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Posted by: ZudetGambeous.9573

ZudetGambeous.9573

putrid explosion- blockable now ( because realism, doesn’t make sense for it to be blockable)

Training of the Master- reduced from 30% to 25%

Duuhmfire- “not skillful”, actively control when it procs, unsplit between PvP and PvE, lifeblast and deathshround apply burning for 3 seconds with 10s CD.

Vampire master being reduced an unknown amount cause it was OP.

(edited by ZudetGambeous.9573)

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Posted by: Bhawb.7408

Bhawb.7408

Where is the preview for this? Just on twitch?

But of Corpse – Watch us on YouTube
My PvP Minion Build

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Posted by: ronpierce.2760

ronpierce.2760

Yeah, we just got kittened in the face while they “shaved” warriors, they punched us in the kitten.

High Warlord Sikari (80 Reaper) / Lord Siekron (80 DH)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)

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Posted by: Fungalfoot.7213

Fungalfoot.7213

This is what happens when you balance your game based on metrics instead of common sense. The necromancer class just isn’t popular enough to get the silk glove treatment.

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Posted by: urieldhynne.2743

urieldhynne.2743

Idc about the proc only in DS, but 3s from 5s is like 40% nerf in damage.

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Posted by: Yamedo.2561

Yamedo.2561

I give up on life.

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Posted by: Dalanor.5387

Dalanor.5387

Idc about the proc only in DS, but 3s from 5s is like 40% nerf in damage.

Dhuumfire was 4s and got nerfed soon to 2s in pvp.

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Posted by: Roe.3679

Roe.3679

Idc about the proc only in DS, but 3s from 5s is like 40% nerf in damage.

Per application, yes, but now you can spam this and get tons of burning. With vital persistence you can actually have bigger stacks of burning, although it would happen less often.

I’m not sure it’s worth sledding into over foot in the grave, though.

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Posted by: Arvid.3829

Arvid.3829

Idc about the proc only in DS, but 3s from 5s is like 40% nerf in damage.

Per application, yes, but now you can spam this and get tons of burning. With vital persistence you can actually have bigger stacks of burning, although it would happen less often.

I’m not sure it’s worth sledding into over foot in the grave, though.

With a 10 sec ICD? Good luck with that…

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Posted by: Bhawb.7408

Bhawb.7408

The ICD will make it so it can’t stack, but in PvE especially it will not be difficult to get it to proc multiple times if you want.

But of Corpse – Watch us on YouTube
My PvP Minion Build

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Posted by: Glenn.3417

Glenn.3417

And to add injury to insult crit dmg get’s gutted so all power builds for wvw roaming get another kick in the nads.

All reroll warrior, they clearly do more dmg power wise and cond wise than us. -_-

Champion Phantom – Legionnaire – Genius – Magus

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Posted by: Roe.3679

Roe.3679

Idc about the proc only in DS, but 3s from 5s is like 40% nerf in damage.

Per application, yes, but now you can spam this and get tons of burning. With vital persistence you can actually have bigger stacks of burning, although it would happen less often.

I’m not sure it’s worth sledding into over foot in the grave, though.

With a 10 sec ICD? Good luck with that…

Does it still have an ICD? If so I don’t know why you would ever take that trait, it’s not worthy of GM status if that’s the case.

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Posted by: Rennoko.5731

Rennoko.5731

Alternatively I would have like a 2 to 3 second aoe burn in a decent radius on leaving ds.

And people will take it because 30 percent duration and the trait itself are still good, not really gm level in my opinion, but still good

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Posted by: Bhawb.7408

Bhawb.7408

Does it still have an ICD? If so I don’t know why you would ever take that trait, it’s not worthy of GM status if that’s the case.

It is literally the exact same “OP” Dhuumfire that everyone has been complaining about, except now you proc it with Life Blast, instead of a random crit.

It is essentially a 4s base burning because of its place in the tree every time you go into DS, or every 10s while in DS. It’ll be good.

But of Corpse – Watch us on YouTube
My PvP Minion Build

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Posted by: Sandra Martino.3870

Sandra Martino.3870

I dont know what to say, patch after patch balance gets more out of hand. Is it really necessarily to have a monthly subscription fee to play a game that is moderately balanced? Look:

Putrid explosion buffed instead of nerfed by changing twice its damage or radius.
Training of the master buffed from 30% to 35%
Dhuumfire damage buffed with double its damage & vampiric precision DOUBLED would STILL MAKE NECROMANCERS UNDERPOWERED IN EVERY ASPECT IN THE GAME.

I must be from another planet, or the devs. But than again, every necro so far is not making constructive posts anymore and more or less turning cynical about it.

Well done.

Still Feeling Lucky [PunK] – Gunnars Hold
Recruiting necros & guardians. Whisper ingame.

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Posted by: Bhawb.7408

Bhawb.7408

I’m speechless except to say I’m glad you aren’t on the balance team.

But of Corpse – Watch us on YouTube
My PvP Minion Build

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Posted by: Arvid.3829

Arvid.3829

It is literally the exact same “OP” Dhuumfire that everyone has been complaining about, except now you proc it with Life Blast, instead of a random crit.

Not sure why you keep repeating that, as it simply isn’t true. The duration is 25% shorter (in PvE/WvW) and it can no longer trigger alongside your other skills, effectively lowering it’s damage potential by 50% or so…

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Posted by: Mindx.9610

Mindx.9610

Dhuumfire change is fine, its much more interesting this way. Putrid Explosion change is fine as well, but if they are currently looking into putrid explosion and bone minions in general please take into consideration cast time and actual summon animation.

Karl says on stream that theres no counter play but it takes the minions a ridiculous amount of time to actually be mobile! So much potential for counter play during these moments. They are also ridiculously slow to actually reach your target assuming you casted from range, again more potential for counter play I.E just ranging bone minions down before they get to you.

[Apex] – Zero Entity 80 Necromancer
Blackgate Apexprime.enjin.com

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Posted by: Bhawb.7408

Bhawb.7408

Sorry, the wiki is off (for some reason). Still, its a drop of 1s in PvE/WvW, and takes one second extra to apply and deal the damage.

But of Corpse – Watch us on YouTube
My PvP Minion Build

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Posted by: Avigrus.2871

Avigrus.2871

They had better fix the skill delay when exiting death shroud….

I have died so many times because of this…

I don’t see anyone except hybrid builds using the new Dumbfire… power builds have better options in that trait line and condition builds will probably change trait lines altogether.

I wonder if we’re going to get any of the bleeds back that they nerfed because of Dumbfire… we’ll probably get some more nerfs instead.

80 Necro (5), 80 Guard (4), 80 Mesmer (3)
80 Ranger (3), 80 Warrior (3), 80 Thief (3)
80 Ele (2), 80 Engi (3), 80 Rev (2)

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Posted by: PH Law.4063

PH Law.4063

well as a “grandmaster trait” dumbfire having tht strong presence is well deserved considering your dumping 30 traits on tht, yes admit it is too strong but now its going on death shroud to proc with a 10 sec ICD its more or less a master trait and less of a grandmaster trait…

Oh also i do hope the dev see that necros still lack the ability to get out of combat considering its either kill or be killed…no real way of escape i guess u can use spectral walk? but thts completely situational and the excuse of “necros have 2 hp bars” doesnt cut it because once ur locked down ur locked down regardless of how much “hp” you have…

(edited by PH Law.4063)

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Posted by: AivenPrimus.9184

AivenPrimus.9184

I wonder what will be next?
Enforcing specific traits to make us any ’’viable’’, while we still lack pressence in competive play?

They havent nerfed thiefs, they havent nerfed warriors…
‘’Well, we will be nerfing Necromancer utility … because of his double-lifepool’’
They havent even made any viable changes for DS … a half-baked proffesion ability…
because it start to seem like ‘’Lets just stuck all nerfed traits into DS, and it will be ok’’

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Posted by: Sarrs.4831

Sarrs.4831

Well, everything other than Dhuumfire got a flat nerf. Not sure what I think of that. I can understand removing the unblockable explosion and I don’t particularly care about the Training of the Master nerf because it’s not that big a shave to overall damage, but I’m not sure about the Vampiric Master nerf. Without numbers, it’s difficult to judge, but my hopes aren’t too high.

I think the Dumbfire change is an improvement, but it should probably still be pushed down to the Master trait. Hopefully this trait isn’t done yet.

It does somewhat feel like Necro got hit with the nerf bat the hardest. May just be a case of grass-is-greener.

Nalhadia – Kaineng

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Posted by: Teutos.8620

Teutos.8620

Training of the Master- reduced from 30% to 25%

I think this is only a drop of water on a hot stone. Personally I don’t think this is going in the right direction.

Suggestion:
Minions should scale with your attributes similar to the phantasms.

How would this effect the builds?
You can either build soldiers and go tanks with the result, that the minions will only deal a mediocre amount of damage, or you can go berserker, dealing a lot of damage through the minions but at the same time you can easily be killed.
You could also just build for condition damage, which means that you would deal a lot of damage yourself, but at the same time your minions would also only deal a mediocre amount of damage.

EU – Multiple times #1 SoloQ pre Dec 2014 (pure MMR based ladder)
Primoridal (S1) & Exalted (S2) & Illustrious (S3) Legend

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Posted by: Umut.5471

Umut.5471

If this burning on ds skill #1 is not requiring a trait waste, then it’s good. But if it requires to spend points on a trait, it’s just a garbage. Because condi builds don’t even use life blast so much at all. Plus 10s of icd for a subset skill is just wrong. They can make its burning 1s but without icd, this would make life blast useful for condi builds too. 1k dmg + 1 ticks of burning. It’s currently not as effective as power or dps builds on condi builds.

It’s also ridiculous when necros always get nerfed great amount, but op warriors’ healing signet only gets 8% nerf. Berserker stance(8-10s) endure pain durations stay the same. Isn’t it ridiculous ?

(edited by Umut.5471)

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Posted by: Lordrosicky.5813

Lordrosicky.5813

Training of the Master- reduced from 30% to 25%

I think this is only a drop of water on a hot stone. Personally I don’t think this is going in the right direction.

Suggestion:
Minions should scale with your attributes similar to the phantasms.

How would this effect the builds?
You can either build soldiers and go tanks with the result, that the minions will only deal a mediocre amount of damage, or you can go berserker, dealing a lot of damage through the minions but at the same time you can easily be killed.
You could also just build for condition damage, which means that you would deal a lot of damage yourself, but at the same time your minions would also only deal a mediocre amount of damage.

Minions do scale with your attributes already. If you run condi your minions do less damage

Character: Henry rank million/Duke Henry
Necromancer/Casual Warrior
[Team] Best WvW guild of all time. EASILY.

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Posted by: Lordrosicky.5813

Lordrosicky.5813

Does it still have an ICD? If so I don’t know why you would ever take that trait, it’s not worthy of GM status if that’s the case.

It is literally the exact same “OP” Dhuumfire that everyone has been complaining about, except now you proc it with Life Blast, instead of a random crit.

It is essentially a 4s base burning because of its place in the tree every time you go into DS, or every 10s while in DS. It’ll be good.

In pvp the issue is simple. You go into death shroud and start an obvious and LONG cast time to try and hit enemy. Firstly they have to stay in los to hit them. Secondly they can just dodge. They can stun you, they can burst you.

Odds are you will rarely hit the life blast on someone good. At which point you are just wasting life force and your sustain. You can chain it with doom, but then you cant chain other stuff and you are looking at only proccing burning every 20 seconds (maybe).

Also you need life force for this to even work.

Character: Henry rank million/Duke Henry
Necromancer/Casual Warrior
[Team] Best WvW guild of all time. EASILY.

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Posted by: dzeRnumbrd.6129

dzeRnumbrd.6129

So currently:

Dhuumfire: 3s burn on crit, every 10 seconds, grandmaster trait

Incendary Powder: 4s burn on crit, every 10 seconds, master trait

How is it that Dhuumfire is OP and needs a nerf while Incendary Powder is not OP and doesn’t need to be touched?

I have both a condi engineer and a condi necro but it seems like they are basing their nerfs on popular opinion.

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Posted by: Tim.6450

Tim.6450

I have both a condi engineer and a condi necro but it seems like they are basing their nerfs on popular opinion.

You realise it only now?

EverythingOP

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Posted by: djooceboxblast.9876

djooceboxblast.9876

The change is great! We just got a better trait and even better when combined with a hybrid build. Im happy!

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Posted by: ArmageddonAsh.6430

ArmageddonAsh.6430

In pvp the issue is simple. You go into death shroud and start an obvious and LONG cast time to try and hit enemy. Firstly they have to stay in los to hit them. Secondly they can just dodge. They can stun you, they can burst you.

Odds are you will rarely hit the life blast on someone good. At which point you are just wasting life force and your sustain. You can chain it with doom, but then you cant chain other stuff and you are looking at only proccing burning every 20 seconds (maybe).

Also you need life force for this to even work.

I run a PowerDS build and have NO issue with Life Blast, i use it in around 500range anyway so that it deals more power. Even with this change, i still wouldn’t take Dhuumfire Close to Death is a MUCH better option for me 20% extra damage to every skill while targets are under 50% is better than like 1,300 damage every 10 seconds that can be removed.

What could have been interesting, though would take work on seevral of the weapons. Replace Dhuumfire with a trait that would mean Life Blasts inflict the condition your Auto attack has…

Axe = Vul
Scepter = Bleeding
Dagger = Poison*
Staff = Torment*

The changes would need to possibly see slight adjustments to the auto attacks of Dagger and Staff to accommodate the new conditions. The conditions inflicted with Life Blast would have the same duration as the Auto Attack counter parts.

So Vul would be 2 stacks for 9 seconds, Bleeding would be 1 stack 5 1/4 seconds. Poison i would say about 5seconds would be about right and Torment would be 1 stack 4 seconds duration

What do you guys think?
This i think would be a reasonable trait could tweak and adjust it to make it Grand Master worthy.

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Posted by: Umut.5471

Umut.5471

So currently:

Dhuumfire: 3s burn on crit, every 10 seconds, grandmaster trait

Incendary Powder: 4s burn on crit, every 10 seconds, master trait

How is it that Dhuumfire is OP and needs a nerf while Incendary Powder is not OP and doesn’t need to be touched?

I have both a condi engineer and a condi necro but it seems like they are basing their nerfs on popular opinion.

I agree, my secondary is engineer and I can have better variant of dhuumfire in master trait(incendinary powder), with 7s of burning in spvp. I don’t miss ds because I have elixir s which absorbs all the damage like ds.(sometimes even better, because it doesn’t overflow)
Popular opinions you mean is, looking other classes through warrior’s eyes. Because warrior has the most players and is the most popular class, mostly their opinions apply for balance patches.
Necro was a great counter for this class, and warriors started QQ’ing, now they say “don’t QQ” when we criticize their op 10s berserker stance and other op abilities like hp regen, cc spam.

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Posted by: dace.8019

dace.8019

Hard to be constructive when you’re so disappointed.

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Posted by: AivenPrimus.9184

AivenPrimus.9184

It is a true fact, that in every MMO based game there are Devs – ’’Favorite’’ Class,hero,champion and least favorite…

I wouldnt be even suprised after 2nd year Statistics, Necro being least player profession…like…8% or smth
Since they already had only 12% and arent that far from last two:
Engeneer with 10%, and
Mesmer with 10%

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Posted by: Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046

Hard to be constructive when you’re so disappointed.

we feel you man..
here is a picture to cheer you up

Attachments:

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E.A.D.

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Posted by: Blood Red Arachnid.2493

Blood Red Arachnid.2493

Though this update doesn’t affect my builds (I run carrion and LP quite often with it), I can see how this is an overall nerf to the burning duration.

By virtue of being in DS, on top of the 10 second recharge that comes built into the trait, there are additional recharge limits placed on the skill:

The longer you stay in DS, the longer it takes for the Dhuumfire to proc again. DS only enters into a cooldown once you leave it, so the actual recharge is going to be based on how long it takes you to drop from DS after a lifeblast + DS’s recharge time from there.

Second, once the cooldown is done, you still have to go through the whole chain of entering DS → CC the enemy → use life blast, which takes longer than one would expect. So overall, I’d say the true cooldown for dhuumfire is around 14 to 15 seconds. So much for reverting its duration.

I don’t have opinions. I only have facts I can’t adequately prove.

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Posted by: Roe.3679

Roe.3679

Did they really say there would still be an ICD? I’m still not over that. I would have thought that if they made that change, that the ICD would be removed.

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Posted by: ArmageddonAsh.6430

ArmageddonAsh.6430

Did they really say there would still be an ICD? I’m still not over that. I would have thought that if they made that change, that the ICD would be removed.

Yeah that would never happen unless it was like a 10% chance to inflict Burning on Crit.

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Posted by: ArmageddonAsh.6430

ArmageddonAsh.6430

Though this update doesn’t affect my builds (I run carrion and LP quite often with it), I can see how this is an overall nerf to the burning duration.

By virtue of being in DS, on top of the 10 second recharge that comes built into the trait, there are additional recharge limits placed on the skill:

The longer you stay in DS, the longer it takes for the Dhuumfire to proc again. DS only enters into a cooldown once you leave it, so the actual recharge is going to be based on how long it takes you to drop from DS after a lifeblast + DS’s recharge time from there.

Second, once the cooldown is done, you still have to go through the whole chain of entering DS -> CC the enemy -> use life blast, which takes longer than one would expect. So overall, I’d say the true cooldown for dhuumfire is around 14 to 15 seconds. So much for reverting its duration.

You sure about that?
So it will only proc ONCE per a time you are in DeathShroud? If so, that is insanely stupid.

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Posted by: Bhawb.7408

Bhawb.7408

snip

As a long time MM player, no. The entire reason that MM builds even work at all is because stats don’t matter.

The only change they should do is introduce a mechanic in PvE/WvW that allows your minions to scale up to “ascended” level, because as it is now they are getting more and more left behind as Anet keeps scaling up the total amount of stats in the game.

But of Corpse – Watch us on YouTube
My PvP Minion Build

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Posted by: ZudetGambeous.9573

ZudetGambeous.9573

Though this update doesn’t affect my builds (I run carrion and LP quite often with it), I can see how this is an overall nerf to the burning duration.

By virtue of being in DS, on top of the 10 second recharge that comes built into the trait, there are additional recharge limits placed on the skill:

The longer you stay in DS, the longer it takes for the Dhuumfire to proc again. DS only enters into a cooldown once you leave it, so the actual recharge is going to be based on how long it takes you to drop from DS after a lifeblast + DS’s recharge time from there.

Second, once the cooldown is done, you still have to go through the whole chain of entering DS -> CC the enemy -> use life blast, which takes longer than one would expect. So overall, I’d say the true cooldown for dhuumfire is around 14 to 15 seconds. So much for reverting its duration.

You sure about that?
So it will only proc ONCE per a time you are in DeathShroud? If so, that is insanely stupid.

Yep, 10s ICD. Since DS has a 9s CD and life blast has a 1s cast you will need to immediate cast life blast and exit DS to be efficient. Of course if you are a condition build this means almost 3 seconds of unused time meaning you will actually be doing less damage in the time it takes to apply burning then you could have been doing with other bleed based attacks.

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Posted by: Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Drarnor Kunoram.5180

You sure about that?
So it will only proc ONCE per a time you are in DeathShroud? If so, that is insanely stupid.

It only can proc once every ten seconds. if you stay in Death Shroud for 10 seconds after firing Dhuumfire, you can shoot another Dhuumfire Life blast.

Dragonbrand |Drarnor Kunoram: Charr Necro
http://www.twitch.tv/reverse830
I’m a Geeleiver

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Posted by: Roe.3679

Roe.3679

You sure about that?
So it will only proc ONCE per a time you are in DeathShroud? If so, that is insanely stupid.

It only can proc once every ten seconds. if you stay in Death Shroud for 10 seconds after firing Dhuumfire, you can shoot another Dhuumfire Life blast.

And to be super, crazy, redundantly clear: they said that it would still have the ICD in the Ready Up?

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Posted by: Bhawb.7408

Bhawb.7408

Also, I’m wondering where all the people who have demanded LB have synergy with condition builds went. I remember a lot of threads complaining that it had no synergy and now that it gets it… more complaining.

And to be super, crazy, redundantly clear: they said that it would still have the ICD in the Ready Up?

There is no way in hell they are going to have a 4s Burning proc on a 1s cast auto attack without an ICD.

But of Corpse – Watch us on YouTube
My PvP Minion Build

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Posted by: Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Drarnor Kunoram.5180

You sure about that?
So it will only proc ONCE per a time you are in DeathShroud? If so, that is insanely stupid.

It only can proc once every ten seconds. if you stay in Death Shroud for 10 seconds after firing Dhuumfire, you can shoot another Dhuumfire Life blast.

And to be super, crazy, redundantly clear: they said that it would still have the ICD in the Ready Up?

Yup, they stated it would still have a 10 second cooldown.

Dragonbrand |Drarnor Kunoram: Charr Necro
http://www.twitch.tv/reverse830
I’m a Geeleiver

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Posted by: ArmageddonAsh.6430

ArmageddonAsh.6430

It’s a terrible change, won’t make anything better for anyone. Won’t change builds either won’t bring new ones out. Condition builds will still take it and have to adapt that they have been nerfed and Power builds still won’t take it because Close To Death is better.

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Posted by: Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046

It’s a terrible change, won’t make anything better for anyone. Won’t change builds either won’t bring new ones out. Condition builds will still have to take it and have to adapt that they have been nerfed and Power builds still won’t take it because Close To Death is better.

Fixed it..

54 infractions and counting because a moderator doesn’t understand a joke when he/she sees it.
E.A.D.

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Posted by: ArmageddonAsh.6430

ArmageddonAsh.6430

It’s a terrible change, won’t make anything better for anyone. Won’t change builds either won’t bring new ones out. Condition builds will still have to take it and have to adapt that they have been nerfed and Power builds still won’t take it because Close To Death is better.

Fixed it..

Yep. It just means they will be doing LESS damage than they were before so it is just another Nef to Necromancers with Minion Masters having damage reduced and the nerf to the explosion trait.

Then you get onto the Powermancers with the nerf to Crit Damage and i expect class specific nerfs to them as well.

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Posted by: Nay of the Ether.8913

Nay of the Ether.8913

Out of all of those, training of the master and the vamp changes are the ones that kittened me off. Yes changing putrid to blockable is annoying, but not gamebreaking, but I can 100% guarantee if they change training of the master, I will never waste a trait spot on it again. Also, on what planet was any vamp trait even remotely op and warranting nerfs? You can’t even notice you’re running them half the time!

It’s nonsense like this that has turned the necromancer sour to me. I can’t enjoy playing it anymore. I know these are just vague “possibilities” and I hope they change their mind about some of them before they wreck the class even farther. All of this…just to balance around one game mode, one op skill, and to- in some sick strange way- balance around another op class (warrior)

http://almunns.wix.com/elitedeathsociety
~Surrender fiend and you will get an easy death
~I could promise you the same…but it would be a lie…

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Posted by: Badmon.4503

Badmon.4503

Dhuumfire is a passive no skill trait i see. Hmmm so whats Diamond Skin then?

So Necromancer gets straight nerf as usual. Necro should just be removed from the game….. since they obviously don’t know how to balance it.

Sroy .