Guild Wars 2

flow.6043:

Softspoken.2410:

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flow.6043:

I paid a little more attention to my downed sate in wvw because of this thread.

I was downed at the same time as a thief. We both just auto attacked each other.
Before the thief got back up he was still at about 50% hp, the whole thing was over before fetid ground was even ready to use.
My normal hp pool is 26k btw.

So today I terror-feared a guardian down immediately after going down myself.
This time everything worked properly, I managed to rally ~1 millisecond before the guardian (I didn’t use death’s embrace). The whole thing lasted so long that my fetid ground was almost ready a second time.
Apparently sometimes it bugs and sometimes is doesn’t…?

Honestly, “I won/lost this fight” is a poor way to judge. Just watch the red numbers that correspond to your degen, if possible. Multiply that number by 30 (iirc) and that’s your downed state health pool. Then get downed on any other character with a similar standing health pool and check the degen. Multiply by 30, compare the downed / standing pools between both professions.

This example was not about winning or losing a fight. Both examples should demonstrate how fast my downed hp was drained by someone who went down at the same time.
Even if the guardian killed me first, it was obvious this time that my hp wasn’t reduced to 30%, while it certaily was against the thief.
My point is: this hp bug doesn’t always occur.

Except that how fast your downed health is drained by an opponent is based on far more than just how much health you have. It’s very possible, (in fact, even probable) that the thief had strictly higher damage than the guardian, while the guardian would have had strictly higher defensive statistics. The first one causes a downed vs downed battle to end quickly and decisively, while the second would draw it out by both taking longer to kill and be killed, changing whether the recharge for fetid ground manages to clear once or even twice. And none of this implies anything about the size of your health pool.

flow.6043:

Softspoken.2410:

flow.6043:

flow.6043:

I paid a little more attention to my downed sate in wvw because of this thread.

I was downed at the same time as a thief. We both just auto attacked each other.
Before the thief got back up he was still at about 50% hp, the whole thing was over before fetid ground was even ready to use.
My normal hp pool is 26k btw.

So today I terror-feared a guardian down immediately after going down myself.
This time everything worked properly, I managed to rally ~1 millisecond before the guardian (I didn’t use death’s embrace). The whole thing lasted so long that my fetid ground was almost ready a second time.
Apparently sometimes it bugs and sometimes is doesn’t…?

Honestly, “I won/lost this fight” is a poor way to judge. Just watch the red numbers that correspond to your degen, if possible. Multiply that number by 30 (iirc) and that’s your downed state health pool. Then get downed on any other character with a similar standing health pool and check the degen. Multiply by 30, compare the downed / standing pools between both professions.

This example was not about winning or losing a fight. Both examples should demonstrate how fast my downed hp was drained by someone who went down at the same time.
Even if the guardian killed me first, it was obvious this time that my hp wasn’t reduced to 30%, while it certaily was against the thief.
My point is: this hp bug doesn’t always occur.

No even in the bugged down state a necro beats guardian 1v1 downed lol. The life leech heals for more than the guardians puny first skill. I assume you are talking about WvW anyway. In sPvP the necro doesnt have the issue.

Sorry but Rangers have an aoe interrupt for skill 2. And while warriors and engineers also have a single-target interrupt for skill 2 they have much more powerful slot 3 skills. Fetid Ground is great for downed state vs downed state fighhts but won’t save you against stompers, whereas warrior’s and engineer’s slot 3 skills will.

Anyway, I’ll shut up now cause this is a bug discussion and I’m derailing the thread

Softspoken.2410:

flow.6043:

flow.6043:

I paid a little more attention to my downed sate in wvw because of this thread.

I was downed at the same time as a thief. We both just auto attacked each other.
Before the thief got back up he was still at about 50% hp, the whole thing was over before fetid ground was even ready to use.
My normal hp pool is 26k btw.

So today I terror-feared a guardian down immediately after going down myself.
This time everything worked properly, I managed to rally ~1 millisecond before the guardian (I didn’t use death’s embrace). The whole thing lasted so long that my fetid ground was almost ready a second time.
Apparently sometimes it bugs and sometimes is doesn’t…?

Honestly, “I won/lost this fight” is a poor way to judge. Just watch the red numbers that correspond to your degen, if possible. Multiply that number by 30 (iirc) and that’s your downed state health pool. Then get downed on any other character with a similar standing health pool and check the degen. Multiply by 30, compare the downed / standing pools between both professions.

Technically you start at 75% downed health pool, and it takes roughly 30 downed ticks to kill that. While full downed health pool is largely irrelevant, it would take roughly 40 ticks to kill that.

E: 2th downed is 50% and 3th downed is 25%. 4th downed is 0% which means no downed at all

Targuil.3741:

Softspoken.2410:

Just watch the red numbers that correspond to your degen, if possible. Multiply that number by 30 (iirc) and that’s your downed state health pool. Then get downed on any other character with a similar standing health pool and check the degen. Multiply by 30, compare the downed / standing pools between both professions.

Technically you start at 75% downed health pool, and it takes roughly 30 downed ticks to kill that. While full downed health pool is largely irrelevant, it would take roughly 40 ticks to kill that.

E: 2th downed is 50% and 3th downed is 25%. 4th downed is 0% which means no downed at all

Ah, thanks! I wasn’t certain of the exact number of ticks to a full health pool, and just went with 30. So it’s actually 40 ticks to your downed health pool, and you just start from 75% health, so you have 30 ticks before you bleed out. (Barring damage / bandage and such)

Dear gahwd, please fix this! Do you know how many times I have survived long enough in a downed state to even use Fetid Ground? I think it has been twice in 200+ hours of PVE play.

This is a terrible bug, and if it isn’t a bug then please revisit this. If my Necro goes into a downed state in PVE or WvW it’s basically insta-death.

Just making sure this stays visible. Anet, please let us know your position on this.

GJ ANET,
patch is here but no fix for this gamebreking bug, maybe you can start to do something

Anyone can test it? Maybe it’s been stealth fixed…

As soon as I’m back from job, I’ll go test it in WvW.

Tristan.7430:

GJ ANET,
patch is here but no fix for this gamebreking bug, maybe you can start to do something

Because you know for sure that this is just a bug where they wave a magic wand and BOOM everything is fixed. It isn’t always just so easy to fix things that appear to be easy issues within coding.

Just tested it: Bug still exists.
My Necro’s downed HP tick for about a third of my warrior’s ticks at roughly the same base HP → Necro has 1/3 downed HP

Bhawb.7408:

Tristan.7430:

GJ ANET,
patch is here but no fix for this gamebreking bug, maybe you can start to do something

Because you know for sure that this is just a bug where they wave a magic wand and BOOM everything is fixed. It isn’t always just so easy to fix things that appear to be easy issues within coding.

At least they can try communicate and this bug doesnt affect sPvP so fix should be easy

I would certainly appreciate a dev response. We were able to get a moderator response in the WvW forum, but that isn’t quite the same as a dev saying, “Hey we know this bug exists!”

Bhawb.7408:

Tristan.7430:

GJ ANET,
patch is here but no fix for this gamebreking bug, maybe you can start to do something

Because you know for sure that this is just a bug where they wave a magic wand and BOOM everything is fixed. It isn’t always just so easy to fix things that appear to be easy issues within coding.

Are you always again everything? I don’t remember the last time I saw you agree with someone on something.

Funny thing is, this bug have been posted on the forum like 1 month ago, is 1 month too much for the dev team? You would need a major bug to require more then 1 month to debug.

My guess? They didn’t know about it until 1 week ago when I posted it on WvW. They might still don’t know about it.

If you accept such a delay for a game breaking bug, good for you. But I don’t.

Not like it effect you anyway, you are a tPvp players only.

I agree with people often enough, no one remembers because that isn’t how the human brain works.

As for the bug, this assumes that it is the only bug that they have to deal with. Maybe it isn’t a priority for them, maybe it is more complex (and thus gets lower priority because it takes too long), maybe they didn’t know about it until recently. Its like how most conspiracy theories are invented by idiots who know nothing about the subject. It happens all the time, people who don’t understand the actual workings of something are always the one to talk about how easy it is to fix it, and then blame others for not fixing it. Like how people blame the President for not passing laws.

Uh, no, I have far more time on WvW or PvE than tPvP. I talk about tPvP the most because I like it, but I’ve done far more in WvW than I have in tournaments.

Kardiamond.6952:

My guess? They didn’t know about it until 1 week ago when I posted it on WvW. They might still don’t know about it.

I’m actually willing to bet that they’ve known about it the entire time; I seem to vaguely recall that at one point, Deathshroud was essentially our “downed” ability. This 33% Downed HP in comparison to other Professions was probably a by-product that was left when they made the swap to Deathshroud being our Profession mechanic.

End product is rushed, this is the result.

Bhawb.7408:

I agree with people often enough, no one remembers because that isn’t how the human brain works.

As for the bug, this assumes that it is the only bug that they have to deal with. Maybe it isn’t a priority for them, maybe it is more complex (and thus gets lower priority because it takes too long), maybe they didn’t know about it until recently. Its like how most conspiracy theories are invented by idiots who know nothing about the subject. It happens all the time, people who don’t understand the actual workings of something are always the one to talk about how easy it is to fix it, and then blame others for not fixing it. Like how people blame the President for not passing laws.

Uh, no, I have far more time on WvW or PvE than tPvP. I talk about tPvP the most because I like it, but I’ve done far more in WvW than I have in tournaments.

Are you indirectly calling me an idiot?

I might not know how they code, or how they are working.

Should it be a reason to accept everything?

Accept that Pet AI have been bugged forever?
Accept that we have 1/3 the downed state HP of everyone around in WvW/PvE?

In your opinion, we should just stay quiet and wait for when ever they have the time to do it. You know what happen when you stop talking about a bug? They don’t get resolved.They didn’t even give us an official answer yet other then the unamed moderator.

“Maybe it isn’t a priority for them”

That would also be an issue.

“I agree with people often enough, no one remembers because that isn’t how the human brain works.”

that’s an assumption. You could also re-read all your lasts replies. But hey, what do I know.

This is just laughable, ridiculously laughable.

Kardiamond.6952:

Are you indirectly calling me an idiot?

I might not know how they code, or how they are working.

Should it be a reason to accept everything?

Accept that Pet AI have been bugged forever?
Accept that we have 1/3 the downed state HP of everyone around in WvW/PvE?

In your opinion, we should just stay quiet and wait for when ever they have the time to do it. You know what happen when you stop talking about a bug? They don’t get resolved.They didn’t even give us an official answer yet other then the unamed moderator.

“Maybe it isn’t a priority for them”

That would also be an issue.

“I agree with people often enough, no one remembers because that isn’t how the human brain works.”

that’s an assumption. You could also re-read all your lasts replies. But hey, what do I know.

I honestly had no intention of calling you an idiot, I apologize if it came out that way. I was just referencing conspiracy theories (I mean come on, have you heard how idiotic some of them are? For example the 9/11 ones are bafflingly stupid.) with respect to people who don’t understand how something works not being able to make accurate thoughts about reality. 9/11 is a great example, to people who understand nothing about Physics (or engineering), it totally made sense that a fire that wasn’t hot enough to melt the steel shouldn’t cause the tower to fall. However to anyone with a remote clue to engineering and physics that theory was so stupid it actually makes your head hurt a little.

I agree it still needs to be brought up, and that all new bugs need to be addressed. I don’t agree that you need to belittle ANet at every opportunity because they aren’t fast enough for your tastes, that isn’t a good way to get your point across.

It not being priority being an issue is your opinion. We don’t know what all they are trying to accomplish, and depending on difficulty of the fix, it might just not be top priority.

And not really. Humans are amazingly good at remembering the bad and forgetting the good. If you don’t want to believe me go ahead.

And exactly what is wrong with remembering the bad things? It is how we develop survival skills.

The fact that people bring up faults rather than things going well is because we expect things to go well…we paid for it after all.

That we talk about the things going wrong is not an issue and it shouldn’t detract from the issues themselves. This is just a red herring and the issues remain. To dismiss issues on the basis of some anecdotal generalisation about human nature only fuels the continued neglect of our issues by the devs.

Again, it had nothing to do with the fact he was bringing up faults, I’m completely fine with that. I disagree with doing it by flaming devs.

The human nature thing was in response to him saying I always disagree. People will always remember bad events more than good, meaning he is only ever going to remember the times I disagree, because in his mind that is all I do. His mind is going to block out any evidence that suggests I do agree (this is a documented fact that people will always accept information that agrees with preconceived ideas, and at least initially reject anything that disagrees). Had nothing to do with bringing up bugs.

Exactly…..why is it an issue here? Why was it even raised if not to diminish or cloud the arguement? It has nothing to do with the post about the downed state health. As I mentioned above we DO NOT need to give the devs ready made excuses to ignore issues or cloud those issues with extraneous “noise”. Similarly with issues about unkown priorities. WE are not privy to those priorities so we have to bring issues to notice when we can…we have no alternative as we have not the information to prioritise them ourselves.

I can understand the need to make posts meaningful yet respectful and I really do appreciate the effort made to “clean up” the “noise” but care is needed that in doing so we don’t fall foul of the very same characteristics we are seeking to mollify.

@Bhawb

I think it’s a priority, a huge one for balance. Mesmer had a bug some time ago with their phantasm. Dev got on the forum, spoke with the communty and did a step-by-step debug with them. They then delivered a patch next day.

Yet Necro having a lot less HP then everyone else in downed state doesn’t even deserve an answer.

I spectated a little bit in Jonathan Sharp’s custom arena yesterday. He was playing a necromancer. I hope he read map chat and realized what I meant when he went down and I said “John, enjoy your full hp in necro spvp downed state!”

I know everyone is saying this is not a s/tpv kitten ue but since yesterday I have been dying very fast in downed state in s/tpvp. Numerous times I had over half health and then bam was just dead with nobody visibly near me and with no floating dmg text or dmg in the combat log having killed me. Initially I thought it was a thief stealth stomping me (which is lame in itself) but it was happening a bit much to be that. It may be nothing to do with the 1/3 hp bug it just seems different than before. On a side note stomp needs a look as to its range vertically. Im pretty sure I got stomped in Spiritwatch yesterday from someone WAY above me on one of the stone pillars while I was on the ground far below. Saw him up there doing the stomp animation and everything.

Bump for great justice

Guenselmann.9637:

Bump for great justice

Warrior forums are that way. ?

Maybe its a leftover bit of code from when we went to shroud on death (since hp are less in shroud), I’d look there.

Deathshroud been 60%ish of our Health Pool, it would be the closest possible scenario for a bug. However, as it’s working fine in PVP (well PvE and PvP teams must be different though), a little light or head’s up from Anet would stop all this confusion.

I’m really hoping that the next patch will fix this bug. For now I’m playing other professions in WvW/Fractals just because I’m a liability if I go down.

Erm im pretty sure several months ago we didnt have this issue. So its nothing to do with when they changed DS to be our class mechanic. Its obviously a bug that occured in one of the major patches. Missing a number in the formula probably.

bumpity

This explains a lot, I had never noticed because I almost always play my necro…

After playing around on my new Mesmer, I now realised how fast my Necromancer die in downed state compared to another classes. Hopefully this is addressed soon. Since this hasn’t been fixed for over half a year, even some response just to acknowledging its existence from the devs would help.

I hate to change the subject for being rude, but regardless of what the devs or frequent forum posters may intend, do many people here take issue with the performance of the downed state on Necros?
It seemed to be working terrifically for me although I didn’t really run the numbers on it so much as just compare it to how I felt playing it versus my experience with the downed states of other classes. I suppose starting with a higher vitality and then being able to heal yourself with more than just bandage probably obscures the size of the hp, to say nothing of my personal build choice having healing power and terror. Definitely, compared to my ranger’s sometimes roulette skill Chance for extra healing or my thief’s tiny hp my necro seems less frustrating to me while downed.

ArtC.1827:

I hate to change the subject for being rude, but regardless of what the devs or frequent forum posters may intend, do many people here take issue with the performance of the downed state on Necros?
It seemed to be working terrifically for me although I didn’t really run the numbers on it so much as just compare it to how I felt playing it versus my experience with the downed states of other classes. I suppose starting with a higher vitality and then being able to heal yourself with more than just bandage probably obscures the size of the hp, to say nothing of my personal build choice having healing power and terror. Definitely, compared to my ranger’s sometimes roulette skill Chance for extra healing or my thief’s tiny hp my necro seems less frustrating to me while downed.

Sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn’t.

In terms of PvE, if I’m up against something that’s not great at doing damage, I can stall for a rather long amount of time. If it’s something that is just going to keep chewing my face or plant AoEs on me, I’m ruined. Overall I feel like it’s just okay: in my mind, downed state is for finishing off those fights that you Should Have Won but got dropped right before you finished off your opponent.

If you’re running Terror or Bloodthirst, you do have a pretty significant advantage on the ground though, I’ll admit.

Overall, its something I rarely notice. PvE I just don’t go down often (I mean come on, its PvE guys), and when you do Downed 1 healing is really good. WvW I rarely notice it either, since I play in the back, so if I’m going down its because the zerg was broken; in which case I’m dead anyway.

I still hope they address this, but at the very least I don’t personally find it game breaking. I’d bet that someone who plays as a closer range build might see it as more of an issue though.

It’s unfortunately pretty gamebreaking IMO, when I log on my necro and ask for my small team in WvW to not even try to rez me and just go on. Sometimes they still try, and one Killshot or 2 thiefs auto attack chains kills me outright. And we pretty much do the same to every necro we encounter, and I do a small prayer after we just destroyed him in downed state with not even a chance to use a skill.

I don’t know why peoples would try to belittle this problem. When I go down with other professions against small groups, I can survive long enough for my team to help or even for me to down/kill the other one instead. Never on my necro, except against a healing spec where the Downed damage is of no consequence.

Down state is a part of the game, and should be on equal footing for all professions.

I’m not asking to survive against a zerg spamming their attack on me, but when you have 20k instead of 60k, a breeze kills you and you become once again a liability in your team.

And for PvE, just try high level Fractals. When down means dead outright, no one wants a necro in their party. (Yes peoples get downed in PvE, believe it or not!!! I’ll try to post screenshots )

I agree to what Panhauramix said.

I’m mainly doing fractals and other dungeons to gear up my characters at the moment. When you raise in fractal level, you will notice this bug become more and more gamebreaking. The grawl shaman is a good example. When he spawns his minions and you go down (for whatever reason) you are most likely going to die if your mates don’t revive you immediately or no mob dies quickly.
Why take such a class into your party? I mean, we don’t have anything overpowered to compensate. Fortunately not many people seem to know this bug because you are generally accepted in a group.

This is worthy of a hotfix. The only reasonable inference to make is that there is no team lead for necromancers and nobody is paying attention to us outside of sPvP.

Execrable.1064:

This is worthy of a hotfix. The only reasonable inference to make is that there is no team lead for necromancers and nobody is paying attention to us outside of sPvP.

Obviously. There is no way that it might be a complex issue they aren’t sure how to fix yet, that would be ridiculous. Because its not like Necros haven’t had some of the most bug fixes since launch right?

Acknowledgement or disavowal of the bug at least should be warranted. I understand being supportive of the game, but I can’t understand how you can defend the wall of silence we’ve gotten on this issue for what, a month? I don’t care if it’s so complex they would have to hire a team of expert coders to figure it out, just a word about the status of this would be much appreciated. I don’t understand how you defend this issue, Bhawb.

Execrable.1064:

Acknowledgement or disavowal of the bug at least should be warranted. I understand being supportive of the game, but I can’t understand how you can defend the wall of silence we’ve gotten on this issue for what, a month? I don’t care if it’s so complex they would have to hire a team of expert coders to figure it out, just a word about the status of this would be much appreciated. I don’t understand how you defend this issue, Bhawb.

I’m not, I agree they need to fix it. Coming on here to belittle the very people you want to fix a bug is absolutely idiotic, however, and my posts here have mainly been aimed at that. If you want to defend people who are outright attacking the very people you need to fix this issue, feel free.

And bugs don’t get personal notes that they will be fixed with kissey faces on them hand delivered by a dev. They don’t do it on the vast majority of bugs, they haven’t felt it necessary to do it here; if they did start posting in response to bugs, it sets a precedent, one that means they will now be expected to post in every single bug post. Why people seem to feel every bug they find is worthy of a dev response is beyond me (especially when they rarely do respond), but if you seriously think the devs haven’t noticed this issue by now I can’t help you.

I’m not belittling anyone. I’m conveying my complete bafflement at the lack of redressment of this problem. I made no ad hominems, I didn’t call anyone an idiot, as you called me, or my actions, in your post preceding mine. I’m confused and annoyed at why this significant bug gets apparently ignored.

Also I understand the second paragraph of your post. However, significant bugs for other classes HAVE gotten posts from developers. Ours (this at least, and it’s really the nastiest bug I’ve seen recently for necros) have not. I’ve died at least three times today because of this bug. It’s annoying and it’s not fair that we don’t get the same attention that some other classes seem to.

Execrable.1064:

I’m not belittling anyone. I’m conveying my complete bafflement at the lack of redressment of this problem. I made no ad hominems, I didn’t call anyone an idiot, as you called me, or my actions, in your post preceding mine. I’m confused and annoyed at why this significant bug gets apparently ignored.

Nor did I call you an idiot. I said the people belittling the devs are making idiotic statements. If you did no such thing, then it follows that you made no idiotic statements.

The devs almost never post in response to bugs. In many many months, we’ve had 2 red posts, one saying they read the forums, the other addressing a component of a change they wanted to revert. There is absolutely no precedent on which to base a reasonable expectation for a dev post.

I would rather just die than have a broken downstate. Get back into the fight faster.

No precedent? There are, in fact, posts from devs about class bugs. There certainly are precedents. Here’s one:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Bugs-and-Issues-Compilation/first#post115096

This is in reply to a thief bug summary thread and he even mentions a specific bug. There are others, but I’m not going to search them all out to prove my point.

My next WvW movie (coming soon) will have a small special ending of multiple near instant death scenario where I’m against max 3 peoples, while one tries to stomp the 2 others (or even just one attacker sometimes) finishes me off before I get stomped. And this is all in only one evening of recording. In this same video I do win a downed duel against a ranger, but I was in my home in the Archway near Lowland so the pet couldn’t get to him to heal.

Hope this special ending can show more peoples the problem we have to deal with.

Execrable.1064:

No precedent? There are, in fact, posts from devs about class bugs. There certainly are precedents. Here’s one:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Bugs-and-Issues-Compilation/first#post115096

This is in reply to a thief bug summary thread and he even mentions a specific bug. There are others, but I’m not going to search them all out to prove my point.

That isn’t the Necro forum. Each forum sees different amount of dev action, and ours is on the low end of it, in our forum there is no precedent.

@Bhawb

They replied to our minion AI bug once like 4 month ago. Asking for most test.

And I think most people are asking for exatly this : more interaction.

You might not see this as a big deal yourself. Good for you. But for people like me that do small group roaming, or for PVE players, it’s a terrible unbalance. Especially when I use my power build and I hit like a truck when downed.

The mesmer had instant answer when their phantasm got bugged, engineer got reply when one trait would not use the buffed turret ect..

Why would necro be any different?

The only precedent we have is about the Minion AI(or pathing for you). And I feel like this downed bug is worse then the Pet AI. Well both are major bugs for me.

Trying to keep this issue illuminated. I end up dying several times every day once I’m downed when otherwise I’d have a chance at getting up (I play in small wvw fights mostly). It’s beyond where I’m frustrated mostly to where I live with it. Still not happy about it, though.