Guild Wars 2

We all know that the necromancer’s primary mechanic is broken. And balancing around it has been a nightmare for the devs, I’m sure. And fixing it wont be easy and chances are we need to have a major change to it. So here are my thoughts. Bear with me, this suggestion is a drastic change to death shroud and how players will be able to use it.

I’ll explain the changes I’m suggesting then I’ll talk on what other things would have to change in order to make it work properly. Remember that this is a huge suggestion, so please take the time to consider it before commenting.

Death Shroud:

1. Healing: All heals should now effect your health pool while in death shroud. However, since you can’t take real damage in death shroud the heals you get will be reduced. By about 33%-50% depending on balance requirements.
2. Life stealing: Life steal will work in death shroud but unlike normal healing, is 100% effective.
3. Utility skills: While in death shroud you will be given access to your heal and utility skills. This may or may not include the elite. If it did include the elite, entering plague form or Lich form would drop you out of death shroud.
4. Spectral skills: These skills will be the only skills that change while in death shroud. Because they generate life force most the time, when your death shroud is active their effect might have a different effect.
5. Reduce the pool of death shroud with these changes: With these changes we would be way too powerful with our current death shroud. So we need something to offset these changes in order to make it fair. Right now, at level 80 with no investment in Soul Reaping, we have about 11k in death shroud. While we normally have about 18k health. About an extra 60% to our life. So this will need to be drastically lowered in order to make up for the changes above. It’ll still scale up with your health but not quite as much. Making it about 33% of your life total will let you have a burst of defense while healing. To add to that, a change to soul reaping would be needed. Rather then scaling 30% in total, this might need to be increased. How much depends. My thoughts are 60% at full.

With these changes the necromancer will be able to do things it otherwise wouldn’t be able to do. its ability to support allies will increase greatly. Being able to take Plague signet on a build with the blood magic trait that transfers conditions would be one example of superior condition control. Running over to an ally with shroud up and popping a well over them to blind or convert conditions without having to leave your defenses. Or maybe even using a few wells while using Deathly Perception.

I believe these changes will greatly improve our attrition abilities. Some traits would have to be changed in order to better suit these changes. Such as Unholy Sanctuary which would become redundant. However, having this increase the healing we receive along with its auto casting on near death could be an decent alternative.

Do note, that this is just a suggestion. My personal thoughts on how it should be changed after playing the necromancer for a few years. Leave your comments and try not to be too harsh.

I think it’s an amazing way to revamp necromancer. Not only it’ll help necromancer substain in small fight – 5v5 tpvp – but, also, it’ll actually reduce necromancer over the top tankiness in wvw zerg fight commonly referred as GWEN. Overall, they will be more balanced surviability wise in all gamemode without being overtop in one, and subpar in another.

Now the question is: Do they ever care?

Poplolita.2638:

I think it’s an amazing way to revamp necromancer. Not only it’ll help necromancer substain in small fight – 5v5 tpvp – but, also, it’ll actually reduce necromancer over the top tankiness in wvw zerg fight commonly referred as GWEN. Overall, they will be more balanced surviability wise in all gamemode without being overtop in one, and subpar in another.

Now the question is: Do they ever care?

They do care. There are a few problems though. Arena Net has a tone on its plate already so asking for something so major wouldn’t be ideal for them. Another problem is that if they can find a simple fix then that would be preferable. The problem with the simple fixes is that it hasn’t worked for us in terms of balance since the necromancer’s debut in the pre release demos. The Death shroud mechanic is either too powerful or too underwhelming and often times its both in multiple situations because of its scaling.

I agree with changes #1 & 2.

I think if those were the only changes made, then the offsetting reductions in #4&5 would not be needed.

TheAgedGnome.7520:

I agree with changes #1 & 2.

I think if those were the only changes made, then the offsetting reductions in #4&5 would not be needed.

I think we would end up with the same problem of scaling as we had before. And it wouldn’t help us any in terms of being CCed to death all the time.

Lily.1935:

And it wouldn’t help us any in terms of being CCed to death all the time.

And how will it help with your changes? Being CCed to death lies not within the interaction with DS and utilities but with the utilities itself. Right now our stunbreaks do not prevent us from getting CCed by a next hit. Skills like blink, stand your ground, balanced stance,… give you a way to stop the next CC. The only one is flesh wurm but it’s cast time kills that functionality.

Tim.6450:

Lily.1935:

And it wouldn’t help us any in terms of being CCed to death all the time.

And how will it help with your changes? Being CCed to death lies not within the interaction with DS and utilities but with the utilities itself. Right now our stunbreaks do not prevent us from getting CCed by a next hit. Skills like blink, stand your ground, balanced stance,… give you a way to stop the next CC. The only one is flesh wurm but it’s cast time kills that functionality.

its actually a combination of both. The lack of utility in death shroud makes us very susceptible to CC along with the utility themselves. With these changes combine, Utility can be utilized and scaled differently then before because they would be usable in Death shroud. Providing a cover like well of darkness for us, or breaking in death shroud to allow us to utilize our skills in more situations. And pertaining to flesh wurm, giving the trait Foot in the Grave you can enter death shroud, prevent the CC then have the wurm up and keep yourself from being completely controlled. Though that is just one example.

Lily.1935:

Tim.6450:

Lily.1935:

And it wouldn’t help us any in terms of being CCed to death all the time.

And how will it help with your changes? Being CCed to death lies not within the interaction with DS and utilities but with the utilities itself. Right now our stunbreaks do not prevent us from getting CCed by a next hit. Skills like blink, stand your ground, balanced stance,… give you a way to stop the next CC. The only one is flesh wurm but it’s cast time kills that functionality.

its actually a combination of both. The lack of utility in death shroud makes us very susceptible to CC along with the utility themselves. With these changes combine, Utility can be utilized and scaled differently then before because they would be usable in Death shroud. Providing a cover like well of darkness for us, or breaking in death shroud to allow us to utilize our skills in more situations. And pertaining to flesh wurm, giving the trait Foot in the Grave you can enter death shroud, prevent the CC then have the wurm up and keep yourself from being completely controlled. Though that is just one example.

Wouldn’t this be too powerful even with death shroud ~ 33% life force reduction? When I read #3 Utility, for some reason, I read something like : Being able to watch your utility cooldown while in death shroud.

Poplolita.2638:

Wouldn’t this be too powerful even with death shroud ~ 33% life force reduction? When I read #3 Utility, for some reason, I read something like : Being able to watch your utility cooldown while in death shroud.

I honestly don’t know. And the thing about these type of things is we can’t know for sure without actually testing them. And since I’m not a tester for the game, and I doubt anyone here who posts regularly is either, all we can do is speculate.

The amount of life force you would have at level 80 with no modifications would be about 6k with this change. Significantly less, but still very noticeable. Also, for the Utility’s, actually being able to use them would be nice. Suddenly signets are active in Death shroud and you can stunbreak. This would be really nice to be able to do. We are the only profession were our mechanic works against us in some situations. The only other profession that might have the problem of the mechanic working against them is the ranger. But I digress.

I think we can speculate on how this might effect us though.

I cant agree with everything you suggested. Going the direction you are intenting will push DS more into a third weapon set, limited with bonus health. This makes the profession mechanic rather dull. The only things needed in my opinion:

- We benefit to 100% from all self heals, siphons, traits, heal over time, etc. that is done directly by us.
- We can see the cooldowns of all skills on our bar while in DS, we cant use utilities, healing or elite skills though. Passive signet effects would still work.
- We are able to swap weapons while in DS. This will help especially for damage rotations, and sigils.

I think these things should be done as a standard fix for the profession mechanic, before they balance all the skills and traits. It opens up different build options. DS would feel better, and more suitable for all kind of builds. I think these are the changes we could realisticly expect, if the devs would start to listen.

Now, for utopia i would wish:

- Lifeblast is altered based on your mainhand weapon.
- Life Transfer is altered based on your offhand weapon.

This would give us a little bit more customizations for our profession mechanic, right now everything is done by traits, we have so many traits affecting only lifeblast, one skill. Some trait spots would be empty, making room for more interesting traits.

Brujeria.7536:

I cant agree with everything you suggested. Going the direction you are intenting will push DS more into a third weapon set, limited with bonus health. This makes the profession mechanic rather dull. The only things needed in my opinion:

- We benefit to 100% from all self heals, siphons, traits, heal over time, etc. that is done directly by us.
- We can see the cooldowns of all skills on our bar while in DS, we cant use utilities, healing or elite skills though. Passive signet effects would still work.
- We are able to swap weapons while in DS. This will help especially for damage rotations, and sigils.

I think these things should be done as a standard fix for the profession mechanic, before they balance all the skills and traits. It opens up different build options. DS would feel better, and more suitable for all kind of builds. I think these are the changes we could realisticly expect, if the devs would start to listen.

Now, for utopia i would wish:

- Lifeblast is altered based on your mainhand weapon.
- Life Transfer is altered based on your offhand weapon.

This would give us a little bit more customizations for our profession mechanic, right now everything is done by traits, we have so many traits affecting only lifeblast, one skill. Some trait spots would be empty, making room for more interesting traits.

Death shroud is already rather dull as it is. And very parasitic. Allowing us just to heal in death shroud from other party members and life stealing added to the current system would be overpowering. It would further the unbalance we already have.

Why?
PvE = deathshroud is fine.
WvW = deathshroud is fine.
sPvP = not 100% sure but with experienced players, should be fine.

So why a revamp? After playing Necro… since Beta…. I feel like I have more than a good grasp of Deathshroud and I don’t have trouble managing it, although I do trait for it a bit. I don’t think it needs “fixing”… because it isn’t broken.
It’s a team player game and people should stop treating it as a single player game. I think a lot of the time people complain about something but they don’t even put it into a team context. “Oh, I can’t cleanse while I’m in DS”. Yeah, well… bring a shout guardian or shout warrior with/without warhorn, staff ele with 30 in water magic, or other supporty things, and you’ll be fine because others will cover your weaknesses. It’s just how a team-player game works.

The only thing that would make deathshroud a bit easier would be to increase the amount that you gain from common skills because as is, if you don’t trait for it, it isn’t easy to come by – but that’s it. Maybe a tiny buff here and there, like reducing the natural deathshroud degeneration, sprinkle in a permanent Soul Marks (without having to trait for it) but a complete revamp? Nah. I think if they just upped the amount we get from normal Necro things, things would be just fine and there wouldn’t be a need to make it any more complex than it already is.
Just my thoughts.

I agree, I think they could allow some or all healing to go through DS if they reduced the amount of total LF we could have.

MethaneGas.8357:

Why?
PvE = deathshroud is fine.
WvW = deathshroud is fine.
sPvP = not 100% sure but with experienced players, should be fine.

So why a revamp? After playing Necro… since Beta…. I feel like I have more than a good grasp of Deathshroud and I don’t have trouble managing it, although I do trait for it a bit. I don’t think it needs “fixing”… because it isn’t broken.
It’s a team player game and people should stop treating it as a single player game. I think a lot of the time people complain about something but they don’t even put it into a team context. “Oh, I can’t cleanse while I’m in DS”. Yeah, well… bring a shout guardian or shout warrior with/without warhorn, staff ele with 30 in water magic, or other supporty things, and you’ll be fine because others will cover your weaknesses. It’s just how a team-player game works.

The only thing that would make deathshroud a bit easier would be to increase the amount that you gain from common skills because as is, if you don’t trait for it, it isn’t easy to come by – but that’s it. Maybe a tiny buff here and there, like reducing the natural deathshroud degeneration, sprinkle in a permanent Soul Marks (without having to trait for it) but a complete revamp? Nah. I think if they just upped the amount we get from normal Necro things, things would be just fine and there wouldn’t be a need to make it any more complex than it already is.
Just my thoughts.

Couldn’t disagree more. But that’s why I made this post.

Death shroud has a mega tone of problems. Both in balance and mechanical. It doesn’t function well with life stealing, you can’t interact with party members while in it(well, at least until tuesday), Signets become less effective, your party support in DS is sub par, You can’t stun break, are very vulnerable to CC(something an attrition profession shouldn’t be vulnerable to.).

Death shroud is an Island by itself. Very little interacts with it and the things that do need to be traited for it. And the few things that Do interact with it mostly just generate death shroud and have no effect while in death shroud, say for a few exceptions.

I’ve been playing the necromancer as my main since I started. I really like the profession. But its lacking in every area that it matters. Its a very selfish profession which is bizarre considering how much of a support profession it was in GW1 and that its sold as a supporty, attritiony profession.

But that’s why we are talking about this. Not all of us are going to agree.

I disagree with adding utilities/heal to DS. This creates a mass of balance issues without particularly solving any on its own. The only core issue with DS is that it wastes your own traits, and can trick your allies into wasting theirs. So allow self traited healing/regen to go through DS at 100%, fix the party UI so allies can know what’s going on, and then give DS some proper AoE scaling. That’s really all of the core changes to current mechanics we need besides some number tweaks here and there.

Outside of that Necromancer needs new mechanics (utilities/heals/elites/weapons/traits) to fix our other issues like lack of build diversity, badness in PvE, etc.

Bhawb.7408:

I disagree with adding utilities/heal to DS. This creates a mass of balance issues without particularly solving any on its own. The only core issue with DS is that it wastes your own traits, and can trick your allies into wasting theirs. So allow self traited healing/regen to go through DS at 100%, fix the party UI so allies can know what’s going on, and then give DS some proper AoE scaling. That’s really all of the core changes to current mechanics we need besides some number tweaks here and there.

Outside of that Necromancer needs new mechanics (utilities/heals/elites/weapons/traits) to fix our other issues like lack of build diversity, badness in PvE, etc.

See, people keep saying this sort of thing but they never give an example. I still disagree with you and all the other people who say this sort of thing. Provide me an example of how this wouldn’t work.

Also, Even if it doesn’t work Arena net should still test the possibility. Just throwing ideas out the window because you don’t see them working isn’t going to help the profession. From where I’m standing, these suggestions together solve a great big chunk of our problems that are commonly complained about both from players who don’t play the profession and those that do.