Guild Wars 2

At first you had me worried that you were saying our normal HP was only 1/3 what it should be :P

But yes, this is something I have noticed (although had no idea that was how bad it was), and should be fixed.

This explains a lot

Execrable.1064:

I feel like this issue isn’t getting the attention it deserves. This is a big issue. Necromancer has only 1/3 (33%) of the hp pool of every other class in downed state. Targuil has done the research as shown in these threads:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/Necromancer-PvE-downed-state-health/first#post1874197

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Necromancer-downed-state-bugged/page/2#post1828038

This is a BIG DEAL. This bug exists in PvE and WvW, but NOT in sPVP. I am reposting this to try and ensure that the problem is noticed and corrected in a timely manner. If it was a quality of life thing or a tooltip error, I wouldn’t be trying to shine such a light on this issue, but it’s not, it’s a very important issue that puts necromancers at a disadvantage.

Creating a new thread doesn’t have the same effect as continuing to keep the old thread going.

I actually did the original post about this in a thread in this subforum too. It has a better topic name though as this is quite misleading. Still, whatever raises awareness about it is good.

Edit: It’s here https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Necromancer-downed-state-bugged/first

Agreed. Keep this thread bumped and hopefully we will get a response or a fix eventually.

We should keep all the threads bumped, because this is a pretty big issue. As another player said in another related thread, this is making the Necro a liability when grouping.

Targuil, I understand why you feel the topic title is misleading, but it was formulated intentionally. I tried about 5 ways to put “downed state” into the topic while emphasizing the problem, but I kept running up against the character limit. Bas – I created a new thread because I felt like Targuil’s thread title was a little misleading itself. Someone could look at “Necromancer down state bugged?” and think any number of things, one of which, oh someone thinks there might be a bug. Targuil doesn’t think there is a bug, he knows there is one. Also, it’s not just a minor bug, but a major one, and that’s not identified in the thread title either.

I shall bump this.

This issue has been bothering me more and more recently. It’s not uncommon in the higher fractals for me to die in situations where, if our downed health weren’t bugged, I would have been fully rezzed in the next second or two.

Achilevel.1807:

This issue has been bothering me more and more recently. It’s not uncommon in the higher fractals for me to die in situations where, if our downed health weren’t bugged, I would have been fully rezzed in the next second or two.

This

In WvW it’s even more of an issue, I’m never getting stomped, 3+ peoples hitting me means death in 1-2 seconds, sometimes instantly, when I play on my other professions my friends can help and even rez me.

I’ll bump the bug thread each day to make sure it’s visible.

Panhauramix.2784:

In WvW it’s even more of an issue, I’m never getting stomped, 3+ peoples hitting me means death in 1-2 seconds, sometimes instantly, when I play on my other professions my friends can help and even rez me.

I’ll bump the bug thread each day to make sure it’s visible.

Well, granted, that should be closer to what the case is for everyone in WvW since the downed state is pretty ridiculously survivable, but that’s no reason why only 1 class should be at that level.

I don’t really play other classes so I never noticed this as a problem, but ever since it was posted I have been very aware of how quickly player’s die when being hit in downed state and it seems like I die much faster than others.

Doesnt this mean we also heal up to full faster with our life drain?

Honestly never noticed this bug lol. Not much we can do to avoid a stomp anyway (more than 1 person).

Kilger.5490:

Doesnt this mean we also heal up to full faster with our life drain?

Honestly never noticed this bug lol. Not much we can do to avoid a stomp anyway (more than 1 person).

No, pretty sure thats done by percentage. Basically this bug just means an attack on us while downed is much more likely to 1shot us, whereas other classes could take maybe 3 of those attacks and be fine and ressed.

spoj.9672:

Kilger.5490:

Doesnt this mean we also heal up to full faster with our life drain?

Honestly never noticed this bug lol. Not much we can do to avoid a stomp anyway (more than 1 person).

No, pretty sure thats done by percentage. Basically this bug just means an attack on us while downed is much more likely to 1shot us, whereas other classes could take maybe 3 of those attacks and be fine and ressed.

Actually it does heal us faster percentage-wise by not being percentage-related. Though there are few situations you can actually use this to your advantage over having more health in downed.

Bump this!
I find it ridiculous that the devs didn´t even manage to answer on such a huge issue yet, as it isn´t just a minor thing bugged. it´s a huge thing that every class except the necromancer has. There downed state isn´t just a little bit better, it´s 3! times better

If this is actually the case, then I’m not entirely sure I’d want it changed. As of right now, Bloodthirst + Life Leech is enough to Rally you, even while sustaining a low to medium damage input. If we had 66% more HP while downed, Life Leech would -not- be able to Rally you alone, and you would be forced to use Bandage in order to Rally.

Life Leech is not percentage-based in terms of Lifesteal, while I’m fairly certain that the bleed-out while Downed is based off of your Maximum Life in the Downed state. This is actually easily tested with the +50/80/100% Downed HP consumable; The damage tick will increase by approximately 50/80/100% while the consumable is active.

Life Leech, however, does -not- increase in healing while this consumable is active.

This would make increasing the Downed HP pool a double-sided blade; It would hurt us as well as help in some cases. If they were to increase Life Leech to be a percentage based Lifesteal, however, we would be leeching more health while downed than we would be while actually in combat. I doubt Arenanet wants that outcome.

The problem is that this is more of a niche scenario. When would this additional 66% HP actually save you? In PvP while getting stomped, it doesn’t matter if you have 5 HP or 5 million HP. You’re dead as soon as you’re stomped. In PvE, it would prolong your death a bit if you had multiple monsters beating on you, but the bleed-out would be the same as if you had 66% less health, and you would have to be out of combat in order to Rally via Bandage. You might be saved if you had two or three party members reviving you, and that Health increase would have allowed you to live. But I can personally count on one hand the number of times where that scenario may have played out true, while I can not count the number of times that Life Leech alone has saved me.

So is there really a ‘good’ outcome for this?

Arianna.7642:

If this is actually the case, then I’m not entirely sure I’d want it changed. As of right now, Bloodthirst + Life Leech is enough to Rally you, even while sustaining a low to medium damage input. If we had 66% more HP while downed, Life Leech would -not- be able to Rally you alone, and you would be forced to use Bandage in order to Rally.

Life Leech is not percentage-based in terms of Lifesteal, while I’m fairly certain that the bleed-out while Downed is based off of your Maximum Life in the Downed state. This is actually easily tested with the +50/80/100% Downed HP consumable; The damage tick will increase by approximately 50/80/100% while the consumable is active.

Life Leech, however, does -not- increase in healing while this consumable is active.

This would make increasing the Downed HP pool a double-sided blade; It would hurt us as well as help in some cases. If they were to increase Life Leech to be a percentage based Lifesteal, however, we would be leeching more health while downed than we would be while actually in combat. I doubt Arenanet wants that outcome.

The problem is that this is more of a niche scenario. When would this additional 66% HP actually save you? In PvP while getting stomped, it doesn’t matter if you have 5 HP or 5 million HP. You’re dead as soon as you’re stomped. In PvE, it would prolong your death a bit if you had multiple monsters beating on you, but the bleed-out would be the same as if you had 66% less health, and you would have to be out of combat in order to Rally via Bandage. You might be saved if you had two or three party members reviving you, and that Health increase would have allowed you to live. But I can personally count on one hand the number of times where that scenario may have played out true, while I can not count the number of times that Life Leech alone has saved me.

So is there really a ‘good’ outcome for this?

Remember that healing ticks from people reviving you are also based on your max health (and a few things that increase reviving speed). Meaning in PvE/WvW, it is substantially more difficult to revive a necro that is under fire than it is to revive anyone else, because the max health is so much lower, between the lessened time for them to die and the smaller healing ticks.

Also, a note for you and this thread in general: the downed health is NOT lowered in sPvP, only PvE/WvW.

Lol, I read this to be general HP at first, too.

“Necros only have 30K health?! What?! 90K FTW”

I’m glad that people are figuring out how very good life leech is currently, due to the small life pool limiting the absolute size of the degeneration. However, I don’t think that’s enough reason to insist on keeping the small health pool in PvE downed state. The option still remains to buff the healing on life leech to match the (new) typical degen, or even making it disable the degen similarly to how bandage functions.

Edit:
The post below me by Panhauramix is very true.

You normally can’t rally with life leech alone in WvW, even if you down someone exactly at the same time, they will kill you because of health difference. Now 1-2 more sec don’t seems to make more difference, but I can’t tell you the numbers of time I was that close to rally because of someone dying, and instead of been stomped I’m pummeled to death in seconds. A warrior using his Vengeance skill can literally down you, and finish you with a couple hits and rally, no stomping needed.

I would love to see this fix sooner than later.

Wow wait what? Is our downed hp really lower? (i never really noticed since its either death by being overwhelmed or jjust not getting downed with how i bullrush into stuff if im allowed/it cannot wipe the team) Maybe that has to do with the fact that DS used to be our downed state too…

It seems like a bug, as it is only in PvE/WvW, would seem a bit silly for them to have that kind of an inconsistency without it being a bug (but who knows I guess).

Bhawb.7408:

It seems like a bug, as it is only in PvE/WvW, would seem a bit silly for them to have that kind of an inconsistency without it being a bug (but who knows I guess).

Well the combat log in PvE and WvWvW is pretty much useless while the death log in PvP describes everything that got you down despite it being the same engine…

Funny that I’ve never really noticed this. I guess not many did. :P
However now that I think of it this does explain why I can get off my Fetid Ground in sPvP more often than in PvE even though by all logic I should be dying faster in sPvP.

I tend to either die OR rally before it’s ready… and this explains both. Heh.

I didn’t know about the lowered HP’s at all, but it explains a great many things!

I would prefer to kill faster than live longer, so bring rest of the classes to necromancer HP lvl

You can remove necro and the semicolon from the title since you put it in the necro forum so we can assume thats who you are talking about
See if [Downed HP 1/3 of normal] fits in the title without brackets

ah! I always found it way too low, glad to know it’s bugged. waiting for a fix.

Bhawb.7408:

At first you had me worried that you were saying our normal HP was only 1/3 what it should be :P

But yes, this is something I have noticed (although had no idea that was how bad it was), and should be fixed.

haha was my same thought, I was about to sinch tight my WTFhat. But yes I do agree, our downed state is buggy at best. traits don’t work properly, health is seriously borked (the major issue with it) targeting doesn’t work properly, I’ve even had a few random line of sight problems when they were standing right in front of me. This has all been recorded in videos, time for a fix ladies and gents. While many of our other bugs are annoyances rather than gamebreaking, I’d file this one as borderline gamebreaking.

One side note though: leeching does work,and bloodthirst seems to work too, about the only trait that does. Because if no one is hitting me, I can rally off #1 skill alone, and while I shudder to think this….it may be why they deemed our downed hp lower.

Bump for great justice.

I never understood how I was dying so fast in downed state. Even despite that other classes have some better skills and esp tricks to pull in downed, you could tell they just could take enormously more punishment, while vs us, any dps build focusing on us means death in seconds.

Major major bug that needs to be addressed ASAP. I would edit the title for clarity though.

I paid a little more attention to my downed sate in wvw because of this thread.

I was downed at the same time as a thief. We both just auto attacked each other.
Before the thief got back up he was still at about 50% hp, the whole thing was over before fetid ground was even ready to use.
My normal hp pool is 26k btw.

Nay of the Ether.8913:

One side note though: leeching does work,and bloodthirst seems to work too, about the only trait that does. Because if no one is hitting me, I can rally off #1 skill alone, and while I shudder to think this….it may be why they deemed our downed hp lower.

I noticed this as well. Skill #1 pretty much always gets me to rally if I’m fighting in a group and the enemy is focusing on someone else. However, if I am soloing PvE (which is what I do), and an enemy is hitting me, I pretty much never rally.

lookitsandrea.8531:

Nay of the Ether.8913:

One side note though: leeching does work,and bloodthirst seems to work too, about the only trait that does. Because if no one is hitting me, I can rally off #1 skill alone, and while I shudder to think this….it may be why they deemed our downed hp lower.

I noticed this as well. Skill #1 pretty much always gets me to rally if I’m fighting in a group and the enemy is focusing on someone else. However, if I am soloing PvE (which is what I do), and an enemy is hitting me, I pretty much never rally.

Seems alot of people are more fortunate than me with this bug. Ive never rallied with 1 unless i killed something. The mobs always focus other members of the team but when im almost healed they decide to just throw a pot shot at me and 1shot me. Very frustrating at times because it means my teammates have to get me up within seconds of going down or just forget about me. Its the one thing that is forcing me to progress my guardian to higher fractals so i dont have to worry about being a hindrance.

Added “downed” to thread title

This brings to mind something…if they plan on keeping the downed state HP the same as it is currently, could they make it so we can activate Death Shroud while downed?

After reading this WvWvW is just annoying. If I get downed I have no shot of being rezed in group fights. I dont ever get stomped as a necro either, its so much faster to kill.

I didn’t even realise this bug existed tbh! For me the issue is interrupting stompers (against whom it doesn’t matter how much health you have left): we have the weakest downed state interrupts of any class in the game.

I wouldn’t say the weakest, Engineer, warrior and ranger are in the same boat as us, a single target “CC” that doesn’t affect people with stability. Guardian have it AoE, but Stability still wont stop them from stomping. Ele, thief and mesmer are in top, just because they can target drop the stomper, so they can evade Tiny Stomp, Mist stomp, Stealth stomp and any Stability stomp all together.

Our death nova should act as a Well of corruption, no more stability stomp for you sir!

I got some movies going, and I’ll try to show how dying before been able to even cast #2 sometimes is not helping my group, while on my other professions a single killshot will only remove a small chunk of my downed health and I’ll still be able to be rezzed.

We just got an answer form a moderator in WvW forum that they are looking into it.

Looks good!

@Panh

I would say Engineer and necromancer have the worse. Engineer being in the bottom.

Warrior in team fight are really strong, because they usually can stay downed long enought and use vengeance. And this is a really strong skill. They can also win any 1vs1 if both are downed.

Ranger have it better then people expect. They can use their pet in downed state. So they can have 2 interrupt in a row, and they have the added DPS. Really strong if they are a BM ranger, and if they have the 5 second swiftness when downed.

Ranger base down state isn’t good at all. Sure you can argue that using a very specific trait build it is better, but then Necro downed with 50% siphoning, extra damage, and a terror build is strong too. But that wasn’t the point, their base down state, without a very specific trait build and pets, isn’t good at all.

@Bhawb

You don’t need to use any trait to have another stun.

You also win most 1on1 fight in downed state.

Ranger isn’t top tier downed state, but it’s better then engineer and necro by a margin.

Dog fear for 2 second? If you ask me that’s really useful

Kardiamond.6952:

@Bhawb

You don’t need to use any trait to have another stun.

You also win most 1on1 fight in downed state.

Ranger isn’t top tier downed state, but it’s better then engineer and necro by a margin.

Dog fear for 2 second? If you ask me that’s really useful

Dog fear requires you to bring a dog, hence a specific loadout, not what is base to their downed state.

So shall I say they have a lot more option then us to be effective?

And their targetted AoE daze is better then our fear. And their number 3 too.

Back on topic please guys. Ranger definately has a better downed state than the bugged necro downed state.

flow.6043:

I paid a little more attention to my downed sate in wvw because of this thread.

I was downed at the same time as a thief. We both just auto attacked each other.
Before the thief got back up he was still at about 50% hp, the whole thing was over before fetid ground was even ready to use.
My normal hp pool is 26k btw.

So today I terror-feared a guardian down immediately after going down myself.
This time everything worked properly, I managed to rally ~1 millisecond before the guardian (I didn’t use death’s embrace). The whole thing lasted so long that my fetid ground was almost ready a second time.
Apparently sometimes it bugs and sometimes is doesn’t…?

flow.6043:

flow.6043:

I paid a little more attention to my downed sate in wvw because of this thread.

I was downed at the same time as a thief. We both just auto attacked each other.
Before the thief got back up he was still at about 50% hp, the whole thing was over before fetid ground was even ready to use.
My normal hp pool is 26k btw.

So today I terror-feared a guardian down immediately after going down myself.
This time everything worked properly, I managed to rally ~1 millisecond before the guardian (I didn’t use death’s embrace). The whole thing lasted so long that my fetid ground was almost ready a second time.
Apparently sometimes it bugs and sometimes is doesn’t…?

Honestly, “I won/lost this fight” is a poor way to judge. Just watch the red numbers that correspond to your degen, if possible. Multiply that number by 30 (iirc) and that’s your downed state health pool. Then get downed on any other character with a similar standing health pool and check the degen. Multiply by 30, compare the downed / standing pools between both professions.

Softspoken.2410:

flow.6043:

flow.6043:

I paid a little more attention to my downed sate in wvw because of this thread.

I was downed at the same time as a thief. We both just auto attacked each other.
Before the thief got back up he was still at about 50% hp, the whole thing was over before fetid ground was even ready to use.
My normal hp pool is 26k btw.

So today I terror-feared a guardian down immediately after going down myself.
This time everything worked properly, I managed to rally ~1 millisecond before the guardian (I didn’t use death’s embrace). The whole thing lasted so long that my fetid ground was almost ready a second time.
Apparently sometimes it bugs and sometimes is doesn’t…?

Honestly, “I won/lost this fight” is a poor way to judge. Just watch the red numbers that correspond to your degen, if possible. Multiply that number by 30 (iirc) and that’s your downed state health pool. Then get downed on any other character with a similar standing health pool and check the degen. Multiply by 30, compare the downed / standing pools between both professions.

This example was not about winning or losing a fight. Both examples should demonstrate how fast my downed hp was drained by someone who went down at the same time.
Even if the guardian killed me first, it was obvious this time that my hp wasn’t reduced to 30%, while it certaily was against the thief.
My point is: this hp bug doesn’t always occur.