this you’re talking about lmao? And what class DOESN’T play a better “roll” that we play in spvp? THERE ISN’T ONE.

You’re saying we excel at the roll we were intended to play, then say our trait line needs serious rework. You’re a freaking hypocrite.

Role. Sorry, that was bothering me. And you’re not "lmao"ing. You’re sitting at your computer, and you’re extremely mad, because clearly, someone is WRONG on the internet about imaginary death wizards.

Shelledfade.6435:

Terok.7315:

http://www.teamparadigm.net/forums/Necromancer/374/The-Sorry-State-of-the-Necromancer-in-SPvP-Long-Post/

Finally, a dude who actually knows what hes talking about.

Too many necromancer newbs in this thread that haven’t a clue…

Or we have tried different builds to find the one that suites us. I haven’t had any issues in PvP or PvE with my Necromancer.

General

I actually do agree with some of the stuff the OP is saying even if sometimes (s)he comes off as a touch hostile.

Necromancers have some bugs here and there, but that’s really no surprise as every class seems to have some.

There are some quality of life fixes that would be greatly appreciated (specifically when looking at Minions, area of effect damage is far too effective at wiping them out and the AI is a bit sluggish/unresponsive).

Some of our minor traits seem odd, being specifically geared to a certain build even if it’s not the build you are using (focused again on Minions or Death line here). As a Protection Well Necro I have 20 points in Death, Reanimator and Protection of the Horde do absolutely nothing for my build and it seems very odd to me.

Additionally, a lot of our traits seem to be not working properly at the moment or our skills are not synergizing together as we would expect. Examples being Greater Marks; Banshee’s Wail; Lingering Curses + Hemophilia; and Quickening Thirst (MH) + Quickening Thirst (OH) + Signet of the Locust.

Damage

Condition Damage scaling seems a bit low to the point where many players feel like they have to stack condition damage stat to get it up to more competitive levels, this issue becomes very apparent when you consider how many of our weapon abilities deal condition damage (it’s a lot, which emphasizes the mandatory feel of the stat).

Straight Power build is also low comparative to other professions Power builds. For Dagger I feel like we are too heavily taxed for Life Siphoning which just doesn’t work well for us, any experienced MMO player can tell you that stopping damage before it happens (absorbs, immunities, etc.) is better than healing damage that is done to you. In this game, Dagger Necro spends so much time in melee there needs to be a bit more survivability built into the weapon set.

Axe is okay, but again comparatively the damage is just low to other professions melee builds. For example gearing and traiting to max out Power and Axe damage I hit for about 2/3rds the damage of a less geared but similarly traited melee Warrior.

Support

It also feels like we are lacking boons, specifically group boons. Really the only Boons we give allies, and I may be missing some here, are Protection (Spectral Wall and Ritual of Protection (Death IV) and Regeneration (Mark of Blood and Reaper’s Touch). It would be nice if Locust Swarm also applied Swiftness to nearby allies, Unholy Feast’s Retaliation applied to nearby allies, and even if Reaper’s Touch’s Regen was Might instead (for some variety).

In a similar vein we seem to be lacking combo fields a bit (unless you go Well build) and we are definitely lacking Combo Finishers, which further detracts from our ability to buff allies. Even the combo finishers we do have (like Putrid Mark and Bone Minions) are very finicky to use. Maybe making Deathly Swarm and Locust Swarm into Whirl finishers would help with this.

Builds

I, and I know a few others, really wish there were more top tier builds for Necros. Minion Master is pretty close to being there in my opinion; it just needs a few minion survivability tweaks and some AI improvement. It would be great if we could see a Death Shroud focused build come back (much like the DS builds from beta).

Also, a quick note that I think Focus could still use a bit of work to bring it up to par with other off hands. The change to Spinal Shivers is nice but Reaper’s Touch is still a bit underwhelming (perhaps it’s just me though). Wail of Doom (Warhorn) could also use a bit of readjustment (either increased duration, increased area of effect, or reduced cooldown).

Content

I think that the builds we have right now are very powerful in WvW. I can deal insane amounts of damage to huddles of enemy players with a simple Signet of Spite and Epidemic combination.

For PvE we, again, have some good builds. They are similar to the builds we use for WvW with condition spreading, pure damage, or well support.

SPvP is where the profession seems to struggle the most. We don’t really output the raw damage to compete nor do we have support options that are comparable to what other professions bring. I think Carrion Crow’s post on Paradigm does a good job of explaining the vast majority of the issues here.

The necro is lame. I played alot with him in pvp and there is no viable build. Why did que got precision on cursed trait. That didnt make sense. COndmancer dont do damage alot of invunerable and remove condicion make him worthless and with no burst. SUvive? joke right? we have almost nome tools of invunerabilite or anything like that or some invisibile so melee is out o question for necros (dagger dies). Minions build? or minion explode in nowhere we cant control they, they just wathc and die for aoe. DS…. hum no bad but not good, alot of cooldons low amount of skill bigger cd to turn bad and turn in and almost none of your spells give it back.

I am playing Necro hoping they got some buff, alot of buff.

Skliros.1058:

Acharyn.4738:

You’re a necromancer. Condition and decondition in PvP. AoE at the line of skirmish. You will move it.

Well of Darkness by itself can turn the tide of a large fight. Blind is a truly powerful condition.

Love it, love everything about it. Amazing at choke points. The warriors and other damage classes can literally rush into that well and take the area. Depending on the oppositions range attack power.

But a good player will find another strategy for that.

I think if OP wants to burst he should play a different class. He’s complaining about something that’s not a problem. Necromancers are fine. Since launch we’ve been told to play the classes that feel right for us. It’s just not the right profession for the OP.

Sigma.9746:

Shelledfade.6435:

we are indeed pigeon holed. For example if you wanted to main daggers, you can’t get precision tree- power tree, and blood tree. Even if you did go 30-20-20 in these, then you have no toughness so you will be weak as hell with melee as a main. Total fail. Take a long hard look at the traits for our class and you can see it pigeon shoots you into a roll that is mediocre compared to all the other classes in the game. We excel at nothing because our traits screw us over.

Might it be more productive to show how you feel the traits should be laid out? I’ve given my opinion on the matter earlier in the thread, but a comprehensive breakdown of why the traits are poorly done and how they should be fixed seems like something you have a strong opinion on.

It isn’t really that simple of an answer. It would need a complete 100% rework.

I mean there really is no easy answer for this problem due to the way they completely borked their own entire trait system for necromancer, it just doesn’t make any sense. I mean what do you even do as a dagger necro? I don’t even think you can use daggers in a balanced build because the traits don’t make sense.

I mean your always losing something you vitally need in the build to make it work.

For example we don’t do that much damage because we can’t get %crit bonus damage if we take tough-power-prec. So we crit with axe, but not for much at all, which is pointless since our attacks don’t hit for much at all so we NEED crit and %crit bonus dmg, but just can’t get it.

The only thing you can get away with for necro in terms of a balanced build, is going pwr/prec/cond traits with rampagers set which is what I have for PvE, however I have no toughness or vitality so it’s basically a glass cannon, only it’s not a class cannon at all because I can’t do any freakin burst damage it’s just DoT’s that don’t do enough damage fast enough.

I duno man, it would take me like 2 weeks to figure out how to balance the necro for spvp and by that time you would probably be looking at a completely different class than whan what we have right now. It’s just broken in my opinion. My condition mancer isn’t bad for pve or wvw in a zerg group, but what ranged class isn’t that bad when they can sit back and lay it out from ranged in a zerg group ?? I mean to be frank I’m not even sure why we have a %crit dmg trait when we either crit a lot for no damage or can’t crit at all with gear setups. It’skitten

You just can’t DO that in Spvp though. You die too quickly, and too many people know how to counter conditions in spvp because they’re rolling one of the OP classes. Plus, conditions just do NOT do enough damage fast enough. You’re going to do 20k damage over what? 2-4 minutes? While a warrior can do 20k in under 7 seconds. So you’ll put the dots on but you’ll run for your life if someone spots you. Pointless.

Fresh.4670:

The necro is lame. I played alot with him in pvp and there is no viable build. Why did que got precision on cursed trait. That didnt make sense. COndmancer dont do damage alot of invunerable and remove condicion make him worthless and with no burst. SUvive? joke right? we have almost nome tools of invunerabilite or anything like that or some invisibile so melee is out o question for necros (dagger dies). Minions build? or minion explode in nowhere we cant control they, they just wathc and die for aoe. DS…. hum no bad but not good, alot of cooldons low amount of skill bigger cd to turn bad and turn in and almost none of your spells give it back.

I am playing Necro hoping they got some buff, alot of buff.

While I can’t understand your English well I would like to point out invulnerability… It’s Death Shroud and you can even trait it to last longer or do other things. Such as last longer and make you faster to get away when you’re low.
Also, Spectral Walk.

Its difficult to play but managing your own play style to better benefit the pvp fight. I have found I enjoy my Axe, Dagger/Staff – Well build. If I position well and manage my well CD’s appropriately I enjoy PVP. I have a hard time with Mesmer but depends on the skill of other players and there awareness as to how well I complete a match. 25 Toughness, 30 Vitality, 15 Spite and off I go.

Using Life Transfer then Dark Path to tele is very effecive when dropping a corruption well on somebody.

My build below -

http://www.guildhead.com/skill-calc#MzVzzm0MoxhMMmTbnMf0px0VmRMRb

Rygyr.5309:

Its difficult to play but managing your own play style to better benefit the pvp fight. I have found I enjoy my Axe, Dagger/Staff – Well build. If I position well and manage my well CD’s appropriately I enjoy PVP. I have a hard time with Mesmer but depends on the skill of other players and there awareness as to how well I complete a match. 25 Toughness, 30 Vitality, 15 Spite and off I go.

Using Life Transfer then Dark Path to tele is very effecive when dropping a corruption well on somebody.

My build below -

http://www.guildhead.com/skill-calc#MzVzzm0MoxhMMmTbnMf0px0VmRMRb

Lol you have no power at all. You won’t do any damage at all with this build and you’re relying on wells for all of your effectiveness which have almost a mins worth of cooldown on each of them. All someone has to do is walk out of the circle and you’re effectively useless.

This is your build, when other classes have builds 100x better than this. This is why I made this thread, hopefully the devs read this cuz this is just sad.

Well, I’m not sure if I’d say Crit Damage is a huge problem. Thing with that stat is that you’re better off with a percentage point of Precision until you hit 50% crit chance instead of any Crit Damage. Now, if the Precision → Crit Chance is all out of whack there may be some change, but we need to see the math behind all the attacks before we really make any sweeping declarations about the use of power or precision.

I do think we can talk about Condition damage though. It’s your main source of damage as a Scepter wielding, and Bleed is the big one for that. All the numbers are for lvl80 of course, which gives us 42.5 + 5% of your condition damage per second per stack. Your autoattack adds 1 stack for the first two hits, then a stack of Poison (which is 40 + 10% of your condition damage per second). A full autoattack rotation thus does 8 ticks of bleed and 2 ticks of Poison, giving us 420 + 100% condition damage, all ignoring armor. Base damage for this all is 292, giving us 712 damage without any condition damage or power. As we don’t know how Power factors in I’ll keep is separate at 292(Power) + 420 + Condition Damage. This takes about 5 seconds to do the full damage, and much of it can be removed partway through via condition removal. Can anyone else run the numbers on similarly ranged autoattacks and give us their flat damage before factoring in stats, and we can have a more even base of comparison?

Skliros.1058:

Terok.7315:

However, I would like some clarification on the idea of “intended roles” as it would clear up a lot of my concerns. I was under the impression (from playing other classes and reading dev interviews over the months) that there are no “intended roles” in the sense that class X is pigeon holed into role Y.

I think I used the wrong phrasing there. I didn’t mean a role as in tank/healer/dps. I see the role of the necromancer as a whole as leaning heavily towards the supporting side of things. We have pure DPS builds, sure. Axe is awesome in the right hands. But the damage from it won’t be as good as, say, an elementalist. We can, however, assist groups and turn the tide of large fights better than almost any other class or build. We can heal, we can AoE bleed, we can blind, we can cripple, we can chill, and we can throw conditions back into people’s faces. And we can do it all at the same time, with tons of mobility. One necromancer in a group can make the whole party hit a whole heck of a lot harder, and THAT is our role. Did that clear it up?

Ok, this is what I thought — and I wasn’t implying dps/tank/heal when I used the word “role”. Basically, I’m talking about versatility. We can all offer team support within the mechanics of our respective classes. These types of support builds rely exclusively on others doing the actual killing, however, our class should also be capable of carrying itself without relying on others should we choose a different spec that supports that type of play. Necromancer is the only class I’ve played that just doesn’t allow for this.

Mostly because of poor trait placement decisions, underpowered weapon skills and few utility skills that would support non-condition based builds. And if our gimmick is condition based damage, then minions, the axe and daggers need to reflect this. Vulnerability and an underpowered life-leech aren’t all that useful.

Terok.7315:

Skliros.1058:

Terok.7315:

However, I would like some clarification on the idea of “intended roles” as it would clear up a lot of my concerns. I was under the impression (from playing other classes and reading dev interviews over the months) that there are no “intended roles” in the sense that class X is pigeon holed into role Y.

I think I used the wrong phrasing there. I didn’t mean a role as in tank/healer/dps. I see the role of the necromancer as a whole as leaning heavily towards the supporting side of things. We have pure DPS builds, sure. Axe is awesome in the right hands. But the damage from it won’t be as good as, say, an elementalist. We can, however, assist groups and turn the tide of large fights better than almost any other class or build. We can heal, we can AoE bleed, we can blind, we can cripple, we can chill, and we can throw conditions back into people’s faces. And we can do it all at the same time, with tons of mobility. One necromancer in a group can make the whole party hit a whole heck of a lot harder, and THAT is our role. Did that clear it up?

Ok, this is what I thought — and I wasn’t implying dps/tank/heal when I used the word “role”. Basically, I’m talking about versatility. We can all offer team support within the mechanics of our respective classes. These types of support builds rely exclusively on others doing the actual killing, however, our class should also be capable of carrying itself without relying on others should we choose a different spec that supports that type of play. Necromancer is the only class I’ve played that just doesn’t allow for this.

Mostly because of poor trait placement decisions, underpowered weapon skills and few utility skills that would support non-condition based builds. And if our gimmick is condition based damage, then minions, the axe and daggers need to reflect this. Vulnerability and an underpowered life-leech aren’t all that useful.

This is exactly one of the main issues I have with this. We aren’t effective alone as other classes are. I didn’t roll an awesome necromancer to be a puny little support kitty. I want to be able to own other players with damage and it should be a build we can go into. It’s not.

No class should have to rely on OTHER classes to be effective unless that is the build you choose. This is the problem.

I wanted to throw some black plague death around DoT ownin style. But um yeah, that’s pretty much gets laughed at in s-pvp, especially classes who can drop 20k dps by the time I can even get my DoTs up to do measly damage ticks of 80-90.

What a joke.

They should put in captions under the necromancer character creation (For kitties and kittens who love meow meow useless support time). If I wanted support I woulda rolled a tank warrior or guardian, who knew a freakin necro would take that roll ? I sure as hell didn’t, and if I don’t want to do that, that option or build should be available in the class. Problem is, it’s not due to these crappy traits and skills that barely do any damage.

marianitten.1247:

“It’s not a damage dealer, It’s not a tank, and it’s not a healer”… maybe you can try the Death Knight with Blood spec.. or Paladin with. .. oohh whait.. this is not the WoW forum.

With the necromancer i can kite about 30 mobs without dying. You can remove conditions on allys and use it in yourself for healing. You can revive 3 allys instantly. If you can found useful that.. well…

No class should have to rely on another class to be effective. If you choose to be a support build, that should be an option. You shouldn’t be forced into it.

Sorry but your WoW sarcasm was way off the mark by about 100 internets to the east where brony-people actually give a crap.

I haven’t played WoW since burning crusade either, and don’t ever intend to buy another blizz game after Diafail 3, which I got a full refund for.

Thank you.

Shelledfade.6435:

Rygyr.5309:

Its difficult to play but managing your own play style to better benefit the pvp fight. I have found I enjoy my Axe, Dagger/Staff – Well build. If I position well and manage my well CD’s appropriately I enjoy PVP. I have a hard time with Mesmer but depends on the skill of other players and there awareness as to how well I complete a match. 25 Toughness, 30 Vitality, 15 Spite and off I go.

Using Life Transfer then Dark Path to tele is very effecive when dropping a corruption well on somebody.

My build below -

http://www.guildhead.com/skill-calc#MzVzzm0MoxhMMmTbnMf0px0VmRMRb

Lol you have no power at all. You won’t do any damage at all with this build and you’re relying on wells for all of your effectiveness which have almost a mins worth of cooldown on each of them. All someone has to do is walk out of the circle and you’re effectively useless.

This is your build, when other classes have builds 100x better than this. This is why I made this thread, hopefully the devs read this cuz this is just sad.

This looks like a good CC and kiting build. What’s with the need for power? It’s not a build to solo, that’s for sure. But you don’t solo in this game.
Applying all those wells and conditions will mark him/her as one of the players that kills them. When they die there are a bunch of little bone minions running around the enemy ranks.

That staff is really good for running away. Trap your path and the enemy either runs into it or has to zig and/or zag.

Shelledfade.6435:

I want to be able to own other players with damage and it should be a build we can go into. It’s not.

No class should have to rely on OTHER classes to be effective unless that is the build you choose. This is the problem.

Ignoring the abusive part here. You need to pick a different class. In GW1, the necromancer was a supporting class. There were a couple good damage builds, like there are here, but overall it was a supporter. In GW2, the necromancer has kept its original theme, which Arenanet has been abundantly clear about in all the releases about the profession. Guild Wars 2 is not a solo game. There is no solo PvP for a good reason. Not a single one of the classes is meant to exceed all by itself. It’s in the name: Guild Wars. A guild is a large group of people unified by a cause. Go get yourself a couple good friends, queue up, and enjoy the game as it was designed to be played. Or keep running solo into organized teams and dying horribly. My guess is you’re rolling a Warrior or Guardian right now, and you’ll die horribly with those, too. Teamwork, dude. It’s how you win games.

Shelledfade.6435:

No class should have to rely on another class to be effective. If you choose to be a support build, that should be an option. You shouldn’t be forced into it.

Okay, say you’re the powerful tanking Guardian or Warrior. You come across another. Go ahead and 1v1 him.

Say you come across 2 powerful tanking Guardian(s) and/or Warrior(s). Unless they suck, skill wise, not level or equipment, you will die. Maybe take one with you but he’ll be rallied.

Now finally, say you come across 2 powerful tanks again. This time you have a Necromancer or any other support. If your support partner is good you will kill them easily, if one of the tank classes isn’t doing a support role.

Skliros.1058:

Shelledfade.6435:

I want to be able to own other players with damage and it should be a build we can go into. It’s not.

No class should have to rely on OTHER classes to be effective unless that is the build you choose. This is the problem.

Ignoring the abusive part here. You need to pick a different class. In GW1, the necromancer was a supporting class. There were a couple good damage builds, like there are here, but overall it was a supporter. In GW2, the necromancer has kept its original theme, which Arenanet has been abundantly clear about in all the releases about the profession. Guild Wars 2 is not a solo game. There is no solo PvP for a good reason. Not a single one of the classes is meant to exceed all by itself. It’s in the name: Guild Wars. A guild is a large group of people unified by a cause. Go get yourself a couple good friends, queue up, and enjoy the game as it was designed to be played. Or keep running solo into organized teams and dying horribly. My guess is you’re rolling a Warrior or Guardian right now, and you’ll die horribly with those, too. Teamwork, dude. It’s how you win games.

It seems that necromancer is the odd duck out within this balance philosophy. Most classes can solo PvP without having to rely on synergy with other professions. They can also trait themselves for heavy team support/dependency. Necromancer is forced into dependency through conditions or less viable DD axe/dagger MH builds. But really, the biggest issue isn’t that we need others to carry us — it’s that alternatives to squishy conditionmancer are poor. We have one competitive cookie-cutter build for PvP, everything else is just an easy kill.

If the point of SPvP is teamwork, synergy and cohesion — the DD axe/dagger MH necromancer is hurting their team by denying a spot to a DD thief, or a warrior, or a mesmer, or a power/crit engineer, or a guardian, etc.. Classes that are much more proficient at dealing direct damage.

Terok.7315:

It seems that necromancer is the odd duck out within this balance philosophy. Most classes can solo PvP without having to rely on synergy with other professions. They can also trait themselves for heavy team support/dependency. Necromancer is forced into dependency through conditions or less viable DD axe/dagger MH builds. But really, the biggest issue isn’t that we need others to carry us — it’s that alternatives to squishy conditionmancer are poor. We have one competitive cookie-cutter build for PvP, everything else is just an easy kill.

If the point of SPvP is teamwork, synergy and cohesion — the DD axe/dagger MH necromancer is hurting their team by denying a spot to a DD thief, or a warrior, or a mesmer, or a power/crit engineer, or a guardian, etc.. Classes that are much more proficient at dealing direct damage.

At this point in the game- you pretty much hit the nail on the head. The necromancer, mesmer, and engineer to a lesser extent definitely have a much harder time soloing, just due to their low single-target damage capability. For necro, I feel like axe or D/Warhorn should have been our strong solo builds… but their traits are too spread out to spec for effectively. They’re strong in their own right, but when held up against the single-target damage of other classes they pale a bit.

My overall point, however, is this: Necromancers are in a state right now that, yes, needs work to be able to do some things better. But right now, before anything has been changed or fixed, as arguably the most problem-ridden class in the game… We still do really well in both PvP and PvE. We can nitpick all we want, and complain that we should be doing better, but at the end of the day, I clean house in both sPvP and WvWvW. I play three very different builds (Staff/Wells, squishy BiP/epidemic, and Power Axe) and I do well with all of them. I feel a bit pigeonholed in that I had to shelve my Minon Master burst build for the time being, and dagger mainhand is underwhelming, but I’m more than willing to wait for Anet to get around to that. The class doesn’t suck. We’re not as good at some things as we are as others, but we’re still pretty darn terrifying in PvP, and a valuable addition to a party in dungeons. And, I I’m happy with that. To me, the necro feels cooler than the other classes, somehow, so I’ll keep playing it. Maybe playing a GS warrior would give me more badges, and my rank would be even higher, but I wouldn’t be having as much fun. And fun is worth more than imaginary points any day.

Without reading all posts ; I love my Necro but the OP is right as well as the guy from team Paradigma.

I will keep playing my Necro in PVE sPVP tPVP and WvW. I like the style and the gameplay. But in the current state, you will not win a 1v1 against a player with the same skill level of another class.

According to the dev’s the Necro needs lots of love, they stated that after BWE3. I assume they either don’t have time to do it, just don’t care, or listen to the fan boys who push the issues the Necro has down.

Shelledfade.6435:

Why do I have 900+ condition damage in PvE if bleed only uses 5% of my condition damage?.

Lol, you’re garbage.

Come back when you have 1600 condition damage and 26’000 hp.

IzenHart.1326:

Shelledfade.6435:

Why do I have 900+ condition damage in PvE if bleed only uses 5% of my condition damage?.

Lol, you’re garbage.

Come back when you have 1600 condition damage and 26’000 hp.

LMFAO. screenshot, or it didn’t happen. KK thx. (pve)

Terok.7315:

Skliros.1058:

Shelledfade.6435:

I want to be able to own other players with damage and it should be a build we can go into. It’s not.

No class should have to rely on OTHER classes to be effective unless that is the build you choose. This is the problem.

Ignoring the abusive part here. You need to pick a different class. In GW1, the necromancer was a supporting class. There were a couple good damage builds, like there are here, but overall it was a supporter. In GW2, the necromancer has kept its original theme, which Arenanet has been abundantly clear about in all the releases about the profession. Guild Wars 2 is not a solo game. There is no solo PvP for a good reason. Not a single one of the classes is meant to exceed all by itself. It’s in the name: Guild Wars. A guild is a large group of people unified by a cause. Go get yourself a couple good friends, queue up, and enjoy the game as it was designed to be played. Or keep running solo into organized teams and dying horribly. My guess is you’re rolling a Warrior or Guardian right now, and you’ll die horribly with those, too. Teamwork, dude. It’s how you win games.

It seems that necromancer is the odd duck out within this balance philosophy. Most classes can solo PvP without having to rely on synergy with other professions. They can also trait themselves for heavy team support/dependency. Necromancer is forced into dependency through conditions or less viable DD axe/dagger MH builds. But really, the biggest issue isn’t that we need others to carry us — it’s that alternatives to squishy conditionmancer are poor. We have one competitive cookie-cutter build for PvP, everything else is just an easy kill.

If the point of SPvP is teamwork, synergy and cohesion — the DD axe/dagger MH necromancer is hurting their team by denying a spot to a DD thief, or a warrior, or a mesmer, or a power/crit engineer, or a guardian, etc.. Classes that are much more proficient at dealing direct damage.

- Insert nail into someones head that doesn’t get it.

This is why when I go “LFG tourny, necro” in mists, and there is NOTHING but crickets.

While everyone is looking for a thief or a warrior usually. Or any other class OTHER than a necro lol…

Come on now….

Necro isn’t useful at all. Not at all compared to these other classes.

Half of our Traits are broken (as in they do nothing, or do something they shouldn’t do), the minion AI is bugged and our damage is very low.

In PvE Wells and Conditions do well enough.
I’ve gotten to lv80 and it was fun and not exactly difficult.
Dagger+Warhorn is very fun too, if not exactly very efficient!

Necromancers obviously aren’t “OMG LOL USELESS”, but they definitely are underpowered and glitchy.
They are definitely very limited to certain builds because most of our traits and skills are so underpowered.

I remember somebody from Arenanet saying “the Necromancer is in need of some love” so they definitely know about it.

We’ll probably get fixes and buffs after they’ve dealt with account hackings, server issues and other major bugs.

Also I’ll point out that even if you are correct throwing a temper tantrum at people you do not agree with makes you look like the one being wrong even when you are not.
Be calm and polite and people will respect your opinions more.

Shelledfade.6435:

Don’t tell me to be calm or polite when I get mykitten handed to me in spvp on top of investing 200 hours into a broken class when blind fanboys are trying to say something isn’t broken when all the evidence is pointing that this class is clearly broken. Thanks.

Kind of agree with op. As a necromancer, my input in battlefield is not remarkable at all; everything I do as necromancer, some other class can do better. Maybe spreading diseases, but as they are atm, their influence is quite weak and be easily cancelled.

And as op mentioned, I haven’t noticed one time that tourny group is looking for necromancer and that alone is quite strong proof imo.